Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

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Selling your Soul at a Premium
The Warlock’s Guide to Power

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“Oh gentle Faustus, leave this damnéd art,
this magic that will charm thy soul to hell”

-The Tragical History of the Life and Death of Doctor Faustus by Christopher Marlowe

Making its first appearance in the 3.5 splatbook Complete Arcane, the Warlock makes a pact with a supernatural being in order to gain power over the magical weave. Unlike other casters who prepare spell lists each day, Warlocks gained the brand new spell Eldritch Blast and at-will invocations, offering mystic power with almost no bookkeeping. The 4e Warlock introduced a more formal Pact system and the Warlock Curse, in addition to the standard At-Will, Encounter and Daily abilities.

In Fifth Edition, the Warlock combines the concepts of previous editions, essentially maintaining the 4e design ethos of At-Will, Encounter, and Daily powers. This makes it an easy entry class for 4e veterans, though 3.P players should still recognize familiar remnants of the original.

But wait, EvilAnagram! Why would you make an optimization guide about Warlocks when you only need the first two levels.

Smack

Quiet, Optimizer Strawman, you’re hysterical. The Warlock is a short rest caster and extremely competent so long as short rests are available. Its primary means of damage, Eldritch Blast, is a cantrip, which reduces the reliance on spell slots, and Invocations reduce that reliance even further. You can easily cast two spells per short rest and still stay effective in combat.

Remember that this is an optimization guide. It is designed to allow readers to understand the strengths and advantages inherent to playing a Warlock. That said, if you have a fun idea that isn't terribly optimized, don't be afraid to put fun ahead of numbers. It's a game, after all.

Color Scheme

This is freaking amazing! It provides many options, or will do one thing extremely well.
This is really good, but not quite phenomenal.
This is good. It will regularly be useful, though it won't provide many tactical choices.
Bad. It will be extremely rare that it's useful at all.


Occasionally very useful, but limited in scope or applicability.

With the exception of Red abilities, most abilities will find some use and can be a lot of fun. Even situational abilities can find excellent use depending on the game. They're just not going to be the workhorse on your list.

Table of Contents:

Corrupting Influences
Know thy Soul
Let’s Make a Deal
The Demon of Men
Mix-and-Match Witchcraft

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Corrupting Influences

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Ability Scores
Strength: Usually, this is a dump stat. If you want to wield a really big weapon, this is a great stat to boost. Glaives are common for cheeselocks.
Dexterity: Do you like AC? I like AC. Also great for finesse Blade Pacts.
Constitution: If you like hit points and passing concentration saves, then boy have I got an ability for you!
Intelligence: This can boost your Arcana. This can also get dumped.
Wisdom: A very good ability for skills and saves, but do wise people sell their souls?
Charisma: You know how you like using your magic powers? The ones you sold your soul for? This is for that.


Class Features
Hit Dice: Less than you want, but better than some.
Armor Proficiency: It’s better than nothing. Not, like, a lot better. But better.
Weapon Proficiency: There are some pretty nice simple weapons, and it includes sickles for moody Emolocks.
Saving Throws: WIS is a super important save, and having proficiency here means you don’t have to worry about pumping your WIS, easing the MAD. CHA is pretty nice, too.
Skills: Intimidation and Deception can be incredibly helpful. Hell, Deception is basically a cantrip called “Alter Reality” when used well. Insight is pretty useful, and knowledge skills will certainly come in handy.
Tools: If you had spent your time learning how to use useful tools, you probably wouldn’t have had to sell your soul, now would you?
Pact Magic: If you’re a 3.P refugee, this feature might mess with you a bit, but 4e veterans should recognize this as At-Will and Encounter spell casting. You have awesome cantrips, and very limited spell slots that get more powerful as you level up and regenerate on both short and long rests. You won’t know as many spells as a full caster, but you’ll eventually be casting fifth level slots all night long.
Eldritch Invocations: Were you worried that your Warlock would lack flexibility? Well don’t you sweat it because Warlocks get a slew of extra abilities from no-slot spells to added damage and ritual casting.
Pact Boon: We’ll cover the boons in detail below. There’s just too much going on to be succinct.
Mystic Arcanum: Basically high level casting, except you’re stuck at the base level of the spell and you only get one less sixth and seventh level spell compared to the full casters.
Eldritch Master: Ignore the chief drawback of your Pact Magic once a day.


Pact Boons
Pact of the Chain: Familiars are nice, and yours is the nicest by far. You get better options, and those options can attack. The Invocations aren’t bad, either.
Pact of the Blade: You get a magical weapon that can never be taken away from you, and you always get to be proficient with it. If you find a magic weapon, you can meditate on it and be proficient with it, too. At the cost of Invocations, you can be pretty freaking nasty in melee, but you will suffer from fairly weak defenses. At later levels, you can deal a whopping +14 damage per attack using Hex.
Pact of the Tome: Three extra cantrips are very nice. This provides access to Eldritch Blast, every SCAG cantrip, with room left over for Minor Illusion and Prestidigitation. More importantly it’s the only path to ritual casting for the Warlock outside of a feat.

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Know Thy Soul

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Anyone can sell their soul. They’re super common, so you’ll probably have to haggle if you want a good price for yours. Charisma is obviously the most valuable stat, followed by Constitution and Dexterity. Strength is important if you want a heavy melee weapon. Otherwise, keep your eyes open for spells that don’t cost slots and other features that complement

Player's Handbook
Hill Dwarf: The basic Dwarf package is solid. Wis isn’t important, though.
Mountain Dwarf: The basic Dwarf package is solid, but the +2 to STR and CON, coupled with Medium Armor, can make quite the powerful Bladelock
High Elf: Dexterity is nice, as is the extra cantrip. However, Int is not terribly important. The Trance, Perception, and Fey Ancestry are extremely nice, though.
Wood Elf: About the same as a High Elf.
Drow: Stat boosts and bonus spells and perception, oh my! Grab Poison Spray or Frostbite to make up for your Sunlight Sensitivity.
Lightfoot Halfling: Halfling features are really nice, as is the perfect stat distribution.
Stout Halfling: Again, Halfling features are great, but this guy only has the secondary stat boosts.
Human: Plus one to every stat is pretty solid.
Variant Human: Everyone likes options, and this gives you the option of a feat.
Dragonborn: Pretty solid for a STR-based Bladelock.
Forest Gnome: Gnome Cunning is pretty sweet, and Dexterity is nice, as are the advantages on magic saves. Int is basically useless, though. It’s not a bad choice.
Rock Gnome: See above, but sub CON for DEX and add tinkering.
Half-Elf: Well, you get CHA. And any other two stats you want. And some skill proficiency. And darkvision. It’s… pretty damn sweet.
Half-Orc: It doesn’t offer much for a Warlock, although it does make a Str-based Bladelock that’s just a bit more survivable.
Tiefling: Boosting your primary casting stat is great, as are the extra spells and resistance. It’s pretty fantastic. SCAG options are perfectly fine, too, except for Feral.

Dungeon Master's Guide
Aasimar: The spells aren't great, but you get resistances and Charisma.
Eladrin: Perfectly okay. Dexterity and teleportation are nice, but INT is unnecessary.


Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide
Duergar: A decent Bladelock… indoors. If you can frequently find advantage to cancel out that Sunlight Sensitivity, it's not bad.
Deep Gnome: Basically like a Rock Gnome.
Ghostwise Halfling: A bit of a slide down from Stout.


Volo's Guide to Monsters
Aasimar: A +2 boost to your primary casting stat is nice. Boosting your primary casting stat on top of a healing ability, two resistances, and the daily ability to channel the divine power of heaven to smite your enemies is really freaking good.
Firbolg: Leave it for the Druids.
Goliath: You can build a Goliath Bladelock, and it won’t be completely terrible. The defensive feature is really helpful.
Kenku: Kenku don't really add anything that make Warlocks better at Warlocking, but they add a lot that will make a Warlock better at other things.
Lizardfolk: If you want to go with a STR-based Bladelock, this isn't terrible, though you're not getting much with the stat boosts.
Tabaxi: CHA, DEX, and decent mobility features. There's nothing about it that's particularly noteworthy, but all the features are consistently useful.
Triton: This is the perfect stat block for a Bladelock, with extra control spells and cold resistance to boot. I like it.

Volo's Monstrous Races
Bugbear: Like a Goliath, it's okay for a Bladelock, but it's otherwise not very good at all.
Goblin: Both secondaries, extra damage every day, and a bonus action disengage. This is a surprisingly good pairing.
Hobgoblin: The only thing this offers is Saving Face and some CON, and that's just not enough.
Kobold: It's not terrible, especially if you have melee allies to constantly give you advantage.
Orc: It's just a really poor fit, on account of how nothing it offers does anything for you.
Yuan-Ti Pureblood: The magic resistance and Charisma both offer a lot, and the extra spells push it into the upper tiers.


Elemental Evil
Aarakocra: There’s no Charisma boost, but the early flight isn’t bad.
Genasi: All the Genasi options provide a CON boost and some CON spells. This is generally a pretty good thing.
Air Genasi: Both secondaries, plus Levitate. Not bad.
Earth Genasi: Okay if you really want to have a STR weapon, but it just doesn’t offer much.
Fire Genasi: It’s like a worse version of a Tiefling.
Water Genasi: The acid resistance is nice, but Dragonborn get that while still having +2 CHA.


Plane Shift Zendikar
Holy crap, it's a Magic/D&D crossover. A lot of the races in this supplement don't fit the races in traditional D&D settings that well, so be sure to talk to your DM before utilizing them.

Human: About what you'd expect.
Kor: Ghostwise Halfling drops psychic ribbon for a climb speed.
Merfolk: I have a little saying: "If it boosts your primary casting stat and gives you extra magic, it's sky-blue." All Merfolk are sky-blue.
Vampire: The Charisma boost is nice, but the other features are not terribly important for a Warlock.
Goblin: A boost to Constitution and two resistances is going to be nice for any class.
Elf: Tajura at least get the Charisma boost, but Juraga and Mul Daya just aren't Warlock material.


Unearthed Arcana supplements have provided a few new options:

Eberron

Changeling: CHA and DEX with some Skill action and a free Alter Self.
Shifters: Shifters tend to provide purely physical boosts. Some of these boosts can be helpful, and DEX is a secondary stat, but they tend to lag.

Beasthide Shifter: Not terrible. You get a boost to both CON and DEX, at least.
Cliffwalk Shifter: No.
Longstride: No.
Longtooth Shifter: No.
Razorclaw Shifter: Not terrible if you’re a bladelock. Otherwise, No.
Wildhunt Shifter: No.
Warforged: You can build a pretty decent bladelock with this guy.

Waterborne
Minotaur: I suppose you could make a Bladelock here, but it’s not the easiest path.

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Let’s Make a Deal

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Your Otherworldly Patron will define quite a bit about your character. Patrons provide extra spells, defensive abilities, ribbons, and more! Plus, it will cue you in to how nervous you should be around the Paladin.

Remember that unlike other expanded lists, the Warlock feature Expanded Spell List does not automatically give you the spell. Instead, they’re just added to the list of spells from which you can choose.

Pact of the Archfey
Swear fealty to the Queen of Air and Darkness. It worked out alright for Dresden. Kind of. This pact provides solid options for an illusionist controller, not to mention some solid defenses. It also provides a lot of no-ability spells and abilities that might appeal to a Bladelock.
Expanded Spell List: A solid spattering of support and control.
Fey Presence: A short rest control and charm spell that costs no slot? Well, that’s simply delightful, and a great compliment to your casting.
Misty Escape: A short rest Misty Step/Invisibility on a reaction? Also delightful!
Beguiling Defenses: Immunity to charms is lovely, though your DM might not target you with charms much after you get this, but it will occasionally be phenomenal.
Dark Delerium: A fairly powerful illusion on the short rest, one that could provide quite a lot of utility, not to mention battlefield control. It only targets one character, but it doesn’t use up a slot.
1st Level spells
Faerie Fire: Advantage is awesome, and this spell provides advantage. (Concentration)
Sleep: Starts out awesome! You can end encounters quickly and without saves! Five levels later it's much less awesome because it doesn't scale well.
2nd Level spells
Calm Emotions: You can end a battle or recover from a debuff with the same spell! Very nice. (Concentration)
Phantasmal Force: You're only limited by your imagination, and you can create utility effects or cause damage and distract enemies. It's a great spell, but it doesn't scale at all, and you have very good reasons to like spells that scale. (Concentration)
3rd Level spells
Blink: Random teleportation is fun, and it's useful when enemies have you surrounded. You essentially cannot be attacked when it succeeds. That said, a 50% chance of nothing happening is not exactly great when you have two slots to work with, and this uses the same slot as Misty Step.
Plant Growth: Battlefield control mixed with some utility.
4th Level spells
Dominate Beast: The effect is really freaking awesome, but its pool of targets is tiny. That said, controlling the enemy knight's horse sounds like a lot of fun. (Concentration)
Greater Invisibility: Completely freaking awesome for any Warlock. (Concentration)
5th Level spells
Dominate Person: It's limited to humanoids, but it's also awesome control. (Concentration)
Seeming: A mass disguise is pretty damn fun, and it's useful in a ton of circumstances.

Pact of the Fiend
When has selling your soul to Satan ever gone wrong? Not here, that’s for sure. If you want to be a blaster, this is easily the best pact to take from the original three. It's also great for Bladelocks who need to bump up their survivability.
Expanded Spell List: Blasty spells with a little control to boot. Very nice.
Dark One’s Blessing: Scaling temp HP that any blaster caster would love!
Dark One’s Own Luck: A d10 at the perfect moment is always helpful.
Fiendish Resilience: Pick a damage type. You resist that. It’s a solid ability, especially if you can anticipate a certain damage type popping up.
Hurl Through Hell: Literally hurl your enemy through hell. Unholy crap, this thing packs some crazy damage.

1st Level spells
Burning Hands: Fire.
Command: Control.
2nd Level spells
Blindness/Deafness: Control.
Scorching Ray: Fire!
3rd Level spells
Fireball: FIRE!
Stinking Cloud: Control! (Concentration)
4th Level spells
Fire Shield: Firey protection!
Wall of Fire: Firey control! (Concentration)
5th Level spells
Flame Strike: Holy fire!
Hallow: Utility that has nothing to do with fire.

Pact of the Great Old One
As my mother always said, “The Old Ones were, the Old Ones are, and the Old Ones shall be. Not in the spaces we know, but between them, they walk serene and primal, undimensioned and to us unseen.” Silly mom. Always babbling incoherently as blood filled her eyes. The GOO-lock provides solid control, and a ton of lovely ribbons. It's also worth noting that it is possibly less useful for those looking to take the Pact of the Blade, due to its focus on save spells.
Expanded Spell List: This spell list provides fantastic control, including some of my very favorite spells. Note my bias here, but this is awesome.
Awakened Mind: A ribbon ability that can occasionally help you out of a tough situation. Still, it’s quite situational.
Entropic Ward: A solid defense that can become a solid offense.
Thought Shield: Psychic damage isn’t a very common type, but it’s still nice. The other feature is extremely situational.
Create Thrall: It’s situational, but extremely potent. If you gain access to a sleeping king, be prepared to reap rewards.

1st Level spells
Dissonant Whispers: Control with some rarely-resisted damage. Awesome.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter: I'm probably biased in favor of this spell, but I think it's completely awesome in combat, and there's some very fun utility to boot. (Concentration)
2nd Level spells
Detect Thoughts: Awesome utility right here, though it won't always be terribly useful. (Concentration)
Phantasmal Force: A great illusion that can provide ongoing damage, and it takes an action to end it. Still, it doesn't scale at all. (Concentration)
3rd Level spells
Clairvoyance: It provides decent spying utility. (Concentration)
Sending: This spell is Advanced Carrier Pigeon. It's not bad.
4th Level spells
Dominate Beast: Great effect! Tiny pool of targets. (Concentration)
Evard's Black Tentacles: A restraining AoE that deals damage and takes an action to get out of. Very nice. (Concentration)
5th Level spells
Dominate Person: You'll be dealing with a lot of humanoids, and this can help you accomplish many things. (Concentration)
Telekinesis: Provides some decent utility and excellent battlefield control. Unfortunately, it allows a lot of saves. (Concentration)

Pact of the Undying
Does selling your soul to a lich sound fun? I suppose it would to some. This pact provides survivability, the ability to keep kicking when others might not, and plenty of survivability. From SCAG.
Expanded Spell List: If you believe in the strength of the basic Warlock spell list, then boy is this the pact for you! It has okay debuffs, okay buffs, and plenty of ways to almost heal your allies. It’s not terrible, but I wouldn’t call it powerful.
Among the Dead: Spare the Dying isn’t bad, but the undead business is as situational as it gets. If you know you’re going to be facing a lot of undead, this is a great. If your campaign isn’t focusing on the undead, then it might help out once or twice.
Defy Death: This is just a solid way to avoid dying, and it makes Spare the Dying a more attractive cantrip. Only once per long rest, though.
Undying Nature: It’s a ribbon. It will occasionally be quite useful, and otherwise it will quite not useful.
Indestructible Life: A bonus action heal of 15-28 HP (depending on your level) every short rest. It’s a damn fine ability.

1st Level spells
False Life: You can cast this with an Invocation. Sure, with a higher slot it's better, but it's not that much better.
Ray of Sickness: The damage isn't bad, and it has a minor rider.
2nd Level spells
Blindness/Deafness: Solid utility for different circumstances.
Silence: Decent utility, combined with anti-magic. (Concentration)
3rd Level spells
Feign Death: You might use this once.
Speak with Dead: Occasionally annoy an underprepared DM, or help a prepared DM tell the story.
4th Level spells
Aura of Life: Waking the unconscious is nice, but most of the buffs are only for fighting undead. (Concentration)
Death Ward: A bit better than the Orc feature.
5th Level spells
Contagion: A solid grouping of debuffs with vaguely written conditions for going off. The book seems to say immediately, but the developers think it's obviously only after the saves are failed.
Legend Lore: Give your DM some time to drop expositive rhymes.

Pact of the Celestial
For those of you that want to pretend to be Jesus or feel uncomfortable being edgy. It includes a ton of options for both damage and control, and your buddies will only probably make fun of you for picking a lame archetype.
Expanded Spell List: There's a good mix of healing, damage, and control in this list. Definitely worth looking at.
Bonus Cantrips: It's perfectly inoffensive. Barely even a feature, really. Sacred Flame and Light are both just... not interesting.
Holy Light: This is a pretty sweet healing ability. It's completely added on, and it makes a party's life easier.
Radiant Soul: Resist a rarely encountered damage type, and deal extra damage once or twice a turn! It's not terribly exciting
Celestial Resilience: Woo! Temp HP! Temp HP for everyone!
Searing Vengeance: This is one of those amazing abilities that works really well. I like that it brings you back from unconsciousness, deals damage, and blinds everyone you hate. That's a really good bit.

1st Level spells
Cure Wounds: You know, it's a workhorse, this guy. Of course, you don't have a ton of spell slots, but they do regenerate.
Guiding Bolt: I don't know what Yorrin thinks of it, but I've never been sad to see this in action.
2nd Level spells
Flaming Sphere: A little control and a little damage. The ability to ram it as a bonus action saves it from being terrible.
Lesser Restoration: It's situational, but I would say that its breadth of usefulness moves it from purple to black.
3rd Level spells
Daylight: It's one of those spells you realize your party member has, and you think, "Why?" Then he says he'll kill vampires with it, and you just stare blankly while Lagwagon plays in your head. Why is Lagwagon in your head? You haven't listened to Lagwagon since 2011. You should listen to Lagwagon more. They hold up. Anyways, this spell is lame, and it doesn't kill vampires.
Revivify: You will rarely need it, but when you do, boy do you you need it.
4th Level spells
Guardian of Faith: A little bit of control, and a guaranteed amount of damage.
Wall of Fire: It's a bit of control and a good bit of damage, which is all you can ask at this level.
5th Level spells
Flame Strike: The mix of fire and radiant damage, combined with the huge AoE, makes it delightful.
Greater Restoration: It heals some very nasty effects. I would say that every party should have it on someone.

Pact of the Hexblade
There is finally a patron designed to beef up a melee Warlock, and it's super goth. Attacking enemies using your Charisma as the attack stat is an simple, but effective way to help a Warlock in melee.
Expanded Spell List: This is a pretty solid list. It doesn't start out great, but it gets better and better as you level up.
Hexblade's Curse: You deal more damage against the target, and you're rewarded for killing it! It's a Pavlovian feature
Hex Warrior: This is what we call a "core feature" that provides the foundation for a build. Charisma-based attacks and medium armor makes a pretty solid melee Warlock.
Accursed Specter: This is a difficult one because this feature, while creepy as hell, has nothing to do with anything your character is supposed to do. Also, while it starts out reasonably powerful, I can't imagine it being terribly useful at later levels. This is just bonkers. Why is this suddenly a summoning class? It hasn't had anything to do with summoning until now! Why is this a thing? Why not just give it some mobility or a bonus action to play with? What is happening!? Am I going crazy!? What is this!?
Armor of Hexes: They're really leaning into this naming convention. Anyways, a fifty/fifty shot to turn a hit on you into a miss is nice.
Master of Hexes: Okay, the names are getting a little silly now. Anyways, this is fine. It feels like something that should have been part of the original feature, but whatever. Why are you summoning specters!?

1st Level spells
Shield: It's a great way to avoid a nasty hit. Of course, it doesn't scale, and you have a limited number of slots per short rest.
Wrathful Smite: As TrueAzrael points out, the enemy has to use an action to get out of the frightened condition, which is nice. That said, it doesn't scale at all. (Concentration)
2nd Level spells
Blur: It's a nice buff, but you can impose disadvantage while getting more benefits. (Concentration)
Branding Smite: I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's silly to make a spell that reveals invisible creatures dependent on hitting the creature. It's not terrible, but it might not be worth the slot. (Concentration)
3rd Level spells
Blink: This is a crazy spell. Its benefits are only hampered by its randomness, which can be a major limiter for someone with so few slots. However, your strong defenses mitigate the risk.
Elemental Weapon: It boosts both attack and damage, and you can tailor it to your enemy's weaknesses. (Concentration)
4th Level spells
Phantasmal Killer: It deals okay damage and frightens a single target. That's pretty good, and it's a solid way to disable a nasty bruiser. (Concentration)
Staggering Smite: It deals solid damage and slaps solid debuffs on top. I guess that sounds okay. (Concentration)
5th Level spells
Banishing Smite: You deal solid damage, and you can banish the target as per Banishment. I cannot think of a reason for a Hexblade not to want this. (Concentration)
Cone of Cold: One of the most damaging and largest AoE spells in the game. I can see why you might want it. Hell, it nearly caused a TPK for my group.

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The Demon of Men

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Most casters just have one casting feature, but Warlocks have three. Aren't you special. Pact Magic slots regenerate every short rest, Mystic Arcanum spells are once per long rest, and Invocations do their own thing. Let’s dive into it.

EE=Elemental Evil
SCAG=Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide

Pact Magic
Blade Ward: You know what works just as well and doesn't cost one of your cantrip slots? A defensive action. The only time this is useful is when you have Armor of Agathys up and want to get hit without taking damage.
Booming Blade (SCAG): A solid Bladelock ability that provides extra damage and a bit of control. The damage isn't quite as good as two attacks with the Charisma damage bonus unless the secondary goes off.
Chill Touch: Good damage with two solid riders for different situations. Plus, every Warlock likes upping the creepy factor.
Create Bonfire (EE/XGtE): The only fire cantrip available without feats or multiclassing. It's a very, very tiny AoE, but it's a pretty decent one, and you can use it to block chokepoints.
Eldritch Blast: A really solid damaging cantrip that you can customize to your liking with invocations. It's as close to gold as anything can get.
Friends: It's a good way to make friends, and then quickly make enemies. It's a widely applicable utility cantrip for social situations. Completely abusable if you have Mask of Many Faces.
Frostbite (EE/XGtE): Deal some damage on a save with a decent rider.
Green-Flame Blade (SCAG): Again, the secondary damage makes it about equal with your normal Bladelock damage, if a bit more spread out.
Infestation (XGtE): Gross. Also, not terribly effective. I guess it can work well with AoE spells like Spike Growth and Wall of X. So, black if your party is god at working together? I guess that's kind of hopeful of me. If you can't work well together, it's definitely not black.
Lightning Lure (SCAG): It's nice if you prefer to be in melee, but less nice otherwise.
Mage Hand: Situational, but useful.
Magic Stone (EE/XGtE): It's really nice to be able to prepare a ranged attack for your melee allies when necessary.
Minor Illusion: It's situational, but it's useful for so many situations.
Poison Spray: Poor range and great damage, but it's off of a save. Call me prejudiced, but I don't really like save cantrips that much.
Prestidigitation: It might not be useful, but it's fun.
Sword Burst (SCAG): A small burst with a small amount of damage. It could be useful.
Thunderclap (EE/XGtE): A small burst that's a lot like Sword Burst, but loud.
Toll the Dead (XGtE): Usually less effective than Eldritch Blast if you have any invocations to beef it up, but it's a solid way to twist the knife, and WIS saves are a fun target.
True Strike: Mathematically worse than simply attacking twice.



