Pathfinder gestalt low tiers

[Gnaeus]

After a discussion in another thread, I wanted to look again at what a gestalt of all tier 4-5 classes looks like in PF. I last did this a few years ago, when it was kind of a solid T3. But we have some new classes since then.

So, I'm looking for all first party PF classes below T3. It doesn't really matter whether they are 4 or 5 for this purpose. Only whether they are above or below the T3 line. ACFs will be used as little as possible to trade out duplicate abilities.

I think I'm looking at:Unchained Barbarian, Cavalier, Unchained Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Gunslinger, Unchained Rogue, Adept, Bloodrager, Brawler, Swashbuckler, Kineticist, Fighter (gonna skip the psionics for now, sorry Aegis, much respect. I wish I could use it. It would be a huge boost.).

Am I missing anyone? Is paladin too close to T3? Is there another occult or hybrid class under T3? Slayer maybe?

As before, I will do a level 5, 10 and maybe 15 build.

[Geddy2112]

Paladin is strong tier 4, but this is mainly due to the game design focusing on good guys fighting the forces of evil/undead. A paladin drops in line with the rest of tier 4 when the campaign is not running rampant with said enemies.

Slayer is tier 4

[Abithrios]

If you include adept, you might as well include expert.

Also, keep in mind that while tiers still exist in pathfinder, they aren't as predictive as in 3.5. A lot less thought has gone into placing classes in tiers. For example, the tier list I have found lists rogue lower due to loss of niche protection, which doesn't actually change the set of encounters that a particular character can handle. Also, a lot 3.5 thinking has been carried over without rethinking.

[Psyren]

Ignoring archetypes:

T4
Barbarian
Fighter w/ AWT/AAT
Ranger
Rogue
Paladin
Cavalier/Samurai (mount-friendly campaign)
Brawler
Slayer
Swashbuckler
Unchained Barbarian
Unchained Monk
Kineticist
Adept

T5:
Fighter (base)
Monk
Cavalier/Samurai (mount-unfriendly campaign)
Gunslinger
Antipaladin
Expert

T6:
Warrior
Aristocrat (assuming WBL)
Commoner

[Gnaeus]

Ignoring archetypes:

T4
Barbarian
Fighter w/ AWT/AAT
Ranger
Rogue
Paladin
Cavalier/Samurai (mount-friendly campaign)
Brawler
Slayer
Swashbuckler
Unchained Barbarian
Unchained Monk
Kineticist
Adept

T5:
Fighter (base)
Monk
Cavalier/Samurai (mount-unfriendly campaign)
Gunslinger
Antipaladin
Expert

T6:
Warrior
Aristocrat (assuming WBL)
Commoner

So is unchained rogue T3? Vigilante I imagine is T4 as well? Otherwise, I'm on the same page.

[Psyren]

So is unchained rogue T3?

Yep.


Vigilante I imagine is T4 as well? Otherwise, I'm on the same page.

Good question. I was imagining T3 because I haven't seen much uproar about them otherwise, but honestly not sure.

[Florian]

Putting the Vigilante in the Tier systems should prove a bit trick due to the extreme behavior of archetypes here. Some of the dedicated casting archetypes seem to be en par with the classes they copycat (Magus, Inquisitor) other have access to a spell list but are cut at 6th level and don´t receive bard- or summoner-style reduction in spell levels to counteract this, while the basic version and the Brute archetype play on a similar level as regular Rogues and Fighters.

[Gnaeus]

If you include adept, you might as well include expert.


Well, it really doesn't matter much. Unless there was some skill that no other class below T4 has, expert doesn't actually add anything to the gestalt. Adept, on the other hand brings a lot to the table.


Yep.

Poo. I'll back it out then. Power wise, I think in this case it is kind of a wash, because while UR is a little stronger, Chained rogue has a lot of things I can use to trade away duplicate abilities. I guess it saves me having to do a bunch of work figuring out skill unlocks.



Good question. I was imagining T3 because I haven't seen much uproar about them otherwise, but honestly not sure.

I'm really thinking T4 for vigilante. They have a few goodies that rogues lack, but they are very situational (mostly based on being famous in your community) and they actually look weaker than chained rogue in a purely mechanical sense. I'm going to use it, and if later concensus determines that they are tier 3, I doubt that the social position of the gestalt will really matter much in reviewing its power.

[Florian]

I'm really thinking T4 for vigilante. They have a few goodies that rogues lack, but they are very situational (mostly based on being famous in your community) and they actually look weaker than chained rogue in a purely mechanical sense. I'm going to use it, and if later concensus determines that they are tier 3, I doubt that the social position of the gestalt will really matter much in reviewing its power.

Look up the Cabalist and Zealot archetypes. Both come pretty near the original class they emulate.
I think it´s the wrong move to judge the social identity half when the power is found over with the vigilante identity.

[Gnaeus]

Default rules/assumptions. I am about 75% through with the first level 5 draft, and I wanted to throw out some mental rulings I was making.

1. Like the last T4G build I will not be using alignment as a prereq for classes. It will include both monk and barbarian. The purpose is examining all the T4 abilities together, so I'm not too worried.
2. Optimization level will be what I consider mid-op. Where tricks present themselves as obvious, I will be using them (for example, in the 3.5 build a couple years ago, it was quickly apparent that the gestalt was naturally awesome at stealth and intimidate, so I took darkstalker and imperious command.). But my goal will not be to build the strongest uber gestalt, just a competent one. I won't be spending extra hours searching the combat feat list if Weapon Focus: Musket seems like a reasonable choice.
3. I will be using the above list, + vigilante. I will not be using alternative classes. I will be using Archetypes only to trade out duplicate abilities.
4. There are a lot of vagueries about what abilities would be expected to stack in gestalt. The biggest ones are bonus feats. The rule of thumb I am using is that multiple abilities called "bonus feats" are different if the feats they grant are different. Where there is overlap, I try to use the second occurrance to get something that is not duplicable. For example, fighter gets a bonus combat feat at 4. Gunslinger gets a bonus combat or grit feat or dare at 4. I will be considering those as separate abilities, but will make sure to use the gunslinger bonus feat for a grit feat or dare.

[Gnaeus]

OK, here it is. The first draft of the level 5, all Tier 4 and below gestalt.

Level 5 T4G (PF Version) ½ elf
Barbarian, Unchained Monk (FC), Paladin (Oathbound: Oath against Grotesquery), Ranger, Gunslinger, Rogue(Scout) (Dark Lurker), Adept. Swashbuckler (Mysterious Avenger) Fighter, Brawler, Slayer (Sniper), Kineticist (FC), Bloodrager (Metamagic Rager), Cavalier
15 PB
Str 8, Dex 13+1 =14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 14 +2 (Race) =16
HP 43 (12+6.5x4+5 con)
Reflex +9 (+4 base, +2 dex, +3 cha), Fort +8 (+4 base, +3 cha, +1 con), Will +9 (+4 base, +2 wis, +3 cha) (+2 vs enchantment)
Init +6 (+2 dex, +2 swashbuckler init, +2 Gunslinger init)
Skills:
Acrobatics 5 ranks +2 dex +3 class=+10
Sense Motive 5 ranks +2 wis +3 class=+10
Stealth 5 ranks +2 dex +3 class=+10
Spellcraft 5 ranks +1 int +3 class=+9
Craft Alchemy 5 ranks +1 int +3 class=+9
Perception 5 ranks +2 wis +3 class=+10
Disguise 5 ranks +3 cha +3 class=+11 + special bonuses
Disable Device 5 ranks +2 dex +3 class=+10
Know (Arcana, Religion, Local, Dungeoneering, Nature) 1 rank +1 int +3 class=+5
Base Move 40, +10 enhance, Climb 40
Elemental Focus: Earth
Panache/grit: 3(swash) +2 (Gun)=5
Earth Blast, +8 (+5 bab, +2 dex, +1 point blank) 3d6+4
Infusions (will not be used): Pushing, Entangling, Magnetic
Favored Enemy: Undead +4, Dragon +2
DR 2/Adamantine (Kenny),
Immunities/resistances: Fear (Paladin 3), Disease (Monk 5)
Utility Talents: Kinetic Cover (Kenny 2), Earth Climb (Kenny4)
Unarmed (Is piercing, so qualifies for Swashbuckler bonuses) +8/+8 (+5 BaB, +2 dex, +1 WF Flurry)/ 1d8+4 (-1 str, +5 precise strike)
Style Strike: Spin Kick
Musket +8 (+5 BaB, +2 dex, +1 WF), standard action to reload. 1d12+2 (x4), Touch attack
Grapple +9 (+1 maneuver Training, +2 favored maneuver, +2 Imp Grapple, +5 BAB, -1 Str)
AC +1 monk, +1 dodge, +1 Nimble, +2 dex, +2 Wis, +4 mage armor =21
Ki Pool (2+wis)
Sneak Attack 3d6 (+2d6 when grappling), Hidden strike +3d8,
Senses: Detect Evil at will, Low Light Vision
Smite Evil (2x/day) +3/+5
Lay On Hands (5x/day), 2d6
Studied Target +2
Rogue Talents: Shadow Strike, Bleeding Attack
Slayer Talent: Blood Reader
Social Talents: Renown, Safehouse, Celebrity Discount
Vigilante Talents: Favored Maneuver: Grapple (+2), Sure Footed
Bloodrage: 12 rounds/day (Used to fuel metamagic only)
Rage: 12 rounds/day, Rage Powers: Scent, Energy Resistance (Fire) 2
Divine Bond: Weapon Bond (5 minutes/level) +1
Feats: L1: Combat Reflexes (Monk1), stunning fist (Monk1), Point Blank Shot (fight1), EWP Whip (Swashbuckler), Gunsmithing (Gun), Fey Foundling (ECL1), Escape Route (Cav)
L2 Dodge (Monk2), Weapon Focus: Musket (Fight2), Blind Fight (Rog), Improved Grapple (Vig), Rapid Reload: Musket (Ran)
L3 Endurance (Ran), Extend Spell (ECL 3)
L4 Snake Style (Fight 4), Secret Stash Deed (Gun), Eschew Material (Blood)
L5 Weapon Focus: Unarmed(Brawler 5), Craft Wondrous Items (ECL 5)
Martial Flexibility (5/day)
Monk power: Augury
Greater Charmed Life 6/day
Strangle Hold 1/day (DC 12+str or dex)
Class abilities:
Fast Movement (Bar), Fast Movement (Monk), Uncanny Dodge (Bar), Imp Uncanny Dodge (Bar), Danger Sense +1 (Bar) , evasion (Monk), Flurry of Blows (Monk), Maneuver Training (Grapple +1) (Monk), Still Mind, Purity of Body, Brawler’s Cunning, Strangle, Practiced Strangler, Trapfinding +2, Dual Indentity, Seemless Guise, Unshakeable, Startling Appearance, Accuracy, Deadly Range, Secret Identity, Avenger Finesse, Avengers Target (+1 on piercing), Scout’s Charge, Swashbuckler & Gunslinger deeds, Musket Training (dex2damage), Bravery +1 (Fig), Armor Training (Fig), Weapon Training: Firearms (Fig), Track (Ran), Wild Empathy (Ran), Favored Terrain: Underground (Ran), Bloodline (Blood), Blood Sanctuary (Blood), Aura of Courage (Pal), Beauty Unyielding (Pal), Cavalier’s Charge (Cav), Expert Trainer (Cav) Banner (Cav)

