Favorite PRCs for warriors?

[GSQ|unionjack]

So you build your lion totem barbarian 2/ fighter x spiked chain-improved trip-power attack-knockdown-leap attack-shock trooper-pounce trip charging machine. The core of this build can probably be handled by level 8 or 9, and keeps improving with BAB multipliers.

What comes next? I hear about ur priest and frenzied berserker, but there are some crazy PRC out there, as the recent dive bombing dwarf Iron Chef shows. Personally, I've always wanted to grab Beast Heart Adept for a Wyvern Mount.

What are your favorite ways to get take a build that only needs BaB to 20, for power, flavor, whatever?

[Flickerdart]

I like stapling levels of Divine Crusader on my melee dudes. The cost of entry is very low, and you can go melee dude 7/divine crusader 1/knight of the raven 10/full BAB class 3 and end up with 19/20 BAB and 9th level divine spells.

[Psyren]

What are your favorite ways to get take a build that only needs BaB to 20, for power, flavor, whatever?

Crusader 20
Warblade 20

Any class with Divine Power can get 20 BAB :smalltongue:

(Above assumes 3.5 obviously)

[Eldariel]

I like most of the Tome of Battle prestige classes. Eternal Blade, Ruby Knight Vindicator, Master of the Nine, Bloodclaw Master, Deepstone Sentinel, Shadowsun Ninja, even Bloodstorm Blade. Sadly only Eternal Blade and RKV have full BAB so that limits your options somewhat.

3.0 has some interesting, if ridiculously feat intensive warrior PRCs such as Weapon Master and Master of the Chain. If you have access to that material, it might be worth checking out (keeping in mind that things might require updating here or there). Overall though, with warriors it's often easier to mostly use a mix of base classes; most non-ToB base classes have diminishing returns with additional levels and few of the PRCs are truly worth bothering with. Well, the Large PRCs like Hulking Hurler and Warhulk are of course really strong (Hulking Hurler being totally busted) but they're intentionally not designed for your average PC.

[GSQ|unionjack]

Admittedly, i'm not very experienced in Tome of Battle, and I have to concede the point about Divine Power getting anything a BAB 20. (except it either runs out or DMM takes so many feats you just beat things, minimal bonus combat tricks/feats).

I'm not really going for a specific build or anything here, this isn't for a character. I'm just wondering flavor and interesting mechanics-wise, what sort of martial PRCs do people think are interesting. I'm just much more versed on casters, etc.

[Troacctid]

On Barbarians, I like Champion of Gwynharwyf. Warshaper is also excellent.

[ghanjrho]

Kensai is a favorite of mine.

[Darrin]

Knight of the Middle Circle (Defenders of the Faith). Relatively easy to qualify for, full BAB, Blind-Fight as a bonus feat, good Will save, a wee smidgen of spellcasting (but enough to use a wand of CLW), and Combat Sense +2/+4/+6. This is an insight bonus to attack one creature you designate, no downside or special conditions, just a free attack bonus.

Soldier of Light (Deities & Demigods). One-level dip gets you BAB +1, Turn Undead, and a divine spell slot with a limited but useful spell list. Good way to get Turn Undead into a build when you want full BAB but don't want to waste 4 levels on Paladin. The PrC on the previous page, Justiciar of Taiia, is also interesting: Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat, sneak attack 1d6, 6 skill points, and a divine spell slot (with a horrible spell list). The 2nd level has the same Combat Sense +2 bonus from KotMC.

[Inevitability]

Bear Warrior is ridiculously easy to get into. It also allows you to turn into a bear.

[Doctor Despair]

Whatever knight PrC that grants Supreme Cleave is an old favorite. :)

[StreamOfTheSky]

My favorites are definitely Warshaper and Master of Many Forms (if that counts; Wild Shape Ranger entry). Master Thrower and Bloodstorm Blade are fun for a throwing build and add lots of new abilities.

There really aren't that many martial PrC's that excite me, I usually just mix base classes. I loved Dervish in the past, but later 3E content largely obsoleted it.

