PDA

View Full Version : DM Help Search for the Nexus - Noob DM Help [3.5]



illequidam
2016-04-25, 02:33 PM
Hi!

I'm DMing (for the first time) an extremely casual one-sitting game of Dnd3.5 in a few weeks. We're many (~6-8) and not very experienced (with the exception of one guy, who's committed to minmaxing and tanking for everyone) and I'm essentially relying more heavily on roleplaying than mechanics for a lot of it (see below, tree spirit and NPC stuff). I was comforted by our resident RP veteran with the words "Just roll a D20 if something has a chance of failing, and you'll be fine". I used to write stories a lot, so I'm having a fun time making up everything.

I have a specific question and a request for general advice. BEHOLD THE PLOT!

I plan to start the (~lvl5) players off showing up at a dispute between two NPCs, who have killed each other's spouses. Specifically, I'll introduce each NPC separately and players will run into one or the other NPC, with a chance to introduce themselves and banter for a little bit, before the two parties will bump into each other and the two NPCs will start shouting at each other and fill in their backstories.

The NPCs and the players will be attacked by a demon, and fight it off in a fairly easy battle. The two NPCs will then declare their intentions to go to the source of the demons, which they suspect to be the cave in the middle of the forest. One NPC will go the longer, safer path and along the way buy potions at a nearby trading post. The other will go straight through the woods, more dangerously, and pass by a magical tree spirit that can buff their weapons. The players can choose who to go with and I'm assuming this will divide the party in two more manageable parties. Team Danger will have ~2 encounters, plus the forest spirit, whereas Team Safety gets to buy potions and have one encounter. [Edit: eh, 1 or 2 between the two of them.] If they all go the same way, I would increase the number of encounters, I guess. In any case, along the way the guide NPC will fill in more backstory somewhat cryptically about how they feel justified in having killed the other's spouse, and describe having felt a superhuman anger.

Once the reach the small town in the center of the town they will have the chance to buy some stuff and sleep for the night, (and possibly regroup if the party split). The townspeople will talk about how they're protected from the demons by a character called The Architect, who expanded the local mines but found something called the Energy Nexus deep inside of it. If they inquire enough they'll get hints that The Architect is an evil and powerful sorcerer, and the allegedly dead spouse of one of the NPCs.

In the mine dungeon they'll fight some stuff, and I'll start splitting the NPCs away from the party (any maybe dividing the players) with metal walls that shut off passageways while the party is walking through them. After stripping away the NPCs there will be an unsolvable trap [edit: diffucult but solveable trap, help is useful but not absolutely needed] where the players are eventually saved by a tall barbarian woman, who is the other allegedly dead spouse, secretly a Succubus (quite a damsel in distress). After using traps to get the Succubus alone with one of the players (I have someone in mind who would try to get laid in-game) she will try to seduce him and thus weaken or kill him before teleporting away. Depending on time I might have The Architect appear and try to rush them to the Nexus. There should be maybe 2-4 encounters total in there [maybe keep that at 2]. We're casuals so they should be fairly easy.

Once everyone reaches the Nexus (at the same time! conveniently!) there will be the big reveal where the Succubus and the Architect explain their backstory (fell in love, cursed their spouses to anger, faked their deaths in battle against the other NPC). They decided to begin their world conquest or whatever by creating a portal to the abyss in a powerful site of magical energy namely The Energy Nexus.

Some tough demons appear and we have the main boss fight. Maybe we could have a final sacrifice of one of the NPCs pushing his spouse into the portal or something similarly Hollywood.

Naively, I said this should take about 3hrs if everyone is focused, 5hrs with the usual banter and not-doing-what-the-DM-wants-them-to-do. I forsee this as a fairly linear (or, whatever, bilinear) plot, because as this is a one-session adventure I've really created a world where one thing is going on and it's this.

General thoughts
Oh man, are there going to be unexpected pitfalls in this. I can feel it. What would you, the expert DMs, recommend I change or look out for? How should I be thinking about this, and how do you include players' backstories in a one-session campaign?

Specific mechanics question
So, succubi. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em, am I right?

"A succubus drains energy from a mortal it lures into some act of passion, or by simply planting a kiss on the victim. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the succubus must start a grapple..."

Lured into an act of passion, eh? What does that even mean? How am I supposed to do that? Like, am I supposed to just role-play this? I imagine myself saying "She leans in for a kiss" and then, even if the victim is alone, the rest of the players being like "bruh you're about to die." Having an NPC kiss one of the players in a dungeon doesn't seem like something I can do casually. It's going to raise suspicion and alarm immediately. How do I play that off? A superficial Google search wasn't terribly helpful here.