Hunters Bond (Ran): Wolf (Druid level 2)
Familiar (Adept): Raccoon (Valet): (Note, the monkey shares his Craft Wondrous Items and Escape Route feats, I may stat it out later, but probably it should be wielding a small mucket (-4 non-proficient, -2 incorrect size, but +2 dex, +2 size, +5 bab means it could shoot with +3 touch attacks at 40’ range. Stand behind the gestalt to enable escape route. It can make its own bullets or craft magic items.)
Horse (Cav): Druid level 5)

Adept Spells: L0: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Ghost Sound
L1: Bless, Comprehend Languages, Obscuring Mist
L2: Invisibility, See Invisibility
Ranger Spells: L1, Abundant Ammunition, Entangle
Paladin Spells: L1, Grace, Lesser Restoration
Bloodrager spells (2/day): Mage Armor, Shield, Corrosive Touch (Note: He can use 2 Bloodrage uses to Extend any of these, so he will usually start the day by Extending a Mage Armor for 10 hour duration)

By way of comparison, here is the 3.5 all T4 and below gestalt from 2 years ago:

Level 5 T4G (Tier 4: Adept (Religious)(Spell Domain), Barbarian (Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy, Trapkiller), Hexblade (Dark Companion), Marshal, Ranger (arcane hunter), Rogue (Spell Reflection, Mimic, Disruptive Attack), Scout (Dungeon Specialist), Spellthief, Warlock, Warmage, Magewright
Tier 5: Expert, Fighter (Zhentarim Soldier), Healer, Knight, Monk, Ninja (I don’t have the Rokugan one), Paladin (Drakkensteed Mount), Soulknife, Swashbuckler
Tier 6: Samurai,
Other: Divine Mind (Knowledge Mantle), Dragon Shaman (Copper) (Shamanic Invocation), Lurk, Psychic Rogue, Soulborn, Truenamer
Str 8, Dex 13+1 =14, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 14=14(16)
Initiative +12 (+2 Dex, +1 scout, +4 Improved Initiative, +3 Marshal Aura, +2 Speed of Darkness (R Ninja))
AC 21 (Dex +2, Wis +2, Ninja +1, Divine Mind Aura +1, Swashbuckler Dodge Bonus +1, Mage Armor +4)
Fort Save +4 (Base) +0 (Con) +3 (Grace) +2 Great Fortitude+1 (Scout)=+10 (12 v. spells/spell likes)
Reflex Save +4 (Base) +2 (Dex) +3 (Divine Grace) (+1 Swashbuckler Grace)=+10 (12 v. spells/spell likes)
Will Save +4 (Base) +2 (Wis) +3 (Grace) = +9 (11 v. spells/spell likes)
Power Points: 9 (Divine Mind) 12 (Lurk) 11 psychic rogue
Ki points: 4 (Ghost Step) Turn Attempts: 5 Knights Challenge 0/day, Hexblade curse 3/day
Detect Magic, 3d6 Eldrich Blast, Spider Climb, 2d6 acid breath 30’line at will
Lay on Hands (Paladin) 15 points
Sudden Strike +3d6, Sneak Attack +3d6 Skirmish +2d6, +1AC,
Favored Enemy: Undead +2, Arcanists +4, Smite Evil 2/day +3 to hit/+5 damage, Smite Opposition 2/day, +3 hit +5 damage, Kiai Smite 1/day +3 hit +3 damage, Insightful Strike (+2 damage on finessable weapons)
Mind Blade (Short Sword): To hit +9(+5 BAB, +2 Dex, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 enhancement) Damage 1d6+2 (-1 str, +2 insightful strike, +1 enhancement) (+1d8 Psychic strike)
Eldrich Glaive: Touch attack: To Hit +8 (+5 BAB, +2 Dex+1 Weapon Focus) Damage 3d6

HP 39 (12+6.5*4+1 (Dragontouched), DR 1/Cold Iron
Skills:
Diplomacy 8 ranks +3 (Skill Focus) +3 (Cha) +6 Beguiling Influence+3 Aura = +23
Intimidate 8 ranks +3 (Cha)+6 Beguiling Influence +3 Aura, +3 Skill Focus Intimidate= 23
Hide 8 Ranks +2 (Dex)+3 Skill Focus+3 aura=16
Move S 8 ranks +2 (Dex)+3 aura = 13
Search 7 ranks +2 (Int) +1 Dragontouched +3 aura =+13
Bluff 1 rank +3 Cha +6 Beguiling Influence +3 aura=+13
UMD 8 ranks +3 (Cha) +3 aura(Can Take 10 from Warlock)=+14
Spot 8 Ranks +2 (Wis) +1 (Dragontouched)
Listen 8 Ranks +2 (Wis) +1 Dragontouched)
Concentration 8 ranks + 0 (Con) =8 (12 for casting defensively)
Know (Religion) 5 ranks +2 (Int) +2aura +3 Knowledge Focus (Truenamer)=9
Sense Motive 1 ranks +2 (Wis)=3
Heal 1 rank +2 (Wis) +3 (Skill Focus)=6
Jump 1 rank +2 (Dex) +4 Ninja+3 aura=10
Spellcraft 4 +2 (Int) +2 (Aura) =8
Ride 4 +2 (Dex) +3 (Aura) =9
Knowledge Skills (untrained)=2 (Int) +2 (Divine Mind Aura)+6 marshal aura=+6
(or take away 8 ranks from otherwise maxed skills and add Truespeaking 8+2(int) +3 (aura)=+13
Class Abilities : Trapfinding (CA Ninja), Divine Grace (Divine Mind), Psychic Aura (Defense gives +1 AC, +1 Knowledge checks to friendlies within 15 feet), Cleanse Fear (Healer), Cleanse Paralysis (Healer), Cleanse Disease (Healer), Aura of Courage (Paladin), Divine Health (Paladin), Detect Evil (Paladin), Bulwark of Defense (Knight), Vigilant Defender (Knight), Free Draw of Mind Blade, Steal Spell Effect, Steal Energy Resistance, Steal Spell-like Ability, Steal Spell (2nd), Dark Companion, Mettle, Evasion (Scout, Monk), Trapfinding (spellthief, scout, monk), Mimic (Rogue), Poison Use (Ninja), Fast Movement (Scout, Monk), Trackless Step (Scout), Uncanny Dodge (Scout), Improved Uncanny Dodge (Barbarian), Trapsense (Rogue), Trapkiller (Barbarian), Pounce (Barbarian), Whirling Frenzy (Barbarian), Grant move action 1/day (Marshal), Lurk Augments 6/day (basically +1d6 sneak attack or +3d6 sneak attack for 4 power points on next attack as a swift), Shape Soulmelds, +2 AC when standing next to a wall (Scout)

Marshal Auras: Motivate Dexterity, Intelligence, Charisma,
Major Marshal Auras: Motivate Ardor (+1 damage), Resilient Troops (+1 Saves)
Draconic Auras: Vigor, Energy Shield, Presence, Senses
Powers: Divine Mind: Call To Mind (Spend 1 minute to reroll a failed Knowledge check at +4)
Lurk: L1 Burst, Dimension pocket, Conceal Thoughts
L2: Elfsight, Animal Affinity
Psychic Rogue:L1 Detect Secret Doors, Empathy, Catfall
L2 Psychic Knock
Spells: Healer: L1: Speak With Animals, Sanctuary x2, Protection From Evil x2, Goodberry
L2 Calm Emotions, Cure Mod Wounds (2d8+8)x2, Lesser Restoration, Remove Blindness
L3: Close Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Remove Curse
Ranger:L1 Snipers Shot Paladin: L1 Grave Strike
Spellthief spells (1/day): Enlarge Person, Golemstrike
Hexblade spells (1/day): Catsfeet, Distract Assailant
Magewright Spells: L1 Grease x2, Unseen Servant
L2 Arcane Lock, Locate Object
Adept Spells: L1: Mage Armor x3
L2: Mirror Image, Silence
Invocations: Eldrich Glaive, See The Unseen, Swimming the Styx, Beguiling Influence (from Dragon Shaman)
Warmage Advanced Learning: Persistent Blade

Feats:
L1 Fighter bonus Feat: Weapon Focus (Touch). Weapon focus (soulknife), Imp unarmed Strike, Imp Grapple (Monk), EWP Bastard Sword (samurai), Skill Focus (Diplomacy) (Marshal), Track (Ranger), Human feat: Dragontouched Level 1 Feat: Darkstalker, Weapon Finesse (Swashbuckler)
L2 Skill Focus (Hide)(Dragon Shaman), Combat Reflexes (Monk), Fighter Bonus:Martial Study Shadow Blade Technique, Ranger Combat Style Feat: Two Weapon Fighting, Skill Focus (Heal) (Healer), Mounted Combat (Knight)
L3 Incarnum Feat (Soulborn, out of my league here, need help), Endurance (Ranger), Level 3 feat: Craft Wondrous Items, Skill Focus Intimidate (Zhentarim Fighter)
L4 Fighter Bonus Feat Martial Stance: Island of Blades, Scout Bonus Feat:Improved Initiative
L5 Combat Casting (Hexblade), Great Fortitude (Knight)

Headband of Charisma +2
Ranger Pet: Wolf
Paladin Mount:Drakkensteed 10 hours/day
Adept Familiar: Raven (Will aid another for another +2 on social skills)

[Gnaeus]

So, some preliminary observations, I'll have some more ideas when I do the level 10 build.

