Making a truly evil pc

[Nosta]

so I will be taking place in a joke campaign but still rather serious were we the three evil generals of the Black skull lich king must make it back from the goodie goodie guys country back to our land well trying to hide how evil we are and trying not to be purged by the hero of light.

this campaign will run between the main one when the whole group can not get together

so what I like is help picking out a class that will help me be neutral evil.
I want to be Assassin like character with a red claw like arm that can deal nasty damage
I was thinking of playing a changeling and doing warshaper but I need to make it evil and more powerful

we'll start at level 12 and proablly go to level 16

[MaxiDuRaritry]

so I will be taking place in a joke campaign but still rather serious were we the three evil generals of the Black skull lich king must make it back from the goodie goodie guys country back to our land well trying to hide how evil we are and trying not to be purged by the hero of light.

this campaign will run between the main one when the whole group can not get together

so what I like is help picking out a class that will help me be neutral evil.
I want to be Assassin like character with a red claw like arm that can deal nasty damage
I was thinking of playing a changeling and doing warshaper but I need to make it evil and more powerful

we'll start at level 12 and proablly go to level 16Pale master? You've got the arm thing already; just make sure it's a Red Skelton red skeleton arm.

[Âmesang]

My first thought was casting prestidigitation on your character's master. Turn him into the dreaded… PINK SKULL LICH KING!!

[Nosta]

My first thought was casting prestidigitation on your character's master. Turn him into the dreaded… PINK SKULL LICH KING!!

BWHAHA I do not know why but that tickles my funny bone

[Sword-Geass]

If you wan't to make it evil you can never go wrong with grafts. Rendig Claw is an Illidith graft from Fiend Folio (pg. 212) that gives you a Claw attack with damage based on your size and an x3 with criticals. Clawed Arm, also from Fiend Folio pg. 210 cost 50k gp, gives you a claw attack based on your size... and an untyped +4 to strenght.

I you don't like grafts you may as well consider using the Crawling Gauntlet Symbiont, from Magic of Eberron pg. 155, but symbiont availability is highly dependant on DM, unless you are a Daelkyr Half-Blood (MoE pg. 37), in which case you get a symbiont for free.

[Buufreak]

Might I suggest the handful of undead or fiendish grafts that are available? You can be (if my memory of anatomy serves) ~91% base race, 9% whatever your graft is, with all the fun benefits of terrifying people with a grotesque, monstrous arm.

[ATHATH]

Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel.

He'll know what to do.

By the way, I recommend being a Corrupter (a NE Paladin Variant from Dragon #313 that specializes in going undercover and corrupting the faith of people who don't worship his deity (in this case, your Lich King (insert WoW references here)) and receiving the Half-Golem template (I recommend being a Half-Clay Golem) to get your super-arm.

[Telonius]

What do you know about this "hero of the light," and what resources do you currently have available? I'm assuming you're returning to your lich king in triumph, at the head of your armies. (If not, reconsider whether or not you ought to be returning).

If this is purely a stealth mission - or you've somehow found yourself behind enemy lines unprepared - I'd suggest getting your story straight. You're three very able-bodied men, and there's a lich king in the kingdom next door. You should probably have a very good reason for why you aren't serving in the Hero of Light's resistance force.

[Sword-Geass]

What do you know about this "hero of the light," and what resources do you currently have available? I'm assuming you're returning to your lich king in triumph, at the head of your armies. (If not, reconsider whether or not you ought to be returning).

If this is purely a stealth mission - or you've somehow found yourself behind enemy lines unprepared - I'd suggest getting your story straight. You're three very able-bodied men, and there's a lich king in the kingdom next door. You should probably have a very good reason for why you aren't serving in the Hero of Light's resistance force.

They are the generals of the Lich King... Did you even read? :smallconfused:

[Geddy2112]

Get the job done ruthlessly and efficiently. Don't let things like innocent life and mercy get in the way of you getting what you want. You clearly have selfish interest serving this lich king, so get what you want from the deal and do the job.

Any class can do that.

