The Green Lantern Corps arrives in 40K space!

[Tvtyrant]

On a day when a large number of new recruits are given their rings on Oa, the planet is suddenly transported into the 40K universe. 1,000 mostly fresh members of the Green Lantern Corps are trapped, along with the Guardians, out by Jericho Reach. They find themselves unable to return to their own universe, and must now explore this new universe.

My assumption about the results is that the GLC immediately topples pretty much every government they come across, leading to them entering into conflict with the Imperium and Tau first and then slowly dragging in other groups as they show their intolerance for other group's intolerance.

[The Glyphstone]

Unless they are moving en masse, raw recruits to the Corps aren't going to be doing much planet-conquering on their own. Even en masse; they might be able to defeat a standing army in battle (though again, inexperience - they're all basically going to be Ryan Reynolds from the GL live-action movie, doing things like conjuring giant green gatling guns to fight with), they certainly aren't going to be capable of doing anything about the institutional oppression and authoritarianism endemic to basically every facet of human society. At best, they'll manage to swarm and 'liberate' a planet, only to find themselves bogged down in a brutal guerilla war as they find out the population doesn't want to be liberated - particularly not by 'evil sorcerers'.

Then the Navy shows up, however many years later.

[Tvtyrant]

Unless they are moving en masse, raw recruits to the Corps aren't going to be doing much planet-conquering on their own. Even en masse; they might be able to defeat a standing army in battle (though again, inexperience - they're all basically going to be Ryan Reynolds from the GL live-action movie, doing things like conjuring giant green gatling guns to fight with), they certainly aren't going to be capable of doing anything about the institutional oppression and authoritarianism endemic to basically every facet of human society. At best, they'll manage to swarm and 'liberate' a planet, only to find themselves bogged down in a brutal guerilla war as they find out the population doesn't want to be liberated - particularly not by 'evil sorcerers'.

Then the Navy shows up, however many years later.

I am fairly sure that GL battles and destroys space ships on a regular basis, and the Corps has spent most of its history beating armadas of them. Whether they would do well at beating rebellions, I don't think 40K fleets would fair well considering they have a hard time aiming at drop pods, much less individual men and women.

[comicshorse]

I'm not a big enough GL fan to answer this but how do the rings do against magic/psychic stuff because the Empire on its own probably has enough psykers to put a major crimp in even this many GL's day

[Misery Esquire]

Its only a matter of time before some Newb Lantern jobs it and dies to an Ork Warboss.

Then you'll really see GREEN LANTERNS.

[The Glyphstone]

I am fairly sure that GL battles and destroys space ships on a regular basis, and the Corps has spent most of its history beating armadas of them. Whether they would do well at beating rebellions, I don't think 40K fleets would fair well considering they have a hard time aiming at drop pods, much less individual men and women.

Targeting orbital projectile like drop pods is different than fighting in-space...you don't need to score a direct hit when you're carpeting a few cubic kilometers of space in explosive shells each broadside. GL adepts are best analogized to the Eldar in this direct comparison, as poor as the comparison is otherwise - rare, strong "psychic" talent, with skill and speed but not exceptionally resilient beyond what their powers and/or native biology (which will be extremely divergent, being 1000 candidates from up to 1000 different planets or sectors). Spaceships in the DCverse fight in high sci-fi style with lasers and missile and individually targeted projectiles; Imperial ships just dump hundreds of shells into space at once and carpet an area in boom hoping to catch something.

On the small scale, their individual prowess is unmatched in direct combat, but it's also limited by their numbers, and they aren't replenishable. 1000 Corpspeople will fritter away relatively fast against something the size of the Imperium if things like Vindicare Assassins start hunting them (though getting an Assassin deployed against you means you have earned the status of Very Big Problem, so in a way this is still a win).


But let's look at it from another perspective - the ability to hold territory they've taken. The Imperium sees absolutely nothing wrong with obliterating a planet they deem unrecoverable though it is considered a last resort, while the Corps is definitely strongly Good-aligned. How many Corpspeople will they have to allocate to defend each planet they 'liberate', and will they be willing to keep doing so when it becomes clear that the ultimate fate of a planet they've successfully defended is to have the entire population die in apocalyptic firestorms or horrific plague?

[comicshorse]

On the small scale, their individual prowess is unmatched in direct combat, but it's also limited by their numbers, and they aren't replenishable. 1000 Corpspeople will fritter away relatively fast against something the size of the Imperium if things like Vindicare Assassins start hunting them (though getting an Assassin deployed against you means you have earned the status of Very Big Problem, so in a way this is still a win).


Well that's another thing. Last time I checked if a GL is killed the ring flies off and finds a new bearer. Obviously in the DC Universe this is fine as the Gaurdians can bring them in and train them and indoctrinate them but in the 40K universe this is going to bring about some GL's with some very strange beliefs :smallcool:

Quite frankly Tszeentch is just going to love the opportunities this will bring about

[The Glyphstone]

For some reason I thought the rings had to be passed on directly, the way Hal Jordan got his. But if they are truly autonomous, that's even more likely to result in FUN, because AFAIK, the rings themselves are ethics-neutral, they simply care about Willpower and strength of will - it's the Corps itself that maintains their internal morality. And the 40K universe is certainly not short of individuals with tremendous willpower, only the ends to which they devote it won't typically mesh up with the Corps party line.

[Hida Reju]

Its only a matter of time before some Newb Lantern jobs it and dies to an Ork Warboss.

Then you'll really see GREEN LANTERNS.