Stuff I learned

1. PF has a lot more fiddly bits than 3.5. I think if Psyren or Eggy or OldTrees or some other forum poster wanted to go through the work and remake the 3.5 gestalt, it would look a lot like mine. If they did the PF one, it would look very different. There were a lot more decision points. I guess thats a feature.

2. PF has more muggle classes, 3.5 has more caster ones. In the 3.5 build, the a lot of the heavy lifting, power wise, was done by the full 9 classes. Healer and Warmage. Kineticist is a poor replacement for Warlock, and Bloodrager is a poor replacement for Hexblade. To be fair, the 3.5 version included the Psionic classes, and I may go back and re-add them later, even though they are 3pp. The 3.5 version felt like a super-caster. This guy feels like I took a super hero team and merged their powers. On the other hand, the PF version can do Item Crafting much better than the 3.5.

Comparative power level: Well, at level 5, the T1s haven't really reached the fullness of their power. The wizard only has level 3 spells, where the gestalt has 2nds. By most measures, I think he bears out well compared with high tier rivals.
Does he look like a T1 at this level:
Gamebreaking tricks: none really yet. But then, the T1s can't really do many yet at 5 either.
Combat ability: exceptional
Action economy: good. 3 minions, lots of swift action tricks
Strategic power: He's famous? Good at crafting.
Ability to do anything:
Healing: Poor. Basically Paladin
Melee: Very good
Ranged single target: Very good
Ranged multi-target: Poor
Crowd Control: Grapple, entangle
Divinations: Detect Evil, Augury
Skillmonkey: Very good
Travel: Fast movement and climb
Difficulty to challenge by DM: Pretty tough. Solid AC and HP. Good self healing. Lots of immunities. Very good saves. Few if any real weaknesses

Emerging Synergies: Gunslinger with extra ranged feats is good. So is Monk + Swashbuckler. Spin Kick automatically activates at least 1 sneak attack on any full attack. The Brawler martial flexibility is much stronger than normal, because a Brawler isn't likely to have enough features to support multiple fighting styles, but this guy could use it for ranged feats, melee fighting, etc...

Concept: To me, it has kind of an anime//western feel to it. He roams the land with his gun, his horse, his intelligent raccoon and his dog, then surprises enemies with his earthbending and his kung fu.

[Shadowscale]

On Fighter w/ AWT/AAT, what are the abbreviations for?

[Psyren]

I personally think Warmage // Healer gets to T2 even before you start throwing in rogues and such.


On Fighter w/ AWT/AAT, what are the abbreviations for?

Advanced Weapon Training/Advanced Armor Training

[Sahleb]

Honestly, iif U-rogue is t3, paladin really should be as well, I think.

[Psyren]

Honestly, iif U-rogue is t3, paladin really should be as well, I think.

Paladins are great at fighting in PF, but don't function well enough outside of combat situations. With only 2+Int skills from a weak list and few to no out of combat utility, they have a hard time making a case for T3. A uRogue meanwhile is good at fighting, but can also successfully contact the resistance or acquire the plot macguffin from the booby-trapped dragon's hoard without a fight if he needs to, all in the same build.

There are archetypes however that can get Paladins to T3, like Sacred Servant and Temple Champion, by allowing you to address the out of combat deficiency.

[Gnaeus]

Level 10

Level 10 T4G (PF Version) ½ elf
Unchained Barbarian, Unchained Monk (FC), Paladin (Oathbound: Oath against Grotesquery), Ranger (Cinderwalker), Gunslinger, Rogue(Scout) (Dark Lurker), Adept. Swashbuckler (Mysterious Avenger) Fighter, Brawler, Slayer (Sniper), Kineticist (FC), Bloodrager (Metamagic Rager), Cavalier Order of the Beast, Vigilante
15 PB
Str 8, Dex 13+1 =14, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 14 +2 (Race) =16
HP 80 (12+6.5x9+10 con)
Reflex +12 (+7 base, +2 dex, +3 cha), Fort +11 (+7 base, +3 cha, +1 con), Will +12 (+7 base, +2 wis, +3 cha) (+2 vs enchantment)
Init +10 (+2 dex, +2 swashbuckler init, +2 Gunslinger init, +4 Improved Init)
Favored Terrain: Underground +4, Volcanic +2
Skills:
Acrobatics 10 ranks +2 dex +3 class=+15
Sense Motive 10 ranks +2 wis +3 class +4 social grace=+19
Stealth 10 ranks +2 dex +3 class=+15
Spellcraft 10 ranks +1 int +3 class +4 Social grace=+18
Craft Alchemy 10 ranks +1 int +3 class=+14
Perception 10 +2 wis +3 class=+15
Disguise 5 ranks +3 cha +3 class=+11 + special bonuses
Disable Device 10 ranks +2 dex +3 class=+15
Know (Arcana, Religion, Local, Dungeoneering, Nature) 1 rank +1 int +3 class=+5
Ride 5 ranks +2 dex +3 class=+10
Fly 5 ranks +2 dex +3 class=+10
Base Move 60, +30 enhance, Climb 60, Earthglide 60, Fly 60
Elemental Focus: Earth, expanded focus Air
Panache/grit: 3(swash) +2 (Gun)=5
Earth Blast, +13 (+10 bab, +2 dex, +1 point blank) 5d6+7
Electric Blast +13 (10 bab, +2 dex, +1 Point blank) 5d6 +1
Infusions (will not be used): Pushing, Entangling, Magnetic, Draining
DR 5/Adamantine (Kenny), 2/- Barbarian
Immunities/resistances: Fear (Paladin 3), Disease (Monk 5), Imp Evasion (Monk), Charms (Pal), Feather Fall (kenny), Fire Resist 10 (Ran)
Utility Talents: Kinetic Cover (Kenny 2), Earth Climb (Kenny4), Tremorsense(Kenny6), Air Cushon (Kenny8), Wings of Air(Kenny10), Earth Glide(FCB)
Favored Enemy: Undead +6, Construct, Ooze +2
Unarmed (Is piercing, so qualifies for Swashbuckler bonuses), Magic, Cold Iron, Silver, Lawful +14/+14/+9 (+10 BaB, +2 dex, +1 WF, +1 avengers target Flurry)/ 1d10+10 (-1 str, +10 precise strike, +1 avengers target)
Style Strikes: Spin Kick, Leg Sweep
Musket +15 (+10 BaB, +2 dex, +1 WF, +2 weapon group), standard action to reload. 1d12+4 19-20 (x4), Touch attack
Grapple +15 (+2 maneuver Training, +2 favored maneuver, +2 Imp Grapple, +10 BAB, -1 Str)
Trip +12 (+1 maneuver training, +2 Imp trip, +10 BaB, -1 str)
Sleeper Hold 2/day (DC 15+str or dex)
Avengers Target (at will, swift action) can have up to 2 targets at a time, grants +2/+2 and skill bonuses
AC +3 monk, +1 dodge, +3 Nimble, +2 dex, +2 Wis, +4 mage armor =25
Ki Pool (5+wis)=7
Monk power: Augury (4), Power Attack (FCB 4), Elemental Fury(6), Abundant Step(8), Ki Visions(10)

Sneak Attack 5d6 (+3d6 when grappling), Hidden strike +5d8,
Senses: Detect Evil at will, Low Light Vision, Tremorsense, Darkvision
Smite Evil (4x/day) +3/+10
Lay On Hands (7x/day), 5d6, cures fatigue (convenient for after rages), dazed, cursed
Studied Target +2
Rogue Talents: Shadow Strike (2), Ninja Trick (Style master) (4), Weapon Training: unarmed(6) Crippling Strike(10)
Slayer Talent: Blood Reader, Bleeding attack (6), Rogue Talent: Combat Trick (8), Rogue Talent: feat
Social Talents: Renown, Safehouse, Celebrity Discount, Social Grace: Spellcraft, Sense Motive, Incredible Renown
Vigilante Talents: Favored Maneuver: Grapple (+2), Sure Footed, Blind Spot, Shadow’s Speed, Shadow’s Sight
Bloodrage: 23 rounds/day (Used to fuel metamagic only)
Rage (+2 attack, damage, will saves, 20 temp HP, -2 AC): 23 rounds/day, Rage Powers: Scent, Energy Resistance (Cold) 5, Strength Stance (+3 CMB/CMD), Improved DR x2 (Becomes 6/-)
Divine Bond: Weapon Bond (10 minutes/level) +2
Feats: L1: Combat Reflexes (Monk1), stunning fist (Monk1), Point Blank Shot (fight1), EWP Whip (Swashbuckler), Gunsmithing (Gun), Fey Foundling (ECL1), Escape Route (Cav)
L2 Dodge (Monk2), Weapon Focus: Musket (Fight2), Blind Fight (Rog), Improved Grapple (Vig), Rapid Reload: (Musket/pistol) (Ran)
L3 Endurance (Ran), Extend Spell (ECL 3)
L4 Snake Style (Rogue 4), Secret Stash Deed (Gun), Eschew Material (Blood), Quick draw (Fighter4)
L5 Improved Initiative (Brawler 5), Craft Wondrous Items (ECL 5)
L6 Improved Trip (Monk), Snake Sidewind(fig6), Precise Shot (ran), Quicken Spell (Blood), Weapon Focus: Unarmed (Rog)
L7 Telepathic Link(ECL7)
L8 Mobility (Fig8), Leaping Shot Deed(Gun8), Improved Blind Fight (Rogue)
L9 Dimensional Agility(ECL9), Dazing Spell (Blood), Coordinated Maneuvers (Cav)
L10 Snake Fang(Fig10), Improved Crit (Musket/pistol) (Monk), Imp Precise Shot (Ran), Dimensional assault(Rogue 10)
Tactician (Swift) 3/day 8 rounds
Martial Flexibility (8/day), up to 3 feats at a time.
Greater Charmed Life 8/day
Mount Wild Shape 2/day
Class abilities:
Fast Movement (Bar), Fast Movement (Monk), Uncanny Dodge (Bar), Imp Uncanny Dodge (Bar), Danger Sense +3 (Bar) , evasion (Monk), Flurry of Blows (Monk), Maneuver Training (Grapple +1) (Monk), Still Mind, Purity of Body, Brawler’s Cunning, Strangle, Practiced Strangler, Trapfinding +2, Dual Indentity, Seemless Guise, Unshakeable, Startling Appearance, Accuracy, Deadly Range, Secret Identity, Avenger Finesse, Avengers Target (+1 on piercing), Scout’s Charge, Skirmisher, Swashbuckler & Gunslinger deeds, Musket/Pistol Training (dex2damage), Bravery +1 (Fig), Armor Training (Fig), Weapon Training: Firearms (Fig), Track (Ran), Wild Empathy (Cav), Swift Tracker (Ran), Cinderwalk (Ran), Bloodline (Elemental Water)(Blood), Blood Sanctuary (Blood), Aura of Courage (Pal), Beauty Unyielding (Pal), Cavalier’s Charge (Cav), Expert Trainer (Cav) Banner (Cav), Imp Evasion (Monk), Aura of Resolve (Pal), Advanced Weapon Training: Weapon Specialist.

