Warlock/Bard of Lore - Pact Boon

[Dr. Cliché]

In terms of making a Bard of Lore with a dip in Warlock, do you think it's worth taking 3 levels of Warlock for the Pact Boon?

[Specter]

I would, just for the extra ritual spells. You're interested in lore, after all.

[JellyPooga]

It's very dependent.

What are you looking to get out of Warlock? 3rd level Warlock also gives you an extra Warlock spell known and upgrades your Pact Magic to Lvl.2 spells as well. That's significant in itself. The specific Pact Boon you're looking for makes a difference too;
- Pact of the Tome is probably not worth it; the few extra Cantrips you get are not going to be that significant and even if you switch an Invocation for Book of Ancient Secrets, it's still not much cop because the Ritual Casting aspect of that Invocation is dependent on Warlock level, not Character level.
- Pact of the Chain will likely stand you in good stead for a good chunk of your campaign; the utility of (some of) the improved familiars over the standard selection remains significant well into double-digit levels, if not actually into the highest echelons of play.
- Pact of the Blade is also unlikely to prove all that useful. Not being able to improve upon its use with either Thirsting Blade or Lifedrinker means all you're getting is a weapon you can't lose and has the potential for slightly higher base melee damage.

You've also got to consider the Bard abilities that you're delaying to take that dip in Warlock. If your build is Bard 1-3/Warlock X and you definitely don't want to take 4 levels of Warlock, then you're delaying your first ASI/Feat until at least level 7 (assuming no further multiclassing); only one level before everyone else will be getting their 2nd one. You'll also be delaying (Extra) Magical Secrets, higher level Bard magic as well as the other Bard features.

[Blue Lantern]

You'll be losing the magical secret at lvl 18, aka 2 lvl 9 spells from any class list.
Imho not worth.

[JellyPooga]

You'll be losing the magical secret at lvl 18, aka 2 lvl 9 spells from any class list.
Imho not worth.

Not to disagree with this, but it is, of course, only relevant if the campaign plays that long. Certainly worthy of consideration though.

[Citan]

In terms of making a Bard of Lore with a dip in Warlock, do you think it's worth taking 3 levels of Warlock for the Pact Boon?
Hi!
As always with this kind of question... It depends. :)

If you plan on being a full caster then, probably not. As someone above said, getting hands on two levels 9 spells from any class in addition to your own is very hard to pass by...
Unless of course your character concept could be satisfied with only one lvl 9 spell from his class. But this should be at the very least a thoughtful decision.

However, as soon as you drop the idea of "full caster character" and...
a) Start going into multiclass concepts...
b) OR if you don't care about the chance of getting to lvl 20 someday...
c) OR if you consider a pact to fill a void in your party...
Then if becomes a perfectly sound choice, as long as you think beforehand.

Chain Tome can help greatly with Lore Bard survivability, scouting and long range communication, for a good half of your career. If you're crafty enough, it also brings some "touch-spell" shenanigans that can make you proud of yourself. ;)

Blade can bootstrap a concept of "alternative Valor Bard" in which you get interesting self-buffs (or you just want some Invocations). I cannot find a reason why mechanically a Valor Bard wouldn't fit, but I'm sure we could easily find concepts that aren't reallly Valor Bard nor Bladelocks. Probably the hardest of the three Tomes to put to good use though, and only if you put quite an investment in the Warlock class (at the very least 5).

Tome is by far the easiest to exploit and can be great on many Lore Bards.
First, if only Shillelagh can be worth it by providing a decent melee attack when needed, effectively making the Bard a single stat class. Especially when paired with a melee cantrip from SCAG, all of which are available to Warlock.

This becomes even truer in smart builds which focus on tanking by the use of Sentinel, Polearm Master or Warcaster, or gearing into melee while concentrating on Spirit Guardians.

Second, many cantrips can be useful, either situationnally (Thorn Whip) or on constant basis (Guidance).

Third, the Rituals Invocation, even if you stop at Warlock 3, gives you potentiel access to already around 60% of all rituals, which is great enough.

TL;DR
If you want to be a "100% full caster", no (lvl 18 Magic Secrets).
If you are ready to cross lvl 18 Magical Secrets, then Tome Pact is the one that can be useful to any concept.
In all other cases, dipping the 3rd level in Warlock CAN be a good idea but only if it's a reasonable mean to achieve a specific character concept (which preferably doesn't rely on a single trick) so it should be thought about wth care beforehand.

