Help with misotheistic character

[Mr.Kraken]

Hello to the playground.
I've started playing with a misotheistic character yesterday, and now I'm thinking on what to do with him in the future. For those that don't know, misotheism is a philosophy where, basically, you hate gods. As opposed to atheism, you believe they exist, but not that they should be worshipped. The character is also a humanist, believing that if everyone in the world would work together, then, we would have no need for gods.

As such, his build so far is Human Paragon 3/Duskblade 2. I'm planning on having another level of Duskblade to have arcane channeling, and then, go on to Ur-Priest (DM handwaved the prerequisite of being evil). I'm basically thinking on going Ur-Priest 10, but I don't know what I'll do after, nor do I have any idea on feats that would be good, fluff and game-wise, for the character.

These are his feats so far:
* Level 1: Iron Will - prereq for Ur-Priest
* Human: Spell Focus (Abjuration) - prereq for Ur-Priest, changed from (Evil) to (Abjuration)
* Flaw: Skill Knowledge (Knowledge [Religion] and Autohypnosis)
* Flaw: Heroic Destiny
* Level 3: Protected Destiny
* Human Paragon 2: Power Attack
* Duskblade 2: Combat Casting

I'm planning on taking the Divine Denial feat, which would be really good for him. Also, in spite of being 'godless', he is chaotic good. He's basically a good version of an Ur-Priest. So, playground, any ideas?

[Bronk]

Hello to the playground.
I've started playing with a misotheistic character yesterday, and now I'm thinking on what to do with him in the future. For those that don't know, misotheism is a philosophy where, basically, you hate gods. As opposed to atheism, you believe they exist, but not that they should be worshipped. The character is also a humanist, believing that if everyone in the world would work together, then, we would have no need for gods.

As such, his build so far is Human Paragon 3/Duskblade 2. I'm planning on having another level of Duskblade to have arcane channeling, and then, go on to Ur-Priest (DM handwaved the prerequisite of being evil). I'm basically thinking on going Ur-Priest 10, but I don't know what I'll do after, nor do I have any idea on feats that would be good, fluff and game-wise, for the character.

These are his feats so far:
* Level 1: Iron Will - prereq for Ur-Priest
* Human: Spell Focus (Abjuration) - prereq for Ur-Priest, changed from (Evil) to (Abjuration)
* Flaw: Skill Knowledge (Knowledge [Religion] and Autohypnosis)
* Flaw: Heroic Destiny
* Level 3: Protected Destiny
* Human Paragon 2: Power Attack
* Duskblade 2: Combat Casting

I'm planning on taking the Divine Denial feat, which would be really good for him. Also, in spite of being 'godless', he is chaotic good. He's basically a good version of an Ur-Priest. So, playground, any ideas?

Ur-priest is great and all, but this guy has a whole philosophy going - he'd actually be perfect for being a cleric of an ideal! You could then add in some ranger to pick up good and evil outsiders as favored enemies, and have an overarching goal of fighting divine minions like other clerics, angelic or evil outsider messengers, and eventually gods themselves. His endgame could also involve attaining immortality and/or avoiding faerun so he doesn't end up in the Wall of the Faithless... unless he wants to swing by long enough to befriend Kezef the Chaos Hound.

[Geddy2112]

Pathfinder has a caviler order dedicated to atheism and protection from the interference of divine agents. It is called order of the first law (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-first-law)

[The Viscount]

If you want to continue opposition to the gods, that's exactly what the Athar do. They're an organization in the Planar Handbook, and they have the Defiant Prc. You'd want to avoid taking too much since it would start messing with your own magic, but a few levels could be nice. You could also get some benefit out of hierophant, or eunuch warlock if your DM doesn't use the updated version.

[Mr.Kraken]

The defiant fits well, and I've thought about it, but that class is awfully situational. He doesn't have spellcasting, doesn't have full BAB and his abilities are all so very specific... it doesn't seem worth it.

We can't use anything from Pathfinder, Oriental Adventures, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, psionics, ToB or Dragon, so no Order of the First Law and Eunuch Warlock...

Hierophant could be interesting for a dip, maybe.

[Ger. Bessa]

Only take 1-2 level of Human Paragon, then Duskblade 3-4, then Ur Priest and pick your level 2 and 3 of HP progressing UP once you have Turn/Rebuke. Unless you want the Ur-priest "steal SLA" ability.

Later, you can theurge with Nar demonbinder.

[Ortesk]

I have two questions. How high of level are you going, and what is your end goal? If you are going epic, I could see taking a route to slay gods. If you are going 20, I would say leadership. Start an organization, a humanitarian one. Why? Because if you are feeding the masses, protecting people, and are laying the belief that gods are not needed, then they lose followers/power.