Familiar (Adept): Raccoon (Valet): (Note, the Raccoon shares his Craft Wondrous Items, Gunsmithing, Coordinated Maneuvers and Escape Route feats, I may stat it out later, but probably it should be wielding a small mucket (-4 non-proficient, -2 incorrect size, but +2 dex, +2 size, +10 bab means it could shoot with +8 touch attacks at 40’ range. Stand behind the gestalt to enable escape route. It can make its own bullets or craft magic items.)
Horse (Cav): Druid level 10 + Wild Shape 2/day

Adept Spells: L0: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Ghost Sound
L1: Bless, Comprehend Languages, Obscuring Mist, Protection from evil
L2: Invisibility, See Invisibility, Web
L3 Neutralize Poison
Ranger Spells: L1, Abundant Ammunition, Entangle, Longshot
L2: Barkskin, Wild Instinct
L3:0
Paladin Spells: L1, Grace, Lesser Restoration, Liberating Command
L2: Carry Companion, Remove Paralysis
L3: Greater MW.
Bloodrager spells (3/day): Mage Armor, Shield, Corrosive Touch, Burning Hands*, Enlarge Person, Mount (Note: He can use 2 Bloodrage uses to Extend any of these, so he will usually start the day by Extending a Mage Armor for 20 hour duration)
L2 (2/day) Scorching Ray *, False Life, Resist Energy, Burning Gaze, Glitterdust
L3 (2/day) Paragon Surge, Fireball

And again, for comparison, the old 3.5 version:
Level 10 T4G AL: LG* Worships: Sovereign host(Tier 4: Adept (Spell Domain), Barbarian (Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy, Trapkiller), Hexblade (Dark Companion), Marshal, Ranger (arcane hunter, Feign Death), Rogue (Spell Reflection, Mimic, Disruptive Attack), Scout, Spellthief, Warlock, Warmage
Tier 5: Expert, Fighter (Zhentarim Soldier), Healer, Knight, Monk (Invisible Fist), Ninja (both), Paladin (Drakkensteed Mount, curse breaker), Soulknife, Swashbuckler
Tier 6: Samurai,
Other: Divine Mind (Knowledge Mantle), Dragon Shaman (Copper) (Shamanic Invocation), Lurk, Psychic Rogue, Soulborn, Truenamer
Str 8, Dex 13+1=14, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 14(16), Cha 14+1=15 (17)
Base speed 60
Initiative +14 (+2 Dex, +1 scout, +4 Improved Initiative, +3 Marsha Aura+2 Intelligence (Lurk), +2 intelligence (R ninja)
AC 27 (Dex +2, Wis +3, Ninja +1, Divine Mind Aura +3, Swashbuckler Dodge Bonus +2, Dodge +1, Natural Armor +1, Mage Armor +4)
Fort Save +7 (Base) +0 (Con) +3 (Grace) +2 Great Fortitude+1 (Scout)=+13 (16v. spells/spell likes)
Reflex Save +7 (Base) +2 (Dex) +3 (Divine Grace) (+1 Swashbuckler Grace) +2 Lightning Reflexes=+16 (19 v. spells/spell likes)
Will Save +7 (Base) +3 (Wis) +3 (Grace) +2 (while he has Ki)= +15 (18 v. spells/spell likes, + still mind)
Power Points: 24 (Divine Mind) 37 (Lurk) 30 psychic rogue
Ki points: 7 (Ghost Step, ethereal) Turn Attempts: 5 Knights Challenge 0/day (because he grossly violates code every combat), Hexblade curse 5/day
Detect Magic, Detect Evil, Blindsense 30, See Invisible, Darkvision At will Arcane Sight 3/day
3d6 Eldrich Blast, Spider Climb, 5d6 acid breath 30’line at will
Lay on Hands (Paladin) 30 points (Dragon Shaman) 60 points (Monk) 20 points Fiendish Resilience (Fast healing 1 for 2 minutes) 1/day as a free action
Sudden Strike +5d6, Sneak Attack +5d6 Skirmish +3d6, +2AC,
Favored Enemy: Constructs +2, Undead +4, Arcanists +6, Smite Evil 2/day +3 to hit/+10 damage, Smite Opposition 3/day, +3 hit +10 damage, Kiai Smite 3/day +3 hit +3 damage, Insightful Strike (+2 damage on finessable weapons)
Mind Blade (Keen Short Sword): To hit +14/+9 or +12/+12/+7/+7 (17-20x2) (Improved TWF)(+10 BAB, +1 Dex, +2 greater Weapon Focus, +1 enhancement) Damage 1d6+7(+1 str, +2 insightful strike, +1 enhancement, +3 Psychic Aura) (+2d8 Psychic strike)
Unarmed Strike: +9/+9/+9/+4/+4 (ITWF, Flurry)(+10 BAB, +1 Dex) Damage 1d10+6 (+1 str, +3 Psychic Aura, +2 Int) Magic, Lawful
Mind Blade (Keen Bastard Sword): To Hit +13/+8 (17-20x2)(+10 BAB, +1 Str, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 enhancement) Damage 1d10 +5 (+1 str, +1 enhancement, +3 Psychic Aura) (+2d8 Psychic Strike)
Eldrich Glaive: Touch attack: To Hit +12/7 (+10 BAB, +1 Str, +1 Weapon Focus) Damage 3d6+5 (+3 aura, +2 Weapon specialization)

HP 71 (12+6.5*9+1 (Dragontouched),
DR 2/Cold Iron, DR 2/-,Acid Immunity, Sonic Resist 5, Fire Resist 5
Skills:
Diplomacy 12 ranks +3 (Skill Focus) +3 (Cha) +6 Beguiling Influence+3 Aura +2 Bluff +2 sense motive= +31+ skill mastery
Intimidate 12 ranks +3 (Cha)+6 Beguiling Influence +3 Aura, +3 Skill Focus Intimidate, +4 Staredown +2 bluff= 33 + Skill Mastery+ Never Outnumbered Skill Trick
Hide 12 Ranks +1 (Dex)+3 Skill Focus+3 aura=19+ skill mastery
Move S 12 ranks +1 (Dex)+3aura = 16 + Skill mastery
Search 11 ranks +2 (Int) +1 Dragontouched +3 aura =+17
Bluff 5 rank +3 Cha +6 Beguiling Influence +3 aura +3 Skill Focus=+20
UMD 10 ranks +2 (Cha) +2 aura(Can Take 10 from Warlock)=+14
Spot 12 Ranks +2 (Wis) +1 (Dragontouched)=15
Listen 12 Ranks +2 (Wis) +1 Dragontouched)=15
Concentration 12 ranks + 0 (Con) =12 (16 for casting defensively)+ Skill Mastery
Know (Religion) 5 ranks +2 (Int) +3aura +3 (Knowledge focus (Truenamer)) =13
Sense Motive 5 ranks +2 (Wis)=7
Heal 1 rank +2 (Wis) +3 (Skill Focus)=6
Jump 1 rank +1 (Dex) +4 Ninja+2aura=8
Spellcraft 4 +2 (Int) +3 (Aura) =9
Ride 4 +1 (Dex) +2 (Aura) =7
Knowledge Skills (untrained)=2 (Int) +1 (Divine Mind Aura)+3 marshal aura=+6
(or take away 13 ranks from otherwise maxed skills and add Truespeaking 13+2(int) +3 (aura)=+18)
Class Abilities : Trapfinding (CA Ninja), Divine Grace (Divine Mind), Cleanse Fear (Healer), Cleanse Paralysis (Healer), Cleanse Disease (Healer), Cleanse Poison (Healer), Cleanse Spirit (Healer), Cleanse Blindness (Healer), Effortless Healing (Healer), Aura of Courage (Paladin), Divine Health (Paladin), Detect Evil (Paladin), Bulwark of Defense (Knight), Vigilant Defender (Knight), Free Draw of Mind Blade, Steal Spell Effect, Steal Energy Resistance, Steal Spell-like Ability, Steal Spell (5th), Dark Companion, Mettle, Evasion (Scout, Monk, lurk), Trapfinding (spellthief, scout, monk), Mimic (Rogue), Poison Use (Ninja), Fast Movement (Scout, Monk), Trackless Step (Scout), Uncanny Dodge (Scout), Improved Uncanny Dodge (Barbarian), Trapsense (Rogue), Trapkiller (Barbarian), Pounce (Barbarian), Whirling Frenzy 3/day(Barbarian), Grant move action 1/day (Marshal), Lurk Augments 12/day ( 2 at once:additional sneak attack, ignore concealment, sneak attack undead, Deceptive Strike), Shape Soulmelds, Acrobatic Charge (Swashbuckler), Improved Flanking (Swashbuckler), Mass Staredown (Samurai), Camoflage (Scout), Improved Poison Use (Ninja), Slow Fall 50 (monk), Improved Evasion (Monk), Bladewind (Soulknife), Absorb Spell (Spellthief), Skill Mastery (Intimidation, Diplomacy, Hide, Move Silently, Concentration), Swift Tracker, Woodland Stride (Ranger, Scout), Remove Curse (paladin 2/week), Extended Intimidation (Zhentarim), Swift Demoralization (Zhentarim)

