Sorcerer spell list

[Laserlight]

I'm deciding the nine known spells for my level 8 draconic (fire) sorcerer, and I've just realized that I could swap out lower level spells for higher. Instead of 9 spells as 3 x L1 and 2 each of L2 L3 and L4, I could potentially have 1x L2 and 4 each of L3 and L4 -- not saying that's a good idea, just that it's possible.

Lightfoot halfling, rolled STR10 CON14 DEX18 INT11 WIS14 CHA18 assuming I take the feat Resilient DEX. Second ASI is undecided--+2 to CHA or CON, or Spell Sniper, or Lucky? Skills are Arcana, Stealth, Deception, Persuasion.
Party is vengeance paladin, monk, bard, and probably an archery eldritch knight.
The campaign is almost entirely a dungeon crawl (Gardmore Abbey), and we've typically done two or three encounters per Long Rest.
I'm aware of the Warlock 2 Sorc 6 build but decided to stick with straight Sorc.

Until I had the "upgrade spells" realization, the spell list I had in mind:
Cantrips: Create Bonfire, Firebolt, Minor Illusion, Shocking Grasp, and a fifth one, probably Prestidigitation just for the lulz.
L1 (4 slots): Burning Hands, Detect Magic, Shield
L2 (3 slots): Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray
L3 (3 slots): Fireball, Haste
L4 (2 slots): Polymorph, Wall of Fire

So what mix of spells should I pick?

[MrFahrenheit]

You're nearly all fire for blasty spells. It's the most common monster resist/immunity. I'd lose scorching ray and pick up lightning bolt or banishment.

[Democratus]

This is a great and thematic list of spells. I think you should stick with the fire motif.

It's more interesting to have situations where your schtick sometimes causes problems than to break theme.

[EvilAnagram]

Honestly, this is a solid list for a fire sorcerer. I wouldn't switch out anything except maybe dropping Burning Hands for Counterspell.

[Joe the Rat]

You might want to look into Elemental Adept - boosts your (in your case) fire damage slightly, and ignores fire resistance.

You're still stuck on fire-immune. Since you are likely avoiding melee, you might swap shocking grasp for chill touch or ray of frost- there aren't many (any?) creatures that are immune to fire and cold, or fire and necrotic.

Or carry a crossbow.

[Laserlight]

You're nearly all fire for blasty spells. It's the most common monster resist/immunity. I'd lose scorching ray and pick up lightning bolt or banishment.

Good point. Much as it pains me, I might also drop cantrip Prestidigitation in favor of Ray of Frost.

[EvilAnagram]

You might want to look into Elemental Adept - boosts your (in your case) fire damage slightly, and ignores fire resistance.

You're still stuck on fire-immune. Since you are likely avoiding melee, you might swap shocking grasp for chill touch or ray of frost- there aren't many (any?) creatures that are immune to fire and cold, or fire and necrotic.

Or carry a crossbow.

Shocking Grasp is actually a good cantrip precisely because he doesn't seem to like melee. Shocking Grasp is there to extricate him from melee, as it prevents opportunity attacks.

[Laserlight]

You might want to look into Elemental Adept - boosts your (in your case) fire damage slightly, and ignores fire resistance.

You're still stuck on fire-immune. Since you are likely avoiding melee, you might swap shocking grasp for chill touch or ray of frost- there aren't many (any?) creatures that are immune to fire and cold, or fire and necrotic.

Or carry a crossbow.

Definitely avoiding melee, if at all possible. I thought about Elemental Adept for my second feat. Gardmore Abbey doesn't seem to have a "fire resistant monsters" theme, though, so I don't think I'll really need it...at least, not as much as I'll need Warcaster for the Concentration saves, or Spell Sniper for shooting into melee. Or Lucky.

[JellyPooga]

I'd tentatively agree with the points about the fire theme; kudos for sticking to the theme, but be wary of resistant/immune foes.

Perhaps switching Burning Hands for Chromatic Orb could be prudent; the sphere of many colours is nice and versatile...fire it up to get the most out of your Draconic bloodline, but you can always turn it blue or green if the burnination isn't going so hot.

As much as I want to like Pyrotechnics, in 5ed it just doesn't seem to satisfy. A 2nd level slot for a 1 round/1 minute effect doesn't seem worth the investment. Fog Cloud, cast as a 2nd level spell creates a much larger (40ft radius) obscured area that lasts a lot longer (up to an hour). Yes, Pyrotechnics doesn't require concentration, but if you're looking for a fog bank, then you can achieve the same result with much less investment. As for the blind effect, yes it's great that it's a 10ft radius...but it's a 10ft radius from the fire source and to get the most out of it, that means manipulating where that fire source is, which isn't always as easy as it might appear. Let's just say that I've found the spell too situational and/or limited in it's actual effect to really be worth the investment cost.