[Blue Lantern]

Not to disagree with this, but it is, of course, only relevant if the campaign plays that long. Certainly worthy of consideration though.

But if it doesn't you are still delaying your spell progression and renouncing one or two spell levels (eg if the campaign stops at 15 with 3 lvls of Warlock you can only reach 6th lvl spells)
As Citan says above if you want to go full caster is not the best idea.

But even if you don't want to, I personally don't think that Bard and Warlock have so good a synergy.
Just my 2 cents.

[Dr. Cliché]

It's very dependent.

What are you looking to get out of Warlock? 3rd level Warlock also gives you an extra Warlock spell known and upgrades your Pact Magic to Lvl.2 spells as well. That's significant in itself. The specific Pact Boon you're looking for makes a difference too;
- Pact of the Tome is probably not worth it; the few extra Cantrips you get are not going to be that significant and even if you switch an Invocation for Book of Ancient Secrets, it's still not much cop because the Ritual Casting aspect of that Invocation is dependent on Warlock level, not Character level.
- Pact of the Chain will likely stand you in good stead for a good chunk of your campaign; the utility of (some of) the improved familiars over the standard selection remains significant well into double-digit levels, if not actually into the highest echelons of play.
- Pact of the Blade is also unlikely to prove all that useful. Not being able to improve upon its use with either Thirsting Blade or Lifedrinker means all you're getting is a weapon you can't lose and has the potential for slightly higher base melee damage.

You've also got to consider the Bard abilities that you're delaying to take that dip in Warlock. If your build is Bard 1-3/Warlock X and you definitely don't want to take 4 levels of Warlock, then you're delaying your first ASI/Feat until at least level 7 (assuming no further multiclassing); only one level before everyone else will be getting their 2nd one. You'll also be delaying (Extra) Magical Secrets, higher level Bard magic as well as the other Bard features.

I was looking at Pact of the Chain. I thought a familiar might be fun. Possibly an imp with a miniature version of whatever instrument I play.


You'll be losing the magical secret at lvl 18, aka 2 lvl 9 spells from any class list.
Imho not worth.

That's a good point, though our campaigns rarely ever reach those levels.


Hi!
As always with this kind of question... It depends. :)

If you plan on being a full caster then, probably not. As someone above said, getting hands on two levels 9 spells from any class in addition to your own is very hard to pass by...
Unless of course your character concept could be satisfied with only one lvl 9 spell from his class. But this should be at the very least a thoughtful decision.

However, as soon as you drop the idea of "full caster character" and...
a) Start going into multiclass concepts...
b) OR if you don't care about the chance of getting to lvl 20 someday...
c) OR if you consider a pact to fill a void in your party...
Then if becomes a perfectly sound choice, as long as you think beforehand.

Chain Tome can help greatly with Lore Bard survivability, scouting and long range communication, for a good half of your career. If you're crafty enough, it also brings some "touch-spell" shenanigans that can make you proud of yourself. ;)

Blade can bootstrap a concept of "alternative Valor Bard" in which you get interesting self-buffs (or you just want some Invocations). I cannot find a reason why mechanically a Valor Bard wouldn't fit, but I'm sure we could easily find concepts that aren't reallly Valor Bard nor Bladelocks. Probably the hardest of the three Tomes to put to good use though, and only if you put quite an investment in the Warlock class (at the very least 5).

Tome is by far the easiest to exploit and can be great on many Lore Bards.
First, if only Shillelagh can be worth it by providing a decent melee attack when needed, effectively making the Bard a single stat class. Especially when paired with a melee cantrip from SCAG, all of which are available to Warlock.

This becomes even truer in smart builds which focus on tanking by the use of Sentinel, Polearm Master or Warcaster, or gearing into melee while concentrating on Spirit Guardians.

Second, many cantrips can be useful, either situationnally (Thorn Whip) or on constant basis (Guidance).

Third, the Rituals Invocation, even if you stop at Warlock 3, gives you potentiel access to already around 60% of all rituals, which is great enough.

TL;DR
If you want to be a "100% full caster", no (lvl 18 Magic Secrets).
If you are ready to cross lvl 18 Magical Secrets, then Tome Pact is the one that can be useful to any concept.
In all other cases, dipping the 3rd level in Warlock CAN be a good idea but only if it's a reasonable mean to achieve a specific character concept (which preferably doesn't rely on a single trick) so it should be thought about wth care beforehand.

