Help with Building a Healer/Face in a low magic setting

[AlmaPheonix]

Hey all,

So my Paladin/Bard died in my campaign's season finale last night, as did the party rogue and other paladin. The remaining party is a switch hitter ranger (that doesn't do range often), a ranger/magus that is going to go arcane archer, and the twf fighter. The paladin's and rogue's players have already decided they are going to play a unchained monk and straight fighter (though we have a few weeks off, cuz season finale, they may change it up. But, I'm fairly certain the monk is going to be a monk).

So tl:dr, we lost all our healing (the two paladins) and party face (me), and the other players are going for more combat/specialized skill roles.

The kicker is that, for it to be low magic we can only take HALF of our levels OR less in any casting class (rangers, paladins and other classes that get spells at 4th or later are fine). We have very limited access to magic items, so relying on wands and stuff isn't really an option either.

So, my request is this. How can I build a support character that, while obviously not optimized, isn't useless once they run out of spells/extracts/potions? In combat and out? I'm not too keen on running a pali again, even though they would synergize would a lot of healer classes. I really like witch but it doesn't really synergize well with combat classes, so someone that can cast in light armor is probably the best idea. Though I do like the witch from the woods kind of vibe.

We're currently level 7 and have a 15 point buy. I'd prefer core races but I'm open to others (though I doubt aasimar would be okayed by my gm), and no Advanced Class Guide except for slashing and fencing grace. And the character needs to be able to heal, support and maybe be the party face at least a little, while not being totally useless in combat when out of magic. Any suggestions?

[Jeff the Green]

I know you're not keen on Paladin, but an Oradin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-Or-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot) seems to fit the bill.

An initiator with access to Silver Crane would fit the bill as well.

If you're into homebrew, I made these feats recently
Name
description
Prerequisites:
Benefits:
Special:

What is a knightly class?
A knightly class is one that has a martial focus and demands of its members a particular code of conduct or alignment. Few have spells, and arcane or psionic abilities are exceedingly rare. The knightly base classes are:
CrusaderToB
KnightPHBII
MarshalMH
Paladin
SamuraiOA or CW
SoheiOA
SoulbornMoI

Similar prestige classes, such as Fist of RazielBoED, CavalierCW, or Holy LiberatorCD, or prestige classes that progress unique features of a knightly class, such as Ruby Knight VindicatorToB, Argent FistFoE, or Bone Knight5N are also considered knightly classes.

Knight Initiate
description
Prerequisites: Must be qualified to join a knightly order and sponsored by an existing member or patron of the order, BAB +1
Benefits: You gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Intimidate and the membership benefits of your knightly order.
Special: You lose the benefit of this feat if you ever violate your knightly order's code of conduct or if you lose the class features of a knightly class due to to violating its code of conduct or shifting to an incompatible alignment until you receive an atonement spell. If you join a different knightly order, you lose the membership benefits of your original order and gain the membership benefits of the new one.

Knight Despotic
The code you follow is strict, demanding obedience of you and those you command.
Prerequisites: Knight Initiate, membership in an order of knights despotic, BAB +2
Benefits: You gain a bonus to Intimidate equal to half your levels in knightly classes, and a target you successfully intimidate suffers lasting effects. Instead of ending when the you leave, as is normal for the Intimidate skill, the intimidation effect lasts for 24 hours after your departure. Thereafter, the target’s attitude toward you shifts to unfriendly. If you have the Never Outnumbered Skill Trick, you can use it at will.
Special: You must demand obedience from your lessers and give it to your superiors. You must punish anyone who disobeys commands given to them by you or by their legitimate superior, and you must obey commands given by your legitimate superiors. Any punishment you mete out can be proportionate to the offense, but should be public or otherwise able to serve as a warning to others. Because of this obligation, knights despotic are typically careful to give commands only when they are actually justified and to distinguish between commands and requests.

If you tolerate disobedience in violation of this code, you take a -2 penalty to Intimidate checks until you receive an atonement. Each additional time you violate this restriction the penalty increases, and if you violate it even after the penalty has reached -10 you immediately lose the benefit of this feat until you receive an atonement. You also immediately lose the benefit of this feat if you disobey a a command given to you by a legitimate superior.

Knight Errant
You are a member of a wandering order, who searches out quests to be taken up and honorable deeds to be done across the land.
Prerequisites: Knight Initiate, membership in an order of knights errant, BAB +2
Benefits: Your land speed increases by 10 ft., and by an additional 10 ft. for each level you have in a knightly class and you can travel for an additional eight hours a day before needing to make Constitution checks for making a forced march. If you have a special mount, animal cohort, or similar bonded creature, their land speed also gains this benefit while you ride it.