As an alternative to Pyrotechnics, might I suggest Enhance Ability? Thematically, I think it suits the Dragonblood bloodline with the whole "Dragons are generally better than mortals" schtick and whilst not a great combat spell, is all sorts of useful outside of it.

[Naanomi]

Get a few buff spells and focus on helping allies when you don't have blasting targets. Haste can easily be flavored as 'filling someone with the unbound energy of flame' etc

[Laserlight]

As an alternative to Pyrotechnics, might I suggest Enhance Ability? Thematically, I think it suits the Dragonblood bloodline with the whole "Dragons are generally better than mortals" schtick and whilst not a great combat spell, is all sorts of useful outside of it.

Unfortunately, with this DM, there's very little of importance happening outside of combat. And it's Concentration, which means it competes with Polymorph on the monk (I'm looking forward to saying "Monk? More like....Giant Ape!"), or twinned Haste on the monk and pally.

[Rhaegar]

You're nearly all fire for blasty spells. It's the most common monster resist/immunity. I'd lose scorching ray and pick up lightning bolt or banishment.

While fire is one of the more common resistances, I doubt it's the most common. I believe poison is the most common resist/immunity.

Though when preparing your spells for the day, you will often have an idea of what you're going to be facing, if you've been at a campaign for a while. If you're about to fight a fire cult, you don't want to go in with fire spells, as they likely relish in fire. If you don't know what you'll be facing you'll want at least 2 magic types. If you know exactly what you'll be facing, design your spell list around that.

[YCombinator]

Good point. Much as it pains me, I might also drop cantrip Prestidigitation in favor of Ray of Frost.

I love the fire theme. I'd stick with it. I agree with everyone that there is an inherent disadvantage to this but I think you can solve it with some fluff. Ask your DM if you can, for example, take a spell the does force damage but then rewrite the flavor to be a ball of fire that's so compact it hits with force. (Physicists leave me alone this is a magic world, not the one we studied in college)

You could also appeal to drop the fire keyword in favor of some other on some fire spells.

Also, you could definitely talk with the DM and see if they will tell you about monster composition. If you're in a city fighting soldiers a lot this night not be an issue. If a player in my group wanted to go all fire I would reward that role-playing choice by agreeing not to through a disproportionate amount of fire resistance in. I might throw in vulnerable creatures in for every fire resistant in stead of avoiding them just to make it dramatic in both directions.

So in all cases my suggestion is to appeal to the DM and say you're making a strong RP move that might be a big disadvantage. Can they work around it.

Also you could just embrace it.

[Laserlight]

Haste can easily be flavored as 'filling someone with the unbound energy of flame' etc

Nice! +1 Inspiration point to you.

[Specter]

Spell selection will depend on your metamagic options too. If you've got Twinned, for example, Greater Invisibility and Banishment are gold.

[Laserlight]

Spell selection will depend on your metamagic options too. If you've got Twinned, for example, Greater Invisibility and Banishment are gold.

I was thinking Twinned and Quickened.

[Specter]

I was thinking Twinned and Quickened.

Good. So, for 4 sorcery points, you can make the Paladin and the Monk attack with advantage and be attacked with disadvantage. Or make one of them invisible and yourself so dudes don't break your concentration. Pretty cool, huh?

[rhouck]

Regarding fire resistant creatures, read this thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?379165-MM-Resistances-Immunities-Vulnerabilities-and-Damage

Cliff notes: fire resistance/immunity is an over-exaggerated worry, unless your campaign fights a ton of fiends.

I'd still take Ray of Frost as a "for when that happens" cantrip.

[DracoKnight]

You're nearly all fire for blasty spells. It's the most common monster resist/immunity. I'd lose scorching ray and pick up lightning bolt or banishment.

This is actually a common misconception - poison is, in fact, the damage type that gets the most monsters resisting/immune to it. It basically only affects those with the Humanoid type.

[EvilAnagram]

This is actually a common misconception - poison is, in fact, the damage type that gets the most monsters resisting/immune to it. It basically only affects those with the Humanoid type.
And almost all beasts. And a lot of monstrosities. Also quite a few other things. I mean, 40-50 resistors out of 200 possible creatures isn't terrible.

[DracoKnight]

And almost all beasts. And a lot of monstrosities. Also quite a few other things. I mean, 40-50 resistors out of 200 possible creatures isn't terrible.

True - I forgot about the beasts and monstrosities. Well, actually there's only 4 things resistant to poison, but there are 102 monsters IMMUNE to poison :smalltongue:

EDIT: Local DMs and I made a tally of Resistances/Immunities/Vulnerabilities (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sj6fSizwL_hsKMTUBlmuHq9X7saWcbtWm7KwMjULD_c/edit?usp=sharing).

