Acolyte of the Ego: Slightly less bad than originally thought?

[mabriss lethe]

The entire truename section of ToM is rather well know for its poor editing and epic levels of dysfunction. As I was browsing it the other day, I decided to take a look at the Acolyte of the Ego. I noticed that it might actually be the best of the bunch. Or maybe not. It's kind of difficult to parse RAW in a few places. But yeah, on to the show.

1. It's built on a decent chassis: D8 hit die, 4+ skills, a decent skill list, good fort save and full BAB. There are a lot worse things you could be working with.
2. Entry is possible from pretty much any race/class combination. You might/ probably have to blow a feat for truespeech training, but it's no worse than other prc prerequisite, and has a direct impact on your character's performance NOTE: The Prc requires that you be humanoid., but that's not a huge limitation.
3. Cadence Mastery makes this class, and leads to some hilarious combos. As long as you can make the skill check, you can keep stringing together any number of powers as a standard action. (though i, at least , have a few questions about specifics.)
4. While some of your cadences require a save, which is bad, the save formula is pretty brutal for your opponents. (10+ class level+# of cadences known + cha mod), and can be boosted by an additional +3 using resonant voice.
5. Uncanny trickster 3( if you can qualify) will net you an additional cadence, with all attendant boosts.

With all that said, there are some questions about cadence mastery that could potentially be rather broken.

Q1. Does mastery let you string together multiple instances of the same cadence? As far as I can tell you can spam as many instances of cadence of the thunder as your skill modifier will support as a single standard action if that's your thing.

Q2. Do the secondary cadences added using cadence mastery suffer from the law of resistance, or does tacking extras on only incur the +5 increase to the skill check dc? After thinking about it, the answer is both yes and no. The DC only increases after a successful casting of a cadence, none of the cadences in a mastery combo affect the DC OF THAT CASTING. However, if you succeed, they will all contribute to the DC the next time you cast it. ( using the example of a double casting of thunder drake, assuming it's your first time using it in the day, your DC will simply be your personal truename +5 for the second iteration. If you were to cast it again later in the day, both iterations from the previous double cast would contribute to increasing the DC.)

[Darrin]

The entire truename section of ToM is rather well know for its poor editing and epic levels of dysfunction. As I was browsing it the other day, I decided to take a look at the Acolyte of the Ego. I noticed that it might actually be the best of the bunch.


Iron Chef LX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX/page5) featured Acolyte of the Ego, but it wasn't a big round. Only 5 entries. Oddly enough, two of those were Shadow Pouncers.



Q1. Does mastery let you string together multiple instances of the same cadence? As far as I can tell you can spam as many instances of cadence of the thunder as your skill modifier will support as a single standard action if that's your thing.


The chefs didn't find that trick... interesting. However, other than that one, I don't think any of the other cadences really stack well with themselves.



Q2. Do the secondary cadences added using cadence mastery suffer from the law of resistance, or does tacking extras on only incur the +5 increase to the skill check dc? After thinking about it, the answer is both yes and no. The DC only increases after a successful casting of a cadence, none of the cadences in a mastery combo affect the DC OF THAT CASTING. However, if you succeed, they will all contribute to the DC the next time you cast it. ( using the example of a double casting of thunder drake, assuming it's your first time using it in the day, your DC will simply be your personal truename +5 for the second iteration. If you were to cast it again later in the day, both iterations from the previous double cast would contribute to increasing the DC.)

Sounds about right.

Polymorph into a Garbler, and all your Truespeak checks autosucceed, so you could spam an infinite number of Cadence of Thunders every round.

[Troacctid]

Full BAB, d8 hit die, and 4 + Int skill points is still worse than taking levels in Barbarian, and pretty much infinitely worse than Swordsage (which isn't full BAB, but does a good imitation thanks to free Weapon Focus at 1st level), Warblade, Crusader, or War Mind (which can activate its buffs as a free action without any chance of failure, thank you very much).

The Dimension Door cadence is actually pretty decent, since teleportation is generally great, but the other ones are lackluster and not really worth a standard action, especially considering that they do nothing on a failed check. Quickening them with Quicken Breath on Cadence of the Thunder Drake is cute, but the opportunity cost is so high, it's probably not worth it.


Polymorph into a Garbler, and all your Truespeak checks autosucceed, so you could spam an infinite number of Cadence of Thunders every round.
Only for utterances. Cadences are just spell-like abilities.

Cadence of the Thunder Drake is also just one cadence, not multiple cadences.

[mabriss lethe]

Full BAB, d8 hit die, and 4 + Int skill points is still worse than taking levels in Barbarian, and pretty much infinitely worse than Swordsage (which isn't full BAB, but does a good imitation thanks to free Weapon Focus at 1st level), Warblade, Crusader, or War Mind (which can activate its buffs as a free action without any chance of failure, thank you very much).

The Dimension Door cadence is actually pretty decent, since teleportation is generally great, but the other ones are lackluster and not really worth a standard action, especially considering that they do nothing on a failed check. Quickening them with Quicken Breath on Cadence of the Thunder Drake is cute, but the opportunity cost is so high, it's probably not worth it.



Note the title: It isn't "Acolyte of the Ego is F'n Awesome" It's "Slightly less bad than originally thought" Yes, many classes will be better. That was never in doubt. When I broke down the basic class chassis, I didn't mean that it was the king and queen of cheese, just that the chassis itself, sans class features, isn't a total writeoff. It's something that you can work with.

As for the cadences not being worth the effort? Individually, I agree. Taken as a group of effects you can mix and match using Cadence Mastery, its tactical considerations are vastly improved. (though still not superb) Some examples +10 to your check gives you up to a +5 (+6 with uncanny trickster levels) bonus on every physical stat in a somewhat uncommon bonus type, no ragelike action restrictions and a duration that should last through an average encounter. +5 can net you a combined 10d6 sonic breath weapon with the Fear spell as a rider to the damage (each using the very nasty save formula for the class's abilities) In trouble? You can pop smoke and run, teleporting across the battlefield and granting yourself fast healing while you regroup. Need to escape a confrontation with an angry ex? Teleport across the street and wear another face, just to be sure.

Yes, all of this assumes that the character has a truespeech check optimized to a level where checks can be made with minimal risk of failure.

[Pluto!]

Acolyte is cool, but Warblade replicates everything it does so closely and so much better that it's hard to justify burning levels/feats/skills on it.

[mabriss lethe]

Acolyte is cool, but Warblade replicates everything it does so closely and so much better that it's hard to justify burning levels/feats/skills on it.

There are several justifications that I can think of:

1. ToB is frowned on at a lot of tables
2. Warblade does not have native access to teleportation, illusions, area attacks, or physical ability score buffs. Swordsage, however, can do pretty much all of it.
3. Some people like the challenge of optimizing underpowered classes.
4. Because I wanna, and don't need to justify choices if everyone is having fun.
5. Tacos are delicious.

Edit to add: AotE is strangley forgiving when it comes to entry requirements. Any class can enter with an Int of 16, (at most)a single feat, and one dedicated skill point per level. Lower Int characters can still get in by purchasing ranks in speak language. Your skill heavy classes can eat the skill point loss and not suffer, and contrary to expectation, your extremely skill starved Full BAB classes can as well, since you probably didn't pick them for their skills in the first place. The ones who will feel the biggest pinch from it are your 4+int skill classes.