Thanks for that.

Out of curiosity, what about a Pact of the Blade Warlock with Valour Bard?


But if it doesn't you are still delaying your spell progression and renouncing one or two spell levels (eg if the campaign stops at 15 with 3 lvls of Warlock you can only reach 6th lvl spells)
As Citan says above if you want to go full caster is not the best idea.

But even if you don't want to, I personally don't think that Bard and Warlock have so good a synergy.
Just my 2 cents.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Bard and Warlock lack synergy?

[Socratov]

snip

Out of curiosity, what about a Pact of the Blade Warlock with Valour Bard?

well, pact fo the blade requires some dedication to your patron and most definitley needs at least 6 lvls of warlock, maybe even more to really make use of it. Unless you want to only use it to get a unique weapon or a chance to use devil spears shenanigans I recommend against taking pact of the blade. You also need a way to apply stuff to your blade like sneak attack or something else to make it viable. Bards usually don't have this.


If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Bard and Warlock lack synergy?

I think beucase while bard revovles around supporting others through its inspire feature and the spells bard gets, while the warlock is more focused on himself or debuffing a specific enemy. That said, I think a valor bard could benefit greatly from Armour of Agathys...

[Blue Lantern]

If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Bard and Warlock lack synergy?

I feel that, despite the fact that they have the same main stat, the Warlock do not add much to the bard (except the usual Eldritch + Agonising blast), while the synergy with Sorcerer (for sorcery points) or Paladin (for the smites) is bigger.

Pact of the blade is worthless for a dip in my opinion, especially for a lore bard, for a valour bard can be better, as you don't have to waste an invocation for the extra attack, but the main draw of that pact is the lifedrinker invocation, which requires 12 levels of warlock.

Pact of the chain is nice for the roleplay aspect, but for a pure optimization standpoint getting higher spell levels faster is better.

Pact of the tome is the better one for multiclassing, getting low levels ritual and a few more cantrip is nice, but depending on what you want you can use the ASI that you would miss with the multi classing to get magic initiate or ritual caster to fill that niche if needed.

EDIT

... I just realized that I gave a suggestion for optimization over roleplaying ... I feel dirty.

[Dr. Cliché]

well, pact fo the blade requires some dedication to your patron and most definitley needs at least 6 lvls of warlock, maybe even more to really make use of it. Unless you want to only use it to get a unique weapon or a chance to use devil spears shenanigans I recommend against taking pact of the blade. You also need a way to apply stuff to your blade like sneak attack or something else to make it viable. Bards usually don't have this.

Ah, that's a good point. I'd forgotten that You really need the other Invocations to give you an extra attack and damage with your weapon.



I think beucase while bard revovles around supporting others through its inspire feature and the spells bard gets, while the warlock is more focused on himself or debuffing a specific enemy. That said, I think a valor bard could benefit greatly from Armour of Agathys...

Fair enough.



Pact of the chain is nice for the roleplay aspect, but for a pure optimization standpoint getting higher spell levels faster is better.

That's a shame. Thanks for your reply, anyway.

[Citan]

Thanks for that.

1) Out of curiosity, what about a Pact of the Blade Warlock with Valour Bard?

2) If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Bard and Warlock lack synergy?

1) Frankly, I did not try this combination so I'll let people with experience of it talk about it. I think there will be some redundancy between features though, but it may be worth it?

2) While this point is another discussion, allow me to jump in and second your question. For me, Bard and Warlock actually gets potent multiclass builds, although maybe "synergy" is not the best word to describe it. Rather "complementarity".
Bard is all about debuffing, but has no good cantrip and only mediocre attack at best if Valor.
Warlock is all about offense for the most part, either with cantrips, weapons or spells.
I personnally find Warlock a great dip for many Bards, in the limit of what has been said already obviously. ;)

* Lore Bard 6+ could greatly help a Bladelock: beyond skills expand, you get your hands on Bestow Curse which you can cast with your Warlock slots (= non-concentration), you get a few low level spell slots for utility such as Mirror Image, Armor of Agathys and Hex so you can keep your Warlock slots for big ones, and Expertise will help with Sneaking (ex: Greater Invisibility) and Grappling.

* Eldricht Blast and melee cantrips put any Bard on par with most other casters in terms of melee damage, even without learning specific Invocations. This means the Bard can still contribute to the fight when Vicious Mockery start losing potency or when he doesn't have slots left.