[EvilAnagram]

True - I forgot about the beasts and monstrosities. Well, actually there's only 4 things resistant to poison, but there are 102 monsters IMMUNE to poison :smalltongue:

EDIT: Local DMs and I made a tally of Resistances/Immunities/Vulnerabilities (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sj6fSizwL_hsKMTUBlmuHq9X7saWcbtWm7KwMjULD_c/edit?usp=sharing).

Makes sense. There are a lot of constructs, undead, and elementals that don't take poison. Most fiends, too.

[Laserlight]

Revised edition:

Cantrips: Create Bonfire, Firebolt, Minor Illusion, Shocking Grasp, and Prestidigitation Ray of Frost ("pulling the fire out of him").
L1 (4 slots): Burning Hands, Shield, Detect Magic
L2 (3 slots): Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray
L3 (3 slots): Fireball, Haste
L4 (2 slots): Polymorph, Wall of Fire, Greater Invisibility

Now I just need to pick my second feat, and remember to pack a lot of pipeweed...

[EvilAnagram]

Revised edition:

Cantrips: Create Bonfire, Firebolt, Minor Illusion, Shocking Grasp, and Prestidigitation Ray of Frost ("pulling the fire out of him").
L1 (4 slots): Burning Hands, Shield, Detect Magic
L2 (3 slots): Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray
L3 (3 slots): Fireball, Haste
L4 (2 slots): Polymorph, Wall of Fire, Greater Invisibility

Now I just need to pick my second feat, and remember to pack a lot of pipeweed...

Spell Sniper and Elemental Adept are probably your best bets.

[Gtdead]

If you are going to go with Wall of Fire, instead of prestidigation you could pick lightning lure.
Also i'd trade burning hands for either greater invis (treat it like a foresight against targets without blindsense or true sight), or banishment (for more coverage, you can target WIS with polymorph, CHA with banish).

Scorching ray isn't that worthwhile too imo unless your DM allows you to add CHA in every roll instead of once. You can quicken a firebolt instead. 3 lvl 2 slots mean enough points for 4 quickens.
Casting 3 scorching rays at lvl 2 deals 3 * 6d6+CHA= 75
Casting 4 quickened firebolts deals 4 * 2d10+2CHA = 76

No real point in upcasting it as lvl 3, Fireball deals 8d6+CHA (same as scorching ray), is aoe and if they save they still take half damage.
I'd trade it for counterspell or greater inv/banish

[Specter]

I can't even imagine you using Burning Hands if you have Scorching Ray and Fireball. Unless it's really important flavor-wise, drop it for... perhaps Fly or Banishment?

[djreynolds]

Fireshield and mirror image, both non-concentration spells. You need these.

[Laserlight]

If you are going to go with Wall of Fire, instead of prestidigation you could pick lightning lure.
Also i'd trade burning hands for either greater invis (treat it like a foresight against targets without blindsense or true sight), or banishment (for more coverage, you can target WIS with polymorph, CHA with banish).

Scorching ray isn't that worthwhile too imo unless your DM allows you to add CHA in every roll instead of once. You can quicken a firebolt instead. 3 lvl 2 slots mean enough points for 4 quickens.
Casting 3 scorching rays at lvl 2 deals 3 * 6d6+CHA= 75
Casting 4 quickened firebolts deals 4 * 2d10+2CHA = 76

No real point in upcasting it as lvl 3, Fireball deals 8d6+CHA (same as scorching ray), is aoe and if they save they still take half damage.
I'd trade it for counterspell or greater inv/banish

Our DM lets us use Arcana check to search, so I dropped Detect Magic in favor of Greater Invisibility.

I considered Twinned Firebolt in lieu of Scorching but hadn't thought about Quickened.

The problem with Fireball is placing a 20ft radius AoE without hitting your own people. I did it last night to get the fight started, but I wouldn't count on having the opportunity often. (Unless I can train the other players to maneuver with my AoE in mind. Which I would probably have to do by "casting it anyway", followed by "I told you to stay out of my target area").

[Laserlight]

Fireshield and mirror image, both non-concentration spells. You need these.

Fire Shield doesn't appear on the Sorc list as far as I can tell, just the Wiz list. I could probably talk my DM into it, but....it's only useful when I get hit. I want to avoid getting hit.

[Joe the Rat]

Spell Sniper and Elemental Adept are probably your best bets.
He'd mentioned that there (probably) aren't a lot of fire-resisitant baddies in the adventure, and with the grasp and frost, he won't be super-useless in those situations (though the guaranteed 2+ on every die is nice).

Snell Sniper is probably the more useful one - and if you hold off on ray of frost, you can pick that up with the feat.