Armor of Agathys: A solid defensive ability for non-fiendlocks.
Arms of Hadar: It's Shocking Grasp on steroids. Creepy, tentacled steroids. Great for escaping melee while still dealing damage.
Cause Fear (XGtE): Frightened is a great condition to inflict on people. Also, I love that the text says you "awaken the sense of mortality" in the target. It's like you turned on some Kansas in they're brain. (Concentration)
Charm Person: Charm spells are great, though the target learning about the spell when the effects wear off is not exactly ideal.
Comprehend Languages: This is occasionally an extremely useful spell.
Expeditious Retreat: Mobility can occasionally make a big difference, and this is certainly mobile. (Concentration)
Hellish Rebuke: Solid damage as a reaction. I like it better as the Tiefling's racial spell, but it's still quite good.
Hex: A decent damage boost to your normal attacks and cantrips, mixed with a nice little debuff. (Concentration)
Illusory Script: Situational spell is situational.
Protection from Evil and Good: A solid buff when you know you're going to be facing certain creature types. (Concentration)
Unseen Servant: A solid situational spell that Tomelocks can ritual cast.
Witch Bolt: There are some builds that might make use of this, but not many. On the bright side, you can extend the longevity of a spell slot with this. (Concentration)



Cloud of Daggers: The damage isn't that bad, and with Repelling Blast you can keep pushing the baddies back into the daggers, and if you push something into the cloud it takes the damage twice. Plus, you can still block passages with it. (Concentration)
Crown of Madness: The order of operations renders this spell completely useless. (Concentration)
Darkness: It's amazing if you have Devil's Sight, but it's still great otherwise. (Concentration)
Earthbind (EE/XGtE): Grounding airborne enemies can be a lot of use to your allies. (Concentration)
Enthrall: Distract people for your stealthy allies. It's not terrible utility.
Hold Person: Paralyzing is a sweet effect. (Concentration)
Invisibility: It's a solid buff for stealth and combat alike. (Concentration)
Mind Spike (XGtE): The damage is okay, but not great. The rider is also okay, but not great. Seeing the invisible is nice, but you'd have to see the creature to target it to begin with, which isn't great. (Concentration)
Mirror Image: An excellent defensive buff that doesn't require concentration to maintain.
Misty Step: A simple bonus action teleport to slide out of a rough situation. You're using one of only two slots for a good deal of your existence, though.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Casting Darkness gets disadvantage more reliably. (Concentration)
Shadow Blade (XGtE): The sword has some cheese potential, but as Contramundi pointed out, it does not work with the sword-based invocations. (Concentration)
Shatter: Okay AoE damage with solid okay bonus against inorganic creatures and objects.
Spider Climb: Solid mobility. (Concentration)
Suggestion: One of the more powerful charms. There's very little you can't convince someone to do with this spell. Again, weigh out the likelyhood that you will need that slot for another reason. (Concentration)



Counterspell: This is how you ruin your DM's plans on a moment-to-moment basis.
Dispel Magic: Ending any effect that's causing you consternation is definitely a good thing.
Enemies Abound (XGtE): Let's see, it's flavorful, it turns an enemy against its allies, and it cues off of the weakest save for most big bruisers. This spell is my favorite thing. My very favorite thing. Others will point out that Hypnotic Pattern and Fear disrupt multiple enemies, and this should be blue. They forget that watching a troll smash its wizard boss is hilarious.
Fear: Completely change the makeup of a battlefield. (Concentration)
Fly: It's a fantastic way to address numerous situations, such as how can I be higher? How can I be faster? How can I stay out of that big guy's reach? How can I not fall into acid? (Concentration)
Gaseous Form: A decent spell that can come in handy in getting you out of many situations. (Concentration)
Hunger of Hadar: Darkness gets a bit of damage. It's a great spell, but it doesn't scale at all. Which is weird, because it's a Warlock-only spell, and all Pact Magic slots scale up as you level, so it should definitely scale.
Hypnotic Pattern: A great way to take several enemies out of combat without much fuss. (Concentration)
Magic Circle: It's a really good spell against certain types of creatures. It does nothing against others.
Major Image: Create a giant illusion - or an illusion of a giant. It's a pretty intense upgrade to the previous illusions, and it's only limited by what you can imagine. (Concentration)
Remove Curse: Usually, I would let the Cleric prepare this the day after someone gets cursed. In the absence of this option, it's a pretty good spell.
Summon Lesser Demons (XGtE): This is what we call a Good Idea™. Note: this is a terrible idea. The worst part about it is the way the creatures you summon could attack you and not your enemies. Great for DMs, though.
Thunder Step (XGtE): It's a pretty good, "Eff this, I'm outie," spell. It's not very friendly to your companions, but eff them, you're outie.
Tongues: It can bypass quite a few options, but it's better for ritual casters.
Vampiric Touch: The damage is relatively small, but healing yourself while you damage an enemy is pretty damn nice.



Banishment: You know the nastiest character in the battle? Take him out of the battle for ten rounds. (Concentration)
Blight: It only stays slightly ahead of Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast unless you're targeting plants, though if you're facing a Treant it's ungodly, which is probably right up your unholy alley. Also, that is now my favorite euphemism for Warlocks.
Charm Monster (XGtE): I really like this spell, in theory. It makes it easier to talk giants and dragons out of murdering you. On the other hand, dragons have solid WIS saves, and Suggestion works just as well. On the other other hand, a Warlock uses the same slot to cast either this or Suggestion. In conclusion, sure?
Dimension Door: The best mid-distance teleport you can take, but once again it's a big cost.
Elemental Bane (EE/XGtE): It's phenomenal if you took the Fiend Pact and have Scorching Ray, but otherwise it depends a bit on your allies' abilities. (Concentration)
Hallucinatory Terrain: You're really limited by little other than your imagination, and it's fantastic. Plus, no concentration!
Shadow of Moil (XGtE): You're basically invisible thanks to shadows that attack anything that attack you. Also, you resist radiant for some reason. It's an excellent spell for a Warlock that likes to get into the thick of it. (Concentration)
Sickening Radiance (XGtE): A large area of continuous radiant damage is great, but showing invisible foes and inflicting Exhaustion makes it amazing. (Concentration)
Summon Greater Demon (XGtE): What a Great Idea™! This one starts out better and has potentially worse consequences. I cannot recommend it in good conscience, although I heartily recommend it in bad conscience.



Contact Other Plane: This is definitely on the list of spells I would leave to someone else. You can contact the creature with whom you sealed your pact! ...Or you take 21 points of damage and go insane for a while. I suppose a Tomelock who's really clingy with the devil with whom he sealed a pact.
Danse Macabre (XGtE): A somewhat situational, but quite potent summon spell that will make your inner goth squee with delight. Basically, be a necromancer from Warcraft III. For the kids, Warcraft III is the basis for Blizzard's cash machine. (Concentration)
Dream: This is about as situational as spells get, and it's also about as awesome as spells get.
Enervation (XGtE): THis is a damn Warlocky spell, what with you slowly squeezing the life out of your enemy. It's basically Witch Bolt: But Good this Time. (Concentration)
Far Step (XGtE): Teleport a bunch as bonus actions. I mean, yeah. That's pretty great. I don't know of anyone who would be angry about having complete battlefield maneuverability. (Concentration)
Hold Monster: Paralyze anything you want! Then stab it! Hurray!
Infernal Calling (XGtE): From the makers of Good Idea™ and Great Idea™, take a look at Best Idea™! It's like the other two, but the creature is more powerful, it's not necessarily compelled to do anything, and it will almost certainly try to undermine your goals with its cruel intellect. Hurray! (Concentration)
Negative Energy Flood (XGtE): Kill living, heal undead. It's a Necromancer's dream! And everyone else's nightmare. Honestly, the damage isn't worth it if you're not out to heal undead.
Scrying: It's a very nice spying spell. It's probably worth dropping Clairvoyance and taking this when you can.
Synaptic Static (XGtE): A mass debuff is always nice, and this one stacks with disadvantage. And it might be the only mass debuff that doesn't use concentration.
Wall of Light (XGtE): The damage is whatever, but the conditions it inflicts are awesome! Combined, I like it. (Concentration)



Eldritch Invocations

Agonizing Blast: Eldritch Blast hits harder, and since it's on a hit, it can be up to +20 damage in a single turn.
Armor of Shadows: Potentially your best source of AC.
Ascendant Step: At-will Levitate, with no spell slot cost. You'll find that this is the first in a wonderful pattern.
Aspect of the Moon (XGtE): You might use it sometimes? I mean, some people think you can cheese the hell out of this forever, but your mileage may vary. Pact of the Tome only
Beast Speech: A very situational spell at with no slot cost.
Beguiling Influence: Personally, I love both of these skills, but they're competing against a lot of options here.
Bewitching Whispers: Well, you can use one of your limited invocations to occasionally cast a spell that is so-so if everything goes well. And it still takes a slot. I would strongly recommend against this.
Book of Ancient Secrets: Ritual casting! You can cast so many spells without losing a precious slot! This is awesome! Pact of the Tome only.
Chains of Carceri: Hold Monster with no cost? Awesome! Only three types of creatures? Less awesome. Pact of the Chain only.
Cloak of Flies (XGtE): Warlocks are gross, man. Obviously, bonus damage and ntimidation advantage is fun, but gross.
Devil's Sight: You don't just see through darkness, you see through Darkness. It can be extremely useful if you're willing to spend a slot on Darkness, it provides you with advantage and everyone else with disadvantage against you.
Dreadful Word: Cast Confusion with a Warlock spell slot. I'm not sure about this. Do you want to be able to cast a low-level spell at no cost, or do you want to be able to cast a high-level spell at normal cost? Personally, I prefer the former, especially when the spell isn't terribly consistent.
Eldritch Sight: At-will Detect Magic sounds great to me.
Eldritch Smite (XGtE): Warlocks love that word, don't they? Everything has to be eldritch. They probably have eldritch chairs that they sit on while watching eldritch television on eldritch computers because eldritch TVs are outdated. Eldritchly. Anyways, it's pretty sweet. Your slots regenerate on a short rest, and it beefs up a blade-pact warlock's melee. Pact of the Blade only
Eldritch Spear: I find that range is frequently a minor issue, but this certainly does give you some exceptional range.
Eyes of the Runekeeper: Situational utility is always nice.
Fiendish Vigor: Start every combat with a handful of temp HP.
Gaze of Two Minds: It provides decent utility for information gathering and keeping in touch with your scout. It would be nicer if it wasn't only willing creatures.
Ghostly Gaze (XGtE): X-ray vision! Sweet! Also situational. But sweet!
Gift of the Depths (XGtE): I don't know why Water Breathing needs more restrictions than Detect Magic. That's all I have to say about it.
Gift of the Ever-Living Ones (XGtE): Maximizing hit dice on a short rest isn't that bad. It improves your ability to be healed in general, but it does nothing for you if you're trying to heal others. Pact of the Chain only
Grasp of Hadar (XGtE): With Repelling Blast, it's some solid control.
Improved Pact Weapon (XGtE): I mean, it does exactly what it says on the label. Ranged options, +1 to attacks and damage, and a weapon-focus. Not bad at all. Pact of the Blade only
Lance of Lethargy (XGtE): In case you don't want to take Ray of Frost. Or want to knock something back and reduce its speed.
Lifedrinker: I would say that this is the Blademaster's favorite Invocation by far. Dealing extra damage is exactly the effect you want on your weapons. Blade Pact only.
Maddening Hex (XGtE): Oh. So, you can just cause damage. No attack. No save. Just, bang. Damage. Huh. That's cool.
Mask of Many Faces: Free Disguise Self. Very nice.
Master of Myriad Forms: Upgrade your Mask of Many Faces with free Alter Self. Might as well take it when you can.
Minions of Chaos: Cast Conjure Elementals with a Warlock spell slot. It's a very good spell, but is it worth taking up an invocation? Yes. yes, it is.
Mire the Mind: Cast Slow once a day, using a slot. It's a solid spell, but it might not be worth the Invocation.
Misty Visions: At-will Silent Image is pretty damn fun. It's excellent utility.
One with Shadows: Be invisible when it's dark. You can't move, but it's still quite useful when scouting.
Otherworldly Leap: Cast Jump for free. It's... such a disappointing spell thanks to the Sage Advice ruling that your movement limits the distance you can jump. Not bad for cities, though.
Relentless Hex (XGtE): It's a pretty sweet teleport for a melee Warlock. I mean, you had Eldritch Blast already, but it's still nice.
Repelling Blast: Add some control to your most damaging cantrip! Hells yes.
Sculptor of Flesh: Polymorph is pretty damn decent. It's worth the Invocation for sure.
Shroud of Shadow (XGtE): So, Invisibility is pretty sweet. It's pretty late to get it, but so what? It's still sweet.
Sign of Ill Omen: Bestow Curse is a pretty damned useful spell on which to spend an Invocation.
Thief of Five Fates: It's a bit ridiculous that a First Level spell is a once/day invocation that still uses a slot. That said, it does scale, and it's a decent debuff.
Thirsting Blade: You should probably take either this, or one of the Blade cantrips at some point. Pact of the Blade only.
Tomb of Levistus (XGtE): I love it, if for nothing else than because there are going to be a lot of Barbarians chopping their Warlocks out of the ice. Anyways, 50-200 temp HP is nice.
Trickster's Escape (XGtE): It's occasionally quite useful, and frequently not useful.
Visions of Distant Realms: It's a decent spying spell you can cast at-will, and a long range scout as well.
Voice of the Chain Master: Potentially extremely powerful scouting and spying. Pact of the Chain only.
Whisperer of the Grave: At-will Speak with Dead can occasionally be quite useful, and it's creepy as hell if that's your thing.
Witch Sight: Basically permanent True Sight against creatures. It's a fine way to ruin your DM's carefully crafted story, plus it helps deal with invisible enemies.


Mystic Arcanum
Remember, you only get one per level.

Arcane Gate: Are you thinking with portals? Because you're going to be asked this every time you use this spell. (Concentration)
Circle of Death: It's the same damage Fireball dealt at level three, and it's less damage than Fireball deals when you get access to this spell. That said, it's a nice wide radius.
Conjure Fey: Summon a high-CR fey creature. It's not terrible by a long shot. (Concentration)
Create Undead: Three ghouls can be useful, but they can easily turn on you depending on how fastidious you are about recasting the spell.
Eyebite: Three solid debuffs for one little spell, and since you only have one choice per level that's pretty damn sweet. (Concentration)
Flesh to Stone: One failure and it's restrained for at least three turns. Four failures and it's a statue. It's not a terrible effect by a long shot. (Concentration)
Investiture of Flame (EE/XGtE): It's a wonderful spell for Mystic Arcanum because you get multiple benefits and can continuously make spell attacks. Plus, your enemies will think twice about getting close to you. (Concentration)
Investiture of Ice (EE/XGtE): As above, but with ice and movement reduction instead of fire and fire. (Concentration)
Investiture of Stone (EE/XGtE): It's mostly for people who want to wade into melee and stab things without taking damage. This could easily include you. If you're not melee, stay away. (Concentration)
Investiture of Wind (EE/XGtE): You remember Fly, up in Pact Magic? Well, this is Fly's big brother, Fly Around and Kill Everyone. Again, the multiple benefits make for a solid pick for your only sixth level spell. (Concentration)
Mass Suggestion: If you're going to use a charm spell, it might as well be one you can use to turn a whole crowd against an annoying noble, or finish an entire encounter.
Mental Prison (XGtE): Horrific damage and some light control is pretty damn nice. (Concentration)
Scatter (XGtE): I mean, completely reshuffling the battlefield is pretty dang nice. It's a bit situational for my taste, as an Arcanum pick.
Soul Cage (XGtE): Well, this is creepy. I mean, you do you, but dang. Creepy. And not terribly potent. The advantage is nice, though. Not a bad spell, but not terrible.
True Seeing: Super situational, especially for an Arcanum pick.



Crown of Stars (XGtE): I mean, if you want to deal 4d12 damage on a bonus action, I guess you might want to take it.
Etherealness: It's a solid mobility spell provided that you're willing to dedicate your 1-8 hours purely to exploration.
Finger of Death: 60 damage and a zombie sounds great to me!
Forcecage: A fantastic way to lock down one or more characters.
Plane Shift: I mean, if you want to go to another plane, this is the spell to take. If you don't want to go to another plane, I advise against taking this.
Power Word Pain (XGtE): Basically, it's Inflict Arthritis, and it's quite debilitating.



Demiplane: This is a spell for people who had a treehouse when they were little and want one now.
Dominate Monster: You know what's better than paralyzing a monster? Using that monster to kill other monsters. (Concentration)
Feeblemind: This is a disturbing debuff. Like, super disturbing. It might be less moral than making a pact with a demon in the first place.
Glibness: Pass every conversational check you want. More importantly, pass every counterspell and dispel magic you want.
Maddening Darkness (XGtE): Super darkness in a huge area with 8d8 damage is cool. More importantly, it's super thematic for all the creepy weirdos that love playing warlocks. Like us! (Concentration)
Power Word Stun: It's a great way to drop something big while you deal with something small.



Astral Projection: Some campaigns will absolutely need this spell at some point, and most campaigns won't.
Foresight: Touch something and make it a demigod for eight hours. Impressive is an understatement.
Imprisonment: This is the spell you use to imprison the unspeakable abomination who gives you power while you continue to siphon power off of it.
Power Word Kill: If you're level 17, something with less than 100 HP probably won't survive the round, but this will still work.
Psychic Scream (XGtE): It's less damaging than Meteor Swarm, but also less prone to friendly fire. Oh, and you stun everything that fails the DC. And it's an INT save, so it's rarely high. Daaaaaaaaang.
True Polymorph: Turn into anything you want. Because magic. (Concentration)

[EvilAnagram]

Selling your Soul at a Premium
Mix and Match Witchcraft

http://i.imgur.com/DHcRj7i.jpg
Image by Paul Bielaczyc


Barbarian : You know how you’re a caster, but Barbarian rages prevent you from casting? That’s a problem.
Bard: You know what’s great? Bards. They have full casting and expertise, and they share your casting ability!
Cleric: It’s unlikely that someone who sells their soul for power has enough Wisdom to be a Cleric, but if you do then there are enough ancillary benefits for some domains to make it worth it.
Druid: I wouldn’t ever combine these two.
Fighter: Bladelocking is easier when you mix in som Fightering.
Monk: I like Monks. Monks don’t go well with Warlocks. Grabbing monk weapons for one level might be worth it.
Paladin: Smite with a short rest resource!
Ranger: Super MAD, but it has a fighting style and the third level Hunter feature. Only good for a small dip, and only if you've rolled massive stats.
Rogue: As always, Sneak Attack and Expertise are awesome, and every caster wants to Disengage on a bonus action.
Sorcerer: Bard is for utility spells, but Sorcerer is for metamagic. Sweet, sweet metamagic. It also has some solid spells from which to choose, with minimal bookkeeping, not to mention Draconic AC to free up an Invocation.
Wizard: Don't cast spells with your dump stat.




Alert: If you have something against going first, this is terrible.
Athlete: This is a perfectly okay feat with perfectly okay benefits.
Actor: Turn lying into an art.
Charger: I don’t care if you have a magic glaive, just use a spell if the bad guy is far away.
Crossbow Expert: If you want your ranged spell attacks to be useful in melee, you can take this. You can also take Spell Sniper and grab Shocking Grasp. Both are reasonable, though Spell Sniper provides multiple benefits compared to the one you get from this.
Defensive Duelist: Bladelocks could easily make use of this.
Dual Wielder: Nope. You only get one pact weapon.
Dungeon Delver: If the party doesn’t have a Rogue, and your DEX is decent, you might get use out of this.
Durable: It’s okay. Good for when you have a DM like me, who keeps you needing healing.
Elemental Adept: Yeah, that’s a pretty solid feat, especially for the Fiend Pact.
Grappler: I would say no. In fact, I do say no. No.
Great Weapon Master: I would advise a Bladelock to use a finesse weapon, but if you want to go STR then this is okay. Of course, it works fine for Hexblades.
Healer: Not a bad little feat if your WIS doesn’t suck.
Heavily Armored: It costs two feats, but it’s handy if your DEX is terrible.
Heavy Armor Master: Hexblades can combo this with Armor of Agathys, but no one else should put 3 ASIs into getting this.
Inspiring Leader: You are charismatic.
Keen Mind: Situational, but you can abuse it, and it’s only one ability point.
Lightly Armored: You already have the benefit.
Linguist: Less important for GOOlocks, but knowing a language can save your ass.
Lucky: Always worth it.
Mage Slayer: A Bladelock might use this, but it’s a better idea to improve your primary capabilities.
Magic Initiate: Not a terrible way to spend an ASI. Any Warlock can benefit from an extra spell every day.
Martial Adept: There is not a good reason to take this as a Warlock.
Medium Armor Master: A Hexblade or dwarf could get use out of it. Otherwise, I would stay away from it.
Mobile: It’s a good feat for keeping yourself from getting mired in combat.
Moderately Armored: It’s a solid way to boost your AC, especially if you want to go STR.
Mounted Combatant: If you’re frequently mounted, sure.
Observant: Yeah, this is a solid utility feat.
Polearm Master: STR Bladelocks and Hexblades can use this. Other Warlocks stay away.
Resilient: There are several reasons to take this feat. Mostly, however, it’s the Constitution save.
Ritual Caster: If you don’t go Tome, this is a solid way to get Ritual Casting.
Savage Attacker: This is not a terrible feat for Bladelocks. Rerolling one attack isn’t bad, and you can pick which result you want. Other Warlocks stay away.
Sentinel: Bladelocks might have fun with this. Other Warlocks stay away.
Sharpshooter: You don’t want this. You want Spell Sniper.
Shield Master: Not for you.
Skilled: If you want skills, this is a good feat for you.
Skulker: This has some benefits that might possibly be useful, but you can replicate them with Invocations.
Spell Sniper: Solid blasting abilities are always welcome for a Warlock.
Tavern Brawler: This is unlikely to ever be useful for any Warlock. Some have discussed using it to weaponize your ability to summon a pact weapon, but if your DM allows this then you should really be pushing for more ridiculous things in your game than this.
Tough: Hit points are good.
War Caster: Possibly necessary for Bladelocks, but still useful for everyone else.
Weapon Master: If you want to fight with weapons, just go with the Pact of the Blade and have proficiency with whatever you want.


Bountiful Luck: Giving someone a free reroll on a critical failure without using any resources is unreasonably awesome.
Dragon Fear: If you're at all familiar with me, you'll know I like frightening enemies.
Dragon Hide: Getting a boost to your AC for half a feat is good all by itself.
Drow High Magic: I will never turn down extra spells. Never. Do you hear me!? Never!
Dwarven Fortitude: This is a pretty solid boost to your resilience.
Elven Accuracy: This is goooooood. Really good. Like, really, really good. Dang. It's so good. Why is it so good? It should be less good.
Fade Away: Turning invisible as a reaction with no spell slot is damn nice.
Fey Teleportation: A half-feat that provides a situational ability with a great slotless teleportation spell. Yay!
Flames of Phlegethos: I'm a bit torn on Phlegm Fire. The protection is... minor. Really minor. But rerolling 1s is pretty nice. It's not bad for half a feat, so if you want to boost your CHA by 1 you might as well.
Infernal Constitution: Resisting three kinds of damage and getting advantage on poison saves is nice. Also getting a point in CON is great.
Orcish Fury: I wonder if Fjord will take this? It's okay. Not particularly good for most Warlocks, but worth the half feat for a Bladelock.
Prodigy: Four situational abilities make a blue. That's just science.
Second Chance: I like mulligans, especially when you're forcing them on others. At the very least, you can negate 20s.
Squat Nimbleness: This is basically an "I don't want to be grappled," feat, which is fine. Being grappled can be debilitating, so it might be worth it.
Wood Elf Magic: If you happen to be a Wood Elf Warlock who really wants Pass Without Trace, then fine. I don't know why you have opted to follow this singular path, but this is the way to go.


Feel free to comment, criticize, and ridicule to your heart's delight.

[Saggo]

Have to say I like your style and layout, it's pretty easy and entertaining to read through.

[EvilAnagram]

Have to say I like your style and layout, it's pretty easy and entertaining to read through.

Thank you! I feel like a lot of people forget that layout is important for getting your message across, and I try to put effort into mine. I'll stop myself from going on about editing, since this is the place for my other nerdy interests.

And I'm glad I can at least entertain, if not inform.

