Just read A Game of Thrones...

[DomaDoma]

Spoiler tags! Here is the full rambling, broody review, as I gave it to the friend who recommended it (he tersely replied that he last read it six years ago and didn't remember what I was talking about, but ah well):

You should've sold it less with the Icy Undead Soldiers of Doom and more with the Perilous Webs of Intrigue if you wanted me to pick it up sooner, but that's not to say the Others were any kind of letdown. They were absolutely bone-chilling, what little we see of them. I think it's the personal touch that does it (really hope Jon never meets Benjen,on that note.) That, and it gives Martin the perfect opportunity to tell us he is a ruthless killer of his characters. More fool I that I didn't heed it. He killed off my favorite of the lot. And not only that, but the jaws of the plot closed in on him like a well-oiled machine. No slap-dash tragedian he, but that only aided in making me a nervous wreck the night after I finished. (Yeah, I like a straight hero. But Tyrion was the most fun to read, I'll have to say.)

Did I mention I really want to kill the Lannisters?

Baelish's betrayal didn't come as such a great shock in and of itself - if you're not a complete outsider like Illyrio and that other guy (was it Pycelle?), it couldn't be plainer what he wants (Catelyn), and besides, distrusting a guy called Petyr Littlefinger is more or less in my blood - but at that particular moment, with that kind of efficiency - oh man. (Hm, wait, what does he have against Tyrion? Maybe I should reread, it'll help pass the time.)

Speaking of said trap, not a viewpoint chapter went by during which I did not want to smack Sansa upside her fool head. Though I do have a filk idea to the tune of Green Finch and Linnet Bird that's pretty sympathetic to her.

Also speaking of said trap, it's amazing how much Ned's confrontation of Cersei actually made sense. I was like "what are you telling her for, you bloody-damned fool?" but the weight behind his threats was actually pretty good - it's just that he put all his lots on Robert's safe return. I was screaming at Robert for getting drunk off his arse the morning of the tournament, too... I'll bet that the bloody Lannisters provided the wine both times, with Cersei so ambitious and in a lifelong snit to boot. The next time someone says "I am woman, hear me roar" - if anyone actually says that - I will warn the people never to call her the wrong name during sex.

My second-favorite characters are Jon and Robb, which is quite promising for my enjoyment of Clash of Kings. In fact, if Robb had his father's ambition, he would probably be first, but as it is, he's one more on the heap of families disregarding their motto, even if he would make the best king of the current contenders. Lessee... Robert is generally pretty mellow, the Arryns are into kangaroo courts, the Lannisters aren't exactly up-front, and now Robb is on a fool expedition to the south with winter on his heels. (Come to think of it, did Jon think to send a raven after that little incident at Castle Black? I don't remember, but in any case I'm sure Yoren got the memo.)

And that brings me to a request you'll never hear again. Clash of Kings doesn't arrive till Monday, which with an ending like that, is far too long by my reckoning, so I ask you for a spoiler that's bound to be resolved pretty early into the book. To wit: Is it too much to hope that Jon will see his favorite sibling sporting a lot of black and a kickass facial scar?

All this with twenty-eight days to Deathly Hallows - if my love for Harry Potter wasn't still so manifest, I'd take myself for a cheating h0r.

Please tell me Clash of Kings has an ending I can settle for temporarily.

[Green Bean]

To answer your question; no. While Clash of Kings continues in the Martin vein of killing off characters and having webs of intrigue, it ends much in the same way as the first book. If you're anything like me, you'll be left wanting more. Of course, Clash of Kings is my personal favourite of the series; I think you'll find many of the characters you hated will be further fleshed out and even become, if not likable, then understandable.

[Burrito]

It appears I have been beaten to the punch.

Well, if you haven't noticed by now Martin has no problems with killing off major characters. The bloodbath increases with Clash.

I really like the series, I just had a few problems with it. Is it just me or do the children in this series act about 10 years above their ages?

Im aslo not such a big fan of the incest and pseudo-pedophillia.

Tyrion just keeps getting better and better. He is the main reason to read the series (I think).

It is fun to hate the lannisters, but you end up hating just about everyone at some point. Jamie actually has some redeaming characteristics.

book 4 a Feast for Crows is a bit of a let-down. It ends up dealing with most of the Secondary characters. Apparently book 4 got way to big and he ended up breaking it up into two, this one dealing with 2nd tier characters and book 5 will have much more with Jon and Danherys (sp?) and all them.

Just do what I do and loan them out of the Library. I almost never buy books anymore. I don't have time to read them more than once anyway.

[Gavin Sage]

The first two books in the series are well worth reading and a great deal of fun. Intrigue and foreshadowing aplent with fun characters for the most part. Martin is a bit too heavy on character death, but then Jon and Daenyrs are only the protagionists by a nose so, so I think it feels like more because I have to invest in a substanial group.

