Does a Dragonbone bow grant free proficiency?

[thoroughlyS]

Dragonbone Bow: A bow carved from a single bone of a dragon (a thigh bone or similarly large bone) displays superior tensile strength and power. Such a bow is considered a composite bow (short or long) with a strength rating set by the crafter. In addition, the bow’s range increment is 20 feet longer than normal for the bow’s type (90 feet for a composite shortbow or 130 feet for a composite longbow).
Dragoncraft Price: as composite bow +100 gp; Dragon Part: dragon bone; Skill: Craft (bowyer); Weight: 3 lb.
Unlike Dragoncraft Armor or Dragonfang Weapons below, this weapon property does not specify what types of bows it can be applied to, instead stating that "Such a bow is considered a composite bow(short or long) with a strength rating set by the crafter." RAW does this mean this can be applied to any bow? If so, what does "considered" entail? If I apply this property to a Greatbow (exotic weapon from v3.5 Complete Warrior p.154) does this mean it is "considered" a composite longbow for the purposes of proficiency? Going one step further, because it says "considered a composite bow(short or long)" can I consider it a composite shortbow at the same time?


Dragoncraft Armor or Shield:Dragoncraft armor and shields are masterwork versions of armor and shields crafted from a dragon’s hide that also grant energy resistance. A suit of dragoncraft armor or a dragoncraft shield grants the wearer resistance 5 against a specific type of energy, as appropriate to the dragon (acid for black, copper, or green; cold for silver or white; electricity for blue or bronze; fire for brass, gold, or red). This resistance is treated as an extraordinary (and thus nonmagical) feature of the armor. It doesn’t stack with any other energy resistance (of the same type) possessed by the character.In addition, dragoncraft armor is treated as one category lighter for purposes of movement and other determinations.Heavy dragoncraft armors are treated as medium, and medium and light armors are treated as light. Armor check penalties are reduced by 2 (including the 1-point reduction for masterwork armor or shield). Dragoncraft armor has the normal maximum Dexterity bonus. Dragoncraft armor can be hide armor, scale mail, half-plate, or full plate armor. Dragoncraft shields can be light or heavy.
Dragoncraft Price: 3,000 gp (light armor), 6,000 gp (medium armor), 11,000 gp (heavy armor); Dragon Part: dragon hide;Skill: Craft (armorsmithing); Weight: same as ordinary armor or shield.
Dragonfang Weapon:Dragonfang weapons are masterwork weapons crafted from the claws and teeth of a dragon. In addition to the +1 nonmagical enhancement bonus on attack rolls granted by its masterwork quality, a dragonfang weapon deals 1 point of energy damage on each successful hit. The type of energy is the same as that of the dragon’s breath weapon. If a dragon doesn’t have a breath weapon that deals acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage,dragonfang weapons made from its remains do not deal any extra damage. This damage is treated as an extraordinary(and thus nonmagical) feature of the weapon. It doesn’t stack with any other energy damage (of the same type) dealt by the weapon.A single tooth or claw from a dragon can be crafted into a light weapon of the same size category as the dragon, a one-handed weapon of one size category smaller, or a two-handed weapon of two size categories smaller. A single dragon’s body can provide enough material for up to twelve weapons.
Only piercing and slashing weapons may be created as dragonfang weapons.
Dragoncraft Price: 300 gp; Dragon Part: dragon tooth or claw;Skill: Craft (weaponsmithing); Weight: 2 lb.

[Belzyk]

Unlike Dragoncraft Armor or Dragonfang Weapons below, this weapon property does not specify what types of bows it can be applied to, instead stating that "Such a bow is considered a composite bow(short or long) with a strength rating set by the crafter." RAW does this mean this can be applied to any bow? If so, what does "considered" entail? If I apply this property to a Greatbow (exotic weapon from v3.5 Complete Warrior p.154) does this mean it is "considered" a composite longbow for the purposes of proficiency? Going one step further, because it says "considered a composite bow(short or long)" can I consider it a composite shortbow at the same time?



Its a composite longbow and needs the corresponding weapon proficincies

[ATHATH]

Yes, but it will likely have the same stats as a short or composite (likely determined at the time of crafting) longbow.