Yep go ask an Imperial Commissar or and Eldar Farseer about Willpower. The Imp would commit suicide before accepting the Eldar would debate it for 100+ years before using it.

But the better question is how long before a Chaos Green Lantern shows up?

[The Glyphstone]

Yep go ask an Imperial Commissar or and Eldar Farseer about Willpower. The Imp would commit suicide before accepting the Eldar would debate it for 100+ years before using it.

But the better question is how long before a Chaos Green Lantern shows up?

A radical Inquisitor, on the other hand, would be all over that ****. Eldar Pirates, or worse Dark Eldar, would be fine with it too. Though the idea of a Warboss who manages to claim a ring is indeed a terrifying thought - they basically define Willpower as a collective, especially when the manifestation of such is Green.

[Forum Explorer]

But let's look at it from another perspective - the ability to hold territory they've taken. The Imperium sees absolutely nothing wrong with obliterating a planet they deem unrecoverable though it is considered a last resort, while the Corps is definitely strongly Good-aligned. How many Corpspeople will they have to allocate to defend each planet they 'liberate', and will they be willing to keep doing so when it becomes clear that the ultimate fate of a planet they've successfully defended is to have the entire population die in apocalyptic firestorms or horrific plague?

I don't think they'd do that, pretty much ever. Not against GL anyways. Well okay some planets because it has secrets that 'Must Not Fall Into Enemy Hands' but the normal planets would be left alone. The Imperium, well it isn't happy to let Chaos or Orks own an important planet for generations of time, but it is considered more acceptable then just blowing it to oblivion. Planets are valuable and as long as it takes a non-infinite amount of Guardsmen to conquer it, the Imperium will pay that price instead of sacrificing it, barring circumstances like a Hive Fleet (IE it's about to be eaten and turned into weapons against you), or a Chaos Artifact is turning it into a Daemonworld (You'll never get the planet back, and it'll corrupt anyone who tries to visit it), they won't resort to Exterminatus.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't think they'd do that, pretty much ever. Not against GL anyways. Well okay some planets because it has secrets that 'Must Not Fall Into Enemy Hands' but the normal planets would be left alone. The Imperium, well it isn't happy to let Chaos or Orks own an important planet for generations of time, but it is considered more acceptable then just blowing it to oblivion. Planets are valuable and as long as it takes a non-infinite amount of Guardsmen to conquer it, the Imperium will pay that price instead of sacrificing it, barring circumstances like a Hive Fleet (IE it's about to be eaten and turned into weapons against you), or a Chaos Artifact is turning it into a Daemonworld (You'll never get the planet back, and it'll corrupt anyone who tries to visit it), they won't resort to Exterminatus.

Even the Imperium has 'cut your losses' moments. If the GLs can be overcome with an army of Guardsmen that isn't so large that it'll cost more important planets, they'll of course use a conventional invasion. If they can be assassinated individually and weakened to the point where said invasion can be successful, they'll do it. But the Imperium can't afford to have a planet stolen from them by rogue sorcerers and just left to fester in the middle of their territory for who knows how long; if the value of a planet is less than the cost of recapturing it (this number is extremely large, but it is finite), they'll suck up the loss and smoke it. My point is that it's a lose-lose situation for the Lanterns, though. Either they can be beaten by enough conventional troops/special troops, in which case they'll lose after said quantity of conventional troops is thrown at them; or they cannot be beaten by such, in which case their planet gets set on fire.

[Ronnoc]

Targeting orbital projectile like drop pods is different than fighting in-space...you don't need to score a direct hit when you're carpeting a few cubic kilometers of space in explosive shells each broadside.

That tactic doesn't actually make much sense, if we're assuming realistic engagement ranges then carpeting a few cubic kilometers is still precision firing and the GL speed and manueverability will negate it. If we're assuming knife fight range (especially as displayed in the comics) then saturation fire like that just means you've hit yourself.

[Forum Explorer]

Even the Imperium has 'cut your losses' moments. If the GLs can be overcome with an army of Guardsmen that isn't so large that it'll cost more important planets, they'll of course use a conventional invasion. If they can be assassinated individually and weakened to the point where said invasion can be successful, they'll do it. But the Imperium can't afford to have a planet stolen from them by rogue sorcerers and just left to fester in the middle of their territory for who knows how long; if the value of a planet is less than the cost of recapturing it (this number is extremely large, but it is finite), they'll suck up the loss and smoke it. My point is that it's a lose-lose situation for the Lanterns, though. Either they can be beaten by enough conventional troops/special troops, in which case they'll lose after said quantity of conventional troops is thrown at them; or they cannot be beaten by such, in which case their planet gets set on fire.

Sure they can. Well, it depends on which planet and where, but the Imperium has lost planets, planets that have then languished under enemy rule for decades or more before being reclaimed.

Now if they continuously are unable to do anything about it, then they might try blowing up the planet in order to kill all of the GL on it.

[The Glyphstone]

That tactic doesn't actually make much sense, if we're assuming realistic engagement ranges then carpeting a few cubic kilometers is still precision firing and the GL speed and manueverability will negate it. If we're assuming knife fight range (especially as displayed in the comics) then saturation fire like that just means you've hit yourself.

Their anti-torpedo/small craft turret defenses function on the same principle - saturation fire to overcome poor accuracy. And even if they have to dump antiship broadsides at point-blank range (blindly, since a man-sized target wont even register on their gunnery sensors), their armor is designed to stand up to people also firing similarly sized broadsides at them, so presumably they could take a few of those before suffering severe damage, whereas an unarmored dude flying around in a green bodysuit is chunky salsa after the first such barrage.