[Buufreak]

A build I came up with entirely for flavor-wise was what I thought could be the epitome of a dragon rider*. It ended up Lion Totem Barb 1/ Fighter 2/ Paladin 2/ Dragon Rider (draconom) 5/ Dragon Rider (dragonlance) 10. When the discussion of using a lance while dive charging with all the charging regular stuff came up, we started arguing about how the reach worked, and upon learning the mounted reach rules, we got the mental image of a flying 15x15ft cube that randomly had a sharp barb pointing out of it in all directions. Much laughs were had at this expense.

*epitome meaning as good as I was able to comprehend in my first year of character creation

[Inevitability]

My favorites are definitely Warshaper and Master of Many Forms (if that counts; Wild Shape Ranger entry). Master Thrower and Bloodstorm Blade are fun for a throwing build and add lots of new abilities.

There really aren't that many martial PrC's that excite me, I usually just mix base classes. I loved Dervish in the past, but later 3E content largely obsoleted it.

Warshaper and MoMF aren't full BAB, though.

[Troacctid]

Warshaper and MoMF aren't full BAB, though.

No, they're better. They give you substantial Strength boosts, which increase your attack bonus while also increasing your damage. BAB only increases your attack bonus, not your damage, which is just strictly mathematically inferior.

[Grim Reader]

In addition to the ones that have already been mentioned here, Soul Eater.

[Inevitability]

No, they're better. They give you substantial Strength boosts, which increase your attack bonus while also increasing your damage. BAB only increases your attack bonus, not your damage, which is just strictly mathematically inferior.

BAB also increases your number of attacks per round. And the fact that as a Warshaper/MoMF you'll be using natural weapons is not a reason to ignore that: mouthpick weapons exist and can allow you to make 3-4 weapon attacks per round in exchange for a single bite attack.

[Willie the Duck]

I like stapling levels of Divine Crusader on my melee dudes. The cost of entry is very low, and you can go melee dude 7/divine crusader 1/knight of the raven 10/full BAB class 3 and end up with 19/20 BAB and 9th level divine spells.

Which domain for the Divine Crusader? I always thought about playing around with that, but never did.


Bear Warrior is ridiculously easy to get into. It also allows you to turn into a bear.

Which is really fun, and powerful when you look at it in isolation. However, you really really need an accommodating DM to help you get the magic items that will work, since even druid tricks like taking off your amulets, etc. shapechanging, and then putting them back on do not work since you only shapechange when you rage.


BAB also increases your number of attacks per round. And the fact that as a Warshaper/MoMF you'll be using natural weapons is not a reason to ignore that: mouthpick weapons exist and can allow you to make 3-4 weapon attacks per round in exchange for a single bite attack.

Reminds me of when Savage Species came out, I saw the tail blade exotic weapon proficiency, realized that all 3 of a lizardman's natural attacks would still work on top of a full attack. Bam! Next character-- two headed lizardman with EWP: tail blade, improved multiattack, etc. etc. Of course this was 2002 or so, so no pounce and most of those attacks were going to waste.

[Flickerdart]

Which domain for the Divine Crusader? I always thought about playing around with that, but never did.
My go-to is Animal domain, because (with some obscene feat-wrangling) you can go Fighter 6/Soldier of Light 1/Divine Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 1/Prestige Ranger 1 and get both ranger spells and paladin spells. Then you take Contemplative 1 for whatever domain you like - I like War, because you can take Holy Warrior and add +9 damage to all your attacks (even ranged attacks, hello Zen archery!) while you're sitting on a 9th level spell.

[Darrin]

My go-to is Animal domain, because (with some obscene feat-wrangling) you can go Fighter 6/Soldier of Light 1/Divine Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 1/Prestige Ranger 1 and get both ranger spells and paladin spells.

Are you handwaving alignment requirements? Soldier of Light requires NG, Prestige Paladin requires LG.