[thoroughlyS]

Its a composite longbow and needs the corresponding weapon proficincies
So would my hypothetical Dragonbone Greatbow deal 1d10 damage and have a 150 ft. range increment, or would it deal 1d8 damage with an increment of 130 ft.? Could it be "considered" a composite shortbow instead?

Yes, but it will likely have the same stats as a short or composite (likely determined at the time of crafting) longbow.
So, in your opinion, whoever crafts the weapon determines which weapon it is "considered"? And it would have the damage and range of the weapon it is "considered"?

[Belzyk]

So would my hypothetical Dragonbone Greatbow deal 1d10 damage and have a 150 ft. range increment, or would it deal 1d8 damage with an increment of 130 ft.? Could it be "considered" a composite shortbow instead?

So, in your opinion, whoever crafts the weapon determines which weapon it is "considered"? And it would have the damage and range of the weapon it is "considered"?

Great bow is still classified as a Longbow in arms and equipment so it's still a longbow and for weapon proficincies. But it would do the greatbow damage

[ATHATH]

So would my hypothetical Dragonbone Greatbow deal 1d10 damage and have a 150 ft. range increment, or would it deal 1d8 damage with an increment of 130 ft.? Could it be "considered" a composite shortbow instead?

So, in your opinion, whoever crafts the weapon determines which weapon it is "considered"? And it would have the damage and range of the weapon it is "considered"?
Yes. If which type of weapon the bow was considered to be wasn't determined when it was created, it would have weird alternating or conflicting stats. Then again, it could be that the bow could have the ability to be used as either type of bow by the wielder. To use a non-D&D example, a gun-sword could be used as either a gun or a sword, depending on how the wielder used it, and the wielder could spontaneously decide to start using it differently.

Due to the lack of specifically stated ways that the Dragonbow weapon is considered that type of bow, it's reasonable to assume that the "considered" part of the quote applies to everything about the bow.

Keep in mind that this is mostly my gut instinct, and that there may be some different, equally valid interpretations.

[thoroughlyS]

Great bow is still classified as a Longbow in arms and equipment so it's still a longbow and for weapon proficincies. But it would do the greatbow damage
Greatbows are from Complete Warrior, and aren't mentioned in the Arms & Equipment Guide. Furthermore, the Greatbow's entry doesn't mention Longbows.

Greatbow: You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. A greatbow sized for a Medium character is 6 feet or more in length when strung. A greatbow is too unwieldy to use while mounted. Like other bows, if you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when using a greatbow. If you have a bonus for high Strength, you can apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite greatbow (see below) but not a regular greatbow.
Greatbow, Composite: You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. A composite greatbow is too unwieldy to use while mounted. A composite greatbow sized for a Medium character is 6 feet or more in length when strung. Composite greatbows follow all of the normal rules for composite bows, including strength ratings. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 200 gp to the cost.

[Belzyk]

Greatbows are from Complete Warrior, and aren't mentioned in the Arms & Equipment Guide. Furthermore, the Greatbow's entry doesn't mention Longbows.

My bad I was thinking of mighty lol and huh after double checking the Longbow stuff is from some homebrewed version of the great bow that changed it to a martial weapon instead of exotic I'm sorry for my missinformation

[DrMotives]

I think your dragonbone greatbow will count as a composite greatbow, with the normal enhancements from the dragonbone bow rules. The reason it says shortbow or longbow & not greatbow is simply that most non-core books are written to assume you don't have any other non-core books. Dragon Magic would be a notable exception. But there's no need or sense into forcing the bow into a core bow just because. That being said, it does seem clear that crossbows are not supposed to able to be dragonbone bows, for whatever reason.

[thoroughlyS]

I think your dragonbone greatbow will count as a composite greatbow, with the normal enhancements from the dragonbone bow rules. The reason it says shortbow or longbow & not greatbow is simply that most non-core books are written to assume you don't have any other non-core books. Dragon Magic would be a notable exception. But there's no need or sense into forcing the bow into a core bow just because.
That's obvious RAI. I'm forcing it because that would allow the use of a greatbow without requiring the proficiency feat.

