Most powerful Marvel entity?

[Wojiz]

I've seen a few threads like this recently, but they've all been about characters who are just over-powered or powerful in terms of physical strength, and the ones we've had died a little while ago, so...

If, all morals aside and strictly on the level of ability and power, there was one entity that could conquer the entire Marvel universe(s?) or destroy it at will, who would it be, and who would be able to do it more easily than any other entity able to do so? This also includes any character that transcends physical nature.

It seems to me that while there are powerful heroes and mortals out there, there are far more powerful cosmic entities. All plot losses aside, for instance, Galactus is incredibly powerful. Various entities related to him like Abraxas seem to be just as powerful. And then you have characters like Thor, who's not only a god, but the strongest of the Norse gods; Doctor Strange kind of fits in this category. Lastly, you have mortals like Doctor Doom who don't really possess any real destructive or reality-warping abilities themselves, but with their super-human intellect and sorcerous abilities can achieve that level, and easily conquer a planet, though that's nothing in comparison to a universe.

So, in terms of the ability to rule the entire universe/multiverse/ whatever, who is most aptly suited for the job?

[Lord of the Helms]

This Guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Tribunal).

Well, or maybe Squirrel Girl.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Living Tribunal, no questions asked.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/TLT2.png
Why? Well, basically, he oversees all of reality. He's beyond the beings and artifacts of any one universe (except, perhaps, the Heart of the Universe). He can and has (twice) nullified and overruled the Infinity Gauntlet- and having that let Thanos overpower Eternity.

EDIT: Damnit, ninja'd!

For a powerful being that might actually do what you're describing, Thanos. From what I understand, he has obtained relative omnipotence through artifacts several times, and could probably do so again.

[Rare Pink Leech]

Agreed with you on both counts, Grod. If I remember correctly, hasn't Thanos actually achieved omnipotence and subsequently given it up, because he wanted a challenge and having omnipotence made things too easy?

[Ranis]

Stan Lee. No question.

[kpenguin]

Doesn't the Living Tribunal work for someone above him? The One-Above-All?

[Elliot Kane]

Agreed with you on both counts, Grod. If I remember correctly, hasn't Thanos actually achieved omnipotence and subsequently given it up, because he wanted a challenge and having omnipotence made things too easy?

Yes. Thanos has achieved absolute mastery of the universe on two occasions I can think of. Once via the Infinity Gems, and once which he gave up. Pretty conclusive evidence for Thanos, I'd say :)

The Living Tribunal is an agent of some higher power, yes. But that restricts his actions, whilst said higher power never acts (Unless you count Marvel vs DC).

So functionally - it's Thanos.

[kpenguin]

The One-Above-All does act. In mysterious ways. He's the embodiment of Marvel. Not the universe, not the multiverse, but the company itself.

[Foxtale]

Stan Lee. No question.If he were all powerful, he wouldn't have gotten kicked out of the Fantastic Four's wedding in FF2. :smalltongue:

What about the Phoenix Force? It's pretty powerful.

[Ranis]

If he were all powerful, he wouldn't have gotten kicked out of the Fantastic Four's wedding in FF2. :smalltongue:

Blasphemy! Lies! He is the Maker! The Creator and the Ender! He killed Captain America, after all. If that proves nothing else, he's a soulless bastard.

[Grod_The_Giant]

well, the one-above-all is God, I think. They just use the Living Tribunal as his 'agent,' so to speak, because they'd get in trouble for having God in a comic.

[Rare Pink Leech]

The One-Above-All does act. In mysterious ways. He's the embodiment of Marvel. Not the universe, not the multiverse, but the company itself.

Oh, so you're talking about Stan Lee. Well, I guess Ranis is right :smalltongue:

[Lord of the Helms]

well, the one-above-all is God, I think. They just use the Living Tribunal as his 'agent,' so to speak, because they'd get in trouble for having God in a comic.

Not neccessarily (http://superdickery.com/propaganda/67.html)

And I guess yeah, Thanos is the one who could (and did, multiple times) make the entire universe his own. The reason he doesn't rule it is probably that his motivation is essentially to score with a chick, not to be an all-powerful overlord :smalltongue:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Not neccessarily (http://superdickery.com/propaganda/67.html)

WTF?!?!?!?