And as far as 'realistic engagement ranges' go...40K space weapons are capable of hitting targets in a 40,000 to 150,000KM engagement range for the majority of their armaments, trending to the lower end of that scale. When a single ship ranges from 1-5km long, in a 1 million cubic kilometer volume, being able to put a salvo of any kind on target is exceptionally accurate in relative terms.



Sure they can. Well, it depends on which planet and where, but the Imperium has lost planets, planets that have then languished under enemy rule for decades or more before being reclaimed.

Now if they continuously are unable to do anything about it, then they might try blowing up the planet in order to kill all of the GL on it.

It depends on the planet. Fringe worlds, they can afford to do that with, since they are low priority and the Guard can get around to liberating it 'eventually'. Their ability to do so is never in question, it's just that the cost of doing it 'now' is too high. But if the planet in question is smack in the heart of a sector or Segmentum, it becomes a much higher priority to solve the problem one way or another, and the more extreme solutions start to hit the table. For that matter, if the Imperium isn't aware of the finite number of Rings, and their spies report a random citizen of the planet now carrying a Ring, they might panic and just declare Exterminatus on the spot, rather than risk these green-tinged sorcerers replicating out of control. Kill the bodies to save the souls and whatnot.

[JCarter426]

Well that's another thing. Last time I checked if a GL is killed the ring flies off and finds a new bearer. Obviously in the DC Universe this is fine as the Gaurdians can bring them in and train them and indoctrinate them but in the 40K universe this is going to bring about some GL's with some very strange beliefs
The Guardians have complete control over the rings, even when they're in use by a lantern, so that's not going to happen.

But if you're going to include the Guardians, it's no contest. These are the guys that have ruled the DC universe since its creation. The only beings that have ever been a threat to them are ones of their own creation. They fought a sentient galaxy.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah...there's no point in trying to discuss the conflict if god-tier beings get involved. I presume they're not involved, though, since they weren't mentioned in the OP, so the rings would be operating according to their own devices, whatever that might be. If that means they just sit inert due to the lack of Guardians to remote-steer them to a proper bearer, that just brings us full circle to my original concern.

[Tvtyrant]

I am assuming that the Guardians did not come with, and the rings redistribute themselves as normal (but cannot warp thenselves into the immaterium).

[Foeofthelance]

Yeah...there's no point in trying to discuss the conflict if god-tier beings get involved. I presume they're not involved, though, since they weren't mentioned in the OP, so the rings would be operating according to their own devices, whatever that might be. If that means they just sit inert due to the lack of Guardians to remote-steer them to a proper bearer, that just brings us full circle to my original concern.

The rings don't rely on the Guardians to find a new bearer, but the Guardians are supposed to have overrides for the rings. To my knowledge there's only a handful of Guardians around at any given time, and they're usually busy with other projects to pay much attention to where the rings go. Unless the candidate tends to be as mouthy as the human ring bearers usually are or the person wielding the ring is doing so poorly, the Guardians just let it be. The Rings themselves don't really pay too much attention to the morality of the person wielding them, as Sinestro was allowed to basically conquer his own planet and since the introduction of the other emotional spectrums several people have worn Green rings aside both Red and Yellow rings. They usually just search for people displaying great Will, which is usually defined by the ring as "defying long odds despite a slim chance of victory". So it would be entirely possible for a Commissar about to be overrun by Necrons to suddenly find himself commanding holographic Leeman Russ's, or for an Ork Warboss about to be annihilated by the Imperium to discover he is now Super Green.

[The Glyphstone]

Do they physically move around to find their new bearers, or do they just sort of appear?

[ChaosPerfected]

The original post does say "along with the Guardians", although they don't really do anything normally anyway.

[Jayngfet]

Yeah, an average rookie GL's lifespan isn't terribly long to begin with. The average rookie's lifespan is less than two issues and it's not uncommon in trades and anthologies to see one GL die, then another to appear, then for that one to die and his ring to be passed on in a twisted cycle.

The power of a ring in a good hands shouldn't be trifled with though. You can destroy and remake entire worlds rapidly if you know what you're doing, and attacking rapid fire projectiles in space is so common it's basically the GL equivalent of filler work to say "ten thousand astroids are going to destroy this planet, you have one minute or it's going to die". While an individual lantern may not be superman the GL ring is essentially the most powerful mass produced weapon in it's home universe by a wide margin. It allows faster than light speeds, the ability to open wormholes to other points across multiple galaxies(because a single lantern is expected to patrol multiple galaxies), provide infinite sustinance provided the ring stays charged, and replicate any chemicals the bearer knows about. Once you've got enough experience or help it can even act as a time machine, allowing you to span tens of thousands of years in an instant.

No matter what happens to the initial recruits I expect the guardians to manufacture more rings immediatley. They can override the safety on any existing ones and allow them to self replicate. So their 1000 will more than triple into their usual numbers then do their jobs.

Though keeping in character they're probably going to ignore the imperium and focus on stuff like Necrons and Tyranids.

[The Glyphstone]

The OP just said, a few posts up, that the Guardians aren't present (contradicting the thread start, admittedly). If they are, as said - there's no versus to discuss, because physically incarnate god-tier beings will effortlessly flatten anything 40K has to offer. The Corp exists merely to run trivial errands for them and fetch cold beers from the fridge, they don't need to manufacture any new rings when they can do all the work personally.