[Mr_Blue]

someone say warshaper? I recommend 1-2 levels souleater, but you will need the Feral template to get monstrous humanoid. Not much is more evil then ripping out the souls of children. Don't forget Improved energy drain to turn those negative levels into a bonuses snowball.

[SethoMarkus]

They are the generals of the Lich King... Did you even read? :smallconfused:

I believe the question was more geared as why are they serving as the lich's generals? What are their motivations and goals? What do they hope to gain from this? Is it out of loyalty? Convenience? Do they respect and/or fear the lich to the point of doing its bidding, or do they think they may one day surpass it and take over them selves?

Since this thread seems to be asking how to play a character sufficiently evil for this role in addition to build advice, I ceel that these are important questions. Afterall, if the characters have no good reason for staying with the lich, why not defect to the side of the hero? They could remain evil; evil does fight evil, too, especially if the other evil opposes their goals.

[Nightcanon]

They are the generals of the Lich King... Did you even read? :smallconfused:
...whereas I read it as 'what is the cover story you give when picked up and questioned by the elite troops of the Hero of Light (if this is a stealth mission and killing them all and defiling their corpses ain't an option)?'

[Red Fel]

Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel.

He'll know what to do.

He will. And does.

Let's have a look.


so I will be taking place in a joke campaign but still rather serious

No. Stop that.

You can have a serious campaign with some humor. You can have a humorous campaign with a plot. But please actually tell me which one. This? This tells me nothing. It's like going to a restaurant and saying, "I like bland food, but still rather flavorful;" the only reason the chef doesn't personally emerge from the kitchen to throat-punch you is the fact that the restaurant will, inexplicably, be blamed and lose business.


were we the three evil generals of the Black skull lich king must make it back from the goodie goodie guys country back to our land well trying to hide how evil we are and trying not to be purged by the hero of light.

So, the Odyssey, but with villains? Interesting.

Have you considered, I don't know, simply not murdering puppies until you're home, safe, sound, and sinister? Villainy isn't some sort of compulsion where you go into withdrawal if you don't bathe in the blood of the innocent every few hours. The easiest way to escape from Good territory undetected is simply to abstain from Evil during your stay. Save it for when you get home.


this campaign will run between the main one when the whole group can not get together

So, a filler campaign. Perfect time for humor.


so what I like is help picking out a class that will help me be neutral evil.

That's not how classes work.


I want to be Assassin like character with a red claw like arm that can deal nasty damage

Assassin class, arm graft (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?190350-Fleshwarping-A-List-of-Grafts-Symbionts-and-Related-Goodies) that grants a natural attack, Improved Natural Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalAttack) feat.


I was thinking of playing a changeling and doing warshaper but I need to make it evil and more powerful

Good choice; also, not how classes work.


we'll start at level 12 and proablly go to level 16

Okay, chief. I've explained this before, I'll explain this again.

Let's say you have a piece of wood. Ordinary 2x4 piece of wood, same as any other 2x4 piece of wood. Is the wood evil?

Let's say you smack a fool with it. Now is it evil? Let's say instead you smack him about the head until his animating spirit departs him. Now is it evil? Let's say you use the wood to do unspeakable things to his family, children, and dog, while he watches, before killing them all with it. Now is it evil?

No. It's a freaking piece of wood. You, on the other hand, are an incredibly disturbed individual. (Seriously. That poor dog.)

Classes work the same way. With the exception of classes that explicitly require you to be Evil, a class is simply a toolbox - a bunch of pieces of wood. It's a bundle of abilities. It's the sick, twisted monkey-flunky using those abilities who defines whether the result is Evil. Even classes that explicitly require an Evil alignment aren't necessarily "truly Evil."

Stop trying to define your character's alignment by mechanics. Come up with a combination of class levels, feats, and other features that you want to play.

And then make it Evil.

But seriously, stop doing that to dogs. It's messed up.

[A.A.King]

May I suggest playing an Neutral Evil Bard?

