Red Hand of Doom Campaign Help

[proselus]

Hello,

So I'm going to be running a RHOD campaign with my group, taking over as DM for a short break from our normal campaign. I have read through Saintheart's excellent handbook, but was looking for some more specific help on a couple of questions.

So first main thing is how much I should tweak monsters. Current party (unless someone changes their mind) is:
A Water Orc/Half Minotaur Barb going into Frenzied Berserker (very familiar with system, high optimizer)
A Shaman of unknown race (very familiar, high optimizer, normal DM)
A Marrulurk (RHD ignored, house rules) Swift Hunter (Somewhat familiar, asks for help to optimize)
A straight rogue of unknown race (somewhat familiar, not optimizer, but creates very unique characters)
A melee of some kind, possibly tank-style (very familiar, optimizer, but always ends up with thoroughly insane builds)
So with 2 people going high-op, several people with lots of experience, but 0 arcane characters, what do I need to alter or be careful about?

Secondly, our house rules include a "swing level" mechanic that allows for people to get templates at no xp cost, by paying people to experiment on you and slowly getting the benefits. The benefits unlock instead of getting bonus xp, so that everyone is on the same page xp-wise.
Now RHOD doesn't really work with this cost-wise (normal campaign is much higher level) but I was looking for goodies to give out instead of bonus xp (characters with level at the rate of story). So far I was thinking of stat boosts (ie +2 to a stat of their choice), bonus feats, or magic items. However, I don't want to overpower these guys.

-Edit-
Forgot to ask a third question, our normal campaign features npc's that we can swap in and out to have some extra help if needed. I would like to have that mechanic still existto some degree, as its been standardin our group for a long time, but I don't see that RHOD really has allies that hang out with you for very long. Would this be easy to implement? Maybe another group of adventurers who are also hindering the RHOD forces that the PC's can borrow?

Thoughts?
and thanks in advance

[Kelb_Panthera]

I don't recall there being anything in the adventure that would -demand- a caster and you do have a shaman (which one, btw?).

A gentle reminder to the shaman that he has the spirit ally spell at his disposal, starting at level 7, can go a -long- way. CD has a side-bar in the spirit shaman description describing what constitutes a spirit.

As another option for giving the party useful features they lack is a good, old-fashioned intelligent item. It's not quite as intrusive as a full-on NPC and it's pretty unlikely to be sold since it can just shut itself down to avoid it. Throw it in the vault in vraath keep or have the wizard in drellin's ferry give it to them.

Obviously, respec' the red-hand's casters to be in line with the party's capabilities (but not too much, keep 'em on their toes :smallwink:).

Beyond that, I wouldn't worry overmuch about the monsters. Maybe add in a couple extra here and there or upgrade to something a little more vicious if your optimizers prove to be too much for them.

For the FB in particular, make sure to have intelligent enemies use tactical maneuvering to minimize his ability to steam-roll anything he can reach and maybe give a few of them tower shields to soak his charge.

As for your second question, I'm afraid I don't quite grasp your meaning.

Question 3: some extra adventurers passing through the area seems as good a way to implement that as any. There's a city nearby to justify them being in or passing through drellin's ferry in bristol. There are also a number of natives that could be enlisted to aid the party that they will likely encounter during the course of the adventure.

[Bobby Baratheon]

If you don't mind them being elves (ewww), at least some of the allies can be from the local elf tribe. The PCs meet them sort of early on, but you could easily have a scouting party find them en route the first keep and help them. I think the other adventurers idea would work well, too.

I ran a mini-campaign based off of RHOD, and I found it effective to stiffen up the bottom-of-the-barrel mooks a little bit. It was less so that they present a threat and more that the PCs would get a little more satisfaction from murderizing them. In our experience, it was more fun to fight mooks that could at the very least take a hit rather than the base hobgoblins, who fall over in a stiff breeze. However, my players were outperforming expectations and had hit upon some nifty combos.

[proselus]

I don't recall there being anything in the adventure that would -demand- a caster and you do have a shaman (which one, btw?).

Ah my inexperience kills me on this one. I guess it's the Oriental Adventure Shaman, which was updated somewhere (drag mag probably) and I think it uses the druid spell lost with minor alterations. I gotta read the spirit thing so I know what it can do.


another option for giving the party useful features they lack is a good, old-fashioned intelligent item. It's not quite as intrusive as a full-on NPC and it's pretty unlikely to be sold since it can just shut itself down to avoid it. Throw it in the vault in vraath keep or have the wizard in drellin's ferry give it to them.
I never thought about this! Thank you! I'll have to look up exactly how they work since we've never really used one before.


