Archer Build Inquiry [PF]

[SilentNight]

Hey all, so I'm thinking about build directions for a divine hunter paladin I've just rolled up. I'd like her to be a super effective, versatile archer. In that vein, I see two options.

Option one is to go to the archer fighter archetype at level 3 for the rest of the campaign, picking up all the cool ranged maneuver options that gives you and generally turning enemies of the church into pincushions.

Option two was my original idea which was to go weapon master (bow) from levels 3-6 for the early weapon training, then a level of sorcerer into arcane archer to make use of her charisma score and get access to a bunch of buffs and utilities. Should I go that route I'd also like to find some way to make all of the arcane archer's standard action cover-negating shot abilities useful (i.e. making a single arrow very critical). So far my only ideas are spell-storing arrows (only really good with no-save spells) or poison.

Any suggestions? Am I giving up too much for the spell casting?

[Geddy2112]

Divine hunter is an okay build to drop after a couple of levels, as it replaces a lot of the higher level pally goodies with less good and party specific abilities. Get cha to saves and go elsewhere.

But why fighter? Three ranks in weapon master for some bonus feats and....+1 to attack and damage with a bow. The 3rd level abilities of archer are nothing to write home about, disarm being the best. Archery builds do love feats-point blank shot, rapid shot, improved precise shot, deadly aim, clustered shots, and full BAB from the fighter is nice. You could go ranger for skills, wild empathy, maybe a favored enemy(or replace any of those with an archtype) and a second level for a bonus combat feat.

What is your race/stats? Anything you wanna do besides archery?

If you want arcane archer, you can go sorcerer and give up your armor. If you want more skills, keeping your light armor, but a few less spells, a dip in bard/magus will also qualify you for the class. Magus being less preferable as it is int based. Either way, don't screw around in fighter and just get straight to AA, even if it means more ranks in pally to qualify for the BAB. You might want improved critical as a bonus feat for your arrows to proc more bursts from AA. Bard won't have many spells to benefit from imbue arrow, magus a few more, but both keep armor and some other class goodies. Sorcerer will progress into better and more powerful spells, but you will have to give up better armor. You can always get a haramaki and mithral/darkwood buckler, so it is not the end of the world.

[SilentNight]

Divine hunter is an okay build to drop after a couple of levels, as it replaces a lot of the higher level pally goodies with less good and party specific abilities. Get cha to saves and go elsewhere.

But why fighter? Three ranks in weapon master for some bonus feats and....+1 to attack and damage with a bow. The 3rd level abilities of archer are nothing to write home about, disarm being the best. Archery builds do love feats-point blank shot, rapid shot, improved precise shot, deadly aim, clustered shots, and full BAB from the fighter is nice. You could go ranger for skills, wild empathy, maybe a favored enemy(or replace any of those with an archtype) and a second level for a bonus combat feat.

What is your race/stats? Anything you wanna do besides archery?

If you want arcane archer, you can go sorcerer and give up your armor. If you want more skills, keeping your light armor, but a few less spells, a dip in bard/magus will also qualify you for the class. Magus being less preferable as it is int based. Either way, don't screw around in fighter and just get straight to AA, even if it means more ranks in pally to qualify for the BAB. You might want improved critical as a bonus feat for your arrows to proc more bursts from AA. Bard won't have many spells to benefit from imbue arrow, magus a few more, but both keep armor and some other class goodies. Sorcerer will progress into better and more powerful spells, but you will have to give up better armor. You can always get a haramaki and mithral/darkwood buckler, so it is not the end of the world.

Current stats: 14 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 7 Wis, 15 Cha. I am planning on dumping Divine Hunter after I get divine grace, and was going to get the rest of my AA BAB from fighter mostly for the feats. Although ranger would be a nice choice too for skills, hadn't thought about it. The wis dump stat makes it unviable in the long term martial path though.

As far as bard vs. sorcerer, I feel like the sorcerer has more complementary spells (and gets more of them than the bard). By the time I'd be using them full time I feel as if the lack of armor can be mitigated via mage armor, mirror image, levitate etc to avoid being attacked in the first place, and relying on a rod of still spell for the first couple of levels where I wouldn't have many spells per day anyway.

[Florian]

For what you intend to do, I think that going Magus (Eldritch Archer) or (Myrmidach) will actually provide the better performance.

Edit: Do the math. Sorcerer1/Arcane Archer 1+ will at best end up with the ability to cast 4th level spells and an abysmal CL of 8th at Arcane Archer 10 (you won´t even reach the cap on a Fireball for imbuing purposes).

[Geddy2112]

Current stats: 14 Str, 18 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 7 Wis, 15 Cha. I am planning on dumping Divine Hunter after I get divine grace, and was going to get the rest of my AA BAB from fighter mostly for the feats. Although ranger would be a nice choice too for skills, hadn't thought about it. The wis dump stat makes it unviable in the long term martial path though.

As far as bard vs. sorcerer, I feel like the sorcerer has more complementary spells (and gets more of them than the bard). By the time I'd be using them full time I feel as if the lack of armor can be mitigated via mage armor, mirror image, levitate etc to avoid being attacked in the first place, and relying on a rod of still spell for the first couple of levels where I wouldn't have many spells per day anyway.

