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mgshamster
2016-04-27, 07:12 AM
I'm reading the book "The Dungeoneers" by Jeffery Russell, a D&D-like adventure book about a group that professionally clears out Dungeons, crypts, or any place that might have an artifact to give to the king who hired them. It's pretty funny.

In it two characters are discussing useful skills required for dungeoneering:

"So, before you joined the expedition, you were a guard? Got any useful skills for dungeoneering? Can you use a sword?"

"No sword, we used big sticks."

"Got any experience with it?"

"Not really, the gate I was at was the live stock entrance. I spent most of the time counting sheep heads."

"Got any other skills that will be useful?"

"What, you mean like lock picking?"

"Heavens, no son. Lock picking isn't useful for searching Dungeons and crypts. No, I mean something useful, like botany or engineering. Experience with machinery. Architecture. Stuff like that."

"But don't you need to pick locks on a chest or a door?"

"Look, son. Their ain't no locked chests in Dungeons. Why lock it? The whole point of keeping it in a dungeon is so it's already behind a maze behind massive doors and traps and guards. You don't need to lock a chest. As for doors, if you're raiding a dungeon looking for artifacts like we are, there are more efficient ways to get through a door than waiting for some fool to pick the lock while praying it ain't trapped."

I thought this was a really cool take on the difference between what us gamers usually think is usual for exploring dungeons/crypts/caves/etc and what is actually useful if it were a real place with real dangers and traps.

In the book, they discuss architecture being a key skill needed for exploring dungeons; it allows you to determine the general shape of the dungeon, easily map/draw it out, determine why specific let's of the dungeon are set up a certain why and how to get around it.

Botony is useful for determining conditions for specific species to grow, whether something is toxic or edible, what ther life forms may be feeding on it, how to use plants found for medicinal use, and more.

Engineering is a big one for figuring out large traps, rotating rooms, hidden machinery, designing tools for overcoming obstacles, etc.

What other interesting uses of skills can you think of for dungeons, beyond what we consider the traditionally used skills (trap removal, opening locks, sneaking, perception)? What interesting skills do you use in your Dungeons. Would you consider designing dungeons for your players that use skills that aren't the traditional gamer's idea of what's needed (or have you done so in the past)?

Democratus
2016-04-27, 07:18 AM
Find familiar is one of the ultimate dungeoneering tools. It's essentially a disposable drone.

You fly it 100' ahead as a remote sensor. Or you simply have it fly around until something destroys it and then re-summon it in an hour to find out what happened.

smcmike
2016-04-27, 07:53 AM
"Yeah, sure, I know botany. Been a farmer me whole life. You got a fruit tree to graft, I'm your man, and if you find something I don't know about bean hybridization, you'd be the first. What's that? In dungeons, you say? You do know that plants need sunlight to grow, right?"

Engineering, sure, particularly if you prefer going through walls rather than doors.

Architecture I'd fit with history - identifying the dungeon goes a long way to identifying the threats in it, and the profit potential.

If you were serious about dungeoneering as a long-term venture, the logistics of getting the loot out and selling it are pretty important. You need an organization man to interface with backers, suppliers, transport, buyers, and locals.

If it's a natural cave, climbing and navigating underground and fitting through tight spaces are useful skills.

Fighting_Ferret
2016-04-27, 08:19 AM
Wow... 5e really has no penalty for losing one's familiar... or animal companion... other than a 10 gold material cost...doesn't even take a spell slot... wow.

Ninja_Prawn
2016-04-27, 08:39 AM
"Yeah, sure, I know botany. Been a farmer me whole life. You got a fruit tree to graft, I'm your man, and if you find something I don't know about bean hybridization, you'd be the first. What's that? In dungeons, you say? You do know that plants need sunlight to grow, right?"

That was my first reaction. It might be somewhat less of an issue in a fantasy setting with magical, below-ground light/energy sources, but still...


If it's a natural cave, climbing and navigating underground and fitting through tight spaces are useful skills.

Agreed. I've been in a couple of caves (and several more disused mines), and the first thing that jumps out is how physical it is. I reckon the main 'skills' are cardiovascular fitness (Athletics), spatial awareness (irrelevant due to metagame), visual acuity (Perception), hand-eye co-ordination (Acrobatics?), reflexes (Dex save) and teamwork (also dealt with by the metagame). And then abilities that would help disarm traps and fight monsters, of course. But to quote Baludur's Gate, "monsters come and go, but fatigue is a constant enemy".

mgshamster
2016-04-27, 08:41 AM
So.. Never seen phosphorescent moss? Fungus? Non-chlorophyll plants? You must not be a botanist - maybe you should take one on your next expedition. :)

smcmike
2016-04-27, 08:47 AM
So.. Never seen phosphorescent moss? Fungus? Non-chlorophyll plants? You must not be a botanist - maybe you should take one on your next exposition. :)

I think you need a mycologist. Really what you need is a dungeon ecologist, if such a thing exists. It's just not likely that standard botany will do you much good.

mgshamster
2016-04-27, 08:56 AM
I think you need a mycologist. Really what you need is a dungeon ecologist, if such a thing exists. It's just not likely that standard botany will do you much good.

I only ever took one botany class; so my own knowledge of it is limited. But as far as specialists go, I'd agree with you.

In terms of D&D, someone with relevant ecological/biological knowledge for dungeons would be useful. I guess the Nature skill would be a catch-all for it in 5e, but it would definitely be cool to have sub-specialities of skills to represent diversity of knowledge.

In my Out of the Abyss game, fungal knowledge has been key to survival, as it's their main source of food and water, supplemented by goodberry and the occasional meat from kills.

Fighting_Ferret
2016-04-27, 09:29 AM
Alas poor Knowledge(Dungeoneering)... it was to soon for you to be taken from us...

Democratus
2016-04-27, 09:32 AM
Wow... 5e really has no penalty for losing one's familiar... or animal companion... other than a 10 gold material cost...doesn't even take a spell slot... wow.

Yeah. It's kinda broken.

I've had to ask my players not to have the spell in my hexcrawl campaign because it totally invalidates too much exploration work.

I may eventually bring back a "system shock" check for when a familiar dies. My current thought is to make 3 Death Saves and die if there are 3 failures.

Fishybugs
2016-04-27, 02:10 PM
I'm reading the book "The Dungeoneers" by Jeffery Russell, a D&D-like adventure book about a group that professionally clears out Dungeons, crypts, or any place that might have an artifact to give to the king who hired them. It's pretty funny.



Let me know what you thought of his book. He's a friend of mine, actually. It's partially based off of some of our old games, and he's working on the sequel now.

Vogonjeltz
2016-04-27, 04:16 PM
Wow... 5e really has no penalty for losing one's familiar... or animal companion... other than a 10 gold material cost...doesn't even take a spell slot... wow.

Well, other than the time and money (and if you don't have ritual spellcasting, the spell slot).

To put it into perspective, 10gp is the same as losing a Shield or wand, it's enough money to buy an entire explorer's pack, it would buy enough rations to survive nearly a month, and it pays for a work-week of a Comfortable Lifestyle.

So, it may seem relatively cheap (compared to the spells that require 2000gp gems), but there's a real opportunity cost every time you have to resummon it. Considering that many adventurers are fortune seekers, I'd be surprised if they were ok with frittering away cash like that.