[Saggo]

Thank you! I feel like a lot of people forget that layout is important for getting your message across, and I try to put effort into mine. I'll stop myself from going on about editing, since this is the place for my other nerdy interests.
I've designed websites in past jobs, so I sympathize.


And I'm glad I can at least entertain, if not inform.
Oh it's informative. I like how you convey usefulness without a glut of math or hyperbole.

More on topic, I'm curious why do you rate Chain higher than Tome?

[DracoKnight]

Just a quick thing: You have the Undying Patron labeled as the Undying Light (which is UA). Other than that, this looks great, and I always find your guides useful :smallbiggrin:

[Giant2005]

I think Moderately Armored should be rated higher than it is. Unless you are dipping something that already gives you those proficiencies, it will give you at least an extra +2 AC regardless if you are Str or Dex based. +2 AC is pretty huge and is at least comparable to +2 hp/level from Tough (but considering the many extra HP gained thoughout the day via temporary hit points, the Warlock is never lacking in that regard and typically has more equivalent hp than even a Barbarian - with that in mind, Tough is of very limited use in the first place).

[tsotate]

I think I would rate Crossbow Expert purple. In a small party where you can't always avoid melee range, being able to still Eldritch Blast without disadvantage can be quite handy.

[EvilAnagram]

More on topic, I'm curious why do you rate Chain higher than Tome?
I tried to rate the features based purely on the features themselves, not the invocations associated with them. I made sure to mention ritual casting was sky-blue, but the basic feature isn't quite as useful as the Chain familiar is by himself.

[treecko]

Looks good so far, can't wait for your take on the spells. I'm playing a changling fey warlock, pact of the chain 5/mastermind rogue 3 right now in an assassination game. Got any suggestions on spells/invocations? Stealth, mobility, trickery, and the like are a premium, although I do want some damage.




But wait, EvilAnagram! Why would you make an optimization guide about Warlocks when you only need the first two levels.


:)

[EvilAnagram]

I think I would rate Crossbow Expert purple. In a small party where you can't always avoid melee range, being able to still Eldritch Blast without disadvantage can be quite handy.
If that's the concern, taking Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate and grabbing Shocking Grasp is a better bet since you'll be able to extricate yourself from melee, and you'll get other solid benefits to boot.


I think Moderately Armored should be rated higher than it is. Unless you are dipping something that already gives you those proficiencies, it will give you at least an extra +2 AC regardless if you are Str or Dex based. +2 AC is pretty huge and is at least comparable to +2 hp/level from Tough (but considering the many extra HP gained thoughout the day via temporary hit points, the Warlock is never lacking in that regard and typically has more equivalent hp than even a Barbarian - with that in mind, Tough is of very limited use in the first place).

Moderately Armored competes with Armor of Shadows for every Warlock but Strength based Bladelocks. A ranged caster can easily start with 15-16 AC with AoS, which is completely sufficient for a ranged caster at any level. A Bladelock who maxes Dex also has no need for Moderately Armored unless he really wants a shield, and then he'll have trouble casting. Moderately Armored is primarily for non-Mountain Dwarf Str Bladelocks and ranged Warlocks that let their Dex lag.


Just a quick thing: You have the Undying Patron labeled as the Undying Light (which is UA). Other than that, this looks great, and I always find your guides useful :smallbiggrin:

Fixed, thanks!


Looks good so far, can't wait for your take on the spells. I'm playing a changling fey warlock, pact of the chain 5/mastermind rogue 3 right now in an assassination game. Got any suggestions on spells/invocations? Stealth, mobility, trickery, and the like are a premium, although I do want some damage.
Off the top of my head, pair Darkness with Devil's Sight.

[Belac93]

I love this guide. Warlocks are my favourite class, but there aren't enough good guides for them. This fixes that.

Looks good so far, can't wait for your take on the spells. I'm playing a changling fey warlock, pact of the chain 5/mastermind rogue 3 right now in an assassination game. Got any suggestions on spells/invocations? Stealth, mobility, trickery, and the like are a premium, although I do want some damage.

Don't forget hex, and while you're not using it, remember to give your allies (especially other rogues) advantage on attack rolls.

[DracoKnight]

Fixed, thanks!

You're welcome :smallbiggrin: Speaking of, though, are you going to include the Undying Light patron? I know it's UA, but a lot of groups (mine included) like playing using the UA - and you do have the UA races listed for optimization :smallsmile:

[Giant2005]

Moderately Armored competes with Armor of Shadows for every Warlock but Strength based Bladelocks. A ranged caster can easily start with 15-16 AC with AoS, which is completely sufficient for a ranged caster at any level. A Bladelock who maxes Dex also has no need for Moderately Armored unless he really wants a shield, and then he'll have trouble casting. Moderately Armored is primarily for non-Mountain Dwarf Str Bladelocks and ranged Warlocks that let their Dex lag.

But it doesn't compete. It brings 2+ AC to the guy with Armor of Shadows too (and ranged casters have no trouble casting with a shield, due to not needing to fill the other hand with a weapon).

People on these forums seem to have a strange habit of over-valuing DPR and under-valuing AC.
People rave about the virtues of Agonizing Blast, yet it tends to raise your damage by a lower margin than the margin that Moderately Armored would lower your incoming damage by. Moderately Armored is objectively superior to AB, yet it would be a fortunate day for it to even receive a tenth of the credit.

Take a simple level 5 Warlock vs a Duergar (enlarged) situation, in both scenarios, the Warlocks have Fiendish Vigor and an obsession with doing little more than spamming Eldritch Blast. In one of them, the Warlock has Agonizing Blast, Armor of Shadows (we will give him 16 AC like you proposed), and 18 Cha, in the other he has neither invocation, and only 16 Cha, but instead has Moderately Armored.

The guy with AB will inflict 11.95 DPR, killing the Duergar in 3 rounds. The Duergar inflicts 5.4 DPR against the Warlock, inflicting a total of 16.2 over the course of 3 rounds. 8 of those points are absorbed by False Life, resulting in the Warlock taking a total of 8.2 damage.
The guy with Moderately Armored will inflict 6.6 DPR, killing the Duergar in 4 rounds. The Duergar inflicts 3.75 DPR against the Warlock, inflicting a total of 15 over the course of 4 rounds. 8 of those points are absorbed by False Life, resulting in the Warlock taking a total of 7 damage.

The guy with Moderately Armored walked away with 1.2 more hit points than the guy without, and managed to do so with less resources (he has 2 Invocations to choose, while the other used all of his; and he can even get away with 2 less points of Dex). Increasing your AC is very powerful, and Moderately Armored gives a significant AC bonus to any single-class warlock, whether they are Dex-based or not.

[treecko]

Off the top of my head, pair Darkness with Devil's Sight.

How to make both your DM and party to hate you

[Tanarii]

Might be worth noting Mountain Dwarf making a good Str based Bladelock. Medium Armor, +2 Str, and +2 Con is combo. One of the class builds that can take good advantage of both the armor proficiency and the strength bonus that M dwarves get. IMO it's probably Blue for Bladelocks.

[Gastronomie]

How to make both your DM and party to hate youI think you're forgetting that moving out of reach of an enemy creature doesn't provoke Opprotunity Attacks if the enemy can't see you (a Warlock covered in magical darkness can get out of an enemy's reach without the risk). You can attack an enemy with advantage, then use your movement to move away so that your friends don't get disadvantage. Darkness is 15 ft. radius, so it should be very possible. Combine with Polearm Master to make it even easier to back away and allow your friends to actually see the enemy.

It makes the DM hate you even more, but at least the party wouldn't hate you anymore.

[Saggo]

I tried to rate the features based purely on the features themselves, not the invocations associated with them. I made sure to mention ritual casting was sky-blue, but the basic feature isn't quite as useful as the Chain familiar is by himself.

I did notice the ritual casting sky blue. I would have rated Tome higher because of the cantrips, since you're not limited to one list and it makes them Cha based. It allows you to do cheesy things like a Shillelagh+BB/GFB combo (which I think only Cleric and Druid can pull off and they need Mage Initiate), as well as the ritual invocation potentially netting you Find Familiar (albeit the base version). Tome is ripe for customization.

But it is comparing against Chain features, which literally no one else gets, so maybe my case isn't that strong.

[SharkForce]

on multiclassing: monk multiclasses well with warlock. just... you want lots of monk levels and only a couple of warlock levels for a handful of spells and invocations :P also, you've got sorcerers backwards. warlock dips are helpful for blaster sorcerers. sorcerer dips are for warlocks that want metamagic (which is all of them, if they're not insane) more than they want their higher level abilities (which brings the amount rather lower than "all" with that qualifier). in any event, it can be very useful for more than just blasters; a 3-level sorcerer dip gets you a bunch more cantrips (frees you up to spend more on utility), access to some fairly handy spells (web comes to mind as being particularly appealing if you want to diversify your control a bit), a tiny bit more resources you can burn on a particularly tough fight (or you can just use them if you don't want to burn a level 5 slot on hex, also), and of course, most importantly, metamagic, aka the only reason to go sorcerer in the first place.

but, just as with the sorcerer itself, there's more than two good options in metamagic for a warlock. you can make a case for almost any metamagic on a warlock (it is important to remember that metamagic can be used on any spell you cast, not just on spells you cast with slots, so you can combine them with invocations too - there are probably times where you can accomplish more with a subtle silent image than you could with silent image alone, for example. though twin is oddly less valuable than usual since your pact magic will eventually be impossible to use with only 3 sorcerer levels).

on feats: gotta agree with those mentioning the value of moderately armoured. it's a half-feat, so you get +1 to an attribute (meaning you can start with only a 13 in dex, or even off an odd con attribute, or prepare it for when you take resilient con later). it isn't as good as 20 dex + mage armour, but then again, if there was a feat for +1 con or dex and and an extra invocation that also let you not have to invest in dex any more, wouldn't that be a pretty good feat? if more AC is something you would like to have (and i wouldn't say it is particularly rare to have that desire), moderately armoured is an excellent feat for a warlock

on spells: you don't appear to be fully addressing the patron spells in the patron section, so it might be good to have a section on the patron spells in the spell section, particularly since as you mentioned they aren't automatically known so people will need to make a decision on whether they choose them or not.

[Giant2005]

I think you're forgetting that moving out of reach of an enemy creature doesn't provoke Opprotunity Attacks if the enemy can't see you (a Warlock covered in magical darkness can get out of an enemy's reach without the risk). You can attack an enemy with advantage, then use your movement to move away so that your friends don't get disadvantage. Darkness is 15 ft. radius, so it should be very possible. Combine with Polearm Master to make it even easier to back away and allow your friends to actually see the enemy.

It makes the DM hate you even more, but at least the party wouldn't hate you anymore.

I can vouch for the DM hate.
I do disagree with the rest though, not because anything you said was wrong, but because there isn't really any need for it. Your friends attack with disadvantage for being blind, but they also attack with advantage for attacking a blind target. It comes out a wash with no advantage nor disadvantage applied - your friends don't really have any reason to hate you in the first place unless they would have ordinarily been attacking with advnatage. Conversely if they would have been attacking with disadvantage (or the enemies attacking with advantage), your friends would absolutely love you for the spell.

[EvilAnagram]

You're welcome :smallbiggrin: Speaking of, though, are you going to include the Undying Light patron? I know it's UA, but a lot of groups (mine included) like playing using the UA - and you do have the UA races listed for optimization :smallsmile:

Yes, I will be including UA material.


Might be worth noting Mountain Dwarf making a good Str based Bladelock. Medium Armor, +2 Str, and +2 Con is combo. One of the class builds that can take good advantage of both the armor proficiency and the strength bonus that M dwarves get. IMO it's probably Blue for Bladelocks.

Yeah, I thought the same thing, but forgot to change it before posting. It's updated now, thanks for spotting it.


snip

Can you be a little more specific? Which armors are you using in this calculation? Is there a shield? The best I think would be available at that level is Scale Mail, and that would give a max 18 AC with a shield, which is 2 AC (not 2+) above Armor of Shadows, but without pumping Dex a bit can provide only 16 AC with the shield, which can interfere with your casting. And at higher levels, a maxed Dex can give you 18 AC with AoS, while the feat you spent on Moderately Armored can only beat it by one measly AC. For Dex-heavy characters, it has diminishing returns.

Don't get me wrong, Moderately Armored is solid, which is why I gave it a solid rating. It is not, however, a massive improvement over your other options.

As for undervaluing defenses, I tend to play my casters in such a way as to minimize the amount of time I spend getting attacked, which is a great way to minimize damage taken while you increase your control and damage options. It's a good idea to pump your AC, but it's not necessarily the most important thing to focus on.


I did notice the ritual casting sky blue. I would have rated Tome higher because of the cantrips, since you're not limited to one list and it makes them Cha based. It allows you to do cheesy things like a Shillelagh+BB/GFB combo (which I think only Cleric and Druid can pull off and they need Mage Initiate), as well as the ritual invocation potentially netting you Find Familiar (albeit the base version). Tome is ripe for customization.

But it is comparing against Chain features, which literally no one else gets, so maybe my case isn't that strong.

These are some good points to think on.


on multiclassing:
Good points for Sorcerer. I have clarified why they are awesome. I'm not changing the Monk because I'm focusing on Warlock builds, not Warlock dips.


on feats:
I like Moderately Armored. I rated it as quite good. I just don't think it blows any other AC boosts out of the water.


on spells

I will be discussing all patron spells. I'm not sure where I'll put that, but I will absolutely be doing that.

[Giant2005]

Can you be a little more specific? Which armors are you using in this calculation? Is there a shield?
Half Plate, 14 Dex, and a Shield.

The best I think would be available at that level is Scale Mail, and that would give a max 18 AC with a shield, which is 2 AC (not 2+) above Armor of Shadows, but without pumping Dex a bit can provide only 16 AC with the shield, which can interfere with your casting.
The 2+ I referred to was due to 2 being the minimum, but the difference can increase further by use of magic shields - it could eventually extend all the way to +5.
As for the potential of a Shield interfering with casting, there is none unless you are using a weapon too. It isn't a factor.

And at higher levels, a maxed Dex can give you 18 AC with AoS, while the feat you spent on Moderately Armored can only beat it by one measly AC. For Dex-heavy characters, it has diminishing returns.

It beats it by 2 AC as I have said a few times already. You are treating AoS and Moderately Armored as mutually exclusive when they are not. Someone with Moderately Armored can get the same 20 Dex as someone without it. The AC limit with Moderately Armored is 13 (AoS) + 5 (Dex) + 2 (Shield) = 20, and I am using the term "limit" inappropriately due to the fact that it could reach up to 3 points higher if that shield was enchanted.

[Oramac]

Have to say I like your style and layout, it's pretty easy and entertaining to read through.

I agree. Thematically I have no interest at all in the Warlock, but it was still a fun guide to read through. And I learned a thing or two as well.

[SharkForce]

using a shield and weapon doesn't even interfere with casting. you can just put it away as your free object interaction (obviously, it *does* interfere with your free object interaction, and any potential attacks you'd make after casting the spell but before next round though). then take it back out next round.

[tieren]

I'm really interested in the arcanum suggestions. It seems like such a big decision and between only being available once a day and no upcasting, I just get confused on what will be the most useful.

[EvilAnagram]

Half Plate, 14 Dex, and a Shield.
I don't think I've ever seen a fifth level character with half plate, nor do I think I ever will.


The 2+ I referred to was due to 2 being the minimum, but the difference can increase further by use of magic shields - it could eventually extend all the way to +5.
As for the potential of a Shield interfering with casting, there is none unless you are using a weapon too. It isn't a factor.
Using an arcane implement also interferes if you want to cast spells that require no material component.



It beats it by 2 AC as I have said a few times already. You are treating AoS and Moderately Armored as mutually exclusive when they are not. Someone with Moderately Armored can get the same 20 Dex as someone without it. The AC limit with Moderately Armored is 13 (AoS) + 5 (Dex) + 2 (Shield) = 20, and I am using the term "limit" inappropriately due to the fact that it could reach up to 3 points higher if that shield was enchanted.
Good point on the their not being exclusive, and magic items are definitely worth considering, but I still don't see the AC difference as tremendously important unless you are frequently on the front lines, and I doubt that +x shields are terribly common. I'll play around with some builds before I change anything.


using a shield and weapon doesn't even interfere with casting. you can just put it away as your free object interaction (obviously, it *does* interfere with your free object interaction, and any potential attacks you'd make after casting the spell but before next round though). then take it back out next round.
The primary way it interferes is with your reactions, be they spells or opportunity attacks.

[Oramac]

I don't think I've ever seen a fifth level character with half plate, nor do I think I ever will.

My Tempest Sorcerer is 7th level with half-plate and a shield. There was a set of half-plate made out of mushrooms in one of the Out of the Abyss modules (can't remember which one). It was supposed to be for the druid, but he didn't want it, so I grabbed it.

[EvilAnagram]

I played with some builds, and I like Moderately Armored more now that I've really looked at it. It's blue.

[SharkForce]

warlocks by default don't really get much in the way of reactions, afaict.

(unless polearm master, of course, but then they're using a two handed weapon and can cast by just letting go for a moment... though that does decrease the value of shield proficiency for sure).

anyways, for a significant portion of all warlocks (where investing max dex and an invocation is expensive) moderately armoured is by far the better choice.

[Tanarii]

My Tempest Sorcerer is 7th level with half-plate and a shield. There was a set of half-plate made out of mushrooms in one of the Out of the Abyss modules (can't remember which one). It was supposed to be for the druid, but he didn't want it, so I grabbed it.The DMG treasure guidelines have a 5th level character with maybe 500gp of rewards. It's possible they *might* have come across big enough hordes, with a small enough party, to be able to afford Half-Plate. But unlikely. A 7th level one could potentially have found a level 5+ treasure hoard and have enough to afford it. 5th level is a break point for stepping up to play with the big-boys, and the various rules assumptions change accordingly.

Modules/Adventure Paths have a tendency to break the guidelines in all sorts of ways btw. In all editions, not just 5e.

[Giant2005]

I played with some builds, and I like Moderately Armored more now that I've really looked at it. It's blue.

Top man. People might like your layout, but to me that right there shows the true value of your guides. The fact that you are flexible means that the guides are useful to more than just yourself. A lot of guides fail in that respect.

[Oramac]

Modules/Adventure Paths have a tendency to break the guidelines in all sorts of ways btw. In all editions, not just 5e.

Makes sense. I just wanted to point out that it's possible. Though to be fair, it is quite unlikely sub 5th level.

[tsotate]

If that's the concern, taking Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate and grabbing Shocking Grasp is a better bet since you'll be able to extricate yourself from melee, and you'll get other solid benefits to boot.
You'll be able to extricate yourself from melee, assuming only one melee opponent who for some reason doesn't pursue (so that you have the same problem next round).

[CrackedChair]

I love it, I love it, I love it.

Thanks for the guide! I'll keep checking back for more!

[EvilAnagram]

Top man. People might like your layout, but to me that right there shows the true value of your guides. The fact that you are flexible means that the guides are useful to more than just yourself. A lot of guides fail in that respect.
Ha! Thanks. I've noticed that a lot of guides are about delivering the author's opinion as fact, which doesn't appeal to me. I prefer to have a conversation and let the guide reflect that conversation. Besides, I'm frequently wrong, so I might as well let other people make me look smarter.


You'll be able to extricate yourself from melee, assuming only one melee opponent who for some reason doesn't pursue (so that you have the same problem next round).
If they pursue, Shocking Grasp does not lose its viability, and you still have the extra Spell Sniper benefits.

More importantly, so long as you can remove yourself from the immediate danger, your melee allies should be able to step in, or at the very least you should be able to reposition yourself more advantageously.

[Gignere]

Not sure why Tome isn't sky blue like chain is. If you think having a suped up familiar is enough for sky blue, than Tome gives you a familiar that is at least 80% as effective as chain while giving the warlock a ton more versatility. Sure the Tome familiar can't attack but even for the chain familiar the help action typically results in more DPR than attacking itself.

[SharkForce]

Not sure why Tome isn't sky blue like chain is. If you think having a suped up familiar is enough for sky blue, than Tome gives you a familiar that is at least 80% as effective as chain while giving the warlock a ton more versatility. Sure the Tome familiar can't attack but even for the chain familiar the help action typically results in more DPR than attacking itself.

as he already explained, that comes from an invocation, not the pact boon.

the tome pact itself gives you more cantrips. which is nice. but not amazing.

[Gignere]

as he already explained, that comes from an invocation, not the pact boon.

the tome pact itself gives you more cantrips. which is nice. but not amazing.

It also can potentially get you all of the rituals in the game and considering how few spells per short rest warlocks get that is huge versatility added.

[Giant2005]

It also can potentially get you all of the rituals in the game and considering how few spells per short rest warlocks get that is huge versatility added.

As he said, that comes from the Invocation, not the Pact.
Don't worry, I am sure the Invocation will be the bluest of blues when he gets around to doing them.

[Xetheral]

May I recommend that Blade Ward be changed to purple? True, usually it's worse than just using dodge, but for Warlocks it has great synergy with Armor of Agathys and (to a lesser extent) Hellish Rebuke.

[Markoff Chainey]

Hi! I like your guides and warlock is my favorite class. Thanks for that guide!

3 things strike me as little odd..

- why do you rate Resilient (Con) lower than warcaster? IMO as a non-bladelock (= most) warlocks, you are not troubled with a free hand requirement and a CON save is better than warcaster on higher levels to keep concentration. Add to that the requirement to have max cha, good dex and good con, the +1 is a godsend for most races that would end up with an uneven ability score anyways.

- create thrall seems to me one of the most powerful abilities in the whole game. (depending on how the dm interprets it to a high degree..) but far from situational, because it is a free high-level sidekick at worst.

- Race: Changeling - you write that the ability is a "free disguise self". that's how my table houserules it now after I played one. -And that is still amazing, yet redundant due to the invocation. If you read the Shapechanger ability as written, though, it says "polymorph" and that means this ability is even an extended alter-self because it should allow eg. the use of natural weapons from a minotaur and other racial abilities.. while disguise self is a mere illusion that can be dispelled with a single skill check.

[EvilAnagram]

why do you rate Resilient (Con) lower than warcaster? IMO as a non-bladelock (= most) warlocks, you are not troubled with a free hand requirement and a CON save is better than warcaster on higher levels to keep concentration. Add to that the requirement to have max cha, good dex and good con, the +1 is a godsend for most races that would end up with an uneven ability score anyways.
Resilient is great, but its give one big benefit. Warcaster has three really good benefits, two of which are useful for every Warlock, and one of which makes a whole archetype much better. It's not always going to be the feat of choice, but it's always going to be a more versatile feat with greater potential.


create thrall seems to me one of the most powerful abilities in the whole game. (depending on how the dm interprets it to a high degree..) but far from situational, because it is a free high-level sidekick at worst.
The only mechanical effect it provides is giving you a long-lasting charm effect without using any resources. That means advantage on Charisma checks against one person, whom you must charm while totally incapacitated.


Race: Changeling - you write that the ability is a "free disguise self". that's how my table houserules it now after I played one. -And that is still amazing, yet redundant due to the invocation. If you read the Shapechanger ability as written, though, it says "polymorph" and that means this ability is even an extended alter-self because it should allow eg. the use of natural weapons from a minotaur and other racial abilities.. while disguise self is a mere illusion that can be dispelled with a single skill check.
Good point.


May I recommend that Blade Ward be changed to purple? True, usually it's worse than just using dodge, but for Warlocks it has great synergy with Armor of Agathys and (to a lesser extent) Hellish Rebuke.

This is a good point. I hadn't considered this.

[MrStabby]

I like it, but I have one layout issue.

I think it would be useful to separate out the ratings for each pact from the ratings for each patron.

For example Fiend and Fey Patrons (only just realised the full benefits recently) are great for blade pacts but old ones a bit less so.

With that in mind, it might be worth making a not on some of the Fey pact spells re bladelocks.

Bladelocks want a high attack stat as a main feature and like a bit more con (and dex if it isn't their attack stat). This means that Cha is lower than it otherwise would be (at least in the early game). Fey pact gives a load of good spells that work well with a melee combatant AND that don't use Cha. Greater invisibility, farie fire, blink...

On the multi-classing I disagree on Monk. A one level dip for martial arts lets you be dex focussed and use a polearm if that's your thing. It has a role where it is pretty solid (also, some may prefer the saves).

[Giant2005]

- create thrall seems to me one of the most powerful abilities in the whole game. (depending on how the dm interprets it to a high degree..) but far from situational, because it is a free high-level sidekick at worst.

I doubt there are many DMs out there that would be lenient enough to make the ability as powerful as your proposed worse case scenario. The ability isn't mind control - all it does is give you advantage on your social rolls against that person. Although having advantage on a class with high Charisma certainly has its uses (although even that is fairly limited due to you getting Foresight 3 levels later - advantage on everyone on everything is obviously far superior to advantage on one type of roll against a single person).

[EvilAnagram]

I like it, but I have one layout issue.