[Flickerdart]

Are you handwaving alignment requirements? Soldier of Light requires NG, Prestige Paladin requires LG.
You can safely start as Neutral Good and change to Lawful Good later:



A soldier of the light who ceases to be good or who violates the tenets of his faith loses all special abilities and spells, and may not progress in levels as a soldier.

[GSQ|unionjack]

Yes, Holy warrior looks amazing. I haven't had a chance, but I was just working out a roguish skills focused cleric that would nab holy warrior and a couple persisted buffs (DIvine power duh, and maybe the +10 dex one) to be moderately useful with a bow or sword or whatever. Holy warrior with a +x collision force bow, minimum +14 per arrow seemed nice.

I've basically been reading all of Tome of Battle since I posted this thread, I was roughly familiar on the concept but not the specifics. I looks like you can take 6 levels of whatever and still get 9th level maneuvers as a warblade, but would having all these feats be that awesome? I mean you would just want to focus on maneuvers that used full attacks or charge, basically?

Side note, having seen the shadow blade skills, is there any reason you would ever play rogue over swordsage anymore? Or rogue 6/swordsage 14 for skills? I mean, you can nab sneak attack 15d6 from Death in the Dark anyways, not to mention other bonuses, and it looks like tiger strike school and some others make TWF really viable.

[Inevitability]

You can safely start as Neutral Good and change to Lawful Good later:

That's interesting, and I'm pretty sure it'd work even if you rule the CW rules on prerequisites to apply to all classes.

[Troacctid]

BAB also increases your number of attacks per round. And the fact that as a Warshaper/MoMF you'll be using natural weapons is not a reason to ignore that: mouthpick weapons exist and can allow you to make 3-4 weapon attacks per round in exchange for a single bite attack.
Okay, so let's do the math. I take Warshaper 4 and lose a point of BAB, but gain +4 Strength. Let's assume my DM is conservative and I only get one morphic weapon at a time, so I get a secondary gore attack. That's +2 to hit, +2-3 damage, and one extra attack.

Meanwhile, you take a random full BAB class for those four levels, so you have +1 BAB compared to me. That's +1 to hit and 20% of an extra attack.

[Inevitability]

Okay, so let's do the math. I take Warshaper 4 and lose a point of BAB, but gain +4 Strength. Let's assume my DM is conservative and I only get one morphic weapon at a time, so I get a secondary gore attack. That's +2 to hit, +2-3 damage, and one extra attack.

Meanwhile, you take a random full BAB class for those four levels, so you have +1 BAB compared to me. That's +1 to hit and 20% of an extra attack.

Of course the point of BAB will, in a vacuum, be less useful. When it makes the difference between three or four attacks, however, you'll want the point of BAB, if only because the 'normal' extra attack isn't made at a -5 penalty and reduced damage.


But, as you may not have noticed, the OP explicitly stated the build in question had to reach 20 BAB.

[Pyromancer999]

If you're Large or larger and don't mind being a meathead, War Hulk isn't a bad consideration. Doesn't advance your BAB, but does grant you +2 Strength at each level, for +20 Strength over 10 levels. Also, if you want to expand on the Rock Throwing abilities of that class, you can always go and take some levels in Bloodstorm Blade if you're an initiator, as War Hulk does say that the rocks thrown count as Thrown Weapons(that deal 2d8 damage). Throw rocks that return to you and eventually throw rocks at everyone you can see as a full-round action. Best part of the rocks are that it explicitly says you use Strength instead of Dexterity for the ranged attack, so you don't have to worry about having a high Dexterity score(not that it's not useful anyways).

Just to note something and repeat an earlier point: While you technically end up with 15 BAB at level 20(assuming first 5 levels are in full BAB classes), you effectively have +20, except for the iterative attacks, but do have more damage. Still, Bloodstorm Blade's capstone that lets you attack everyone you can see as a full-round action is usable for as many Iron Heart maneuvers as you're willing to sacrifice.

[GSQ|unionjack]

But, as you may not have noticed, the OP explicitly stated the build in question had to reach 20 BAB.

