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View Full Version : Can you exclude somebody from Inspire Courage?



sutasafaia
2016-04-26, 07:56 PM
We have a new player joining our group who is dead set on playing a Frenzied Berzerker. Our bard is using Dragonfire Inspiration and doesn't particularly want to buff the loose cannon that might start swinging at party members, especially when she's adding 4d6 damage to all the attacks so he can chew through mobs even faster. Is there a way to exclude him? The spell specifically says allies, so if she doesn't consider him an ally does that work despite the fact they are fighting on the same side?

mabriss lethe
2016-04-26, 08:25 PM
The bard can say who is and who isn't an ally.

Doctor Despair
2016-04-26, 09:13 PM
Here's another quandary: if the Bard starts to play when the Berserker is fighting normally and considers him an ally, she may buff him. If the Berserker rages and the Bard no longer considers him an ally, could she from that point exclude him from the effects? Would the buff follow the normal rules for Bardic music ending (5 rounds, barring feats)? Or, once designated as an ally, would the Bard be locked into buffing the Berserker for the duration of the song?

Âmesang
2016-04-26, 09:32 PM
Any chance you could hit him with mind blank? Eventually?

Jack_Simth
2016-04-26, 09:38 PM
Here's another quandary: if the Bard starts to play when the Berserker is fighting normally and considers him an ally, she may buff him. If the Berserker rages and the Bard no longer considers him an ally, could she from that point exclude him from the effects? Would the buff follow the normal rules for Bardic music ending (5 rounds, barring feats)? Or, once designated as an ally, would the Bard be locked into buffing the Berserker for the duration of the song?
You have wandered outside the realm of clearly defined RAW. Answers will vary from table to table, and any given answer really only applies to that table.

Alternately:
Reply Hazy, ask DM.

The bard can say who is and who isn't an ally.

Pretty much this. Alternatively: Learn Grease.

Crake
2016-04-26, 10:08 PM
You have wandered outside the realm of clearly defined RAW. Answers will vary from table to table, and any given answer really only applies to that table.

Alternately:
Reply Hazy, ask DM.


Pretty much this. Alternatively: Learn Grease.

Frenzied berserkers who fall over in a patch of grease can still crawl 5 feet out of it as a move action, so it's not the be all and end all of frenzied berserker fixes. The best solution my group has come up with has been summon swarm, as long as the frenzied berserker doesn't have an energy weapon that can damage it. Then the berserker just spends all his time trying to swat at the swarm ineffectively until they manage to pass their will save. The only problem is that the swarm takes 1 round to conjure, so by then someone might already be dead.

Telonius
2016-04-26, 11:05 PM
Sense Motive is not a class skill for the Barbarian.

"Hey, Thog, come look at this great thing I made for you! They're called Earplugs of Drop Bear Deflection. Keep them on whenever you're in combat, and it'll guarantee you're never attacked by drop bears."

ekarney
2016-04-26, 11:31 PM
Here's another quandary: if the Bard starts to play when the Berserker is fighting normally and considers him an ally, she may buff him. If the Berserker rages and the Bard no longer considers him an ally, could she from that point exclude him from the effects? Would the buff follow the normal rules for Bardic music ending (5 rounds, barring feats)? Or, once designated as an ally, would the Bard be locked into buffing the Berserker for the duration of the song?

Well if you no longer count him as an ally you would no longer buff him, his current effects would stay until they needed to be "cast" on him again, in which case he receives no further buffs.
That's how I'd rule it anyway.

As far as the ruling of ally, ally status can change during a combat pretty much at the whim of a character, someone gets hit by a dominate person spell at the party has to, for whatever reason disable them, they'd no longer be an ally, same deal here.

Though if you're worried about him causing a TPK just give him a merciful weapon and not teach him the command word, worst case scenario you all wake up with bruises on your head.

Darrin
2016-04-27, 02:53 AM
The only problem is that the swarm takes 1 round to conjure, so by then someone might already be dead.

Chronocharm of the Uncaring Archmage (500 GP, MIC) or Golden Desert Honey (300 GP, Complete Mage) can turn that into a standard action to cast. Glyph Seal (1000 GP, MIC) can make it a free action, keyed to a pocket with ammunition/spell components.

Âmesang
2016-04-27, 07:11 AM
What if you were able to make a berserker temporary blind? Or would they just target whomever they heard?

Jack_Simth
2016-04-27, 07:12 AM
Frenzied berserkers who fall over in a patch of grease can still crawl 5 feet out of it as a move action, so it's not the be all and end all of frenzied berserker fixes. Not the End-all, be-all, no... but per Grease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm):

A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details)Balance is Dexterity-based, so ALL Frenzied Berserkers either can't move at all, or fall. While yes, the Frenzied Berserker can crawl five feet... standing up is another move action, and that's it for the FB's actions that round. So then it's your turn again, and you just repeat. The FB is either approaching you at a crawl at 10 feet/round (in which case, you just walk slowly away and keep greasing up the floor), is moving five feet then standing up (in which case, you just take a five-foot step and Grease the floor again), or doesn't fall but also doesn't move at all. The floor doesn't get a save, and it requires a skill check that the FB simply is unable to make to move meaningfully on that floor. So while it's not the end-all, be-all, it's a 1st level spell, standard action cast, that does no harm and SEVERELY hampers the FB's ability to do anything to you. Save DC is irrelevant, so getting it in wand form makes good sense (and lets the party rogue use actions to UMD it if the party Arcanist isn't available for one reason or another).

The best solution my group has come up with has been summon swarm, as long as the frenzied berserker doesn't have an energy weapon that can damage it. Then the berserker just spends all his time trying to swat at the swarm ineffectively until they manage to pass their will save. The only problem is that the swarm takes 1 round to conjure, so by then someone might already be dead.
Also a pretty good solution, although there are ways around the casting time to make it better.