Hearthstone 16: Ia Ia! C'thun Fhtagn!

[Zevox]

Welcome to sixteenth GitP thread for Hearthstone. For anyone who doesn't know, Hearthstone is a video card game from Blizzard, based on the Warcraft series. The game is free to play and available here (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/), so if you're interested, give it a shot. You've got nothing to lose but your free time. :smallwink:

For new players, something to be aware of is that there are a number of hidden "quests" you can complete which will give you free gold, dust, or even a pack. A complete list can be found here (http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/1088-list-of-quests-and-daily-quests-in-hearthstone). Be aware that not quite all of those are ones you'll be able to complete quickly though.

And here is a list of Playgrounders currently in the game, for both NA and EU servers:

GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (US)
aethernoxethernox#1948
AgentPaperAgentPaper#1193
AmberVaelAmberVael#1225
AnarionAnarion55#1254
AntonokAntonok#1704
AnxeGoCorral#1879
BaelotBaelot#1149
CogwheelOmegaNixon#1123
banthesunbanthesun#1782
Dancing OwlbearOwlbear#1586
Destro YersulDestroYersul#1239
D_LordVolrock#1367
Duck999Duck999#1349
DuosDoctorDapper#1491
Firedaemon33Firedaemon#1486
flat_footedHiigara#1357 [/td]
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
GAADGAAD#1126
GaelbertSamHouston#1563
GamerlordGamerlord#1612
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GanorenasGanorenas#1457
GomipileGlodd#1784
Gray MageGrayMage#1723
GrytormGrytorm#1777
HamsteTheorules#1234
Haruspex_PariahHaruspexPari#1254
HatevahHatevah#1405
HircineIllusiveMan#1616
jindra34JinRia #1770
JohnjimcoJohnJimco#1482
KarohtKaroht#1505
KishGrazzt#1417
KradeKrade#1266
LegoShrimplegoshrimp#1722
Landis963Landis963#1789
Loreweaver15Loreweaver#1199
Lunix VandalLunixVandal#1952
MacGiollaMacGiolla#1982
MathMageMathMage#1797
MCerberusMCerberus#1734
mistformsquirrlmistformsqrl#1430
moosabiMoossabi#1325
Mystic MuseNSFJunkblade#1400
Neon KnightVultureCrook#1434
Neriractorneriractor#1483
NerociteJoeKage#1852
nhbdyNohbdy#1927
OlinserOlinser#1393
OnionbreathGiantSquid#1845
OrcusMcPOrcus#1805
otakuryogaScootaloo#1471
Pokonicpokonic#1166
PsyBombPsyBomb#1878
QwertystopQwertystop#1897
r2d2gor2d2go#1262
RodinRodin#1811
RosstinRosstin#1609
SamBurkeSamBurke#1486
ShishnarfneGruschenka#1375
SholosVeebeebee#1383
Stabbity Rabbit StabityRabit#1362
TemoteiTemotei#1507
Tesla_pastateslapasta#1973
Thanatos 51-50Thanatos5150#1407
TheGlyphstoneGlyphstone#1419
The Hellbugthehellbug#1216
The_JackalTheJackal#1499
TogarthAsparag#1680
Trouble BrewingHairyPoppins#1949
UserCloneUserClone #1545
VolatarVolatar#1750
YanaRaltis#1807
ZeroNumerousZeroNumerous#1913
ZevoxZevox#1522
ZmekJadeReaver #1783


GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (EU)
AdumbrationAdumbration#2419
Aran ThuleAranThule#2780
AvarisAvaris#2378
Avilan the GreyBeardedgeek#2355
Beelzebub1111SirArthurIV#1244
boomwolfBoomWolf#1169
DadaScrattlebear#2863
D-naras Dinos #2811
Epinephrine_SynSilverSeraph #2931
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
Frog DragonVasemmasti#2618
FyreByrdFyreByrd#2962
GandarielCiabatta#2958
GolemsVoiceCrazyCat#29897
HewhosaysfishHeWhoSezFish#2503
Hippie_VikingHippieViking#2866
Infernally ClayWinny#1904
JormengandTrianna#2529
LionheartLionheart#2440
Mr.SilverSilverSmiles#2462
MurmaiderMurmaider#2273
PoscaMazura#2636
RaddishRaddish#2730
ScionoftheVoidJayPsi#2775
ShinyRocksMoodyTuskarr#2790
SianSian#2690
SilfirSilfir#2863
SlyGuyMcFlySlGuyMcFly#2562
TokayTokay#2518
TomeTaejix#2836
VolthawkVolthawk#1214
WeimannWeimann#2716
WraithIllusionist#2224
XianderXiander#2814

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So, I'm curious: has anybody seen somebody running a C'Thun deck in classes other than Druid and Priest, which seem to be the two common ones? Or done one themselves? Thus far, I've only seen one, a Mage - it didn't seem that good, but that's kind of predictable since Mage's only class C'Thun card isn't all that good. But I would think that Rogue, Warlock, and Warrior would all see at least some people trying them, since they got C'Thun-related cards that seem pretty good - and Warlock in particular has the hero power to greatly increase their odds of drawing C'Thun on top of that, so I'm surprised I haven't seen one of those yet.

[PsyBomb]

Saw a Warrior and a Rogue other than those classes. The Warrior was a Fatigue type that just slotted in the boosters plus Emperors. The rogue caught me off-guard, my first indication he was running C'thun was on turn 9 when he dropped a Blade and killed my Doomguard. Looked like Malygos setup until then

[Destro_Yersul]

I built a Warrior variant, but haven't tried it yet.

[neriractor]

So, I'm curious: has anybody seen somebody running a C'Thun deck in classes other than Druid and Priest, which seem to be the two common ones? Or done one themselves? Thus far, I've only seen one, a Mage - it didn't seem that good, but that's kind of predictable since Mage's only class C'Thun card isn't all that good. But I would think that Rogue, Warlock, and Warrior would all see at least some people trying them, since they got C'Thun-related cards that seem pretty good - and Warlock in particular has the hero power to greatly increase their odds of drawing C'Thun on top of that, so I'm surprised I haven't seen one of those yet.

I actually saw a c´thun rogue recently, didn´t even have time to drop his c´thun before ruining my winstreak. Made remarkably great use of the new rogue card that gives you a 1/1 copy of a minion, combined with a bran that I failed to remove within a couple of turns and I quit the match when he/she dropped his/her third 1/1 tournament medic and hero powered (I was playing my hunter deck)

[Anarion]

C'thun warrior does competently. Just run all the control warrior stuff that you would normally: couple brawls, couple bash, shield slam, execute, shield block. Throw in the early game c'thun buffing guys in place of the deaths bites and maybe cruel taskmasters, run the +10 armor shieldmaidens, twin emperors, and c'thun as your finishers (can still use Grom too I think).

I'm not sure if it's better than other versions of the shell, but it works.

[Mando Knight]

Despite not having a C'Thun card, Paladin could maybe do well: one of the class's weaknesses as a Control deck is the lack of a big finisher (especially with Murk-Eye out of Standard, breaking the Anyfin burst), so you could adapt the old Anyfin deck to use C'Thun minions instead of Murlocs, leading up to Old Eyeballs at the end.

[Anarion]

Despite not having a C'Thun card, Paladin could maybe do well: one of the class's weaknesses as a Control deck is the lack of a big finisher (especially with Murk-Eye out of Standard, breaking the Anyfin burst), so you could adapt the old Anyfin deck to use C'Thun minions instead of Murlocs, leading up to Old Eyeballs at the end.

I'm not sure that's strong enough though. There's no way to consistently set up the Brann+C'thun combo (and anybody who doesn't kill a turn 9 Brann deserves what they get), and without that the best you can hope for is to try and get a 30/30 that kills them.

Aside, the fact that if your C'thun doesn't win you the game when you drop it shows just how rough massive creatures have it. You can drop a 20/20 C'thun, but if you've got nothing else, it will get polymorphed, hexed, shadow word deathed, equalitied, or executed, among others.

[PsyBomb]

Has anyone else run into a Darwin Shaman? Watched a Kripparian video about it then hit three in a row. Lot of momentum-based there, if you give them an inch they'll turn it into a mile.

[Kish]

I did. His Evolution served him very badly (he got a board I was able to clear entirely which included a Darnassus Aspirant) and so he lost.

[Anarion]

Has anyone else run into a Darwin Shaman? Watched a Kripparian video about it then hit three in a row. Lot of momentum-based there, if you give them an inch they'll turn it into a mile.

Yeah, it's a solid deck. The shaman cards right now are just really strong.

[Destro_Yersul]

Tried a few games with C'thun warrior. Won 3, lost 1, and the one I lost I didn't draw any of my C'thun buffers or any of my weapons until it was far too late.

[Zevox]

...you know, in the excitement of the expansion and Standard, I only just now noticed, but we didn't have a Tavern Brawl this week. What's up with that? :smallconfused:

[Mando Knight]

...you know, in the excitement of the expansion and Standard, I only just now noticed, but we didn't have a Tavern Brawl this week. What's up with that? :smallconfused:

There is a Brawl, Encounter at the Crossroads.

[moossabi]

...you know, in the excitement of the expansion and Standard, I only just now noticed, but we didn't have a Tavern Brawl this week. What's up with that? :smallconfused:

It was crossroads. And excruciating to try and get a pack from.

[Zevox]

There is a Brawl, Encounter at the Crossroads.
Oh? Weird, it didn't do the usual "Brawl button flips over" thing when it started for me. And nobody was talking about it, so...

Oh well, not one of the good ones anyway, so eh.

[PsyBomb]

Yeah, I expected it to be more Whispers focused to give everyone a taste of the new cards. Ended up being the uncontrollable decks.

[Grytorm]

I played a game of the brawl as hunter. Drew two Hemit Nessingwarys before I got 5 mana, even got to use one of them. Is there any evidence of classes having a greater chance of having certain neutral cards?

Also I think I've actually started a good arena run. Got 2 Obsidian Destroyers, a Justicar Trueheart and a Gorehowl plus a decent curve. I think I can do a lot of good lategame.b

[Mando Knight]

Apparently when you have Fandral on the board, Dark Wispers (the GvG card) can buff your face (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0FU2i4oixo). Which makes your face a 5/35 Taunt.

...Aaaand it's gone. (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/20743674498#1) Goodbye, face-taunt Druid.

[Lunix Vandal]

Has anyone else run into a Darwin Shaman? Watched a Kripparian video about it then hit three in a row. Lot of momentum-based there, if you give them an inch they'll turn it into a mile.I have seen one as well (or a variant, haven't watched Kripp's video yet). Actually had a pretty climactic ending, too, with my midrange Hunter at 8 HP and the Shaman in single digits...

With Ragnaros on the board.

Honestly I only won because the Shaman misplayed on his last turn -- instead of throwing his Fire Elemental and Thunderbluff Valiant-boosted Healing Totem at my face, he used them to clear minions to try and get the Rag shot to hit my face. And then Rag whiffed and hit a minion for the third turn in a row. :smalltongue:

[ChaosOS]

So far I've only seen negative results out of Darwin Shaman; I was playing Tempo Mage and managed to win streak my way up from 9 to 5, with Darwin Shamans evolving for the loss twice during that streak. (One of them evolved a full board including double of the 5/5 taunt into a non-taunting board, giving the extra 4 damage off the Jungle Panther (From Faceless Summoner) I needed. The other involved evolving into a Doomsayer that wiped his full board, leaving him empty on resources and me the ability to just go antonidas->frostbolt the one creature he played->Mirror Image into the concession from him)

[Rodin]

So far I've only seen negative results out of Darwin Shaman; I was playing Tempo Mage and managed to win streak my way up from 9 to 5, with Darwin Shamans evolving for the loss twice during that streak. (One of them evolved a full board including double of the 5/5 taunt into a non-taunting board, giving the extra 4 damage off the Jungle Panther (From Faceless Summoner) I needed. The other involved evolving into a Doomsayer that wiped his full board, leaving him empty on resources and me the ability to just go antonidas->frostbolt the one creature he played->Mirror Image into the concession from him)

I tried playing one, and I don't know if I just suck at it or whether the deck is weak. The C'thun decks seem much better.

Zoolock is also pretty fun, although so far I'm 3 out of 3 Control opponents. Of course.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I tried playing one, and I don't know if I just suck at it or whether the deck is weak. The C'thun decks seem much better.

There's definitely potential; I don't have the cards for it, but I got to try a similar deck out in Arena (double Master of Evolution, one copy of Evolve, one copy of Flamewreathed Faceless), and it got me 5 wins. You have to be smart with the timings of your Evolves, but you can definitely steamroller your way into a big tempo advantage if you play smart.

The problem is, I think, what you identified: the C'thun decks are better. Anything midrange needs a kill combo, or else C'thun decks will eat it for breakfast.

[Xiander]

I have played around with a C'thun light rogue deck. As I do not have a huge pile of C'thun boosters yet, i ended up just taking my combo rogue deck and adding in two descible of c'thun, two Chosen of C'thun and the big guy himself. For now I have had some pretty good success with it, playing a rather agressive midrange style.
Most games end with c'thun dropping while my opponent is around ten health, but the deck is fast enough that i do sometimes end before turn ten. On oppnent simply gave up when i dropped the second Chosen before he had figured out how to deal with the first.

[Rodin]

I just ran into my first ever Fatigue Paladin. The deck just sits there and heals like crazy for the entire game, then finishes by dropping Ragnaros, Lightlord as the game moves into fatigue...and then crowns it with N'Zoth to summon a load of Deathrattle minions.

I'm deeply intrigued.

[Sith_Happens]

If you guys are talking about the kind of Shaman that goes from an empty board to 33/35 total stats on turn 8... Yeah, I ran into one of those recently.:smallyuk:

[scottcrowan]

I have also played around with a C'thun light rogue deck. Hearthstone is one of my favourite game.

[Gandariel]

I just realized I'm literally Hitler right now.
Everyone playing these super cool 10-mana dudes, and I've been only playing Zoolock/Hunter/Aggro Shaman, and have never seen turn 10 yet. :P

Also, swapped the two Scientists from my Freeze mage, it's now Standard ready and looks unstoppable. Haven't tried it yet, but it literally lost just 2 cards.

Zoo is a great matchup
Aggro shaman and Hunter are... OK. Risky and swingy,but doable.
Control Warrior is an auto loss.
All old gods decks look like favored matchups (at first glance) (c'Thun might punch me for 1000 pewpew damage, but I have two Blocks in my deck and he has only one of him)
...
We'll see.

[Rosstin]

Everyone playing these super cool 10-mana dudes, and I've been only playing Zoolock/Hunter/Aggro Shaman, and have never seen turn 10 yet. :P

You are not alone.

[tonberrian]

Hrmm. It appears a wing will be within my grasp today. I have none, blackrock or ADVENTURE?

[Gandariel]

First wing of Blackrock has a ton of cool stuff, get that!

[Arcane_Snowman]

Took down a Darwin Shaman a couple of matches ago when he ramped into an Anomalous, cue Shadow Word: Death and much mirth on my behalf. :smallamused:

That said, it does look like a pretty interesting deck, although I've been furnishing my C'Thun Priest and it's getting close to done I think.

[DaedalusMkV]

Also, swapped the two Scientists from my Freeze mage, it's now Standard ready and looks unstoppable. Haven't tried it yet, but it literally lost just 2 cards.


Be very, very careful against C'thun Priest. Odds are pretty good he's got 15-20 points of burst heal ready to go in the event you throw Alex at him, and attrition tactics aren't going to work at all. Expect to have to combo him down from 30 in one turn, two at the most, and plan accordingly. It's not a good fight at all for you. C'thun Warrior is going to be about 95% in the Warrior's favour, since they're running more Armor effects than ever before in the history of the game, and armour-heavy Warrior was already the bane of Freeze Mage's existence. The more C'thun decks on the ladder, the less playable Freeze is going to be, and there's nothing you can do about that.

I've played against Freeze Mage four times now with C'thun priest, beat them effortlessly all four times. I think the Mage needs a flawless draw against a relatively heal-light Priest to have any hope of victory.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Anyone have any idea about what to tech against Tempo Mage as a C'Thun Priest?

I've played against several now, and I'm not sure if it's because of mulliganing wrong or just having terrible luck, but I've so far been completely steamrolled by them.

[Temotei]

Anyone have any idea about what to tech against Tempo Mage as a C'Thun Priest?

I've played against several now, and I'm not sure if it's because of mulliganing wrong or just having terrible luck, but I've so far been completely steamrolled by them.

If you're not running double Shadow Word: Pain, do that against Tempo Mage. They tend to run a good amount of high-priority targets. Mulligan for your early game (1-2 drops, 3 drops if you have a 1-2 drop in hand already). Consider keeping a Pain if you have something to play other than that in your starting hand.

[OrcusMcP]

I've been having a lot of good fun with a C'Thun Rogue, and recently tried a C'Thun Fatigue Rogue to hilarious effect.

I can also attest that Evolution Shaman is Best Shaman.