That being said, it does seem clear that crossbows are not supposed to able to be dragonbone bows, for whatever reason.That's because crossbows can't be composite.

[DarkSoul]

Dragonbone Bow: A bow carved from a single bone of a dragon (a thigh bone or similarly large bone) displays superior tensile strength and power. Such a bow is considered a composite bow (short or long) with a strength rating set by the crafter. In addition, the bow’s range increment is 20 feet longer than normal for the bow’s type (90 feet for a composite shortbow or 130 feet for a composite longbow).
Dragoncraft Price: as composite bow +100 gp; Dragon Part: dragon bone; Skill: Craft (bowyer); Weight: 3 lb.Edited to clarify by crossing out example text.

Dragonbone is a property of a bow, just like darkwood or elvencraft. When you create a dragonbone bow, you're deciding what kind of bow it is when you craft it. There's no "this longbow is considered a shortbow" nonsense, so there's no "forcing" anything because a dragonbone longbow is exactly that. It's not a dragonbone greatbow that's "considered" a longbow or shortbow. A dragonbone greatbow functions in all ways as a composite greatbow with +20' on the range increment and costs an extra 100 gold for the initial cost. The same goes for all other dragonbone bows.

[daremetoidareyo]

Edited to clarify by crossing out example text.

Dragonbone is a property of a bow, just like darkwood or elvencraft. When you create a dragonbone bow, you're deciding what kind of bow it is when you craft it. There's no "this longbow is considered a shortbow" nonsense, so there's no "forcing" anything because a dragonbone longbow is exactly that. It's not a dragonbone greatbow that's "considered" a longbow or shortbow. A dragonbone greatbow functions in all ways as a composite greatbow with +20' on the range increment and costs an extra 100 gold for the initial cost. The same goes for all other dragonbone bows.

I'm with DarkSoul on their analysis. Dragonbone is a weapon property that can be applied to any bow. Now, it is murky territory for crossbows. Which are a type of bow, but not in D&D parlance. It doesn't grant weapon proficiency with a great bow, but you can make other bows that are not typically capable of being composite, composite. So, let's check out some of the weird non-crossbow bows that this can apply to.


Bone Bow from frostburn
Cost: 250 gp
Damage (s): 1d8 Damage (m): 1d10
Critical: x3
Range: 120 ft
This powerful and oversized bow is designed to fire exceptionally large arrows specially made for it. Made of the bones and sinews of huge animals such as woolly mammoths and dire rhinoceroses, these bows were designed by primitive cultures expressly for the hunting of huge creatures that require a lot of damage to take down. A bone bow functions as a composite longbow with regard to applying the user’s Strength bonus to damage done with arrows shot from it. The bow has a long, thick spike protruding from both ends; this spike is used to brace against a solid object (either the ground or an overhanging protrusion or ceiling) to aid in pulling the bow’s string. A character may use a bone bow as a martial weapon, but doing so imparts a –4 penalty on attack rolls, and firing an arrow from the bow requires a full round action. For purposes of feats such as Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization, a bone bow is treated as if it were a longbow; thus if you have Weapon Focus (longbow), that feat applies to bone bows as well.
My thoughts: What you lose in greatbow range (greatbow has 10 more feet of range) you make up for with a larger damage die. This is an ok option. Your longbow feats apply to this bow, so that's ok too. But it just gets weirder from here.

FOOTBOW
- RACES OF THE WILD (3.5) Exotic Ranged Weapon
Cost: 150 gp Damage (s): 1d6 Damage (m): 1d8 Critical: x3 Range: 110 ft
This exotic weapon resembles a composite long bow but is designed to be used in flight, with the archer holding the bow in her feet and drawing it with one or both hands. Like a composite longbow all footbows are made with a particular strength rating. If a character’s Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the footbow, she can’t effectively use it, so she takes a –2 penalty on attacks with it. The default footbow requires a Strength bonus of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A footbow can be made with a high strength rating just as a composite longbow can; each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. The wielder of a footbow can choose to use both hands to draw it back; in this case she may add 1-1/2 her Strength bonus to damage (up to a maximum of 1-1/2 the strength rating of the bow), as long as she is strong enough to use it without penalty. A footbow can be used on the ground, but the archer must be prone to do so and takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. For raptorans, the footbow is a martial weapon rather than an exotic weapon.
Notes: Look at that text! It doesn't say that a footbow is a composite bow. It doesn't even say it acts as a composite bow like the bone bow does. It is just like a composite bow...so your composite bonus from dragonbone should stack!!! If you have an 18 strength and can eat the -4 if you don't have wings, you can use both hands to get +6 damage from your footbow strength rating, plus another +4 from your composite (granted by dragonbone) footbow strength rating. +10 to damage per arrow??? Sign me up, that's almost tolerable. Throw that on a raptoran scout. Mwah!