[Lord of the Helms]

I've seen that cover at least a half-dozen times now. And yet I keep laughing myself senseless every time I see it again. The single funniest thing on superdickery.com, and that says a lot.

[Rob Knotts]

So, in terms of the ability to rule the entire universe/multiverse/ whatever, who is most aptly suited for the job?The potential to rule the universe pretty much elminates all of Marvel's cosmic entities (Eternity, Death, Tribunal, etc), because thier powers derive from thier purpose, and are thus limited by that purpose.

The Tribunal, for example, is only supposed to show up in response to situations, either because of a threat to the cosmic order or by the invocation of other cosmic entities. The fact that he can order around other cosmic entities is tempered by the idea that his purpose is to monitor the actions of cosmic-powered entities. While all of the abstract cosmic entities in Marvel always have as much power they need to something, the abstract element that gives them thier power also limits what they can choose to do with it.

In other words, abstract entities like Eternity or the Living Tribunal don't have the power to rule the universe because that's not what thier power is for.

When it comes to characters with unlimited power AND unlimited discretion in how to use that power, I'd only include the Impossible Man, Thanos, and Warlock. While each one of these characters has a defining nature (chaos, death/change, and justice/balance, respectively), they're still free to choose what they want to do with thier power (or whatever power they can acquire, in the case of Thanos and Warlock).

[Mewtarthio]

Thanos with the Heart of the Universe. Hands down. Unlike the other cosmic pseudo-gods, he isn't stuck in a particular role that he cannot violate (plus he's stronger than them anyway).

[kpenguin]

Perhaps, but the One-Above-All's role is to control the universe. And it is behind everything. Even Thanos's power.

[Emperor Tippy]

Jean Grey as White Phoenix of the Crown.

All the power of all life that ever has, ever will, and does exist.

Her main purpose is to destroy the whole universe as some point and start the next big bang.

EDIT: And she exists outside of the universe making her immune to people like Franklin Richards.

[Rob Knotts]

Perhaps, but the One-Above-All's role is to control the universe. And it is behind everything. Even Thanos's power.So which is it, the chicken or the egg?

[FdL]

What about the Beyonder?

[Gavin Sage]

Stan Lee. No question.

When the Fantastic Four went to Heaven to get the Thing back they encountered not the Stan Lee, but artist over a sketch board not unlike a certain man called the "the King"

So nope.

[Ranis]

What about the Beyonder?

The Beyonder is only the master of *his* universe, or piece of the pie, if you will. He did incite the Secret Wars, but you should remember that Doom was able to steal his powers away. He regained them, but you can't just steal the power of the Living Tribunal by just shooting them with a ray made out of a man who is solidified sound. xD

And if my memory serves me correctly, the Beyonder is currently mortal, or at least in a mortal form, on Earth.

[Gavin Sage]

The Beyonder is only the master of *his* universe, or piece of the pie, if you will. He did incite the Secret Wars, but you should remember that Doom was able to steal his powers away. He regained them, but you can't just steal the power of the Living Tribunal by just shooting them with a ray made out of a man who is solidified sound. xD

And if my memory serves me correctly, the Beyonder is currently mortal, or at least in a mortal form, on Earth.

The Beyonder has been retconned after first introduced. For awhile it turns out he was only a Cosmic Cube. And his say snatching Galactus across the universe was just the big guy "playing along" to aid in his development.

And if that isn't bad enough for you check out the latest issue of Illuminati. The Beyonder gets retconned again into...a mutant Inhuman... You're either making saving throws to keep you brain from imploding from making sense of that or wishing to strangle Bendis

[Ninja Squirrel]

When the Fantastic Four went to Heaven to get the Thing back they encountered not the Stan Lee, but artist over a sketch board not unlike a certain man called the "the King"

So nope.


that guy was drawn as either stan lee, or one of the other marvel people. he's supposed to represent God. That guys the most powerful Marvel entity.