As for your second question, I'm afraid I don't quite grasp your meaning.
Ah sorry I should be way more clear on this. In essence, the party doesn't gain xp. They just level up when appropriate. However the campaign awards bonus xp for doing things well, and I want a way to give my players a bonus. My thoughts were occasional stat boosts, or minor magic items, but I wasn't sure if other people had more clever ideas.

As for extra adventurers I'm glad I'm in the right track. (and maybe making then elves will make sure they don't overshadow my players :smalltongue:

[Elder_Basilisk]

1. You will probably need to upgrade your Red Hand hobgoblins and other standard monsters across the board. I don't think the adventure demands an arcane caster but there are a few where one may prove very useful:

A. Ruins of Rhest Vs. Regiatrix and Saarvith. The ability to fly or bring them to earth is very helpful since they have no reason to ever trade blows with the party in melee.

B. Siege of Brindol barricade scenario: Some area damage trash clearing ability is very helpful here. Also in the giants attacking the walls scenario if you go with the 100 hobgoblin ambush but I'm not sure how dangerous that would be to your players.

C. Siege of Brindol vs Abiathrax. Again, the ability to fly is very helpful here especially since Abiathrax should be able to hide in the smoke from the fires to avoid or mitigate ranged attacks.

D. Finale vs. Azar Kuul. I don't know how essential arcane spellcasting actually is in this encounter, but you start off at a huge tactical/positional disadvantage (flying/climbing up through a long shaft into a silenced (but only for you), unhallowed room and attempting to fight a foe protected by an anti-life shell and several flying foes with ranged attacks. Lots of dispel magics and some battlefield control stuff really makes this a lot easier and it could be challenging with only one caster.

2. Your guys are already going to be overpowered for their levels and roles. Adding arbitrary stat boosts on top of that will just make things worse.

3. There are a lot of NPCs who could join the party for extended periods of time:
A. Jorr Natharson. The adventure assumes he will be hired and will guide the party to Vraath Keep, but with a few modifications, he could easily join the party longer term.
B. Teyani, lion of Brindol. Any of the lions could easily join the party for a little bit rather than just being Shakespearean messnegers.
C. Trellara Nightshadow. In the unmodified adventure, she's mentioned as a possibility to join the party. No problem.
D. Miha Serani. Sure, she's a spy and a traitor, but she'd be happy to join the party.

There are also a number of retired adventurers like Delora Zann (Drellin's Ferry) and capable people such as Brother Derny (Drellin's Ferry), Kellin Shadowbanks (Drellin's Ferry), Eldremma Axenhaft (Brindol), Leille of St. Cuthbert (Terrelton), etc who might join the party after the evacuation of their villages. Depending upon how the battle of Brindol plays out, it's possible that lady Kaal or Rillor Paln might be available to assist the party thereafter.

I would be cautious of adding more active adventurers to the area because the base Red Hand of Doom setting is rather clearly a sleepy area that has not had much in the way of recent threats or excitement which is why the Red Hand catches them so disunited and unprepared. Make it a frontier area populated by non-retired adventurers, and you will create some problems for adapting the adventure to your setting.

[proselus]

Elder Basilisk - Thanks a lot for your input! I am already boosting the power of the mooks, so they are a little more of a obstacle instead of a speed bump. I'm thinking of leaving bosses alone (for the first chapter at least) since the lack of arcane should help balance the party.

As for the boosts, yeah I know it will power up the party, but a) our group loves that power creep, even if it means the monsters increase, b) I was only gonna do it occasionally, maybe 2-3 times over the course of the campaign, and c) I was actually looking at alternatives, like cheap magic items for more interesting play. That should help against power creep, any suggestions?

I agree with not adding a bunch of adventurers, so I was thinking of adapting NPCs already present (thank you for your list!) and maybe adding 1 or 2 others to increase options available to the party to cover gaps they may have. (and yes, I know this boosts power more, but that's what Tome of Battle is for, my group doesn't like it, I do, so now the Hobgoblins do too :smallbiggrin:)

[Elder_Basilisk]

Elder Basilisk - Thanks a lot for your input! I am already boosting the power of the mooks, so they are a little more of a obstacle instead of a speed bump. I'm thinking of leaving bosses alone (for the first chapter at least) since the lack of arcane should help balance the party.

Some of the bosses will need help too. Against your group, I think Ulwai and Kaarth probably need upgrades, as will the behir monstrosity and the ghostlord.


As for the boosts, yeah I know it will power up the party, but a) our group loves that power creep, even if it means the monsters increase, b) I was only gonna do it occasionally, maybe 2-3 times over the course of the campaign, and c) I was actually looking at alternatives, like cheap magic items for more interesting play. That should help against power creep, any suggestions?