[Arcane_Snowman]

If you're not running double Shadow Word: Pain, do that against Tempo Mage. They tend to run a good amount of high-priority targets. Mulligan for your early game (1-2 drops, 3 drops if you have a 1-2 drop in hand already). Consider keeping a Pain if you have something to play other than that in your starting hand. Since posting I've taken to running one Shadow Word: Pain and one Shadow Word: Horror. Not 100% sure how well the horror is going to do me, but I've had several times where people have tried to hide their Brann behind either a wall or Stealth before dropping C'thun.

[Beelzebub1111]

I played a game against a cthun priest where cthun was literally the bottom card of his deck. I got doom from...*battlecry each player gets a random spell* so I ended up decking out, but he ended up playing his 32/ 32 cthun, which I ice blocked, then I fatigued on my turn.

That "whenever takes damage c'thun gets +1/+1" is amazing when you have healing and health boosts. He power word tentacles'd it, then doubled its health and it just sat there for the rest of the game since I was playing mage and had no removal if he didn't attack with it.

Needless to say, I added two shatters and more freeze spells after that.

By the way, my name is SirArthurIV and mostly play on EU server if you want to add me to the list.

[Temotei]

Since posting I've taken to running one Shadow Word: Pain and one Shadow Word: Horror. Not 100% sure how well the horror is going to do me, but I've had several times where people have tried to hide their Brann behind either a wall or Stealth before dropping C'thun.

Ah, yeah, Horror should work fine. I don't have it yet and I forgot it was a thing even though I'm kind of excited to try it out.

[Rodin]

Shadow Word: Horror is also terrifying if you're running a Zoolock. It pretty much wipes the board, acting as a third Holy Nova. It can even catch the Councilman if they played it expecting to be able to Forbidden Ritual the following turn.

[Temotei]

Shadow Word: Horror is also terrifying if you're running a Zoolock. It pretty much wipes the board, acting as a third Holy Nova. It can even catch the Councilman if they played it expecting to be able to Forbidden Ritual the following turn.

It also just straight up eliminates Imp Gang Bosses rather than even allowing them to produce imps.

This is good. Warlock deserves it. :smalltongue:

[gomipile]

So, what's the general meta looking like in ranked Standard now?

[turbo164]

First wing of Blackrock has a ton of cool stuff, get that!

Reddit said that Moira's AI broke with the patch, so Emperor is tricky until that gets fixed.



That "whenever takes damage c'thun gets +1/+1" is amazing when you have healing and health boosts. He power word tentacles'd it, then doubled its health and it just sat there for the rest of the game since I was playing mage and had no removal if he didn't attack with it.


Might want to run a Polymorph. It's useful against the Shaman 4 mana 7/7, deathrattles, the C'thun resurrecter, etc.

[ShinyRocks]

So, what's the general meta looking like in ranked Standard now?

In my experience? C'thun, C'thun, C'thun, C'thun, C'thun, C'thun, and a bit more C'thun, and Face Hunter because that's apparently immortal, and then some more C'thun.

The odd Face Hunter notwithstanding, it's slowed down a *lot*, is my main observation.

[PsyBomb]

So, what's the general meta looking like in ranked Standard now?

C'thun Druid and Priest, Ritual Zoo Warlock, Aggro and Darwin Shaman (mostly Aggro for now until people get the cards), and a scattering of older archetypes like Fatigue Warrior and Freeze/Tempo Mage. Watch out for Yogg if you find a Mage. Midrange Hunter is slowly rising, and some Face is running around.

Not all that many Rogues or Paladins at the moment, though that may change.

[moossabi]

So, what's the general meta looking like in ranked Standard now?

I'm using a fixed variant of my Dragon Priest and curbstomping almost everyone (except that time when I mulliganed away some 4 drops and ended up with Ysera, Chillmaw, and Chromaggus in my opening hand with Ragnaros as my turn 1 draw). With everyone slowing stuff down, I can actually easily get a really great board up and running and crush whatever they play. I've only ran into one C'thun deck (Rogue), and by then my Chromaggus had given me 2 Yseras on the board and a bunch of Wyrmrest Agents.

Most of what I ran into was theorycraft or new players who hadn't learned that Dukboar is a bad card.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I've been having a lot of good fun with a C'Thun Rogue, and recently tried a C'Thun Fatigue Rogue to hilarious effect.
What're your lists for those? Maybe I'm leaning too heavily on the Control/Stall side, but my Reno Rogue'thun deck has only gotten mediocre results. (My Stall C'thun Rogue deck gets overpowered, my Reno Rogue'thun deck doesn't have enough C'thun buffs.)

[Hamste]

I just realized I'm literally Hitler right now.
Everyone playing these super cool 10-mana dudes, and I've been only playing Zoolock/Hunter/Aggro Shaman, and have never seen turn 10 yet. :P

Also, swapped the two Scientists from my Freeze mage, it's now Standard ready and looks unstoppable. Haven't tried it yet, but it literally lost just 2 cards.

Zoo is a great matchup
Aggro shaman and Hunter are... OK. Risky and swingy,but doable.
Control Warrior is an auto loss.
All old gods decks look like favored matchups (at first glance) (c'Thun might punch me for 1000 pewpew damage, but I have two Blocks in my deck and he has only one of him)
...
We'll see.


I play C'Zoo myself. A later midgame deck than zoolock with a bit more of a punch. Turns out most cards are C'thun cards are actually decent in zoolock. 2/1 that does 2 works nicely for killing things when behind, 4/2 with divine shield adds some damage differenation in there and even the 2/3 can see play (Though not sure about it). I have a single usher of souls and twilight elder in there but the twilight elder is getting replaced as soon as I get Brann. Vek'Lor is great and C'Thun is good. I also teched in black knight because of the taunt heavy meta.

[PsyBomb]

I play C'Zoo myself. A later midgame deck than zoolock with a bit more of a punch. Turns out most cards are C'thun cards are actually decent in zoolock. 2/1 that does 2 works nicely for killing things when behind, 4/2 with divine shield adds some damage differenation in there and even the 2/3 can see play (Though not sure about it). I have a single usher of souls and twilight elder in there but the twilight elder is getting replaced as soon as I get Brann. Vek'Lor is great and C'Thun is good. I also teched in black knight because of the taunt heavy meta.

I'd love to see your actual list. This concept appeals to me, and I'd love trying it out. Also helps that it sounds like I'm closer to it than Ritual Zoo.

EDIT: For reference, right now what I'm running is a budget version of pre-Whispers Zoo with Possessed Villagers instead of Voidwalkers. Was going to drop my Hellfire, but kept it around because I find myself needing catch-up and it makes the current agro lineup cry themselves to sleep if timed right. Might just go to two. I have Vek'lor, but no Rituals (heck, no Councilmen or Disciples yet either, but those are easier to find)

[OrcusMcP]

What're your lists for those? Maybe I'm leaning too heavily on the Control/Stall side, but my Reno Rogue'thun deck has only gotten mediocre results. (My Stall C'thun Rogue deck gets overpowered, my Reno Rogue'thun deck doesn't have enough C'thun buffs.)

My C'Thun decks aren't "perfect" as I don't have Vek'lor yet, but there's a few important pieces to C'Thun Rogue in particular that are very important from what I've used and seen so far:

-Shadowstep
-Blade of C'Thun
-Shadow Caster
-Brann

Use the usual C'Thun buff pieces to get board presence (Beckoner, Twilight Elder, Disciple is especially good, as is Crazed Worshipper), as well as usual removal stuff (eviscerate, backstab, shadow strike, etc). Bladed Cultist is almost always good for presence as well. I have Azure Drakes but they're placeholders for when I get Vek'lor and Xaril.

Now, the idea is not to use Brann for a double C'Thun, but for use with your other key pieces (Shadow Caster, Blade of C'Thun and Disciple in particular). Likewise for the Shadow Caster, you want to be using it on your awesome battlecry pieces (Disciple, Blade).

Shadowstep is not to be used on anything except C'Thun. Play C'Thun as soon as you are able and Shadowstep same turn. This allows you to use C'Thun as a good board clear and then a finisher.

I think especially if you're trying for Reno C'Thun, you want to be getting the max value possible from your Shadow Caster. You want a serious turn 10 of Brann, Shadow Caster, then your two 1/1 battlecries.

[Hamste]

Just get rid of Forbidden Ritual for another Twilight Elder if you don't have it. There is no knife juggler in the deck so it is only there to flood the board if you lose it.

Forbidden Ritual
Power Overwhelming x2
Abusive Sergeant x2
Flame Imp x2
Void Walker x2
Beckoner of Evil x2
Dark Peddler x2
Dire Wolf Alpha x2
Disciple of C'Thun x2
Imp Gang Boss x2
Twilight elder (Replace with Brann if you have him)
C'Thun's Chosen x2
Dark Iron Dwarf x2
Defender of Argus x2
Usher of souls
Black Knight
Twin Emperor Vek'Lor
C'Thun

[Anxe]

I played a game against a cthun priest where cthun was literally the bottom card of his deck. I got doom from...*battlecry each player gets a random spell* so I ended up decking out, but he ended up playing his 32/ 32 cthun, which I ice blocked, then I fatigued on my turn.

That "whenever takes damage c'thun gets +1/+1" is amazing when you have healing and health boosts. He power word tentacles'd it, then doubled its health and it just sat there for the rest of the game since I was playing mage and had no removal if he didn't attack with it.

Needless to say, I added two shatters and more freeze spells after that.

By the way, my name is SirArthurIV and mostly play on EU server if you want to add me to the list.

We'll need the 4 numbers after your name as well! Good that you included the server though. Most people forget that part.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

My C'Thun decks aren't "perfect" as I don't have Vek'lor yet, but there's a few important pieces to C'Thun Rogue in particular that are very important from what I've used and seen so far:

-Shadowstep
-Blade of C'Thun
-Shadow Caster
-Brann

Use the usual C'Thun buff pieces to get board presence (Beckoner, Twilight Elder, Disciple is especially good, as is Crazed Worshipper), as well as usual removal stuff (eviscerate, backstab, shadow strike, etc). Bladed Cultist is almost always good for presence as well. I have Azure Drakes but they're placeholders for when I get Vek'lor and Xaril.

Now, the idea is not to use Brann for a double C'Thun, but for use with your other key pieces (Shadow Caster, Blade of C'Thun and Disciple in particular). Likewise for the Shadow Caster, you want to be using it on your awesome battlecry pieces (Disciple, Blade).

Shadowstep is not to be used on anything except C'Thun. Play C'Thun as soon as you are able and Shadowstep same turn. This allows you to use C'Thun as a good board clear and then a finisher.

I think especially if you're trying for Reno C'Thun, you want to be getting the max value possible from your Shadow Caster. You want a serious turn 10 of Brann, Shadow Caster, then your two 1/1 battlecries.
Okay, not having a copy of Shadowcaster is probably a big thing that's hurting me here. Disciple, too. I've held off on crafting them for now (in lieu of hoping to get them from packs) because I'm not sure how strong Reno Rogue'thun will be (or Rogue'thun in general), but...

(Also, Vek'lor is absolutely fantastic. One of my favorite moves is Brann into Vek'lor for a TON of taunt that they have massive amounts of trouble getting through. I almost beat my friend's Dragon Paladin deck, partially because of that move.)

[OrcusMcP]

Okay, not having a copy of Shadowcaster is probably a big thing that's hurting me here. Disciple, too. I've held off on crafting them for now (in lieu of hoping to get them from packs) because I'm not sure how strong Reno Rogue'thun will be (or Rogue'thun in general), but...

(Also, Vek'lor is absolutely fantastic. One of my favorite moves is Brann into Vek'lor for a TON of taunt that they have massive amounts of trouble getting through. I almost beat my friend's Dragon Paladin deck, partially because of that move.)

I want Vek'lor soooo baaaad!

I got N'Zoth in my latest pack, though, maybe it's time to bring back the Raptor Rogue.

[tonberrian]

Has anyone tried a, uh, tempo priest with shadowfiend as an enabler? (Ab)Use cost discounts to get bigger things and moar things out on the field? How does that sound?

[Legoshrimp]

I made a c'zoon deck. I have no idea if it is good. BUT it is super fun saying C'ZOOOOON.

So far it seems like it isn't, but making modifications as I go.

[tonberrian]

Pfft. I just played a Mage that played Yogg-Saron, then had Yogg and Brann Bronzebeard bounced back to hand with rogue spells. They had me dead to rights with a seven power minion against my tauntless board with me having one health, but chose to double yogg again.

Apparently, Yogg doesn't like being bounced, because the mage took two Lava Bursts to face for game.

[Hamste]

I made a c'zoon deck. I have no idea if it is good. BUT it is super fun saying C'ZOOOOON.

So far it seems like it isn't, but making modifications as I go.

I like C'Zoo myself just because it is kind of funny.

[Mando Knight]

Pfft. I just played a Mage that played Yogg-Saron, then had Yogg and Brann Bronzebeard bounced back to hand with rogue spells. They had me dead to rights with a seven power minion against my tauntless board with me having one health, but chose to double yogg again.

Apparently, Yogg doesn't like being bounced, because the mage took two Lava Bursts to face for game.

Never BM, kids.

[Legoshrimp]

I like C'Zoo myself just because it is kind of funny.

So far it seems completely awful though.

Although that could do a lot with my specific deck.

[Hamste]

So far it seems completely awful though.

Although that could do a lot with my specific deck.

What are you running? I posted my list up thread. I currently have a 57% win rate.

[Legoshrimp]

What are you running? I posted my list up thread. I currently have a 57% win rate.

Power Overwhelming x 2
Abusive Sergeant x 2
Flame Imp x 2
Possessed Villager x 2
Voidwalker x 2
Beckoner of Evil
Dark Peddler x 2
Dire Wolf Alpha x 2
Brann Bronzebeard
Disciple of C'Thun x 2
Imp Gang Boss x 2
Twilight Elder
C'Thun's Chosen x 2
Defender of Argus x 2
Leeroy Jenkins
Twin Emperor Vek'lor
C'Thun
Sea Giant x 2

I am running more of an aggro list then you I think, just enough c'thun buffs to get by. Also I should probably make room for TBK. So far I am 2-3 with this and earlier versions of it. I think some of my losses were just bad luck, but idk.

It seems like it just is awful vs any match up that is fast.

[Hamste]

That deck is more aggro than mine. With Sea Giants you might want to consider the forbidden card (Just one. Can't play both if you have two in hand on the same turn so two is worse in zoo.). I'm also kind of iffy on that twilight elder. The magic number in C'Thun decks is 10 as that is when Vek'lor comes online and with a single elder you need it to trigger twice which isn't that likely (As you have no other odd number bonuses in your deck. That is why I replaced mine since I posted that deck. 1 extra attack, health and bolt on C'thun isn't that important.). You can probably find a card better than that.


Also that is really strange you have bad match up vs fast decks. Are you mulliganing right? You want voidwalker, flame imp and possessed villager in those match ups with an attack buff for the villager and void walker. Also controlling is really important in those match ups unless you think you can out aggro them (You probably can't).

[Legoshrimp]

That deck is more aggro than mine. With Sea Giants you might want to consider the forbidden card (Just one. Can't play both if you have two in hand on the same turn so two is worse in zoo.). I'm also kind of iffy on that twilight elder. The magic number in C'Thun decks is 10 as that is when Vek'lor comes online and with a single elder you need it to trigger twice which isn't that likely (As you have no other odd number bonuses in your deck. That is why I replaced mine since I posted that deck. 1 extra attack, health and bolt on C'thun isn't that important.). You can probably find a card better than that.


Also that is really strange you have bad match up vs fast decks. Are you mulliganing right? You want voidwalker, flame imp and possessed villager in those match ups with an attack buff for the villager and void walker. Also controlling is really important in those match ups unless you think you can out aggro them (You probably can't).

Yeah I will probably switch the twilight elder out, although of c'thun cards it is probably the best statwise.

I might not be mulliganing aggressively enough.

It also could be just bad luck with such a small sample size. Although it hasn't improved much. It is now 3-5.
EDIT:
swithced twilight elder and one sea giant for TBK and forbidden ritual. Not sure if tbk fits, but it is really strong in some situations.

Edit 2:
4-5 now, it just seems really swingy, like I either win really hard or just lose really hard.

Also I think sea giants are pretty good. I think the main thing I am running into is the deck doesn't really gain anything from c'thun a lot of the time. The few times vek'lor is run out it can be useful, but it might be too late. Also I have never drawn c'thun or reached turn 10 I think in my 9 games.

Edit 3:
More general zoo question: What do you do if the only one drop you have is abusive?

[Hamste]

On the mulligan or in your hand at the beginning of the game? On the mulligan then it depends on the class I'm playing against and the other cards in my hand. Against any of the non-aggro classes I keep it as long as I have an ok curve, against an aggro class with no turn 1 play I mulligan it (Unless I think they have a totem golem or something in hand). If it is in your hand you almost never play it turn 1 (Shaman has Trog and Hunter's sometimes are not aggro in this meta. Any other class it would just be a mistake.)

[Legoshrimp]

On the mulligan or in your hand at the beginning of the game? On the mulligan then it depends on the class I'm playing against and the other cards in my hand. Against any of the non-aggro classes I keep it as long as I have an ok curve, against an aggro class with no turn 1 play I mulligan it (Unless I think they have a totem golem or something in hand). If it is in your hand you almost never play it turn 1 (Shaman has Trog and Hunter's sometimes are not aggro in this meta. Any other class it would just be a mistake.)