[Jayngfet]

To be fair though, jailbreaking a power ring also isn't hard. Provieded even like 1% of the lanterns lasts a month or two they'd likley make it without much effort. Most of the reason other lanterns don't is because they have some kind of ideal or else a guardian will bust them. But without any guardians to stop them and a full galactic war I'm assuming one of them will start doing it sooner rather than later.

[Coidzor]

Yep go ask an Imperial Commissar or and Eldar Farseer about Willpower. The Imp would commit suicide before accepting the Eldar would debate it for 100+ years before using it.

But the better question is how long before a Chaos Green Lantern shows up?

Alternatively, how long before one of them falls to Chaos after being exposed to mutagenic substances, the Warp, or any of the number of other things that makes you go crazy and evil in 40K.


A radical Inquisitor, on the other hand, would be all over that ****. Eldar Pirates, or worse Dark Eldar, would be fine with it too. Though the idea of a Warboss who manages to claim a ring is indeed a terrifying thought - they basically define Willpower as a collective, especially when the manifestation of such is Green.

Eldar... Pirates? That aren't Dark Eldar? Huh. :smallconfused: How does that work?


Their anti-torpedo/small craft turret defenses function on the same principle - saturation fire to overcome poor accuracy. And even if they have to dump antiship broadsides at point-blank range (blindly, since a man-sized target wont even register on their gunnery sensors), their armor is designed to stand up to people also firing similarly sized broadsides at them, so presumably they could take a few of those before suffering severe damage, whereas an unarmored dude flying around in a green bodysuit is chunky salsa after the first such barrage.

Isn't that why GL have the whole forcefield shields, both on the immediately around their body level and the forming a sphere of force or whatever of some arbitrary size around themselves level?


It depends on the planet. Fringe worlds, they can afford to do that with, since they are low priority and the Guard can get around to liberating it 'eventually'. Their ability to do so is never in question, it's just that the cost of doing it 'now' is too high. But if the planet in question is smack in the heart of a sector or Segmentum, it becomes a much higher priority to solve the problem one way or another, and the more extreme solutions start to hit the table. For that matter, if the Imperium isn't aware of the finite number of Rings, and their spies report a random citizen of the planet now carrying a Ring, they might panic and just declare Exterminatus on the spot, rather than risk these green-tinged sorcerers replicating out of control. Kill the bodies to save the souls and whatnot.

Well, we are putting them in or outside of the Jericho Reach (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Jericho_Reach), which is on the fringes of Ultima Segmentum. Or in Ultima Segmentum on the fringes of the Imperium, and is apparently mostly under the control of Chaos.

It also has a Tyranid Hivefleet coming in from the "Northeast" and Tau to the South that are moving into it, so depending upon where Oa ends up, they may end up being instantly eaten by the Nids or meeting the Tau, with whatever that entails, potentially giving them a less volatile source of recruits or even allies, maybe.

It seems mostly that they'll be encountering a lot of former Imperial worlds in Chaos hands/tentacles/claws/furry paws. There's currently the Anchillus Crusade going on, though, and a lot of Deathwatch in the area, so it's quite possible that they might be dismissed as merely one sect of heretics amongst millions until they'd carved out some territory for themselves.

Of course, I have no idea how the Corps would be able to fare against the population of a Chaos-controlled world and I imagine they would be chewed up pretty badly if they went near a Daemonworld.

How do you pacify a population of Slaaneshi or Khornate cultists without just killing them all? I can't remember enough about them to decide whether they'd give up and bugger off from a world of cultists like that or if they'd realize they have to kill just about everyone and everything on the planet, since even the lowliest slaves are pretty much lost causes, even from a non-Imperial perspective.

[The Glyphstone]

Eldar... Pirates? That aren't Dark Eldar? Huh. :smallconfused: How does that work?



Eldar Corsairs. Outcasts from the Craftworlds who wander around the galaxy as pirates because they find Craftworld life too stifling and oppressive...its basically the Eldar version of the 'rebellious teenager phase', basically, only it lasts for a few decades.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eldar_Corsair

[GAZ]

As I understand it, the planet-Lantern Mogo the one responsible for guiding power rings to their next bearer. Mogo is definitely not a newb and won't be in 40k verse per OP. So if one of these GL's bites it, his or her ring will just fall down rather to actively search out than searching out a nearby candidate. Most 40k folk wouldn't be able to use a GL power ring anyway, since it requires not just Willpower but also "the ability to overcome great fear." Everybody in 40k either lives in fear of heresy or xenos or extinction or is biologically incapable of feeling great fear and thus incapable of overcoming it.

Outside of the ring bearer technicalities, Green Lanterns are horrible matches for Warhammer fleets or squads. They're way too small to be targeted by ships, way too fast to be targeted by troops, and their shields can tank shots capable of cracking moons if somebody happens to get lucky. Their FTL is faster and much much safer than 40k's. Their communication net can instantly transmit across the universe. Their willpower is too much for all but the strongest of sorcerers or farseers to mess with. Unless the whole Corps gets bogged down fighting like an army of titans or something ridiculous like that, the Lanterns can run guerilla warfare practically forever since they actually don't need any resources beyond their rings and batteries.

[GloatingSwine]

The OP just said, a few posts up, that the Guardians aren't present (contradicting the thread start, admittedly). If they are, as said - there's no versus to discuss, because physically incarnate god-tier beings will effortlessly flatten anything 40K has to offer. The Corp exists merely to run trivial errands for them and fetch cold beers from the fridge, they don't need to manufacture any new rings when they can do all the work personally.