Speficially: Changeling Bard 6 / Warshaper 4 / Bard +2 (8) (and continueing as a bard from there on)

The Changeling + Warshaper bit is there to give you that claw attack you want as well as giving you fast healing. The Bard levels give you the skills needed to be a sneaky assassin as well as some great music abilities

You can either have Inspire Courage to buff your army and be a more effective general or Inspire Awe (Dragon Magic) to strike terror in the hearts of those who dare oppose you (which might give it the more 'evil' feel you're after)
You can trade away Counter Song to gain Mimicking Song (Dungeonscape) which you can use to boost your Move Silently skill (becoming an even stealthy assassin)
At Bard 9 you can trade away Inspire Greatness for Inspire Hatred (Exemplars of Evil) which allows you to trick your enemies to fight amongst themselves (another skill worthy of a general).

Those 8+ Bard Levels also give you some great spellcasting and the bard list has some real beauties for an Assassin like character. Catsfeet, Swift Invisibility[i] and to some extent [i]Alibi are some first level spells which help you go undetected. Undetectable Alignment and Doublespeak are spells which allow you to hide your evil from the surrounding people. If you go the poison route (a very Assassin-like thing to do) you can learn the spell Increase Virulence to be more effective at that. Finally spells like Create Fetch the Bard-only Glibness are also great tools for any Assassin-like character.

[Telonius]

They are the generals of the Lich King... Did you even read?



...whereas I read it as 'what is the cover story you give when picked up and questioned by the elite troops of the Hero of Light (if this is a stealth mission and killing them all and defiling their corpses ain't an option)?'

That's more what I was going for. All we know so far is that there are three generals of the lich king that are returning home, and trying to hide the fact that they're evil while doing so. Three heavily armed, level-12 combatants is going to raise concerns anywhere, and work against the "hide the fact they're evil" thing. Unless the hero's kingdom is filled with idiots, somebody is going to start asking questions. "We're the generals of the Lich King!" is not going to be the preferred answer.

[Red Fel]

Unless the hero's kingdom is filled with idiots, somebody is going to start asking questions. "We're the generals of the Lich King!" is not going to be the preferred answer.

And then you get this.

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/warriors.gif

[Flickerdart]

Have you considered, I don't know, simply not murdering puppies until you're home, safe, sound, and sinister? Villainy isn't some sort of compulsion where you go into withdrawal if you don't bathe in the blood of the innocent every few hours. The easiest way to escape from Good territory undetected is simply to abstain from Evil during your stay. Save it for when you get home.
What's the point of being Evil if you don't have fun with it? When you find yourself in the middle of Good Guy Land, you're not surrounded, you're in a target-rich environment. You need to be smart about how you do evil, but the opportunities you're presented with will inevitably be far too tempting. Only losers avoid taking risks. You want to serve as the general of the lich forever, or do you want your own generals someday? Show ambition!

So what you really want is not a class that lets you be evil. Any class, aside from the lame types of paladin, can be evil.

You want a class that lets you be evil and get away with it. And there are three things that you need to accomplish this.

The opportunity
Cruising around the countryside and waiting for opportunities to do evil to blunder into your lap, is a losing proposition. You might as well take the boring Red Fel way and make a break for the border without distractions, because the likelihood of walking into a situation where your actions will have a lasting, evil, effect is nil. You also have a good chance of walking straight into the Hero of Light, or one of his lieutenants. Presumably he is equal in power to your boss guy, so this is not an outcome you want.

You're going to want an information-gathering network, which means magic. Either divinations or scouts, preferably both. You will be greatly served by being a wizard because you can bind fiends and get them to do the scouting for you, and use spells like scry and contact other plane to find out cool things about the world around you. Clerics can use the less-good commune and planar ally. Druids can talk to rocks and trees and whatever.

If you don't want to be a spellcaster, a level in Binder gives you the ability to bind Malphas. Then you can summon a cool bird and see through its eyes.

The motive
Whenever you do evil, you need a goal beyond evulz. Think about what you want to do when you get home.

If you want to return to Good Guy Land with an army, it's in your best interests to weaken the local power structure - turn rulers against one another, replace good guys with secret bad guys, corrupt at every turn. For this, you will need great social skills, and a bit of mind control to grease the wheels. Once again, spellcasters are tops - from charm person to mind rape, getting people to do what you want has never been easier. There is a hilarious psionic power called mind seed which overrides a target's mind with your own, over the course of a week. What better way to screw over the country than spawning dozens more of yourself?