GREATBOW
- COMPLETE WARRIOR (3.5) Exotic Ranged Weapon
Cost: 150 gp Damage (s): 1d8 Damage (m): 1d10 Critical: x3 Range: 120 ft
You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. A greatbow sized for a Medium character is 6 feet or more in length when strung. A greatbow is too unwieldy to use while mounted. Like other bows, if you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when using a greatbow. If you have a bonus for high Strength, you can apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite greatbow (see below) but not a regular greatbow.
Note: Not really worth the exotic weapon proficiency feat.

GREATBOW, COMPOSITE
- COMPLETE WARRIOR (3.5) Exotic Ranged Weapon
Cost: 200 gp Damage (s): 1d8 Damage (m): 1d10 Critical: x3 Range: 130 ft
You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. A composite greatbow is too unwieldy to use while mounted. A composite greatbow sized for a Medium character is 6 feet or more in length when strung. Composite greatbows follow all of the normal rules for composite bows, including strength ratings. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 200 gp to the cost.
Note: You got ten more feet of range compared to the bone bow.

LONGBOW, ELVENCRAFT
- RACES OF THE WILD (3.5) Simple Two-Handed Melee Weapon
Cost: +300 gp Damage (s): 1d4/1d4 Damage (m): 1d6/1d6 Critical: x2
Type: B
One of the biggest problems facing any archer is deciding what to do when a foe gets within melee reach. Does one stand fast and take the consequences (which can prove painful if not deadly), fall back (not always practical), or drop the bow and draw a melee weapon (inconvenient at best). Elf bowyers have made the choice somewhat less difficult by crafting bows that can stand up to melee combat. Thanks to elven ingenuity, these weapons work just as well as melee weapons as they do as ranged weapons. An elvencraft bow is thicker and heavier than a normal bow. An elvencraft shortbow functions as a club when wielded as a melee weapon. An elvencraft longbow functions as a quarterstaff when wielded as a melee weapon. The wielder incurs no penalty on attack rolls when using an elvencraft bow as a melee weapon. A character wielding an elvencraft bow can freely interchange melee and ranged attacks during the same round. When wielding an elvencraft bow, the user threatens the squares around him no matter how he last used the weapon. Magical enhancements to an elvencraft bow only affect its use as a bow. Enhancements to the melee capabilities of the weapon must be added separately. An elvencraft bow costs 300 gp more than a normal bow.
Note: Always elvencraft your bows.

LUTE-BOW
- CITYSCAPE (3.5) Martial Ranged Weapon
Cost: 250 gp Damage (s): 1d4 Damage (m): 1d6 Critical: x3 Range: 40 ft Weight: 5 lb Type: P
Ammo: Arrow
Search DC: 30
The upper layer of wood to which the strings are attached can be rotated with a standard action, so that the strings now lie perpendicular to the lute itself. The wood and the strings are treated to offer extra strength and resistance, allowing them to flex like a bow. Although it is held horizontally, like a crossbow, it is a hand-fired weapon, so it resembles a shortbow in usage. DC 30 to find.
Note: This is my absolute favorite Dragonbone bow. Your lute becomes a composite shortbow.