I was thinking maybe having the succubus and the victim attacked by a bebelith and entangle them with web, so they're close to and facing each other. Otherwise we could just have him save her from the web and the thankful succubus seems a little thirsty and tries to kiss him. Or she can just grapple him - she's pretty strong. (inb4: But succubi can't turn into large humanoids! To that I say, house rules, or greater succubus from the DnD sex manual. The point is, I figure being saved by a tall barbarian is probably the best way to have them not suspect a succubus.)

Anyway, I've been thinking about this campaign in almost every spare moment since I agreed to DM and I'm really excited. We've got about 2 weeks before we finish our current campaign and start on mine, so I'm happy to take suggestions.

Thanx in advans,
Ille Quidam

ATHATH
2016-04-25, 02:51 PM
Generally, splitting the party is a bad thing and should be avoided, because while you're detailing the adventures of one part of the party, the rest of the players have to sit there and (metaphorically) twiddle their thumbs.

What will happen if the PC's fly or teleport to the center of the forest?

BowStreetRunner
2016-04-25, 03:17 PM
The players can choose who to go with and I'm assuming this will divide the party in two more manageable parties.I highly recommend you do not assume any such thing. What you can safely assume is that the PCs will surprise you by doing very unexpected things at the most inconvenient times. The party may divide or may decide to stay together. (Experienced PCs will never split the party.) Or they may decide to go off in a completely different direction altogether. You need to give them decent incentives if there is a specific choice you want them to make. Even then, you still need to be prepared in case they don't.

Team Danger will have ~2 encounters, plus the forest spirit, whereas Team Safety gets to buy potions and have one encounter.As ATHATH already stated, you don't want half the players sitting and twiddling their thumbs while the other half runs through an encounter. I've dealt with this a number of ways in rare instances when it was necessary. In a couple of instances we worked around dinner breaks - one group of players went to eat while the other ran through their encounter, then switched. In another I created NPCs to be run by each of the players whose PC wasn't present. Each player who ran an NPC was given a set of goals to accomplish with the NPC and got bonus XP for their PC if they succeeded.

Naively, I said this should take about 3hrs if everyone is focused, 5hrs with the usual banter and not-doing-what-the-DM-wants-them-to-do. I forsee this as a fairly linear (or, whatever, bilinear) plot, because as this is a one-session adventure I've really created a world where one thing is going on and it's this.With 6-8 players I've seen it drag to where a single round of combat can easily take 10-15 minutes even with everyone focused. You need to plan on using the Take 10 rule liberally, as well as any other time-saving measures you can think of, or you are going to go way over your expectations for time.

...how do you include players' backstories in a one-session campaign?The one-shot campaigns I've done in the past all the characters were done in advance, usually by email between player and DM. Hit the ground running on game-day and don't waste time creating characters at that point. Tell everyone who doesn't have their character by a certain date that you will provide them a pre-made character. Have a few extra DM-made characters if you think someone unexpected might show up to play.

illequidam
2016-04-25, 03:42 PM
Generally, splitting the party is a bad thing and should be avoided, because while you're detailing the adventures of one part of the party, the rest of the players have to sit there and (metaphorically) twiddle their thumbs.

We've done this in our current campaign, and as long as it's entertaining no one has had too much trouble with it. For instance, one time a single player ran to town in the middle of a quest and got into a bar fight in which he inflicted 0 damage, then left to rejoin us. It was hilarious, so everyone seemed to enjoy it. This probably has to do with the fact that we're by and large more interested in silly adventures than winning battles.

However, since you both mentioned it's a bad idea, and I'm very new I will take your advice. I will try to incentivize them not to. It's, again, pretty casual, so I might just tell them.


What will happen if the PC's fly or teleport to the center of the forest?

If someone comes up with a way to fly there, that might be harder than the quest I've set up, seeing as there are no flying creatures within a day's walking distance. So I guess if they pull it off I won't stop them.

As for teleportation, I'll just mention that the the Energy Nexus interferes with teleportation, and that they can't teleport to locations they haven't been in before.



With 6-8 players I've seen it drag to where a single round of combat can easily take 10-15 minutes even with everyone focused. You need to plan on using the Take 10 rule liberally, as well as any other time-saving measures you can think of, or you are going to go way over your expectations for time.
The one-shot campaigns I've done in the past all the characters were done in advance, usually by email between player and DM. Hit the ground running on game-day and don't waste time creating characters at that point. Tell everyone who doesn't have their character by a certain date that you will provide them a pre-made character. Have a few extra DM-made characters if you think someone unexpected might show up to play.

Good advice. Thank you!


Also what about role-playing the succubus energy drain? Does anyone have experience with that?