[Invisible Queen]

In terms of the ability to rule the entire universe, I guess The One Above All/Living Tribunal is the best, seeing as they already do. Below them in the food chain I believe is Eternity and the Celestials, who all know better than messing with the natural order. Then there's Thanos. Case closed IMO.

[Ranis]

The Beyonder has been retconned after first introduced. For awhile it turns out he was only a Cosmic Cube. And his say snatching Galactus across the universe was just the big guy "playing along" to aid in his development.

And if that isn't bad enough for you check out the latest issue of Illuminati. The Beyonder gets retconned again into...a mutant Inhuman... You're either making saving throws to keep you brain from imploding from making sense of that or wishing to strangle Bendis

Yes, yes, I remember now. I was extremely tired when I wrote that, so my memory was a bit kaput. 0.0

[Grod_The_Giant]

you know something? Marvel has way to many reality-altering and cosmic forces.

[Invisible Queen]

Each of them would have their ass handed to them by Superman and anyone above him in DC's food chain, though. :)

[Hushdawg]

Each of them would have their ass handed to them by Superman and anyone above him in DC's food chain, though. :)

As much of a fanboy of Supes as I am, I highly doubt that the Kryptonian would stand a chance against Infinity, Eternity or The Living Tribunal.

These are characters who embody the very essences of time, space and order.

a match between Supes and Thanos even would be tough as Thanos is easily as powerful than Doomsday.

[Emperor Tippy]

Each of them would have their ass handed to them by Superman and anyone above him in DC's food chain, though. :)

No.

On average DC is the more powerful universe but Marvel has more characters at the extreme power levels.

Phoenix (more powerful than death, and eternity combined), The Living Tribunal

And generally anyone else who exists outside the universe.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Basically, if DCU Earth's heroes fought MU Earth's heroes, DC would probably win because they've got more powerhouses. But if we went straight for universe versus universe instead of strictly on an Earth scale, DC has seen very, very few characters with powers as extreme as Marvel's top end. The ones I can think of are Darkseid (could probably beat Thanos), High Father (likewise), Source (pretty much as powerful as Living Tribunal, though it's never acted much), Superboy Prime (not nearly as powerful as the upper limits of the upper limits of Marvel, but still silly powerful), and possibly Ion (might be capable of matching Silver Surfer if he's actually mainlining the cosmos as it appears he is, though is limits are presently unknown). If we match them against just Galactus, Living Tribunal, Thanos, and the present Phoenix Force, DC gets ripped in half. And that's still excluding several, several Marvel mega entities.

The only character I can think of in DC capable of matching these upper entities is True Superman One Million after he receives his GL ring, as he can apparently warp the universe as he sees fit with no trouble. But he won't exist for a long time now, and his ultimate power is debatable.

[Ranis]

Yes, but as I understand it DC has fewer actual characters, something Marvel doesn't lack. So I'll have to go with Marvel on a Marvel vs. DC universe fight, simply due to the flood of characters Marvel has on DC.

[Mr. Mud]

I've seen a few threads like this recently, but they've all been about characters who are just over-powered or powerful in terms of physical strength, and the ones we've had died a little while ago, so...

If, all morals aside and strictly on the level of ability and power, there was one entity that could conquer the entire Marvel universe(s?) or destroy it at will, who would it be, and who would be able to do it more easily than any other entity able to do so? This also includes any character that transcends physical nature.

It seems to me that while there are powerful heroes and mortals out there, there are far more powerful cosmic entities. All plot losses aside, for instance, Galactus is incredibly powerful. Various entities related to him like Abraxas seem to be just as powerful. And then you have characters like Thor, who's not only a god, but the strongest of the Norse gods; Doctor Strange kind of fits in this category. Lastly, you have mortals like Doctor Doom who don't really possess any real destructive or reality-warping abilities themselves, but with their super-human intellect and sorcerous abilities can achieve that level, and easily conquer a planet, though that's nothing in comparison to a universe.

So, in terms of the ability to rule the entire universe/multiverse/ whatever, who is most aptly suited for the job?