I think it would be useful to separate out the ratings for each pact from the ratings for each patron.

For example Fiend and Fey Patrons (only just realised the full benefits recently) are great for blade pacts but old ones a bit less so.

With that in mind, it might be worth making a not on some of the Fey pact spells re bladelocks.

Bladelocks want a high attack stat as a main feature and like a bit more con (and dex if it isn't their attack stat). This means that Cha is lower than it otherwise would be (at least in the early game). Fey pact gives a load of good spells that work well with a melee combatant AND that don't use Cha. Greater invisibility, farie fire, blink...
I think making that note is fine, but I'm a bit confused as to what the layout issue is. The Pact Boons and Patrons are already distinct from each other...


On the multi-classing I disagree on Monk. A one level dip for martial arts lets you be dex focussed and use a polearm if that's your thing. It has a role where it is pretty solid (also, some may prefer the saves).
That's a pretty MAD build, which defeats the purpose of focusing on DEX for attacks, no?

[Gignere]

As he said, that comes from the Invocation, not the Pact.
Don't worry, I am sure the Invocation will be the bluest of blues when he gets around to doing them.

Ok I got it but I think that is misleading I feel the invocations unique to the paths need to be considered as a part of the rating of the pact and not what you gain at exactly level 2.

Because overall Tome offers way more versatility due to an invocation that no other path can take. So how can you compare paths by ignoring unique invocations it isn't like pact of chain can ever get access to the ritual invocations.

[MrStabby]

I think making that note is fine, but I'm a bit confused as to what the layout issue is. The Pact Boons and Patrons are already distinct from each other...


That's a pretty MAD build, which defeats the purpose of focusing on DEX for attacks, no?

Ah sorry - I wasn't clear. I was just saying that which patron is which rating is dependant on which pact you take and vice versa.


As to the monk - well you need a 13 in Wis, that's all and it lets you dump Str instead. Otherwise if you were to go dex focussed bladelock you would be skipping out on all the great feats that support weapons like quarterstaves. Some of it also comes down to what you expect to do with your action and spell slots. If you aim to use your action to take the attack action then you are not using spells that have a to hit roll or a save (generally) so you significantly less from having a slightly lower Cha than otherwise.

[JumboWheat01]

Another fine guide, EvilAnagram. At this rate, you'll have a guide for EVERY class! I'm almost curious as to which one is next.

[Giant2005]

As to the monk - well you need a 13 in Wis, that's all and it lets you dump Str instead. Otherwise if you were to go dex focussed bladelock you would be skipping out on all the great feats that support weapons like quarterstaves. Some of it also comes down to what you expect to do with your action and spell slots. If you aim to use your action to take the attack action then you are not using spells that have a to hit roll or a save (generally) so you significantly less from having a slightly lower Cha than otherwise.

But why do all of that when you can instead take a level of Fighter for Heavy Armor proficiency (+shield if you are going to be using a staff)?
You get basically all of the same benefits without having to boost your Wisdom, and you save an invocation on Armor of Shadows.

[MrStabby]

But why do all of that when you can instead take a level of Fighter for Heavy Armor proficiency (+shield if you are going to be using a staff)?
You get basically all of the same benefits without having to boost your Wisdom, and you save an invocation on Armor of Shadows.

High initiative, better dex saves mainly - these are the reasons to go for using dex on the weapon rather than than Str.

I am not trying to say this is better than 1 level of fighter - just that I felt that giving it a flat red as if it had nothing special to contribute was selling it a bit short.

[EvilAnagram]

High initiative, better dex saves mainly - these are the reasons to go for using dex on the weapon rather than than Str.

I am not trying to say this is better than 1 level of fighter - just that I felt that giving it a flat red as if it had nothing special to contribute was selling it a bit short.

I updated the Monk MC to purple. I also finished rating all the spells and invocations. I'm done!

Feel free to tear apart my ratings.

[HappyPalindrome]

Thanks a lot Evil, I appreciate the work you've put I to your guides. And like a total d&d dweeb I've read all of them. Your pretty much the reason I gave up Rogue for a Dragonborn Ranger. I cast guidance on you and your cookies.

[SharkForce]

(spells)

blight: i have to disagree. you could cast shatter instead and deal slightly less damage, but in an area. it *is* legitimately good against plants, but that just makes it situational. you've already got good single-target damage if you want from eldritch blast.

dream is pretty ridiculous at making life sheer misery for an enemy that got away. perhaps it's just me, but i find it happens often enough that i would consider the situation to be common enough to not be so situational.


(invocations)

armour of shadows is mostly a +1 AC buff. assuming you don't find magic armour. it is nice, but... i dunno if i'd get *that* excited about it.

ascendant step: sadly, it requires concentration, and most importantly, is self-only. the ability to levitate enemy melee monsters at-will? would be pretty handy. this is not that ability. i would agree it is much better *if* you have some other source of lateral movement, but for the most part floating straight up isn't that much better of a deal than having a rope you can climb.

devil's sight: as a caster, an uncomfortably large portion of your arsenal include limitations like "creature you can see". anything that increases what you can see is a major advantage, imo.

eldritch sight: eh, i don't know that i'm wanting to cast it *all the time* really. it's ok, i guess, but i'd say it's a fair chance someone else has this as a ritual anyways.

mask of many faces: ummm... dispel... magic? are you sure? also "so useful" doesn't match well with black rating... i'd bump it up purely for the no concentration requirement.

master of many faces: should be master of myriad forms, i presume. concentration requirement slightly lowers value, but it does have some uses.

otherworldly leap: on the plus side, jump is concentration-free, and you've got it at-will now. still probably purple, but i'd rate it pretty highly in a campaign where i expect to spend a lot of time in cities, for example, where the ability to jump from the ground to a roof, or across a street from rooftop to rooftop, is much more interesting.

sign of ill omen, thief of five fates: i think the main thing that upsets me about these is that thematically, they should just be on the warlock list by default. anyways, bane is i think a better spell than you give it credit for... it's reverse-bless, and it scales. 7 target reverse-bless is not bad at all. save debuffs can be *extremely* hard to come by, and bane does that. the once per day limit is really the sticking point for either of these spells...

visions of distant realms: i realize this still leaves it situational, but i would specify the situation: the more prepared spellcasters you have in the party, the more amazing this invocation can be. i mean, it's handy to have an expendable ranged scout regardless, but an expendable ranged scout is much much better when you have someone who can adjust everything they do on a daily basis.

witch sight: if it was actually true sight, it would be awesome. sadly, it is not. it is creature-restricted true sight; an illusion of a rock is just as difficult for you to see through as anyone else.

(mystic arcanum)

- honorable mention: it is worth noting that, should you so desire, spell of level X - Y (where Y is an integer greater than or equal to 1) cast in a level X slot *is* a level X spell. so, for example, if you feel like you'd rather be able to use mass suggestion twice per day, with one of those uses lasting 10 days... you can totally put it in your level 6 *and* 7 mystic arcanum.

conjure fey: this isn't conjure woodland beings. you get to pick what you want, but it's only a single creature, and it could turn on you.

true seeing: i'd say it's a bit better than you give it credit for. this is real truesight, not the witch sight discount version.

etherealness: it's actually a pretty handy spell for just walking past all kinds of obstacles. it doesn't grant you actual flight, but it does get you the ability to get to a location that would require flight.

glibness: have you considered what happens when you combine this with dispel magic and counterspell?

true polymorph: also functions as a "summon anything with a CR lower than 9" spell in the great majority of locations (if there are literally no objects, you may encounter some difficulties).

[Giant2005]

Fiendish Vigor should be rated higher (or maybe Tough should be rated lower if you don't value hit points so much).
At 8 hp a pop, it takes 5 encounters for a level 1 character to gain as many hit points from Fiendish Vigor as a level 20 would gain from Tough. That is absolutely huge! And considering the game is supposedly balanced around 6+ encounters per day, any level 1 character will get more value out of the Invocation than a level 20 would get out of the feat.
Fiendish Vigor gives the more powerful benefit, while coming in at a lower cost (feats are a much more precious resource than invocations). There isn't really any way to justify it being rated lower than Tough. A solid argument could even be made for it being sky blue considering it gives a level 1 Warlock with 8 Con, the equivalent of 55 hit points. That is almost double the equivalent hit points of a level 1 Barbarian with 16 Con, while Raging. In my opinion, any ability that makes you tanky enough to not just shame, but absolutely humiliate a Barbarian that is striving for tankiness, should be considered as impressive as they come.

I also think that Devil's Sight should be rated sky blue. Devil's Sight turns Darkness into a buff that replicates the combat bonuses from Foresight. Anything that can turn level 2 spell slots into the virtual equivalent of level 9 spell slots is nothing short of amazing. Especially considering you (quite rightly) rated Foresight as sky blue. If something is sky blue when it consumes a level 9 spell slot, then the equivalent ability that consumes only a level 2 spell slot should be rated just as highly.

[Saggo]

- honorable mention: it is worth noting that, should you so desire, spell of level X - Y (where Y is an integer greater than or equal to 1) cast in a level X slot *is* a level X spell. so, for example, if you feel like you'd rather be able to use mass suggestion twice per day, with one of those uses lasting 10 days... you can totally put it in your level 6 *and* 7 mystic arcanum.

I'm not so sure.

"You can cast your arcanum spell once without expending a spell slot." (p108)

"When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting" (p201)

Not only is it only at the time of casting that the spell level is upscaled (so only at that moment, and not other times like picking and preparing), Mystic Arcanum doesn't actually use a slot to upscale with (meaning the spell only is only the level it inherently possesses).

[wr4tchild]

If that's the concern, taking Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate and grabbing Shocking Grasp is a better bet since you'll be able to extricate yourself from melee, and you'll get other solid benefits to boot.


I have to disagree with you there. If you have the Repelling Blast invocation a hit with Eldritch Blast will both deny your opponent their OA and give you the chance to move out of their movement range due to the increased distance between you.

As for the chances to actually succeed, from 5th level and onwards Eldritch Blast with Crossbow Expert will have the upper hand against Shocking Grasp, very much so from 11th level.

Keeping your damage on its normal level is a bonus.

[EvilAnagram]

blight
Good point.


dream
I really do only find it useful on occasion.


armour of shadows
It's definitely worth getting excited about before you find studded leather, and you can exchange it if you find a better source of AC.


ascendant step
It's good for escaping the reach of melee combatants so you can blast with impunity.


devil's sight
I had forgotten to apply its proper color. Good spotting.


eldritch sight
Yeah, if there's a wizard you might as well let him cast it. Otherwise, it's quite useful quite regularly.


mask of many faces
Whoops. Good eye.


master of many faces
Well-spotted


otherworldly leap
Good point.


sign of ill omen/thief of five fates
You make some solid points. I've updated


honorable mention: it is worth noting that, should you so desire, spell of level X - Y (where Y is an integer greater than or equal to 1) cast in a level X slot *is* a level X spell. so, for example, if you feel like you'd rather be able to use mass suggestion twice per day, with one of those uses lasting 10 days... you can totally put it in your level 6 *and* 7 mystic arcanum.
I don't think that's how it works.


conjure fey
My mistake. Good eye.


true seeing
Maybe. It seems to me that Faerie Fire will do just as well in revealing invisible creatures with a lower opportunity cost.


etherealness
Yeah, I think I was a bit unfair here.


glibness
...I had not. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nSKkwzwdW4)


true polymorph
Will note.


Crossbow Expert
I will purplize Crossbow Expert, although I would point out that Shocking Grasp has a solid chance of providing advantage.


Fiendish Vigor
False Life's big draw is the way it scales. This version doesn't scale. It's 6 (not 8) hp a pop, and a small boost at the start of an encounter does not usually amount to 55+ HP in practice. In my experience, from the DM's point of view, at first level it just leads to a Warlock who thinks he's invincible and gets taken down by goblins, and at later levels is abandoned for a different invocation. For Fiendlocks it's garbage.

I have lowered the rating of Toughness across all my guides, though, since it doesn't really improve your tactical choices.

[Oramac]

Contagion: A solid grouping of debuffs that don't go off until after the three failed saves.

It might be worth noting that per RAW, it applies immediately. It's only after Dev tweets and sage advice that they've stated it requires 3 failed saves before application.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

True story: It took me forever to figure out why Darkness + Devil's Sight was amazing because it took me forever to figure out that you make the darkness move with you. Might be worth spelling that out in a sentence or two.

[EvilAnagram]

True story: It took me forever to figure out why Darkness + Devil's Sight was amazing because it took me forever to figure out that you make the darkness move with you. Might be worth spelling that out in a sentence or two.

I mean, the main draw is that you get to attack with advantage while everyone else is at disadvantage to hit you. Moving with you is noce, but it would still be amazing without that.


It might be worth noting that per RAW, it applies immediately. It's only after Dev tweets and sage advice that they've stated it requires 3 failed saves before application.
I included that language.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I mean, the main draw is that you get to attack with advantage while everyone else is at disadvantage to hit you. Moving with you is noce, but it would still be amazing without that.Less than you think.

If you drop the darkness on the monsters, then everyone else in the party gets disadvantage on their attack rolls against the bad guys and they can just walk out.

If you drop the darkness on the party, the spellcasters are completely screwed because they no longer have line of sight and the melee fighters (besides Rogues) don't even benefit because they have to leave the darkness anyway. This works for the ranged folks only if they have the space to pop in and out, but then the monsters can enter the darkness and both sides are screwed again.

If you drop the darkness somewhere else, it does nothing, obviously.

Darkness looks great in a vacuum against the tofu, but with a party it's not so great unless you move it around.

[EvilAnagram]

snip

Drop darkness on yourself, away from the party, and you can attack with advantage while everyone else has disadvantage to hit you, with or without moving.

[Giant2005]

Less than you think.

If you drop the darkness on the monsters, then everyone else in the party gets disadvantage on their attack rolls against the bad guys and they can just walk out.

If you drop the darkness on the party, the spellcasters are completely screwed because they no longer have line of sight and the melee fighters (besides Rogues) don't even benefit because they have to leave the darkness anyway. This works for the ranged folks only if they have the space to pop in and out, but then the monsters can enter the darkness and both sides are screwed again.

If you drop the darkness somewhere else, it does nothing, obviously.

Darkness looks great in a vacuum against the tofu, but with a party it's not so great unless you move it around.

That is a common misconception (that really needs shut down every time it pops up).
They don't have disadvantage on their attacks. They get disadvantage for attacking while blind, but they also get advantage for attacking a blinded target. It comes out as a wash with neither advantage nor disadvantage.

[Xetheral]

That is a common misconception (that really needs shut down every time it pops up).
They don't have disadvantage on their attacks. They get disadvantage for attacking while blind, but they also get advantage for attacking a blinded target. It comes out as a wash with neither advantage nor disadvantage.

Although, depending on the DM's interpretation of darkness, they may not know the enemy's location and have to guess (or make listen checks). (Particularly ranged characters far away from the darkness.)

[tsuyoshikentsu]

...I feel like this is making my point about how some of us could use help understanding the intricacies of this.

[EvilAnagram]

...I feel like this is making my point about how some of us could use help understanding the intricacies of this.
In general, someone with the Blinded status is at disadvantage to hit others, while others have advantage to hit them. Darkness creates an area in which everyone inside is Blinded, and everyone targeting someone within the area is also effectively Blinded vs. that person. If someone attacks you in an area of darkness, she has disadvantage because she is Blinded, but she also has advantage because you are Blinded. Because advantage and disadvantage cancel each other out, it is a normal attack.

This is a silly RAW oversight, and almost every DM will rule that someone attacking into Darkness will have disadvantage. The RAW reading isn't worth actually discussing save as an oddity because no decent DM will actually rule it by RAW over RAI. At best, it's an interesting mess up that should be erased in errata.

That said, if you have Devil's Sight, everyone targeting you while you are in a cloud of Darkness is effectively Blinded, while you are not. This means you have advantage targeting them, while they have disadvantage when targeting you. And because you have an excellent ranged spell cantrip, you only need to target yourself, an item you carry, or the square you are in. Moving with you is a bonus, but just dropping Darkness on yourself is great for improving your performance.

[Saggo]

This is a silly RAW oversight, and almost every DM will rule that someone attacking into Darkness will have disadvantage.

It makes sense to me, since the attack roll is not necessarily how accurate you are but the chance of landing a hit of which accuracy plays a part. You hitting by hearing but he's dodging by hearing. Then flavor of how it landed might be different but the final chance of landing the hit could be similar.

[Giant2005]

This is a silly RAW oversight, and almost every DM will rule that someone attacking into Darkness will have disadvantage. The RAW reading isn't worth actually discussing save as an oddity because no decent DM will actually rule it by RAW over RAI. At best, it's an interesting mess up that should be erased in errata.

The RAW and RAI are the exact same thing. The devs obviously intended being blind to lower one's defense (and for obvious reasons) - they couldn't write in that clause by accident. The odds of a typo of that length appearing in a sequence that actually makes sense within the english language are absurd.

[EvilAnagram]

The RAW and RAI are the exact same thing. The devs obviously intended being blind to lower one's defense (and for obvious reasons) - they couldn't write in that clause by accident. The odds of a typo of that length appearing in a sequence that actually makes sense within the english language are absurd.

It's as easy as, "A creature who is not also blind has advantage when attacking a blinded creature."

[ShikomeKidoMi]

It's still very situational but here's an interesting fact about Eyes of the Runekeeper: It says it lets you read all writing, not just writing in other languages. So, it has one advantage over picking up Comprehend Languages as a ritual because your DM may let you use it to break codes.

[Arkhios]

I kind of disagree with your rating with Charger. A bladelock could find that extra damage about as useful as Great Weapon Master. You really don't need to move that far to gain the benefit; at least 10 feet in straight line can end there if need be. Better yet, this could benefit a finesse bladelock who can't benefit from Great Weapon Master.

[Spacehamster]

Should not Polearm master be rated blue for blade lock? works perfectly both for free bonus attack that scaled nicely with the bonus damage from lvl 12 +CHA to damage
and is also really nice with quarterstaff + shield combo. :)

Also ranger MC should be purple or black at least in my opinion, sure you need WIS 13 but WIS is kinda useful for all classes anyways beeing a good save
and used for perception, extra attack from horde breaker is beautiful for a blade lock and fighting style is nothing to scoff at either. But yes probably
hard to come up with the stats needed unless you go normal human + point buy or just get pretty nice rolls so see your point with it beeing red. :)

Also on Paladin MC maybe put a warning that many DM´s would prob not let you be a Paladin with a sold soul. :)

[MarkTriumphant]

False Life's big draw is the way it scales. This version doesn't scale. It's 6 (not 8) hp a pop, and a small boost at the start of an encounter does not usually amount to 55+ HP in practice.

Why do you say that it is 6 points? Since it is castable at will, the Warlock can continue to cast until he gets 8 points.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Also on Paladin MC maybe put a warning that many DM´s would prob not let you be a Paladin with a sold soul. :)

Why in the world would they not?

[Spacehamster]

Why in the world would they not?

Cause paladins are generally good and people that sell their soul to Cthulu are not?

[Xetheral]

In the description of the rating for Sorcerer you might want to mention the amazing utility of exchanging unused pact magic slots for sorcery points (or sorcerer spell slots via points if you're full). Sure, it all resets on a long rest, but if you get an unexpected short rest you can roll over your unexpended power. Similarly, whenever there is short-term downtime (e.g. waiting for another character to go shopping, waiting for nightfall, waiting for a guard rotation, etc.) you can hoard the otherwise-wasted pact magic slots you get from taking a few short rests in a row.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Cause paladins are generally good and people that sell their soul to Cthulu are not?

Paladins in this edition have no alignment restrictions whatsoever and, in fact, could be construed as MORE likely to sell their souls as part of an oath. I could certainly see an LE Paladin doing so for the Fiend pact, an LG one doing it for the Undying Light, a True Neutral one doing it for Undeath, and a Chaotic Neutral one doing it for Great Old One. Fae could be pratically anything.

The only DMs who would do that are the ones who just really aren't familiar with 5E.

[Citan]

Hi!

Thanks for your guide, read it quickly.
Agreed with nearly everything globally.

Just not sure about Ranger and Barbarian being red.
Barbarian, sure is a pain with casting =/= rage, but I feel a Bladelock could go around this if built to emphasize use of non-concentration spells. It would be viable mainly for balanced split though (= at least Barbarian lvl 7, best with Barb "main").
So I'd suggest putting it black only for Bladelocks.

Ranger could samely be put at purple at least, but for Bladelocks only: Fighting Style, 2 lvl 1 spells and potential extra attack (Hunter) can always find their daily use. And this works with low dip.

My 2 (very quick unfortunately, not much time right now) cents. :)

[Spacehamster]

Paladins in this edition have no alignment restrictions whatsoever and, in fact, could be construed as MORE likely to sell their souls as part of an oath. I could certainly see an LE Paladin doing so for the Fiend pact, an LG one doing it for the Undying Light, a True Neutral one doing it for Undeath, and a Chaotic Neutral one doing it for Great Old One. Fae could be pratically anything.

The only DMs who would do that are the ones who just really aren't familiar with 5E.

Well if you read on especially devotion and ancients Paladins they are defo designed to be good aligned, vengence pally sure that one could work and obviously oathbreaker since that one IS evil but more designed as a villain class. :)

[JumboWheat01]

Well if you read on especially devotion and ancients Paladins they are defo designed to be good aligned, vengence pally sure that one could work and obviously oathbreaker since that one IS evil but more designed as a villain class. :)

Ancient Paladins would get along perfectly well with Fey-pact Warlocks. They're practically Fey Knights in general, adding onto powers which come from the fey is perfectly fine.

Warlock =/= Evil. Heck, in 3.5 (for example,) you could be a Chaotic Good Warlock, which a Fey-pact would probably sit in quite comfortably, as would an Ancients Paladin, if you're still stuck with the whole "must be this alignment" thing.

[Arial Black]

Well if you read on especially devotion and ancients Paladins they are defo designed to be good aligned, vengence pally sure that one could work and obviously oathbreaker since that one IS evil but more designed as a villain class. :)

It's up to the player to come up with a backstory that does make sense of this multi-class.

It is not for the DM to pre-emptively rule that no player could possibly come up with a cool story, before he's even heard the story!

I've been on threads that have this discussion, and there are many, many ideas that will work. Pointing to one idea that you think does not work, and then using that as a reason to disallow all potential stories that would work before you've even heard them, would be very poor DMing indeed!

Just an easy one off the top of my head, why should a paladin with the Oath of the Ancients be appalled at the idea of making a Fey Pact; a pact with the very beings he has sworn an oath to serve?

[Spacehamster]

Ancient Paladins would get along perfectly well with Fey-pact Warlocks. They're practically Fey Knights in general, adding onto powers which come from the fey is perfectly fine.

Warlock =/= Evil. Heck, in 3.5 (for example,) you could be a Chaotic Good Warlock, which a Fey-pact would probably sit in quite comfortably, as would an Ancients Paladin, if you're still stuck with the whole "must be this alignment" thing.

Yeah I wholly agree and would tbh allow most combos if a player had a good story reason for it, more meant some DMs might have trouble accepting it with for example devotion/fiend combo. :)

[Arkhios]

Please, guys... Let's just drop the argument about whether a paladin and a warlock can or cannot mesh with each other, ok? This has been argued over several times with no end that satisfies each parties. Just, let it go. Let table variance take care of it. We are all entitled to our own opinions and while I agree that I wouldn't allow a paladin/warlock multiclass (lightly), to someone else that might be of no issue.

[EvilAnagram]

I kind of disagree with your rating with Charger. A bladelock could find that extra damage about as useful as Great Weapon Master. You really don't need to move that far to gain the benefit; at least 10 feet in straight line can end there if need be. Better yet, this could benefit a finesse bladelock who can't benefit from Great Weapon Master.
The extra attack only comes into play when you take the Dash action. A Warlock doesn't need this because if he can't get close enough to attack in melee, he can use Eldritch Blast. Charger is for people with a great melee attack and poor ranged attacks.


Should not Polearm master be rated blue for blade lock? works perfectly both for free bonus attack that scaled nicely with the bonus damage from lvl 12 +CHA to damage
and is also really nice with quarterstaff + shield combo. :)
Good point.


Also ranger MC should be purple or black at least in my opinion, sure you need WIS 13 but WIS is kinda useful for all classes anyways beeing a good save
and used for perception, extra attack from horde breaker is beautiful for a blade lock and fighting style is nothing to scoff at either. But yes probably
hard to come up with the stats needed unless you go normal human + point buy or just get pretty nice rolls so see your point with it beeing red. :)
I'll think about this. It's super MAD.


Also on Paladin MC maybe put a warning that many DM´s would prob not let you be a Paladin with a sold soul. :)
There's nothing against it in RAW, and they should be discussing any multiclass choices with their DM anyways.