Yeah it was mostly if it is ever really worth playing it on turn 1. Basically would you rather pass or play abusive on t1?

I will have to play your deck some at some point although I feel like just zoo is probably better.

[Mando Knight]

Abusive is too valuable later on to be played as a 1-drop. He trades evenly with an opposing Flame Imp, but fails to do much else if he doesn't get to buff another minion.

[Beelzebub1111]

I anyfinned, for a second time in a row, right before a c'thun dropped, right after the board was wiped. I lost only one murloc. a I wish I could have seen the look on his face when that happened.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I don't know what it's like for Zoo, but I always keep Abusive Sergeant in my Aggro Shaman mulligans if I don't have another 1-drop. The simple reason is because it ensures board momentum from T1, which is crucial to the success of the deck. T1 Abusive Sergeant forces the opponent to deal with it, and even if they ping it away, they've used all of their T2 mana. (If I'm Player 1, that also means they coined.)

Otherwise, Abusive trades with almost all 1-drops aside from Voidwalker and Argent Squire. The only other real way to answer it is to coin out Shielded Minibot, which isn't an option in Standard. (Coining out a 2/3 works, but the 2/3 gets dropped to 1 health, which is much easier to deal with.) If they don't play a 1-drop in response, then you get 2 free damage, and a Turn 2 play, which builds your board even more. If they spend the turn dealing with your Abusive, then they didn't do anything to deal with your 2-drop.

On the one hand, I can see Zoo really needing that Abusive for the +2 attack swing. On the other hand, Zoo has a lot of ways of dealing that last point of damage.

I don't really know enough about Zoo to know how much of that transfers, but I assume at least the basic principle of obtaining momentum still applies.

That said, it's far better to have an actual 1-drop like Possessed Villager or Voidwalker.

[Mando Knight]

He also loses to Troggs, Mana Wyrms, and Possessed Villagers. I really don't like the play in Zoolock, since you lose lose some reach that's also needed as removal.

[Legoshrimp]

Yeah that is what I thought, although you lose a lot if you don't play a 1 drop.

[Zevox]

By the way, my name is SirArthurIV and mostly play on EU server if you want to add me to the list.
I need the know the number after your username as well, otherwise nobody will be able to add you.


Ah, yeah, Horror should work fine. I don't have it yet and I forgot it was a thing even though I'm kind of excited to try it out.
I can't imagine Shadow Word: Horror being worth running outside of an extremely aggro meta. It would be awful against most midrange or control matchups, often being just a worse SW: Pain (twice the mana cost, can't hit things with 3 attack) since there are so few targets for it in those decks. On top of that, Priest already has a 4-mana AoE-ish card that is quite strong, Shadow Madness - I'd just run that instead, personally.

[Beelzebub1111]

I need the know the number after your username as well, otherwise nobody will be able to add you.


Sorry, it's SirArthurIV#1244, EU

[Rodin]

I just realized I've never added my name to these threads.

Rodin#1811, Americas.

[Gandariel]

@turn one abusive : I generally DO play him if it's my only option AND I'm going first AND the opponent is not Rogue or Priest.

Most decks which run Abusive NEED to be very aggressive, so the value of playing a 1-drop is pretty high.

If you don't get on the board early, you might just fall behind and not ever get a good Abusive target.

(Rogue's Coin hero power leaves a 1/1 weapon, which might hurt me in the next turn, and literally every early game Priest card beats a 2/1)

Anyways, it obviously depends on a lot of factors.

If I see a good play for my next turns I hold it.
If I have something like Juggler and Creeper, I'll just play Creeper T2, then Juggler Abusive trade on t3. I am sure the Battlecry will have effect, I'm getting all my synergy, etc.

[Infernally Clay]

I had almost begun to question whether or not having A Light in the Darkness in my deck was a bad move, but it suits my style very nicely and in my last game they got me Eadric and Y'shaarj. I'm still struggling in some match ups (Shaman has never been so popular!) but I think my Midrange Paladin deck has survived the new release.

I'm working on a Fandral deck but it's slow going. I need more ways to keep the guy alive.

[Grytorm]

Any ideas for Y'shaarg? I pulled him at realease but I can't think of anything to do with him straight away.

[PsyBomb]

If Abusive is in hand before mulligan with no other play, I keep. If same is true post-mulligan, I will play it. This is if going first against any non-ping class.

Going second, I'll pitch in a heartbeat. I will nearly always have a coin-play that will hold up better long-term.

[Kish]

Any ideas for Y'shaarg? I pulled him at realease but I can't think of anything to do with him straight away.
Either stick him in a deck with mostly bad Battlecries or...just disenchant him. He's the least appealing of the Old Gods by a distance, I'm afraid.

[Mando Knight]

Just drafted an Arena deck with 11 4-mana cards, 4 of which are Truesilver Champions:

Competitive Spirit
Divine Strength x2
Zombie Chow

A Light in the Darkness
Faerie Dragon
Haunted Creeper
Huge Toad
Ship's Cannon

Sword of Justice
Harvest Golem
Injured Blademaster x2
Squirming Tentacle

Truesilver Champion x4
Consecration
Chillwind Yeti
Dark Iron Dwarf
Hungry Dragon
Keeper of Uldaman
Piloted Shredder
Sen'jin Shieldmasta

Solemn Vigil
Stormpike Commando
Tuskarr Jouster

Captured Jormungar
Eldritch Horror

[PsyBomb]

Only 5 early plays will be rough, but if you get to the point that you're alternating turns popping a weapon with dropping a power play it might work out. Curious how it's going to pan out.

[Zevox]

Okay, either I have the worst luck, or Freeze Mage is terrible right now. I just tried to play it to do a simple 2 wins quest (because I didn't get enough of the new Shaman cards to play that), and oh my lord did I go on a losing streak. Everything from C'Thun Priest to Tempo Mage to a Yogg-Saron Spell Hunter to a terrible C'Thun Mage that ran, I kid you not, Frigid Snobolds - I just could not win. Holy crap it was awful. Losing Mad Scientist and Antique Healbot really feels like a bigger blow to that deck than I thought.

[PsyBomb]

Okay, either I have the worst luck, or Freeze Mage is terrible right now. I just tried to play it to do a simple 2 wins quest (because I didn't get enough of the new Shaman cards to play that), and oh my lord did I go on a losing streak. Everything from C'Thun Priest to Tempo Mage to a Yogg-Saron Spell Hunter to a terrible C'Thun Mage that ran, I kid you not, Frigid Snobolds - I just could not win. Holy crap it was awful. Losing Mad Scientist and Antique Healbot really feels like a bigger blow to that deck than I thought.

The anti-kill boys can be replaced by Farseers, but the Scientists really are rough. I ended up running RandoMage and praying for the quest.

[tonberrian]

The one time I get both a C'thun booster and a C'thun in brawl the opponent concedes right after I draw C'thun. So sad.

[Zevox]

The anti-kill boys can be replaced by Farseers, but the Scientists really are rough. I ended up running RandoMage and praying for the quest.
I don't think a Farseer is a sufficient replacement for the Healbot. It's minor heal. What the Healbot brought to the table was a big heal for later in the game, for which there isn't much replacement. I'm trying Cult Apothecary, under the logic that you can freeze plus play it, but it's... iffy.

Also, I'm quickly coming to hate the new "Wow" emote. Everybody uses it at the end of matches instead of "Well Played" now, and it always sounds so sarcastic. Mainly because if you mean "good game," "Well played" fits that far better. Why on earth they replaced "sorry" with it is totally beyond me.

[tonberrian]

Stablemaster + Giant Sand Worm. Against a large opponent board. It was glorious.

[Anxe]

Has anyone tried a, uh, tempo priest with shadowfiend as an enabler? (Ab)Use cost discounts to get bigger things and moar things out on the field? How does that sound?

I tried it once. Shadowfiend just dies too easily. I'm rarely able to keep it alive for longer than one turn. Ideally you'd play PWS on it to keep it alive, but I never got that combo while I was testing it out.

[Anarion]

I just played a ranked game of C'thun druid vs C'thun warrior. As it turned out, the C'thun was the bottom card of both our decks. I dealt over 60 damage to him through the course if the game and won by getting my C'thun a turn early via wild growth, draw, innervate, C'thun, which I had been saving for that exact purpose once I realized neither of us had it. Even with that, it came down to a 50-50 draw where he could have killed me but drew his second fiery war axe instead.

I just, ugh, I haven't even done the math, what are the odds it's the bottom card in both player's decks?

[Legoshrimp]

I tried it once. Shadowfiend just dies too easily. I'm rarely able to keep it alive for longer than one turn. Ideally you'd play PWS on it to keep it alive, but I never got that combo while I was testing it out.

You have to keep it alive for a ridiculously long time to expect it to ever be better then one tick of Thaurissan, but if you can keep it alive for that long you can probably keep Thaurissan alive for a turn or two which makes him way better.

Although his flavor text is good.
"Hopes to be promoted to "Shadowfriend" someday."


Hmm makes sense on the going first or second distinction. I probably haven't really been considering that enough while mulliganing.

Edit:
My gut reaction is 1/30*1/30 so 1/900, but I am probably wrong.

[AgentPaper]

My gut reaction is 1/30*1/30 so 1/900, but I am probably wrong.

No, that's correct. 1/900 or a 0.111% chance of happening.

[Anxe]

You have to keep it alive for a ridiculously long time to expect it to ever be better then one tick of Thaurissan, but if you can keep it alive for that long you can probably keep Thaurissan alive for a turn or two which makes him way better.

Although his flavor text is good.
"Hopes to be promoted to "Shadowfriend" someday."


Hmm makes sense on the going first or second distinction. I probably haven't really been considering that enough while mulliganing.

Edit:
My gut reaction is 1/30*1/30 so 1/900, but I am probably wrong.

It's probably a little bit worse than that because you'd mulligan him out of your starting hand. No idea on that math though! Good estimate!

[Legoshrimp]

It's probably a little bit worse than that because you'd mulligan him out of your starting hand. No idea on that math though! Good estimate!
Mulligan would make it better actually. Since it means some situations that guarantee it wouldn't happen are rerolled.
Assuming the only card you ever mulligan is c'thun. I think would actually change it to 1/26 or 1/27 based on if you are going first or second.
Because you know that c'thun will never be in your opening hand, so there are at least 3(4) cards that we know aren't c'thun.
So with this assumption it would be a 1/26*1/27 = .142% chance.
Of course this assumption is silly, and the math without it is going to change based on how many cards you mulligan.
So for the case you mulligan everything or nothing it is a 1/30 chance.
And I don't want to do the math to figure out the cases in between right now :smalltongue:
I might do it later.
Wait if you mulligan a card it isn't possible to draw it again right? So that complicates the math a bit.
Which actually would change the case were you mulligan everything. If you mulligan c'thun I think it is 1/26 or 1/27. If you don't have c'thun and mulligan everything I think that would lead to a lower then 1/30 chance that c'thun is at the bottom, because there is a higher chance you will draw him.

[The Glyphstone]

Can you not mulligan a card and then end up drawing that card immediately as its own replacement?

[Destro_Yersul]

Can you not mulligan a card and then end up drawing that card immediately as its own replacement?

No. If you have two copies in the deck you can draw the other copy, but somebody did a test once and the probability of being able to re-draw a card you've mulliganed is something like 1 in billions.

[Tentreto]

Anyone else been playing with the new Hogger recently? I put him in my proto C'thun priest on day 1 and haven't taken him out because he hard counters C'thun and draws removal for my later cards.
Aside from that, I don't think I have seen a single ladder rogue yet. All the rest were either 'don't want to play c'thun', 'play c'thun' and one lucky face hunter who lucked out from my lack of good heal draw.

[AgentPaper]

Ah, well if you take mulligans into account then it does get a bit more complicated, but not much.

With 3 cards to mulligan, there is a 1/30 chance that C'thun is at the bottom of your deck, and a 3/30 chance that it's one of your first three draws. If in that case, you mulligan'd all of your cards, then there would be a further 1/30 chance for C'thun to be put on the bottom of your deck. If you mulligan just C'thun and keep the other two cards, then it would be a 1/28 chance, since you're essentially removing two guaranteed "not c'thun" cards from the equation by holding on to them.

So, assuming you mulligan just C'thun, then the chance becomes:

1/30 + (3/30 * 1/28)
1/30 + (1/10 * 1/28)
1/30 + 1/280
28/840 + 3/840
31/840
1/~27 or 3.69%

Of course, this is for C'thun to be on the bottom of one deck. For two, you simply multiply again to get 1 in ~734 or a 0.136% chance.

[Legoshrimp]

Ah, well if you take mulligans into account then it does get a bit more complicated, but not much.

With 3 cards to mulligan, there is a 1/30 chance that C'thun is at the bottom of your deck, and a 3/30 chance that it's one of your first three draws. If in that case, you mulligan'd all of your cards, then there would be a further 1/30 chance for C'thun to be put on the bottom of your deck. If you mulligan just C'thun and keep the other two cards, then it would be a 1/28 chance, since you're essentially removing two guaranteed "not c'thun" cards from the equation by holding on to them.

So, assuming you mulligan just C'thun, then the chance becomes:

1/30 + (3/30 * 1/28)
1/30 + (1/10 * 1/28)
1/30 + 1/280
28/840 + 3/840
31/840
1/~27 or 3.69%

Of course, this is for C'thun to be on the bottom of one deck. For two, you simply multiply again to get 1 in ~734 or a 0.136% chance.

I think it is 1/27 or 1/26. Whatever you draw to replace is also guaranteed not to be c'thun. I think what happens during the mulligan is:
1. choose cards to be mulliganed
2. draw replacements for those cards.
3. shuffle mulliganed cards into deck.
So if you mulligan c'thun you can guarantee whatever you draw is not going to be c'thun, and doesn't effect the ordering of the other cards in your deck.

Also are you sure it is 3/30? wouldn't it be more like 1/30+1/29+1/28?
Edit: It seems I am wrong.

[Sith_Happens]

No. If you have two copies in the deck you can draw the other copy, but somebody did a test once and the probability of being able to re-draw a card you've mulliganed is something like 1 in billions.

Then what does it say about me that I've had two or three instances of starting with two of a card in my hand, mulliganing them both, and immediately redrawing them both?:smallyuk:

[AgentPaper]

I think it is 1/27 or 1/26. Whatever you draw to replace is also guaranteed not to be c'thun. I think what happens during the mulligan is:
1. choose cards to be mulliganed
2. draw replacements for those cards.
3. shuffle mulliganed cards into deck.
So if you mulligan c'thun you can guarantee whatever you draw is not going to be c'thun, and doesn't effect the ordering of the other cards in your deck.

Nope, you can definitely re-draw the card you mulligan. Had it happen to me at least a couple times with cards I only had a single copy of.


Also are you sure it is 3/30? wouldn't it be more like 1/30+1/29+1/28?

It's 3/30. When you draw the first card, there's a 1/30 chance that you get C'thun, and a 29/30 chance that C'thun is still in your deck. When you draw your second card, there is a 1/30 chance that you draw C'thun, a 28/30 chance that he's still in your deck, and a 1/30 chance that you already drew him. And of course when you draw your third card, you have a 1/30 chance to draw C'thun, a 27/30 chance he's still in your deck, and a 2/30 chance that you already drew him.

[Legoshrimp]

Nope, you can definitely re-draw the card you mulligan. Had it happen to me at least a couple times with cards I only had a single copy of.


I think the problem is you aren't supposed to be able to.
Edit: sources.
https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/458778760464982017
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Mulligan
Unless they specifically made a change at some point.



It's 3/30. When you draw the first card, there's a 1/30 chance that you get C'thun, and a 29/30 chance that C'thun is still in your deck. When you draw your second card, there is a 1/30 chance that you draw C'thun, a 28/30 chance that he's still in your deck, and a 1/30 chance that you already drew him. And of course when you draw your third card, you have a 1/30 chance to draw C'thun, a 27/30 chance he's still in your deck, and a 2/30 chance that you already drew him.

Thanks a lot, I knew I was missing something obvious.

[Destro_Yersul]

Then what does it say about me that I've had two or three instances of starting with two of a card in my hand, mulliganing them both, and immediately redrawing them both?:smallyuk:


Nope, you can definitely re-draw the card you mulligan. Had it happen to me at least a couple times with cards I only had a single copy of.

Exhibit A (https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/537460645289930753)

You cannot redraw mulliganed cards. If you do, it's not working as intended.

[AgentPaper]

Exhibit A (https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/537460645289930753)

You cannot redraw mulliganed cards. If you do, it's not working as intended.

Perhaps they fixed it, but I know it at least used to be possible. Don't know for sure if it still is.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Perhaps they fixed it, but I know it at least used to be possible. Don't know for sure if it still is.
It's quite possible that it's a bug in HS code. Wouldn't be the first time.