Well a +2 stat bonus 2 or 3 times over the course of the campaign is equivalent to a +4 or +6 tome of statboost and would easily be equivalent to doubling the party's wealth by level (even after accounting for it not being the best way to spend 100,000 to 150,000 gp). I think looking for alternatives is a good idea.

I like the intelligent magic items suggestion. There are a few items in the MIC that I particularly like--the meteoric knife in particular is flavorful and neat without being dramatically overpowered. If you powered it up by (for example) giving it 1 charge per character level rather than 3 charges per day, it might fit the bill.

Other good ideas might be pact spells (such as stalwart pact and renewal pact) especially if the party does not otherwise have access to them or is not high enough level to cast them, or non-mechanical items like knighthoods or the opportunity to marry into the aristocracy.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Hobgoblin duskblades from MMV make for fine sergeants here. They pack a punch, and have at least a little staying power. They're also not hard to run - at the very least, just spam shocking grasp.

One thing I did was to mix some "beastmen" into the horde - Ibixians make for surprisingly sticky mooks, and elemental magi make for pretty sweet mini-bosses. Minotaurs are also nice. I did this to add more variety to the horde, and provide semi-credible threats to the players. The elemental magi in particular were fun, and it's not even hard to refluff them as draconic. They're already magic ogres with huge horns.

EDIT: They do a very good job of replacing the hill giants, who are woefully outmatched against PCs.

[proselus]

Some of the bosses will need help too. Against your group, I think Ulwai and Kaarth probably need upgrades, as will the behir monstrosity and the ghostlord.

Yeah I definitely need to boost Ghostlord, most of the people are very familiar with Liches and may think they can take him out. Ulwai I might do what I read in a logbook somewhere and give her a level to gain Confusion spell, as the Berserker character has already said his will save is garbage. (Though he alone may TPK, I hope the party is aware of his risk)


Well a +2 stat bonus 2 or 3 times over the course of the campaign is equivalent to a +4 or +6 tome of statboost and would easily be equivalent to doubling the party's wealth by level (even after accounting for it not being the best way to spend 100,000 to 150,000 gp). I think looking for alternatives is a good idea.

I like the intelligent magic items suggestion. There are a few items in the MIC that I particularly like--the meteoric knife in particular is flavorful and neat without being dramatically overpowered. If you powered it up by (for example) giving it 1 charge per character level rather than 3 charges per day, it might fit the bill.

Other good ideas might be pact spells (such as stalwart pact and renewal pact) especially if the party does not otherwise have access to them or is not high enough level to cast them, or non-mechanical items like knighthoods or the opportunity to marry into the aristocracy.

These are some very good points......I think I'll restrict it to non stacking stat boosts if I do them at all, so only +2 to a stat, but I'll try to do items first. I gotta flip through the books and find a bunch of more "flavorful" items. Has anyone done a "handbook" on intelligent items, or is it better just to randomly create them and let the players have fun?


Hobgoblin duskblades from MMV make for fine sergeants here. They pack a punch, and have at least a little staying power. They're also not hard to run - at the very least, just spam shocking grasp.

One thing I did was to mix some "beastmen" into the horde - Ibixians make for surprisingly sticky mooks, and elemental magi make for pretty sweet mini-bosses. Minotaurs are also nice. I did this to add more variety to the horde, and provide semi-credible threats to the players. The elemental magi in particular were fun, and it's not even hard to refluff them as draconic. They're already magic ogres with huge horns.

EDIT: They do a very good job of replacing the hill giants, who are woefully outmatched against PCs.

I do like the MMV variants, I figure if the players wipe the floor with the first encounter, those variants make a strong showing. Sourcebook for the Ibixians and Elemental Magi? I like the Minotaur, help make the half minotaur more suspicious looking in towns if minotaurs are helping the Red Hand.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Ah my inexperience kills me on this one. I guess it's the Oriental Adventure Shaman, which was updated somewhere (drag mag probably) and I think it uses the druid spell lost with minor alterations. I gotta read the spirit thing so I know what it can do.

Alright, then your friend is throwing you a bone. That's the weaker of the two shamans. I did go ahead and presume this when I made my last post since you said shaman rather than spirit shamnan. Spirit ally, however, is one of the more powerful spells in the game and he'll be more than flexible enough to deal with the adventure as long as he knows how to use it.



I never thought about this! Thank you! I'll have to look up exactly how they work since we've never really used one before.

There's a whole section on DMG 298-271. Don't be afraid to use what's presented as a template for more customized options. The only thing that might be tricky is the item's ego pushing it toward dictating a PC's behavior. You'll want to either keep its ego relatively low or make it an item suited to one of the characters with the good will saves the shaman.