Fiddle and Bow
Song and silence 3.0
Fiddle: An ancestor of the modern violin, the fiddle is a small, portable, stringed instrument with a body shaped rather like an hourglass. Four or five strings made of gut or sinew stretch across the body, anchored by pegs at the end of a long, thin neck. A separate piece, called the bow, is a long, thin piece of wood strung with fine strands of animal hair. Fiddles vary in length between 2 feet (for Medium-size fiddlers) and 18 inches (for Small fiddlers). To play the fiddle, the musician holds it horizontally, typically with the base tucked under his or her chin, and draws the bow back and forth across the strings.
The fiddle is popular among bards who prefer lively dance music (reels or jigs) over serene but detached “pure” music. Though it is welcome almost anywhere, the fiddle is the favorite instrument of kobolds, whose clever hands mastered its fingerings ages ago. (They insist that they invented the fiddle, but other races find that claim dubious.) Kobold minstrels and halfling bards typically caper about while playing, showing their audience an example of the lively dancing their music encourages. Musicians of other races usually sit or stand to play the fiddle.
Bardic Music: Like the other two prime bardic instruments, the lute and the lap-harp, the fiddle enables the performer to maintain one bardic music or virtuoso performance effect while initiating another. Thus, a bard could maintain a countersong effect on one listener while inspiring courage in others.
Note: RAW vs RAI. Remember, you can add a bow blade to the fiddle bow...technically, it becomes a weapon. If the fiddle's "bow" is dragonbone, it is treated as a composite. It's range becomes 20 higher. And weirdly enough, You can apply your strength score to your fiddle bow, for attacks. I imagine you would fire tiny arrows, but with a strength bonus!! Plus that sweet multiple songs bardic ability. I don't know why your bard has a high strength score, but maybe you're sized large or something. The plus side is that the bow is just accouterment, you can initiate a second bardic performance pizzocotto style.

BOW, ELVEN DOUBLE
- ARMS AND EQUIPMENT GUIDE (3.0) Exotic Ranged Weapon
Cost: 1000 gp Damage (s): 1d6 Damage (m): 1d8 Critical: x3 Range: 100 ft Weight: 3 lb Type: P
Ammo: Arrow
This double-stringed longbow can be used as a normal longbow by anyone proficient in that weapon.
Characters with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (elven double bow) can use the bow to fire two arrows at once. Knocking an arrow on the second string requires a move equivalent action. Once the wielder has taken an action to load the second string, his next attack is a double shot that launches both arrows simultaneously at the same target. The wielder makes one attack roll at a –2 penalty to determine whether or not both arrows strike the target. If the attack is successful, both arrows deal normal damage. If the attack is a critical hit, only one arrow deals extra damage, and extra sneak attack damage is applied only once.
Note: There isn't a on the books way to make a double bow composite, except if you use dragonbone property! This is nice in that you can take a -2 to hit, stack that with manyshot, and threefold mask of chimera, travel devotion, or a belt of battle, And just be a gust of arrowy wind, all the arrows of which gain your strength bonus. I just wish the elves made a double foot bow...

BOW, YUAN-TI SERPENT
- SECRETS OF XENDRIK (3.5) Exotic Ranged Weapon
Exotic Two-Handed Melee Weapon [Double]
Cost: 150 gp
Damage (s): 1d4 (S)/1d6 (P) Damage (m): 1d6 (S)/1d8 (P) Critical: 19-20/x2 (S)/x3 (P) Range: 0 ft (S)/80 ft (P) Weight: 2 lb
Type: S (Melee) or P (Ranged) Ammo: Arrow
Made from a long, curving piece of exotic wood, this bow is carved in the likeness of a serpent whose tail ends in a short metal blade. You can use a yuan-ti serpent bow either to make ranged attack with arrows or melee attacks with the serpent blade. When wielding a yuan-ti serpent bow, you can freely interchange melee and ranged attacks during the same round. You threaten the squares within your reach no matter how you last used the weapon. A yuan-ti serpent bow is treated like a double weapon for the purpose of determining the cost of a masterwork version and enhancements. Weapon special abilities and enhancements bonuses for the bow portion of the weapon apply only to ranged attacks made with the serpent bow, not attacks made with the blade portion of the weapon. Special abilities and enhancement bonuses for the blade portion apply only to melee attacks.
Notes: This is a crappy elvencraft composite longbow. But, the free mixing and matching might be nice if you manage to make this a monk weapon somehow.