[The Glyphstone]

Whelp. So 58 Old God packs later, my total new cards:


Commons
D- Mark of Y'shaarj x2
D- Feral Rage x1
D- Dark Arrakoa x2
H- Fiery Bat x2
H- On The Hunt x2
H- Carrion Grub x2
M- Shatter x2
M- Twilight Flamecaller x2
M- Demented Frostcaller x2
M- Faceless Summoner x2
Pa- Divine Strength x2
Pa- A Light In The Darkness x2
Pa- Stand Against Darkness x2
Pr- Hooded Acolyte x2
Pr- Darkshire Alchemist x2
Pr- Power Word Tentacles x2
R- Bladed Cultist x2
R- Shadow Strike x2
R- Southsea Squidface x2
S- Primal Fusion x2
S- Stormcrack x2
S- Flamewreathed Faceless
Wl- Possessed Villager x2
Wl- Darkshire Councilman x2
Wl- Usher of Souls x2
Wr- N'Zoth's First Mate x2
Wr- Ravaging Ghoul x2
Wr- Bloodhoof Brave x2
N- Tentacle of N'Zoth x2
N- Zealous Initiate x2
N- Beckoner of Evil x2
N- Bilefin Tidehunter x2
N- Duskboar x2
N- Twilight Geomancer x2
N- Twisted Worgen x2
N- Am'agam Rager x2
N- Spawn of N'zoth x2
N- Squirming Tentacle x2
N- Twilight Elder x2
N- Abberant Berzerker x2
N- C'thun's Chosen x2
N- Evolved Kobold x2
N- Infested Tauren x2
N- Polluted Horror x2
N- Cult Apothecary x2
N- Psych-o-Tron x2
N- Nerubian Prophet x2
N- Bog Creeper x2
N- Grotesque Dragonhawk x2
N- Eldritch Horror x2
N- Faceless Behemoth

Rares
D- Addled Grizzly x2
D- Klaazi Amber-Weaver x2
D- Mire Keeper x2
H- Forlorn Stalker x2
H- Infest x2
H- Infested Wolf x2
M- Cult Sorcerer x2
M- Servant of Yogg-Saron x2
Pa- Selfless Hero x2
Pa- Rallying Blade x2
Pa- Steward of Darkshire x2
Pr - Shadow Word: Horror x2
Pr - Shifting Shade x2
Pr - Twilight Darkmender
R - Journey Below x2
R - Undercity Huckster x2
R- Thistle Tea x2
S- Evolve
S- Master of Evolution
S- Thing From Below
Wl- Forbidden Ritual
Wl- Spreading Madness x2
Wr- Blood To Ichor
Wr- Bloodsail Cultist x2
N- Disciple of C'thun
N- Silithid Swarmer x2
N- Blackwater Pirate x2
N- Eater of Secrets
N- Midnight Drake
N- Corrupted Seer
N- Skeram Cultist x2
N- Doomcaller x2


Epics
H- Giant Sand Worm
M- Cabalist's Tome
M- Forbidden Flame x2
Pa - Forbidden Healing
Pr - Embrace The Shadows
R - Blade of C'thun
S- Eternal Sentinel
N- Cyclopean Horror x2
N- Faceless Shambler
N- Twilight Summoner

Legendaries
Shifter Zerus :smallfrown:
C'thun.


Plus 1105 dust from duplicates.

I've got a decent Zoo put together already, based off the list posted in the last thread with a few substitutions for high-end cards I don't own like Gormok, but I do want a C'thun deck too. Which hero's C'thun deck am I best set to run for the lowest crafting cost? Got 3360 dust to burn.

[Fleeing Coward]

Been a Reno Warrior player, I'm pretty sure that I've been given the cards I mulliganed multiple times.

[Beelzebub1111]

Neat, when your opponent becomes Ragnaros, you can steal his hero power with Sideshow Spelleater. And if he's got no minions, its a one turn kill. How about that.

[Destro_Yersul]

Been a Reno Warrior player, I'm pretty sure that I've been given the cards I mulliganed multiple times.

Tested it just now. Deck of 30 unique cards, ten mulligans. 35 cards mulliganed. Not once did I draw a card I'd mulliganed. Now, that's not a huge sample size, but combined with the tweet from Ben Brode saying that drawing a card you mulliganed isn't supposed to happen, the system seems to be working as intended.

[thirsting]

Never noticed it happening with one-offs either. Somewhat related:

Most likely it's just confirmation bias on my part, but it seems that the cards I decide to shuffle back to deck have way, way better than random chance of being drawn as the first new card when the game starts.

"No! Go back! I don't want you yet, highmana C'thunlhu/Firefromthesky/Indianaclone!"

[Rodin]

The more I play, the more I wonder what the HELL Blizzard was thinking with the "Wow!" emote. It's the most condescending and abusive emote they could have put in, and I literally have never seen anyone use it with any intent other than BMing.

I also have a hard time believing that they didn't think this through, but that's the conspiracy theorist in me.

[tonberrian]

The more I play, the more I wonder what the HELL Blizzard was thinking with the "Wow!" emote. It's the most condescending and abusive emote they could have put in, and I literally have never seen anyone use it with any intent other than BMing.

I also have a hard time believing that they didn't think this through, but that's the conspiracy theorist in me.

I've seen it when I topdeck into a win. But for the most part I just ignore emotes.

[Legoshrimp]

I am pretty sure the entire point of the wow emote is to BM. They just think that something that is obvious bm is less annoying then constantly saying i'm sorry.


Edit
Also I got to r5 with your zoo deck Rosstin. I had about 75% win rate with it. So far at r5 I have just been trading wins. It seems like people have better RNG here.

[tonberrian]

Um. Moira Bronzebeard's AI is broken in the adventure. She's attacking my minions. What do?

[Ionbound]

Well...Against my better judgement, I've gotten back into HS. I'm running C'thun Rogue, which seems to actually be pretty good at winning the game without big daddy, but yesterday, I had the dream happen. I have a Blade of C'thun in hand, but on T8, I sprint, digging for C'thun. I find him, and even better, the enemy's t9 is Nefarian. I drop the Blade, eating the 8/8 and feeding him to C'thun, then the next turn, I get to drop a 24/24 C'thun for lethal. Felt sooo good.

[Legoshrimp]

shaman is so broken right now...

[PsyBomb]

Um. Moira Bronzebeard's AI is broken in the adventure. She's attacking my minions. What do?

Blizzard is working on it, according to them. Just either have to be patient for the fix, or else use a VERY strange deck that keeps her from killing herself.

[neriractor]

The more I play, the more I wonder what the HELL Blizzard was thinking with the "Wow!" emote. It's the most condescending and abusive emote they could have put in, and I literally have never seen anyone use it with any intent other than BMing.

I also have a hard time believing that they didn't think this through, but that's the conspiracy theorist in me.

I used it the first two days when I saw a druid on ladder since I was genuinely surprised to see them trying after the nerfs, but aside from that Is mostly for showing that something was terrible/great RNG.

[Tome]

Can I get added to the EU player list? I'm Taejix#2836.

My dragon priest and tempo mage decks have survived pretty much unchanged into standard. Dragon priest picked up some midnight drakes and a shadow word: horror.

I've also given totem shaman and c'thun warrior a try. Both are pretty fun to play. :smallbiggrin:

[Grytorm]

It is hilarious to watch bad hearthstone players (Total Biscuit and Crendor) complaining about C'thun. It is somehow simultaneously amusing and painful. They didn't even realize it did damage when played. They both thought it was a beatstick.

[Anarion]

Well, math discussion was interesting. Good to know that I'm special, at any rate. :smalltongue:

I've also mulliganed and redrawn C'thun, so I'm guessing there's a bug in the code somewhere, but I haven't a clue what the odds are for it.

[OrcusMcP]

I realised I should add my name to the roster: Orcus#1805 Americas

[Yana]

It is hilarious to watch bad hearthstone players (Total Biscuit and Crendor) complaining about C'thun. It is somehow simultaneously amusing and painful. They didn't even realize it did damage when played. They both thought it was a beatstick.

That video was hilarious just for the moment when Totalbiscuit used Tinkmaster Overspark to polymorph Crendor's C'thun... only for it to backfire horribly and turn his own Tirion into a squirrel.

His long drawn out "NOOOOOOOOOO!" was highly amusing. Crendor joking that he obviously didn't put his faith in the light was even more so.

[Zevox]

It is hilarious to watch bad hearthstone players (Total Biscuit and Crendor) complaining about C'thun. It is somehow simultaneously amusing and painful. They didn't even realize it did damage when played. They both thought it was a beatstick.
Seriously? Sheesh. I haven't watched Total Biscuit's videos in forever, but even though I remember him being pretty bad, I'm surprised he somehow completely missed C'Thun's card text. Which is, you know, the only reason the card is any good.

[tonberrian]

On Thaurissan: apparently, the bug only applies to minions under 3 attack. So if you play only minions with 0 attack, or 3 or higher, Moira won't suicide into anything.

Beat him on first try with a mage deck once I learned that.

[Mando Knight]

Only 5 early plays will be rough, but if you get to the point that you're alternating turns popping a weapon with dropping a power play it might work out. Curious how it's going to pan out.

Went 2-3. The first loss was to a Mage who had all the answers to what I'd drawn, the second was to a Rogue with an extremely strong first turn (Chow, coin, Bladed Cultist) that Burgled Tirion to counter my comeback (I would have won that one if I'd drawn a Truesilver or Consecration on the last turn instead of Haunted Creeper), and the third was a Shaman that had more and better late game than I did, including a Grim Patron (which is extremely difficult for a Paladin to deal with when behind on the board, especially if you haven't drawn another Truesilver).

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Will the ranked seasons change over as scheduled? I imagine Standard/Wild and WOTOG coming in so late in the month might have affected folks' ladder runs.

[Anarion]

Will the ranked seasons change over as scheduled? I imagine Standard/Wild and WOTOG coming in so late in the month might have affected folks' ladder runs.

I think it's still going to reset as normal. We all experienced the rough transition together and there's nothing wrong with rewarding a few good innovators with a strong season end sometimes.

[Zevox]

You know, I'd really like to grind to rank 5 for that sweet end-season reward, now that I've got a new set to spend dust on again, but sadly the last day of the season happens to fall on a day when I've got things to do, including my weekly D&D game. So unless I do some late-night, almost literal last-minute grinding afterward, I think I'm ending in the 7-8 range. :smallfrown:

Oh well, that's still way higher than I've done the past few months, just because Whispers and Standard have made me want to play ranked a lot more than I have... well, pretty much since they were announced, actually.

[Rosstin]

I am pretty sure the entire point of the wow emote is to BM. They just think that something that is obvious bm is less annoying then constantly saying i'm sorry.


Edit
Also I got to r5 with your zoo deck Rosstin. I had about 75% win rate with it. So far at r5 I have just been trading wins. It seems like people have better RNG here.

It was super excellent right when the meta switched over. I'm sure the winrate will dip as the meta stabilizes. I was super lucky to get all those wins in a row to skip to Legend.

[The Glyphstone]

Heck, I was using it in my modified form (missing Gormok) and I'm bouncing back and forth around Rank 16. It has to get really lucky to overpower a control deck, and a lot of the C'thun decks people use at lower ranks are control oriented.

[Anarion]

The last couple days I've been seeing a really solid paladin control deck that uses the deathrattle god to good effect. The combination of doomsayers, equality, consecrate, and pyromancer, plus humility and Aldor (basically the same shell as the murloc deck) plus a few good death rattle minions like Cairn, Sylvanus, the new healbots, and Tirion leads to an incredibly dominating board. Forbidden healing also means if you just last vs. aggro, you can go back up to above 20 no problem a turn after wiping the board.

[PsyBomb]

The last couple days I've been seeing a really solid paladin control deck that uses the deathrattle god to good effect. The combination of doomsayers, equality, consecrate, and pyromancer, plus humility and Aldor (basically the same shell as the murloc deck) plus a few good death rattle minions like Cairn, Sylvanus, the new healbots, and Tirion leads to an incredibly dominating board. Forbidden healing also means if you just last vs. aggro, you can go back up to above 20 no problem a turn after wiping the board.

Huh, I've been running into a Shield Rush variation. Aggro shell, steward, that 2/1, and a bunch of cheap blessings to generate two-for-ones and go face when able.

[Anarion]

Huh, I've been running into a Shield Rush variation. Aggro shell, steward, that 2/1, and a bunch of cheap blessings to generate two-for-ones and go face when able.

I've seen that deck, but I think it sucks. :smalltongue:

Edit: You're not likely to see the control paladin below rank 5ish, by the by, it's a really expensive deck to craft. You're running a whole bunch of legendaries and epics.

[Infernally Clay]

Got a link for the list? I may already have most of it.

[The Glyphstone]

Whelp. So 58 Old God packs later, my total new cards:


Commons
D- Mark of Y'shaarj x2
D- Feral Rage x1
D- Dark Arrakoa x2
H- Fiery Bat x2
H- On The Hunt x2
H- Carrion Grub x2
M- Shatter x2
M- Twilight Flamecaller x2
M- Demented Frostcaller x2
M- Faceless Summoner x2
Pa- Divine Strength x2
Pa- A Light In The Darkness x2
Pa- Stand Against Darkness x2
Pr- Hooded Acolyte x2
Pr- Darkshire Alchemist x2
Pr- Power Word Tentacles x2
R- Bladed Cultist x2
R- Shadow Strike x2
R- Southsea Squidface x2
S- Primal Fusion x2
S- Stormcrack x2
S- Flamewreathed Faceless
Wl- Possessed Villager x2
Wl- Darkshire Councilman x2
Wl- Usher of Souls x2
Wr- N'Zoth's First Mate x2
Wr- Ravaging Ghoul x2
Wr- Bloodhoof Brave x2
N- Tentacle of N'Zoth x2
N- Zealous Initiate x2
N- Beckoner of Evil x2
N- Bilefin Tidehunter x2
N- Duskboar x2
N- Twilight Geomancer x2
N- Twisted Worgen x2
N- Am'agam Rager x2
N- Spawn of N'zoth x2
N- Squirming Tentacle x2
N- Twilight Elder x2
N- Abberant Berzerker x2
N- C'thun's Chosen x2
N- Evolved Kobold x2
N- Infested Tauren x2
N- Polluted Horror x2
N- Cult Apothecary x2
N- Psych-o-Tron x2
N- Nerubian Prophet x2
N- Bog Creeper x2
N- Grotesque Dragonhawk x2
N- Eldritch Horror x2
N- Faceless Behemoth

Rares
D- Addled Grizzly x2
D- Klaazi Amber-Weaver x2
D- Mire Keeper x2
H- Forlorn Stalker x2
H- Infest x2
H- Infested Wolf x2
M- Cult Sorcerer x2
M- Servant of Yogg-Saron x2
Pa- Selfless Hero x2
Pa- Rallying Blade x2
Pa- Steward of Darkshire x2
Pr - Shadow Word: Horror x2
Pr - Shifting Shade x2
Pr - Twilight Darkmender
R - Journey Below x2
R - Undercity Huckster x2
R- Thistle Tea x2
S- Evolve
S- Master of Evolution
S- Thing From Below
Wl- Forbidden Ritual
Wl- Spreading Madness x2
Wr- Blood To Ichor
Wr- Bloodsail Cultist x2
N- Disciple of C'thun
N- Silithid Swarmer x2
N- Blackwater Pirate x2
N- Eater of Secrets
N- Midnight Drake
N- Corrupted Seer
N- Skeram Cultist x2
N- Doomcaller x2


Epics
H- Giant Sand Worm
M- Cabalist's Tome
M- Forbidden Flame x2
Pa - Forbidden Healing
Pr - Embrace The Shadows
R - Blade of C'thun
S- Eternal Sentinel
N- Cyclopean Horror x2
N- Faceless Shambler
N- Twilight Summoner

Legendaries
Shifter Zerus :smallfrown:
C'thun.


Plus 1105 dust from duplicates.

I've got a decent Zoo put together already, based off the list posted in the last thread with a few substitutions for high-end cards I don't own like Gormok, but I do want a C'thun deck too. Which hero's C'thun deck am I best set to run for the lowest crafting cost? Got 3360 dust to burn.

Anyone? My gut tells me C'thun Druid is my best option, with double Amber-Keepers and double Arrakoa available, but I'm not sure.

[Mando Knight]

I think Druid is your best bet, yeah. You'll probably want Vek'lor and another Disciple of C'Thun to round out the deck.

[Beelzebub1111]

INteresting. IF you don't have a C'thun in your deck, and you summon C'thun booster. It boosts the C'thun you don't own, if you get C'thun from forbidden shaping.

[Kish]

Makes sense. It appears that "Your C'Thun's current stats" are tracked as a hidden stat the hero has, with the actual C'Thun minion having its stats set to equal to that statline (and possibly modified after that; if "Your C'Thun's current stats" reach 10/10, then you play C'Thun, then your opponent casts Humility (or Execute) on C'Thun, then you play a Twin Emperor, you still get both Twin Emperors because while C'Thun's Attack is 1 (or "dead"), "Your C'Thun's current stats" are still set to 10/10).

[OrcusMcP]

It also means that if a Priest Entombs your C'Thun and you boost it, it boost the C'Thun that is now in your opponent's deck.