That may have been a poor choice of language on my part. I wouldn't say i'm too concerned about those kind of specifics, this really came up because I was playing with a cleric build. Limiting myself to PRCs that advanced spellcasting for at least 17 levels to get 9th level spells, I was musing on how a fighter wouldn't have so much to worry about when choosing PRCs.

I'm also generally oblivious to what those expanded options may be, there's a lot of weird stuff out there. I suppose any martial base character would want their 4th iterative, though?

[Psyren]

I'm also generally oblivious to what those expanded options may be, there's a lot of weird stuff out there. I suppose any martial base character would want their 4th iterative, though?

Yes, because if you don't get it by 20th level you never will. BAB stops advancing at 20.

Having said that, you only need a minimum of +16 BAB to get your 4th iterative, so that gives you a lot more design space to make interesting builds with.

[Troacctid]

Of course the point of BAB will, in a vacuum, be less useful. When it makes the difference between three or four attacks, however, you'll want the point of BAB, if only because the 'normal' extra attack isn't made at a -5 penalty and reduced damage.
The "normal" extra attack is made at a minimum penalty of -5, and if it's the difference between three and four attacks, it's at -15. I haven't done the math, but the extra -10 seems like it should reduce your damage significantly more than losing half your Strength bonus. And then next level the warshaper gets the extra attack anyway.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Eldariel
3.0 has some interesting, if ridiculously feat intensive warrior PRCs such as Weapon Master and Master of the Chain.

Weapon Master has seven different feats required, including "Expertise," which I assume should have been Combat Expertise.

But for all those feats, does it really offer that much? Maximizing base damage is nice, nudging up the crit multiplier also nice, but at first glance it doesn't seem to do much else. Is this designed to synergize especially well with monks?

--And on that note, would it work well with the Pathfinder Unchained monk?

[Psyren]

--And on that note, would it work well with the Pathfinder Unchained monk?

Anything that doesn't advance your ki pool, flurry or style strikes is probably not worth it.

[Lans]

Weapon Master has seven different feats required, including "Expertise," which I assume should have been Combat Expertise.
?

Expertise in 3.0 was changed to Combat Expertise in the edition change

[Eldariel]

Weapon Master has seven different feats required, including "Expertise," which I assume should have been Combat Expertise.

But for all those feats, does it really offer that much? Maximizing base damage is nice, nudging up the crit multiplier also nice, but at first glance it doesn't seem to do much else. Is this designed to synergize especially well with monks?

--And on that note, would it work well with the Pathfinder Unchained monk?

I mean, compared to what? It's no Incantatrix, but it does something no 3.5 class does. It gets both, increased crit multiplier and crit chance as a linear ability stacking with Improved Critical so that's pretty cool damage-wise and if you get big base dice (such as Unarmed Strikes plus size increases), the maximization can be particularly huge, even more-so on your already-impressive crits. Crit multiplier is only few times per day but crit chance is a flat addition. And standard action Whirlwind is distinctly less useless than full-round, and extra AoOs never hurt particularly for a reach build (even if they're derived off a stat you probably haven't invested too much in).

[Mr Adventurer]

Picking up on something mentioned earlier, could you go Paladin 4/Ordained Champion 1/something 2/Divine Crusader 1/Ordained Champion +4 plus something that gives decent BAB and 6 out of 8 divine spellcasting increases; choose War as your Divine Crusader Domain and have all your spells Quickened for free by Ordained Champion?

EDIT: No, apparently not since the relevant Ordained Champion abilities explicitly apply only to Cleric spells cast using the modified spontaneous casting ability. Bah!

[gorfnab]

My go-to is Animal domain, because (with some obscene feat-wrangling) you can go Fighter 6/Soldier of Light 1/Divine Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin 1/Prestige Ranger 1 and get both ranger spells and paladin spells. Then you take Contemplative 1 for whatever domain you like - I like War, because you can take Holy Warrior and add +9 damage to all your attacks (even ranged attacks, hello Zen archery!) while you're sitting on a 9th level spell.