Marshal Auras: Motivate Dexterity, Intelligence, Charisma,
Major Marshal Auras: Motivate Ardor (+1 damage), Resilient Troops (+1 Saves)
Draconic Auras (+3 Bonus): Vigor, Energy Shield, Presence, Senses, Power, Resistance
Divine Mind Psychic Auras (Always up): Defense (+3 AC), Power (+3 damage), +2 Knowledge)
Powers: Divine Mind: L1: Call To Mind (Spend 1 minute to reroll a failed Knowledge check at +4), Detect Teleportation
L2 Psionic Identify, Object Reading
Lurk: L1 Deaden Blow, Skate, Dimensional Pocket.
L2, Elfsight, Animal Affinity, Energy Adaptation
L3 Greater Concealing Amorphia, Psionic Speak With Dead, Ubiquitous Vision
L4 Psionic Dimension Door.
Psychic Rogue:L1 Detect Secret Doors, Empathy, Vigor
L2 Psychic Knock, Read Thoughts, Psionic Tongues
L3 Hustle, Dimension Slide
Spells: Healer: L1: Speak With Animals x2, Sanctuary x2, Protection From Evil x2, Goodberry
L2 Calm Emotions, Cure Mod Wounds (2d8+13)x4, Lesser Restoration,
L3: Close Woundsx3, Remove Curse, Status
L4: Death Ward x2, Freedom of Movement x2
L5: Break Enchantment x2, True Seeing, Raise Dead
Ranger:L1 Snipers Shot, Primal Hunter
L2: Primal Instinct, Barkskin
Paladin: L1 Golden Barding, Rhino’s Charge
L2: Zone of Truth, Bulls Strength
Spellthief spells L1 (2/day): Enlarge Person, Golemstrike, True Strike, Shield
L2 (2/day): Blur, Alter Self, Rope Trick
Hexblade spells L1(2/day): Protection from Chaos, Distract Assailant, Alarm, Augment Familiar
L2 (2/day): Glitterdust, Suggestion, Touch of Idiocy
Adept Spells: L1: Bless, Obscuring Mist, Mage Armor x2
L2: Mirror Image, Web, Silence
L3, Animate Dead, Anyspell
Invocations: Eldrich Glaive, See The Unseen, Swimming the Styx, Beguiling Influence (from Dragon Shaman), Relentless Dispelling, Fell Flight, Walk Unseen
Magewright Spells: L1 Grease x2, Unseen Servantx2
L2 Arcane Lock x2, Locate Object
L3 Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Warmage Advanced Learning: Persistent Blade
1st-Level Warmage Spells 7/dayAccuracy, Burning Hands, Chill Touch, Fist of Stone, Hail of Stone, Magic Missile, Orb of Acid, Lesser, Orb of Cold, Lesser, Orb of Electricity, Lesser, Orb of Fire, Lesser, Orb of Sound, Lesser, Shocking Grasp, True Strike

2nd-Level Warmage Spells 7/dayBlades of Fire, Continual Flame, Fire Trap, Fireburst, Flaming Sphere, Ice Knife, Melf's Acid Arrow, Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Whirling Blade

3rd-Level Warmage Spells 7/day: Fire Shield, Fireball, Flame Arrow, Gust of Wind, Ice Storm, Lightning Bolt, Poison, Ring of Blades, Sleet Storm, Stinking Cloud

4th-Level Warmage Spells 5/day:Blast of Flame, Contagion, Evard's Black Tentacles, Orb of Acid, Orb of Cold, Orb of Electricity, Orb of Fire, Orb of Force, Orb of Sound, Phantasmal Killer, Shout, Wall of Fire

5th-Level Warmage Spells 3/day:Arc of Lightning, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Fire Shield, Mass, Fireburst, Greater, Flame Strike, Prismatic Ray


Feats:
L1 Fighter bonus Feat: Weapon Focus (Touch attacks). Weapon focus (soulknife), Imp unarmed Strike, Imp Grapple (Monk), EWP Bastard Sword (samurai), Skill Focus (Diplomacy) (Marshal), Track (Ranger), Human feat: Dragontouched Level 1 Feat: Darkstalker, Weapon Finesse (Swashbuckler)
L2 Skill Focus (Hide)(Dragon Shaman), Combat Reflexes (Monk), Fighter Bonus: Weapon Focus Ranged Touch, Ranger Combat Style Feat: Two Weapon Fighting, Skill Focus (Heal) (Healer), Mounted Combat (Knight)
L3 Incarnum Feat (Soulborn), Endurance (Ranger), Level 3 feat: ???, Skill Focus Intimidate (Zhentarim Fighter)
L4 Fighter Bonus Feat Weapon Specialization Touch, Scout Bonus Feat:Dodge
L5 Combat Casting (Hexblade), Great Fortitude (Knight)
L6 Speed of Thought (soulknife), Imp Trip (Monk), Fighter Bonus Feat Martial Study Shadow Jaunt, Ranger Combat Style ITWF, Level 6 Feat: Celestial Familiar
L7 Sudden Empower (Warmage), Incarnum Feat
L8 Skill Focus Bluff(Dragon Shaman), Fighter Bonus Feat Martial Stance Island of Blades, Improved Initiative (Samurai), Scout Bonus Feat Lightning Reflexes
L9 GWF Mind Blade (Soul Knife), Level 9 feat: Imperious command
L10 Sudden Enlarge (Warmage), Fighter Bonus Feat Improved Critical Ranged Touch, Spell Penetration (Hexblade), Diehard (Knight), Blind Fight (R Ninja)

Ranger Pet: Wolf
Paladin Mount:Drakkensteed 20 hours/day
Healer Pet Unicorn
Adept Familiar: Musteval Guardinal (at level 11 he will retrain Celestial Familiar to Draconic Familiar)
Periapt of Wis +2. Bracers of Entangling Blast x2 Headband of Cha +2.

[Gnaeus]

Stuff I learned

1. Aside from much worse casting, there are a lot of utility powers the PF version has at a much reduced level. The 3.5 guy had a ton of at will divinations, stuff like see invisibility at will, invisibility at will, blindsight 30. The PF version has invisibility as a spell, see invisibility as a spell, and tremorsense as a move action. Thats a lot worse. Vigilante gets a Darkstalker like ability, but the perception user gets +20 perception for each sense being bypassed. much worse.

2. While innately it didn't have access to all the tricks of a T1, the 3.5 version had easy ways to get them. UMDing a runestaff with Warmage slots, for example, or arcane disciple. The PF version can mimic any trick a rogue can do, but can't mimic any T1-2 trick, other than the normal route of buying a scroll.

Comparative power level: Well, he's certainly ahead of anything in T3. he might scratch T2, but he might not, depending on definitions and what equivalent optimization would mean here.

Does he look like a T1 at this level:
Gamebreaking tricks: Feeling the pain here. He can break encounters, but very little else. No equivalents to common T1 tricks like Planar binding/ally, etc. The 3.5 version could at least use diplomancy cheese and basically had "I win initiative" as a class ability. By comparison, this guy doesn't have the skill points to even be good at diplomacy, and at +10, his initiative is very good, but not amazingly so for a 10th level dex-monkey
Combat ability: exceptional
Action economy: good. 2 minions, lots of swift action tricks. His ability to earth meld at will may serve as a poor man's time stop, giving him rounds for healing, buffing, reloading, etc.
Strategic power: He's very famous? Good at crafting.
Ability to do anything:
Healing: Poor. Basically Paladin, + a couple of heals from Adept
Melee: very good
Ranged single target: Very exceptional
Ranged multi-target: Better than before. Bloodrager gives him things like Dazing or Quickened Fireball or Scorching Ray. Not very often, but he probably won't need them very often either.
Crowd Control: Grapple, trip, web, dazing spell, entangle. Not fantastic, but respectable.
Divinations: Detect Evil, Augury, Divination. I'm underwhelmed
Skillmonkey: Good, but sadly he doesn't have enough skill points to cover all his needs.
Travel: Tactical travel is very good. He can outrun his horse, with at will earth meld and flight. He can't swim, but he can wildshape his horse into an underwater mount and he can breathe underwater, so not sweating it. He can D Door. Strategic travel is pretty bad. No Teleport or equivalents.
Difficulty to challenge by DM: Would certainly need to have specific encounters built to challenge him. Solid AC and HP. Good self healing. Lots of immunities. Very good saves. Few if any real weaknesses.

Emerging Synergies: The best thing I can think of is this: He stands outside a door. Spends a grit (which he will probably get back.) Earth melds into ground, using rapid stealth. Stealths up in the next room. Gets a full round of pistol attacks, all of which get sneak attack. Melds BACK into the floor, going 10 feet into solid rock. Falls prone, then stands up as a swift, all in one round. Its only a combat trick, but it is a heck of a combat trick.

Paragon surge is a FANTASTIC spell, and he gets more diverse uses of it than most characters, because he has multiple fighting options and a ton of class features and feat prereqs, and it has a lot of synergy with the brawler versatile fighting. BUT a sorcerer or oracle can take expanded arcana to pick up any spell on his list. Our gestalt doesn't have any options with that kind of chops. (well, he can do that, but adding any one or 2 spells off the bloodrager list is a little bit less awe inspiring)

The pet raccoon with a gun riding on the horse wildshaped into a flying dinosaur is not amazing as level 10 tricks go, but it does get extra cool points.

[Florian]

@Gnaeus:

Looking at the choices you made, especially on stuff like Tricks or Ki Powers, make me wonder pretty much because I don´t see any intentional synergies there.

I did a rough calculation myself and ended up with something that breaks combat encounters by simply eliminating them before they happen and has SLAs for most relevant non-combat things like travel and social scenes, also breaking them by overpowering them.

Still not close to T2 because lacking the ability to go against "universal" situations, but pretty good against specific ones.

[Gnaeus]

Well, there are some that emerged automatically (like monk AC+nimble, or the 2 stacking init bonuses) and a few that were simply obvious to me (like, if I see a familiar and a pile of tactical feats, I know I want valet). I have no doubt you, or even I could do better, and certainly would if it was a PC. My goal was looking at it like a baseline. Like, we don't know what route any given Druid will follow, but we know Natural Spell is a good assumption.