[Arkhios]

The extra attack only comes into play when you take the Dash action. A Warlock doesn't need this because if he can't get close enough to attack in melee, he can use Eldritch Blast. Charger is for people with a great melee attack and poor ranged attacks.


Hmm, that's a valid point. Ignore what I said earlier :P

[Spacehamster]

The extra attack only comes into play when you take the Dash action. A Warlock doesn't need this because if he can't get close enough to attack in melee, he can use Eldritch Blast. Charger is for people with a great melee attack and poor ranged attacks.


Good point.


I'll think about this. It's super MAD.

With point buy and half elf putting +1 in DEX and CON and taking stats as follows 9/15/13/8/13/14 you end up with 16 in primary attack stat and 14 CON and 16 CHA so not too shabby imo. :)

[EvilAnagram]

I updated it, including the Ranger and PM suggestions.

[HoodedHero007]

You forgot undying light

[TheTeaMustFlow]

You forgot undying light

Much as I dislike agreeing with this one, any chance of doing the UA Pacts?

[EvilAnagram]

I fully intend to look at the UA pacts, but first I will enjoy lunch and a nice walk on my day off.

Also, pleased leave any animosities, old arguments, and unrelated tangents out of this. I fully expect conversation to get heated at times, but be polite and don't veer wildly off topic.

[tieren]

Thanks for the arcanum ratings.

I'm building a OotA paladin 8/ Fey patron warlock 12, so the 6th level arcanum is basically my capstone.

I wasn't aware there even were EE options for that (guess I may need to buy another book).

I was leaning towards mass suggestion in my review of the PHB options, but I am hearing some DMs are sticklers on the "must make course of action seem reasonable" to the point it has no combat effectiveness. Is this something I am likely to run into?

I also would love some permanent pets like the ghouls, but I don't want ghouls because they don't fit the character. I would prefer fey, there is the conjure fey option but the duration is limited and has danger of turning on you and costing concentration. Is it reasonable to ask the DM to fluff the ghouls into satyrs/dryads or something more fey (maybe even twig blights)?

I am also considering being a master of teleportation (blink, misty step, misty escape, dimension door) (I'll have paladin slots for the lower level ones) arcane gate could fit with that, but other than the bringing more people along I don't think it brings much to the table.

Sorry if this is unfocused but so are my thoughts on the subject. Does anyone have any advice for what I should pick?

[SharkForce]

I wasn't aware there even were EE options for that (guess I may need to buy another book).

the character options are available free of charge on the internet. look up elemental evil player's companion (i think that's what it's called). should be on the WotC website somewhere.

[gfishfunk]

From what I have seen Warlocks actually do in campaigns, this guide is very accurate.

[EvilAnagram]

I wasn't aware there even were EE options for that (guess I may need to buy another book).
As Sharkforce said, the EE player options are on a free pdf released by Wizards online.


I was leaning towards mass suggestion in my review of the PHB options, but I am hearing some DMs are sticklers on the "must make course of action seem reasonable" to the point it has no combat effectiveness. Is this something I am likely to run into?
I mean, plenty of things can be made to seem reasonable. "I saw that guy attack a widow, get him!" could easily stir up a crowd via Mass Suggestion, and once the mob gets rolling it's easier to persuade new people to join it.


I also would love some permanent pets like the ghouls, but I don't want ghouls because they don't fit the character. I would prefer fey, there is the conjure fey option but the duration is limited and has danger of turning on you and costing concentration. Is it reasonable to ask the DM to fluff the ghouls into satyrs/dryads or something more fey (maybe even twig blights)?
Couldn't hurt to ask. Talk it out with your DM.


I am also considering being a master of teleportation (blink, misty step, misty escape, dimension door) (I'll have paladin slots for the lower level ones) arcane gate could fit with that, but other than the bringing more people along I don't think it brings much to the table.
That's really all it's good for. It's a good benefit, but it's clearly not game-changing.

If you want to stick with fey, I think conjuring a fey creature is a perfectly good spell, and if it turns on you that's just more experience for you!

[tieren]

As Sharkforce said, the EE player options are on a free pdf released by Wizards online.


If you want to stick with fey, I think conjuring a fey creature is a perfectly good spell, and if it turns on you that's just more experience for you!

Thanks, I found the pdf.

I like that idea thematically, except there aren't any high CR fey creatures, and summoning mammoths and dinosaurs doesn't fit the theme. I really think they should have put Conjure woodland beings on the expanded fey pact list.

By combat uses of mass suggestion I meant things like "lets put our weapons down and talk this out" or "you guys should really run away at this point before I get really mad".

Investiture of Wind looks really powerful at first, but I'll have levitate at will by that point and knock things around with repelling blast so its mostly for the disadvantage and that seems a little meta-gamey munchkinish reason to take it to me.

[Saggo]

Minor thing, but it seems like you still have a formatting error in your stat block for Strength.

[HoodedHero007]

Much as I dislike agreeing with this one, any chance of doing the UA Pacts?
I'm glad I've built a reputation!:smallbiggrin:

[EvilAnagram]

By combat uses of mass suggestion I meant things like "lets put our weapons down and talk this out" or "you guys should really run away at this point before I get really mad".
I'd say those are perfectly reasonable. That's exactly the kind of thing I use it for.


Investiture of Wind looks really powerful at first, but I'll have levitate at will by that point and knock things around with repelling blast so its mostly for the disadvantage and that seems a little meta-gamey munchkinish reason to take it to me.
Remember that Levitate doesn't allow lateral movement unless you push off at something, and then you're still not controlled. Investiture of Wind allows true flight, plus the disadvantage (which is totally cheesy) and a nice little AoE (which is helpful to Warlocks).


Minor thing, but it seems like you still have a formatting error in your stat block for Strength.
Fixed it, thanks!

[tieren]

Are the EE spells from the pdf considered "legal" for AL play?

[SharkForce]

Are the EE spells from the pdf considered "legal" for AL play?

yes, but not if you also want to use the cantrips from SCAG. you're allowed the PHB plus one other sourcebook per character, no more.

[Spacehamster]

So in theory how good would blade lock with STR build with 2 levels fighter and 1 level tempest cleric as MC be? Reaction damage from tempest cleric that goes nice with fire shield from fiend pact, heavy armor, fighting style, action surge, access to bless, healing and other level 1 cleric goodies at the cost of a feat/ASI.

Seems legit to me if you got the stats to back it up that is.

[Gastronomie]

So in theory how good would blade lock with STR build with 2 levels fighter and 1 level tempest cleric as MC be? Reaction damage from tempest cleric that goes nice with fire shield from fiend pact, heavy armor, fighting style, action surge, access to bless, healing and other level 1 cleric goodies at the cost of a feat/ASI.

Seems legit to me if you got the stats to back it up that is.If the campaign starts at level 8 or higher it's gonna be pretty darn interesting, but if it starts at level 1~7 it might make your character underwhelming (a problem with a lot of multiclass builds). You also need to justify being both a cleric and warlock at the same time - not that it's difficult (it actually allows you to create interesting backstories), but that it does require some thought.

[Spacehamster]

If the campaign starts at level 8 or higher it's gonna be pretty darn interesting, but if it starts at level 1~7 it might make your character underwhelming (a problem with a lot of multiclass builds). You also need to justify being both a cleric and warlock at the same time - not that it's difficult (it actually allows you to create interesting backstories), but that it does require some thought.

Would start at 1 fighter 5 warlock 20 STR, polearm master, level 3 spells and overall useful stuff and coming levels would all give something useful, 7 action surge, 8 lvl 1 cleric stuff and reaction damage, 9 pact feature, 10 lvl 4 warlock spells, 11 feat/ASI. So feels like it should be pretty fun to level feature wise. :)

[Arial Black]

Dual Wielder: Nope. You only get one pact weapon.

This puzzles me. What has this got to do with TWF?

In TWF you get two attacks with your pact weapon (if you have Thirsting Blade....and you WILL have Thirsting Blade!) and only one bonus attack with your off-hand weapon. Since your second weapon can't benefit from a second attack, the fact that it isn't your pact weapon is irrelevant.

Okay, so at 12th level you won't get to add you Cha mod to the off-hand weapon damage. So what? Neither does any other TWFer, and it doesn't stop them from TWFing! At least the warlock still gets to add hex damage to all his weapon attacks, and TWFing is the best way to maximise hex's benefit.

[MaxWilson]

It's interesting to me that you rate Barbarian/Warlock as low, but Fighter/Warlock as high, apparently on the Rage/Spellcasting anti-synergy. My experience is the opposite: if you happen to roll high stats, Warbearian (Barbarian 2-3, Fiend Bladelock X) is about as much fun as you can have in D&D. You get all the fun parts of Barbarian Smash, plus temp HP on kill and Armor of Agathys + Rage shenanigans. You only get 2-3 rages per day, so you're not a full-time Hulk, but you have a good mix of long rest/short rest abilities and you'll be well prepared for any number of encounters per adventuring day, from 1/day to 20/day.

And you still get to True Polymorph yourself into an Ancient White Dragon when you feel like it, and/or play with Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Spear to blast enemies through your Walls of Fire for d10+5d8+5 per hit, and do all the regular warlock stuff. Compared to a Fighter 1/Warlock, you lose a between 1 and 4 points of AC (depending) which means you're less good against hordes... but hordes are a great time to put up Armor of Agathys V and go Hulk Smash, anyway.

In short, I disagree with the gap between Fighter (Dark Blue) and Barbarian (Red). They should really be the same color.

[Millstone85]

This guide seems to paint my build as a reasonable one and that pleases me.

Which ability would you say a Dex 14, Con 16, Cha 18 GOO-chain-lock should improve first?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

This guide seems to paint my build as a reasonable one and that pleases me.

Which ability would you say a Dex 14, Con 16, Cha 18 GOO-chain-lock should improve first?

Assuming you're doing the standard chainlock thing (that is to say, mostly being a caster), I'd say charisma.

[Millstone85]

Assuming you're doing the standard chainlock thing (that is to say, mostly being a caster), I'd say charisma.Well, I might have invested more in concentration than is standard. Variant human feat Resilient (Constitution) and most of my spells use it. It makes sense with the character's fluff.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Well, I might have invested more in concentration than is standard. Variant human feat Resilient (Constitution) and most of my spells use it. It makes sense with the character's fluff.

If concentration (rather than other constitution stuff) is what's worrying you, you may want to consider War Caster, as advantage on the check is a lot better than just a +1 to it.

Still, either con or dex would be a perfectly reasonable choice - 18 charisma is enough to be getting on with at a low level. But I think I'd still advise charisma on balance.

Edit: Just realised I've been assuming you are low level based on what you've been saying, but you never actually said it. If you're 8th level or higher, I'd definitely recommend charisma so that your attacks and DCs keep up, but if you actually are low level, it's not a huge worry.

[Millstone85]

If concentration (rather than other constitution stuff) is what's worrying you, you may want to consider War Caster, as advantage on the check is a lot better than just a +1 to it.Hit points and other Con saves are nice too. And it is more than a +1 now.


Just realised I've been assuming you are low level based on what you've been saying, but you never actually said it. If you're 8th level or higher, I'd definitely recommend charisma so that your attacks and DCs keep up, but if you actually are low level, it's not a huge worry.5th level but thinking about the 8th level's ability score improvement.


Still, either con or dex would be a perfectly reasonable choice - 18 charisma is enough to be getting on with at a low level. But I think I'd still advise charisma on balance.Charisma it is then. Thank you.

[Polarthief]

Omg, you did a Warlock guide? Awesome! Still a huge fan of your layout Evil!

I'd like to add my two cp regarding the pacts though, I'd argue that Pact of the Tome should be sky blue as well, given that it can mimic the effects of the other two.

Tome allows you to get the Ritual invocation (which, yes, you made sky blue), but that allows you to summon (albeit weaker) familiars, partially mimicking the Chain pact. Regarding the Blade pact, pick up the Druid cantrip Shillelagh as one of your three (since you can pick 3 of any class's cantrips, even multiple classes!), and it will use Charisma for your weapon instead of Strength or Dexterity. Unless you were planning on using 2h weapons with Blade pact, Shillelagh alone not only covers most of the Blade pact benefits, but is arguably better than it til Level 12 unless you go full Dex or Str (Lifedrinker does Dex/Str + Cha but Shillelagh does +Cha which is probably higher, and doesn't cost an invocation).

I just feel like the versatility of the tome, the fact that Shillelagh exists (and becomes a Warlock cantrip so it uses Cha instead of Wis), and that you can also pick up a familiar makes Tomelock a pretty solid choice, arguably a go-to for any blaster.


Chain, idk if it's just bias, but I don't see why it gets so much praise in comparison to Tome which can mimic it for the most part.

[Spacehamster]

Omg, you did a Warlock guide? Awesome! Still a huge fan of your layout Evil!

I'd like to add my two cp regarding the pacts though, I'd argue that Pact of the Tome should be sky blue as well, given that it can mimic the effects of the other two.

Tome allows you to get the Ritual invocation (which, yes, you made sky blue), but that allows you to summon (albeit weaker) familiars, partially mimicking the Chain pact. Regarding the Blade pact, pick up the Druid cantrip Shillelagh as one of your three (since you can pick 3 of any class's cantrips, even multiple classes!), and it will use Charisma for your weapon instead of Strength or Dexterity. Unless you were planning on using 2h weapons with Blade pact, Shillelagh alone not only covers most of the Blade pact benefits, but is arguably better than it til Level 12 unless you go full Dex or Str (Lifedrinker does Dex/Str + Cha but Shillelagh does +Cha which is probably higher, and doesn't cost an invocation).

I just feel like the versatility of the tome, the fact that Shillelagh exists (and becomes a Warlock cantrip so it uses Cha instead of Wis), and that you can also pick up a familiar makes Tomelock a pretty solid choice, arguably a go-to for any blaster.


Chain, idk if it's just bias, but I don't see why it gets so much praise in comparison to Tome which can mimic it for the most part.

How is the Shillelagh cantrip superior until level 12 when you only get one attack with it while blade gets 2 at level 5? O_o

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I really think the utility of going Fighter 2 to start encounters off with a free cast of Fly or Darkness warrants a mention.

[Spacehamster]

I really think the utility of going Fighter 2 to start encounters off with a free cast of Fly or Darkness warrants a mention.

2 Fighter / 1 Life Cleric /17 Blade lock would be pretty baller. :)

[Arkhios]

How is the Shillelagh cantrip superior until level 12 when you only get one attack with it while blade gets 2 at level 5? O_o

Extra Attack doesn't mix well with the SCAG cantrips: Booming Blade and Green-Flame blade, unless you can attack or cast a spell with a bonus action, so technically Shillelagh (magical weapon!) + either BB/GFB does compete quite nicely with Extra Attack. GFB is strictly better of the two, since it's also based on charisma for the extra damage.

[Spacehamster]

Extra Attack doesn't mix well with the SCAG cantrips: Booming Blade and Green-Flame blade, unless you can attack or cast a spell with a bonus action, so technically Shillelagh (magical weapon!) + either BB/GFB does compete quite nicely with Extra Attack. GFB is strictly better of the two, since it's also based on charisma for the extra damage.

Ah true enough but I would take 3 attacks (PAM + extra attack) over 1 strong attack every day of the week for the bigger chance to land at least some damage each turn to be honest. :)

[Arkhios]

Ah true enough but I would take 3 attacks (PAM + extra attack) over 1 strong attack every day of the week for the bigger chance to land at least some damage each turn to be honest. :)

Sure, you might. That, however, wasn't the point to my understanding; the point was that Tomelock could mimic relatively well both Chainlock and Bladelock (in this case) - not as good as either, but close.

[Polarthief]

How is the Shillelagh cantrip superior until level 12 when you only get one attack with it while blade gets 2 at level 5? O_o

I sort of did forget about that in my specific circumstance because I'm going Tomelock 5/Soul Sorc 15 (Soul Sorc gives EA at L6), but as Arkhios pointed out, EA is pretty weak with BB/GFB (since you're casting a spell and not taking the "Attack Action", EA doesn't trigger from BB/GFB).


Sure, you might. That, however, wasn't the point to my understanding; the point was that Tomelock could mimic relatively well both Chainlock and Bladelock (in this case) - not as good as either, but close.

Exactly, though I could argue about being as good as Bladelock, depending on what you specifically wanted to do. There's no question that Chainlocks have better familiars than Tomelocks (though if you only wanted him to cast Touch-ranged spells, they'd be pretty equal), but until L12 and assuming you're going Cha, Shillelagh is going to be pretty strong. The only best-case scenario I can think of is if you went Lore Bard 6-8 picked up Shillelagh, went Bladelock 12. Now you have EA, BB/GFB, Shillelagh, and Lifedrinker (Lifedrinker does stack with Shillelagh AFAIK, giving your weapon a base 1d8+2x Cha), though then you're stuck as a "Blade"lock using a club or staff.

Aaaaanyway, that's what I was getting at. The versatility of the Tomelock is unparalleled and can work as a fine melee-lock if done properly. Bladelocks may get EA, but then they need to MAD Str and/or Dex, while Shillelagh completely removes the need to dump ASIs into them (might want some base Str or Dex for armor though). Having to trade more to-hit for Charisma/vice versa/giving up feats kinda blows, at least that's how I see it. Think of it this way: Would you rather boost one stat that boosts your spellcasting and melee damage, or one stat that only does one or the other? The only huge downside is losing Lifedrinker, though with Shillelagh, you get more to-hit and base attack damage for only one stat (though again, Lore Bard 6 would let you use Cha for everything).


PS: I could be wrong about all of this anyway. After all, I only just got into D&D ~3 months ago, so feel free to take or leave my posts, it's just my 2cp. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I definitely want to be told why so I can learn for next time. Most if not all of my points are also based on idea/theorycrafting as I haven't played that much.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Actually, TomeLock can't just take the BladeLock's stuff so easily.

Both the Thirsting Blade and the Lifedrinker Invocations specify that they only grant their benefits to a Warlock's Pact Weapon (BladeLock feature), and Shillelagh doesn't qualify for those.

[Polarthief]

Actually, TomeLock can't just take the BladeLock's stuff so easily.

Both the Thirsting Blade and the Lifedrinker Invocations specify that they only grant their benefits to a Warlock's Pact Weapon (BladeLock feature), and Shillelagh doesn't qualify for those.

I'm aware and never said that Tomelock can take TB (not like it would want it since GFB/BB would probs be better) or Lifedrinker, and what says Shillelagh doesn't stack with TB/LD? Just use a Club or Quarterstaff as your Pact Weapon (as a Bladelock), problem solved (though you'd need to take Lore Bard 6 in order to do this). The only rule on your Pact Weapon is that it must be a melee weapon (RAI further specifies it must be a typical Simple or Martial weapon). Clubs and Quarterstaves are melee weapons (and to add to that, both are also Simple for the sake of RAI).

I was pointing out that Shillelagh is like Lifedrinker in a way. Lifedrinker just adds your Cha mod to your weapon damage on top of the pre-existing Str or Dex mod it already has. If you used Shillelagh though, you'd roll 1d8+Cha for your weapon's damage, then Lifedrinker adds +Cha, effectively making a Bladelock/Lore Bard with Lifedrinker+Shillelagh deal [2 * (1d8+2x Cha)] on two attacks (Attack + Thirsting Blade) or 1d8+2x Cha + BB/GFB if you went with those instead. Oh and because you're using Shillelagh, all your attack rolls add Cha, not Str/Dex, meaning you don't need to go as MAD and can use extra ASIs on Con or Feats (or whatever else you'd like, it's your character). If you're a Dex-Bladelock, your best weapon is a Rapier at 1d8+Dex anyways (pre-magic weapons), so why not just make it Cha if you're willing to put 6 levels in Bard? ;)

[Smorgonoffz]

I'm playing a warlock in a A.L game , we reached second level and i wanted to rebuild my pc into a bladelock.

Should i Start with 1 level of fighter and then Warlock alll the way, or should i wai till i'm 3rdlevel and do 2 fighter rest warlock?

Race: Variant human or another race?


Also aside from eldritch blast, should i choose among the scag cantrips?


Thanks to everyone

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I'm playing a warlock in a A.L game , we reached second level and i wanted to rebuild my pc into a bladelock.

Should i Start with 1 level of fighter and then Warlock alll the way, or should i wai till i'm 3rdlevel and do 2 fighter rest warlock?

Race: Variant human or another race?


Also aside from eldritch blast, should i choose among the scag cantrips?


Thanks to everyone

Speaking as someone playing a Lock/fighter, wait until level 3, go Fighter 1/Lock 2 IN THAT ORDER, take a level of Fighter at 4 for a total of Fighter 2/Lock 2, and then Lock all the way.

[DeAnno]

Speaking as someone playing a Lock/fighter, wait until level 3, go Fighter 1/Lock 2 IN THAT ORDER, take a level of Fighter at 4 for a total of Fighter 2/Lock 2, and then Lock all the way.

I'm a little surprised a Bladelock doesn't want Fighter 3 for Superiority Dice. I did something similar with Fighter 2/Warlock X but I was more Eldritch Blast focused.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I'm a little surprised a Bladelock doesn't want Fighter 3 for Superiority Dice. I did something similar with Fighter 2/Warlock X but I was more Eldritch Blast focused.

Maybe later, but I'd say that's delaying spell advancement, Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker too much.

[Asmotherion]

If the campain allows no multiclass, my best bet to being deadly is bladelock. Magic initiate to get shillellagh and try to get wisdom as high as possible (after your charisma hits 20 ofcourse). For a wile this build rellyes more on eldrich blast (as all warlocks should) but at higher level this becomes an awesome dammage dealer. Combine this with Armor of Agathis + Fiend Pact + That invocation that allows you to spam false life, use one more of your spell slots for Mage Armor and your defances are now at least decend or higher. Then, one more spell slot for hex, leaving you with one spell slot for versality to either cast a nice (persistant or not) Aoe (very situationar), or simply cast fire shield to punish melee attackers even more. And now you're out of spell slots till your next short rest... if you have any complains look at your cantrips, at-will invocations and Dammage dealing/deffences ability; still not satisfied? If not, then you shouldn't have been a warlock in the first place.

Also you need polearm master to pull this off effectivelly, as it gives you more attacks. Then War Caster, as it allows you to cast some spell when the opponent runs away from you (after realising that hitting you in melee is not a great idea, as you are effectivelly a mine), since some effects can be usefull (look at Shocking Grasp [in case characters provoke attacks of opportunity when comming toward a creature instead of just leaving the reach, which is true to my tables, and I suppose to a vast majority of other tables as a homebrew rule] and Lighting Lure [So that nobody ever runs away from you]). Sentinel will punish someone for running away making said person loose the rest of his turn.

You also don't need to raise Str which, if you did want to raise you'd probably have been an eldrich knight instead. He is the magic using fighter, you are supposed to be more of a scholar.

Now if you want more versality, you always have pact of the tome, but if you were interested in versality so much, you could have been a wizard (or dip into warlock and then wizard)

If you're more interested in rp and went warlock just for the awesome fammiliar (sorry but it is mainly a fluff pact), you are not optimised. You could have had a fammiliar as a wizard or an animal companion as a ranger if you wanted it for tactical reasons, and get much more (versality for wizards/tactical advancment for ranger). You however have gained my respect as you are more interested in Role Play than optimisation, and I salute you for that. :)

If you wanted a Spell Striker (not the ygo card) you should really have considered Sorcerer with a 2 warlock dip.

I know it's cheese and all, almost a taboo in this forum to talk about it, but it's so much of a great option that it cannot NOT be mentioned.

[Rysto]

I really don't get what a WIS-based Shillelagh brings to a Warlock. Why not skip the feat and just pump DEX or STR instead?

[Arial Black]

Speaking as someone playing a Lock/fighter, wait until level 3, go Fighter 1/Lock 2 IN THAT ORDER, take a level of Fighter at 4 for a total of Fighter 2/Lock 2, and then Lock all the way.

My current CoS PC started as Ftr 1 and then went bladelock all the way. Getting a 2nd, 3rd or 4th level of fighter gets you good stuff (and I would choose battlemaster), but analysing it showed me that getting at least 9 levels of warlock before levels 2, 3 and 4 of fighter are the way to go.

I want to use armour of agathys and hex in nearly every fight, so the sooner I get 9 levels of warlock then the sooner I cast my spells with 5th level slots and the sooner I get 25 temporary hit points, do 25 cold damage when hit, and the sooner I only have to cast hex 1/day and leave a spell slot for something other than these two spells.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I really don't get what a WIS-based Shillelagh brings to a Warlock. Why not skip the feat and just pump DEX or STR instead?

Considering it costs you a feat and who knows how many ASI's, (which could be used for DEX instead) I wouldn't recommend this.

[Rysto]

I could sort of see taking it with Pact of the Tome, because then it's CHA-based, but then you have to contrive another way to get a second attack on the Warlock (5 levels of valour bard, maybe?). It seems unwieldy no matter how you do it.

I suppose Warlock 3/Paladin X would a decent staff and board option.