Divine Crusader of the Sovereign Host
Crusader 7/ Divine Crusader 3/ Sovereign Speaker 9/ Crusader, Ordained Champion, or X full BAB 1
9th level spells, a 10 domain spell list, 16 BAB, and some maneuvers

[Waazraath]

Telling (about 3.x) that most of the reactions here when asked for good PRC's for warriors end up being spellcasters :smallsmile:

To add my 2 cents:

In the games I played, I really enjoyed:
- Disciple of Thrym: great warrior prestige class, that adds good class abilities that directly strengten the 'warrior' part of a build, not with spellcasting but with "hit things harder" (like powerful grip, add 2x str bonus instead of 1.5x). But also a nice spell list, with good flavour, 1-5 spells, including a summon giants that is a lvl 8 wiz/sor spell, shivering touch, and some BFC. D10 HP, full BAB, really nice.
- Master of Many Forms. Already been mentioned, very strong, and versatile, especially compared to other spell less warriors
- Jade Phoenix Mage: full BAB arcane caster / maneuver user from Tome of Battle, nice.
- Suel Arcanamach: nice half spell caster, with a decent chasis and good spells, to add some versatility to a warrior.
- Abjurant champion: ultimate gish PRC.
- No prestige classes, but: warblade and crusader. After having let's say 6 levels in fighter, monk, barbarian, or suchlike to get a specific build, continuing (or just dipping) in warblade or crusader is often better then many prestige classes (and the option when wanting to stay 'martial' and not switching to spellcaster).

On my list of 'wanting to play somewhere in the future': the hellreaver, knight of the weave, shadowbane inquisitor, warshaper and planar champion (an imo undervalued prestige class for warriors, full bab, no spellcasting, but interesting abilities that allow you to see invisibility, attack ethereal, become ethereal, and planeshift.

[StreamOfTheSky]

BAB also increases your number of attacks per round. And the fact that as a Warshaper/MoMF you'll be using natural weapons is not a reason to ignore that: mouthpick weapons exist and can allow you to make 3-4 weapon attacks per round in exchange for a single bite attack.

The thread was asking for PrC's for warriors. Not all warriors have full BAB, quite a few have medium BAB and still no spellcasting. Warshaper and MoMF are great classes for someone who wants to be good in melee, and also open up other options out of combat (mainly MoMF there).

And I've never used mouth pick, seems cheesy. Or Savage Species in general. One of the few books I outright hate as a whole (only other one with that distinction is C.Psionic, for the exact opposite reasons)

[daremetoidareyo]

Drunken master is a personal favorite. You got squicky charge, which is highly convenient for every build. Especially if you make a passionate rail against arbitrary alignment BS and can get barbarian pounce all up in your house. Improvised weapons are the funnest kind of weapons. Simply put, you can do things with drunken master that no other prestige class can. And most of those things include wielding sentient creatures as weapons.

[Sword-Geass]

Some prcs that haven't been mentioned yet:
Revenant blade: elf only, gets you two feats that you can change each day, and that don't require prereqs. from a list, which includes some goodies like great cleave. The capstone lets you treat both ends of a double scimitar as two handed.

Exotic weapon master: a posible update for Weapon master, gives some tricks that depend on your weapon, one allows you to consider a one handed weapon as two handed, both for strenght to damage and poder attack, dual wield it and you achieve the same as the revenant. Other interesting trick is the flurry one.

Disciple of dispater: THE crit prc. Triple your crit range, and stacks with imp. critical. Nothing beats this if you want crits, but it's evil only.

Pd: sorry for any mistakes, posted from my phone, wich is in spanish and keeps correcting words.

[Mr Adventurer]

Divine Crusader of the Sovereign Host
Crusader 7/ Divine Crusader 3/ Sovereign Speaker 9/ Crusader, Ordained Champion, or X full BAB 1
9th level spells, a 10 domain spell list, 16 BAB, and some maneuvers

Wouldn't you end up with a character with 9 Domains they can't do anything with, as they have no Domain spell slots?