In addition, any magical item, spell, feat, or other effect that grants you a new movement speed or increases an existing one has a doubled duration and the speed granted or the movement speed that is improved is increased by 20 ft. If you have a special mount, animal cohort, or similar bonded creature, they gain the benefit of any such magical item, spell, feat, or effect affecting you while you ride it, including the enhanced movement speed.
Special: You must never remain in one place for long. In any round that you do not move at least 5 ft. you take a -2 penalty to attack rolls. You must also travel at least fifteen miles each day, and can never sleep closer than five miles to where you slept the previous night. Teleportation does not fulfill this obligation. If you fail to meet this obligation you lose the benefit of this feat until you receive an atonement.

Knight Hospitaller
You have joined an order of knights that offers mercy and healing to all who desire it.
Prerequisites: Membership in an order of knights hospitaller, BAB +2
Benefits: You gain a +2 bonus on Heal checks. If you have the ability to lay on hands the number of hit points of damage you can heal each day is doubled. When you have ten levels in knightly classes it is instead trippled, when you have 15 levels in knightly classes it is instead multiplied by four, and when you have 20 levels in knightly classes it is instead multiplied by five. If you have the ability to use Devoted Spirit maneuvers any time you could heal yourself or an ally with a maneuver (including stances) you add half the number of levels you have in knightly classes to the damage healed.
Special: You must accept any surrender offered, even if you suspect or know that it is insincere, though you may demand that the surrendering creature disarm themselves and accept appropriate restraints such as manacles or bindings to prevent escape or a gag to prevent a spellcaster from casting. You can never perform a coup de grace, nor deal lethal damage to a helpless creature. You must share any food or shelter to any needy creature who requests it and, if you have the ability to cure diseases or poisons or to remove other ailments you must help any creature you come across that suffers from such an ailment.

If you refuse to share food or shelter or to remove a sufferer's ailments, you take a -2 penalty to Heal checks and a -1 penalty to your AC until you receive an atonement. Each additional time you violate this restriction theses penalties increase, and if you violate it even after the penalty to Heal checks has reached -10 you immediately lose the benefit of this feat until you receive an atonement. You also immediately lose the benefit of this feat if you refuse a surrender, harm anyone who has surrendered themselves to you unless they attempt escape or attack someone who does not first attack them, or perform a coup de grace until you receive an atonement.

Knight Mendicant
Your knightly order demands that you forswear ever owning your own property, but in exchange you gain spiritual power you can channel into your weapons and armor.
Prerequisites: Knight Initiate, membership in an order of knights mendicant, BAB +2

Benefits: Any non=magical masterwork armor or shield you wear and any non-magical masterwork weapon you wield gain an enhancement bonus of +1 per four levels you have in knightly classes. In addition, by meditating with your equipment for eight hours you can give your equipment special abilities. These abilities must have a market price of no more than shown in the table.



Level in knightly classes
Armor abilities
Shield abilities
Weapon abilities


3–5
+1 or 1000 GP
+1 or 1000 GP
–


6–8
+2 or as level 3–5 plus 3000 GP
+1 or 1000 GP
+1 or 2,000 GP


9–11
+4 or as level 6–8 plus 12,000 GP
+2 or as level 6–8 plus 3000 GP
+2 or as level 6–8 plus 6000 GP


12–14
+6 or as level 9–11 plus 20,000 GP
+3 or as level 9–11 plus 5000 GP
+4 or as level 9–11 plus 24,000 GP


15–17
+8 or as level 12–14 plus 28,000 GP
+4 or as level 12–14 plus 7000 GP
+8 or as level 12–14 plus 48,000 GP


18+
+10 or as level 15–17 plus 36,000 GP
+5 or as level 15–17 plus 9000 GP
+10 or as level 15–17 plus 72,000 GP



If you have Two Weapon Fighting you can give two melee weapons (including a shield) each the same set of weapon special abilities. If you have Agile Shield Fighter you can give a melee weapon and a shield each the same set of weapon special abilities.

Special: The items you are allowed to possess is highly restricted. You may own only property that directly increases your effectiveness as a knight. In general, this refers only to mounts, worn items that increase combat prowess, wands and scrolls typically used in battle, armor, shields, weapons, and items that heal, though it may include such items as a Circlet of Persuasion if your knightly order values avoiding war, for example. It never includes items that primarily provide comfort or convenience (such as a Travel Cloak) or land. You may carry with you enough simple food such as grains, vegetables, and fruit to sustain you (and your mount or other companion creature, if any) for the duration of a quest, trip, or expedition, but must otherwise rely on the charity of others. (In almost any community larger than a village you can find a church, chapter house, or lord's estate willing to feed you with a DC 10 Gather Information, Knowledge (local), or Knowledge (nobility and royalty) check.) In addition, you must donate 50% of any treasure you acquire to your knightly order. (Technically, you are donating all treasure to your knightly order and your order is allowing you to requisition a certain number of items as you see fit.)