* Many Invocations can help a Bard in the primary role(s) he's chosen to assume in his party, while avoiding him to spend learnt spells and slots on this: party face, sneaking, scout, scholar etc...

* Same can be said with Tome Pact + invocation that brings ritual learning: Bard has some interesting rituals on its list, but it's a tough choice whether to sacrifice precious spell known on them. Gaining potential access to all lvl 1 and lvl 2 spells with a dip as low as 3 is really good... If your DM is nice with you. :)

* Some Invocations that seem a bit lackluster for a pure Warlock can actually become good if combined with Bard's Magic Secret (like One With Shadows that doesn't break invisibility when you take a bonus action, or Fiendish Viguor which would otherwise become useless past the few first levels).

* Others bring a strong benefit for any Bard, such as free Mage Armor (especially for DEX Bards) or darkvision (nice to still be able to cast a spell against one that thought being unseen so protected ;)).

[Blue Lantern]

That's a shame. Thanks for your reply, anyway.

Now I feel bad :frown: I mean, you can go for the pact of the chain, even if not the best optimization it can still be useful in many ways, and one of the good things of 5e is that you don't have to go for the super optimization to be useful.


2) While this point is another discussion, allow me to jump in and second your question. For me, Bard and Warlock actually gets potent multiclass builds, although maybe "synergy" is not the best word to describe it. Rather "complementarity".
Bard is all about debuffing, but has no good cantrip and only mediocre attack at best if Valor.
Warlock is all about offense for the most part, either with cantrips, weapons or spells.
I personnally find Warlock a great dip for many Bards, in the limit of what has been said already obviously. ;)

* Lore Bard 6+ could greatly help a Bladelock: beyond skills expand, you get your hands on Bestow Curse which you can cast with your Warlock slots (= non-concentration), you get a few low level spell slots for utility such as Mirror Image, Armor of Agathys and Hex so you can keep your Warlock slots for big ones, and Expertise will help with Sneaking (ex: Greater Invisibility) and Grappling.

* Eldricht Blast and melee cantrips put any Bard on par with most other casters in terms of melee damage, even without learning specific Invocations. This means the Bard can still contribute to the fight when Vicious Mockery start losing potency or when he doesn't have slots left.

* Many Invocations can help a Bard in the primary role(s) he's chosen to assume in his party, while avoiding him to spend learnt spells and slots on this: party face, sneaking, scout, scholar etc...

* Same can be said with Tome Pact + invocation that brings ritual learning: Bard has some interesting rituals on its list, but it's a tough choice whether to sacrifice precious spell known on them. Gaining potential access to all lvl 1 and lvl 2 spells with a dip as low as 3 is really good... If your DM is nice with you. :)

* Some Invocations that seem a bit lackluster for a pure Warlock can actually become good if combined with Bard's Magic Secret (like One With Shadows that doesn't break invisibility when you take a bonus action, or Fiendish Viguor which would otherwise become useless past the few first levels).

* Others bring a strong benefit for any Bard, such as free Mage Armor (especially for DEX Bards) or darkvision (nice to still be able to cast a spell against one that thought being unseen so protected ;)).

I already put some reasoning in a previous post, but if you want I can elaborate a bit.

Warlock is a good multiclassing option by itself because he ha a lot of frontloaded option that can be used by themselves, but for me it does not synergies with the bard especially well, not on the same level as it does sorcerer or paladin at least, even rogue or fighter I think are better for a warlock multiclassing than a bard.

1) To be effective with a lore bard a bladelock requires at minimum lvl 5 for extra attach or lvl 12 for lifedrink, and in the end it only seems to me an over complicated way of creating something similar to a valor bard. Personally I believe that rogue 2/bladelock 18 is better than lore bard 6\bladelock 14 for what you are proposing.

2) 3 lvl dip means forgoing an ASI or Feat, that can be used to get the cantrips with magic initiate, if the bard really need the damage. Yes the Eldritch + agonizing blast can not be replicated, but I specifically put it as an exception and is something that other multiclassing option can use even better.

4) I specifically said that Tome is the best option for dip in any case, but even there there is always the choice of taking ritual casting if really needed, in any case the option is probably not worth the delay in spell levels.