Pex
2016-04-25, 04:20 PM
The unsolvable trap is also a problem. Players are notorious (and not wrongly) to become upset when put in a situation they cannot defeat by DM's purpose and fiat just to be rescued by an NPC. Find some other way to introduce that NPC.

illequidam
2016-04-26, 08:47 PM
The unsolvable trap is also a problem. Players are notorious (and not wrongly) to become upset when put in a situation they cannot defeat by DM's purpose and fiat just to be rescued by an NPC. Find some other way to introduce that NPC.

Unsolveable trap replaced with fairly difficult one, where they're aided by the succubus but avoids leaving them helpless-until-she-arrives.

Thank you guys for the advice! Still hoping to get suggestions on the succubus mechanics. Anyone have any pointers?

Cenric
2016-04-26, 09:21 PM
If there's a player you think will want to kiss the girl in the dungeon, then describing her as attractive and playing her as coming on to him should lead you down the road you're thinking of. If they turn her down, have her turn up the seduction meter if you are comfortable enough with the table to go down that road, or even turn to her bag of tricks. She does have charm monster at will as a SLA DC22 (So no verbal/somatic give aways), which will make the PC's see her in the best possible light, leading to a fateful romantic encounter of the energy draining persuasion.

Side note, its not very well described how she enters her scene. It sounds like she just kinda plows through a wall and asks the party if they wanna make out in that there corner, which may raise an eyebrow or two from a more experienced player. If she's a prisoner there (for X reason) the party might just expect her to be an attractive commoner trying her best to pay a debt of rescuing her

illequidam
2016-04-27, 08:39 AM
If there's a player you think will want to kiss the girl in the dungeon, then describing her as attractive and playing her as coming on to him should lead you down the road you're thinking of. If they turn her down, have her turn up the seduction meter if you are comfortable enough with the table to go down that road, or even turn to her bag of tricks.
[...]
Side note, its not very well described how she enters her scene. It sounds like she just kinda plows through a wall and asks the party if they wanna make out in that there corner, which may raise an eyebrow or two from a more experienced player. If she's a prisoner there (for X reason) the party might just expect her to be an attractive commoner trying her best to pay a debt of rescuing her

She just kind of plows through a wall, yes. But I wouldn't attempt the seduction proper until after another encounter, and after the two of them are alone. More specifically, I'd have the PC and the succubus alone via another trap.


She does have charm monster at will as a SLA DC22 (So no verbal/somatic give aways), which will make the PC's see her in the best possible light, leading to a fateful romantic encounter of the energy draining persuasion.

What does SLA DC22 mean? I was under the impression charm monster was for "monsters" and wouldn't work on NPCs, so that's useful to know. However, if that requires me saying "She casts 'charm monster'", well... let's just say that if possible I'd like to avoid the reveal until the two are making out.

Dekion
2016-04-27, 09:30 AM
SLA is a "Spell-Like Ability" and the DC is the check their save roll with bonuses should need to meet or exceed to not be impacted (or partially impacted in some cases.)

Charm Monster is just like Charm Person, but it works on "monsters" too, not exclusively on "monsters."

You could flavor the SLA like "She gazes longingly into your eyes..." (and secretly roll the will save.) SLAs are more like will it and it happens than casting a spell, even if they take an action to process, you can flavor that action as a definitive act or action, rather than "casting a spell."

illequidam
2016-04-28, 11:44 AM
You could flavor the SLA like "She gazes longingly into your eyes..." (and secretly roll the will save.)

Ah, I feel like now I understand how I'm supposed to do this without looking like an idiot. Our current DM hasn't been doing a lot of secret rolling, but running the game mechanics without showing them to the PCs might make or break this plot point.

Thank you very much!

Dekion
2016-04-28, 12:38 PM
Think about it like this, if you ask your players to roll a perception check to see if they notice something, even if they don't succeed, they are going to know they should have noticed something. Secret checks require you to know your player's character's modifiers and are important for preventing metagame behavior in some situations. Also remember, that should the save succeed the character will likely have the feeling that something is amiss. Just be careful not to overuse such things, and read in detail what an individual who is charmed will, and won't, do. The situation you are describing can feel very much like being railroaded, that what you planned as a DM is going to happen no matter what they do. Make sure you are prepared for that outcome.

KillianHawkeye
2016-04-29, 11:20 AM
Naively, I said this should take about 3hrs if everyone is focused, 5hrs with the usual banter and not-doing-what-the-DM-wants-them-to-do.

Wow, three to five hours? In my experience, an adventure of this length would take three to five game sessions to complete! :smalleek:

illequidam
2016-05-06, 12:55 PM
Wow, three to five hours? In my experience, an adventure of this length would take three to five game sessions to complete! :smalleek:

Yep shortening everything. Thank you everyone!