command conjured animals in Wild Shape

[emacleric]

Hello everybody! I'm playing a moon druid.
Conjure animals spell description says, once you have conjured your animals: "They obey any
verbal commands that you issue to them (no action
required by you). If you don't issue any commands to
them, they defend themselves from hostile creatures,
but otherwise take no actions".
My question is, if I cast conjure animals, then I use wild shape to turn into a Dire Wolf, can I command my minions? Or, since in my new form I can't speak, I can't do that?
Thank you

[TundraBuccaneer]

It is probably best to ask your DM how he/she thinks it works. On one hand though de spell doesn't give you speak with animals instantly so I suspect that they should obey you no mater what language you speak, so even in animal form especial if you a similar animal. Also you can just tell them to follow your lead.

[Tanarii]

Best to cast Speak with Animals first. :smallsmile:

[hymer]

Hello everybody! I'm playing a moon druid.
Conjure animals spell description says, once you have conjured your animals: "They obey any verbal commands that you issue to them (no action required by you). If you don't issue any commands to them, they defend themselves from hostile creatures, but otherwise take no actions".
My question is, if I cast conjure animals, then I use wild shape to turn into a Dire Wolf, can I command my minions? Or, since in my new form I can't speak, I can't do that?
Thank you

Wild shapes can only speak if the animal you changed into can. And in using the word 'verbal' (which means 'with words') in the spell description, they probably mean the new-fangled, degenerated version, so as to avoid that risqué word 'oral' (which means 'with mouth' - whoo!). Even if they don't, it just means you could command your minions by writing them notes or playing pre-recorded messages on your iPod.
So it's pretty clear that you're not supposed to be able to command your conjured beasties in wild shape. If you plan to wild shape while conjuring minions, you need to give them instructions beforehand; which basically turns them over to DM control based on how s/he judges your instructions and the intelligence of the beasts (which is generally very poor). Maybe you can tell them to do as someone else orders, but this is iffy, as they seem to understand specifically the caster's orders.
In any case, asking your DM is often the best policy.


Best to cast Speak with Animals first. :smallsmile:

This is a good idea, and should work. But it's not completely fool-proof. Conjure Animals indicates that these are really fey spirits taking shape as animals, so the DM may not allow you to Speak with Animals That Are Really Fey Spirits. Again, ask the DM.

[Dr. Cliché]

Well, Wild Shape says "your ability to speak...is limited to the capabilities of your beast form."

Personally, I'd probably rule it that you can command animals similar to your beast form. So, a wolf could issue commands to other canine animals. A lion could issue commands to big cats, that sort of thing.

[Tanarii]

Wild shapes can only speak if the animal you changed into can.What animals can speak verbally? Parrots and Mynah birds can mimic speech, but I'm not sure if that would count as being able to issue verbal commands. Probably should. It seems reasonable.


This is a good idea, and should work. But it's not completely fool-proof. Conjure Animals indicates that these are really fey spirits taking shape as animals, so the DM may not allow you to Speak with Animals That Are Really Fey Spirits. Again, ask the DM.I thought of that too, so I went and checked before I made my comment. Speak With Animals specifically allows you to speak with Beasts, and Conjure Animals conjures Beasts. In fact, it's questionable if they are even also Fey type. Despite the text about fey spirits, it clearly says you're conjuring Beasts in the texts of what you actually conjure, and the stats the DM will have for all Beasts are Beast type. However, I can see a reasonable DM wanting to add the Fey type to them as well.

However, this being the internet, I'm willing to bet there are people that argue they are actually Fey type only, and not Beast Type at all. Which IMO the spell text doesn't support at all.

Edit:

Well, Wild Shape says "your ability to speak...is limited to the capabilities of your beast form."

Personally, I'd probably rule it that you can command animals similar to your beast form. So, a wolf could issue commands to other canine animals. A lion could issue commands to big cats, that sort of thing.I'd probably limit it to very basic commands. Detailed tactical commands wouldn't be possible. But "attack those guys" or "run away" certainly seems reasonable.

[hymer]

What animals can speak verbally? Parrots and Mynah birds can mimic speech, but I'm not sure if that would count as being able to issue verbal commands. Probably should. It seems reasonable.

The phrasing is just regular 5e weaselling. They didn't want to write 'ask your DM', so they wrote something that requires interpretation instead.


I thought of that too, so I went and checked before I made my comment.

I checked before I wrote my guide, and I agree with your interpretation. But the OP needs to account for his or her own DM's interpretation, not ours, brilliant though we are. :smallbiggrin:

[Dr. Cliché]

Edit:
I'd probably limit it to very basic commands. Detailed tactical commands wouldn't be possible. But "attack those guys" or "run away" certainly seems reasonable.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't allow complex tactical commands even if you could speak properly.

I mean, it doesn't matter how clearly you speak if your commands are beyond the scope of the animals' intellect.

[Tanarii]

To be honest, I probably wouldn't allow complex tactical commands even if you could speak properly.

I mean, it doesn't matter how clearly you speak if your commands are beyond the scope of the animals' intellect.
True dat. Also, it's worth noting that all your enemies are going to hear any verbal commands, and you have limited time in a round to issue them. Especially if you're also casting V spells during that time.

[busterswd]

To be honest, I probably wouldn't allow complex tactical commands even if you could speak properly.

I mean, it doesn't matter how clearly you speak if your commands are beyond the scope of the animals' intellect.

They're not actually animals, though. They're fey spirit.

[Tanarii]

They're not actually animals, though. They're fey spirit.They're still Beasts. Says so right in the spell, you conjure X Beasts of CR Y. And the stats for Beast are Beast level intellect. (Except for a few outliers, like Apes.)

Edit: OTOH it says they obey your verbal commands. No caveats on complexity of said commands. So it's a fair interpretation that they are magically capable of obeying relatively more complex commands, because spell says so.

[Dr. Cliché]

They're not actually animals, though. They're fey spirit.

I think whoever wrote this book had a fetish for fey spirits.

Regardless, there's nothing to indicate that the fey spirits are more intelligent than the animals they mimic. So either they take their disguises way too far or they're just really dim to begin with.

[RulesJD]

You do what every Moon Druid should do.

Be a Ghostwise Halfling and communicate telepathically.

[Tanarii]

You do what every Moon Druid should do.

Be a Ghostwise Halfling and communicate telepathically.

Forest Gnome and Conjure Small Beasts.

[Vogonjeltz]

My question is, if I cast conjure animals, then I use wild shape to turn into a Dire Wolf, can I command my minions? Or, since in my new form I can't speak, I can't do that?
Thank you

If the only method for commanding them is verbal, and you can't speak, then no they can't be commanded.

[emacleric]

Ok I understood. Now, some beasts have their own language, like Giant Owl, Giant Eagle and Giant Elk. Do you think that they can use that language to perform "verbal commands"?

[hymer]

Ok I understood. Now, some beasts have their own language, like Giant Owl, Giant Eagle and Giant Elk. Do you think that they can use that language to perform "verbal commands"?

Depends on the DM's interpretation. We know nothing of those languages, except who knows them. They could be more akin to sign language than spoken languages, they could be some combination.
Personally, I'd probably let the big birds speak to their conjured minions if they so wish, but might just decide the vocalizations of the elk are... insufficient.