[Inevitability]

Wouldn't you end up with a character with 9 Domains they can't do anything with, as they have no Domain spell slots?

Complete Divine has some information on non-clerics getting domains.

[Elder_Basilisk]

In 3.5, I was a fan of Pious Templar--especially when combined with monk/rogue and paladin. Evasion, mettle, and good saves eliminates a lot of problems from enemy magic users and weapon specialization enables you to take melee weapon mastery. Smite progression and what is essentially paladin spellcasting are icing on the cake.

[Willie the Duck]

Telling (about 3.x) that most of the reactions here when asked for good PRC's for warriors end up being spellcasters :smallsmile:

There's not much to say. Batman wizards and CoDzilla really are that much better -- in the rare instance where someone still wants to DM 3.5 without some kind of limiters.


In 3.5, I was a fan of Pious Templar--especially when combined with monk/rogue and paladin. Evasion, mettle, and good saves eliminates a lot of problems from enemy magic users and weapon specialization enables you to take melee weapon mastery. Smite progression and what is essentially paladin spellcasting are icing on the cake.

If your DM declares their casting to be equivalent to paladin casting, and thus can use that feat which allows you to fast-cast the spells, then it gets pretty darn good.

[Windrammer]

I like stapling levels of Divine Crusader on my melee dudes. The cost of entry is very low, and you can go melee dude 7/divine crusader 1/knight of the raven 10/full BAB class 3 and end up with 19/20 BAB and 9th level divine spells.

It's really disappointing how anyone asking about what kind of cool warriors he can make is hit by "make a spellcaster!" as an answer.

"How can I make this fighter better?"

"Be a wizard with polymorph!"

[Psyren]

It's really disappointing how anyone asking about what kind of cool warriors he can make is hit by "make a spellcaster!" as an answer.

"How can I make this fighter better?"

"Be a wizard with polymorph!"

"Don't hate the player(s), hate the game" :smalltongue:

Facetiousness aside, I do agree with you - I derive a certain amount of satisfaction from making non-spellcaster martial characters. Generally they still include magic in some form (Metamorph Alchemists, Qinggong Monks, Totemists etc) but there's a level of challenge inherent in getting to or close to T3 without spells. (Note that I didn't say "without magic.")

[Windrammer]

There's not much to say. Batman wizards and CoDzilla really are that much better -- in the rare instance where someone still wants to DM 3.5 without some kind of limiters.

It doesn't matter what is "better", the prevailing attitude of these forums and the reality of the DnD community are very different. Not everyone is seeking to play the most optimally powerful character. Some people are actually playing a role playing game. The kind of people who respond to threads like these with "make a spellcaster!" wouldn't last a day in most of the groups I play in, they'd be kicked out immediately. We're trying to emulate some classic heroic fantasy and some flying anthropomorphic animal with a spiked chain and a dozen wands comes around? No thanks, we're actually intending to have a cool, immersive campaign.

[Troacctid]

I mean, what non-spellcasting prestige class would you pick that would scale appropriately into the later stages of the game?

[Sahleb]

It doesn't matter what is "better", the prevailing attitude of these forums and the reality of the DnD community are very different. Not everyone is seeking to play the most optimally powerful character. Some people are actually playing a role playing game. The kind of people who respond to threads like these with "make a spellcaster!" wouldn't last a day in most of the groups I play in, they'd be kicked out immediately. We're trying to emulate some classic heroic fantasy and some flying anthropomorphic animal with a spiked chain and a dozen wands comes around? No thanks, we're actually intending to have a cool, immersive campaign.

The question was good or favorite prestige classes for warriors. Some people answer that question with spellcaster prestige classes. That seems perfectly valid to me.

Honestly, while you liking noncasters is fine, why are you crapping all over other people's fun?