The Guadians of the Universe aren't that beefy.

In fact most of their existence barring the creation of the Green Lantern Corps is a string of embarassing screwups, defeats, rebellions, factional splits, descents into evil, and poor decisions that come back to bite them in the ass.

They'd be more like a cabal of Daemon Princes if they were in 40k. Powerful and not to be messed with directly, but not "instantly stomp galaxy forever" especially because they're frequently their own worst enemy.

[Ravian]

Their anti-torpedo/small craft turret defenses function on the same principle - saturation fire to overcome poor accuracy. And even if they have to dump antiship broadsides at point-blank range (blindly, since a man-sized target wont even register on their gunnery sensors), their armor is designed to stand up to people also firing similarly sized broadsides at them, so presumably they could take a few of those before suffering severe damage, whereas an unarmored dude flying around in a green bodysuit is chunky salsa after the first such barrage.

And as far as 'realistic engagement ranges' go...40K space weapons are capable of hitting targets in a 40,000 to 150,000KM engagement range for the majority of their armaments, trending to the lower end of that scale. When a single ship ranges from 1-5km long, in a 1 million cubic kilometer volume, being able to put a salvo of any kind on target is exceptionally accurate in relative terms.


I'm really not sure that 40k ships are really up for fighting something like a Green Lantern. Yes, their strategy is massive arms fire and simply filling space with enough shots to take out torpedos and boarding craft, but even that is largely being designed for objects that really aren't terribly maneuverable.

Don't forget that Lanterns aren't slouches on defense either, sure your average rookie won't have much luck blocking a macrobattery, but I think they wouldn't be bad at dodging and deflecting the hail they use for point-defenses, especially given how unused the crew would be trying to accurately target something human-sized.

It's not a simple affair to get through a ship's armor, but I think they're certainly capable of it, given enough time (remember that 40k space battle actually tend to take forever given the relative speeds and distances of everything involved. A green Lantern has plenty of time to can-opener that hull open.)

I'd say they'd probably want to work in small teams to take down ships, but I certainly think it would be very possible for them


As for other situations in the universe. I can't help but think that they might reasonably be able to make an effective alliance with the Tau. Tau certainly aren't known for willpower (given their relationship with the Etherals.) and I doubt the Corps would be thrilled by the more fascist elements of their society, but the Tau have a very firm place as "least worst" of the factions, and given their situation in a largely hostile universe, it might just be good strategic sense to make overtures to the whole "greater good thing".

Of course if I was writing this story I would have Commander Farsight get a ring just to complicate the whole matter. (And because the idea of him fighting in a green battlesuit powered by his own willpower would be awesome.)

Extrapolating from this, how would the other ring colors fare?
Yellow and Red would do quite well obviously, yellow nearly establishing itself as the official ring of chaos if not for the number of red lantern Khornates.

Granted, Yellow and Red certainly wouldn't be limited to chaos. Yellow would likely be able to find a great home among the Dark Eldar. (though they'd probably be limited to whomever they could find in real space, given that I'm not sure if a ring would try to go to the webway to find a bearer.) Red will certainly be able to find some angry folks in the Imperium, and given that red rings tend to drive their wearers crazy, they'll probably be able to keep some bearers there instead of the mass suicides that would likely happen whenever a non-mind altering ring tried to choose someone from the Imperium.

What are the rings' opinions on hive minds? Obviously most rings wouldn't find anything of interest in the Tyranids but I'm somewhat curious whether "ability to cause great fear" would be able to make some particularly terrifying tyrannids suitable candidates for yellow rings.

Indigo takes a deep breath and keeps on looking for more psychopaths to be forcibly converted to compassion.

Purple seems mostly unchanged, a few Slaaneshi become particularly weird Star Sapphires, but love doesn't seem like it would be any less common in 40k, for all of its horribleness (especially given that the Star Sapphires aren't about kindness or anything.) Might be interesting to consider if many Sisters of Battle might get chosen for their love of the Emperor.

Finally the blue rings go look to find some corner of the galaxy to cry in.

Of course eventually we'd just get black lanterns showing up and we just have another malevolent entity trying to destroy the galaxy. (That makes... Three now? Four? We got Tyrannids and Necrons already, am I forgetting anything else that craves the destruction of all living things.)

((Kind of weird now that I think about it but with the exception to a few Red Lanterns, the race most likely to have the largest number of Green lanterns compared to anything else would probably be the Orks. Though as someone pointed out, their willpower would mainly exist in groups. That would be a terrifying thing to behold. An Ork Waaugh backed up by a power ring amped up on their collective willpower.))

[The Glyphstone]

Fair point on the space battles - antiship weapons really aren't going to be of any use against Lanterns at all, the only threat to them will be flak turrets, depending on how long they can maintain their shields. If anything, it'll be the sheer size of the ships that 'defeats' them - unless they can keep an impenetrable shield up indefinitely even as a novice, they'll have to retreat before running out of energy/stamina. A group of them working in shifts could take out a ship, but it'll be a slow process regardless - and if they're really unlucky, the ship will explode and catch them in the plasma drive detonation (or worse a Warp Rift). Space is going to be pretty safe for them, but not without danger.

Technically speaking, the Tyranids would only be eligible for a single ring, since they share a single hive mind. But that ring would almost certainly be Orange - what better personification of Greed can you find than a swarm of intergalactic locusts who devour and consume everything of potential value on a planet, including their own dead, down to the bedrock?

And that one Orange ring is going to be absolutely terrifyingly powerful, with the full might of the Hive Mind backing it, even if it can only be in one place at a time.