[Kish]

I wonder what happens if a priest Thoughtsteals or Mind Visions your C'Thun. Do the original and the copy both use the "Your C'Thun" statline, or does one become a "The Priest's C'Thun"?

[Rodin]

Got a link for the list? I may already have most of it.

For Control Paladin, the lists I've seen vary a bit from pure control to mid-range with N'Zoth finisher, but the basic backbone seems to look like this:

2x Forbidden Healing
1-2x Lay on Hands
1x Ragnaros, Lightlord

2x Wild Pyromancer
2x Equality
2x Consecration
2x Doomsayer

2x Aldor Peacekeepr
2x Keeper of Uldaman
2x Truesilver Champion

1x Tyrion
1x Cairne
1x Sylvanas
1x N'Zoth


Deck plays like Anyfin where you just keep clearing the board and healing for ridiculously massive amounts. Play Cairne, Tyrion, and Sylvanas. Play Ragnaros once you're sure your opponent is running out of removal. Once they've used all their major board clears, play N'Zoth and laugh at them.

I want to build this deck, but I need both Cairne and N'Zoth, and that's a step too far. Maybe the Hearthstone gods will be kind to me and grant me a gold legendary from an Arena pack or a quest reward.

[Rodin]

I wonder what happens if a priest Thoughtsteals or Mind Visions your C'Thun. Do the original and the copy both use the "Your C'Thun" statline, or does one become a "The Priest's C'Thun"?

They use the priest's C'Thun. I don't know what happens when a C'Thun priest steals it, but when I stole somebody's as a non-C'Thun priest the one I got was a 6/6.

[Kish]

I would be surprised if a priest who already had a C'Thun tracked both their stats separately. For one thing that would mean the copied C'Thun was permanently locked at 6/6. Most likely buffers hit them both.

[neriractor]

I would be surprised if a priest who already had a C'Thun tracked both their stats separately. For one thing that would mean the copied C'Thun was permanently locked at 6/6. Most likely buffers hit them both.

It does buff them both, it actually happened to me a couple of games ago, I would have paid to see the look in my opponents face after I dropped the second 20-something C'thun in a row.

[tonberrian]

What about that shadow-something rogue card that creates a 1/1 copy? Does that get all the buffs too?

[Joran]

Any ideas for Y'shaarg? I pulled him at realease but I can't think of anything to do with him straight away.

I'd think an Astral Communion deck. He's a great drop if you top deck it. Otherwise, he's the worst of the Old Gods (and I have one from a pack =P)


Never noticed it happening with one-offs either. Somewhat related:

Most likely it's just confirmation bias on my part, but it seems that the cards I decide to shuffle back to deck have way, way better than random chance of being drawn as the first new card when the game starts.


Yup. Also, confirmation bias, if I lose a game because I desperately need a card (Reno, Flamestrike, whatever), I will invariably draw it in my first hand the next game. "WHERE WERE YOU!"

I also had my best Yogg result; I was playing Eloise's Patron/Yogg deck and was close to dead. Yogg got me Call of the Wild and Force of Nature, giving me a taunt and minions to do trades the next turn to win. First time he's ever won me the game.

Also, Corrupted Hogger is surprisingly not terrible in the deck.

Edit: Second straight game where I Wild Pyromancer -> Corrupted Hogger -> Inner Rage Hogger for a 8/4, 2/2 taunt and a 2/1 taunt. Dr. Boom eat your heart out (with 2 extra mana and 2 extra cards). Those taunts were very useful though.

[Thialfi]

I know this isn't exactly news, but Call of the Wild is amazing. I'm playing hunter for the first time and I'm using a midrange deathrattle deck. I though N'Zoth would be my finisher, but Call of the Wild has finished far more games for me. I really like the deck I'm using;

Hunter's Mark
Fiery Bat x2
Quick Shot x2
King's Elek x2
Knife Juggler x2
Loot Hoarder x2
Animal Companion x2
Kill Command x2
Unleash the Hounds x2
Forlorn Stalker
Houndmaster x2
Infested Wolf x2
Princess Huhuran
Ram Wrangler
Savannah Highmane x2
Sylvannas Windrunner
Call of the Wild x2
N'Zoth the Corruptor

[Grytorm]

Well I disenchanted a few things and made N'zoth. Haven't had time to run it in that paladin style deck (with Tuskar Jouster instead of Forbidden Healing) or in a Priest Deck. But I have definitely made the weirdest semi serious deck imaginable.

N'zoth - Elise - Reno Jackson with about 10 duplicates. Rogue.

Although given the presence of Sprint it is a bit easier to get away with Reno with many duplicates With Valeera. But it is still hilariously dumb most of the time.

[otakuryoga]

It is hilarious to watch bad hearthstone players (Total Biscuit and Crendor) complaining about C'thun. It is somehow simultaneously amusing and painful. They didn't even realize it did damage when played. They both thought it was a beatstick.


Seriously? Sheesh. I haven't watched Total Biscuit's videos in forever, but even though I remember him being pretty bad, I'm surprised he somehow completely missed C'Thun's card text. Which is, you know, the only reason the card is any good.

never seen the guys
but just from these descriptions it sounds like the "badness" is on purpose(i.e. an act)

[Zevox]

never seen the guys
but just from these descriptions it sounds like the "badness" is on purpose(i.e. an act)
Oh no, I completely believe TotalBiscuit at least is genuine (not familiar with the other guy). The videos I saw from him make him out to be a very casual player who is just genuinely ignorant of how higher-level play for the game works. But he's to a degree aware of that and acknowledges it, he just doesn't care, because he doesn't take the game particularly seriously. His main thing was making up "gimmick" decks (though they really tend to be more themed than an actual gimmick) for the hell of it just to see how they did.

He was at least decent enough to be able to explain even at the start of his videos on Demon Warlock (pre-expansions, when only a couple of the demons weren't awful) and the Deck of Legends (literally a deck of 30 legendaries) why those decks are bad, though. And never do I recall him showing any obviously exaggerated ignorance, like thinking that clearly bad cards were good. He just wasn't very good at the game in general, and evinced no interest in learning to be good at it.

[Hamste]

never seen the guys
but just from these descriptions it sounds like the "badness" is on purpose(i.e. an act)

With Crendor it might be an act (Or might be real...I'm never quite sure with Crendor and don't watch enough of his stuff to even guess) but Totalbiscuit doesn't really like to act dumber than he is. I don't see how he would not have read what C'Thun does but I can't imagine him pandering to his stream audience beyond maybe complaining a bit more than usual. He is just not that good at hearthstone and neither is Crendor from what we saw.

[AgentPaper]

I wonder what happens if a priest Thoughtsteals or Mind Visions your C'Thun. Do the original and the copy both use the "Your C'Thun" statline, or does one become a "The Priest's C'Thun"?

I don't know for sure, but given how other interactions work, I'd expect it to create a 6/6 C'thun for you, unless you've played C'thun buffing minions yourself.

[Zevox]

I wonder what happens if a priest Thoughtsteals or Mind Visions your C'Thun. Do the original and the copy both use the "Your C'Thun" statline, or does one become a "The Priest's C'Thun"?
I'd wager they use yours. I Entombed an enemy C'Thun with my own C'Thun Priest earlier today, and when I drew them (back-to-back), both were 17/17s, while my opponent's had been a 21/21 when it came down. So I'm pretty sure any copy of C'Thun in your deck/hand uses stats based on the buffs you've played, never the ones your opponent has played.

[Sith_Happens]

The more I play, the more I wonder what the HELL Blizzard was thinking with the "Wow!" emote. It's the most condescending and abusive emote they could have put in, and I literally have never seen anyone use it with any intent other than BMing.

Personally I'm starting to think that they added it specifically so people have something to press halfway through Yogg-Saron going off.:smalltongue:


Went 2-3. The first loss was to a Mage who had all the answers to what I'd drawn, the second was to a Rogue with an extremely strong first turn (Chow, coin, Bladed Cultist) that Burgled Tirion to counter my comeback (I would have won that one if I'd drawn a Truesilver or Consecration on the last turn instead of Haunted Creeper), and the third was a Shaman that had more and better late game than I did, including a Grim Patron (which is extremely difficult for a Paladin to deal with when behind on the board, especially if you haven't drawn another Truesilver).

I haven't played Arena in months because this kind of BS kept happening to me EVERY time. LITERALLY all of them.:smallfurious:

[AgentPaper]

I'd wager they use yours. I Entombed an enemy C'Thun with my own C'Thun Priest earlier today, and when I drew them (back-to-back), both were 17/17s, while my opponent's had been a 21/21 when it came down. So I'm pretty sure any copy of C'Thun in your deck/hand uses stats based on the buffs you've played, never the ones your opponent has played.

Yep, and this is true even if you didn't have C'thun in your deck originally. In the last Tavern Brawl, I played the 2/3 "Give C'thun +2/+2" card early on, but no animation played since C'thun himself wasn't in the deck (I assume). Later played Forbidden Shaping for 10, got C'thun, and he was an 8/8 rather than a 6/6.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Ran into an unusual (for me anyway, since I don't play ranked all that much) Golden Monkey Renolock.

It looked like Handlock at first, but he basically plays Elise as soon as he has the mana for it, with the Map going in soon after. He continues to load his hand with token efforts at maintaining board presence. Reno when his life dips a bit low.

He Monkeys. Then out of his full hand he plays Varian Wyrnn, bringing out fat legends including the 5/9 Taunt that can't be targeted. Varian when you can guarantee three legends is a pretty sweet play, and I have no answer for it.

Most other Warlocks I see tend to be board flood types, so it was an interesting experience.

[TheNU]

On release day I went with a hunter version. I have a video of it on my YouTube channel. Have to post it later. Anyways I think it's sort of bad they didn't give every class something to work with him. That is a bummer as it does look like Priest and Druid are the best classes to run him.

Not overly impressed but love standard and wild formats. Given I'm a old seasonal MTG player I'm use to limited cars pools. It makes for great deck building and all.

Like I said wasn't impressed but love some cards. I love playing overly underpowered or cards that seem bad. Like I love Deathwing and building cards around him.

[Legoshrimp]

So I added a MCT to my zoo deck to help vs other aggro decks. So far it is working out really well.
Also more importantly. Someone just mulched my flame imp and I got deathwing.


Edit: which in fact did definitely lead to him dying. Might have won anyways if he didn't run mulch, but playing deathwing destroyed a huge board he had built up.
Apparently mulch is A terrible card :smalltongue:

[Kish]

Using it on a flame imp certainly is. If he'd used it on Deathwing and you'd gotten a Flame Imp, now...

I'd wager they use yours. I Entombed an enemy C'Thun with my own C'Thun Priest earlier today, and when I drew them (back-to-back), both were 17/17s, while my opponent's had been a 21/21 when it came down. So I'm pretty sure any copy of C'Thun in your deck/hand uses stats based on the buffs you've played, never the ones your opponent has played.
You seem to have missed posts in the thread.

[gomipile]

My Rank 15 end of season rewards included a golden Blade Flurry. That was good timing, for a much appreciated 800 dust.

[Hamste]

Yep, and this is true even if you didn't have C'thun in your deck originally. In the last Tavern Brawl, I played the 2/3 "Give C'thun +2/+2" card early on, but no animation played since C'thun himself wasn't in the deck (I assume). Later played Forbidden Shaping for 10, got C'thun, and he was an 8/8 rather than a 6/6.

A slight tip, 8 mana minions are better for shaping than 10 mana minions. 10 mana minions there are two 12/12 (ok but kind of mediocre as they are just beat sticks, one is great with a dragon deck), a 10/10 old god which is great, 3 old gods which are horrible (C'Thun might be good if you play that deck), 2 giant which are bad and Varian which is bad.


8 gets you Gromash which is mediocre to good depending on board state, ironbark protector which is better than half of the 10, Rhonin who is good, giant sandstorm which is mediocre to bad even with priest healing, Al'Akir which is kind of bad, Ragnaros the lightlord which is good, Tirion which is amazing, Ragnaros the firelord which is amazing, Fossilized devilsaur which is bad, Chromagus which is either amazing or bad depending on board state, Gruul who is a better giant and the bogeymonster who is horrible.

You are usually better off using hero power first as you are much more likely to affect the board that way.

[ShinyRocks]

So I think The Thing From Below is really good? Playing around with a totem Shaman deck. As long as I can get a Tuskarr Totemic, or a Totem Golem out in 1, 2 or 3, and hero power at some other point (which is pretty easy), then it's a 5/5 taunt on turn 4. And from there it's just a decent way to protect the board I'm building up - Mukla's Champion, Thunder Bluff Valiant etc etc. Eventually it's a 5/5 taunt for 0 mana, which is never bad.

[Beelzebub1111]

So I think The Thing From Below is really good? Playing around with a totem Shaman deck. As long as I can get a Tuskarr Totemic, or a Totem Golem out in 1, 2 or 3, and hero power at some other point (which is pretty easy), then it's a 5/5 taunt on turn 4. And from there it's just a decent way to protect the board I'm building up - Mukla's Champion, Thunder Bluff Valiant etc etc. Eventually it's a 5/5 taunt for 0 mana, which is never bad.

Not only that but it counts as 6 mana for evolution.

[Zevox]

I actually just ran into somebody trying to use Secret Paladin in Standard. Unsurprisingly, it did not do very well. Even when Challenger came down - so what? Noble Sacrifice, Redemption, Repentance, and Competitive Spirit? Not so scary without Avenge. And without the missing early game, I was in a perfectly fine position to respond when Challenger arrived, so even if I hadn't had Hex in my hand (playing Darwin Shaman - I crafted the rares I still needed with dust from the end-of-season rewards), I'd have still been fine.

Yeah, not sad to see that deck reduced to its current state, not at all.

[Thialfi]

I actually just ran into somebody trying to use Secret Paladin in Standard. Unsurprisingly, it did not do very well. Even when Challenger came down - so what? Noble Sacrifice, Redemption, Repentance, and Competitive Spirit? Not so scary without Avenge. And without the missing early game, I was in a perfectly fine position to respond when Challenger arrived, so even if I hadn't had Hex in my hand (playing Darwin Shaman - I crafted the rares I still needed with dust from the end-of-season rewards), I'd have still been fine.

Yeah, not sad to see that deck reduced to its current state, not at all.

I'm running N'Zoth and C'Thun in my paladin deck and using divine shield minions to get me through the early game. It's working pretty well. Steward of Darkshire is really nice with 2 loot hoarders, 2 selfless heroes, and 2 disciples of C'Thun in the deck.

I did get to drop N'Zoth in a control game and it flooded the board with N'Zoth, Tirion, Cairne, 2 Loot hoarders, and 2 Selfless Heroes. That was fun.

[ChaosOS]

I'm curious if Aggro Paladin will manage to come together without the powerhouse Minibot->Muster combo to hold it up, but N'Zoth control paladin certainly seems to be a deck now that Paladin has some pretty insane healing with Forbidden Healing and Rag, Lightlord. Unfortunately, while I have Tirion, I am distinctly lacking in Sylvanas, Cairne (Had him a while ago but he got DEd when I was starting out to build my starter zoo, plus I figured he'd never be relevant again) and N'zoth, oh and either rag.

Currently I'm working on putting together standard Reno C'thun Rogue, right now I'm short a Thalnos, Xaril, and Shadowcaster. I think I'll go for Journey Below as a Xaril replacement but I need to craft Thalnos and a Shadowcaster still so I'm waiting a bit to see if any of the next few packs I get give me what I need.

[Zevox]

Well, I've reached a bit of a milestone. Since Whispers/Standard released, I've finished leveling five classes to 60: Druid, Priest, Paladin, Shaman, and Warrior. Since I already had Mage and Warlock there, that means my only classes left below that are Rogue (49) and Hunter (21) - the latter of which will never be much, if any, higher than it is now, while the former I'm just waiting on getting a deck I actually like that isn't bad.

Right now I do have a midrange Raptor Rogue I'm using to some success, but I'm sure there will be better. Well, maybe. They seem pretty absent from the ladder, aside from the odd one trying to do a N'Zoth deathrattle deck (my Raptor Rogue does not run N'Zoth, since I don't have him and wanted it to be more a midrange deck anyway), but even those are few and far between.

[Tvtyrant]

Anyone else doing Paladin Murlocs in standard? The new ones add a lot to the deck, although they don't match well with Any Fin.

[Legoshrimp]

Well, I've reached a bit of a milestone. Since Whispers/Standard released, I've finished leveling five classes to 60: Druid, Priest, Paladin, Shaman, and Warrior. Since I already had Mage and Warlock there, that means my only classes left below that are Rogue (49) and Hunter (21) - the latter of which will never be much, if any, higher than it is now, while the former I'm just waiting on getting a deck I actually like that isn't bad.

Right now I do have a midrange Raptor Rogue I'm using to some success, but I'm sure there will be better. Well, maybe. They seem pretty absent from the ladder, aside from the odd one trying to do a N'Zoth deathrattle deck (my Raptor Rogue does not run N'Zoth, since I don't have him and wanted it to be more a midrange deck anyway), but even those are few and far between.
Congrats.
I am almost at 60 with only warlock. Although I think I will be playing more so I think I am going to try to get 60 and golden warlock this season.