Anyway, warrior prcs that I like:

-Kensai
-Eternal Blade
-Frenzied Berserker (Although you gotta keep the will save up)
-Bear Warrior
-Champion of Gwynharwyf
-War Mind (This and Kensai are probably the only ones you could reasonably graft onto a fighter and still have it feel like one)
-Shadowbane Inquisitor
-Stalker of Karesh, for favored enemy(evil)
-Dervish (preferably strength-based, with a big hulking falchion)
-Soulbolt
-Hellreaver
-Blade Dancer

Also;
-Ordained Champion
-Suel Arcanamach
-Jade Phoenix Mage
-Swiftblade (often elven wizard 6/swiftblade 10/something else 4, built to look like the wizards of WHFB)
-Raumathari Battlemage
-Ruby-Knight Vindicator
-Bard/Druid/Spelldancer/Arcane Hierophant/Sublime Chord 1/Fochulan Lyrist 9 for a very interesting warrior-mage.
-Battle Sorcerer 7/Aburant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8 has a certain charm.

[Willie the Duck]

It doesn't matter what is "better", the prevailing attitude of these forums and the reality of the DnD community are very different. Not everyone is seeking to play the most optimally powerful character. Some people are actually playing a role playing game. The kind of people who respond to threads like these with "make a spellcaster!" wouldn't last a day in most of the groups I play in, they'd be kicked out immediately. We're trying to emulate some classic heroic fantasy and some flying anthropomorphic animal with a spiked chain and a dozen wands comes around? No thanks, we're actually intending to have a cool, immersive campaign.

So you apparently completely missed my comment about no one actually wanting to play a 3.5 game with tier 1 characters without limiters, despite actually quoting it, huh?

[Waazraath]

There's not much to say. Batman wizards and CoDzilla really are that much better -- in the rare instance where someone still wants to DM 3.5 without some kind of limiters.

True.


I mean, what non-spellcasting prestige class would you pick that would scale appropriately into the later stages of the game?

I know this comment wasn't adressed to me, but I think most of the non-spellcasting classes I mentioned above scale enough to deal with level appropriate threads: the MoMF (can put them on a paladin and ranger, with the right ACF), all the base classes of ToB used as prestige class, hellreaver, planar champion, warshaper. All give access to the kind of special abilities needed at the higher levels (fly, teleport, shapechage, regeneration, planeshift, etherealness, see invisibility, etc.).

[Mr Adventurer]

I tried playing a Planar Champion once - they're garbage. Sure, the class looks cool, but you don't actually get anything good. If all their abilities were at-will, and the class had a couple of other minor bonuses to make them more suited to the planes, then I might be able to see it.

But also, I mean, the Outer Planes aren't even coterminous with the Ethereal.

[Arael666]

Warshaper and MoMF aren't full BAB, though.


No, they're better. They give you substantial Strength boosts, which increase your attack bonus while also increasing your damage. BAB only increases your attack bonus, not your damage, which is just strictly mathematically inferior.

Warshaper is the best of two worlds, since most people (I believe) break by lvl 4. The 5th level only adds the capstone (it doesn't even increase saves...), so with 4 levels in it you only lose 1 BAB and get the +4 str and con.

[Waazraath]

I tried playing a Planar Champion once - they're garbage. Sure, the class looks cool, but you don't actually get anything good. If all their abilities were at-will, and the class had a couple of other minor bonuses to make them more suited to the planes, then I might be able to see it.

But also, I mean, the Outer Planes aren't even coterminous with the Ethereal.

Would you care to eleborate? I'm curious about the campaign / circumstances, because as far as I can see, by the time you qualify for planar champion, you already should have covered your martial basics (wether that would be pounce / shock trooper, chaintrip, or whatever). Adding a class that gives among others: full BaB, 2 good saves, 4 skillpoints/lvl from a good list, see invisibility at will, ethereal jaunt 3/day, planeshift and damage reduction hardly seems 'garbage'. It does what it must do, and then does some extra. But as I said, it's on my list to play, so I might miss something.