With the 3.5 version, there were so many abilities that the synergies made themselves. Like, it was clear that Warmage Paladin needed high cha. So picking the aura that adds cha to Cha skills was a no-brainer. Then he got skill focus diplomacy as a bonus feat from somewhere. And by the time I was done he has a +34 and skill mastery. It was barely a choice.

On this build, a main guiding principles were to avoid having the same ability from 4 places and to make choices that didn't obviously suck. So, for example, strangler is weaker than brawler, but flurry and unarmed strike progression were redundant. So now he has some wierd grapple bonuses, so I'd better drop a talent to give him improved grapple, and stick random maneuver bonuses into grapple. I can't see him using it often, but what the heck.

2 of the choices that I DID make were what attack forms to focus on. I decided that gunslinger was too good to ignore, so I made it the ranged option. Then the ranger feats went to things that helped gunslinger, weapon style firearms, etc. I could have picked kinetic blast instead. For melee, I decided monk stuff was too good to miss, so I focused on unarmed strike, and then I needed a style feat to make unarmed strikes piercing so he could swashbuckle them. So once I had snake style I followed the style tree. And once I had those 3 feats I knew I needed max sense motive. And since he is confirming unarmed strike crits with sense motive I added a vigilante bonus to sense motive. But I could have just picked any piercing monk weapon and we would have had a different stream of picks. I guessed ranged would be more key than melee, so improved crit musket/pistol rather than unarmed.

As far as monk powers went, I was feeling the lack of divination chops. I really wanted some information gathering powers, and I didn't have many good options. So, Augury and Divination. Bloodrager was similar. I needed arcane casting powers way more than another type of rage, so Bloodrager became a Tier 5 sorcerer giving meta magic feats and metamagic cost reduction and Mage armor and Paragon Surge, so I barely even bothered to pick a bloodline. Kineticist was all about movement modes and powers that had no burn. I'm not even sure what all his infusions do, but I'm sure that gathering power is almost never going to be a winner for him.

[Florian]

Let´s face it: Even on a regular two-class Gestalt, you´ve got an active and a passive side of the //.
That will pretty much govern how the "build" of each side will be formed.

So, say Fighter//Ninja will probably put the Fighter to the passive side, give it the Relic Master archetype and outfit it with 3-4x Relic Master feat to gain Fly, Telekinesis, Teleport and Divination along with Mirror Image and Invisibility it already has.

All your classes seem to be switched to active mode, thereby bringing no support options to the table, like the mentioned Relic Master feats.

That´s why your PF build seems to lack in more "powerful" magical options compared to the 3,5 predecessor.

[SorenKnight]

I decided that gunslinger was too good to ignore, so I made it the ranged option. Then the ranger feats went to things that helped gunslinger, weapon style firearms, etc. I could have picked kinetic blast instead.

Why chose between gunslinger and kineticist blasts? Just pick up a conductive shotgun/blunderbuss/dragon pistol. It won't help the underlying lack of utility, but it'll let you apply extra damage and debuffs to your attacks.

[RalphMolden]

Storm Giants have their own gods. Skyrmir god of wanderlust

[Gnaeus]

Why chose between gunslinger and kineticist blasts? Just pick up a conductive shotgun/blunderbuss/dragon pistol. It won't help the underlying lack of utility, but it'll let you apply extra damage and debuffs to your attacks.

Good point. Note that it has no gear at all at the moment. And it is very good at acquiring gear cheaply. Here's why I didn't. Once you start down that road, you begin to have difficulty separating the class power from the gear power, and what is equivalent gear, and does everyone have magic mart, and should he get the cost reductions from vigilante or crafting, etc. In the older version, I gave him a small fraction of WBL for +2 dex and cha items, because I figured there was no way he wouldn't have those things, but those really only changed numbers.

Let's just say, rather, that this gestalt possesses the following qualities:
1. It can function with no/minimal gear at a high level of effectiveness. It looks more like a gearless Druid than a gearless fighter.
2. It can craft or otherwise obtain gear easily
3. It has a lot of areas that would be easily optimized with gold expenditure, and even without crafting, it is likely to have more gold than most to spend on those things, simply because it innately covers a lot of things (like flight, good damage, good saves, good AC etc) that most characters would spend money on.

Certainly, if I equipped it, it would have an AC in the high 30s, lots more caster tricks, etc.


Let´s face it: Even on a regular two-class Gestalt, you´ve got an active and a passive side of the //.
That will pretty much govern how the "build" of each side will be formed.

So, say Fighter//Ninja will probably put the Fighter to the passive side, give it the Relic Master archetype and outfit it with 3-4x Relic Master feat to gain Fly, Telekinesis, Teleport and Divination along with Mirror Image and Invisibility it already has.

Agreed. It could be built to a higher optimization level. I never even looked at that archetype, because it traded out abilities that were not duplicates (Although armor mastery is so useless to this build that maybe I should, and bravery isn't exactly duplicated, but he is immune to fear, so also pointless). Aside from the work involved in picking the most advantageous archetypes (instead of just looking at the chart, realizing that here is one more instance of Evasion or Uncanny Dodge that should be swapped for some non 0 thing) I also wanted to avoid tier arguments like (Class x+archetypes Y&Z is no longer T4).

So, your options are:
If you wanted, you could use it as a base and rebuild it at a higher optimization level. I'd be interested in seeing that.
or
We can just bear in mind that it is a baseline, so it should be compared with other classes that are not necessarily taking the strongest archetypes or class options, so a sorcerer without 2 extra spells known per level, or a wizard who isn't a Conjurer or Transmuter, etc...



All your classes seem to be switched to active mode, thereby bringing no support options to the table, like the mentioned Relic Master feats.

I think that there were a number of things I would consider passive classes in the build. when I think of a passive class in a gestalt, I am thinking of a class that just lends its abilities to the more active side. Swashbuckler is a passive class here. It is just adding its tricks (damage bonuses, AC bonuses, save bonuses) to a monk chassis. Kineticist, again, is virtually only there for movement.


That´s why your PF build seems to lack in more "powerful" magical options compared to the 3,5 predecessor.

I don't really think so. I mean, yes, I could scrape out some more tricks with more strategic archetype feat choices, but I think of that as an optimization level issue. It lacks powerful magical options because it doesn't have 2 sets of 5th level spells, and a couple more classes casting 4th level spells, and Kineticist provides half the utility of Warlock. Certainly, adding psionics back in will help it immensely.

Also, remember that its numbers are really better than they look. I didn't calculate Greater Magic Weapon, because he could cast it on either a gun or fists, but it would be cast somewhere. And it stacks well with divine bond. Barkskin wasn't included in AC calculations, because it isn't an hours spell, but would likely be up in any dangerous situation, etc.

[Gnaeus]

Which Psionic classes are fair to add? Soulknife obviously. Aegis certainly seems T4 to me (primary class ability being "super hard to kill", good in combat, minimal outside utility). Vitalist looks like psionic Healer, so low tier for the same reasons as 3.5 Healer. Obvously high tier are Psion, Wilder, Psi Warrior, and I think Tactician.

Somewhere near the T3-4 border seem to be Cryptic, Dread, Marksman. I'm ok with psionics, but we don't use them a lot, so please advise me here.

Since I'm looking at DSP ports of 3.5 material, I just thought I would check. All of the Akashic and PoW classes are tier 3+, yes? No stragglers?

[Florian]

If you wanted, you could use it as a base and rebuild it at a higher optimization level. I'd be interested in seeing that.

Been thinking about that. But that looks a bit like a futile attempt, as no matter how I view that Gestalt, a good third of the classes involved would cease to provide anything because even the least bit of optimization would drop their functionality. (Example: As most casting classes involved are CHA-based, I´d dump WIS, leading the Adept to cease functioning on any meaningful level)

[Gnaeus]

Been thinking about that. But that looks a bit like a futile attempt, as no matter how I view that Gestalt, a good third of the classes involved would cease to provide anything because even the least bit of optimization would drop their functionality. (Example: As most casting classes involved are CHA-based, I´d dump WIS, leading the Adept to cease functioning on any meaningful level)

Adept and ranger. And it would hit AC too. In play, we'd fix that with a headband of Cha +4, (or with different PB and point allocations, Wis +4).

Preliminary look at adding weak Psionic classes helps a lot. I can drop Str to 7 and Dex to 13, then get +6 Str and Dex enhancement bonuses from my Aegis suit. That makes stats at level 8: (15 PB)
Str 7+6
Dex 13+6
Con 13
Int 13
Wis 16
Cha 16
Which could easily be Wis 14, Cha 18. Even Cha 20 if we want to drop to con 11, int 10.

[Psyren]

That headband costs half your WBL at level 8, and you haven't bought armor or weapons yet. Not that you couldn't, just warning about the danger to your pocketbook.

[Gnaeus]

That headband costs half your WBL at level 8, and you haven't bought armor or weapons yet. Not that you couldn't, just warning about the danger to your pocketbook.

Not really. He could craft one for 8k, in only 4 days time. The only weapon he really needs is a double barreled musket and some pistols. And he doesn't use any armor. By 10th level with a couple weeks downtime I would expect a +6. Especially when you consider that it comes with the functionality of a vest of resist +3 and some healing belts just from other class features.

[Psyren]

Not really. He could craft one for 8k, in only 4 days time. The only weapon he really needs is a double barreled musket and some pistols. And he doesn't use any armor. By 10th level with a couple weeks downtime I would expect a +6. Especially when you consider that it comes with the functionality of a vest of resist +3 and some healing belts just from other class features.

Not even Bracers of Armor? Why not? And guns benefit from enchanting just like everything else. Not to mention Cloak of Resistance, Ring of Deflection, Amulet of Natural Armor etc.

[Gnaeus]

Not even Bracers of Armor? Why not? And guns benefit from enchanting just like everything else. Not to mention Cloak of Resistance, Ring of Deflection, Amulet of Natural Armor etc.

Well, he's got Mage Armor 20 hours per day from 1 Bloodrager slot, so the Bracers of Armor don't help unless he wants a +5 or better. The Charisma booster is a better way to raise his saves than the cloak of resistance, and his saves are already spiffy enough that he won't need both. Amulet of Natural Armor won't stack with his Barkskin. Yes, I guess he wants a ring of deflection. But even then, kick his Cha high enough and he will just memorize Protection from Evil, or cast Shield Other on one of his pets.