The third books is also good but leaves me rather depressed especially after the fourth which is a complete letdown. I somewhat understand the explanation (Feast of Crows has more or less and apology in the back) but still I wish Martin would simply move on to the main plot already.

[Osnagard]

I for one think that AGoT was the best book I ever read, they do decline slightly, but the series is still amazing

I don't understand why everyone is so upset about AFfC, he appologised and is writing ADWD to fix it.

I hatted when that first character died, my favorite too. Never liked Rob for some reason, my second, and now first is shared by Jon and Danny, but another you've yet to meet is cool too.

The one lesson is "Don't get attached" more characters will dies, new ones will come, life goes on. Dispite the fact that it's disapointing it makes the character that much more human, not just an invincable character in a exagerated tale.

[DomaDoma]

Jamie actually has some redeaming characteristics.

Better him than, say, Tywin... I'll take it that you mean "characteristics that actually make him sympathetic", as he does have a little affection for Tyrion and a few compunctions about the whole window incident, but I still hate his guts.

[Dragonrider]

:smalltongue: I have to curse the English language and its confusing tenses, because when I read the thread title I thought it said "just read" as in telling us to read it. Now I'm just confused. But that's ok. Carry on, carry on....

[Burrito]

Well, about Jamie...

WARNING, POSSIBLE SPOILER, THOUGH MILD




Jamie takes some major falls, and is forced to see the world in a whole new light (he is still a Lanister though...)and although it isn't there yet, he does take a step or two towards redemption

[EmeraldRose]

:smalltongue: I have to curse the English language and its confusing tenses, because when I read the thread title I thought it said "just read" as in telling us to read it. Now I'm just confused. But that's ok. Carry on, carry on....

Still...you really should read it. It is an incredible work of fiction...full of intrigue. The bad guys are REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY bad, and the good guys may or may not really be good. It will leave you hanging on the edge of your seat waiting for the next book.

Unfortunately...the waiting will last for years as we wait and wait and wait for the next installment. WHen it comes out though, my husband and I fight over who gets to read it, and we MUST make sure to have two bookmarks in the book at all times!! :smallwink:

[Foeofthelance]

Honestly, I'm a bit of mixed feelings about the entire series. I don't mind an author willing to kill of characters, even major ones. But Martin kills off so many so quickly its confusing as to whom one is supposed to be cheering. It also makes it difficult to figure out who to boo as well. The villians are on screen just long enough to threaten the heroes, then the they die. The heroes are on screen just long enough to thwart the villians, then they got offed by the next generation. So far the few characters to survive of any merit are Jamie, and well, Jamie. Out of all the characters he seems to be the only one willing to change, or even show some ability to consider others, whether for good or ill. (I know people will try to contradict that, and only to shoot myself in the foot I admit it would be difficult for me to defend my position, as I'm terrible with names. Another problem with such a high body count: Too many names to remember.)

That said, I like the way it flows. If anything, it keeps a relatively fast pace, and it keeps things from becoming too black and white in regards to who is on which side. I haven't finished a Feast For Crows yet, mostly because I grew bored with it rather quickly. It was one of those things were I realized I was reading about some guy having an affair with some woman, but had absolutely no clue why they were there, or why they were even important, other then Maritn apparently wanted a gratuitous sex scene. Ah well, hopefully the next book contains a bit more excitement.

[Gavin Sage]

The problem is that the main characters are only barely defined as the main characters and I get the feeling that the books thus far have only been the setup for the real plot. He's sets up House Stark as the heroes seemingly, but the most important one does not bear the name for more then one reason. So we get invested in them, and watch the entire house get dumped on and dumped on.

[Pendragonx]

I've read the whole series to date...

in fact, I've met George R.R. Martin in person actually.. he was at Vericon at Harvard University a year or two ago ... got him to autograph my copy of A Feast For Crows

I would describe the whole series as 'dark fantasy', especially since Martin himself said he has a soft spot for tragedies.. which really isn't my cup of tea actually.. but I guess that's why everyone likes it so much.. it's different from the usually heroic fantasy that most people are familiar with.. Overall I would say I prefer the writting style of say, Terry Goodkind. However, after hearing Martin speak in person, I can definitely appreciate his storytelling.

btw.. Martin was asked who his favorite character was .. his reply: "Tyrion" ..however he added "no one is safe"! :smallamused:

[Jerthanis]

I apparently have an entirely different take on the book series, though I have only read the first two and am working on the third. I sympathize way more with the Lannisters than Robert or the Starks. Tyrion's the only one in the whole damn book series who really makes descisions with the best interests of the people at heart, Cersei was forced into a loveless marriage, and becomes overprotective of her baby, and Joffrey never matures as a result (though he's only 14 and never had a good male role model). Jaime is cursed up and down for doing the right bloody thing. Tywin loses points for being such a jerk to Tyrion, and he IS responsible for most of the atrocities of the war (though it seems clear to me that the other side is atrocitying right back at them)

Meanwhile of the Starks you have: Eddard, who would plunge the world into civil war over a meaningless distinction of parentage, and wouldn't take anything even resembling a compromise... It was like his life was a which way book and found the one ending in a hundred where he died.