[Xetheral]

I could sort of see taking it with Pact of the Tome, because then it's CHA-based, but then you have to contrive another way to get a second attack on the Warlock (5 levels of valour bard, maybe?). It seems unwieldy no matter how you do it.

I suppose Warlock 3/Paladin X would a decent staff and board option.

Favored Soul Sorcerer is another good choice for Extra Attack.

[Asmotherion]

I really don't get what a WIS-based Shillelagh brings to a Warlock. Why not skip the feat and just pump DEX or STR instead?

It's not big but in my experiance I (and most people) prefear to fail a str saving throw than a wis saving throw (as in, take some damage/not resist a field control effect rather than becoming charmed/dominated/confused)

The whole thing was mostly about concept though. Like, it's more magical... or whatever...

If you can multiclass, bard 5 to get it as a cha cantrip and then perhaps pal 2 to get access to holly smite... and the concept is not bad either... like, a warlock who praises his patron with his songs and gets a fluff variation of holy smite, like "wild smite" "eldrich smite" "unholly smite" etc...

The only problem with this build is that it nukes strong, but is out of spell amo quickly.

[Smorgonoffz]

Late reply, i decided to wait till level 4 to rebuild the character into a bladelock.

Anyways what invocations should i take as a straight warlock into Cos:

Agonizing blast is a given/must

For my second invocation what should i take:

Devil sight or mage armor at will?

[EvilAnagram]

Would start at 1 fighter 5 warlock 20 STR, polearm master, level 3 spells and overall useful stuff and coming levels would all give something useful, 7 action surge, 8 lvl 1 cleric stuff and reaction damage, 9 pact feature, 10 lvl 4 warlock spells, 11 feat/ASI. So feels like it should be pretty fun to level feature wise. :)
Sounds like fun!

I've had a busy couple of weeks, so excuse my tardiness on responding to people.


This puzzles me. What has this got to do with TWF?
You only have proficiency with your pact weapon and some less than stellar weapons, so Dual Wielding isn't terribly helpful. On top of thay, you won't add Str, Dex, or Cha to the bonus action attack, so it's really adding a d6 of damage at most, and Hex will reduce the number of times you will utilize the TWF attack. Contrast that with Polearm Bladelock, who gets way more bang for his buck.


In short, I disagree with the gap between Fighter (Dark Blue) and Barbarian (Red). They should really be the same color.

This build is occasionally an underpowered Barbarian and occasionally a Warlock two levels weaker than it should be. A Fighter Bladelock is a decent melee caster all the time. Also, Action Surge is excellent both as a caster and as a melee warrior.


Sure, you might. That, however, wasn't the point to my understanding; the point was that Tomelock could mimic relatively well both Chainlock and Bladelock (in this case) - not as good as either, but close.

Great conversation, but I think I rated them well. The Tome itself provides solid options, but it alone cannot replicate the other two as completely as you argue. It provides many options, but no cantrip can make or break a concept.


Late reply, i decided to wait till level 4 to rebuild the character into a bladelock.

Anyways what invocations should i take as a straight warlock into Cos:

Agonizing blast is a given/must

For my second invocation what should i take:

Devil sight or mage armor at will?

Devil Sight is great, especially if your grab Darkness. Don't underestimate Repelling Blast, though. It's a surprisingly useful control tool.

[acidphoenix]

*slight bump*

Do you think you could add the Undying Light patron (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf) to the guide?

Also, well done with this- I used this to help a (multiclassed from bard, along with your bard guide) plan out feats and invocations and such for warlock levels.

mostly i did undying light because Night, Warlock of the Undying Light just sounded so silly and was so unfitting of her character that it would obviously emerge a great character (and also for searing flame and the +cha to fire spells but pff)

[EvilAnagram]

*slight bump*

Do you think you could add the Undying Light patron (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf) to the guide?

Also, well done with this- I used this to help a (multiclassed from bard, along with your bard guide) plan out feats and invocations and such for warlock levels.

mostly i did undying light because Night, Warlock of the Undying Light just sounded so silly and was so unfitting of her character that it would obviously emerge a great character (and also for searing flame and the +cha to fire spells but pff)

Yeah, I'm going to get around to it. Life is busy at the moment, but I might be able to get it done this week.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Yeah, I'm going to get around to it. Life is busy at the moment, but I might be able to get it done this week.

I'm looking forward to seeing that.

For the time being, are you holding off on adding the "Undying Light" Warlock Pact (from Unearthed Arcana) until it's published elsewhere?

[acidphoenix]

I'm looking forward to seeing that.

For the time being, are you holding off on adding the "Undying Light" Warlock Pact (from Unearthed Arcana) until it's published elsewhere?

You... do realize that that was what i just asked.. in the post the post you're responding to quoted, right? :smallcool:

[JakOfAllTirades]

You... do realize that that was what i just asked.. in the post the post you're responding to quoted, right? :smallcool:

I should have realized it was!

I was rushing out the door (on my way to a D&D game, LOL) as I caught up on this thread and I thought you were asking about the Undying pact from SCAG; I really should have taken the time to read more carefully! And I've always wondered if two pacts with such similar names would create any confusion. Thanks for that, WOTC.

The Undying pact from SCAG is already in this guide isn't it?

Yes, it would appear to be!

Never mind, then.

Senility is such a royal copper plated b***h....

[Kazumi]

Plane Shift: I mean, if you want to go to another plane, this is the spell to take. If you don't want to go to another plane, I advise against taking this.

Making my first post in forever to point out that Plane Shift is an extremely effective combat spell. Your target has to make a charisma save or take an unplanned vacation to the elemental plane of fire or the Abyssal Layer of Really just an Excessive Amount of Torture. And it's a permanent effect, they have to make their own way back. Meaning they usually don't come back. It's a two roll spell, sure (Melee spell attack and charisma save), but it's really the closest thing to a proper save-or-die in 5e. Its ability to completely eliminate an enemy and its utility combine to make it a truly excellent spell, even in a 7th level slot. Just don't use it on anyone with plot armor thick enough to actually crawl out of whatever pit you stuff them in.

[Millstone85]

Plane Shift: I mean, if you want to go to another plane, this is the spell to take. If you don't want to go to another plane, I advise against taking this.Making my first post in forever to point out that Plane Shift is an extremely effective combat spell. Your target has to make a charisma save or take an unplanned vacation to the elemental plane of fire or the Abyssal Layer of Really just an Excessive Amount of Torture. And it's a permanent effect, they have to make their own way back. Meaning they usually don't come back. It's a two roll spell, sure (Melee spell attack and charisma save), but it's really the closest thing to a proper save-or-die in 5e. Its ability to completely eliminate an enemy and its utility combine to make it a truly excellent spell, even in a 7th level slot. Just don't use it on anyone with plot armor thick enough to actually crawl out of whatever pit you stuff them in.It is a pretty cool attack. And it also seems to me that a plane shift arcanum would make your party one day away from any location within your own plane.

I guess it really depends on how difficult it is to find a 250 gp fork attuned to a plane.

[Feuerphoenix]

I did not quite get the point of expended spell lists from your patron. Does that mean, you have these spells prepared, or that you also may choose spells from this list?

[Gastronomie]

I did not quite get the point of expended spell lists from your patron. Does that mean, you have these spells prepared, or that you also may choose spells from this list?You may also choose spells from this list.

Some are really good choices. Others are not.

[Feuerphoenix]

Too bad :( a paladin knows more spells than a full caster...modern times :P

[JumboWheat01]

Too bad :( a paladin knows more spells than a full caster...modern times :P

They're probably trying to make up for all those "Lawful Stupid" times that caused a Paladin to no longer be a paladin back in the day.

If Warlocks got all their spells from their patron like how divine classes get theirs from domains, oaths and lands, it would be sweet. But I suppose that's a "divine class perk." The jerks.

[BladeWing81]

[CENTER]
Pact Boons
Pact of the Blade[/COLOR]: You get a magical weapon that can never be taken away from you, and you always get to be proficient with it. If you find a magic weapon, you can meditate on it and be proficient with it, too. At the cost of Invocations, you can be pretty freaking nasty in melee, but you will suffer from fairly weak defenses. At later levels, you can deal a whopping +14 damage per attack using Hex.
How do you get the +14 Damage per attack with hex??

[Aett_Thorn]

How do you get the +14 Damage per attack with hex??

I think that this is total bonus, not just due to Hex. With the right Invocations, you'll do Weapon Damage + Str/Dex bonus (5) + Cha bonus (5) + Hex (1d6). So basically, Weapon damage +10 + 3.5 average. Close enough to +14.

[EvilAnagram]

Yes, the +14 included all other modifiers.


It is a pretty cool attack. And it also seems to me that a plane shift arcanum would make your party one day away from any location within your own plane.

I guess it really depends on how difficult it is to find a 250 gp fork attuned to a plane.

The fork was probably the biggest factor in my rating. Depending on the DM, it could be an easy write-off or a major quest in and of itself.

[Millstone85]

The fork was probably the biggest factor in my rating. Depending on the DM, it could be an easy write-off or a major quest in and of itself.I would make it a quest in line with the price of the fork. Something like:
1) Find a humanoid with a hereditary attunement to the desired plane (an elf for the Feywild, an air genasi for the Plane of Air...) and buy some of their blood for 100 gp.
2) Find someone with proficiency in tinker's tools and pay them 75 gp to make a fork.
3) Find someone with proficiency in alchemist's supplies and pay them 75 gp to make a potion.
4) Wait 15 days for your orders to be completed.
5) Bathe the fork in the blood and the potion for 1 hour.
6) The fork is ready to be used with the plane shift spell.

[tieren]

I could sort of see taking it with Pact of the Tome, because then it's CHA-based, but then you have to contrive another way to get a second attack on the Warlock (5 levels of valour bard, maybe?). It seems unwieldy no matter how you do it.

I suppose Warlock 3/Paladin X would a decent staff and board option.

I'm playing a fey knight OotA paladin/fey patron warlock. Its a pretty deep MC 8/12, so I'm picking up extra attack and fighting style and auras from paladin.

When it comes to the warlock side and which pact to take tome wins hands down. Cha based attack stat from shillelagh lets me max my attack and casting stat (Cha) which I wouldn't have been able to accomplish with Str and Cha as a gnome, I can still grab a familiar with the ritual invocation with the book (as well any other ritual(s)). Thirsting blade is mooted because I already have extra attack and life drinker is nothing compared to my smites.

I'm a gnome using a quaterstaff like a lance while I ride around on my find steed medium sized mount. Its fun.

[acidphoenix]

*slight bump*

Do you think you could add the Undying Light patron (https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/02_UA_Underdark_Characters.pdf) to the guide?

Also, well done with this- I used this to help a (multiclassed from bard, along with your bard guide) plan out feats and invocations and such for warlock levels.

mostly i did undying light because Night, Warlock of the Undying Light just sounded so silly and was so unfitting of her character that it would obviously emerge a great character (and also for searing flame and the +cha to fire spells but pff)

bump x reminder

[ATHATH]

Does suggesting a rating-revision count as thread-necromancy? If so, I'm sorry.

I'd like to contest your current rating of Create Thrall; it should be much higher. Create Thrall doesn't allow the target to make a save to resist it; it merely requires that your target is incapacitated for long enough for your party's Warlock to get an action off. Nonlethal damage and properly timed nets/Entangles can easily set that condition up. There also appears to be no limit to the number of thralls that you can have. Since quite a few BBEG's and other powerful NPC's are Humanoids, you can accumulate a menagerie of powerful beings that are at your beck and call. Sure, some well-placed Remove Curses can take some of them out, but you can safely keep some decently powerful Wizards around if you:
1. Force them to place a Contingent Plane Shift upon themselves that will teleport them to your private Demiplane if they ever stop being your thralls.
2. Keep their Spellbooks on your person at all times, and guard them whenever they have to use them.
3. Ensure that your pet Wizards never keep Plane Shift prepared.

[SharkForce]

Does suggesting a rating-revision count as thread-necromancy? If so, I'm sorry.

I'd like to contest your current rating of Create Thrall; it should be much higher. Create Thrall doesn't allow the target to make a save to resist it; it merely requires that your target is incapacitated for long enough for your party's Warlock to get an action off. Nonlethal damage and properly timed nets/Entangles can easily set that condition up. There also appears to be no limit to the number of thralls that you can have. Since quite a few BBEG's and other powerful NPC's are Humanoids, you can accumulate a menagerie of powerful beings that are at your beck and call. Sure, some well-placed Remove Curses can take some of them out, but you can safely keep some decently powerful Wizards around if you:
1. Force them to place a Contingent Plane Shift upon themselves that will teleport them to your private Demiplane if they ever stop being your thralls.
2. Keep their Spellbooks on your person at all times, and guard them whenever they have to use them.
3. Ensure that your pet Wizards never keep Plane Shift prepared.

- incapacitated is a specific status. nets and entangle don't inflict it.
- there is actually a very apparent limit on the number of thralls you can have. the duration ends if you use it again, which means that limit is one.
- create thrall doesn't let you force anyone to do anything. it charms them (which gives you advantage on checks like diplomacy and intimidate, and prevents them from attacking you), and gives you the ability to communicate with them anywhere on the same plane. that is all. despite the name, create thrall does not in fact allow you to order anyone to do anything.

it is a terrible ability, and it is properly rated as a terrible ability.

[ATHATH]

- incapacitated is a specific status. nets and entangle don't inflict it.
- there is actually a very apparent limit on the number of thralls you can have. the duration ends if you use it again, which means that limit is one.
- create thrall doesn't let you force anyone to do anything. it charms them (which gives you advantage on checks like diplomacy and intimidate, and prevents them from attacking you), and gives you the ability to communicate with them anywhere on the same plane. that is all. despite the name, create thrall does not in fact allow you to order anyone to do anything.

it is a terrible ability, and it is properly rated as a terrible ability.
Oh. Never mind, then.

By the way, there's another Warlock patron that you didn't mention from one of the UA's. It's from the modern one, and it's called the Ghost in the Machine.

Would it be too much trouble to add a list of Ritual spells that Warlocks can cast with the upgraded Book of Shadows to the guide?

[SharkForce]

Oh. Never mind, then.

By the way, there's another Warlock patron that you didn't mention from one of the UA's. It's from the modern one, and it's called the Ghost in the Machine.

Would it be too much trouble to add a list of Ritual spells that Warlocks can cast with the upgraded Book of Shadows to the guide?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?365822-Alphabetical-list-of-ritual-spells

there are several guides on the net for ritual spells. the above is simply a list, but should you want to know more, just look up "D&D 5e ritual guide" and you'll find something.

[Belac93]

By the way, there's another Warlock patron that you didn't mention from one of the UA's. It's from the modern one, and it's called the Ghost in the Machine.

Also, the Seeker from this month's UA.

[ATHATH]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?365822-Alphabetical-list-of-ritual-spells

there are several guides on the net for ritual spells. the above is simply a list, but should you want to know more, just look up "D&D 5e ritual guide" and you'll find something.
Actually, most of the lists are bare-bones and only include the rituals in the PHB. An updated one would be useful.

[borg286]

Please make a section for warlocks wanting to do darkness + devil's sight tactic. Please note how hit chances from ranges and melee attacks from allies are unaffected by your darkness. Opportunity attacks fail for both sides. This encourages you to take sentinel to keep put. Discuss ways of conveying the location of foes you see to your allies. Darkness also flat out stops 90% of targeted spells. This is both good and bad.

[Tikkun]

It appears to me--noob to 5e, that I am--that there is a significant amount of difficulty in setting out "rules" for the use of the Darkness spell and the Devil's Sight incantation. It appears that the only consensus can be that it is left up to each individual DM to set the parameters of the effectiveness and application of the spell.

In reading the posts on GitP, Enworld and Reddit sub forums, one can clearly see no real agreement. Instead there seems to be a varying standard from the snippets of PHB, errata and Sage Advice comments that, more often than not, obfuscates any real answer. In the final analysis it appears to be left up to the DM with a host of "educated" commentary offering no real solution. If you can not agree on exactly what the Darkness spell "does", you can not really determine all the other factors.

I would be most interested in being shown a solution to that question. Additionally, I have read that some people employ the darkness/devil's sight combination alongside Pact of the Blade--I am interested in how it is used in terms of both feats taken and manner/method of how it is actually employed on the battlefield ( in truth, I have been wrestling with either a fighter1-4/warlock 16-19 or warlock 16/sorcerer 4 combination for a few weeks now).

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[Sabeta]

Darkness
Magical darkness spreads from a point you choose within range to fill a 15-foot-radius sphere for the duration. The darkness spreads around corners. A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.

Vision
A given area might be lightly or heavily obscured. In a Lightly Obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.
A Heavily Obscured area - such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage - blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition.
Errata: a heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.

Light
Bright Light lets most creatures see normally. Even gloomy days provide bright light, as do torches, lanterns, fires, and other sources of Illumination within a specific radius
Dim Light, also called shadows creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of light and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also count as dim light. A bright full moon might bathe the land in dim light.
Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit nights), in the confines of an unlit dungeon, or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness.

Blinded
A blinded creature can't see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage.


So then, this establishes a few things. The first, is that Darkness creates an area of Heavy Obscurement / Darkness. Attempting to see inside the darkness without the Devil's Sight Invocation or another source of Magical vision is impossible, and therefore any attempts to hit creatures inside the Darkness will have disadvantage. If you have True Sight then you'll have advantage on everyone inside, but any allies who don't will be disadvantaged. Your allies can still attack, and still be attacked, but everyone without some form of True Sight will have disadvantage doing so. Let's combine this with Hiding.

Hiding
You can't hide from a creature that can see you (Errata: The question isn't whether a creature can see you when you're hiding. The question is whether it can see you clearly.), and if you make a loud noise you give away your position. An invisible creature can't be seen, so it can always try to hide.

Since you automatically fail any ability checks that rely on sight the creature is by all means invisible to you, and can therefore easily make attempts to hide; however this gets compared with your Passive Perception. Since there's Darkness in the way, you have disadvantage on Passive Perception, which takes a -5 penalty. You still have a chance of finding a hidden creature, but it's much harder. Obviously, someone with Devil's Sight will easily see the hiding creature, and can therefore call out its location to any allies also in the darkness. Alternatively, you can roll Perception in order to try and find the creature outside of passive; since you can't see you still have Disadvantage, but by picking up on a creature's smell, heavy breathing, or perhaps even gut intuition you'll still have a chance to find it.

In fact, if you're the only one who can see in Darkness, then it's up to you to optimize your party more than the enemy can in the same situation. Knocking an enemy prone will grant melee attackers advantage, and that negates the Disadvantage they normally had. (While not hurting your ranged attackers any more than they already were) Having an ally Paladin or Cleric cast Bless will help mitigate the Disadvantage of Darkness, and there are other ways to gain Advantage as a Ranged attacker.

tldr: I couldn't find any inconsistencies with the way Darkness and Vision works. The rules are fairly scattered throughout the PHB and required two Erratas to convey with 100% clarity, but it seems fairly clear what you can and can't do under the influence of Heavy Obscurement.

[Godshoe]

Agonizing Blast: Eldritch Blast hits harder, and since it's on a hit, it can be up to +20 damage in a single turn.
+20 sounds cool, but could you please explain how to get this?

[CaptAl]

+20 sounds cool, but could you please explain how to get this?

20 Cha nets you a +5 to damage. Level 17 as a caster with Eldritch blast nets you 4 attacks. So, 4(d10+5) if you hit with all 4 blasts with agonizing blast invocation.

[Draco4472]

Having read this guide, I am now considering having my Storm Sorcerer I've been playing recently sell his soul to a Balor. What could possibly go wrong?

[Nertak]

Great guide. Thanks for taking the time to make it.

One thing I noticed is for 3rd level spells for remove curse you say "Usually, I let the Druid or Cleric prepare this the day after someone gets curse, then use it. In the absence of this option, it's a pretty good option." Druids cannot learn Remove Curse. At least not through normal means.

[EvilAnagram]

Great guide. Thanks for taking the time to make it.

One thing I noticed is for 3rd level spells for remove curse you say "Usually, I let the Druid or Cleric prepare this the day after someone gets curse, then use it. In the absence of this option, it's a pretty good option." Druids cannot learn Remove Curse. At least not through normal means.

You are correct. Changed it.

[tieren]

With the errata clarifying you can take cantrips from multiple lists with the pact of the tome boon, I would appreciate a more detailed analysis of the available cantrips across the game.

[Nertak]

Edit: I found my mistake so nm. Is there a way I can delete this post?

[EvilAnagram]

With the errata clarifying you can take cantrips from multiple lists with the pact of the tome boon, I would appreciate a more detailed analysis of the available cantrips across the game.

I was not aware of this errata. IT doesn't actually alter my interpretation, but I suppose I'll rate the game's cantrips at some point over the next week.

[Citan]

I was not aware of this errata. IT doesn't actually alter my interpretation, but I suppose I'll rate the game's cantrips at some point over the next week.
Would you accept suggestions? ;)


Acid Splash, Firebolt, Poison Spray: usually not a good choice because of damage types, EB is better. Only for fluff or if you really want a cantrip that targets a particular save / has a particular damage type for whatever reason.

Ray of Frost, Chill Touch, Vicious Mockery, Frostbite: any of those can be a decent choice to complement EB is you want to get "soft condition" cantrips to help allies.

Thunderclap: would have been great with a push or prone effect. As is, its requirements make it improper for most Warlocks (except a Bladelock built as a tank maybe).

Shocking Grasp: good choice in any situation because of the disengage effect in melee. Great to have, unless you have access to SCAG cantrips AND a decent attack stat.

Produce Flame: true benefit of this is that you can use it either as a poorsman Light or a poorsman Firebolt. Still, there are probably too many better cantrips, unless you are an Undying Light Warlock.

Sacred Flame: main benefit is radiant damage, but force is even less often resisted. Secondary is targeting DEX, but is it enough? Unless you are an Undying Light Warlock, you can do without it.

Create Bonfire: same, or maybe worse because it uses your concentration and a Warlock usually has a good spell in concentration already. Could make do for some builds that blow slots on non-concentration though, to apply a bit of terrain control.

Magic Stone: strictly worse than using EB.

Thorn Whip: its damage will be lesser than EB, that's for sure. Main reason to use it would be to get a complement to Repelling Blast, so you can pull or push enemies as required.
Can be a pretty decent choice as long as you get some ideas on how to put it to good use. ;)

Shillelagh: obviously a nice one, allows you to use your CHA instead of STR, but limits to quarterstaff. But since quarterstaffs can be focus (AFAIK), not so bad heh? ;)

Mage Hand, Mold Earth, Shape Water, Gust, Minor Illusion, Guidance: all great utility cantrips with pleny of uses.

My personal "default" choices:
Shillelagh or Shocking Grasp (to cover melee option, depending on SCAG cantrips availability).
Thorn Whip (because I love it).
Mold Earth or Minor Illusion (depending on setting and party, both are great).

[MeeposFire]

I always find the love for shillelagh to be puzzling. Without a means to get more damage it does not keep up naturally. In order to make it keep up you have to get extra attack or use an additional cantrip to deal that extra damage. I personally think 2 catnrips is a bit much of an investment for something you do not plan on using often. I would think for the vast majority of warlocks you get more out of picking something like shocking grasp and using the other cantrip choice for something with some utility.

Using your spell casting stat is fine and all but even with the SCAG cantrips a dagger with a warlocks typical dex score is more than fine. You are not going to notice the damage difference and the accuracy eventually match or be very close.

[bardo]

I always find the love for shillelagh to be puzzling.

Don't forget the Shillelagh stick counts as a magical weapon for bypassing resistances. It's a good plan B.

Bardo.

[MeeposFire]

Don't forget the Shillelagh stick counts as a magical weapon for bypassing resistances. It's a good plan B.

Bardo.

That does not change much. The difference between magic and non magic damage for that warlock is on average 4.5 damage it is something though I do not think it is worth the cost of two cantrips. You could have just taken shocking grasp (which lets you get out of melee), taken crossbow expert and just use EB in melee, or found a +1 dagger (which is relatively common as treasure goes).

It is an expensive plan B for something that you believe is to be rare. Consider as you level the damage that resistance applies to becomes smaller and smaller and the chances of you not having a magical weapon also gets smaller and smaller. If this is trully an emergency plan shocking grasp is probably enough or just booming blade.

You are also discounting the fact that using that spell also uses your bonus action that round and prevents you from using a non-cantrip that round.

[Rysto]

You are also discounting the fact that using that spell also uses your bonus action that round and prevents you from using a non-cantrip that round.

Considering that cantrip is likely going to be BB/GFB anyway, I'm not sure that I see the issue.

[MeeposFire]

Considering that cantrip is likely going to be BB/GFB anyway, I'm not sure that I see the issue.

More often than not it won't be but it does mean he is committed. The big one is wasting a cantrip on what you are planning to be a corner case and only getting a slight boost at best from it.