The primary gun is already benefiting from +2 enhancement from Greater Magic Weapon, with at will buffs from divine bond. Sure, we can kick that up a little bit, but it is a luxury, not a necessity. The charisma helps there as well. Smite Evil uses it.

Please tell me which psionic classes to add, Psyren.

[Psyren]

Well, he's got Mage Armor 20 hours per day from 1 Bloodrager slot, so the Bracers of Armor don't help unless he wants a +5 or better.

20 hours? Weren't you talking about a level 8 build?

Also, the bracers can carry armor special abilities, so there's still reason to wear them even if you've got Mage Armor up (and they can't be area-dispelled.)


The Charisma booster is a better way to raise his saves than the cloak of resistance, and his saves are already spiffy enough that he won't need both. Amulet of Natural Armor won't stack with his Barkskin. Yes, I guess he wants a ring of deflection. But even then, kick his Cha high enough and he will just memorize Protection from Evil, or cast Shield Other on one of his pets.

Cloak stacks with DG though. Your saves can't be too high I always say.

Pro: Evil won't help against a lot of enemies - most constructs, oozes, plants, animals, vermin...


The primary gun is already benefiting from +2 enhancement from Greater Magic Weapon, with at will buffs from divine bond. Sure, we can kick that up a little bit, but it is a luxury, not a necessity.

GMW won't beat DR, your main ranged attack mitigator.



Please tell me which psionic classes to add, Psyren.

You already named them - Soulknife, Aegis and Dread. (Vitalist is T3.)

[Gnaeus]

20 hours? Weren't you talking about a level 8 build?

10th level, but he has enough uses of bloodrage that spending 2 for extend spell first thing in the morning is easy.


Also, the bracers can carry armor special abilities, so there's still reason to wear them even if you've got Mage Armor up (and they can't be area-dispelled.)

But if the mage armor provides a higher armor bonus, the bracers turn off. They don't stack. You are right about the dispels though.


Cloak stacks with DG though. Your saves can't be too high I always say.

Pro: Evil won't help against a lot of enemies - most constructs, oozes, plants, animals, vermin...

True, True. But you are still talking about a less helpful than normal option (a deflection bonus that only helps against neutral foes), versus a more helpful than normal option (Charisma bonuses that help his casting, saves, saves again (because of charmed life), healing, panache, attack bonuses and deflection against smited targets, couple skills).

What he WANTS is a cloak of displacement. That will stack better.


GMW won't beat DR, your main ranged attack mitigator.

Again, you are right. And I should probably find a way to work in Clustered Shot. But he does bypass DR against smite targets, he carries a backup ranged weapon in the form of electric bolts, he can carry silver bullets and divine bond CAN bypass alignment types, and if he is shooting at range, it probably means he is using one of his tricks to get full round sneak attacks (like popping out of the ground with leaping shot deed.) and 1d10+4+5d6 sneak several times in a round is going to hurt no matter what the DR is. If none of that stuff works, it might be time to melee.

[Florian]

@Gnaeus:

Ok, challenge accepted.


Basics:
Race: Fetchling
PB and raises: still working on fine-tuning that, will edit later
Basic progression feats: Improved Bravery, Craft Wondrous Items, Craft Magis Arms and Armor, Disruptive , Spellbreaker

Classes, Archetypes (in parenthesis) and Choices involved:
- Adept: Spellcasting disregarded, brings ability to use Wands and Scrolls and CL to crafting.
Familiar: Greensting Scorpion
- Anti-Paladin (Gun Saint)
Bonus Feat: Precise Shot
Fiendish Boon: Pistol
Cruelty: Fatigues, Staggered, Frightened
- Bloodrager (Bloodrider), (Shadow Bloodline)
Bonus Feats: Improved Initiative, Step Up
- Brawler (none),
- Fighter (Relic Master),
Bonus Feats: Weapon Focus (Revolver, Unarmed Strike), Item Mastery (Flight Mastery, Telekinesis Mastery, Teleportation Mastery, Vision Mastery)
- Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger),
Bonus Feats: Fencing Grace, Piranha Strikes
- Kineticist (Elemental Ascetic), (Void)
Wild Talents: 5x Utility, 2x Infusion
- Ninja
Tricks: Rogue Trick (Cloying Shades, Feint from Shadows, Gloom Magic), Vanishing Trick, Invisible Blade
- Ranger (none), (RCS: Ranged)
Bonus Feats: Rapid Shot, Manyshot
FE/FT: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 2nd
- Samurai (none), (Order of the Eclipse),
Bonus Feats: Mounted Combat
- Slayer (Sniper, Stygian Slayer),
Tricks: Poison Use, Lasting Poison
- Swashbuckler (none),
Bonus Feats: Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge
- Unchained Barbarian (Savage Technologist),
Rage Powers: Dragon Totem, Dragon Totem Resilience, Ferocious Mount, Ferocious Trample, Eater of Magic
- Unchained Monk (Monk of the Mantis),
Bonus Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Hamatulatsu Style, Medusa´s Wrath
Ki Powers: Abundant Step
- Vigilante (Brute),
Social: Renown, Great Renown, Celebrity Discount, Celebrity Perks, Double Time
Vigilante: Awesome Blow, Scale Surroundings, Sizing Equipment, Blind Spot, Hide in Plain Sight


Done.

Skipped some minor details because I don´t think them necessary.

Basically a raging white Hulk charging on a raging Horse, the rage buffing Dex instead of Str, is invisible, clouded in deeper darkness, deals Monk unarmed damage with added Kineticist Blast damge and has absurdly high saves. Can do Dex2DMG with Fist and a Revolver and always has 50% Concealment.
SLAs include stuff up to Divination, Fly, Shadow Walk and Plane Shift.

[Gnaeus]

@Gnaeus:

Ok, challenge accepted.

Cool. I look forward to seeing it.

[Gnaeus]

Well, that took less time than I thought.

Level 10 T4G (PF Version) ½ elf
Unchained Barbarian, Unchained Monk (FC), Paladin (Oathbound: Oath against Grotesquery, Divine Hunter), Ranger (Cinderwalker), Gunslinger, Rogue(Scout) (Dark Lurker), Adept. Swashbuckler (Mysterious Avenger) Fighter, Brawler, Slayer (Sniper), Kineticist (FC), Bloodrager (Metamagic Rager), Cavalier Order of the Beast, Vigilante, Aegis, soulknife, dread
15 PB
Str 7 +6 (suit)=13, Dex 13 +6 (suit)=19, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 14 +2(level 4 &8)=16, Cha 14 +2 (Race) =16
HP 80 (12+6.5x9+10 con)
Reflex +14 (+7 base, +4 dex, +3 cha), Fort +11 (+7 base, +3 cha, +1 con), Will +12 (+7 base, +2 wis, +3 cha) (+2 vs enchantment)
Init +12 (+4 dex, +2 swashbuckler init, +2 Gunslinger init, +4 Improved Init)
Favored Terrain: Underground +4, Volcanic +2
Skills:
Acrobatics 10 ranks +4 dex +3 class=+17
Intimidate 10 ranks +3 cha +3 class +4 social grace +5 fearsome insight=+25
Stealth 10 ranks +4 dex +3 class=+17
Spellcraft 10 ranks +1 int +3 class +4 Social grace=+18
Craft Alchemy 10 ranks +1 int +3 class, +3 craftsman, +2 master craftsman=+19
Perception 10 +3 wis +3 class=+16
Disguise 5 ranks +3 cha +3 class=+11 + special bonuses
Disable Device 10 ranks +4 dex +3 class=+17
Know (Arcana, Religion, Local, Dungeoneering, Nature) 1 rank +1 int +3 class=+5
Ride 5 ranks +4 dex +3 class=+12
Fly 5 ranks +4 dex +3 class=+12
Base Move 85 +30 enhance, Climb 85 +10 enhance, Earthglide 85 +10 enhance, Fly 60 +10 enhance
Astral Suit (Skin) default configuration. Nimble x3, Brawn x3, Speed x5, Stalwart.
Elemental Focus: Earth, expanded focus Air
Panache/grit: 3(swash) +6 (Gun)=6
Earth Blast, +15 (+10 bab, +4 dex, +1 point blank) 5d6+7
Electric Blast +15 (10 bab, +4 dex, +1 Point blank) 5d6 +1
Infusions (will not be used): Pushing, Entangling, Magnetic, Draining
DR 5/Adamantine (Kenny), 4/- (Aegis)
Immunities/resistances: Fear (Dread), Disease (Monk 5), Imp Evasion (Monk), Charms (Pal), Feather Fall (kenny), Fire Resist 10 (Ran), Stalwart (Aegis)
Utility Talents: Kinetic Cover (Kenny 2), Earth Climb (Kenny4), Tremorsense(Kenny6), Air Cushon (Kenny8), Wings of Air(Kenny10), Earth Glide(FCB)
Favored Enemy: Undead +6, Construct, Ooze +2
Unarmed, Magic, Cold Iron, Silver, Lawful +11/+11/+6 (+10 BaB, +1 str, Flurry)/ 1d10+1 (+1 str)
Style Strikes: Spin Kick, Leg Sweep
2 light +3 ghost touch Soulknives (Piercing) +17/+17/+12 (+10 BAB, +4 dex, +1 WF soulknife, +3 enhance, +1 avengers target, -2 TWF) 1d6 +17 17-20x3 (+10 Precise strike, +1 avengers target, +3 enhance, +3 wis)
Blade Skills: Combat slide (2), Focused Offense (4), Full Enhancement (6), Twin Strike (8), Deadly Blow (10)
Devastating touch: +11 touch (+10 BAB, +1 str) 1d6+13 (10 dread +3 cha)
Terrors (16/day, swift action, DC18): Chase Terror (2), Horrible strike (4),Overwhelming fear (6) Haunting Steps (8), Steal Essence (10)
Musket+2 +19 (+10 BaB, +4 dex, +1 WF, +2 weapon group, +2 greater magic weapon), standard action to reload. 1d12+8 19-20 (x4), Touch attack
Grapple +19 (+2 maneuver Training, +2 favored maneuver, +2 Imp Grapple, +10 BAB, +1 Str, +2 Kraken Style)
Trip +12 (+1 maneuver training, +2 Imp trip, +10 BaB, -1 str)
Sleeper Hold 2/day (DC 15+str or dex)
Avengers Target (at will, swift action) can have up to 2 targets at a time, grants +2/+2 and skill bonuses
AC +3 monk, +1 dodge, +3 Nimble, +4 dex, +3 Wis, +4 mage armor =28
Ki Pool (5+wis)=7
Monk power: Augury (4), Power Attack (FCB 4), Elemental Fury(6), Abundant Step(8), Ki Visions(10)