A.
I Think the Only REAL person who could do this was maybe the Inhumans who had to move to the moon.They could Take over Because they ALL have superpowers not just a select few

B.
Namor and the Atlantian Armies

C.
if the Asgardians and Thor wanted to destroy the Earth sure they could too :smallamused:

[FdL]

The Beyonder has been retconned after first introduced. For awhile it turns out he was only a Cosmic Cube. And his say snatching Galactus across the universe was just the big guy "playing along" to aid in his development.

And if that isn't bad enough for you check out the latest issue of Illuminati. The Beyonder gets retconned again into...a mutant Inhuman... You're either making saving throws to keep you brain from imploding from making sense of that or wishing to strangle Bendis

It's in times like this when I remember why I no longer read superhero comics...

[Gavin Sage]

Basically, if DCU Earth's heroes fought MU Earth's heroes, DC would probably win because they've got more powerhouses. But if we went straight for universe versus universe instead of strictly on an Earth scale, DC has seen very, very few characters with powers as extreme as Marvel's top end. The ones I can think of are Darkseid (could probably beat Thanos), High Father (likewise), Source (pretty much as powerful as Living Tribunal, though it's never acted much), Superboy Prime (not nearly as powerful as the upper limits of the upper limits of Marvel, but still silly powerful), and possibly Ion (might be capable of matching Silver Surfer if he's actually mainlining the cosmos as it appears he is, though is limits are presently unknown). If we match them against just Galactus, Living Tribunal, Thanos, and the present Phoenix Force, DC gets ripped in half. And that's still excluding several, several Marvel mega entities.

The only character I can think of in DC capable of matching these upper entities is True Superman One Million after he receives his GL ring, as he can apparently warp the universe as he sees fit with no trouble. But he won't exist for a long time now, and his ultimate power is debatable.

Well DC's upper echelons are somewhat obscure and how many are in play can be debatable. God/the Source/the Prescence is somewhat more active in DC in my experience, and there are actual angels and demons, right up to Lucifer himself. Albeit how much about Lucifer is in canon right now I'm not sure, Sandman definitely is though given a recent appearence by Destiny. Then there's guys like the Spectre who at one point held universes apart and challenged the Anti-Monitor at the height of that guy's multiverse consuming might. And while the Spectre is the angel of God's vengenance, he's not the top angel. Any number of other entities that could chew up mere mortals like chocolate.

In a out and out godwar between universes I wouldn't care to pick. Mere mortal wise: DC, a step above that: Marvel, above that frankly I'd say Jack Kirby would show up and tell them all to stop and go back home.

[TheMeanDM]

I know he's DC, but I'm going to throw my "mortal" hat into the ring, and put it on the head of:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b4/Doomsday.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_%28comics%29

He returns to life every time he dies and becomes resistant or immune to what killed him before.

Energy? No problem.

Physical? Become stronger and tougher than that which pounded you.

Chronal (time)? Cause it to backlash.

Magical? Sure, maybe once...but he'll be back.

This guy stood up to the incarnation of Entropy (Imperiex), and came back.

If that's not hardcore unkillable....I don't know what is.

[Emperor Tippy]

Meh. Doomsday can be killed permanently by most of the hardcore cosmic marvel beings.

Just break him apart at the subatomic level and spread all his parts all over the universe.

Or better yet all over time.

[Dihan]

Or Scarlet could wipe him entirely from reality.

[TheMeanDM]

That is theoretically possible.

Though, you could do that to him once.

Then he'd be back.

Becuase according to the laws of physics...you cannot destroy energy, merely make it take another form.

So theoretically, as long as there is even one sub-atomic particle left of him (which there would be, because you can't destroy it's energy), then he could conceivably regenerate and survive that.

Because it's no big stretch of the imagination to believe that since his "survivability" is encoded in his DNA, that it couldn't further be "written" into his very atomic structure....you know?

***

I assume by Scarlet, you mean Scarlet Witch?

Well, according to my research, she can only change alternate timelines.

And, she apparently dosen't consciously control these changes, so she couldn't necessarily pin-point an exact moment in time to change.

Also, they're magical.