If you want to increase your personal power, there's no better time than now. Your overlord is not in a position to do anything about you if you decide to become stronger than him. If you were home, he could notice your rise and put a stop to it, but here, you have free reign. The easy way is to gain levels by murdering all kinds of things. You can also steal powerful magic items (so you need stealy skills) or even eat souls (like a barghest) or spawn minions (like a vampire). Depending on how you want to get stronger, plan your skillset accordingly. Nothing is more embarrassing than deciding you want the king's Crown of Amazing Greatness and then getting caught stealing it because you're a straight fighter with no ranks in stealth.


The great escape
You did the thing. Good job! Asmodeus himself appears in a puff of smoke to give you a congratulatory fistbump, and strongly implies that you will see each other again very soon since the forces of good are about to find you and kill you.

So you need to get away, and cover your tracks. Illusions and transmutations are your friend - if everyone is looking for a red-haired half-orc warrior, a blond gnome bard will slip right past them. Being a spellcaster is, once again, a tremendous asset, but be wary of true seeing and put ranks in the mundane Disguise skill. The enemy will also have other divinations (down to the simple detect evil) so make sure you have ways of hiding your alignment, location, true form, and mother's maiden name.

You can also do evil through unsuspecting rubes. If the king is murdered and you were one town over, you have a great alibi. The same minions that do your scouting are useful here, as well as the guys you mind controlled or charmed. Slow-acting poisons and diseases (especially the kind that are difficult to detect and cure) are good too since you can set it and forget it. Contingent slay living that fires as soon as you cross the border, hitting every noble you shook hands with? Hilarious.

However, the forces of Good are, well, good. Good at killing you. Make sure that being killed isn't fatal. Being a vampire or a lich is the straightforward way, but there's ways to dust undead that are troublesome. Wizards have clone and astral projection, and psions have astral seed. Make sure you or your allies can cast resurrection spells - goody two shoes characters are unlikely to eat your soul when they kill you. They're also unlikely to kill you, so it will help if you have a means of suicide and an ally somewhere far away with a true resurrection.

[Segev]

I am going to second Pale Master.

If you're wanting to do three things, which I think I have picked up from your post, anyway:

1) Play Evil McEvilton Jerkmaster O'Murderkins on your way out of Guditushuszland
2) Be a black humor mini-campaign
3) Keep the hero off your backs, but not necessarily by doing the smart thing and just not being evil for a little while.

Use Pale Master to get your evil claw thing. But as an "assassin-like" character, if you don't mind stretching that a bit, go for being the Plague Master sort, rather than the personal throat-slitter. Sure, you can do that in your spare time, but your bread-and-butter should be more long-range, planned-out kills.

Take the Mother Cyst feat.

Then liberally abuse command undead to bring skulking cysts into your service. You can create them by murdering people with necrotic eruption, amongst other methods. Send several off in directions well divergent from your own path. Give them orders, even, to head inwards after they've separated from you a bit, deeper into Guditushuszland. Their orders are to spread necrotic cysts among as much of the populace as possible. If you have a spare sapient minion, give him a wand of necrotic eruption and send him out and around to blow a few of these far-spread victims up. Use teleport to visit a few towns well off your path.

...also, why aren't you teleporting home, now that I think about it?

The blight and destruction will keep the hero(es) too busy to hunt you down when there's no trouble near you nor your pathway home.

And don't forget to keep peasants and their fresh-faced progeny infested with your necrotic cysts nearby, so if the heroes show up, you can use them as meat shields and then blow them up to seriously hurt the heroes (and make them experience horror at their inability to save the rugrats).

[Janthkin]

...also, why aren't you teleporting home, now that I think about it?I'm assuming that the Lich King is looking to replace his incompetent generals, and decided to amuse himself by sending them out like this.

[SethoMarkus]

Red Fel, Flickerdart, and Segev in the same thread? Is it an Evil Holiday?