[SharkForce]

cantrips are not really as high-value on a tome-lock as they might otherwise be. you already get your own cantrips from being a warlock, then you get to add 3 more on top of that, and if others in your party already have cantrips of their own that often narrows down the pool of what you're likely to want even further.

so honestly, investing a couple of cantrips for emergency melee situations... it's not wonderful, but it isn't that bad either. especially if you'd rather invest in con than boost dex more... as a counter-example to your crossbow expert feat, you could also pick up the moderately armoured feat, and maybe even warcaster (you probably sort of wanted warcaster anyways, and moderately armoured just bumps the value even higher). now your AC is better than it would have been if you had put those 2 ASIs into dex, you still got a +1 to a physical attribute, and your opportunity attacks can be pretty danged nice too.

[MeeposFire]

cantrips are not really as high-value on a tome-lock as they might otherwise be. you already get your own cantrips from being a warlock, then you get to add 3 more on top of that, and if others in your party already have cantrips of their own that often narrows down the pool of what you're likely to want even further.

so honestly, investing a couple of cantrips for emergency melee situations... it's not wonderful, but it isn't that bad either. especially if you'd rather invest in con than boost dex more... as a counter-example to your crossbow expert feat, you could also pick up the moderately armoured feat, and maybe even warcaster (you probably sort of wanted warcaster anyways, and moderately armoured just bumps the value even higher). now your AC is better than it would have been if you had put those 2 ASIs into dex, you still got a +1 to a physical attribute, and your opportunity attacks can be pretty danged nice too.

Sounds like you are saying it is OK not great. I can honestly live with that.

[Citan]

That does not change much. The difference between magic and non magic damage for that warlock is on average 4.5 damage it is something though I do not think it is worth the cost of two cantrips. You could have just taken shocking grasp (which lets you get out of melee), taken crossbow expert and just use EB in melee, or found a +1 dagger (which is relatively common as treasure goes).

It is an expensive plan B for something that you believe is to be rare. Consider as you level the damage that resistance applies to becomes smaller and smaller and the chances of you not having a magical weapon also gets smaller and smaller. If this is trully an emergency plan shocking grasp is probably enough or just booming blade.

You are also discounting the fact that using that spell also uses your bonus action that round and prevents you from using a non-cantrip that round.
For the action cost, you could do the same as with Guidance with a lenient DM (reactivate it every time).
But I agree with you, I usually take Shocking Grasp. Or at least that was my goto plan before SCAG for any caster.

But you seem to forget that Booming Blade, since requiring a weapon attack, will normally uses your STR/DEX modifier. And that's the thing: a caster will usually hold a focus and nothing else (because he needs hand free for somatic components, unless I really didn't understand something basic since the beginnings of 5e XD).

Shocking Grasp was good for those, perfect even. And the fact it prevents any bonus action attack because it's a spell attack was not important, since casters are not good good fighters.

Now, if you want to use Booming Blade or GreenFlame Blade because you build a gish of any kind...
a) you wield a "normal" weapon in your main hand and a focus in the other. > Now you have to micromanage your weapon with the free (un)sheathe interaction between turns.
Granted, a Warlock has few slots. But EB has somatic components. So you still get the problem, unless you grab Warcaster.
It's not a big problem per se as long as you are smart about it, but will still be annoying in some occasions.
b) you wield only a normal weapon in your main hand, and no focus. Problem solved for EB blasting, not for spells.
And whatever happens, you still want to max your attack stat because if you don't land a hit, it's useless.
And whatever happens, if you use Booming Blade or GFB, you get no bonus action attack.
And Shocking Grasp does not allow you to profit from magical weapons (although IIRC there are very few magical quarterstaffs?).

Before, Shillelagh was already good for those who wanted to get a good melee option without having to bump attack stat but keep options opened (dual-wielding with related feat, or Polearm Master for bonus action + Sentinel), with added benefit of being "just magical damage".
Now it's even better because you get extra damage and rider.

Agreed though that for most casters that have access to it, Shillelagh is lesser than Shocking Grasp unless you aim for at least 3 weapon attacks per turn or use one of those SCAG cantrips.

[Sabeta]

Shillelagh isn't for all Warlocks, really. If you're forced into a Melee Situation you're probably better off casting Darkness on that nice little broach that's fastened to your cape and then running away (ideally outside the reach of your party) so that you can start blasting from inside your bubble. Hey, you're just like the Monster from OotS! Where Shillelagh really shines though is with the Polearm Master Feat.

1d8+CHA + 1d4+CHA is pretty nice damage. Oh, but you also get to add 1d8+CHA if somebody enters your reach, so that's nice too. Oh, and it can be done 1-handed so now you're equipped with a Shield for +2 AC, effectively making you better than a Greatsword now. Act now, and you can throw in 2 levels of Fighter for an Action Surge and the Dueling Fighting Style to add +4 damage (or more) every turn. A shame that's not compatible with Bladepact, but it works wonders as a 3-level dip for Paladins. Bonus Points, your Find Familiar scouted things out for you and told you when to precast Shillelagh so there isn't even a turn wasted in combat.

I think the average Warlock would prefer Booming Blade for the ability to more easily disengage, and then any other Cantrips they wanted, such as Guidance.

tldr: I think it's a great cantrip, just not so much for the main class we're talking about.

Also, I was under the impression that a Focus could be used for Somatic as well. You know, just twirl it around or whatever.

[Citan]

I think the average Warlock would prefer Booming BladeShocking Grasp for the ability to more easily disengage, and then any other Cantrips they wanted, such as Guidance.

Fixed that for you (Booming Blade prevents the creature to move, but still allows it to use OA on you. ;) It's SG that deprives it of any reaction, allowing you -and others- to move away freely).

[tieren]

I think an alternative to EB that targets a save instead of using an attack roll could be a good idea. That got me thinking about vicious mockery or frostbite.

I intend to get a familiar with the tome once I get the invocation for rituals, and it looks like shocking grasp is only cantrip deliverable by familiar.

Beyond that I'd like to hear more about the utility of other cantrip like mold earth, shape water, or spare the dying.

[Millstone85]

I think an alternative to EB that targets a save instead of using an attack roll could be a good idea. That got me thinking about vicious mockery or frostbite.On that note, why the dislike for poison spray?

[MeeposFire]

On that note, why the dislike for poison spray?

Poison is the most resisted damage type in the game with also the most creatures immune to it.

[SharkForce]

Poison is the most resisted damage type in the game with also the most creatures immune to it.

also, it is short range, and does absolutely nothing on a passed save, and the save is based on an attribute that most enemies will be at least somewhat good at.

[Millstone85]

it is short rangeRight where you need a cantrip without an attack roll (or with a melee one).


does absolutely nothing on a passed saveIs there a cantrip that does?


Poison is the most resisted damage type in the game with also the most creatures immune to it.
the save is based on an attribute that most enemies will be at least somewhat good at.Ah, okay. Since I have no idea how the DM does his monster cuisine, I tend to select things on the assumption that we will be fighting humans.

[tieren]

My personal bias, but poison seems like something a bad guy would use.

I like the thought of vicious mockery as it fits in with the high charisma, and of course the psychic damage could be handy against a barbarian.

[SharkForce]

Right where you need a cantrip without an attack roll (or with a melee one).

Is there a cantrip that does?

Ah, okay. Since I have no idea how the DM does his monster cuisine, I tend to select things on the assumption that we will be fighting humans.

you will be fighting humans. you'll also be fighting lots and lots of things that are not humans. ultimately, you will probably wind up fighting far more not-humans than humans, in fact.

that said, even amongst humans you don't find much of anything with a negative con modifier, and in fact far more of them have a positive con modifier than don't. amongst humanoid NPC stat blocks, save proficiencies are relatively rare, but con is one of the more common. amongst humanoids, dwarves all get poison damage resistance *and* advantage on saves against it, and so do stout halflings... in comparison, only one other damage type is resisted at all by humanoids, by a much rarer type of humanoid, and they don't also get advantage on saves against it on top of resistance to the damage.

when you look at other creatures, the picture gets even bleaker for poison damage.

so, even if you're looking at mostly humans and similar, poison damage doesn't look very good.

(as far as cantrips that do something on a successful save, acid splash targets dex - which is also not commonly a bad attribute for humanoids, but proficiency in the saves is a bit more rare - but can hit two targets, which means probably 2 failed saves are required for nothing to happen. there are also other save-based AoE cantrips which likewise will often require multiple failed saves before they do nothing. create bonfire creates a bonfire whether the target makes a save or not, and thus offers a zone of control. obviously, multiple creatures can make their saves, so most of those cantrips still have a chance of nothing happening, but it is a much lower chance generally speaking).

basically, poison spray has a *lot* of disadvantages. if it had fewer of those disadvantages, it would be better. but when you pile up all of those disadvantages, it just doesn't look nearly as good.

[CaptainSarathai]

Agreed though that for most casters that have access to it, Shillelagh is lesser than Shocking Grasp unless you aim for at least 3 weapon attacks per turn or use one of those SCAG cantrips.


Shillelagh isn't for all Warlocks, really. If you're forced into a Melee Situation you're probably better off casting Darkness on that nice little broach that's fastened to your cape and then running away (ideally outside the reach of your party) so that you can start blasting from inside your bubble. Hey, you're just like the Monster from OotS! Where Shillelagh really shines though is with the Polearm Master Feat.

1d8+CHA + 1d4+CHA is pretty nice damage. Oh, but you also get to add 1d8+CHA if somebody enters your reach, so that's nice too. Oh, and it can be done 1-handed so now you're equipped with a Shield for +2 AC, effectively making you better than a Greatsword now. Act now, and you can throw in 2 levels of Fighter for an Action Surge and the Dueling Fighting Style to add +4 damage (or more) every turn. A shame that's not compatible with Bladepact, but it works wonders as a 3-level dip for Paladins. Bonus Points, your Find Familiar scouted things out for you and told you when to precast Shillelagh so there isn't even a turn wasted in combat.

In my experience, Shillelagh is good only for Gish-locks. The SCAG cantrips really do more to replace BladeLock. Yes, you are losing a bit of damage from Life Drinker, but you are freeing up Cantrips and getting the Tome bonuses instead of the [very lackluster] ability to summon a weapon.

What I find makes Shillelagh most compelling, is the knowledge that any decent GishLock has to MultiClass, but Shillelagh+SCAG actually works incredibly well with Sorcerer and keeps you from being MAD. This is compacted; if you take Draconic Bloodline, at 6th level you add Cha to a damage type. Choose Lightning and now you're essentially grabbing Life Drinker 3 levels early.
Sorcerer also gives you eventual access to Haste, which is extremely good when added in with Booming Blade.

Consider:
12th level Life Drinker BladeLock with a 1-hand weapon. 3ASIs for Attack20, Cha18.
2d8+2Ability+2*Cha = 27
+Hex = 34

12th level Warlock4, Sorcerer8 with Shillelagh, SCAG, Cha to Lightning. 3ASIs for Cha20 and Warcaster.
3d8+2*Cha = 23.5
+Quicken/Twin = 47
+Hex = 27/54
OR
+Haste = 33/56.5

However, if you're running Haste, you have an extra option which makes Booming Blade even more powerful: you can Disengage with that free action. Now you've stranded 1-2 enemies with the BB rider-damage.

You also have the ability to Quciken EB if you find yourself out of melee range, or want to literally swing swords and throw spells at the same time.

[tieren]

Hex and haste are both concentration spells.

[CaptainSarathai]

Hex and haste are both concentration spells.

Yeah, that's why I didn't add them both together. Maybe I was unclear:
The first number before the slash is assuming you just use BB once, the second number assumes you've cast it twice (Quicken or Twin).
The third attack from Haste is D8+5, which is better than the +2d6 from Hex.

So that's "+Hex OR +Haste"

Haste also has the advantage of giving you +2AC and advantage to Dex. A Shillelagh SorcLock build is far better than a straight BladeLock, and possibly a Fighter BladeLock. With Haste on top of Draconic, your AC is basically 15+Dex, and Charisma is your only attack stat so you can safely pump Con to the ceiling.

[Saggo]

In my experience, Shillelagh is good only for Gish-locks. The SCAG cantrips really do more to replace BladeLock. Yes, you are losing a bit of damage from Life Drinker, but you are freeing up Cantrips and getting the Tome bonuses instead of the [very lackluster] ability to summon a weapon.

A PAM/GWM Bladelock can easily outpace the DPR a melee Tomelock will do. Neither is lackluster, Tomelock and Bladelock just do melee with different focuses.

[CaptainSarathai]

A PAM/GWM Bladelock can easily outpace the DPR a melee Tomelock will do. Neither is lackluster, Tomelock and Bladelock just do melee with different focuses.

And they are running Strength.
Plus Con for concentration and HitPoints
Plus Dex for AC unless they MC Fighter (which is fair, I grant)
Plus Cha if they want a decent Eldritch Blast and Life Drinker
Plus using 1-2 Feats
Plus 2 Invocations

They have:
3 less cantrips
No ritual casting, meaning no Familiar

So at 12th level a GWM BladeLock has 2ASIs +1 Feat for Str20, Cha16.
6d6+36 = 57
OR
PAM = 2d10+1d4+3d6+24 = 48
OR
Str18, GWM+PAM = 2d10+1d4+3d6+54 = 78

So really, the SorLock focusing on Haste does equally well, until you take both GWM and PAM, and swing with a -1 to hit. You pretty much have to be a Dragonborn or VuMan to get the Str16, Cha16 to start. VuMan would give a bonus feat to free another ASI to pump Str/Cha, for +4/+6 to damage. With VuMan you have [8/15], [10/14], or [12/13] to spend on Con/Dex. Unless you Multiclass, your AC is gonna suck, and even with MC armor, you only have +2 for Con.

At 19th level all you've gained are 2 more ASIs, so VuMan has Str20, Cha20, Con15 for a max of 96 damage. Assuming they went Fighter1, they could have a max AC of 18.
A VuMan SorcLock has Cha20, Dex20, Con16 does 70.5 damage, and has a max AC of 18+2(haste).

None of this is counting secondary damage of Booming Blade either. Disengaging rather than attacking with Haste, it's not terribly hard to trigger.

And the kicker:
SorcLock4 can do the same thing by giving up 1ASI for a level in Fighter, using a Str weapon instead of Shillelagh, and Quicken/Twin SCAG cantrips, plus Haste, as Haste can be used to replicate the "third attack" from PAM, except Haste allows the full weapon damage rather than a d4.
At 20th level that's Str20, Cha18, Con16, Dex10, VuMan GWM. AC18+2 Haste
6d6+8d8+58 = 115
Drop Cha again and you can take Warcaster. There's also plenty of room for levels of Fighter or Warlock - you only need Sorc6, really, for the +Cha to damage, Haste, and Metamagic. Theoretically, you could drop Warlock from the build altogether, but that's no fun.

TL:DR - TomeLock with SCAG is a more well-rounded Gish than a BladeLock, with less investment. If you're willing to Multiclass, BladeLock becomes utterly worthless.

[SharkForce]

of course, if you're rolling for stats and you get stupidly amazing rolls, actual bladelock as opposed to discount bladelock is pretty nuts. but yeah, the main benefit to the tomelock version is that it has a pretty low cost to be quite good at melee, while the bladelock has an extremely high cost to be a little bit better.

[CaptainSarathai]

of course, if you're rolling for stats and you get stupidly amazing rolls, actual bladelock as opposed to discount bladelock is pretty nuts. but yeah, the main benefit to the tomelock version is that it has a pretty low cost to be quite good at melee, while the bladelock has an extremely high cost to be a little bit better.

See the bottom of my post. If you're getting awesome rolls, you're still better off using SCAG and may as well go Tome.

[Saggo]

TL:DR - TomeLock with SCAG is a more well-rounded Gish than a BladeLock, with less investment. If you're willing to Multiclass, BladeLock becomes utterly worthless.

The math has been done extensively for Bladelock and even quicken SCAG builds, I don't see the need to repeat it. If you cherry pick levels and rounds, Quickened SCAG can look very good, but since it takes resources to Quicken you're not doing it every turn (especially the early levels) and the large boosts of DPR will average out over an adventuring day. You'll also lose access to at least 1 level of Mystic Arcanum if you take that many levels in Sorcerer. Haste also takes a full turn and you can't quicken BB/GFB the turn you Haste, so every combat a full turn is being taken. Darkness builds would lose a full turn, that's true, but you'll get advantage in return (combines very well with GWM, of course) and can in effect disengage.

So again, neither is lackluster, they just approach melee differently.

[Waazraath]

TL:DR - TomeLock with SCAG is a more well-rounded Gish than a BladeLock, with less investment. If you're willing to Multiclass, BladeLock becomes utterly worthless.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. You have an opinion (that's fine), and than you cherry pick abilities and compare unequal builds to support that opinion. And that's not. Let's look at some things you wrote.



This is compacted; if you take Draconic Bloodline, at 6th level you add Cha to a damage type. Choose Lightning and now you're essentially grabbing Life Drinker 3 levels early.
Sorcerer also gives you eventual access to Haste, which is extremely good when added in with Booming Blade.

1) No, you don't, because booming blade doesn't do lightning damage, but thunder damage. So it doesn't do anything, because there isn't a dragon ancestor with thunder damage. And
2) the good thing about life drinker is that it works on every attack. Booming blade gives 1 attack, with sorcerer mabye 2 few times/day if you choose quicken. On a polearm master build, a bladelock can get quite reliable 4 attacks per round (2 normal, 1 bonus, 1 reaction); 3 or 4 extra damage with life drinker becomes 12 or 16 damage, much more than draconic bloodline would give if it would work (which it doesn't). Same goes for a 2wf build.




Consider:
12th level Life Drinker BladeLock with a 1-hand weapon. 3ASIs for Attack20, Cha18.
2d8+2Ability+2*Cha = 27
+Hex = 34

12th level Warlock4, Sorcerer8 with Shillelagh, SCAG, Cha to Lightning. 3ASIs for Cha20 and Warcaster.
3d8+2*Cha = 23.5
+Quicken/Twin = 47
+Hex = 27/54
OR
+Haste = 33/56.5


Wait, sorcerer 8??? I thought we were comparing warlock builds, in the warlock guide? But if you include multiclass, why use a warlock 12 than to compare it with? While everybody knows that they become much stronger with 1, 2 or 3 levels of fighter or 2 levels of paladin. Try to compare it with a fighter 3 / warlock 9 polearm master build - it gets way on top with damage, on average and with wicked burst damage with maneuver dice and action surge. And that's even before life drinker kicks in (because it is delayed), and with higher level spell casting than a lock 4 / sor 8. Given that you yourself conclude in a later post that fighter dipping is 'fair', I don't really see why you don't use it. With variant human and 2 strenght increases, you have a build that can have 20 str, 16 con, and 16 cha, and proficiency in heavy armor and con saves.

[Millstone85]

My personal bias, but poison seems like something a bad guy would use.Chances are your character crossed that line when they became a warlock. Even if they aren't really a bad guy, this is pretty much "questionable methods, the class".

Unless you have been knighted by the Lady of the Lake, a truly benevolent archfey, or made a defender of your planet by The Powers That Be Beyond The Stars.


you will be fighting humans. you'll also be fighting lots and lots of things that are not humans. ultimately, you will probably wind up fighting far more not-humans than humans, in fact.
even if you're looking at mostly humans and similar, poison damage doesn't look very good.You are missing my point, which is that I do not trust the MM as a tool to predict what the DM will throw at me.

Even my remark about humans had little to do with NPC stat blocks and such, but rather with how noxious gas to the face would be effective in real life.

Conversely, I do not feel safe knowing that no creature is resistant against force damage and only one creature, the helmed horror, is immune to it. Will that be true in my DM's world? I haven't got a clue.

It is my understanding that the PHB alone represents a contract between the players and the DM. Meanwhile, the DMG and the MM are mostly just tools to help the DM, a much much more flexible kind of RAW.

[tieren]

Chances are your character crossed that line when they became a warlock. Even if they aren't really a bad guy, this is pretty much "questionable methods, the class".

Unless you have been knighted by the Lady of the Lake, a truly benevolent archfey, or made a defender of your planet by The Powers That Be Beyond The Stars.



Thats pretty much the concept I am going for. I am a forest gnome OotA paladin/Archfey warlock that I am playing as a green knight. He actually fell madly in love with his patron and serves her out of devotion more than as a function of contract.

As a gnome I can't possibly get 20 charisma and 20 strength with the standard array. I am taking shillelagh to get rid of the str requirement and still be able to melee in my heavy armor as a proper knight. The idea is to ride a medium mount (from find steed) and use a shield and one handed staff more or less like a lance. I'll have extra attack from paladin and the ability to throw some smites on for nova damage. My feats/ASi's are taken with warcaster and getting Cha to 20 until pretty late in the career (when I pick up one more feat for flavor).

I picture him as the off tank for the back row. He'll generally hang back with the casters throwing eldritch blasts and using his protection fighting style to protect his friends, but when he needs to he can charge forward whack some enemies with his magic stick delivering furious smites with his blows.

I am clearly not an optimizer and don't mean to distract from that discussion which I find interesting. I am just curious about the new cantrip options I hadn't previously considered when I assumed they had to come from the same list. I use my cantrips alot (including my racial minor illusion). Its a way to help the class still feel very magical even with the limited slots.

[Millstone85]

Thats pretty much the concept I am going for.
He actually fell madly in love with his patron and serves her out of devotion more than as a function of contract.I have been thinking about such a concept ever since I read Dragon Magazine #393's article on a 4e warlock (hexblade) of the fey pact.

http://timeoffire.wdfiles.com/local--files/the-lady-of-the-white-well/Lady-of-the-White-Well.jpg

It is so cheesy and I probably couldn't do it right but it is insteresting.

[SharkForce]

You are missing my point, which is that I do not trust the MM as a tool to predict what the DM will throw at me.

Even my remark about humans had little to do with NPC stat blocks and such, but rather with how noxious gas to the face would be effective in real life.

Conversely, I do not feel safe knowing that no creature is resistant against force damage and only one creature, the helmed horror, is immune to it. Will that be true in my DM's world? I haven't got a clue.

It is my understanding that the PHB alone represents a contract between the players and the DM. Meanwhile, the DMG and the MM are mostly just tools to help the DM, a much much more flexible kind of RAW.

the logic behind poison damage being less valuable will still largely apply. creatures with really awful con saves will tend to be uncommon, simply because creatures with really awful con will tend to be uncommon, probably in large part because monsters with really awful con tend to not provide much of a challenge due to having very few hit points, and entire broad categories of creatures don't really make sense to not be immune to poison (i mean, how do you poison a corpse or animate statue or a creature composed of living fire? why would poisons that work on animals work on plants the same way? a creature who comes from a different reality might reasonably be expected to have a different enough biology that the poison doesn't work as well. demons and devils arguably don't even really have biological systems for poison to disrupt).

5e tends to encourage a much more measured application of immunities and resistances in monsters than at least some of the earlier systems (in 3.x it almost became a standard... "oh, it's a high level monster? just make it resistant to everything except force and sonic"), typically using it only when it really makes a lot of sense (or is very iconic), i find. and the problem is, it's a lot easier for poison to make sense as something a monster might be resistant or immune to for a variety of reasons than, say, lightning.

[Millstone85]

monsters with really awful con tend to not provide much of a challenge due to having very few hit points, and entire broad categories of creatures don't really make sense to not be immune to poison
how do you poison a corpse or animate statue or a creature composed of living fire?
demons and devils arguably don't even really have biological systems for poison to disruptTouché. Even without the MM, poison can be expected to be shrugged off by much of the typical fantasy world.


why would poisons that work on animals work on plants the same way? a creature who comes from a different reality might reasonably be expected to have a different enough biology that the poison doesn't work as well.Since poison spray is a spell that the caster directs at a single creature, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect some adaptability from the magic. Different gases might be evoked against different creatures.

Still, I see now why you would avoid this cantrip.

[Crgaston]

Re: Poison Spray... it does come in handy for fiendlocks starting their adventuring day with full temporary HP by quietly exterminating a few rats or pigeons. The innkeeper will probably appreciate you for it, too.

[Sabeta]

Chances are your character crossed that line when they became a warlock. Even if they aren't really a bad guy, this is pretty much "questionable methods, the class".


I somewhat disagree. SCAG mentions that Warlocks frequently don't even know who they're contracted to. They just made a deal with an Imp for a quick boost of power and they'll worry about their reckoning day later. In fact, Infernal Warlocks are so common that it's practically ubiquitous. It also mentions that Wizards aren't too bothered by Warlocks (some see Warlocks as a bad stereotype that ruins the reputations of all casters), but that everyone is simply pursuing magical knowledge how they see fit.

I could definitely see a Scholar making a deal with the devil for no other reason than to see how the magic works, and not out of malice or desire for power. It's also possible to be a good or neutral person who makes a deal in a time of need (see: V, from OotS), or many more stories.