So while they may work once, with whatever she does....he'd be back :)

[Emperor Tippy]

That is theoretically possible.

Though, you could do that to him once.

Then he'd be back.

Becuase according to the laws of physics...you cannot destroy energy, merely make it take another form.

So theoretically, as long as there is even one sub-atomic particle left of him (which there would be, because you can't destroy it's energy), then he could conceivably regenerate and survive that.

Because it's no big stretch of the imagination to believe that since his "survivability" is encoded in his DNA, that it couldn't further be "written" into his very atomic structure....you know?

Read up on him. Its his 1 weakness.

And any time traveler with sufficient power could stop him. Just kill the people who created him before they do it.

[Ranis]

Read up on him. Its his 1 weakness.

And any time traveler with sufficient power could stop him. Just kill the people who created him before they do it.

Yup. And guess how many Marvel characters can travel through time? :)

[Emperor Tippy]

Yup. And guess how many Marvel characters can travel through time? :)

A fairly large number.

Phoenix can. And numerous people have made time machines.

[Ranis]

Yeah, seriously. Doctor Doom made a time machine in college.

[Hushdawg]

Yeah, seriously. Doctor Doom made a time machine in college.

I went to high school with that guy..
always pissed me off inthe science fair thing.

I spent eight months doing research on common household chemicals and then he shows up with some lame mutation ray...

made me so mad....


at least the third arm makes it easier to scratch my butt...

[EvilJames]

Meh. Doomsday can be killed permanently by most of the hardcore cosmic marvel beings.

Just break him apart at the subatomic level and spread all his parts all over the universe.

Or better yet all over time.

Well no as the previous poster said he'd just come back, if he stood up to imperiex (which is esentially the end of the universe itself and exists for the same purpose that someone said the pheonix does, which is to end the universe and jumpstart the next) Then even the pheonix might have trouble with him she'd could do it once but then her only option would be to end the universe around him and (assumming we're in the marvel uni when this happens) let him become essentially the new galactus (which he would probobly enjoy)
Hmm Time travel would do it I suppose

Also wouldn't Pheonix still be beaten by Thanos with that heart thing. Since you said in a previous thread that she and the tribunal are about even and Thanos did kick the tribunals ass along with every other cosmic being with that

[Baalzebub]

The Living Tribunal or Thanos. Ditto.

[Griemont]

I went to high school with that guy..
always pissed me off inthe science fair thing.

I spent eight months doing research on common household chemicals and then he shows up with some lame mutation ray...

made me so mad....


at least the third arm makes it easier to scratch my butt...

:smalleek:



Anyway, Eternity wins. Because he's freaking Eternity. :smallamused:

[Emperor Tippy]

:smalleek:



Anyway, Eternity wins. Because he's freaking Eternity. :smallamused:

Eternity is just part of the living tribunal. In the cosmic power sense he is only a bit player.

[Griemont]

I remember reading that it was the other way around, and that Eternity was literally everything. :smallconfused: Retcon?

[Emperor Tippy]

Eternity, Death, and Galactus are the 3 faces of the living tribunal.

EDIT: Here's what wikipedia says


The Living Tribunal has three faces, although only one is fully visible, with the other two being partially and completely covered respectively. The three faces represent Equity, Necessity and Vengeance and correspond to the different prime cosmic beings (and their counterparts) in all universes.

In the Earth-616 universe these beings are:

* Equity - Galactus

* Necessity - Eternity / Infinity

* Vengeance - Death / Oblivion


And we aren't even sure if The Heart of the Universe is even cannon in 616.

And Adam Warlock not being affected (as he existed outside of normal space/time at the time) hints that other beings that exist outside the universe may be unaffected by the heart.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Squirrel Girl.

[Pendragonx]

off-topic... I think I read the first issue of 'Warlock' back in grade school.. was that series any good?

[Runolfr]

What about the Beyonder?

Consigned to ret-con hell.

[Griemont]

Eternity, Death, and Galactus are the 3 faces of the living tribunal.

EDIT: Here's what wikipedia says



And we aren't even sure if The Heart of the Universe is even cannon in 616.