[Coidzor]

If I had been drinking milk when I read the idea that Slaaneshis are capable of love, I would have had it come out of my nose.

Nurgle is capable of love and maybe Nurgleites, but definitely not Slaanesh or his/her cultists. They're all about hedonistic sex, debauchery, and murder-****ing.

Granted, I suppose it's entirely possible that the people at DC have some strange ideas about what love entails.


And that one Orange ring is going to be absolutely terrifyingly powerful, with the full might of the Hive Mind backing it, even if it can only be in one place at a time.

Isn't the Orange ring practically defined by its ability to self-replicate but still only be the one ring?

[The Glyphstone]

If I had been drinking milk when I read the idea that Slaaneshis are capable of love, I would have had it come out of my nose.

Nurgle is capable of love and maybe Nurgleites, but definitely not Slaanesh or his/her cultists. They're all about hedonistic sex, debauchery, and murder-****ing.

Granted, I suppose it's entirely possible that the people at DC have some strange ideas about what love entails.



Isn't the Orange ring practically defined by its ability to self-replicate but still only be the one ring?

Maybe? I'm admittedly not up on the intricacies of Lantern lore, I just know Orange Lanterns (well, technically Orange Lantern, since apparently there is only one actual living member of the OLC) are powered by Greed.


Blue Rings...Tzeentch is the god of Hope. Amusingly, he's also strongly associated with the color Blue, so I think we know where any of these rings are ending up.

Indigo is SOL though, unless they can somehow find a member of the Salamanders chapter of Space Marines.

Violet might be able to find some hosts in the Sisters of Battle, but otherwise they're in trouble. Slaaneshi worshippers love nothing but themselves, so they make poor hosts, and while Nurgle himself feels love, his worshippers and followers are primarily driven by despair, pain, and the fear of death.

[Ravian]

Fair point on the space battles - antiship weapons really aren't going to be of any use against Lanterns at all, the only threat to them will be flak turrets, depending on how long they can maintain their shields. If anything, it'll be the sheer size of the ships that 'defeats' them - unless they can keep an impenetrable shield up indefinitely even as a novice, they'll have to retreat before running out of energy/stamina. A group of them working in shifts could take out a ship, but it'll be a slow process regardless - and if they're really unlucky, the ship will explode and catch them in the plasma drive detonation (or worse a Warp Rift). Space is going to be pretty safe for them, but not without danger.

Technically speaking, the Tyranids would only be eligible for a single ring, since they share a single hive mind. But that ring would almost certainly be Orange - what better personification of Greed can you find than a swarm of intergalactic locusts who devour and consume everything of potential value on a planet, including their own dead, down to the bedrock?

And that one Orange ring is going to be absolutely terrifyingly powerful, with the full might of the Hive Mind backing it, even if it can only be in one place at a time.

Of course the advantage of a Power ring and a human-sized lantern would be that they could work precisely, just keeping boring into a particular spot on a ship and eventually you'll get through. No risk of causing anything catastrophic if you only need a hole big enough for a human to get through. Once they were inside, they'd just have to disable the bridge to shut down communication and selectively cripple whatever they wanted.

As for the Tyrannids, I must say I forgot all about the Orange ring, and you're definitely right that that would be terrifying. It gets around the only one ring problem they have and it definitely augments their abilities significantly. Hell, one of the most noteworthy powers of the orange lantern ring is that it effectively assimilates the personality of anything it kills and twists it to serve the ring creating new energy constructs of them. For the Tyrannids that essentially means that they're using both the body and mind of everything they consume (double the efficiency!)

Don't forget that lantern rings can mean going faster than light speed, something that would significantly speed up the normally slow Tyrannid hive fleets.

Not to mention that with how the Tyrannids are, they'd start adapting to using the orange ring pretty quickly, I wonder if they could even try incorporating hard light into the biology of their troops. The constructs can hold out as long as the emotion guiding them doesn't waver, and it would be pretty difficult to make the hive mind waver in wanting to consume everything, so essentially it would have access to a device that can create a near infinite supply of permanent, effectively unbreakable material that can take any form its bearer desires.

:smalleek:

Whelp. GG guys, galaxy had a nice run.

[Chives]

I'm not a big enough GL fan to answer this but how do the rings do against magic/psychic stuff because the Empire on its own probably has enough psykers to put a major crimp in even this many GL's day

GLs don't use psychic powers directly, however IIRC Kama Tui was pretty sure that you'd need only two rings to mind control a planet. And the rings translate languages directly to a lantern's brain, so there's definitely some psychic power there.

[Ravian]

If I had been drinking milk when I read the idea that Slaaneshis are capable of love, I would have had it come out of my nose.

Nurgle is capable of love and maybe Nurgleites, but definitely not Slaanesh or his/her cultists. They're all about hedonistic sex, debauchery, and murder-****ing.

Granted, I suppose it's entirely possible that the people at DC have some strange ideas about what love entails.



Isn't the Orange ring practically defined by its ability to self-replicate but still only be the one ring?

I don't think that Slaaneshi star sapphires (that's a bit of a tongue twister) would necessarily be common, but you have to realize that Star Sapphires aren't really the most "stable" individuals. They're defined less specifically by love and more by having felt loved and become scorned, which leads to them trying to spread "love" throughout the universe by encasing people and entire planets in purple crystal to preserve them forever.

