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Rerem115
2016-04-25, 07:37 PM
I was talking with some friends about how broken the Swashbuckler was. We started shooting the breeze, trying to find ways to fix it. Eventually, we decided to scrap the base and create a whole new class. The end result can best be described as a fighter-rogue hybrid that places heavy emphasis on dueling the opponent. Any thoughts regarding balance? Is this a viable class? If not, what would you change?


Duelist




Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features


1
2
Contested Duel, Unarmored Defense


2
2
Fighting Style


3
2
Archetype, Precision


4
2
Ability Score Improvement


5
3
Extra Attack


6
3
Archetype Ability


7
3
Duelist’s Grace


8
3
Ability Score Improvement


9
4
Archetype Ability


10
4
Watchful Fighter


11
4
Extra Attack(2)


12
4
Ability Score Improvement


13
5
Contested Duel improvement


14
5
Unflappable Duelist


15
5
Archetype Ability


16
5
Ability Score Improvement


17
6
Diplomatic Fighter


18
6
Grandmaster


19
6
Ability Score Improvement


20
6
Extra Attack (3)



Duelists are masters of one-on-one combat. They focus on quickly and elegantly dispatching one opponent at a time.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per duelist level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per Duelist level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: Choose a kind of gaming set or musical instrument
Saving Throws: Dexterity, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Athletics, Sleight of Hand, Insight, Persuasion, Performance and Perception

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
(a) a martial weapon and two daggers or (b) two martial weapons
(a) a gaming set or (b) a musical instrument
(a) an explorer’s pack or (b) a diplomat's pack
Traveler's clothes

Contested Duel
Using a bonus action, you challenge a creature into a duel. One creature that you can see within 30 feet and can understand at least one language you speak must make a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8+Proficiency+Charisma modifier). On a failed save, the creature is compelled by your challenge to fight you. For up to a minute, it has disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you, and is unable to move into a space that is more than 30 feet away from you.
The ability ends if you attack any other creature or if you cast a spell that targets a hostile creature other than the target, or move more than 30 feet away from the target.
Starting at 1st level, you can use this ability 1 time per short rest. At 13th level, this increases to 1+ your Charisma modifier (minimum 1) times per short rest

Unarmored Defense
Starting at first level, when you are wearing no armor, your AC is equal to 10+ your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier. You can use a shield and still gain this benefit.

Fighting Style
You adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. Choose one of the following options. You can’t take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.

Dueling
When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a 2+ bonus to damage rolls with that weapon
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the off-hand attack.
Mariner
As long as you are not wearing heavy armor or using a shield, you have a swimming speed and a climbing speed equal to your normal speed, and you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Hand-and-a-Half Fighter
Versatile weapons gain +1 to damage while wielded in one hand, and +1 to hit when wielded in two hands. In addition, versatile weapons can be used as though they had the finesse property.

Archetype
Starting at 3rd level, you choose a Duelist Archetype to follow. Choose the Challenger or the Wanderer, both detailed at the end of the class description. Your choice grants you features at 3rd level and again at 6th, 9th, and 15th levels.

Precision
When you target a foe with Contested Duel, you study their habits in order to accurately strike their weak points. For up to a minute, you add your proficiency modifier to damage rolls made on the target, so long as you have only one adjacent enemy and no adjacent allies, and are able to maintain concentration. (It is your decision to duel the target, so you may apply the damage even if the target makes the save and decides it doesn’t want to duel you.)

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 18th level in this class.

Duelist's Grace
You are capable of focusing all your attention on one enemy. When you have only one enemy adjacent to you and no adjacent allies, you gain advantage on all attack rolls and Acrobatics and Athletics checks. You may use your bonus action to disengage from an enemy.

Watchful Fighter
Your focus on the enemy helps you dodge their attacks. Starting at 10th level, when a creature hits you with an attack, you gain a +4 bonus to AC against all subsequent attacks made by that creature for the rest of the turn.

Unflappable Duelist
Starting at 14th level, you gain advantage on all saves to resist charm and fear.

Diplomatic Fighter
Your fighting skill inspires people to follow and listen to you. Starting at 17th level, your Charisma score increases by 1, up to a max of 20, and you gain proficiency with any two skills that are influenced by Charisma, or gain expertise in up to two Charisma based skills you are already proficient in.