[Eisfalken]

There's a number of character types that exist on the edge of "normal" religious society in a given setting. Warlocks gain power from fiendish or chaotic sources. Binders deal with beings that grant power in a way that runs contrary to the idea of divine magic, including beings considered outcasts by gods and fiends alike. Archivists cast any divine magic they want, without serving any higher principles or powers.

But let's play with the Chaotic Good notion that you are trying to free mortal-kind from the dominion of the so-called gods out there. There was another group who rebelled against the gods and were punished for it: titans. Some may have had selfish motivations, but many merely chaffed at the limitations put on them.

So here's what I'm thinking. Take warlock, and your power source isn't fiends or faeries, it's titans (who are inherently Chaotic). You can stick with ur-priest, but I would consider instead being a cleric of philosophy, so you can take the Strength and Travel domains (and/or Knowledge if you want to go with cloistered cleric). Slide into Eldritch Disciple soon as you qualify, to take advantage of those abilities as well, then finish up with anything the helps your cleric spellcasting so you can reach those 9th-level spells.

Talk to the DM and ask him if you can take a thematic variation of Hellfire Warlock. Call it a Promethean Warlock, and the "hellfire" is actually the divine fire that the titan Prometheus stole from the gods and gave to mankind. The mechanics can all work exactly the same; you explain the Con damage as the divine power burning your mortal frame for trying to harness it.

Even if you don't progress into epic levels, you'll still have an amazingly powerful PC here, capable of starting an actual movement that weens people away from worship of the gods. Your spells should always be to help yourself and others or smite your enemies; thematically, you wouldn't use summoning or calling spells that forced other things to obey you (well, in theory anyway; I'm sure there is some philosophical debate to be had on that matter).

[Mr.Kraken]

Great ideas, guys. Unfortunately, we've already started play and going warlock will be impractical because of my stats (Str 18, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 20, Cha 8), same for changing my Human Paragon/Duskblade levels. I liked the idea of Leadership, even with low Cha. I was in deseprate need of feats that would fit thematically, as well as equipment and stuff.

[Aleolus]

There's a number of character types that exist on the edge of "normal" religious society in a given setting. Warlocks gain power from fiendish or chaotic sources. Binders deal with beings that grant power in a way that runs contrary to the idea of divine magic, including beings considered outcasts by gods and fiends alike. Archivists cast any divine magic they want, without serving any higher principles or powers.

But let's play with the Chaotic Good notion that you are trying to free mortal-kind from the dominion of the so-called gods out there. There was another group who rebelled against the gods and were punished for it: titans. Some may have had selfish motivations, but many merely chaffed at the limitations put on them.

So here's what I'm thinking. Take warlock, and your power source isn't fiends or faeries, it's titans (who are inherently Chaotic). You can stick with ur-priest, but I would consider instead being a cleric of philosophy, so you can take the Strength and Travel domains (and/or Knowledge if you want to go with cloistered cleric). Slide into Eldritch Disciple soon as you qualify, to take advantage of those abilities as well, then finish up with anything the helps your cleric spellcasting so you can reach those 9th-level spells.

Talk to the DM and ask him if you can take a thematic variation of Hellfire Warlock. Call it a Promethean Warlock, and the "hellfire" is actually the divine fire that the titan Prometheus stole from the gods and gave to mankind. The mechanics can all work exactly the same; you explain the Con damage as the divine power burning your mortal frame for trying to harness it.

Even if you don't progress into epic levels, you'll still have an amazingly powerful PC here, capable of starting an actual movement that weens people away from worship of the gods. Your spells should always be to help yourself and others or smite your enemies; thematically, you wouldn't use summoning or calling spells that forced other things to obey you (well, in theory anyway; I'm sure there is some philosophical debate to be had on that matter).

...Idea filed away for a later character of my own...

Which book is the Hellfire variant from, PHBII?

[Gildedragon]

...Idea filed away for a later character of my own...

Which book is the Hellfire variant from, PHBII?

Fiendish Codex 2: The Deviling
Rated Nine Hells out of Ten

[Yahzi]

hates gods
So, Harmodious from The Dread Wyrm. :smallbiggrin:

[Doc_Maynot]

Great ideas, guys. Unfortunately, we've already started play and going warlock will be impractical because of my stats (Str 18, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 20, Cha 8), same for changing my Human Paragon/Duskblade levels. I liked the idea of Leadership, even with low Cha. I was in deseprate need of feats that would fit thematically, as well as equipment and stuff.

If possible, there is the feat Might Makes Right. Lets you add your str mod to your leadership score.