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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Summoner (Eidolon) Class



Kryx
2016-04-28, 04:10 PM
http://i.imgur.com/d5ShkZb.png
http://www.naturalcrit.com/homebrew/share/rJOLlx_g (http://www.naturalcrit.com/homebrew/share/rJOLlx_g)


Reddit feedback: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/4gv2mc/summoner_eidolon_with_3_archetypes/

I've been working on this Summoner version for about a week now.
Features:

Warlock casting

Custom spell list
4 new spells

Eidolon

Multiple forms (Biped, Quadruped, Serpentine, Tauric)
Multiple types (Aberration, Beast, Celestial, Dragon, Elemental, Fey, Fiend, Monstrosity, Ooze)
Expansive list of evolutions that scale as Warlock invocations.

3 archetypes

Commander - work in tandem with your eidolon
Evolutionist - evolve yourself as well
Synthesist - merge forms with your eidolon and rampage!

Rough DPR calculation (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d-9xDdath8kX_v7Rpts9JFIJwIG3X0-dDUtfax14NT0/edit#gid=1913855077) (see line 450-504) that aims to be about 84-88% of the DPR of a Fighter GWM - near the same as a Bladelock. I plan to revise this a bit as I better understand some common evolution choices. Also see "Balance" page at the bottom of houserules - seems like Synthesist summoner needs a boost between 3-5.

It seems long, but is 5 pages for the class, 1 page for the eidolon, 4 pages for evolutions, 1 page for spell list, 1 page for new spells and notes.

Please provide any feedback for how it can be improved.

PotatoGolem
2016-04-28, 11:00 PM
This is so cool. Totally love it. The only bit I don't like is the bit about determining the eidolon's stats. It really needs more guidance. Do you use the same point buy as a PC? Or the same array/rolling method? Or is it supposed to be worse? This can significantly alter the balance of the class, so it needs to be spelled out more.

Kryx
2016-04-29, 09:44 AM
This is so cool. Totally love it. The only bit I don't like is the bit about determining the eidolon's stats. It really needs more guidance. Do you use the same point buy as a PC? Or the same array/rolling method? Or is it supposed to be worse? This can significantly alter the balance of the class, so it needs to be spelled out more.
This is vague so the DM can determine which method. I would suggest point buy or standard array. Rolling stats is bad in general. There are rules at the bottom for stats higher than the summoner's int score.
Overall treat is as a PC - it can use hd as normal as well.

Let me know how I can clear up this wording.

Also added link to the Reddit feedback.

Kellendros95
2016-04-29, 05:17 PM
I really like the idea of this class. But I noticed a few flaws too.
First, I can't understand, why you chose warlock's spellcasting. May be, half-casting will be better.
Second, we all know Beastmaster sucks. But there is the reason, why Wizards made this archetype like it is. If you can make an action each turn and have a companion who makes an action each turn, you gain twice a lot spotlight, even if it is ballanced in the meaning of power level.
And third, I found some mistakes and ambiguities in the text. I apologize in advance, my english isn't good, so may be there is some my mistakes in this list.


You may cast a spell with a target of “self” on your eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on yourself. Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.

"You can cast a summoner spell with a target of "self" on your eidolon as a spell with a range of touch."


Details for creating your eidolon are detailed at the of the the class description.

"at the end"


While observing through your eidolon's senses, a summoner is blind to your their surroundings.

"you are blind to your own surroundings"


At 6th level, as an action, a summoner can call their eidolon to their side as the dimension door spell.

"his eidolon"


You are incapacitated, but gain full control of your eidolon's actions, can perceive through its senses, and can speak through its voice.

Incapacitated creature can't take actions, so may be you should formulate it differently.


At 5th level when an eidolon takes the Attack action on its turn, it can use a bonus action to attack with a different attack.

This is missed in class table.


At 7th level, whenever the synthesist is fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use the Maker's Call ability to dimension door affecting the fused synthesist and eidolon.

Unclear.

May be I'll get to the rest later.

Kryx
2016-04-30, 10:51 AM
First, I can't understand, why you chose warlock's spellcasting. May be, half-casting will be better.
It models the PF situation very very well. In PF the summoner moved some higher level spells to earlier levels so it can cast them within it's 6th level casting.

Warlock model gives spellcasting that scales to 5th level at the normal rate as well as some higher level spells. Full casting is out of the question due to the power of the Eidolon. Half casting scales too slowly unless I reinvent it. At which point the summoner has no higher level spells.
If you have a better solution I'm all ears. It'd be nice to have some utility spells, but 5th level casting per paladin scales far too slowly and doesn't have higher level spells.


Second, we all know Beastmaster sucks. But there is the reason, why Wizards made this archetype like it is. If you can make an action each turn and have a companion who makes an action each turn, you gain twice a lot spotlight, even if it is ballanced in the meaning of power level.
The beastmaster, while balanced numerically, is horrid to control.
The Eidolon, while balanced numerically, is enjoyable to control.

Twice the spotlight is true for many spells as well - summoning spells for example


And third, I found some mistakes and ambiguities in the text. I apologize in advance, my english isn't good, so may be there is some my mistakes in this list.

"You can cast a summoner spell with a target of "self" on your eidolon as a spell with a range of touch."
Reworded to "You may target your eidolon instead of yourself when casting a summoner spell with a target of “self”. Treat is as a range of touch."
Thanks!


"at the end"
Reworded to "Details for creating your eidolon are at the end of the class description."
Thanks!


"you are blind to your own surroundings"
Changed to "While observing through your eidolon's senses you are blinded."


"his eidolon"
Their is a proper gender neutral way of referring to an individual.
Replaced all cases of "his eidolon" with "its eidolon". Changed this case to "a summoner can call its eidolon to their side"


Incapacitated creature can't take actions, so may be you should formulate it differently.
The summoner isn't taking actions - the eidolon is. If the summoner was taking the actions then there could be no multiattack. If you have suggestions for how to clean this up let me know.


This is missed in class table.
Yup - forgot to add the 5th level relationship feature. Added. Thanks!


Unclear.
Reworded to "At 7th level, whenever the synthesist is fused with its eidolon, the synthesist can use the Maker's Call ability to teleport as the dimension door spell, transporting the fused form."


Thanks for the feedback! Let me know if you have a different idea for spellcasting.

Cognomore
2017-09-03, 04:39 PM
I like this twist on a summoning class ... especially the idea that the eidolon is a much more colorful mount.

How do you suggest we handle languages for the eidolon?

Maybe, Common and another language of the Summoner?

Should this be based on the Type of the eidolon?

Thanks

Kryx
2017-09-03, 04:57 PM
How do you suggest we handle languages for the eidolon?

Maybe, Common and another language of the Summoner?

Should this be based on the Type of the eidolon?
I'd suggest following Pathfinder's lead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner#TOC-Eidolon) here: "An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it and can speak all of his languages"

Cognomore
2017-09-04, 03:19 PM
I'd suggest following Pathfinder's lead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner#TOC-Eidolon) here: "An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it and can speak all of his languages"

Interesting. The languages make sense.

I'll talk with my DM about having their alignments be different. I like the idea that the part of my Summoner's soul that is contained in my eidolon is evil, so there will always be a struggle between the two.

Are eidolon's proficient in their Attack evolutions?

Thanks!

Kryx
2017-09-04, 03:23 PM
Are eidolon's proficient in their Attack evolutions?
Yes they are.