What are your thoughts on new hunter as it seems that they are more mid range or control now? Also it seems silly to hate hunter without reservations and be fine with shaman :smalltongue: (assuming it has to do with your hate of aggro)

Some rogue decks have seemed decent. I don't know if running N'Zoth really makes it that late game if you almost always are going to be playing it on t10. Although I am not sure how reliable you can get the deck I don't know how much card draw they tend to actually run.


Anyone else doing Paladin Murlocs in standard? The new ones add a lot to the deck, although they don't match well with Any Fin.
I have seen some murloc decks. I don't think they did very much vs my zoo deck though. I am not sure it really got far enough to tell if they were using anyfin, but I would guess not.
Anyfin is pretty dead without enough chargers I think.

[Zevox]

What are your thoughts on new hunter as it seems that they are more mid range or control now? Also it seems silly to hate hunter without reservations and be fine with shaman :smalltongue: (assuming it has to do with your hate of aggro)
I've barely seen any new Hunter decks on the ladder - which is more than fine by my :smalltongue: . And no, my dislike of the class is not just because I hate aggro, although the fact that historically the most common Hunter deck has been Face does not help it in my eyes. I simply dislike the way the class is designed - that hero power being useless for anything but aggro in particular is a big issue to me. Way back a long time ago I tried making slower Hunter decks, and I still just did not like them, and not just because they weren't very good.

Shaman has had a couple of aggro decks, but I never played those. And both originally in pre-GvG days and now with the new "Darwin" decks it's more a midrange class. (Also does Reno pretty well, in my experience. Reno has amazing synergy with Doomhammer in particular, which you normally take too much damage from if you try to use it entirely for control purposes.) And frankly with all of the efficient removal they get I still really really want a true, full Control Shaman to be a thing, personally, and will probably try experimenting with it once I have Hallazeal the Ascended.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

So I think The Thing From Below is really good? Playing around with a totem Shaman deck. As long as I can get a Tuskarr Totemic, or a Totem Golem out in 1, 2 or 3, and hero power at some other point (which is pretty easy), then it's a 5/5 taunt on turn 4. And from there it's just a decent way to protect the board I'm building up - Mukla's Champion, Thunder Bluff Valiant etc etc. Eventually it's a 5/5 taunt for 0 mana, which is never bad.

It's a good card I'd say. I gave it a spin, since my main deck since November was a form of Totem Shaman. Thing from Below plus Primal Fusion really lets you recoup the "loss" from using your hero power. If you miss the Golem two-drop for whatever reason, Fusion on a random totem might still let you challenge the board.

Currently giving Darwin Shaman a go, which hasn't gone nearly as well as I'd hoped. But that's the price of experimentation.

[Legoshrimp]

I've barely seen any new Hunter decks on the ladder - which is more than fine by my :smalltongue: . And no, my dislike of the class is not just because I hate aggro, although the fact that historically the most common Hunter deck has been Face does not help it in my eyes. I simply dislike the way the class is designed - that hero power being useless for anything but aggro in particular is a big issue to me. Way back a long time ago I tried making slower Hunter decks, and I still just did not like them, and not just because they weren't very good.

Shaman has had a couple of aggro decks, but I never played those. And both originally in pre-GvG days and now with the new "Darwin" decks it's more a midrange class. (Also does Reno pretty well, in my experience. Reno has amazing synergy with Doomhammer in particular, which you normally take too much damage from if you try to use it entirely for control purposes.) And frankly with all of the efficient removal they get I still really really want a true, full Control Shaman to be a thing, personally, and will probably try experimenting with it once I have Hallazeal the Ascended.

I think one problem with a true control shaman is that they have too many cards that are just really good and aggressive.
I don't think it would be possible to run a shaman deck that doesn't run, rockbiter trogg, totem golem, spirit wolfs, and flamewreath.

I guess that is what is annoying about them they do damage like they were face hunter but are also able to just control the board because their minions are so powerful.

Also does a c'thun shaman deck just to be able to get evolve on twin emperor vek'lor seem silly? They are both 7 drops!

[Kish]

That's an interesting thought; of course any card which buffs C'Thun by Battlecry is a good candidate for Evolve, since its value is front-loaded by the Battlecry.

[Beelzebub1111]

Anyone else doing Paladin Murlocs in standard? The new ones add a lot to the deck, although they don't match well with Any Fin.

Yes, but I'm only using the hero power of the new murlocs. What really helps is giving yout 1 health murlocs divine shield. It's worked so well, that I'm thinking of running Blood Knight in the deck.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That's an interesting thought; of course any card which buffs C'Thun by Battlecry is a good candidate for Evolve, since its value is front-loaded by the Battlecry.
Surprisingly, there's not that much frontloading, I've found.

You get...

A 2/3 for 2, a 2/1 for 3 that deals 2 damage, and a 4/2 with divine shield for 4. They aren't honestly all that bad, stat-wise. Disciple of C'thun (the 2/1) is probably the one with the most frontloading, and that's because it gets the 2-damage battlecry.

[PsyBomb]

So... just a bit of TheoryStone for a sec.

The C'thun core currently consists of six cards: two Disciples, two Chosen, Twin Emperors, and C'thun. You can probably add a seventh "phantom" core card in Brann Bronzebeard, but that's going to be a common take even in non-C'thun decks. Any build that can spare those six to seven slots (eight to nine if you want to use Beckoners as a 2-drop) can run it in addition to anything else they want to do. In the case of Druid, Warrior, or Priest, they can also use it to enable the Synergy cards on top of it if they fit the previous game plan (particularly in control or fatigue Warrior).

So, following from this, any deck that can be built in 24 or fewer cards (and remember that you can probably subtract at least 2 from the normal build due to how good Chosen and Disciple are) can get this engine added in for nearly free as a late-game finisher or field clear. Even with just the core, it is incredibly likely to have the big guy land for 12, which makes him very comparable to Deathwing.

What does this mean? Not actually all that sure. Although We're seeing the big guy a lot nowadays, I get the feeling that he's just going to be too common for his own good. Much like Ritual Zoo, people are going to start running hard-counters or major ways to abuse an enemy Old God hitting the table. It's just really obvious that you have him, no way to conceal the threat coming or trick an enemy into preparing for a different endgame. Already seeing the odd Patron being thrown around, along with a couple of Dreadsteed or other flood decks. I get the feeling that most of the major tournament players coming up are going to have one deck (most likely Ramp Druid and/or Control Warrior) featuring the big guy, but probably only one unless they're built around a gimmicky core (there is a version of this core which is only 3 cards, in Rogue running two Blades and the big guy).

[moossabi]

So... just a bit of TheoryStone for a sec.

The C'thun core currently consists of six cards: two Disciples, two Chosen, Twin Emperors, and C'thun. You can probably add a seventh "phantom" core card in Brann Bronzebeard, but that's going to be a common take even in non-C'thun decks. Any build that can spare those six to seven slots (eight to nine if you want to use Beckoners as a 2-drop) can run it in addition to anything else they want to do. In the case of Druid, Warrior, or Priest, they can also use it to enable the Synergy cards on top of it if they fit the previous game plan (particularly in control or fatigue Warrior).

So, following from this, any deck that can be built in 24 or fewer cards (and remember that you can probably subtract at least 2 from the normal build due to how good Chosen and Disciple are) can get this engine added in for nearly free as a late-game finisher or field clear. Even with just the core, it is incredibly likely to have the big guy land for 12, which makes him very comparable to Deathwing.

What does this mean? Not actually all that sure. Although We're seeing the big guy a lot nowadays, I get the feeling that he's just going to be too common for his own good. Much like Ritual Zoo, people are going to start running hard-counters or major ways to abuse an enemy Old God hitting the table. It's just really obvious that you have him, no way to conceal the threat coming or trick an enemy into preparing for a different endgame. Already seeing the odd Patron being thrown around, along with a couple of Dreadsteed or other flood decks. I get the feeling that most of the major tournament players coming up are going to have one deck (most likely Ramp Druid and/or Control Warrior) featuring the big guy, but probably only one unless they're built around a gimmicky core (there is a version of this core which is only 3 cards, in Rogue running two Blades and the big guy).

Or since the cultists have adequate effects on their own, run the disciples and chosen in a non-C'thun deck and trick them into saving up their removal for a threat that will never arrive. It may not work, but it's a fun way to mess with your opponent.

[Hamste]

Or since the cultists have adequate effects on their own, run the disciples and chosen in a non-C'thun deck and trick them into saving up their removal for a threat that will never arrive. It may not work, but it's a fun way to mess with your opponent.

It won't, C'Thun's buff animation doesn't play if he isn't even in that game.

[Kish]

Pity. Would be an awesome psychological aspect to the game. I suppose they had their reasons for disallowing it.

[Grytorm]

Trying to build a Control Warrior deck, I've gotten to the cut stage, and am still 5 cards over. I have some ideas of what to remove, but I want the opinions of others.


2 Execute
2 Shield Slam
2 Armorsmith
2 Cruel Taskmaster
2 Slam
2 Fiery War Axe
2 Bash
2 Ravaging Ghoul
2 Shield Block
1 Elise Starseeker
2 Sen'jin Shieldmasta (Bloodhoof Brave)
1 Arcanite Reaper
1 Big Game Hunter
2 Brawl
1 Emperor Thaurissan
1 Justicar Trueheart
1 Sylvanas Windrunner
1 The Black Knight
1 Gorehowl
1 Malkorok
1 Grommash Hellscream
1 Ragnaros Firelord
1 Alexstraza
1 Ysera

[Gandariel]

you don't need 2 slams and 2 bashes.
Arcanite reaper.. i'd take it out i think. it's not as good as the good old Death's bite was.

If you wanna run Malkorok you should remove Gorehowl, since they're competing for the same slot.

If you want to run so many end game legendaries you don't need Elise.
Or vice versa, if you wanna run Elise take out some of those legendaries.

[Joran]

Yes, but I'm only using the hero power of the new murlocs. What really helps is giving yout 1 health murlocs divine shield. It's worked so well, that I'm thinking of running Blood Knight in the deck.

I decided to give this deck a whirl: http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/twobiers-wotg-standard-aggro-flood-murloc-paladin/

You lose pretty badly if the enemy has a board wipe of any kind and I went something like 3-6 with it, but it was fun when it actually worked. I don't play aggro decks well that don't just SMOrc it up; I probably lost one or two games there that I could have won.

[GolemsVoice]

I really really like Darkshire Councilman. I had some incredible games with him.

[Chen]

It won't, C'Thun's buff animation doesn't play if he isn't even in that game.

Really? I was almost sure I had managed to use Klaxi Amber weaver and get it buffed to 4/10 after buffing C'thun on my first druid deck. I realized after a few games when I went to refine things I hadn't added C'thun at all (lol).

[PsyBomb]

Really? I was almost sure I had managed to use Klaxi Amber weaver and get it buffed to 4/10 after buffing C'thun on my first druid deck. I realized after a few games when I went to refine things I hadn't added C'thun at all (lol).

We know that C'thun's buffs are kept as a hidden stat in the game, so it is possible.

EDIT: just got done with my first couple of games running C'Zoo, and it's actually much more effective and fun than I'd thought. Also cheaper to craft other than the Emperors, which are pretty optional here (despite how good they are, I've only gotten to use them once in four games).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Really? I was almost sure I had managed to use Klaxi Amber weaver and get it buffed to 4/10 after buffing C'thun on my first druid deck. I realized after a few games when I went to refine things I hadn't added C'thun at all (lol).
Do you remember if the animation played?

I'm very amused by the thought of building a deck that doesn't use C'thun, but rather just relies on minions that gain buffs from higher-attack C'thun. Druid with Amber-Weaver, Twin Emperors, and then a midrange Savage Roar finisher would be great.

[Hamste]

Really? I was almost sure I had managed to use Klaxi Amber weaver and get it buffed to 4/10 after buffing C'thun on my first druid deck. I realized after a few games when I went to refine things I hadn't added C'thun at all (lol).


Yeah, played a hunter that used that 2/1 when I tried to take advantage of early aggro while decks were still unrefined. No animation was played.

[Legoshrimp]

We know that C'thun's buffs are kept as a hidden stat in the game, so it is possible.

EDIT: just got done with my first couple of games running C'Zoo, and it's actually much more effective and fun than I'd thought. Also cheaper to craft other than the Emperors, which are pretty optional here (despite how good they are, I've only gotten to use them once in four games).


Do you remember if the animation played?

I'm very amused by the thought of building a deck that doesn't use C'thun, but rather just relies on minions that gain buffs from higher-attack C'thun. Druid with Amber-Weaver, Twin Emperors, and then a midrange Savage Roar finisher would be great.

Lol it does.
I just got

http://i.imgur.com/ksdRyvz.jpg

With

http://i.imgur.com/VkpNQz2.jpg

[Kish]

Yeah, played a hunter that used that 2/1 when I tried to take advantage of early aggro while decks were still unrefined. No animation was played.
Yeah, I noticed the same thing in the last tavern brawl. My opponent played a C'Thun buffer, to a notable lack of animation.

[The Glyphstone]

Do you remember if the animation played?

I'm very amused by the thought of building a deck that doesn't use C'thun, but rather just relies on minions that gain buffs from higher-attack C'thun. Druid with Amber-Weaver, Twin Emperors, and then a midrange Savage Roar finisher would be great.

I imagine such a deck would want to include C'thun anyways, just as a backup WC - you'd only need to free up a single deck slot for him.

I was kinda sad in my last Tavern Brawl - I got C'thun but no C'thun buffers in my deck (never got to play him either, so I haven't seen his Battlecry animation.)

[Epinephrine_Syn]

We know that C'thun's buffs are kept as a hidden stat in the game, so it is possible.

EDIT: just got done with my first couple of games running C'Zoo, and it's actually much more effective and fun than I'd thought. Also cheaper to craft other than the Emperors, which are pretty optional here (despite how good they are, I've only gotten to use them once in four games).

I feel kind of lucky regarding the Emperors. I actually got them out of a pack.



Despite not having a C'Thun card, Paladin could maybe do well: one of the class's weaknesses as a Control deck is the lack of a big finisher (especially with Murk-Eye out of Standard, breaking the Anyfin burst), so you could adapt the old Anyfin deck to use C'Thun minions instead of Murlocs, leading up to Old Eyeballs at the end.

I've tried C'thun paladin. It's… not top tier, but okay ish.


Also, I really have wanted to try C'thun Rogue at some point though. Conceal Brann into C'thun just sounds too trolly to not try at some point. I'm just not quite sure what deck list to give it.

[ChaosOS]

See, I had the hunter quest yesterday so I decided to do Tavern Brawl. Drew lots of Feign Death, the 4/2 worgen that buffs deathrattles in hand, Princess Huhuran, and a N'zoth, but not a SINGLE deathrattle before I died 13 turns in

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I imagine such a deck would want to include C'thun anyways, just as a backup WC - you'd only need to free up a single deck slot for him.

I think it depends on how fast your deck is. Two Beckoners of Evil and two Disciples of C'thun is probably usually going to be enough to get C'thun buffs to 10 attack, at which point you can benefit from Klaaxi Amberweaver and Twin Emperors. That's still a pretty low curve. (Druid is the one class I can see that isn't necessarily going to run C'thun, since they can win faster.) I'd rather use C'thun's slot for Cenarius, myself.

The other thing is, for C'thun to be a backup win condition, I think it has to be big enough to work as a win condition, which means dedicating a deck to it.

[Legoshrimp]

I imagine such a deck would want to include C'thun anyways, just as a backup WC - you'd only need to free up a single deck slot for him.

I was kinda sad in my last Tavern Brawl - I got C'thun but no C'thun buffers in my deck (never got to play him either, so I haven't seen his Battlecry animation.)

Maybe although I could potentially see something that only runs 2-4 c'thun buffers with vek'lor and whatever class specific thing. Although this would probably only work in decks that will generally see most of their deck to be able to reliably get value from the c'thun minions with so few c'thun activators.




The other thing is, for C'thun to be a backup win condition, I think it has to be big enough to work as a win condition, which means dedicating a deck to it.


That is what I am not sure of I think a 10/10 deal 10 damage would have a solid chance at being run.

[Epinephrine_Syn]

Also, I hear a LOT of talk about the 4/10 Weavers being absolutely absurd. Which I agree on. I just wonder though if there's room somewhere in Druid for 2 Sunfury Protectors to give them taunt, ala Handlock. I'm just not sure Druid can make use of the protectors 'aside' from this.

[PsyBomb]

Also, I hear a LOT of talk about the 4/10 Weavers being absolutely absurd. Which I agree on. I just wonder though if there's room somewhere in Druid for 2 Sunfury Protectors to give them taunt, ala Handlock. I'm just not sure Druid can make use of the protectors 'aside' from this.

I'm actually struggling to find that room myself. Until I do, I'll just be running them hyper-aggressive attacking into enemy minions to keep them off the board.

EDIT: C'thun Druid is a deck where I'm just finding it hard as all heck to fit in what I want to do around the core of it. Need to take a step back and rebuild from the ground up.

