Death Domain woes

[CrackedChair]

Alright, my d&d players are starting another campaign, and the Pc's, including me, have decided to be a Cleric dominated party.

One of us chose life, then war, then I chose death... Or I was, honestly.

Problem is, clerics who serve a deity of death are almost always evil, and thus I want to avoid that, since we are a good-aligned party.

Is there any way I can remedy this to allow myself to play a smooth game as a Death Domain Cleric?

[hymer]

I believe (pun not intended) that Kelemvor of the Forgotten Realms is LN and grants the death domain. That ought to be quite workable.

[Temperjoke]

Alright, my d&d players are starting another campaign, and the Pc's, including me, have decided to be a Cleric dominated party.

One of us chose life, then war, then I chose death... Or I was, honestly.

Problem is, clerics who serve a deity of death are almost always evil, and thus I want to avoid that, since we are a good-aligned party.

Is there any way I can remedy this to allow myself to play a smooth game as a Death Domain Cleric?

Well, it's not so much that the deity they serve is always evil, it's just that the Death Domain is built pretty evil in 5e. That's something I don't necessarily like, since Death isn't guaranteed evil.

EDIT: as mentioned, Kelemvor is LN, and is pretty much against undead, which is heavily used in the Death Domain clerics.

[CrackedChair]

Well, it's not so much that the deity they serve is always evil, it's just that the Death Domain is built pretty evil in 5e. That's something I don't necessarily like, since Death isn't guaranteed evil.

EDIT: as mentioned, Kelemvor is LN, and is pretty much against undead, which is heavily used in the Death Domain clerics.

Yes, but clerics under the death domain can receive the Animate Dead spell, which really begs the question as to why Kelemvor would grant such a thing.

I've decided on being a Death Cleric again, but eh, might want to watch the truly evil spells granted.

[BiPolar]

Yes, but clerics under the death domain can receive the Animate Dead spell, which really begs the question as to why Kelemvor would grant such a thing.

I've decided on being a Death Cleric again, but eh, might want to watch the truly evil spells granted.

What about someone like Anubis? Not evil, but associated with Death?

[Temperjoke]

Yes, but clerics under the death domain can receive the Animate Dead spell, which really begs the question as to why Kelemvor would grant such a thing.

I've decided on being a Death Cleric again, but eh, might want to watch the truly evil spells granted.

Hence why I don't like how the Domain is built. :)

[CrackedChair]

What about someone like Anubis? Not evil, but associated with Death?

Considering that as far as deities go, we are rather uncreative and this are using the deities in the Greek, Egyptian, Celtic, and Norse lores.

Anubis is prob going to be my pick, since it goes for I need for my character.

[BiPolar]

Considering that as far as deities go, we are rather uncreative and this are using the deities in the Greek, Egyptian, Celtic, and Norse lores.

Anubis is prob going to be my pick, since it goes for I need for my character.

May the Jackal-God guide you :) He's my paladin of vengeance's God, too.

[Falcon X]

Probably my favorite deity is Wee-Jas if you can have a Greyhawk god.

But for the central question, I would personally just ask the DM if there are any substitutions you can make for class features you deem a bit too evil. Otherwise, just reflavor it.

[Biggstick]

I believe (pun not intended) that Kelemvor of the Forgotten Realms is LN and grants the death domain. That ought to be quite workable.

Kelemvor is pretty fantastic as a death god. Another death god that falls under LN in Forgotten Realms is Jergal. As for the granting of "evil" spells, you can just not cast the raise dead spells. The only spells that are of questionable taste on the Death Domain list are Animate Dead and Vampiric Touch. Just don't use Animate Dead, and if Vampiric touch bothers you that much, don't use that one either.

A majority of the Necromancy spells aren't "evil" or bad in Kelemvor's eyes. The only ones that he'd look down on are the ones that turn things undead.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

I'm not even sure Vampiric Touch would have to be that much of a problem. You have other damaging spells on your domain list (Ray of Sickness, Blight, etc.) so why is inflicting damage while healing yourself evil? Don't get me wrong, I see how you could see/describe it as being evil, I just don't think you necessarily have to.

You could also spin Animate Dead as a less evil spell if you needed to. Use it on the bodies of evil creatures/characters. You could say that their evil souls would be tormented for their sins, but The Death God is allowing (and or forcing) them to serve him/her/you as penance/repentance before they receive peace in death.

If need be, you could talk to your DM about changing some of the spells granted. Speak With Dead and Spirit Guardians are already cleric spells but could definitely work. For stuff outside of your class, you could also loot at Fear (death, evil or not, is a pretty universal fear), Stinking Cloud (kind of in line with Ray of Sickness) or Slow (described as the chill of the grave or something) as options for level 3s.

[CoggieRagabash]

Refluffing and swapping out spells is certainly the easiest way to deal with this. Is your DM open to homebrew? I know there's a Repose domain someone's been working on over on /r/UnearthedArcana.