Grandmaster
You are now considered to be one of the most perilous fighters in the land. Books have been written and songs have been sung of your exploits, and have finally made you into somewhat of a celebrity. Starting at 18th level, while you have only one adjacent enemy and no adjacent allies, you may add one half of your Charisma modifier, rounded down to damage.

Archetypes
At third level, you may choose between two archetypes: the Challenger, and the Wanderer. Each archetype offers bonuses upon joining, and more bonuses at 6th, 9th, and 15th level.

Challenger
Challengers are devoted to the idea of improving their fighting ability, which to them is an art form. They try to overwhelm their enemies with precise, meaningful strikes. They focus on accuracy, defense, and counterattacking their opponent.

Student of Fencing
You have studied the best fighters of history, and you learned some of their techniques. Starting at 3rd level, you gain 4 fencing points. Then number of fencing points increases to 6 at 6th, 8 at 9th, and 10 at 15th level. You can expend your fencing points to perform the following maneuvers, but you cannot expend more than three per round. You may choose three known maneuvers at 3rd level, and 2 more at 6th, 9th, and one more at 15th level. Note that while some of these maneuvers are similar to those of a battle master or share the same name, they vary from those maneuvers in notable ways. You regain all spent fencing points after a short or long rest.
Note: For maneuvers that require a saving throw, the DC is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier unless stated otherwise.

Incapacitating Strike: When attempting to attack a creature, you may spend two fencing points in order to perform an incapacitating strike. If your attack is successful, choose one of the following actions: ear slap (deafen), glinting blade (blind), or foot stomp (movement speed is reduced to zero). The enemy may make a Constitution save to avoid the effects. Status effects from this maneuver last a single round and are only effective if the target is not immune to critical hits and has the appropriate body parts.
Disarm: Instead of taking an Attack action, you may spend 1 fencing point in an attempt to disarm your target. The target must make a Dexterity save. On a failed save, an item of your choice carried by the target lands on a random, unoccupied space within 5 feet of the target.
Evasive Footwork: When you move, you can expend one fencing point, gaining +3 to your AC until you stop moving.
Feint: You can spend two fencing points and use a bonus action on your turn to feint, choosing one creature within 5 feet of you as your target. You have advantage on the next roll you make against that creature with your next Attack action
Heartseeker: Before making an attack against your opponent, you may spend two fencing points to aim your blade for the target's most vital area, allowing you to critically strike on an 18-20.
Lunge: You may spend one fencing point to move up to 5' towards an enemy as part of your Attack action.
Parry: When another creature damages you with a melee attack, you can spend one fencing point to use your reaction to reduce the damage by the total of 1d6+ your Dexterity modifier.
Riposte: When a creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction and spend one fencing point to make a melee weapon attack against the creature. If you hit, you may add another damage die to the damage roll.

Defensive Studies
At 6th level, you get Evasion. You can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or an ice storm spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Dazzling Flourish
Your have attained a level of skill with your weapon that allows you baffle your foes even if you make mistakes. At 9th level, if you take an Attack action and miss any of your attacks, you may regain one fencing point. You may use this ability once per short rest.

Brilliant Riposte
At 15th level, when successfully using the parry or riposte maneuvers, you may immediately make an additional attack against the attacker as a part of your reaction. You can use a fencing point to gain an additional reaction.


Wanderer
Wanderers travel the land in search of worthy opponents. They are hardy, devastating fighters that focus on overpowering their enemies with their speed and devastating attacks.

Agile Warrior
Your travels have honed your agility. Starting at 3rd level, you gain 10 additional feet of movement speed and ignore non-magical difficult terrain. Your experiences also give you proficiency in either Survival or Nature (pick one).

Wanderer’s Fervor
Your passion for battle grants you the strength to hit harder. Starting at 6th level, when you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon you are wielding, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2.