Getting bonus feats from fighter is always nice, and I agree that more than 3 ranks in a class with weak will saves is a bit too dangerous. Likewise, you won't be casting ranger spells so no need for 4th level ranger. If you do go ranger, pick up the trapper archtype for free trapfinding and disable device at no downside. The hooded champion, divine marksman and toxophilite all offer benefits to the bow ranger. The hooded champion syncs well with a charisma build and is probably best, divine marksman offers the least. Also check out yokai hunter.

If you want to really juice your spellcasting, go for broke and take 8 levels of sorcerer after 2 of paladin. You won't qualify for AA before then, but you will get access to more spells and higher spell levels. A haramaki and darkwood buckler will protect you for cheap(no armor check penalty or spell failure chance) and can be enchanted. You would probably want those anyways once you take sorcerer levels, but it is an option anytime you start having arcane spells with a failure chance. Neither have a max dex so you could really juice dex if you wanna.


For what you intend to do, I think that going Magus (Eldritch Archer) or (Myrmidach) will actually provide the better performance.

Edit: Do the math. Sorcerer1/Arcane Archer 1+ will at best end up with the ability to cast 4th level spells and an abysmal CL of 8th at Arcane Archer 10 (you won´t even reach the cap on a Fireball for imbuing purposes).
A magus with 10 intelligence won't be casting many spells:P Although you could go eldritch scion to cast off charisma. None of the bloodline powers really benefit an archer and you are still on bard speed spell progression though.

[Snowbluff]

For what you intend to do, I think that going Magus (Eldritch Archer) or (Myrmidach) will actually provide the better performance.

Edit: Do the math. Sorcerer1/Arcane Archer 1+ will at best end up with the ability to cast 4th level spells and an abysmal CL of 8th at Arcane Archer 10 (you won´t even reach the cap on a Fireball for imbuing purposes).
Protip: Skip the latter half of Arcane Archer. Their best ability is imbue arrow anyway. I'd say pick up Eldritch Knight before the second CL loss to get more feats, BAB, and caster levels. You can enter a little early with the Heighten Spell feat and the Magical Lineage Trait with 4 sorcerer levels... Paladin2/Sorcerer4/EldritchKnight2/Arcane Archer4/EldritchKnight+8.

I'd say skip the fighter levels, too. It's not worth it.

[Florian]

A magus with 10 intelligence won't be casting many spells:P Although you could go eldritch scion to cast off charisma. None of the bloodline powers really benefit an archer and you are still on bard speed spell progression though.

"Current stats" with explecitelly calling out a dump stat strongly implies some point-buy system.


Protip: Skip the latter half of Arcane Archer. Their best ability is imbue arrow anyway. I'd say pick up Eldritch Knight before the second CL loss to get more feats, BAB, and caster levels. You can enter a little early with the Heighten Spell feat and the Magical Lineage Trait with 4 sorcerer levels... Paladin2/Sorcerer4/EldritchKnight2/Arcane Archer4/EldritchKnight+8.

I'd say skip the fighter levels, too. It's not worth it.

Beats the concept of being an archer, though, rather being a competent caster then.

[Psyren]

For an archer paladin I'd recommend a ranged Oradin build. This gives you a clear niche in the party (efficient in-combat healing) which you can easily perform while also being a competent ranged damage dealer. You can also consider dumping your already stunted paladin casting via Warrior of the Holy Light (more LoH uses) or Temple Champion (domain + blessings), though if you stick with Divine Hunter I believe that closes both of those off.

[avr]

A rod of still spell and the use of a bow don't combine well, you really want a third grasping limb to make that work. Are you interested in playing a tiefling with a prehensile tail - probably a rakshasa-spawn or div-spawn?

If not then you'll need a different trick to cast with before you can afford to give up armor. E.g. get a couple of spring-loaded wrist sheaths, put a wand in each and attach weapon cords to the wands. This will let you cast a buff then drop the wand without losing it.

BTW since the Weapon Master's Handbook came out the Archer Fighter became obsolete. You can get good enough tricks via weapon mastery feats that you really shouldn't take an archetype which loses weapon training, which the archer fighter does.

Edit: and yes, Psyren's reminder of the Oradin is a solid alternative to going arcane at all.

[Snowbluff]

Beats the concept of being an archer, though, rather being a competent caster then.

Actually, I think it blend the two quite well. "Archer" isn't a class feature, it's a build option. Those bonus feats you get from Eldritch Knight can be used to pick up your archery feats. You have pretty close to full BAB, giving you more to-hit and Attacks in a Full Attack. After that, the arcane archer levels allow you to use imbue arrow, so it stands to reason that you would want some more caster levels so you can imbue more powerful spells, as well as pick up some nice buffs and improve your versatility (which the OP wanted).

[Florian]

For an archer paladin I'd recommend a ranged Oradin build. This gives you a clear niche in the party (efficient in-combat healing) which you can easily perform while also being a competent ranged damage dealer. You can also consider dumping your already stunted paladin casting via Warrior of the Holy Light (more LoH uses) or Temple Champion (domain + blessings), though if you stick with Divine Hunter I believe that closes both of those off.

Basing the Oradin on VMC Oracle is surprisingly effective for that. Yes, the feat-progression is more or less fixed then, but leaving the Paladin progression intact, LoH, Smite and all is worth it.