Meanwhile there is typically only ever one orange ring (There have been a couple of exceptions, but those were in extreme circumstances. This is mostly because you have to convince the orange lantern (chosen because they are the greediest creature in the universe) to somehow share their power with another being.

The self-replication is merely a component of being able to make semi-autonomous energy constructs modeled after the people the ring has killed but enslaved to the bearer's will.



Blue Rings...Tzeentch is the god of Hope. Amusingly, he's also strongly associated with the color Blue, so I think we know where any of these rings are ending up.

Indigo is SOL though, unless they can somehow find a member of the Salamanders chapter of Space Marines.

Violet might be able to find some hosts in the Sisters of Battle, but otherwise they're in trouble. Slaaneshi worshippers love nothing but themselves, so they make poor hosts, and while Nurgle himself feels love, his worshippers and followers are primarily driven by despair, pain, and the fear of death.

Tzeentch blue lanterns weren't something I'd considered. It would make for something rather twisted, especially considering that most blue lanterns are typically considered even bigger goodie-goodies than your average green lantern.

The thing to remember about the Indigo tribe though is that while they're guided by Compassion, it's actually very rare for a member to be selected because of their great compassion. Instead, Indigo power staffs (they don't use rings) typically are able to convert people into a compassionate mindset. This means that most of the Indigo tribe goes looking for the biggest psychopaths in the galaxy, those utterly incapable of feeling compassion for another, and forces them to adopt compassion and become a new member of the Indigo tribe.

It's very weird, but the 40k galaxy definitely doesn't have a shortage of psychopaths out there, so it's almost certain that the Indigo tribe would be able to find some new recruits.

[Mato]

On a day when a large number of new recruits are given their rings on Oa, the planet is suddenly transported into the 40K universe. 1,000 mostly fresh members of the Green Lantern Corps are trapped, along with the Guardians, out by Jericho Reach. They find themselves unable to return to their own universe, and must now explore this new universe.The GL, being an intergalactic police force, teams up with the Imperium against the clearly evil daemons.

But if the Imperium were to have a problem with them, they would lose. In DC the lantern rings are regarded as one of the most powerful devices in the universe. It imbues the wielder with knowledge of the universe allowing them to hivemind the knowledge learned from every member that explores the 40k universe. This ability extends to the point of every GL can enter a full color three dimensional playback of any event a ring was at irregardless of their ability to create simulacrums.

It inherently projects protection & limited healing fields over the wearer shown to be powerful enough to take sublight speed impacts and fly through black holes, the ring is also capable of providing a phasing ability allowing the user to ghost through objects and open wormholes for extremely fast movement rates far above light speed.

It can project anything the user imagines, often an ambiguous sphere or shape familiar to the user if they spend little thought on it. The projections have been shown powerful enough to squeeze small stars to palm sized balls and versatile enough to provide full illusions and invisibility when the user focuses his will to strengthen the projection or imagination to fully color the construct.

The ring is also capable of general energy absorption with an unknown limitation. Stolen power does not recharge the ring it's self (unless is it will or hope typed) but as far as stored & later released it appears limited to electricity. However even a standard ring has a pocket dimension and is capable of sealing creatures within it through it's finite limitations and need of a user makes that option inferior to using a battery. And perhaps it's greatest attribute is that in an emergency a ring can self duplicate and it's nonlethal limitation was fully turned off a few years ago.

And you also invite the possibility of the other colors being used. The GL corps use the light of will from the emotional spectrum which is a branch off the light of life it's self. Several GL corps members have used a second light. And while it appears hard to impossible to directly wield all seven colors without direct support from the entity of life. Everyone before Kyle tried to do it without the rings. Even a "pure" green lantern was able to use a white ring for a few seconds when granted permission from a white lantern. Since the rings are a technological interface designed to help wield an emotional light, it's entirely possible for new white lanterns to be trained through this possibility has yet to be explored.

[The Glyphstone]

The GL, being an intergalactic police force, teams up with the Imperium against the clearly evil daemons.

But if the Imperium were to have a problem with them, they would lose. In DC the lantern rings are regarded as one of the most powerful devices in the universe. It imbues the wielder with knowledge of the universe allowing them to hivemind the knowledge learned from every member that explores the 40k universe. This ability extends to the point of every GL can enter a full color three dimensional playback of any event a ring was at irregardless of their ability to create simulacrums.

It inherently projects protection & limited healing fields over the wearer shown to be powerful enough to take sublight speed impacts and fly through black holes, the ring is also capable of providing a phasing ability allowing the user to ghost through objects and open wormholes for extremely fast movement rates far above light speed.

It can project anything the user imagines, often an ambiguous sphere or shape familiar to the user if they spend little thought on it. The projections have been shown powerful enough to squeeze small stars to palm sized balls and versatile enough to provide full illusions and invisibility when the user focuses his will to strengthen the projection or imagination to fully color the construct.

The ring is also capable of general energy absorption with an unknown limitation. Stolen power does not recharge the ring it's self (unless is it will or hope typed) but as far as stored & later released it appears limited to electricity. However even a standard ring has a pocket dimension and is capable of sealing creatures within it through it's finite limitations and need of a user makes that option inferior to using a battery. And perhaps it's greatest attribute is that in an emergency a ring can self duplicate and it's nonlethal limitation was fully turned off a few years ago.

And you also invite the possibility of the other colors being used. The GL corps use the light of will from the emotional spectrum which is a branch off the light of life it's self. Several GL corps members have used a second light. And while it appears hard to impossible to directly wield all seven colors without direct support from the entity of life. Everyone before Kyle tried to do it without the rings. Even a "pure" green lantern was able to use a white ring for a few seconds when granted permission from a white lantern. Since the rings are a technological interface designed to help wield an emotional light, it's entirely possible for new white lanterns to be trained through this possibility has yet to be explored.