[Celcey]

I'd say refluffing is your best option, because mechanically speaking, there's not really anything evil about it. Personally, I think it's silly that undead like zombies have alignment when they're literally just flesh-robots. (And not the sentient kind, either.) This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482201-Societies-Developing-Alongside-Supernatural-Creatures) thread gives some insight into what a society that develops alongside undead might be like, and I think can be very useful if you're trying to put a Good spin on it.

[LVOD]

I don't think there's really that much of an issue with animate dead (unless your deity is openly opposed to it obviously). I mean if your deity has ultimate domain over death, animating some corpses to use as bodyguards for your chosen doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Its not like you're bending someone to do things against their will, you're just borrowing their meat after they're no longer using it. A higher being probably views it the same way as 'animate object.'

[CrackedChair]

I don't think there's really that much of an issue with animate dead (unless your deity is openly opposed to it obviously). I mean if your deity has ultimate domain over death, animating some corpses to use as bodyguards for your chosen doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Its not like you're bending someone to do things against their will, you're just borrowing their meat after they're no longer using it. A higher being probably views it the same way as 'animate object.'

That's... Actually a good point. And if I'm done with it, I can just destroy the corpse, freeing it once I'm done...

[uraniumrooster]

If you are playing in the Forgotten Realms and want a lore friendly non-evil death god, and you don't mind being a Ghostwise Halfling, you could look at Urogalan. He's a cyclical god of earth and death. Sort of a "the earth gives us life, and our bodies give life back when we die" approach.

[Oramac]

You could also take the "I study death to preserve life" approach. You could probably pull it off with a neutral deity.

[Sception]

If you're looking at classical pantheons, then hades is a non-evil option, being at worst neutral. Yeah, he was a bit of a jerk sometimes, but was easily the least cruel and caprecious of the big thee deities in that pantheon. As for egyptian gods, half of them could be reasonably called death gods in some way, Ancient Egypt was a pretty death oriented culture, and they were mostly reasonable by old times deity standards.

And there's very little overtly evil about the death domain. Most of its abilities just enhance necrotic or necromantic attacks. Apart from a single spell on their domain list, a spell any other cleric could memorize and cast to exactly the same effect, they don't even have any abilities relevant to creating or controlling undead (which may or may not be an inherently evil act depending on your dm).

[Joe the Rat]

Being a soul-sucking, blight-inflicting, necrotic font of doom is fine for "not evil." The only thing that gets weird is the animate dead / create undead line. If you want to be the "not raising an army of bones" death type, see if you can swap AD for a different necromancy domain spell.

[Temperjoke]

If you're looking at classical pantheons, then hades is a non-evil option, being at worst neutral. Yeah, he was a bit of a jerk sometimes, but was easily the least cruel and caprecious of the big thee deities in that pantheon. As for egyptian gods, half of them could be reasonably called death gods in some way, Ancient Egypt was a pretty death oriented culture, and they were mostly reasonable by old times deity standards.

And there's very little overtly evil about the death domain. Most of its abilities just enhance necrotic or necromantic attacks. Apart from a single spell on their domain list, a spell any other cleric could memorize and cast to exactly the same effect, they don't even have any abilities relevant to creating or controlling undead (which may or may not be an inherently evil act depending on your dm).

Here's (http://zenosanalytic.tumblr.com/post/98327027683/chazkeats-autisticenjolras-hades-isnt-a) a interesting/funny way of thinking about Hades.


I know linking domains to particular deities is a standard thing, but I wonder if uncoupling them would be better in the long run? The PHB mentions that almost any non-evil deities could actually grant the Life domain. IT might make things easier for players in the long run.

[Dr. Cliché]

“Tʜᴇʀᴇ's ɴᴏ ᴊᴜsᴛɪᴄᴇ, ᴛʜᴇʀᴇ's ᴊᴜsᴛ ᴍᴇ."
~Death

(from Mort by Terry Pratchett)


I'd say refluffing is your best option, because mechanically speaking, there's not really anything evil about it. Personally, I think it's silly that undead like zombies have alignment when they're literally just flesh-robots. (And not the sentient kind, either.)

Agreed. Even creating them doesn't seem like an objectively evil act. Some people are bothered about what happens to their (or their relatives') earthly remains, others don't care. The latter may well express surprise at the idea that anyone would object to them animating some bones or corpses. Their owners clearly aren't using them, and this way they can do some good even after death.


I don't think there's really that much of an issue with animate dead (unless your deity is openly opposed to it obviously). I mean if your deity has ultimate domain over death, animating some corpses to use as bodyguards for your chosen doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Its not like you're bending someone to do things against their will, you're just borrowing their meat after they're no longer using it. A higher being probably views it the same way as 'animate object.'

This.

[Slipperychicken]

Problem is, clerics who serve a deity of death are almost always evil, and thus I want to avoid that, since we are a good-aligned party.

Is there any way I can remedy this to allow myself to play a smooth game as a Death Domain Cleric?

It's a villainous class option. It's for villains, not heroes.