[Telonius]

Red Fel, Flickerdart, and Segev in the same thread? Is it an Evil Holiday?

On a completely unrelated note, a good way to avoid people noticing that you're evil is to make sure there's a distraction. This could be as simple as summoning a Devil, drawing attention away from your regular, mortal evil to a more obvious extraplanar version. Or you might engineer some other crisis - a child gets "lost," some accusations of witchcraft against the local Cleric, things like that. Ideally, the problem would be something where you could volunteer to "help" by heading out to the next town and notifying them.

[Buufreak]

Red Fel, Flickerdart, and Segev in the same thread? Is it an Evil Holiday?

Yes. Did you bring your offering? *pours out mountains of chips and shiny new d20s*

[Red Fel]

Yes. Did you bring your offering? *pours out mountains of chips and shiny new d20s*

Impudent whelp! You think that I would be swayed by such mere trinkets as these?

... You'd better have salsa, too.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

On a completely unrelated note, a good way to avoid people noticing that you're evil is to make sure there's a distraction. This could be as simple as summoning a Devil, drawing attention away from your regular, mortal evil to a more obvious extraplanar version. Or you might engineer some other crisis - a child gets "lost," some accusations of witchcraft against the local Cleric, things like that. Ideally, the problem would be something where you could volunteer to "help" by heading out to the next town and notifying them.Similarly, make sure your public image is really, really good. If you're going to burn down an orphanage, have your minions do it quietly, then publicly pledge to build a new and improved one on your own dime (when in fact it's your mafia-style protection racket that's footing the bill). Unleash a plague of undead in secret, quietly laugh at the havoc, and then step in and stop it once you've gotten bored watching the slaughter.

Basically, commit all the havoc you want to satisfy your urges, then step in and make it look like you're saving the day. Better yet, have goals to work towards using evil means, then swoop in to clean up after yourself to make you look like the hero. Start a war to line your pockets, throw out tons of propaganda, then win the war you started in a way that makes you look like a shining knight.

Good PR can protect you from the good guys much better than any suit of armor can, especially if you cover your arse.

Basically, look at modern politicians and do what they do.

[Inevitability]

Impudent whelp! You think that I would be swayed by such mere trinkets as these?

And that, kids, is why you prepare Greater Teleport during your fiend-binding downtime.

[Flickerdart]

And that, kids, is why you prepare Greater Teleport during your fiend-binding downtime.

I prefer secret page because you can turn


Impudent whelp! You think that I would be swayed by such mere trinkets as these?

into


This offering has convinced me to abandon my evil ways and retire to a peaceful abbey

[Buufreak]

Impudent whelp! You think that I would be swayed by such mere trinkets as these?

... You'd better have salsa, too.

Does the dark lord prefer mild, hot, or first circle of hell?

[Inevitability]

Does the dark lord prefer mild, hot, or first circle of hell?

Does first circle of hell-grade salsa have a mininature Tiamat swimming in it?

[Red Fel]

Does the dark lord prefer mild, hot, or first circle of hell?

Do you not see the folly of your own question?

Medium, actually. I like being able to taste my food, thank you very much.


Does first circle of hell-grade salsa have a mininature Tiamat swimming in it?

Only at the best parties, DS. Only at the best.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Only at the best parties, DS. Only at the best.Nah. I'll have to disagree with you there. The best parties have Olympic-sized swimming pools full of salsa big enough that a life-sized Tiamat* can join in the festivities.






*A little-known fact is that Tiamat gets drunk on spicy salsa; she really likes hot sauce, and it puts her in a good enough mood that she'll tolerate** mortals briefly, and even occasionally break out into tipsy giggles.

**ie, not kill.

[Segev]

Do you not see the folly of your own question?

Medium, actually. I like being able to taste my food, thank you very much.Hear, here!



Only at the best parties, DS. Only at the best.

To be fair, your hell-parties tend to fit that bill. As long as you're not the one who loses the game of musical chairs and has to foot said bill.

The secret to THAT is not actually playing, but being the one controlling the music. Funny how few have caught on as to why I volunteer to run that event.