You have Catiline, who functions like a drunken elephant when it comes to intrigue, and preaches caution like a broken record to any and all war councils. She gained Brianne as a sidekick because she wasn't interesting enough on her own. Add to this her unbelievable bungling with every clever scheme she tries, (letting Jaime escape? How did she THINK that'd end?)

You have Jon (who's my second favorite character) who is a giant prick until he's told he's acting like a giant prick, who acts moody and depressed all the time even though he's in an awesome position of honor and responsibility. He tries to run away for a silly and selfish reason without thinking it through at all.

You have Arya, who, with pretty good reason I must admit, has apparently no sympathy for anyone and a dark, killer instinct. She hates herself to sleep every night, chanting over and over the names of people she plans on murdering. She caused several deaths out of nothing but spite, and seems more than a little interested in joining what seems like a group that worships murder. Wonderful little lass this.

Then there's Bran with his joyfully boring chapters where he's got some sort of prophetic dreams going on, Robb with his lack of character development, apparently too busy making genius strategies that his seasoned generals are too stupid to make, and acting too perfect, and Sansa, who is close to the most annoying character ever, who got marginally cooler in the second book, but who's chapters in #1 were some of the most painful to read.
(I spoilered this because it had a lot of book 2 spoilers in it)

Yeah... I'm rooting for the Lannisters, or better yet, Dany.

Tyrion is far and away my favorite character though... I say Tyrion sits the throne proudly, with Shae by his side, and everyone else goes and sucks a lemon.

[DomaDoma]

Now that I've finished Clash of Kings, I have to say I've joined the Tyrion fan-club, and also...


Wow, bound to be resolved pretty early into the book my achin' ass. Thanks for not spoiling me, everyone.

As for the Lannister vs. Stark debate...

Nice how you can excuse Cersei and Joffrey but not Catelyn and Arya. Always seems to be a villain double-standard that way. Joffrey, in particular... I mean, if you want a sheltered kid in this series, try Sansa or Robert Arryn, not the one Cersei is priming for the throne and taking every opportunity to hasten the ascent. And I know it's not yet fully resolved, but that plot to assassinate Bran? Pure Joff. Growing up with all those subtle people (yes, including three men, though their maleness doesn't matter all that much), he really should know better. If he didn't arrange the assassination, that still goes for the way he thinks of everything as a blood sport. Meanwhile, Cersei's vindictive streak dwarfs everything else about her.

Jaime does actually strike me as fairly decent now, aside from the window incident, of course. First impressions weigh a lot, I s'pose, and my first impression of Jaime was Dany's.

All the Tully-Stark atrocities I can recall were performed by the Boltons. It need hardly be said that they have far less control over Roose Bolton than Tywin has over Gregor Clegane.

Eddard... really didn't seem to absorb that Robert dead meant the game would change. He was too concentrated on the first part.

Theon's the drunken elephant in the house. Catelyn's just the relative naif. But her maternal instinct is pretty overbearing. I hope she hears from Bran and Rickon soon so she can tone it down a notch.

Jon was a second-favorite of mine too, but somehow, I lost interest in him. Probably more on account of the wildlings than on his own terms; they just seemed so tame compared to everyone else's foes.

Weese's death was spite. I think Chiswyck really had it coming, though. The weasel soup was simply a bold stroke. At any rate, returning to Riverrun (though I guess nothing is certain, eh?) will be a godsend.

I like Bran - diff'rent strokes, I guess. You've kind of hit a sore point with Robb, but let it suffice to say I find him totally believable and I wonder where he'll be by the age of thirty (presuming, of course, that he lives that long).

It may be cruel of me to say it, but I'm much more fond of Sansa now that she's sobered up a bit.

If I were more interested in Jon, it wouldn't be the case, but Clash of Kings has an ending I can live with until I next visit the bookshop (July 20th! Ohhhh yeah!).

All in all, though, the vagaries of life in Westeros are getting to a point where I must retreat to a Bill Whittle position of "I'm glad I live in a culture that really is based on standards of common decency."

