Undead and Cleric in the same party

[ayvango]

How could cleric avoid turning/rebuking other party members?

[Draconium]

They can just not use their turn/rebuke attempts to actually turn/rebuke. They can use them to fuel their Divine Metamagic instead.

Or, you know, you need line of effect to the undead, so just make sure there's something between you and your ally before you turn/rebuke. Or that they're out of range.

[ayvango]

If cleric would find vulnerable target it would be better to damage directly with turning.

The problem affects wide range of creatures. Not only undead, but constructs, fire, cold and so on. And every player could obtain fire and cold subtypes easily from appropriate spells.

[Telonius]

Improved Turn Resistance (feat from Libris Mortis). It adds +4 to your HD for the purposes of turn checks. Turn Undead will affect (at most) the Cleric's HD + 4. Add a Cloak of Turn Resistance (same book, another +4) and/or the Lifebond feat (same book, another +4, designate the Cleric as your bonded person), and he can't turn you, as long as he isn't a few levels ahead of you.

[ayvango]

Cleric will also invest into feats and items that boosts his turning level. AFAIK he could boost it better than undead could boost his turning resistance.

[Psyren]

See if your DM will let you borrow the Selective Channeling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/selective-channeling---final) feat from Pathfinder. This feat lets you "poke holes" in your turning radius.

[Zanos]

Cleric will also invest into feats and items that boosts his turning level. AFAIK he could boost it better than undead could boost his turning resistance.
Considering most good cleric builds focus on ways to spend turning attempts on things other than turning, I wouldn't worry too much about an ally turning you unless he was doing it on purpose.

The maximum HD a cleric can turn at all is 2d6+Cha Mod+Cleric Level. If you are the same HD as the cleric, as long as there are 13+Cha Mod Undead closer to him than you, you'll never get turned since they're won't be enough HD to effect you. Most undead monsters have a lot of HD for their CR, so good positioning when he turns can solve the issue altogether.

[Troacctid]

Have the Cleric use the Planar Banishment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#turningUndeadVariantPlana rBanishment) variant instead of turning undead.

[Brunks]

Its a Personal spell, but Shroud of Undeath from Spell Compendium would negate 1 succesful turn attempt made against the subject.

[ayvango]

Considering most good cleric builds focus on ways to spend turning attempts on things other than turning, I wouldn't worry too much about an ally turning you unless he was doing it on purpose.
I think that cleric focused on turning checks is quite efficient: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?481605-Cleric-build-focused-on-turn-checks And he could turn not only undead but much of other things too.




The maximum HD a cleric can turn at all is 2d6+Cha Mod+Cleric Level.
Wrong. There are spells that fuels turning checks and supply them with additional HD damage.

[Zanos]

I think that cleric focused on turning checks is quite efficient: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?481605-Cleric-build-focused-on-turn-checks And he could turn not only undead but much of other things too.

Wrong. There are spells that fuels turning checks and supply them with additional HD damage.
No, that's correct. Saying a fireball does 1d6 damage per caster level(max 10d6) isn't wrong because there are feats and items that modify that damage, or remove the caster level cap. You also don't have to be hostile to people who are attempting to help you with your problem. Even if you're buffing your effective cleric level very high, the number of HD typical undead enemies have is tremendous. Even if you're turning as a 10th level cleric at level 5, a CR 4 zombie wyvern has 14 HD. If you position yourself such that you are closer to the enemies than your undead party members, they should be fine.


FWIW, the Good Lich template from Monsters of Faerun pg. 90 has immunity to the turning abilities of Good and Neutral clerics.

[Necroticplague]

The undead party member can take the Human Heritage feat if they qualify, making them a Humanoid, and thus no longer susceptible to turning.

[Ikitavi]

I have a similar question:

I am the GM, and in my universe undead oxen are used for long haul wagon pulling. There are some cultures which have limited use of undead in brute manual labor.

The player of the now level 4 cleric in the party wanted to know if she could rebuke undead without destroying them. The player and the character are both very anti-necromancer, but recognizes that it would be at least impolitic to fry the undead of some middling poor farmer. And she doesn't want to face lawsuits every time she draws her holy symbol.

This is intended to be more a flavor thing than a **** over the character thing.

I am inclined to rule that a level 4 cleric should have more capabilities, not fewer, than a level 3 cleric, so she should somehow have the OPTION of not destroying the 2 HD zombies. I have been using concentration skill checks for a number of tests like, "Maintain a poker face in responding to a distraction" "operating at full efficiency with a poisoned wound", or spellcraft for "what happens if I use this spell in an unexpected way?" I suppose I can just use Knowledge Religion to cover adding flavor to how a Turn Undead attempt works.

[ayvango]

The undead party member can take the Human Heritage feat if they qualify, making them a Humanoid, and thus no longer susceptible to turning.
The Human Heritage feat should be chosen after the character undergoes the necropolitan ritual. And I have no idea how to accomplish that. Could you suggest the route?

[ATHATH]

The undead guy could also just be a Curst- they have an immunity to turning.

Alternatively, have the undead guy pick up a template that changes his type away from Undead. Half-Golem seems nice if you want to keep the Undead flavor, if you don't mind him turning NE (a Sanctify the Wicked spell can make him any non-Evil alignment).

[ayvango]

And what about the same questions about fire/cold/air subtype and turning/rebuking such creatures?

[Troacctid]

The player of the now level 4 cleric in the party wanted to know if she could rebuke undead without destroying them. The player and the character are both very anti-necromancer, but recognizes that it would be at least impolitic to fry the undead of some middling poor farmer. And she doesn't want to face lawsuits every time she draws her holy symbol.

Well if you rebuke undead instead of turning them, then you also command them instead of destroying them.

[Ikitavi]

Whoops. I apparently didn't pay full attention to what I wrote.

My question is whether a cleric can choose to only cause undead to flee or be barred from an area rather than destroying them.

[Necroticplague]

The Human Heritage feat should be chosen after the character undergoes the necropolitan ritual. And I have no idea how to accomplish that. Could you suggest the route?

Feats always have their effects as long as you continue to qualify for them. If you have the feat pre-necropolitan, then get necropolitanized, you still have the feat, still qualify, and thus, still get the benefits.

Getting the feat post-necropolitan is a logical impossibility (you need at least level 2 to survive the process, and Human Heritage can only be taken at level 1).

[ayvango]

Feats always have their effects as long as you continue to qualify for them. If you have the feat pre-necropolitan, then get necropolitanized, you still have the feat, still qualify, and thus, still get the benefits.
Specific overrides common. Feat description itself refers to creature types and features that it has before taking the feat. And you could not retain the humanoid type during transformation.



Getting the feat post-necropolitan is a logical impossibility (you need at least level 2 to survive the process, and Human Heritage can only be taken at level 1).
Well, you could do that. But that put you in danger of hitting with hard items thrown by the master.

You could go to the 3rd level. Buy necropolitan ritual from experienced dread necromanced. Go to the 1st level. Buy DCFS as service. Take the human heritage feat on your own 1st level.