Sneak Attack 5d6 (+3d6 when grappling), Hidden strike +5d8, Psychic Strike +3d8
Senses: Detect Evil at will, Low Light Vision, Tremorsense, Darkvision
Smite Evil (4x/day) +3/+10
Lay On Hands (7x/day), 5d6, cures fatigue (convenient for after rages), cursed, Distant Mercy
Studied Target +2
Rogue Talents: Shadow Strike (2), Ninja Trick (Style master) (4), Weapon Training: unarmed(6) Crippling Strike(10)
Slayer Talent: Blood Reader, Bleeding attack (6), Rogue Talent: Combat Trick (8), Rogue Talent: feat
Social Talents: Renown, Safehouse, Celebrity Discount, Social Grace: Spellcraft, Sense Motive, Incredible Renown
Vigilante Talents: Favored Maneuver: Grapple (+2), Sure Footed, Blind Spot, Shadow’s Speed, Shadow’s Sight
Bloodrage: 23 rounds/day (Used to fuel metamagic only)
Rage (+2 attack, damage, will saves, 20 temp HP, -2 AC): 23 rounds/day, Rage Powers: Scent, Energy Resistance (Cold) 5, Strength Stance (+3 CMB/CMD), Improved DR x2 (Becomes 6/-)
Divine Bond: Weapon Bond (10 minutes/level) +2, ranged only
Feats: L1: Combat Reflexes (Monk1), stunning fist (Monk1), Point Blank Shot (fight1), EWP Whip (Swashbuckler), Gunsmithing (Gun), Fey Foundling (ECL1), Escape Route (Cav), wild talent (soul), 2 weapon Fighting (Soul), Precise Shot (Pal)
L2 Dodge (Monk2), Weapon Focus Mindblade (Fight2), Blind Fight (Rog), Improved Grapple (Vig), Rapid Reload: (Musket/pistol) (Ran)
L3 Endurance (Ran), Extend Spell (ECL 3)
L4 Kraken Style (Rogue 4), Secret Stash Deed (Gun), Eschew Material (Blood), Quick draw (Fighter4)
L5 Improved Initiative (Brawler 5), Craft Wondrous Items (ECL 5), Master Craftsman (Aegis), Touch of Terror (Dread)
L6 Improved Trip (Monk), Clustered shots(fig6), Deadly Aim (ran), Quicken Spell (Blood), Weapon Focus: Musket (Rog)
L7 Telepathic Link(ECL7)
L8 Mobility (Fig8), Leaping Shot Deed(Gun8), Improved Blind Fight (Rogue)
L9 Dimensional Agility(ECL9), Dazing Spell (Blood), Coordinated Maneuvers (Cav), extra terrors (Dread)
L10 Improved Crit (Soulblade)(Fig10), Improved Crit (Musket/pistol) (Monk), Imp Precise Shot (Ran), Dimensional assault(Rogue 10)
Tactician (Swift) 3/day 8 rounds
Martial Flexibility (8/day), up to 3 feats at a time.
Greater Charmed Life 8/day
Mount Wild Shape 2/day
Class abilities:
Fast Movement (Bar), Fast Movement (Monk), Uncanny Dodge (Bar), Imp Uncanny Dodge (Bar), Danger Sense +3 (Bar) , evasion (Monk), Flurry of Blows (Monk), Maneuver Training (Grapple +1) (Monk), Still Mind, Purity of Body, Brawler’s Cunning, Strangle, Practiced Strangler, Trapfinding +2, Dual Indentity, Seemless Guise, Unshakeable, Startling Appearance, Accuracy, Deadly Range, Secret Identity, Avenger Finesse, Avengers Target (+1 on piercing), Scout’s Charge, Skirmisher, Swashbuckler & Gunslinger deeds, Musket/Pistol Training (dex2damage), Bravery +1 (Fig), Armor Training (Fig), Weapon Training: Firearms (Fig), Track (Ran), Wild Empathy (Cav), Swift Tracker (Ran), Cinderwalk (Ran), Bloodline (Elemental Water)(Blood), Blood Sanctuary (Blood), Aura of Courage (Pal), Beauty Unyielding (Pal), Cavalier’s Charge (Cav), Expert Trainer (Cav) Banner (Cav), Imp Evasion (Monk), Aura of Resolve (Pal), Advanced Weapon Training: Weapon Specialist., Shared Precision (Pal), Form, Shape, Throw mind blade (Soul), Quick Draw (soul), Invigorating suit (aegis), reconfigure (aegis), Augment suit (Aegis),

Familiar (Adept): Raccoon (Valet): (Note, the Raccoon shares his Craft Wondrous Items, Gunsmithing, Coordinated Maneuvers and Escape Route feats, I may stat it out later, but probably it should be wielding a small mucket (-4 non-proficient, -2 incorrect size, but +2 dex, +2 size, +10 bab means it could shoot with +8 touch attacks at 40’ range. Stand behind the gestalt to enable escape route. It can make its own bullets or craft magic items.)
Horse (Cav): Druid level 10 + Wild Shape 2/day

Adept Spells: L0: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Ghost Sound
L1: Bless, Comprehend Languages, Obscuring Mist, Protection from evil
L2: Invisibility, See Invisibility, Web
L3 Neutralize Poison
Ranger Spells: L1, Abundant Ammunition, Entangle, Longshot
L2: Barkskin, Wild Instinct
L3: Greater Longstrider
Paladin Spells: L1, Grace, Lesser Restoration, Liberating Command
L2: Carry Companion, Remove Paralysis
L3: Greater MW.
Bloodrager spells (3/day): Mage Armor, Shield, Corrosive Touch, Burning Hands*, Enlarge Person, Mount (Note: He can use 2 Bloodrage uses to Extend any of these, so he will usually start the day by Extending a Mage Armor for 20 hour duration)
L2 (2/day) Scorching Ray *, False Life, Resist Energy, Burning Gaze, Glitterdust
L3 (2/day) Paragon Surge, Fireball
Power Points/Day 25 (Aegis), 43 (Dread)
Dread:
Talents: Empathy, Missive
L1, Mindlink, Lingering Touch, Defensive Precognition
L2, Concealing Amorphia, Sustenance, True Terror,
L3, Dispatch, Mind Hunter, Ectoplasmic Form
L4 Personality Parasite


Changes: Soulblade makes unarmed strike redundant. Removed all feats that buffed unarmed strike. Snake style replaced with another style feat (it came from a talent) that buffs grapple. Most of the rest went to ranged combat feats. Dread made paladin fear immunity redundant, so Paladin took Divine Hunter, which adds another ranged feat (at the cost of limiting divine bond to ranged attacks). So, with Deadly Aim and Clustered Shots, DR is much less of an issue to the guns. Soulblade has a solid enhancement bonus, so should beat most DR. Its nice crit range will make regaining panache much easier. Redistributed stats based on the Aegis ability to drop big enhancement bonuses to Str and Dex. Removed Sense Motive (snake style no longer needs it) and replaced with Intimidate (Dread makes it good, synergy with swashbuckler who can intimidate as a swift in combat). Dread allows the addition of fort and will save or lose effects as swift actions to melee weapons.

So basically, just raised stats and added to melee/ranged ability. Pretty much eliminated any question of spending money on weapons. I think sneak attack would stack with Steal Essence, so thats a pretty brutal attack/self heal combo. Aegis could easily swap enhancement points spent on strength for other situational defenses. Blindsense especially presented itself. Aegis suit added +25 bonus to base speed (therefore also to climb and earth meld speed) and improved Wis allowed for level 3 ranger spell (Greater Longstrider), so now he goes REALLY fast.

[Abithrios]

Are you comparing your gestalt build to pathfinder tier one or 3.5 tier one?

Some of the campaign altering spells still exist, but a number of the individual tricks that 3.5 casters use to make everyone else redundant no longer work as well. For example, you can't just use DMM persistent spell to make short duration buffs last all day.

Pathfinder doesn't fix all of 3.5's problems, but it fixed some and has been improving on average over the years.

Also, I don't know enough to argue against aegis as tier four currently, but I suspect that it will go up in tier within a year or two considering how much DSP seems to like writing options for it.

[Gnaeus]

Are you comparing your gestalt build to pathfinder tier one or 3.5 tier one?

Some of the campaign altering spells still exist, but a number of the individual tricks that 3.5 casters use to make everyone else redundant no longer work as well. For example, you can't just use DMM persistent spell to make short duration buffs last all day.

Pathfinder doesn't fix all of 3.5's problems, but it fixed some and has been improving on average over the years.

Also, I don't know enough to argue against aegis as tier four currently, but I suspect that it will go up in tier within a year or two considering how much DSP seems to like writing options for it.

Either I guess. I mean it's only a thought exercise, use it how you want. I doubt it will be a common addition to many games.

A number are gone, but a number remain. A wizard can still blow all his slots the day before the adventure and planar bind half a dozen fighter substitutes. Teleport and company are still things. The wizard can now spend a trait on trapfinding, max 2 skills, one of which he would have maxed anyway, and use spells to boost skill checks or stats.

What they do in future I can't say. When I look at Aegis, I think he is a T4. He has one real power (hard to kill) and that's a very low T4 power. He can get some movement or sensory modes, but he doesn't seem far above the Monk, also fast moving and hard to kill. It seems like if you had a fight where his full bab and martial weapons didn't help, he could be shut out like a barbarian, and he doesn't have a lot more out of combat chops than a barbarian. Like, just hitting things with the wrong kinds of DR for example. Nothing wrong with that. It's a good class. It just isn't the most diverse in the world.

[Florian]

I doubt it will be a common addition to many games.

It simply serves a purpose by showing how real the glass ceiling between the tiers is and that next to no amount of "if I combine this with that, is it than T1?"-questions will ever serve a purpose, especially not in PF with its lower abuse level.