Decisive Charge
You have learned that the safest way to win fights is to end them before they can start. Starting at 9th level, when you roll initiative, you gain a special turn that takes place before other creatures can act. On this turn, you can use your action to Attack and use Contested Duel. If more than one creature in an encounter has a feature that allows them to take a bonus turn when they roll initiative, they all act first in order of initiative, then the regular initiative order begins. If you would normally be surprised at the start of an encounter, you are not surprised but you do not gain this extra turn.

Relentless Assault
Starting at 15th level, you have the ability to ensure that your attacks count. If you miss with an attack during your turn, you can immediately make an additional attack. You can gain up to one additional attack during your turn with this ability. You can use this ability up to 5 times per long rest.

JeffreyGator
2016-04-27, 06:00 PM
Except for a couple of extra abilities the challenger feels a lot like a BM fighter but weakened.

I love the idea of unarmored defense with a charisma option but think it is pretty powerful for level 1. Also this doesn't exclude a shield.

hand a half fighter doesn't feel duelist to me - it feels like iajitsu with a katana which could be a variant of dueling

I would move 2 skills to creation and expertise much sooner than level 17 - probably level 3. Also include intimidation, acrobatics.

Swap the level 18 and 20 abilities to be more consistent with other classes.

N810
2016-04-28, 11:12 AM
I rather like it as a whole, One thing I noticed...

Disarm: Instead of taking an Attack action, you may spend 1 fencing point in an attempt to disarm your target. The target must make a Dexterity save. On a failed save, an item of your choice carried by the target lands on a random, unoccupied space within 5 feet of the target.

What's is the DC of save your opponent has to make ?

Rerem115
2016-04-29, 05:02 AM
@JeffreyGator: Looking at it now, I see what you mean as a weakened BM. Problem is, I couldn't see how to improve it without straight out making it a BM fighter and/or breaking the DPR.

I felt unarmored defense was fair; all other classes that get a variant of it get it at first level. As for the shields, barbarians get to add shield bonuses, and in order to get it as a duelist you either need to multiclass or take two feats. If I playtest it and it's utterly broken, I probably will change it, though.

For the Hand-and-a-Half fighting style, that's exactly what I was going for! :smallbiggrin:

What you said about the high level stuff makes sense; I could play around with it until it works.

@N810: It says in the ability description what the DC's on the saving throws are; 8+Proficiency+Charisma mod

PotatoGolem
2016-04-30, 12:38 AM
One grammar point and one real critique:

1) as of right now you lose Unarmored Defense past level 1, since it requires you to be level one.

2) giving this the fighter capstone early seems super iffy. Especially since it also functionally gets the barbarian capstone, arguably the best in the game

Rerem115
2016-04-30, 01:40 AM
If you've got a better idea for a capstone, please feel free to post one. I was honestly at a loss as to what the capstone (formerly level 18) ability should be, and I just cribbed an equivalent ability from a similar class on a homebrew wiki. As it is now, I consider it a placeholder more than anything else.

*Edit* I moved Grandmaster back to 18, and now it adds Charisma modifier to damage when dueling (no adjacent allies, one adjacent enemy).

Final Hyena
2016-04-30, 05:05 AM
Contested Duel
Using a bonus action, you challenge a creature into a duel. One creature that you can see within 30 feet and can understand at least one language you speak must make a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8+Proficiency+Charisma modifier). On a failed save, the creature is compelled by your challenge to fight you. For up to a minute, it has disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you, and is unable to move into a space that is more than 30 feet away from you.
The ability ends if you attack any other creature or if you cast a spell that targets a hostile creature other than the target.
Starting at 1st level, you can use this ability 1 time per short rest. At 13th level, this increases to 1+ your Charisma modifier (minimum 1) times per short rest
What about if you can't stay within 30 feet safely. Lets say the Duellist jumps off an airship. Is the target stuck in place for the minute?


Unarmored Defense
Starting at first level, when you are wearing no armor, your AC is equal to 10+ your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier.
This doesn't stop shields, which is interesting, to be fair you need to level dip or take a two feats for it.


I felt unarmored defense was fair; all other classes that get a variant of it get it at first level. As for the shields, barbarians get to add shield bonuses, and in order to get it as a duelist you either need to multiclass or take two feats. If I playtest it and it's utterly broken, I probably will change it, though.
The Barbarian has a bit more of an issue maxing out dex and con when he needs str to hit, a Duellist on the other hand has that dex overlap. Not saying it's unfair after all barb has ac/hp overlap. Just something to consider.

