Paladin bard multiclass (D&D 3.5)

[Sergio]

I'm planning on doing a paladin bard multiclass. I was checking this build:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Battle_Knight_Bard_of_Sublime_Chord_%283.5e_Optimi zed_Character_Build%29

My DM banishes all Tome of Battle build\features, so it seems ok for now. But I'm wondering:

> given my background, I would like to take paladin first (just the two levels) and then bard, instead of following the guide I've just published, and going first bard then paladin. Will I get any penalty?

> do you reccomend this build?

[Sgt. Cookie]

The A-Game Paladin ("http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471332-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-quot-A-quot-Game-Paladin-(Tempest_Stormwind)) does basically the same thing as Paladin/Bard and is somewhat better than multiclassing.

[Nifft]

The link above seems broken.

This link works:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471332-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-quot-A-quot-Game-Paladin-%28Tempest_Stormwind%29

[the_david]

Isn't there a feat that helps you multiclass in Paladin and Bard in Complete Adventurer?

There we go, Devoted Performer. You still have to be lawful, so you'll have to take levels in bard before becoming lawful and taking levels in Paladin.

It's not very good though.

Why would you take levels in Abjurant Champion? Bards aren't really good at abjuration spells and they won't get Shield anyway.

[Kelvarius]

But I'm wondering:

> given my background, I would like to take paladin first (just the two levels) and then bard, instead of following the guide I've just published, and going first bard then paladin. Will I get any penalty?

> do you reccomend this build?

1. You won't get any meaningful penalty, but the main reason it suggests Bard over Paladin to start is because of skill points. First level classes get x4 skill points, so instead of the 24 SP from a first level Bard, you get 8 SP from a first level Paladin. You'll always be 16 SP behind from Bard then Paladin. Not a game breaker, but there it is.

2. It works, both for usefulness and fluff purposes. The epitome of good Holy Warrior that's actually able to lead and INSPIRE the people he's with? Yes, please.

[Gildedragon]

There is the Initiate of Milil feat that has paladin and bard levels stack for what bardic music you can use

Harmonious Knight ACFs gets you bardic music as paladin.
Mystic Fire Knight Sub Levels get you extra spells

Paladin of Freedom doesn't have you fall when you Bard up

[Mato]

There are three ways you can add bardic music to a paladin.

The first and easiest is using harmonious knight (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a). It replaces detect evil & remove disease for inspire courage, competence, and greatness.

The second is using initiative of milil & devoted performer. You'll need to dip bard for a single level to actually have the bardic music class feature but the initiate feat allows you to add your paladin level to meet the minimum bard prerequisites and the devoted feat adds your paladin level to the number of bardic music usages per day.

The third and most cost extensive version is from song to smite. You don't get a lot of smite evil usages as an actual paladin without investment into a bunch of items or feats. All the feat does is allow you to convert them over to inspire courage.

And the reverse, paladin's cha-to-saves & smite evil added to a bard. Can be found on the X stat to Y bonus thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4369.0), like bard 7 / witch hunter 1 / battle dancer 1 with a bow of song gets charisma to saves, ac, attack, and damage; and smite evil picked up by a wide range of means.