You can use items you have foresworn that belong to another. However, you may not carry them for more than three minutes a day, wear them, or otherwise act as though they belong to you. You must claim an equal (or otherwise fair) proportion of treasure you acquire as member of a team in order to donate it to your order.

If a character starts the game with this feat (i.e. by starting at level 2 or higher), they start with only half as much wealth as they normally would.

If you violate this restriction you lose the benefit of this feat until you receive an atonement.

Knight Valiant
Your order demands that you be the first into battle and the last to leave.
Prerequisites: Knight Initiate, membership in an order of knights valiant, BAB +2
Benefits: You gain a +2 bonus to Initiative and a +2 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls against enemies who have struck you or an ally with a weapon or natural attack during the current combat. Any allies adjacent to you also gain a bonus to their armor class equal to ⅓ of your base attack bonus, or ⅓ of your base attack bonus if you wear a shield.
Special: You can never leave the reach of an enemy that threatens both you and an ally except to move closer to it or another enemy that threatens both you and an ally. You must never flee from combat unless all of your allies (and their corpses, if one has fallen) escape with you. You must also never back down from a challenge offered you (unless accepting it would ootherwise violate the code of conduct of one of your knightly classes or your knightly order) nor allow an insult to you, your allies, your order, or any country or lord to whcih you pledge allegiance to go unanswered. You need not necessarily respond with violence; a verbal rebuke is typically enough to satisfy your honor.

If you violate this restriction, you take a -1 penalty to attack and damage rolls until you receive an atonement. Each additional time you violate this restriction the penalty increases, and if you violate it even after the penalty has reached -5 you immediately lose the benefit of this feat until you receive an atonement.

Paragon Despotic
description
Prerequisites: Knight Despotic, Concentration 5, Intimidate 10, base attack bonus +10
Benefits: You become immune to charms, compulsions, and all other effects that would alter your behavior.

Paragon Errant
Your devotion to your knightly order has given you extraordinary mobility in combat.
Prerequisites: Knight Errant, Jump 5, Tumble 5, base attack bonus +10
Benefits: You or any creature you ride can move up to your speed as a swift action.

Paragon Hospitaller
As the sincerest of healers and greatest of knights, you can
Prerequisites: Knight Hospitaller, Heal +10, base attack bonus +10
Benefits: You can use create food and water, neutralize poison, remove disease, and restoration as spell-like abilities a combined number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier and heroes feast and revivifyas spell-like abilities each once per week. Your caster level is equal to your levels in knightly classes.

Paragon Mendicant
The inner power granted by your devotion
Prerequisites: Knight Mendicant, Ride 10, base attack bonus +10, must have a cohort, animal companion, special mount, or similar companion creature.
Benefits: As long as you ride it, any barding your special mount (or similar companion creature) wears gains the same special abilities granted to your armor by the Knight Mendicant feat and its primary natural attack gains the same special abilities granted to your weapon by the Knight Mendicant feat. (if it has the Multiattack feat, its secondary natural weapons gain the special abilities as well.)

Paragon Valiant
You are a brilliant example of knightdom and your sheer prowess with weaponry makes your enemies quail
Prerequisites: Knight Valiant, Intimidate 5, Perform (weapon drill) 5, base attack bonus +10
Benefits: When you make a full attack and deal damage to at least one enemy you may attempt to demoralize one enemy you dealt damage to as a free action. Instead of an Intimidate check you make a Perform (weapon drill) check opposed by the opponent's modified level check, and if you beat your opponent's check you gain a +2 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls for one round. If you made a successful critical hit against the enemy in your full attack you gain a +5 bonus on your Perform (weapon drill) check. Regardless of who wins the opposed check you cannot use this ability against the same creature again for 24 hours.

Knight/Paragon Hospitaller would help out (just swap Silver Crane for Devoted Spirit).

[Psyren]

Are occult/psychic classes allowed? If so, I'd recommend the Medium (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/medium) - they are 4th-level casters, Charisma-based, get all the face skills as class skills, and their Hierophant spirit makes them solid healers. They're a bit like a psychic take on the Binder from 3.5, and like the Binder, they are a solid addition to any party.