3, 5, 6) Yes invocation are nice, but with a 3 lvl dip you only get 2, and that if renouncing agonizing blast, all in all, considering the bard is the best skill class in the game, the advantage of some invocation seems minimal, while other (like magic armor) give marginal bonuses. Yes teh darkvision one is extremely good, but it is for every class, not specifically bard, and again I believe there are better options for warlock multiclassing.

NOTE- I am not sure I got some of your comment, for instance I am not aware that using warlock slots let you forgo concentration, the opposite in fact, I also am not sure why you think Fiendish Vigour gains valour with the bard spell secrets.

That said, this is just my opinion, I do not pretend to be right at all cost.

[JeffreyGator]

I would wonder if there are other ways to gain the same flexibility that 2-3 levels of warlock offers to a lore bard.

If your lore bard has more than +1 bonus in knowledge skills (i.e. 13 int), 1 level of wizard gives 3 cantrips including some damaging ones (although from an off stat is less optimal), a book casting of level 1 wizard rituals an extra level 1 spell per day. You also get normal familiars.

Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster and spell sniper all give potential options to get similar effects.

The things that you can only get from warlock include the level 1 pact ability (which could be pretty useful) the two invocations and some long rest/short rest balance.

A 5/1 lore bard/wizard has
3 bard + 3 wizard cantrips
4+1 level 1 wizard/bard spells
3 level 2 bard spells
3 level 3 bard spells
ritual book use of 9/11 level 1 ritual and access to 1 more level 1 and 4/7 level 2 rituals

a 3/3 lore bard/lock has
2 Bard + 2 lock + 2? any cantrips
4 level 1 bard spells
2 level 2 bard spells
2 x 3 short rest level 2 warlock spells
1 invocation and ritual book use of all 11 level 1 rituals and 7 level 2 rituals
OR
2 invocations and the best familiars

[BiPolar]

Not to disagree with this, but it is, of course, only relevant if the campaign plays that long. Certainly worthy of consideration though.

What level do you think the campaign will get you to? As others have said, multiclassing gives up a lot - especially for Lore Bards. Delaying cutting words, delaying additional expertise, delaying ASI, etc. are all sub 4th level things that are big benefits to give up for getting Warlock benefits. And that's nothing compared to delaying magical secrets at 6th level.

[Citan]

1) To be effective with a lore bard a bladelock requires at minimum lvl 5 for extra attach or lvl 12 for lifedrink, and in the end it only seems to me an over complicated way of creating something similar to a valor bard. Personally I believe that rogue 2/bladelock 18 is better than lore bard 6\bladelock 14 for what you are proposing.

2) 3 lvl dip means forgoing an ASI or Feat, that can be used to get the cantrips with magic initiate, if the bard really need the damage. Yes the Eldritch + agonizing blast can not be replicated, but I specifically put it as an exception and is something that other multiclassing option can use even better.

4) I specifically said that Tome is the best option for dip in any case, but even there there is always the choice of taking ritual casting if really needed, in any case the option is probably not worth the delay in spell levels.

3, 5, 6) Yes invocation are nice, but with a 3 lvl dip you only get 2, and that if renouncing agonizing blast, all in all, considering the bard is the best skill class in the game, the advantage of some invocation seems minimal, while other (like magic armor) give marginal bonuses. Yes teh darkvision one is extremely good, but it is for every class, not specifically bard, and again I believe there are better options for warlock multiclassing.

NOTE- I am not sure I got some of your comment, for instance I am not aware that using warlock slots let you forgo concentration, the opposite in fact, I also am not sure why you think Fiendish Vigour gains valour with the bard spell secrets.

That said, this is just my opinion, I do not pretend to be right at all cost.

1) Sure there are simpler ways to build a gish, totally agree with that. And indeed the Blade pact is worth it only if you mix at least 5+ Warlock. No argue in this, or the fact that spellcasting-wise, Valor Bard is better. Just saying that it makes a gish that can be very solid, although different in play.
That's why I was specifically saying Bestow Curse, although it works even better with Eldricht Blast.

2) Agreed that by themselves the cantrips are not worth 3 levels. By you have to consider everything you get with the dip to be fair: cantrips + invocations + rituals + very useful spells + short rest slots that can be used for many things as Bard. Magic Initiate can certainly not beat that, you'd need to also blow Ritual Caster to close in a bit (and still not quite equal). Certainly doable but probably lesser ;)

4) Worth it or not, how could one say, honestly? It's typically the kind of option that is chosen when there is a gap to be filled. So, in theorycraft, I probably agree with you, considering it's very DM dependent. But in small parties (and a nice DM) where Bard is the sole (CHA) caster this can prove invaluable.