[Rodin]

Out of all the C'thun decks, the only one that has been really irritating me is the Druid C'thun, and mainly because of those Weavers. It feels kind of like playing against Secret Paladin - you can predict exactly what the opponent will do on each turn, but there's only so much you can do against it because the value is just absurd. 4/10 into 4/10 into 5/7 Taunt into 8/12 Taunt into another 5/7 Taunt into a 5/10 Taunt into a 16/16 that nukes the board for 16...

Unless you're playing Zoolock and overrun them before they can get going, you pretty much have to tech specifically against it or hope the Druid draws bad. I'm not about to argue about whether it's OP or not - my skill level is nowhere near high enough to make that call. It is, however, very powerful AND very cheap, making it incredibly prevalent at low ranks.

[moossabi]

Out of all the C'thun decks, the only one that has been really irritating me is the Druid C'thun, and mainly because of those Weavers. It feels kind of like playing against Secret Paladin - you can predict exactly what the opponent will do on each turn, but there's only so much you can do against it because the value is just absurd. 4/10 into 4/10 into 5/7 Taunt into 8/12 Taunt into another 5/7 Taunt into a 5/10 Taunt into a 16/16 that nukes the board for 16...

Unless you're playing Zoolock and overrun them before they can get going, you pretty much have to tech specifically against it or hope the Druid draws bad. I'm not about to argue about whether it's OP or not - my skill level is nowhere near high enough to make that call. It is, however, very powerful AND very cheap, making it incredibly prevalent at low ranks.

It's an easy way for new players to get into the fun stuff while building their collection for other future decks.

[tonberrian]

So has anyone here gone to a fireside gathering? What do they typically entail?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So has anyone here gone to a fireside gathering? What do they typically entail?
That depends largely on what the event is. I've been to some fireside gatherings that were specifically tournaments. Pretty fun, but not the full spectrum of what you'd necessarily get from a fireside gathering.

[Arcane_Snowman]

Out of all the C'thun decks, the only one that has been really irritating me is the Druid C'thun, and mainly because of those Weavers. It feels kind of like playing against Secret Paladin - you can predict exactly what the opponent will do on each turn, but there's only so much you can do against it because the value is just absurd. 4/10 into 4/10 into 5/7 Taunt into 8/12 Taunt into another 5/7 Taunt into a 5/10 Taunt into a 16/16 that nukes the board for 16...

Unless you're playing Zoolock and overrun them before they can get going, you pretty much have to tech specifically against it or hope the Druid draws bad. I'm not about to argue about whether it's OP or not - my skill level is nowhere near high enough to make that call. It is, however, very powerful AND very cheap, making it incredibly prevalent at low ranks. I've actually had a pretty good matchup against the C'Thun Druid with C'Thun Priest, just because you've got so many answers. Unless they get a really good draw, it's quite possible to stay on top of them. The 4/10 doesn't threaten you much, as despite trading favorably with your smaller minions, it gets sandbagged by your bigger ones and your heal. The Dark Arakoa is a prime target for Shadow Word: Death or Entomb. And there's nothing like MCing or Entombing the enemies C'Thun.

[Anarion]

I actually feel like the removal suite right now makes C'thun druid not that great. Aggro gets consistently ahead on board, so you're always in a tense race to get enough taunts and draw into your finishers before they kill you (which is frustrating when you're only going to see your finisher in about half your games). Control, on the other hand, has a lot of ways of totally shutting you down: equality+pyromancer, entomb, Siphon soul, Brawl, and I've been running into a lot of people running Black Knight, which kills all the big taunt guys. Yes, if druid hits a good sequence of plays, they are likely to win, but it's a deck with a bunch of mixed up cards, so if you draw mana when you need guys or vice versa, you get in trouble.

[Zevox]

Yes, if druid hits a good sequence of plays, they are likely to win, but it's a deck with a bunch of mixed up cards, so if you draw mana when you need guys or vice versa, you get in trouble.
That's the way I've felt about every Druid deck I've ever played, honestly. I don't think it's anything new or going to prevent C'Thun Druid from being good. Though granted the Ancient of Lore nerf does probably exacerbate that problem with the class a bit.

[PsyBomb]

Just lost to a C'thun Druid. Dropped Brann-C'thun with a 22/22. Not even mad.

[Anarion]

Just lost to a C'thun Druid. Dropped Brann-C'thun with a 22/22. Not even mad.

Well, yeah, if you don't kill a turn 8-9 Brann Bronzebeard on sight, you deserve whatever happens to you.

[Joran]

Well, yeah, if you don't kill a turn 8-9 Brann Bronzebeard on sight, you deserve whatever happens to you.

With Druid, it's possible to double Innervate out Brann + C'Thun or just plain innervate if Brann or C'Thun gets hit with one tick of Emperor.

[PsyBomb]

Well, yeah, if you don't kill a turn 8-9 Brann Bronzebeard on sight, you deserve whatever happens to you.

He got it off a Thaurissan tick plus an Innervate. Agreed otherwise.

[Sith_Happens]

Lol it does.
I just got

http://i.imgur.com/ksdRyvz.jpg

With

http://i.imgur.com/VkpNQz2.jpg


So "If your C'Thun has 10 or more attack" still works if you don't have C'Thun in your deck? That's... really weird and seems unintentional so I have a strong feeling it's going to get patched soon.

[Rosstin]

So "If your C'Thun has 10 or more attack" still works if you don't have C'Thun in your deck? That's... really weird and seems unintentional so I have a strong feeling it's going to get patched soon.

I don't think it will be patched. Based on what the Blizzard guys have said, it's intentional. If you think about it, "invisible C'Thun" is one consistent solution to the question of how to implement C'Thun, that accounts for C'Thun being duplicated, stolen, etc etc.

[Yuki Akuma]

I hate it when I lose a match entirely because I didn't draw a Flamestrike. Like, for eight turns in a row I could have turned the game around if I'd just drawn that Flamestrike. There's two in my deck! And I have two Ethereal Conjurers and that new book that makes random spells! I cast three 'draw two cards' spells digging for those bloody Flamestrikes. :smallfrown:

>.< They were both at the bottom of my deck, weren't they.

[TheNU]

I'm not able to post a link so I decided I'd just copy-paste my hearthstone deck I made not too long ago today and showcase it. Maybe some feedback would be pretty cool.

Wyrmstalker
2 Hunter's Mark
1 Cult Master
2 Gnomish Inventor
2 Azure Drake
2 Acolyte of Pain
1 Lorewalker Cho
1 Flare
1 Emperor Thaurissan
1 Brann Bronzebeard
1 C'Thun
2 Twilight Elder
2 Beckoner of Evil
2 C'Thun's Chosen
2 Skeram Cultist
2 Disciple of C'Thun
1 Twin Emperor Vek'lor
1 Twilight Geomancer
2 Doomcaller
2 Crazed Worshipper

Welcome hunters, today I bring you another new cool hunter deck. This time we're going way outside the box and doing something way different, Yes of course we're playing C'Thun! I think this card is a really awesome card, it's fun to play and in the current standard format it's really powerful with all the cards that we lost that can wreck this sort of deck.

Now the question has come up as to why I picked Tempo over control or combo. Maybe someone in the comments and point it out and I can make the change.

The Deck
This deck is rather different than your normal hunter theme deck has it almost has no hunter cards in it. The deck is very heavy on Whispers due to the fact the main win in the deck is C'Thun. The basic idea is simply, you play on curve, dropping and making trades. You don't want to be aggressive with this deck. You want to play almost control like and this is the reason I feel it's a Tempo because with every move you made, trade, you are building to your end game. The fact that some cards will force your opponent to trade will keep you alive much longer.

Granted as the month goes people might find that C'Thun is all over and results in more decks coming out to counter C'Thun. I think to be honest it sort of sucks that they ignored the hunter class when it came to the C'Thun theme. Seems they focused it on a few classes only. I would have loved some hunter love, oh well.

Cards of C'Thun
The choice of cards where simple, you basically need to run almost 2 of everything simply because of the effect of giving C'Thun a boost. Only Twilight Geomancer I put one in because the effect seem to just be dull. gaining Taunt is nice but I feel this card can be tech out for something else. I've played a few games on latter and won every game I've played.

Please remember that this is very low rank. I'm taking rank 20ish here. So the number of good players who make smart choices. I will not lie to you, if you are a really good player this deck is likely not for you. It's a fun deck but I don't feel it's a top tier deck. Maybe a tier 4 or 5 maybe.

I also feel that Doomcaller might be overkill running 2. I am running two simply because he does give C'Thun +2/+2 and himself is a 7/9 for 8 mana. BUT his other effect to bring C'Thun back if he gets killed is good however.

- From what I can tell if he gets mind controlled in any way and then dies he does not go to your graveyard and there for Doomcaller's effect to return C'Thun to your deck.
- I have almost never played him in the 8 games I played. I think I played him twice and it was simply either for a 7/9 body and the boost.

I might run one of him, if I drop Geomancer and a Doomcaller that leaves two open slots for something else that might be more useful. I'm thinking either Freeing Trap or maybe Deadly Shot.

Hunters vs Card Draw
Since they nerf of Starving Buzzard a while back. I think it's been well over a year. No more Hounds + Buzzard massive card draw. Hunter has always been lacking on draw. Other than Buzzard it has no card draw. This is the reason I loaded the deck with card draw. Such as Flare for Mages, Paladin and of course Hunter and the card draw. One is good enough I feel for this play style.

I'm also running Pain which is a good draw card as well as Gnomish and Azure Drake for some good boost. With almost no damage effects here his other effect of spell power is sort of useless. But a 4/4 body for 5 with a card to replace itself to cycle your deck is always a good card. You want more cards to boost C'Thun and you want to draw him as well at some point. You also have the old Cult Master which if you know how to play you can get 3-4 cards out of him easy.

Emperor Thaurissan hasn't seen much play, I've drawn him maybe 3-4 times and most times he drops he gives the cards in hand a drop but is generally killed the next turn. I must say that Brann Bronzebeard is amazing in this deck. All the battlecries this deck has with him is great.

End Game
You simply just want to keep the board controlled and force trades in your favor. With the number of card draw you have if you fully get all of it in one game (that's a total of 15 cards with Brann in play and the sheer number you can get from Cult not taking into account Cho). Play the came on curve and by the time you have 10 mana C'Thun should be in your hand with at least 23-28 attack power.

This is why I feel almost that Doomcaller and Geomaneer are sort of dead cards to this deck theme because you want the game to be over when you play C'Thun. Every time I've drop him I've killed the board and my opponent at the same time.

Replacements
If I were to make the replacements to the deck some cards I've thought about playing.

Call of the Wild: A really cool card for the cost but I feel it suits a beast theme deck or likely my new Beaststalker deck I'll update for Standard.

Freezing Trap/Snipe/Bear Trap: I feel are some good choices if you feel the need. However I tried to not run too many spells give I'm running Cho.

There are a host of other tech like cards you could run but it's really a choice and the meta really. So tell me what you think? Do you like the deck, have you tried it out what sort of changes would you make? Leave me a comment, please like the deck or dislike it which ever you feel it should get. Look forward to reading your comments and hopefully I can get a video of the deck playing for everyone to enjoy later this week.

Posted from hearthpwn.com/decks/527378-wog-tempo-wyrmstalker

[Tentreto]

I've currently been playing a Not C'thun priest to see how viable a deck it can be, using alchemists and healbots as some combo cards.
I also added Corrupted Hogger, who is scarily good at stopping a C'thun finisher, especially with a divine spirit.
I'm scrubish, being around rank 15, but so far, I haven't had any specific deck beat me besides a few face hunters. Slightly surprised no one else is even playing Hogger, he's not the greatest, but against half the old gods he wins, and always has to be removed straight away.

[AgentPaper]

So "If your C'Thun has 10 or more attack" still works if you don't have C'Thun in your deck? That's... really weird and seems unintentional so I have a strong feeling it's going to get patched soon.

It just means that "wherever he is" includes not in your deck. :smalltongue:

[Sith_Happens]

I don't think it will be patched. Based on what the Blizzard guys have said, it's intentional. If you think about it, "invisible C'Thun" is one consistent solution to the question of how to implement C'Thun, that accounts for C'Thun being duplicated, stolen, etc etc.

I know that your C'Thun stats are tracked even if you aren't running it, what I'm saying is that the cards that check your C'Thun stats could easily also check whether C'Thun is in fact in your deck.

[Legoshrimp]

I have a warrior quest so I decided to make a c'thunless c'thun control warrior.
Blood To Ichor
Execute x 2
Shield Slam x 2
Fiery War Axe x 2
Slam x 2
Cruel Taskmaster x 2
Shield Block x 2
Acolyte of Pain
Disciple of C'Thun x 2
Ravaging Ghoul x 2
C'Thun's Chosen x 2
Brawl x 2
Justicar Trueheart
Sylvanas Windrunner
The Black Knight
Ancient Shieldbearer x 2
Malkorok
Twin Emperor Vek'lor
Grommash Hellscream

Not really refined much yet. Malkorok is half because I don't have gorehowl, and half because I drew him in a pack so I might as well play him.
I possibly should try to find room for a second acolyte or maybe a few azure drakes for more card draw.

Seems to work decently in the game I played, but that isn't a great estimate of it. I had the weird experience of go to bed face only really good decks that are played decently. Then I woke up and immediately played 3 terrible decks. I guess the really good players got out of r15 while I was asleep :smalltongue:



I know that your C'Thun stats are tracked even if you aren't running it, what I'm saying is that the cards that check your C'Thun stats could easily also check whether C'Thun is in fact in your deck.


It just means that "wherever he is" includes not in your deck. :smalltongue:

"wherever he is" is pretty specific to mean anywhere :smalltongue: In your collection is still somewhere.

Although this brings up the question. What happens when you get hexed or polymporhed? Do you stop existing? Should your c'thun cards no longer work after that? :smalltongue:

[Haruspex_Pariah]

On a related note, I played C'Thun Priest against a C'THun Warrior. He plays it, I Mind Control. Then he kills it. Then he plays that C'Thun minion which reshuffles dead C'Thun into your deck. I don't know what the animation for the reshuffling effect looks like, but we got the regular C'Thun popping up and gaining +2/+2 animation. He never got around to replaying C'Thun, so I don't know if that reshuffling effect works after Mind Control.

[Legoshrimp]

On a related note, I played C'Thun Priest against a C'THun Warrior. He plays it, I Mind Control. Then he kills it. Then he plays that C'Thun minion which reshuffles dead C'Thun into your deck. I don't know what the animation for the reshuffling effect looks like, but we got the regular C'Thun popping up and gaining +2/+2 animation. He never got around to replaying C'Thun, so I don't know if that reshuffling effect works after Mind Control.
IIRC it is pretty similar to entombs.

I guess it makes sense that it doesn't, it is no longer your c'thun.

Also I made a change to the warrior deck.
+1 acloyte of pain
-1 c'thun's chosen

Seems to perform pretty reasonably, but still not a very large sample size.

[Zevox]

On a related note, I played C'Thun Priest against a C'THun Warrior. He plays it, I Mind Control. Then he kills it. Then he plays that C'Thun minion which reshuffles dead C'Thun into your deck. I don't know what the animation for the reshuffling effect looks like, but we got the regular C'Thun popping up and gaining +2/+2 animation. He never got around to replaying C'Thun, so I don't know if that reshuffling effect works after Mind Control.
It definitely does not. There is a distinct animation for that, so you'd know if it had. I'm also pretty sure I had a game where an opponent played one of those after I Entombed his C'Thun, and the same thing happened. Which makes sense: that effect activates if your C'Thun died. But it didn't. It got stolen by the opponent. Even if it died on their board, it was no longer yours at the time, so it doesn't count. In a physical card game we'd say that it was in your opponent's discard pile instead of yours, but Hearthstone doesn't technically have those, so it's just a bit harder to express.

[Grytorm]

Hello again. I had a few card ideas I wanted to share. Including an idea which I have forgotten so I won't be sharing it today. So here they are:

9 Mana, Warrior Epic Spell
Gain half your missing health in Armor. Equip a 4/3 weapon (Alternatively, equip a random weapon from your deck. Give it +1/
+1).

This one I have posted in the card creation contest before, this is a weaker version thereof. Hopefully this is better balanced. The alternate random weapon equip is both a buff and a nerf, because it makes running two of them harder but it gives it more potential upside.


4 Mana, 4/4, Neutral Legendary Minion
Battlecry: The next spell you cast this turn costs C'thun buff stats. Whereever it is.

I wanted to make a scaled down version of Cho'Gal. And when I considered making a 4/4 I thought of Milhouse. It is somewhat related to the first Milhouse and he serves as another pay off card with a unique effect.

[Kish]

If I'm correctly reading "costs C'Thun buff stats" to mean "costs an amount of mana equal to your C'Thun's current Attack," that's way underpowered: Weak stats for a 4-cost minion and an effect that will almost always be to your disadvantage and may amount to "you cannot cast any spells for the rest of this round."

[moossabi]

If I'm correctly reading "costs C'Thun buff stats" to mean "costs an amount of mana equal to your C'Thun's current Attack," that's way underpowered: Weak stats for a 4-cost minion and an effect that will almost always be to your disadvantage and may amount to "you cannot cast any spells for the rest of this round."

I read it as "-1/-1 for each mana that the spell costs"

[Grytorm]

I read it as "-1/-1 for each mana that the spell costs"

Yeah that's what I meant.


Also I remembered what the third idea was. But I don't have the details worked out. I even considered making it a Neutral card.

(3 or 4) mana, (Mage or Shaman) spell, (Rare or Epic)
Deal your C'thun's bonus attack split randomly between all enemy minions.

[Gandariel]

OOOH.

Now I get it.
You pay for the spell by weakening your C'Thun.

So if your C'thun is a 10/10 you can play a free Consecration, but the C'thun goes back t 6/6.

I have absolutely no idea of how I would word that ability. But it looks pretty interesting!

[Legoshrimp]

It just means that "wherever he is" includes not in your deck. :smalltongue:


I know that your C'Thun stats are tracked even if you aren't running it, what I'm saying is that the cards that check your C'Thun stats could easily also check whether C'Thun is in fact in your deck.


OOOH.

Now I get it.
You pay for the spell by weakening your C'Thun.

So if your C'thun is a 10/10 you can play a free Consecration, but the C'thun goes back t 6/6.

I have absolutely no idea of how I would word that ability. But it looks pretty interesting!

Cast 1 spell giving C'thun -1/-1 for each mana the spell costs, wherever he is.
I guess you would have to prevent it from going lower then his base with how it works currently. Getting a free spell while not running c'thun would probably be too good.

[Chen]

Hello again. I had a few card ideas I wanted to share. Including an idea which I have forgotten so I won't be sharing it today. So here they are:

9 Mana, Warrior Epic Spell
Gain half your missing health in Armor. Equip a 4/3 weapon (Alternatively, equip a random weapon from your deck. Give it +1/
+1).

This one I have posted in the card creation contest before, this is a weaker version thereof. Hopefully this is better balanced. The alternate random weapon equip is both a buff and a nerf, because it makes running two of them harder but it gives it more potential upside.


4 Mana, 4/4, Neutral Legendary Minion
Battlecry: The next spell you cast this turn costs C'thun buff stats. Whereever it is.

I wanted to make a scaled down version of Cho'Gal. And when I considered making a 4/4 I thought of Milhouse. It is somewhat related to the first Milhouse and he serves as another pay off card with a unique effect.

The first one is probably overcosted for what it does. A 4/3 weapon plus at best 14/15 armor is not worth 9 mana. That's the best case scenario and even then you have a weak weapon and 15 health/armor to deal with the opponent's next turn. Probably not enough. Even if you were at 10 health you'd gain 10 armor and have a weak weapon for 9 mana. Doesn't seem worthwhile to waste almost your whole turn on that.

The next one is probably too strong. "Free" spells or things that let you go past 10 mana used per turn are exceptionally powerful. Cho'gall is weak because there aren't terribly many synergistic warlock spells to go with it (expensive warlock spells tend to be board clears which work horribly with Cho'gall).

[Joran]

I also added Corrupted Hogger, who is scarily good at stopping a C'thun finisher, especially with a divine spirit.
I'm scrubish, being around rank 15, but so far, I haven't had any specific deck beat me besides a few face hunters. Slightly surprised no one else is even playing Hogger, he's not the greatest, but against half the old gods he wins, and always has to be removed straight away.

I've been happy with Corrupted Hogger; I took Eloise's Standard Patron/Yogg list and put in Corrupted Hogger instead of whatever his face that summons a weapon (Malkorok), since I unpacked Hogger and not him. He's been really good, which surprised me.

When I first took a look at the card, I evaluated it as something similar to Troggzor, a 7 mana, 6/6 understated body. However, he's similar to a third Patron for Whirlwind effects and the taunt is surprisingly useful. Even if the opponent can clear him in one hit, it still summons a taunt, which makes follow up trades harder. All in all, pretty good.


I hate it when I lose a match entirely because I didn't draw a Flamestrike. Like, for eight turns in a row I could have turned the game around if I'd just drawn that Flamestrike. There's two in my deck! And I have two Ethereal Conjurers and that new book that makes random spells! I cast three 'draw two cards' spells digging for those bloody Flamestrikes. :smallfrown:

>.< They were both at the bottom of my deck, weren't they.

According to the laws of Hearthstone, they're in your opening hand next game.


I'm not able to post a link so I decided I'd just copy-paste my hearthstone deck I made not too long ago today and showcase it. Maybe some feedback would be pretty cool.

Wyrmstalker

2 Hunter's Mark
1 Cult Master
2 Gnomish Inventor
2 Azure Drake
2 Acolyte of Pain
1 Lorewalker Cho
1 Flare
1 Emperor Thaurissan
1 Brann Bronzebeard
1 C'Thun
2 Twilight Elder
2 Beckoner of Evil
2 C'Thun's Chosen
2 Skeram Cultist
2 Disciple of C'Thun
1 Twin Emperor Vek'lor
1 Twilight Geomancer
2 Doomcaller
2 Crazed Worshipper



Looking at your decklist, you have I think 2 Hunter cards in another otherwise neutral deck (I'm not quite there with all the card names yet). That leads me to believe that your deck really shouldn't be in Hunter, especially since the Hero power doesn't help you control the board and you have no way to get the board back once you lose it, because you're running none of the removal or tempo swing cards other than Hunter's Mark. Additionally, you're running anti-tempo cards like Gnomish Inventor, Lorewalker Cho, and Cult Master.

I don't see the particular reason why you'd run this in Hunter, especially since you're not leveraging any of the class cards.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I hate it when I lose a match entirely because I didn't draw a Flamestrike. Like, for eight turns in a row I could have turned the game around if I'd just drawn that Flamestrike. There's two in my deck! And I have two Ethereal Conjurers and that new book that makes random spells! I cast three 'draw two cards' spells digging for those bloody Flamestrikes. :smallfrown:

>.< They were both at the bottom of my deck, weren't they.
Playing Anyfin Paladin made me tilt and rage like nothing other when I got screwed over by the RNG and never drew either of my Equalities.

[Beelzebub1111]

I learned a bit about the order of operations today. I had a Darkshire Councilman on the board and played Void Terror, the enemy mage had a secret.
This is what happened:
1)Void Terror enters the battlefield, its battlecry animation plays and it gets the bonus
2)Secret Triggers, Mirror Entity, Mage gets a Void Terror with the Battlecry bonus
3)Darkshire Councilman Gets +1/+0
4)Darkshire Councilman Dies

I don't know how that's useful to know, but that's how it happens.

[Kish]

It's useful for anyone considering feeding Void Terror a Darkshire Councilman or playing a Void Terror when there might be a Mirror Entity on the board.

[tonberrian]

Stupid triple Reno.

[PsyBomb]

So, looks like I'm eating my words. I called Zoo dying, and now I'm not only having success with it, I'm having success with three distinct flavors of it. All three are surprisingly budget (which is good, because budget is what I am at).

Traditional zoo, focusing on favorable trades together with saving up a massive burst combo at the end-game.
Ritual Zoo, focusing on Forbidden Ritual and getting massive synergies via Councilman and Juggler together with a big pressure game and getting value out of things like Reliquary Seeker and Gormok.
C'zoo, focusing on early pressure and advantage plays to get the enemy down low and finish with the big guy. Incidentally also splits the enemy focus, since preparing for the late game hits makes it harder to keep up short-term.

I'm noticing that the big weakness of all three is Twin Emperors, and I've had the occasional twitch fit at large AoEs at the wrong time. I don't have things like Sea Giant to support it just yet, but the budget skeleton of all three is something like...

2x Possessed Villager (or Voidwalker if you prefer)
2x Flame Imp
2x Abusive Sergeant
2x Power Overwhelming

2x Dark Peddler
2x Dire Wolf Alpha

2x Imp Gang Boss

2x Defender of Argus

The above cards are literally identical between all three decks. Two of the three use Brann, Doomguard, Soul Fire, Knife Juggler, and/or Dark Iron Dwarf. Ritual build is going to become my Wild deck as well, since it can be supported by Imp-losion. Been wavering back and forth on whether to include a Hellfire in the list, seems that having it there is a great way to ensure I never face aggro or flood builds.

[Anarion]

2x Possessed Villager (or Voidwalker if you prefer)


Voidwalker. You might also want possessed villager (though I've been fairly unimpressed by them). You really want voidwalker though. It ruins the 2/3 C'thun minion in combination with abusive sergeant as an opening and puts them behind on board, and later on it absorbs a weapon attack from any of the weapon classes in order to protect a knife juggler, councilman, or whatever else you have on the board.

Also, if you're not using bilefin tidehunter, I recommend you try it out. It's 2 bodies as a combo with knife juggler and councilman, works great along with defender of argus, and the taunt from the slime can waste their mana on a ping or protect something important.

[PsyBomb]

Voidwalker. You might also want possessed villager (though I've been fairly unimpressed by them). You really want voidwalker though. It ruins the 2/3 C'thun minion in combination with abusive sergeant as an opening and puts them behind on board, and later on it absorbs a weapon attack from any of the weapon classes in order to protect a knife juggler, councilman, or whatever else you have on the board.

Also, if you're not using bilefin tidehunter, I recommend you try it out. It's 2 bodies as a combo with knife juggler and councilman, works great along with defender of argus, and the taunt from the slime can waste their mana on a ping or protect something important.

I'll give it a shot, have two of those. Villager is important for multi-body stuff in Ritual, but the Voidwalker argument makes a lot of sense for the other two builds.

[Anarion]

I'll give it a shot, have two of those. Villager is important for multi-body stuff in Ritual, but the Voidwalker argument makes a lot of sense for the other two builds.

Here's my list by the way. I decided to lean top heavy, and I think it needs some tweaks, but is basically functional.
2x forbidden ritual
2x power overwhelming
2x abusive sergeant
2x flame imp
1x possessed villager (1 is out to try teching spawn of N'zoth below)
2x voidwalker
2x bilefin tidehunter
2x dark peddler
2x dire wolf alpha
2x knife juggler
2x darkshire councilman
2x imp gang boss
1x spawn of N'zoth
2x defender of argus
1x Gormok the Impaler
1x doomguard
2x Sea Giant

[Grytorm]

Sorry to bother everyone with another card. But I have had this idea for a long time and finally have figured out what I want to present to the community.

Epic Shaman Spell, 12 Mana
Costs (2) less for each other card in your hand. Shuffle your hand into your deck then draw 4 cards.

Looking at it, it might be a bit to good at this cost effect point. Other possibilities include making it 10 mana and reduce the cost by (1) for each card. Keep it at 12 with the 1 to 1 reduction. But instead of 4 cards you draw 6. I don't know exactly how to balance this.

[PsyBomb]

Sorry to bother everyone with another card. But I have had this idea for a long time and finally have figured out what I want to present to the community.

Epic Shaman Spell, 12 Mana
Costs (2) less for each other card in your hand. Shuffle your hand into your deck then draw 4 cards.

Looking at it, it might be a bit to good at this cost effect point. Other possibilities include making it 10 mana and reduce the cost by (1) for each card. Keep it at 12 with the 1 to 1 reduction. But instead of 4 cards you draw 6. I don't know exactly how to balance this.

This is an effect which is notably missing from the game, one I have wondered about. Especially with the current emphasis on combo, this would encourage it more. Not sure if that's a good thing, but there you go. I'd like to see something like it even in Generic.

[Anarion]

Oh god, Piloted Sky Golem can dump out the new shaman 7/7 now. That is so filthy.

[Joran]

Outside of utterly killing your opponent with 3 pyroblasts to the face, this has to be one of the best Yogg results ever (from Reddit):

Before + After Pic: http://imgur.com/e8ldnAn

VOD: https://www.twitch.tv/savjz/v/64295667?t=06h24m12s

[Rosstin]

I know that your C'Thun stats are tracked even if you aren't running it, what I'm saying is that the cards that check your C'Thun stats could easily also check whether C'Thun is in fact in your deck.

I agree with you, it would be easy to check that. It just seems to me like the design team intentionally did it this way with their eyes wide open. I don't think it's unintended that they don't check if you have C'Thun.

[PsyBomb]

Word of warning on the ladder: Kripparian just had a perfect run from R20 to R14 running Murlock Rush Paladin with Shield support, calling it "out of control", a day or two ago. Already seeing it surge due to netdeckers, and it's annoying. You HAVE to keep them off the field or you'll just get run over, especially Stewards and Warleaders. Definitely bringing back the AoE now.

There is a video on YouTube, I'll link it once I can, phone doesn't like the site (and I can't get a URL from the app)

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mwr_OXLrbU

[Ionbound]

Outside of utterly killing your opponent with 3 pyroblasts to the face, this has to be one of the best Yogg results ever (from Reddit):

Before + After Pic: http://imgur.com/e8ldnAn

VOD: https://www.twitch.tv/savjz/v/64295667?t=06h24m12s

I love the reaction!

"It lived! Have you ever seen a Yogg live?!"

[Haruspex_Pariah]

As much as I am a fan of TotalBiscuit in general (I agree with him on many points and enjoy most of his videos), his Hearthstone videos are usually irritating to watch.

He complains when he plays a gimmick deck and loses. Maybe try bringing an "interesting" deck that is actually good, friend.

He also seems disproportionately bitter when the enemy takes their time. Some people actually stop to think before they make decisions, even (especially!) during the mulligan phase or if they have one or two cards in their hand or no mana left to do anything. The time that the enemy takes is bonus time for you to plan ahead, really. And if they rope while you're winning, maybe it's because they're desperately trying to figure out how to win despite their disadvantageous position. But no, according to TB any kind of delay must be deliberate trolling on the opponent's part. :smallsigh:

[Joran]

He also seems disproportionately bitter when the enemy takes their time. Some people actually stop to think before they make decisions, even (especially!) during the mulligan phase or if they have one or two cards in their hand or no mana left to do anything. The time that the enemy takes is bonus time for you to plan ahead, really. And if they rope while you're winning, maybe it's because they're desperately trying to figure out how to win despite their disadvantageous position. But no, according to TB any kind of delay must be deliberate trolling on the opponent's part. :smallsigh:

/insert video of Trump roping on turn 1, deciding if he wants to coin -> life tap or just pass.

P.S. Worst part of this meta is the re-emergence of Sylvanas with no silences. I keep misplaying into her =P

[Mando Knight]

When everyone's running stuff like Sylvanas because there's no 2 mana Ironbeak Owl, Ironbeak Owl is worth 3 mana.

[Legoshrimp]

When everyone's running stuff like Sylvanas because there's no 2 mana Ironbeak Owl, Ironbeak Owl is worth 3 mana.

Honestly I don't think so. Spellbreaker is probably worth 4 mana though.

[PsyBomb]

Honestly I don't think so. Spellbreaker is probably worth 4 mana though.

Most cases, I agree. Some decks, though, that one mana is a huge difference.

[Legoshrimp]

Most cases, I agree. Some decks, though, that one mana is a huge difference.

What decks?

The only situation I can really think of is face decks that don't care about board control. Which I think are mostly dead, or at least I don't run into them ever.

The closest might be shaman, but they just have a much better silence option anyways.
Hunter has mark which isn't always as good, but it is useful in other situations a lot more.

[PsyBomb]

What decks?

The only situation I can really think of is face decks that don't care about board control. Which I think are mostly dead, or at least I don't run into them ever.

The closest might be shaman, but they just have a much better silence option anyways.
Hunter has mark which isn't always as good, but it is useful in other situations a lot more.

I, as usual, come from Zoo. That one mana is usually the difference between me getting to drop a Power Overwhelming or not to finish the game (or one more tentacle on the Ritual). This comes from unfortunately hard experience. Hunters also get more out of an Owl due to being a Beast.

[Legoshrimp]

I, as usual, come from Zoo. That one mana is usually the difference between me getting to drop a Power Overwhelming or not to finish the game (or one more tentacle on the Ritual). This comes from unfortunately hard experience. Hunters also get more out of an Owl due to being a Beast.

That does happen some, but I think a lot of the time zoo is also going to be silencing just to remove buffs/sylvanas. If the only reason you ever silence is for lethal then owl is better. If you silence sometimes for value other then removing taunt, 4/3 is a massively better body then 2/1.
owl doesn't trade with a lot of common 2 drops.
Spellbreaker trades with some 4 drops, and almost all 3 drops.

I feel like in zoo the added board presence means a lot.

Sure there will be some games you miss lethal because of the 1 mana cost, but I think there will also be a lot of games were the body actually does something relevant.

I feel like if the tentacle is going to matter, the 2/2 of stats is worth more then the 1/1.

[Mando Knight]

Brawl is spiders. Again.

I. HATE. THIS. BRAWL.

[Legoshrimp]

Brawl is spiders. Again.

I. HATE. THIS. BRAWL.

Why did it have to be spiders?

[The Glyphstone]

Freaking spiders. Worst of the RNGBrawls by far. Even Randomonium is better than this.

I was really hoping for a themed Old Gods Showdown - C'thun vs. Yogg or N'zoth vs. Y'sssarj. Get people excited about the new legendaries by getting to try them out. Maybe even a setup of 4 themed decks instead of 2, randomly determined.