Channeling the Hierophant can boost your spellcasting up to 6ths, but you can simply choose to ignore the bonus spells it grants you and stick with your normal allotment.

[AlmaPheonix]

Unfortunately, no 3rd party or home brew. I should have mentioned that. And I doubt psychics would be. It sounds really interesting otherwise.

And I didn't consider an oradin. Maybe I could just flavor it differently... hm, suggestions on how to build that? Or any others?

[Psyren]

Unfortunately, no 3rd party or home brew. I should have mentioned that. And I doubt psychics would be. It sounds really interesting otherwise.

Occult classes are first-party (http://paizo.com/products/btpy9egu), unless that wasn't directed at me. You could even use a Medium in PFS.

There's a handbook to the Oradin out there somewhere, but keep in mind being limited to 10 levels of Oracle could hurt at high levels (if you get there.)

[AlmaPheonix]

Sorry Psyren, but it's my GM. He likes to check things that are new so I donno if he'd allow it.

As for oradin, I found a guide and it does seem helpful and usually campaigns with this DM don't go beyond 15 but I don't know yet for this campaign. Guess it depend on how much we get done in season 2. Oradin seems the best bet unless there are other suggestions. If I take divine hunter, I could be ranged support, seeing as we only have one of those.

This could work. Thanks guys. :3

[Coidzor]

An Oradin Miniguide, even. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-Or-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot)

I think <10 levels can work, though, just a different flavor of options exists.

[Beowulf DW]

Thirdsees on the Oradin ranged support build. Although, I would highly recommend looking into Psyren's suggestion about the Medium. Occult classes are 1st party, so unless your DM feels that it's somehow not appropriate for the campaign, there shouldn't much of a problem.

There's also the Alchemist, if you make the right choices in building your character. It's hardly as effective as the Oradin at healing, but it is a possibility. You'd get to toss bombs around, too.

[Coidzor]

Life link and the right kind of tumor familiar can be fun, certainly.

[Jeff the Green]

There's a handbook to the Oradin out there somewhere, but keep in mind being limited to 10 levels of Oracle could hurt at high levels (if you get there.)

It was linked in the second post, even. :smalltongue:

[AlmaPheonix]

It was linked in the second post, even. :smalltongue:

I saw this after I responded the first time. ^^; It was the first I looked into. I'm considering going ranged, if I do oradin, seeing as we'll have so many people up in melee we don't really need another.

I was considering going with an alchemist but it just didn't strike me as right for the character I wanted to play, which is interesting cuz I normally like intelligence based characters. I may be able to be convinced tho.

[Psyren]

Alchemist would be great if you can swing that, but they are technically 6th-level casters so I figured that would be off the table.

Oradin is definitely solid but personally I'd find them a bit boring. It's one specific build rather than a class that can be taken in multiple directions.

[AlmaPheonix]

Yeah, pure alchemist wouldn't work but I did consider a rogue/vivisectionist alchemist. I wouldn't fall behind on SA and I could use the mutagen to make up for a less than stellar BAB. And I could use brew potion to make cure lights and etc. But I felt kinda eh about it.

And yeah, oradins seem to work with only 1 or 2 builds. It's making it hard for me to figure out how I'd play it if I made one, role play wise I mean.

[Beowulf DW]

Yeah, pure alchemist wouldn't work but I did consider a rogue/vivisectionist alchemist. I wouldn't fall behind on SA and I could use the mutagen to make up for a less than stellar BAB. And I could use brew potion to make cure lights and etc. But I felt kinda eh about it.

And yeah, oradins seem to work with only 1 or 2 builds. It's making it hard for me to figure out how I'd play it if I made one, role play wise I mean.

It likely wouldn't be much different from the standard paladin, but with more effective battle healing. The whole point of the Oradin is to be a capable healer while also being an effective combatant. I suppose that the curse might be something to consider, but that's a minor point for the Oradin.

[Psyren]

You can use Infusion and Infuse Mutagen to hand out more than just potions.

I would multiclass with Unchained Rogue rather than Rogue - the Debilitating Injuries will also boost your effective BAB via bewildering their AC, making your lower iteratives much more likely to hit.

Another alternative to consider is a PrC - many reduce your casting, letting you effectively go from 6th to 4th-level casting in exchange for some unique features. For example, you could go for a Dragon Disciple build using Bard or Bloodrager.

[Spore]

Vivisectionist Alchemist 3/Rogue 4 might still be the way to go. You have the skills and you can brew A LOT of healing potions (potions not extracts). Your crafting speed is increased, your checks are very safe and you contribute to battle with Sneak Attacks.