3, 5, 6) Why limit to lvl 3 dip? The question of Warlock dipping seemed general to me, aiming at various builds. At least that's how I understood it and answered to it. But even then, it's still a very solid benefit. Many people dip into Warlock only for Mage Armor, or Darkness + Darkvision combo. Why would this be worse for a Bard? Especially since the Bard has archetypes geared toward weapon fighting?
Even only two invocations can be worth it in a build to strenghten a point or fill a lack.

NOTE: Seems as many others, you missed the point about Bestow Curse. When cast as lvl 5 spell, it's non-concentration.
So a Warlock 9 / Lore Bard 11 could stack bonus damage from Hex and Bestow Curse on every subsequent attack. :)
As for invisibility, you could use it to help survivability while still contributing through a "bonus action sustainable spell" such as Flaming Sphere for example. Forget about what I said on False Life though. I realized that the spells I had in mind to use with are (for most) lvl >3 spells. By the time you get them using an action for ~6 THP is a very bad use of an action indeed. ;)

Sure, when you get engaged in the second half of your career, most of these will probably become gimmicks compared to new spells you got your hands on. But if they were useful for a few levels (or if one had tremendous fun with his character), it may have been worth it. After all, as said above in the thread, most people don't get over character level 11 or 12 in their campaign, and losing his character before is common.

You only see the stretch goal. And it's indeed to be taken into consideration. But it's always a matter of choosing between immediate benefits or end goal for your concept.
If you want to be the best caster a Bard can be, Warlock dip will be the lesser option. If you're fine with having only one lvl 9 spell, then it can be a good choice. As for whether it's the best or not (compared to other classes), it all depends on character concept, which should always be the leading fanion (considering your previous post, I can say we agree on this ^^). ;)

[Aaron Underhand]

I would wonder if there are other ways to gain the same flexibility that 2-3 levels of warlock offers to a lore bard.

If your lore bard has more than +1 bonus in knowledge skills (i.e. 13 int), 1 level of wizard gives 3 cantrips including some damaging ones (although from an off stat is less optimal), a book casting of level 1 wizard rituals an extra level 1 spell per day. You also get normal familiars.

Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster and spell sniper all give potential options to get similar effects.

The things that you can only get from warlock include the level 1 pact ability (which could be pretty useful) the two invocations and some long rest/short rest balance.

A 5/1 lore bard/wizard has
3 bard + 3 wizard cantrips
4+1 level 1 wizard/bard spells
3 level 2 bard spells
3 level 3 bard spells
ritual book use of 9/11 level 1 ritual and access to 1 more level 1 and 4/7 level 2 rituals

a 3/3 lore bard/lock has
2 Bard + 2 lock + 2? any cantrips
4 level 1 bard spells
2 level 2 bard spells
2 x 3 short rest level 2 warlock spells
1 invocation and ritual book use of all 11 level 1 rituals and 7 level 2 rituals
OR
2 invocations and the best familiars

I love the one level wizard dip ...

Let's not forget you also get all Wizard Spells on your spell list and so can cast them from scrolls, and you can prepare wizard spells for first level allowing the bard to learn a wider range of higher level spells. Casting from a secondary stat is moot if your spell selection is picked from Fog Cloud, Shield, Sleep and Magic Missile. The Wizard also gets an ASI at 4th.

Of course the 3/3 lore bard/lock gets an ASI at next bard level, but at that point the 5/1 lore bard /wizard picks up magical secrets! You've maybe lost cantrip DPR, but you have so many upper level spell options that most fights should not descend to cantrip slugging matches.

[JeffreyGator]

I love the one level wizard dip ...



1 Level cleric dips are pretty amazing at adding versatility to Lore Bards as well.

My Lore Bard is more likely to find a wizard's book making it more thematically likely to pick up a wizard level than encountering some great power looking for my bard's soul.

[JackOfAllBuilds]

Now I'm picturing a tiefling bard with an imp familiar, both playing fiddles (or appropriate D&D replacement)

[Dr. Cliché]

Now I'm picturing a tiefling bard with an imp familiar, both playing fiddles (or appropriate D&D replacement)

That was basically my idea. Except that, instead of fiddles, they'd be playing the fantasy equivalent of electric guitars.

Any song-based abilities will be simulated via Iron Maiden.