Fighting Style is put after a 3rd level feature even though it's listed as a second level in the above table.


Duelist's Grace
You are capable of focusing all your attention on one enemy. When you have only one enemy adjacent to you and no adjacent allies, you gain advantage on all attack rolls and skill checks. You may use your bonus action to disengage from an enemy.
This is very strong, might I suggest that it only works if both you and and an adjacent enemy have no other adjacent creatures. Also the skill checks should likely be limited to athletics/acrobatics (having an enemy next to you shouldn't make you a better doctor). You might want to limit the bonus disengage to only work if adjacent to a single enemy.


You may choose three known maneuvers at 3rd level, and 2 more at 6th, 9th, and 15th level.
A total of 9 manoeuvres known, of which there are only 8.


Brilliant Riposte
At 15th level, when successfully using the parry or riposte maneuvers, you may immediately make an additional attack against the attacker as a part of your reaction. You can use a fencing point to gain an additional reaction.
This is where you laugh at me for pointing out that you made a feature which forces you to pick certain abilities, even though by this point you know them all, along with that mystery 9th manoeuvre.

Wanderer is weaker until the huge power spike at level 9.

Edit;

*Edit* I moved Grandmaster back to 18, and now it adds Charisma modifier to damage when dueling (no adjacent allies, one adjacent enemy).


Grandmaster
You are now considered to be one of the most perilous fighters in the land. Books have been written and songs have been sung of your exploits, and have finally made you into somewhat of a celebrity. Starting at 18th level, while you have only one adjacent enemy and no adjacent allies, you may add your Charisma modifier to damage.

Lets compare level 20 at this point you easily have +5 dex/cha so, along with manoeuvres being ignored for ease;
d10 (weapon) + 1 (style) + 5 (dex) +5 (cha) +6 (precision) =22.5
Or with complications = 11.5
3 attacks = 67.5
with complications = 34.5

a swoard & board (chosen to keep up in ac);
d8 (weapon) + 2 (style) + 5 damage = 11.5
4 attacks = 46

I feel the single target damage of the Duellist is a smidgen high, if it was only half charisma to damage then it would change to 58.5 which balances out a smidgen more.

Rerem115
2016-04-30, 01:27 PM
@Final Hyena: Thanks for pointing out what I missed. Most of what you brought up was either me missing things while I was editing or not thinking enough like a munchkin :smalltongue:. I fixed the Contested Duel issue and made all the skills go in order. I changed Duelist's Grace to only benefit Athletics and Acrobatics checks, but I left in the disengage; what I had in mind was that the ability was used to weave through a crowd in order to get to the target. I didn't want to change how the advantage worked, mostly because boss monsters exist. Again, my DM has said something about playtesting the class, and if that winds up too broken, I could change it.

As for the maneuvers, that issue was that there used to be 9, but I trimmed it down to 8 and forgot to edit the progression :smalltongue:. Also, I wasn't trying to laugh at anybody with the 15th level ability. You'll be able to use it since you're guaranteed to know the relevant maneuvers at that point.

For Grandmaster, would reducing the bonus to one half of the Charisma Modifier be appropriate. or would a different ability altogether work better?

Final Hyena
2016-04-30, 01:50 PM
I didn't want to change how the advantage worked, mostly because boss monsters exist.
I expect that as written Duelist's Grace will give advantage most of the time.



As for the maneuvers, that issue was that there used to be 9, but I trimmed it down to 8 and forgot to edit the progression :smalltongue:.
The battle master learns 9/16 manoeuvres. That's the point of multiple choice powers you have to pick you can't get them all.


Also, I wasn't trying to laugh at anybody with the 15th level ability. You'll be able to use it since you're guaranteed to know the relevant maneuvers at that point.
Terrible humour :(
Anyway as suggested above I prefer picked abilities to be finite (you can't get them all) which is why I dislike the idea of a later ability requiring 1/2 of them.


For Grandmaster, would reducing the bonus to one half of the Charisma Modifier be appropriate. or would a different ability altogether work better?
I think half works reasonably well.