Never let the PHBs fluff get in the way of a good character concept. The same "I fell in love with a fey" story could be applied to "I fell in love with a Succubus". Although it would probably work quite differently.

[Millstone85]

SCAG mentions that Warlocks frequently don't even know who they're contracted to. They just made a deal with an Imp for a quick boost of power and they'll worry about their reckoning day later. In fact, Infernal Warlocks are so common that it's practically ubiquitous.On the one hand, I like that Asmodeus achieved godhood and that his portfolio is "indulgence". Nice reminder that the Moral Compass of Outer Plane Attunement is not a common item in the Material Plane.

On the other hand, it is kind of ridiculous that characters would need a successful Intelligence (Religion) check to know that devils are embodiments of evil.

Or maybe I am overthinking this and an imp would of course use a disguise or some other subterfuge when offering a pact.


I could definitely see a Scholar making a deal with the devil for no other reason than to see how the magic works, and not out of malice or desire for power.In stories about Faustian bargains, curiosity is practically the eighth cardinal sin. Justified in this case because the magic runs on cosmic evil.


It's also possible to be a good or neutral person who makes a deal in a time of need (see: V, from OotS), or many more stories.V believes they very much acted against their alignment then, or at least made a dreadful mistake and are accountable for the consequences.


Never let the PHBs fluff get in the way of a good character concept. The same "I fell in love with a fey" story could be applied to "I fell in love with a Succubus". Although it would probably work quite differently.Probably in a Nale/Sabine kind of way, where the relationship works because they are partners in crime.

[Waitingninja]

Is there somewhere you list out the patron spells and/or preferred ritual and cantrips for the book of ancient secrets?

[EvilAnagram]

Is there somewhere you list out the patron spells and/or preferred ritual and cantrips for the book of ancient secrets?
Patron spells are listed in spoiler blocks in the patron section.

I have not covered the extra cantrips principally because I enjoy watching people argue over them for multiple pages. I will eventually cover them, though.

The rituals are all relatively equal. The only one that might not be purple is Detect Magic, but you can get that through an Invocation.

Find Familiar and Identify also get an honorable mention.

[Gignere]

Patron spells are listed in spoiler blocks in the patron section.

I have not covered the extra cantrips principally because I enjoy watching people argue over them for multiple pages. I will eventually cover them, though.

The rituals are all relatively equal. The only one that might not be purple is Detect Magic, but you can get that through an Invocation.

Find Familiar and Identify also get an honorable mention.

Comprehend language is coming in pretty handy with my wizard in current campaign. I guess it is campaign specific but in ruins exploration when your DM asks if the party know xxxx specific language you can say I will after 10 mins. It is awesome.

[CaptainSarathai]

The rituals are all relatively equal. The only one that might not be purple is Detect Magic, but you can get that through an Invocation.

Find Familiar and Identify also get an honorable mention.

Yeah, I find optimizing rituals to be kinda pointless. Other than Find Familiar, they're all pretty situatoonal or DM/Campaign-dependent.

[EvilAnagram]

Comprehend language is coming in pretty handy with my wizard in current campaign. I guess it is campaign specific but in ruins exploration when your DM asks if the party know xxxx specific language you can say I will after 10 mins. It is awesome.

Oh, yeah, they're all super useful, and in the right campaign they can do so much for you.

[Waitingninja]

The rituals are all relatively equal. The only one that might not be purple is Detect Magic, but you can get that through an Invocation.

Then why is ritual casting sky blue if they are all purple?

[SharkForce]

Then why is ritual casting sky blue if they are all purple?


because purple in these guides means good in certain situations, and when you have 30 different things that are all purple, one ability that can grant all of those things is good in a lot of situations.

[Youngsage3]

May I just say that your guides have proved immensely helpful to me on my first real campaign, moreso than the other guides I have found? Thanks for writing them. A question for future reference, will you be updating this guide with information on the recent Unearthed Arcana Patrons and Invocations (ie The Seeker, The Hexblade, and The Raven Queen)? Likewise with your Sorcerer guide and the 4 new UA Bloodlines?

[EvilAnagram]

May I just say that your guides have proved immensely helpful to me on my first real campaign, moreso than the other guides I have found? Thanks for writing them. A question for future reference, will you be updating this guide with information on the recent Unearthed Arcana Patrons and Invocations (ie The Seeker, The Hexblade, and The Raven Queen)? Likewise with your Sorcerer guide and the 4 new UA Bloodlines?

Thanks!

At the moment, I have no plans to update with more UA material. At the moment, there are something along the lines of a dozen archetypes for classes covered in my guides in the recently released UA material, and I simply have too much to do in my normal life to keep up with that. I'll update for any official material that gets released, but otherwise I'm going to let the play testers figure it out.

[faikwansuen]

Hey man, literally just made an account to comment here. Thanks so much for writing these up, you're doing great stuff, I really appreciate these and have been using these guides since I started playing 5E back in 2015.

The formatting is fantastic and it's super easy to read through. Sometimes I wish you had a guide for a class I was making a character for, but I know you can't cover everything.

Anyhow, keep up the marvelous work. Hope to see your reviews on the new material coming our way! :)

[Snowfalcon]

Rogue: As always, Sneak Attack and Expertise are awesome, and every caster wants to Disengage on a bonus action.

Have rather enjoyed your guide and the various comments.

Did want to suggest you give thought to breaking out the Multi-class suggestions into archetypes and subsets of other classes where the selection might prove to be a benefit.

I would argue specifically for giving the Arcane Trickster Archetype a nod and maybe even a Sky Blue. By something of a fluke a year or so ago I made up a rogue/warlock (Great Old One Pact). We didn't have a caster at all in the party, I wasn't taking the game seriously and I was curious about the class. I doubted the wisdom of my whim until rogue reached 3rd level and Arcane Trickster became an option. I was already at level 4 as a Warlock and had Tome Pact.

That frustrating part where you have to burn a 2nd (or higher) level spell slot if you want the damage of Hex? Suddenly gone because there are a couple of 1st level slots around now that can be spent on utility spells that normally would cost a higher slot without any benefit of scaling. Comprehend Languages is useful, but it doesn't scale and the thought of having to burn a 2nd or 3rd level slot to read a key inscription is painful. Arcane Trickster provides a couple of low level slots to do "odd things" with.

And that's on top of the benefits already mentioned like Cunning Action. Which is great for disengage, but for a Warlock to have Cunning Action, Devil's Sight, Mage Hand Legerdemain and Darkness? Much naughtiness -- to a point where DM and other players were suggesting the following was broken -- ensues. I would cast Mage Hand and Darkness putting the Darkness on a dagger. Another object would work but daggers are ubiquitous and handy. Now I have dark that can come with me, go away temporarily, stay put or move both with me and independently. I can move it as a bonus action if desired so I can keep that right by a troublesome boss while I can still attack and move. The big giant who would stick his head out of the sphere? That dagger floats close to his head and I keep it there, problem solved. That light crossbow you were going to ditch because you have Eldritch Blast? That'll let you get your sneak attack dice at range into or through Darkness.

Other benefits in no particular order:

Uncanny Dodge comes on at 4th level (which I would take to pick up the feat or increase) and halves a great deal of damage.
Expertise can either make you fantastic at important things like Perception and Stealth or bolster something that's not so good but that a Warlock (being caster) should be better at like Arcana, even with low intelligence a 6 Arcana is possible this way.
If Rogue is starting class two more skills are very nice things.
If scouting, Awakened Mind often makes reports back possible. Detect Thoughts can also augment this. And Misty Step has uses for a Rogue.
From the Rogue side, having a high charisma is not a bad thing: Deception and Rogues rather go together.
A low Intelligence does not cause problems. Take spells and cantrips that do not need attack rolls or generate saves from the Wizard list. Where possible make utility spells the Trickster spells and attack spells Warlock spells. Magic Missile might be the exception. Leave the offensive spells to the Warlock. (It's possible to dump both STR and INT and this combination is viable. More than, but I don't like playing stupid characters.)

Depending on choices a Rogue/Warlock at 3/4 has 9 Cantrips and 10 Spells known, potentially from three different types of magic and the capacity to ritual cast. And preserves the more powerful spell slots going forward by having a couple of low level slots for other, useful things. On top of having a mass of useful options to increase effectiveness in and out of fights and several features like Cunning Action and Uncanny Dodge that greatly increase the survival of the character. It's worth consideration.

[EvilAnagram]

snip

That sounds like a fun build, but as a rule I tend not to get too deep into the minutiae of multiclassing. Honestly, I don't like multiclassing, I don't spend my free time thinking of multiclassing builds, and I generally avoid the subject.

Now, I'm not going to tell someone that their way of playing is badwrongfun, but my personal taste in this issue makes me somewhat unqualified to delve much deeper into multiclassing in my guides. My multiclass input is generally there for brief examples of avenues for players to explore, should they wish.

PeteNutButter's Ultimate Optimizer's Multiclassing guide handles more in-depth multiclass analyses, and for this particular subject, the discussion there should prove far more robust.

[Snowfalcon]

That sounds like a fun build, but as a rule I tend not to get too deep into the minutiae of multiclassing. Honestly, I don't like multiclassing, I don't spend my free time thinking of multiclassing builds, and I generally avoid the subject.

Totally respect that. Thanks for the pointer to that discussion.

[Sorlock Master]

The only gripe I have is Barbarian being red.

3 levels in and you get Resistance to all damage except Psychic Damage which you can pick up with 10 levels in Lock with either GOO or Fiend pact.

You can cast before you rage, AoA isn't concentration so you can cast it and rage and effectively have 50 more HP rather then 25. With taking 25 cold damage every time something hits you your basically the best anti horde guy around.

Plus the lack of casting and D12 HD mean you don't really need CON quite as much.

Not saying its good for everyone, but a Bladelock that wants on demad tankyness its awesome.

[Burnteyes]

I registered for a few reasons, but the strongest motivator was to pop in and say thanks and congratulate you EvilA on what might be one of the best designed and thought out build guides I recall seeing. I'll just note my credentials briefly. I was "online" before Al Gore invented this thing and hail from red box days in DND.

You and I have some differences in build, likely because I tend more toward a destructive/disruptive controller than a defensive/disruptive one.

Having said that, I believe an example prudent. You, and many others dislike True Strike and I understand why. Further, many don't like Witch Bolt. However, I like both, particularly with Warlock, for a very specific reason.

You take one round to lock the target and avoid getting hit, if you can. Then, with advantage you drop Witch Bolt on the major bad guy. My current Warlock has a 20 Cha.. (yeah, yeah, I actually rolled 18) I'm rolling a +7 with advantage. At L5 I, if I hit I get nifty 3d12... Oh yeah, it's locked in. So what now Johnny Bravo? Why, how about Eldritch blast at +7 to hit and +5 damage (EBlast) plus d12, you know, because I have Witch Bolt Rolling. Yes, I could be rolling Hex instead to get a d6 damage, however, I will get get the big first hit. Additionally, with Hex there is no guarantee of damage as you can miss your attack role, like there is which Witch Bolt (if I don't lose concentration). Could I use Hex and Witch Bolt, sure, but that is 2 slots burned. Slots are at a premium with Warlock and my way provides a low level one two punch that is hard to beat while only using one slot.

You did note there were some builds that could make use of Witch Bolt. However, you seem to really dislike True Strike and I simply wanted to point out why it has a lot of value to me.

Thanks again.

[Spacehamster]

Going to add in hexblade and the celestial patrons from xanathars guide to everything?

[EvilAnagram]

I registered for a few reasons, but the strongest motivator was to pop in and say thanks and congratulate you EvilA on what might be one of the best designed and thought out build guides I recall seeing. I'll just note my credentials briefly. I was "online" before Al Gore invented this thing and hail from red box days in DND.

You and I have some differences in build, likely because I tend more toward a destructive/disruptive controller than a defensive/disruptive one.

Having said that, I believe an example prudent. You, and many others dislike True Strike and I understand why. Further, many don't like Witch Bolt. However, I like both, particularly with Warlock, for a very specific reason.

You take one round to lock the target and avoid getting hit, if you can. Then, with advantage you drop Witch Bolt on the major bad guy. My current Warlock has a 20 Cha.. (yeah, yeah, I actually rolled 18) I'm rolling a +7 with advantage. At L5 I, if I hit I get nifty 3d12... Oh yeah, it's locked in. So what now Johnny Bravo? Why, how about Eldritch blast at +7 to hit and +5 damage (EBlast) plus d12, you know, because I have Witch Bolt Rolling. Yes, I could be rolling Hex instead to get a d6 damage, however, I will get get the big first hit. Additionally, with Hex there is no guarantee of damage as you can miss your attack role, like there is which Witch Bolt (if I don't lose concentration). Could I use Hex and Witch Bolt, sure, but that is 2 slots burned. Slots are at a premium with Warlock and my way provides a low level one two punch that is hard to beat while only using one slot.

You did note there were some builds that could make use of Witch Bolt. However, you seem to really dislike True Strike and I simply wanted to point out why it has a lot of value to me.

Thanks again.

Well, thank you for the compliments. I'm really glad you enjoy the guide.

As for Witch Bolt, the problem with it is that by the rules, it takes an action to deal that 1d12 of damage, so your trick of dealing the d12 and casting Eldritch Blast doesn't work by RAW. If you talked it over with your DM and he's cool with it not costing an action, that's awesome, but I can't make recommendations based on your table's rules. That said, there are builds that make use of Witch Bolt to solid effect, but it happens to be competing with other strong Concentration effects like Darkness, Hex, and Hunger of Hadar that provide strong control and boost your damage without costing actions every turn.

On a personal note, I like using Witch Bolt. I think it's a fun spell, and I like to put together complicated builds with weird payoffs. Frankly, if you work with the tank, it can be damned potent. I just can't recommend it from an optimizing point of view.

[Burnteyes]

On a personal note, I like using Witch Bolt. I think it's a fun spell, and I like to put together complicated builds with weird payoffs. Frankly, if you work with the tank, it can be damned potent. I just can't recommend it from an optimizing point of view.

Well you caught me, and a gap that I overlooked. DM is a little relaxed on the specifics of carrying Witch Bolt and by the rules you are 100% correct. Now that I think about it, my suggestion was as much a theoretical (a rule violation flawed one) than a standard practice. Hunger and Eldritch push (which the character does not have) back in actually works better now that I think about it.

I agree, it is not the best "optimization" spell for a Warlock. I think the point I neglected to make was more about True Strike with Witch Bolt as a Warlock. It's the only spell/class/build for which True Strike makes a lot of sense, but it does make sense, IMO. However, it is not optimized and Hex followed by Eldritch Blast in my example of build causes nearly as much damage, allows for advantage each time and is rules legal. So, I stand corrected specific to the point of your well thought out work.

I rather enjoy being shown why I am wrong sometimes.

[Naanomi]

Fun trick with XGtE: Celestial Patron level 6 ability adds damage to any spell doing radiant damage...

A Volo’s aasimar can add Radiant damage to any spell...

So an Aasimar with a Celestial Patron can add its bonus damage to any spell (at least once a turn anyways)

[Burnteyes]

Fun trick with XGtE: Celestial Patron level 6 ability adds damage to any spell doing radiant damage...

A Volo’s aasimar can add Radiant damage to any spell...

So an Aasimar with a Celestial Patron can add its bonus damage to any spell (at least once a turn anyways)

Oh that is nasty/tricky/good.

As I am playing Tomb of Annihilation with the Warlock, I elected for Yuan-Ti (prior to reading this thread) based on the poison resistance alone. Okay, not alone, Yuan-Ti is a pretty killer race. I do have a Bard Assimar.. hmm..(again selected prior to reading THAT thread). OP and I have similar opinions on many things, which probably provides a little confirmation bias on why I think these guides are so good.

[Submortimer]

Fun trick with XGtE: Celestial Patron level 6 ability adds damage to any spell doing radiant damage...

A Volo’s aasimar can add Radiant damage to any spell...

So an Aasimar with a Celestial Patron can add its bonus damage to any spell (at least once a turn anyways)

For 1 minute / long rest.

It'll get you through a fight, but not much more than that.

[Naanomi]

For 1 minute / long rest.

It'll get you through a fight, but not much more than that.
Sure, but since you are likely popping off that aasimar ability anyways on tough fights; might as well take the free boost

[EvilAnagram]

Fun trick with XGtE: Celestial Patron level 6 ability adds damage to any spell doing radiant damage...

A Volo’s aasimar can add Radiant damage to any spell...

So an Aasimar with a Celestial Patron can add its bonus damage to any spell (at least once a turn anyways)

Ooh, that's fun. It works well with three levels of Sorcerer to make sure you get a spell off that turn with Quicken. It's a nova, but novas can be fun.

[Zanthy1]

Evil, do you plan on adding the XGTE subclasses to this guide?

[EvilAnagram]

Evil, do you plan on adding the XGTE subclasses to this guide?

I do. I preordered it, and I'll be updating my guides after it arrives. I'll be sneaking in a few updates for those classes that haven't changed since the UA, but I'm trying not to let discussions prejudice me in any way.

[Burnteyes]

EA,

I don't want to ask to much more as you are already adding the stuff from XGTE in addition to all the stuff you've already done. However, any plans or perhaps already know of someone who has rated the Feats Compendium additions in the various classes you've already created the guides for?

[SkylarkR6]

I do. I preordered it, and I'll be updating my guides after it arrives. I'll be sneaking in a few updates for those classes that haven't changed since the UA, but I'm trying not to let discussions prejudice me in any way.

Thank you. Seriously, thank you. Your guides are amazing and I have been checking this one in particular every day to see your xgte breakdown.

[EvilAnagram]

EA,

I don't want to ask to much more as you are already adding the stuff from XGTE in addition to all the stuff you've already done. However, any plans or perhaps already know of someone who has rated the Feats Compendium additions in the various classes you've already created the guides for?

I'll be adding feats after I add the archetypes. I'll be trying to get the archetypes in by December, but we'll have to see hiw long it takes to get the feats in. I don't know of anyone who has already rated the new feats on a class-by-class basis, but I'm sure there will be plenty of discussions.

[Burnteyes]

I'll be adding feats after I add the archetypes. I'll be trying to get the archetypes in by December, but we'll have to see hiw long it takes to get the feats in. I don't know of anyone who has already rated the new feats on a class-by-class basis, but I'm sure there will be plenty of discussions.

Did you ever know that your my hero?
You're everything I wish I could be.

[SharkForce]

EA,

I don't want to ask to much more as you are already adding the stuff from XGTE in addition to all the stuff you've already done. However, any plans or perhaps already know of someone who has rated the Feats Compendium additions in the various classes you've already created the guides for?


I'll be adding feats after I add the archetypes. I'll be trying to get the archetypes in by December, but we'll have to see hiw long it takes to get the feats in. I don't know of anyone who has already rated the new feats on a class-by-class basis, but I'm sure there will be plenty of discussions.


Did you ever know that your my hero?
You're everything I wish I could be.

just to be clear here, my gut feeling is that you're both talking past each other here.

Burnteyes, if i'm reading this correctly, is asking about a separate book/product/website/???? called the Feats Compendium.

EvilAnagram, i'm guessing, is talking about adding the feats found in XGtE.

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong about that, though :P

[pdegan2814]

Fun trick with XGtE: Celestial Patron level 6 ability adds damage to any spell doing radiant damage...

A Volo’s aasimar can add Radiant damage to any spell...

So an Aasimar with a Celestial Patron can add its bonus damage to any spell (at least once a turn anyways)

Fallen Aasimar deal necrotic, not radiant. And is it your spell dealing the additional radiant damage, or is it you? Because if it's you, then the spell wouldn't get the Celestial bonus. The wording of the two features make me uncertain. That being said, the amount of extra damage is like 3-5 points, so I'm fine letting it work.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Fallen Aasimar deal necrotic, not radiant. And is it your spell dealing the additional radiant damage, or is it you? Because if it's you, then the spell wouldn't get the Celestial bonus. The wording of the two features make me uncertain. That being said, the amount of extra damage is like 3-5 points, so I'm fine letting it work.

Ah, but Protector Aasimar deal radiant damage.

[Burnteyes]

just to be clear here, my gut feeling is that you're both talking past each other here.

Burnteyes, if i'm reading this correctly, is asking about a separate book/product/website/???? called the Feats Compendium.

EvilAnagram, i'm guessing, is talking about adding the feats found in XGtE.

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong about that, though :P

Correct and good call thanks. Feat Compedium is a doc available at DMSGuild. Has all the standard plus some add ons.

[Kobard]

Any plans for a XGE update?

[Armored Walrus]

Seconding the request to update. I'd love to get your take on the expanded spell options that hexblades get.

[LVOD]

Thirded?

Love this guide

[werescythe]

It would be nice to see him update this. I am curious how the new sub-classes and invocation work out. Partially because I'm thinking of making a glamour bard, who after reaching level 14, multi-classes into either Sorcerer or Warlock for 6 levels. :smallsmile:

[EvilAnagram]

So, I'm going to be honest. I have put no effort towards updating the guides in three months, and I don't feel bad about it at all for two reasons:


I have a fairly new job as an editor and writer for a trade magazine, and it takes up most of the mental energy I have set aside for writing.
My wife is pregnant, so my free time has been spent taking care of her and the house.


Sorry to anyone who's been wanting updates, but my family has to come first. I'm super excited by both of these events, and I'm obviously going to continue putting my family ahead of internet guides, even if I love writing internet guides.

That said, I'm updating the guides this month. One of my regular tables is in a transitional period, so I have spare time and mental energy to write. Look for my remaining guides to get the Xanathar patch shortly.

[Armored Walrus]

Can't fault your priorities, but excited to see the update when it comes ;)

[JakOfAllTirades]

So, I'm going to be honest. I have put no effort towards updating the guides in three months, and I don't feel bad about it at all for two reasons:


I have a fairly new job as an editor and writer for a trade magazine, and it takes up most of the mental energy I have set aside for writing.
My wife is pregnant, so my free time has been spent taking care of her and the house.


Sorry to anyone who's been wanting updates, but my family has to come first. I'm super excited by both of these events, and I'm obviously going to continue putting my family ahead of internet guides, even if I love writing internet guides.

That said, I'm updating the guides this month. One of my regular tables is in a transitional period, so I have spare time and mental energy to write. Look for my remaining guides to get the Xanathar patch shortly.

Congrats on all of that, and thanks for all you've done!

[Contramundi]

Shadow Blade (XGtE): You can cheese the hell out of this sword. At high levels a standard Bladelock can uses this to deal 4d8+1d6+10 damage twice a turn.



When you get a chance, I recommend downgrading this spell. It requires concentration, so you can't run this and Hex at the same time. So no +1d6. Also, even as a bladelock,you can't attack with it twice and you don't add +10 damage. Look at the Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker invocations again:



Thirsting Blade
You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn




Lifedrinker
When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).



It takes a 1 hour ritual to turn a weapon into your pact weapon. Shadow Blade lasts, at most, 1 minute. Shadow Blade cannot be your pact weapon. So even a bladelock can only attack with it once and you can't add the damage bonus from Lifedrinker. You could multi-class to get the Extra Attack feature from another class, but you still wouldn't get the Lifedrinker damage bonus. The best a pure bladelock can do with this spell is dual wield, pact weapon in one hand and shadow blade in the other. And again, it eats your concentration. Is this really the best spell to be concentrating on, given the limitations? Personally, I don't think so. You may disagree.

[EvilAnagram]

When you get a chance, I recommend downgrading this spell. It requires concentration, so you can't run this and Hex at the same time. So no +1d6. Also, even as a bladelock,you can't attack with it twice and you don't add +10 damage. Look at the Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker invocations again:






It takes a 1 hour ritual to turn a weapon into your pact weapon. Shadow Blade lasts, at most, 1 minute. Shadow Blade cannot be your pact weapon. So even a bladelock can only attack with it once and you can't add the damage bonus from Lifedrinker. You could multi-class to get the Extra Attack feature from another class, but you still wouldn't get the Lifedrinker damage bonus. The best a pure bladelock can do with this spell is dual wield, pact weapon in one hand and shadow blade in the other. And again, it eats your concentration. Is this really the best spell to be concentrating on, given the limitations? Personally, I don't think so. You may disagree.

Solid points!

[Patchy]

I have a question concerning racial feats.



Flames of Phlegethos: I'm a bit torn on Phlegm Fire. The protection is... minor. Really minor. But rerolling 1s is pretty nice. It's not bad for half a feat, so if you want to boost your CHA by 1 you might as well.

Does this mean that the Xanathar's Guide racial feats count as half-feats, or am I just trying to bend the rules to my favor here?

[SkylarkR6]

I have a question concerning racial feats.

Does this mean that the Xanathar's Guide racial feats count as half-feats, or am I just trying to bend the rules to my favor here?

It's called a "half feat" because it gives you a +1 to a stat in addition to it's other features. Unlike Great weapon Master which gives no stat boost. Hope that helps