And Adam Warlock not being affected (as he existed outside of normal space/time at the time) hints that other beings that exist outside the universe may be unaffected by the heart.

Ah. I remember reading that Eternity included 'da Tribunal, but I guess not. Although The LT doesn't contain Eternity, but he can overrule him, so the point goes to you. :smallwink:

[loveless]

after battling tyrant


Thanos emerged from the battle declaring that, since he had withstood the powerful Tyrant for a time and gained what he sought from him, further struggle was pointless (and admitted it would likely have resulted in his own destruction).

[WalkingTarget]

Yeah, the LT or Thanos, depending on whether restrictions apply.

OT a little: in those DC vs. Marvel comics, my favorite part was probably one of the side bits that wasn't even really related to the story, it's just something that cropped up in the background constantly. Throughout the series Thanos and Darkseid are having some sort of battle but you only get to see bits and pieces of it. I always found that amusing.

Well, until the sky starts bleeding and Thanos stops to admire the scenery. Damn, that guy is messed up.

[docstrange]

that guy was drawn as either stan lee, or one of the other marvel people. he's supposed to represent God. That guys the most powerful Marvel entity.

It's Kirby, folks, Jack "King" Kirby. For the three of you out there who saw this book and didn't recognize the man, you need to know who he is.

[GoC]

As much of a fanboy of Supes as I am, I highly doubt that the Kryptonian would stand a chance against Infinity, Eternity or The Living Tribunal.

These are characters who embody the very essences of time, space and order.

a match between Supes and Thanos even would be tough as Thanos is easily as powerful than Doomsday.

I think he meant Silver Age Superman.

[Kaelaroth]

Squirrel Girl.

What he said, but prettier, because I said it. If not her, then the One-Above All.

[Tallis]

Joe Quesada.

...or the One Above All. He empowered the Living Tribunal who destroys universes when they become problematic. Ruling the universe is easily within his capabilities and unlike other cosmic entities he has no defining purpose for his powers, he can do whatever he wants.

[Ethrael]

I thought the whole point of the One-Above-All was that he is the most powerful Marvel Entity. I thought that was the purpose of it so there's no dispute.

[Lord Galen]

^^^^^

right. Three words...

One. Above. ALL.

[Aquillion]

you know something? Marvel has way to many reality-altering and cosmic forces.The problem is that eventually you end up with a deity-class Worf Effect. Every time you have another super-powered entity to introduce, you show how powerful he is by having him beat up the earlier ones, or having the earlier ones say that they actually just work for him, or whatever.

(ps. if we're talking Marvel vs. DC, Batman still wins. I shouldn't have to tell you this, people.)

[Wish]

That is a question of ethics.
Who is powerful, Stan Lee, who is more powerful, well Spiderman, because in real life everyone know him, if spiderman went down marvel would go down.

Thats true, but not down and out.

But the marvel universe is different from real life (despite marvel spending millions on us believing the contrary. While D&D takes our money on the contrary. )

Anyway, gee I can answer the question. I don't know.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2769/hulkiconmu9.gif Hmmm powerful? Hulk powerful, Hulk smash !

"But Hulk your stupid" http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5892/deadpoolam9.gif

[Hectonkhyres]

What he said, but prettier, because I said it. If not her, then the One-Above All.
I theorize that the two are not actually separate beings.
You heard it here, folks. Squirrel Girl is and has always been the goddess of all things.

Shouldn't come as a surprise, really.

[nagora]

Arishem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arishem_the_Judge), or potentially, Phoenix.

[DigoDragon]

I've always been partial to "The Watcher" Uatu for his ability to hold so much power and knowledge, yet use it conservitively. :smallsmile:

[KoDT69]

Don Quioxte - In his own mind :smallbiggrin:

Or Cannonball... Look at that outfit, it has the power to double over the villains in laughter so a real super-hero can come in and finish the job :smallwink:

[Renx]

Joe Quesada:

http://renter.kapsi.fi/kuvat/ooc/1155771347699.jpg

[gatitcz]

Mimic.

When he has the powers of Nate Grey, Franklin Richards, Vulcan, Elixir, and Iceman.