Ah sorry I should be way more clear on this. In essence, the party doesn't gain xp. They just level up when appropriate. However the campaign awards bonus xp for doing things well, and I want a way to give my players a bonus. My thoughts were occasional stat boosts, or minor magic items, but I wasn't sure if other people had more clever ideas.

I'd rather go with the minor items than the stat boosts. The latter is -very- powerful unless you're deciding which abilities get the boost and even then..... Yeah, definitely the minor items or maybe temporary abilities like you get from touchstone sites (sandstorm and the planar handbook for details).


As for extra adventurers I'm glad I'm in the right track. (and maybe making then elves will make sure they don't overshadow my players :smalltongue:

Some people find elves to be generally distasteful and elf races do tend to be on the low-end of LA +0 but race is such a minor part of -most- characters' capability that it's not a significant detriment to be one. You'll do better to avoid over-shadowing by simply keeping them single-class.

[Elder_Basilisk]

These are some very good points......I think I'll restrict it to non stacking stat boosts if I do them at all, so only +2 to a stat, but I'll try to do items first. I gotta flip through the books and find a bunch of more "flavorful" items. Has anyone done a "handbook" on intelligent items, or is it better just to randomly create them and let the players have fun?

You'll probably want to randomly create them. I will note, though, that in all of the source material literature I've read, all intelligent weapons were evil and would betray the wielder in the end.

Gurthang betrayed Turin in the Silmarillion
The One Ring was always treacherous and led Isildur and Gollum to their dooms (and nearly did so with Bilbo and Frodo as well)
The black sword led to its wielder's death in Poul Anderson's Broken Sword
The sword Odin offers to Hrolf Kraki in the saga of Hrolf Kraki is strongly implied to turn its wielder to evil (at least in Poul Anderson's telling).

This is probably a necessary narrative factor when dealing with an intelligent magic weapon. If its purposes align perfectly with the character's purposes, then you don't gain any extra narrative tension or conflict by having it be intelligent. In that scenario, what it does if intelligent would be exactly the same as what it would do if it were not intelligent. Also, there would not be the dramatic tension of choosing to wield (or not wield) a weapon that you know will bring you doom.

Now, players probably are on the lookout for blackrazor and other similar character destroying items, but having the intelligent item have goals that will sometimes conflict with the PCs' goals might be good. You might want to outline two or three situations where the item is going to have conflicts with the PC in the adventure path.

For example: Giantslayer. Hates giants and is gained early on. Conflicts: 1. Giantslayer wants the PC to attack Gnarlclaw out of hand. 2. Giantslayer is not content to remain behind the walls of Brindol when the hill giants start lobbing rocks. It wants the PC to jump down and charge the giants. 3. Giantslayer isn't interested in attacking Kharn during the final battle of Brindol--not if there are hill giant bodyguards to be attacked. Most of the time Giantslayer behaves itself and is a good little magic sword, contributing its extra action to Aid or Cure Moderate Wounds its wielder at appropriate moments. However, at those three points, it reminds its wielder that it is not just a bonus action; it is a character that has goals.

In order to create such tension, the item should have enough ego that the PC wielding it has a change to fail the save. Alternately, it could have different power levels for when it is happy and when it is sulking. For example, Giantslayer might be a +3 giantbane sword when happy, but just a +1 giantbane sword when it is sulking.

[Bobby Baratheon]

I do like the MMV variants, I figure if the players wipe the floor with the first encounter, those variants make a strong showing. Sourcebook for the Ibixians and Elemental Magi? I like the Minotaur, help make the half minotaur more suspicious looking in towns if minotaurs are helping the Red Hand.

Ibixians are from MMIII, and elemental magi are from MMV. You could conceivably use the half minotaur template to beef up the ibixians if you need too, though as is they're decently competent mooks (when compared to hobgoblins) thanks to racial hit die and getting bonuses to attack and damage if there are other ibixians within thirty feet.

[proselus]

....All the things....

I like the idea of Touchstone abilities, hand-waved as "an NPC casts this on you" so that will make it, and I like little magic items that are more fun than powerful, so I'll probably do those. After all, the peoples would be willing to hand over magic items to helpers, but less likely to hand over the weapons since they'll need them for defense.


You'll probably want to randomly create them. I will note, though, that in all of the source material literature I've read, all intelligent weapons were evil and would betray the wielder in the end.

Yeah we had a intelligent weapon for 1/2 session in the main campaign, and it was in my character's possession simply because it was a large sword, and I was large. However I was a charger melee build, and my main hammer had valorous, the greatsword didn't. It was a demon killer, I was statted as a dragon killer. SO yeah, I liked it, but in character wouldn't have cared, power was more important. traded for a better hammer. I'll have to be sure to make the item either not a weapon, or very specifically built so they won't abandon them. And never let the berserker have one, because he would fail every save :smallbiggrin: