How long should it take to build a castle?

[NerdHut]

I'm DMing a campaign that will eventually have a single location as the home for my players. It'll be a while, but I want to give them the option to build their own base. There will be pre-existing buildings in town they can purchase, but I suspect they will want to build as big as possible. And that probably means a fort or a castle. I've been looking through the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook recently, and while there's tons of info on how much a building should cost, I can't find much on how long it shouldk take to build.

Small castles in the real world often took a couple years to build, and the largest ones took decades. But they didn't have magic to help them. My players do. So, assuming they build something along the lines of the Cheap Keep in the SBG (pg 105), how long do you think it should take to build with some magical assistance?

[Mystral]

I'm DMing a campaign that will eventually have a single location as the home for my players. It'll be a while, but I want to give them the option to build their own base. There will be pre-existing buildings in town they can purchase, but I suspect they will want to build as big as possible. And that probably means a fort or a castle. I've been looking through the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook recently, and while there's tons of info on how much a building should cost, I can't find much on how long it shouldk take to build.

Small castles in the real world often took a couple years to build, and the largest ones took decades. But they didn't have magic to help them. My players do. So, assuming they build something along the lines of the Cheap Keep in the SBG (pg 105), how long do you think it should take to build with some magical assistance?

I don't think that magic is that big of a help in building a castle. The only spell that might come into use is the floating disc, and that one isn't something you can't replicate with a cart. Telekinesis would be a good spell for heavy lifting, but a level 5 spell for a few minutes? Meh.

I'd say, keep it at a year or so.

[Bullet06320]

I don't think that magic is that big of a help in building a castle. The only spell that might come into use is the floating disc, and that one isn't something you can't replicate with a cart. Telekinesis would be a good spell for heavy lifting, but a level 5 spell for a few minutes? Meh.

I'd say, keep it at a year or so.

wall of stone, wall of iron, dig, fabricate, lots of other good spells can be used, the right summons for niche work, planar binding, animate dead for zombie workers, unseen servant used creativily. lots of possibilities

as for as building times, 2nd edition castle guide is probly the best resource for that

[Max Caysey]

I don't think that magic is that big of a help in building a castle. The only spell that might come into use is the floating disc, and that one isn't something you can't replicate with a cart. Telekinesis would be a good spell for heavy lifting, but a level 5 spell for a few minutes? Meh.

I'd say, keep it at a year or so.

Yeah... Thats not right. There are tons of spells, besides the wall spells, move earth comes to mind. Polymorph Any Object... So I would say, that spells easylly could reduce the building time (denpending on number of mages) by half. Maybe even more. One could arguably create a high level spell, to build the caslte itself...

Create Castle
Conjurations (creatione)
Casting time one day
Durations instantaneous
Range madium
Saving throw NIL
SR no
Material component All the materials needed for the castle

[Knaight]

It depends on the castle. There were some smaller ones assembled by armies in the field in only a couple month, and then there are multi generation works.

You could try to use the craft rules for this, but I suspect the easiest way to do it would be to find the most analogous real castle or three, and then find out how long it (they) took to build, shaving time off for magical use as needed.

[Elder_Basilisk]

It depends on the castle. There were some smaller ones assembled by armies in the field in only a couple month, and then there are multi generation works.

You could try to use the craft rules for this, but I suspect the easiest way to do it would be to find the most analogous real castle or three, and then find out how long it (they) took to build, shaving time off for magical use as needed.

Either that or figure out the volume of stone required and calculate the required number of walls of stone then divide that by the number of walls of stone the PCs or engineer need to cast per day. If you want skill checks, you might extrapolate from the craft rules and require a knowledge engineering check for the overall castle creation and if it's a failure, rule that 50% of the castings were wasted and you'll need another check and 50% more time to make it right.

And you might require a move earth spell or two or a bunch of labor in order to dig the ditch, level the ground, lay out proper drainage, etc. Plus fabricate and workmen to add things like doors, portcullises, etc which you won't be able to do with wall of stone. Stoneshape could take care of some things like decorative gargoyles, murder holes, sculptures, etc.

[Gildedragon]

The Stronghold Builders Guide has some guidelines as to how long a castle takes to be raised.
A bard with a lyre of building can cut down on the time fast.

[Fuzzy McCoy]

If you're using the SBG, it's one week per 10000 gp of the final building cost - assuming magic. Pages 9 and 10 talk about the final build time and labor costs.

If you're not using magic, but have unusual help - giants, master dwarf crafters, a futuristic crane, etc. - you can probably assume no longer than 5-10 years, depending on the size. If it's just a keep, and you have good weather, it's possible to do in maybe 3-6 months.

Otherwise, if it's just a bunch of humanoid labor, I'd say 10 years at least.


One thing to keep in mind, though, is a lot of castles reached their present size gradually. You'd have a small keep, and then it would get slowly expanded, then rebuilt, then expanded some more, then partially destroyed, and rebuilt ... and so on until it reached today.

[Ruethgar]

If you wanted to go about it faster, War Unseen Servant can mine with amazing speed if you wanted to just carve out a mountainside, then you would only need to build the front(unless you had it inlaid into the cliff). You would need a 100% chance to make a Knowledge Engineering DC 20 for the duration of building though. Let's assume level 9 for access to the Landlord Feat. So that's 225, presumably medium(though technically colossal) creatures taking 10 on mining with let's say a Marshal for +5 or so in case of slightly more difficult rock that is 112 5ft cubes carved from the rock every 8hr. This would get you an unworked mine of sorts and you could probably use War Unseen Crafter to go for a more finished stone look from there. Unfortunately, the rules for building a Stronghold don't care about the vast numbers of workers you could have(War Unseen Crafter instead) and even casting a Circle Magic War Wall of Stone does very little to speed up a Stronghold despite(with the aforementioned knowledge check) being able to create enough walls to build an entire castle of stone, then just a matter of furnishing(a great deal of which could also be worked from the stone in a rough manner).

[Theobod]

The SBG is fairly comprehensive as to build times and what spells assist in it like wall of stone etc, a keep very rarely takes more than a couple months to build, tops, assuming you want to stick with the traditional fundamentals.

Ofc this is nothing like real life and the SBG, again, points this out fairly explicitly.

Reread the SBG with a fine tooth comb :smallsmile:

[Darth Ultron]

The only real answer is: as long as you want.

In the real world it took years to build a castle. Though even in the modern world we don't put up buildings overnight.

So it really just comes down too: however long you want.

[Zanos]

There's a seventh level spell that creates an entire castle with a 24 hour cast time. It's made of magic ice, but still. Ice Castle from Frostburn.

[ahenobarbi]

The Stronghold Builders Guide has some guidelines as to how long a castle takes to be raised.
A bard with a lyre of building can cut down on the time fast.

Exactly. If you hire someone who can make the check to continue playing reliably and doesn't need to rest(eg. an undead bard) they can do work of 100 men working for 2*24*7*3=1008 days (approximately 2,75 years) in a week. Could be enough to build a small castle.

[erok0809]

+1 to the Lyre of Building mentioned earlier. 1 hour of work is 100 humans working for 6 days, and for every hour past the first that this continues requires a DC 18 Perform (string instruments) check. If this check ever fails, you have to wait a week before it can be used again. That'll cut down the time by a lot. A level 5 bard with a 16 charisma should have at least a +11 to Perform, so it's not like hitting DC 18 is that hard. I still don't quite know what actual time it would take, since that's highly castle-dependent, but this should at least save a decent amount of time on it if you can find a reasonably leveled bard who can play strings.

Edit: Ninja'd, and with numbers too!

[Gildedragon]

Assume they take 10, 1000gp for a set of 2 mithril bells, 12 cha and 5 ranks will be enough.
Needn't be undead, can also be warforged

[Necroticplague]

Depends on what you have access to, and how massive a castle you want. Lyre of building held by a moderate-level Ghost Bard should let you build any reasonably sized castle in a day or so. A Spelldancer with Persisted Extended Undermaster could probably be similarly productive.

[thompur]

Yeah, I was going to say Lyre of Building and a Warforged Bard. You still need to gather the materials, but other than that, it should be done fairly quickly.

[Âmesang]

Personally I'd go with a succubus bard prestige classed into "disciple of metal (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471374-Homebrew-Disciple-of-Metal-PrC-(Sooth))." :smallcool:

[Tvtyrant]

There's a seventh level spell that creates an entire castle with a 24 hour cast time. It's made of magic ice, but still. Ice Castle from Frostburn.

Then just Ice to Flesh, then Flesh to Stone a few hundred times.

[Ruethgar]

Except Ice Castles don't last more than 48hr at most.

[Theobod]

That is due to melting yes? Ice to flesh stops that, brings in the issue of rot but that may take a while giving you time to get the flesh turned to stone. If you still end up with loss that's not really a big issue, just recast and repeat till you have enough space. You should get a small keep at least with some caster collaboration but even if it only results in a few rooms each cycle and even if the subsequent ice castles are misaligned worst case scenario you just have some seams and awkward shapes, it will still be solid stone and making a few modifications with stone shape is equally easy to smooth out the design and fix doors etc. Just hire an architect to make sure the design is sound as you go and bam. A few weeks tops for a castle.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't think that magic is that big of a help in building a castle. The only spell that might come into use is the floating disc, and that one isn't something you can't replicate with a cart. Telekinesis would be a good spell for heavy lifting, but a level 5 spell for a few minutes? Meh.

I'd say, keep it at a year or so.Err... Magic can be used to build a castle in a matter of a couple of days, for basically free. Summon/calling spells (including mount), and create undead for free labor and super-fast digging, wall of stone, stone shape, wall of iron, polymorph/polymorph any object, move earth, fabricate/greater fabricate, undermaster and all the spells that replicates, and other spells can perform ridiculous amounts of work in very little time. You should be able to get away with multiple castings of wall of stone and wall of iron in a handful of days and have the basic outer walls of your keep set up very, very fast.

A lyre of building can do stupid amounts of traditional work, as well. Hire a low level warforged bard for cheap, and they'll have it built in no time flat, because they won't need to worry about fatigue, eating, drinking, or sleeping.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you're using the SBG, it's one week per 10000 gp of the final building cost - assuming magic. Pages 9 and 10 talk about the final build time and labor costs.Or you could look at what magic can actually do, and instead build a fully fledged castle in a couple of days for free.

The SBG is a terrible resource to use wholesale for anyone with an Int score.

[Theobod]

Or you could look at what magic can actually do, and instead build a fully fledged castle in a couple of days for free.

The SBG is a terrible resource to use wholesale for anyone with an Int score.

Now now no need to sling an insult. Ultimately this will come down to the DM, options have been presented both side of this divide with equally valid methods. The SBG provides limits on what magic can do in the context of stronghold building and for tables using it that is RAW. For tables not using it the other options present a cool if oft quirky set of other means. Some tables may also use a mix of these rules as see fit, in which case the SBG will mostly be cribbed for ideas with magic being used to logical extent. Both work nicely and result in castles taking far less than RL build times so fit the timeframe of a campaign nicely. (Anywhere from days to weeks, rarely more than a few months for huge works)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Now now no need to sling an insult.Not an insult, at least to you. The writers were stupid. You just have to pay even a tiny amount of attention, and you'll see that the SBG is wrong.


Ultimately this will come down to the DM, options have been presented both side of this divide with equally valid methods. The SBG provides limits on what magic can do in the context of stronghold building and for tables using it that is RAW. For tables not using it the other options present a cool if oft quirky set of other means. Some tables may also use a mix of these rules as see fit, in which case the SBG will mostly be cribbed for ideas with magic being used to logical extent. Both work nicely and result in castles taking far less than RL build times so fit the timeframe of a campaign nicely. (Anywhere from days to weeks, rarely more than a few months for huge works)Or, again, you can see that the SBG is wrong, because magic can perform massive amounts of work very quickly, for free.

The listing for a single magically-made wall made from stone is extremely expensive, whereas wall of stone can make several adjoining walls for no cost at all.

The writers of the SBG paid no attention to what magic can actually do, even in Core, and decided to just throw a bunch of numbers around because it's more "realistic."

[Nifft]

DING.

I took the Landlord feat.

Look, I just got a castle and it's awesome.

- - -

SHUFFLE.

I drew the Throne card.

Look, I just got a castle and it's artifactarrific.

- - -

SCRIBE.

I learned Mage's Mansion.

Look, I just got a mobile extraplanar castle and it's magnificent.

- - -

LOOT.

I found an Instant Fortress.

Look, I just got a mobile inflatable castle and it's pretty cool.