[CurlyKitGirl]

Most of you don't appear to have read all four books out at the moment so I will give a few points which are fairly major/important and will burst a few imagined scenarios.
1. Catelyn dies in bk 3, she then is well, zombieifed is the best I can think of and becomes a revenge driven moster. Why?
2. Robb dies. Why? He entered a treaty with the Freys I think (The really big family in the Neck) to marry a female relative of some sort. he married somenobe else. He and his mother as well as a lot of other people died in the Red Wedding in Bk 3.
3. Stark house is betrayed so Bran and that annoying 4 yr old split up and leave.
4. Sansa pretends to be Littlefingers' b*stard daughter. She might have to marry her cousin. The ruler of the Eyrie because of politics.
5. Joff marries Myrcella. When Joff dies she becomes sort-of-queen or something. Cersei claims that Myrcella is no longer a virgin because Myrcella drinks moon tea. Both she and Cersei are currently held prisoner in the Great Sept. Cersei because Stannis found out about the incest thing and pretty much let every single person on the continent find out.

Overall, I love this series and the detail all seems to fit. The most annoying part is that there are a lot of secondary characters. Jaime and Tyrion are probably my favs at the moment but that's likely to change. Oh, and Sansa finally grows up and starts acting her age!

[Mr._Blinky]

Most of you don't appear to have read all four books out at the moment so I will give a few points which are fairly major/important and will burst a few imagined scenarios.
1. Catelyn dies in bk 3, she then is well, zombieifed is the best I can think of and becomes a revenge driven moster. Why?
2. Robb dies. Why? He entered a treaty with the Freys I think (The really big family in the Neck) to marry a female relative of some sort. he married somenobe else. He and his mother as well as a lot of other people died in the Red Wedding in Bk 3.
3. Stark house is betrayed so Bran and that annoying 4 yr old split up and leave.
4. Sansa pretends to be Littlefingers' b*stard daughter. She might have to marry her cousin. The ruler of the Eyrie because of politics.
5. Joff marries Myrcella. When Joff dies she becomes sort-of-queen or something. Cersei claims that Myrcella is no longer a virgin because Myrcella drinks moon tea. Both she and Cersei are currently held prisoner in the Great Sept. Cersei because Stannis found out about the incest thing and pretty much let every single person on the continent find out.

Overall, I love this series and the detail all seems to fit. The most annoying part is that there are a lot of secondary characters. Jaime and Tyrion are probably my favs at the moment but that's likely to change. Oh, and Sansa finally grows up and starts acting her age!
Can't remember her name, but it isn't Myrcella. Myrcella is Joff's sister. Joff marries the Tyrell daughter, can't remember her name.

[Siwenna]

I like the series a lot (I've read the first 3 books). One of the things that appeals to me is how unheroic the heroes are.

I actually dislike JOn Snow, unlike many here, it seems. His personality changes almost overnight, just because of one thing someone tells him. Even so, he's constantly obsessing over little things without considering the larger issues. His whole thought process strikes me as odd.

I do love Arya. I think her vicious streak is endearing. She's smart, strong willed, and is willing to kill people who should be killed. It's a nice departer from the usual overly-merciful good-guy. Tyrion is really interesting, though I don't particularly like him.

Most of the other characters I find mildly annoying, but I HATE Catelyn. I absolutely loathe her. I despised her from the start and hoped that she would die.* SHe is by far my least favorite fictional character, in general, not just in this series. My hate for her knows no bounds (it really is unhealthy, considering that she is fictional.) But yeah, I absolutely abhor her.

*I was thrilled when she died. I just hope resurrected Catelyn shares as few as possible of her predecessors qualities (if you can call them that)

[valadil]

Love the series. I don't have much to add aside from pointing out that I read it twice and it was very different the second time through. I paid more attention to the characters I didn't like the first time. Sansa actually does grow up a bit, believe it or not. It's just more subtle with her. I really like how 95% of the people in the world aren't black and white good or bad guys.

I'm not sure why, but Sam Tarly kinda feels like he's Martin's avatar in the world. Does anyone else see this or is it just me?

Do the brothers Clegane remind anyone else of WWE's Undertaker and Kane? For that matter does anyone else on these boards admit to watching wrestling?

Is Cersei a fantasy version of Ann Coulter? I've been tempted to go to cons just to ask GRRM this in person, but they've never actually worked out.

[Alarra]

This is one of my favorite series. Because of the darkness, not in spite of it. But then, I'm an odd one and prefer tragedy and realism in my stories and looooooooooove that you can't 'assume' someone's safe because they're a main character. I like that they die, it's realistic. And the way their deaths are sometimes barely even touched on, where in any other series it would be cause for the whole cast to mourn, I find striking.

I will admit that I was not quite as impressed with the latest book. But that's more a product of the sheer number of characters and the fact that my favorites were moved over to Dance with Dragons, than any real dislike of his writing.

I love Dany and Arya. Love them.