If these were a thousand elite, experienced lanterns, you'd be entirely correct. A Ring wielded by a skilled owner who knows how to use it properly is almost godlike. But the OP specifically called out 1,000 unnamed newbie recruits, fresh to their rings. They don't know any of the ultra-powerful tricks or techniques, lack the plot shields of named protagonists, and no one is available to teach them; if they discover the high-end ring usages, it'll be by sheer accident or coincidence. The Green Lantern movie was terrible for its portrayal of Hal Jordan (and everything else about it), but I strongly suspect that MovieHal is what most entry-level Lanterns would be trying to use their powers like in the total absence of anyone to instruct them. Raw power, but they have to survive in order to refine the technique.

[Tvtyrant]

One of the things that came to mind when I was thinking about this was the likelihood that the GLC members would fall to Chaos. Maybe not Slaneesh or Nurgle, but T and Khorne both embody ideals that could appeal to someone with tremendous power but who is very naive (Magnus).

[The Glyphstone]

Khorne, not very likely, not at first. You have to really, really want to kill, to shed blood, to [i]hurt/i] people to be attractive to the Lord of Skulls, or to be attracted to him. At least starting out, assuming the GLs have been indoctrinated with the Corp's ideals if not their experience just yet, they're very unlikely to find his philosophy attractive (Red Lanterns, on the other hand, would be tailor-made for him).

They'd start out idealistic and goody two-shoes space cops, and set about 'freeing' human populations from tyranny and/or fighting alien oppressors+evil bug swarms, etc. This could go one of several ways.

1)Best-case scenario, they're successful and retain their idealism in victory (but this is boring and makes for bad story). No Chaos corruption, no successful counterattacks, Green Lantern Corps wins and we all go home to eat pie.

2)Alternatively, if they are successful in their initial conquests, they could become proud and ambitious, now intent on bringing their 'enlightened' philosophy to the entire galaxy, not just one small corner of it. By letting Pride and Ambition start to rule their intent and decisions, they grow closer to Slaanesh. This outcome becomes more likely if they prove to be as overwhelmingly powerful as pro-GL fans such as (to pick a person in-thread at random) Mato are correct about the relative balance of power; the more they roflstomp their opposition, the easier it'll be for the Prince of Excess to worm its way into their hearts.

3)However, if they try to move out against the Imperium and fail, or end up in relative stalemate (or at least very, very slow progress), especially in scenarios where the Imperium deems them a big enough threat to warrant Assassins or even Exterminatus of captured planets, they might grow frustrated at their lack of success. They'll see all this potential for good, all these oppressed people trapped in stasis, and they'll want the status quo to Change. If they want it badly enough, they become vulnerable to the Great Conspirator - Just As Planned.

4)Now let's assume they launch their attacks and aren't simply beaten back or fended off, but crushed; they are in fact 1,000 copies of Movie Hal Jordan with his giant green fists and green gatling guns, and struggle to fight the ponderous glacial might of the Imperium's war machine - or worse, they get a few initial overwhelming victories, then the hammerblow counterattack falls. They're cut off from the Guardians, from their own universe, and their experienced instructors. They don't know what to do, only that everyone here wants to kill them and they are all alone. They feel despair and fear, their connections to their Rings start to falter in the face of this fear - but Papa Nurgle is there to lend a hand. He understands, he cares, and he'll take care of them, he'll protect them, if only they'll take care of some of his other children in turn.

5) And last, similar to the above - a total lack of success, or an initial success followed by crushing defeat. Instead of despair, though, the survivors of the counter-offensive are driven to rage. They want vengeance for the brutal slaughter of their fellow cadets, and they'll go to any lengths to get that revenge, kill anyone responsible or anyone who gets in their way. In the DC universe, this would likely see them transitioning to the Red Lanterns, but here, they become prime candidates for the temptations of the Lord of Skulls.

[Thinker]

My general assumption in anything versus WH40k is that WH40k will probably win. It's not out of love for the setting (I find it fairly boring), but that their power level is so much higher than most other settings. Add to that, anything approaching "magic" (like the rings would be) is often equated to psychic, which seems to always have terrible repercussions in the WH40k universe.

[Eldan]

The thing about 40k isn't that the average power level is that high (though some creatures are obviously godlike), but that it is just a lot bigger than other settings. There's a million or more human planets, with populations in the Trillions, for the largest. The entire human populatoin has sometimes been given in Quadrillions. The humans are probably outnumbered by orks. The thing is, they are advanced enough to defeat anyone that isn't advanced, and numerous enough to bog down most more advanced settings forever.

Which is the problem faced here. A Green Lantern against a guardsman isn't a contest. A Green Lantern against a thousand guardsmen probably isn't a contest. A Green Lantern won't even lose, as such, to a billion guardsmen. But they can't exactly win such a war, either.

(It's also a problem in 40k looking at space marines. Yes, a space marine can kill thousands. But he's in one place, he can't hold an inhabited planet.)

[The Glyphstone]

My general assumption in anything versus WH40k is that WH40k will probably win. It's not out of love for the setting (I find it fairly boring), but that their power level is so much higher than most other settings. Add to that, anything approaching "magic" (like the rings would be) is often equated to psychic, which seems to always have terrible repercussions in the WH40k universe.

There's not a lack of things that can squash 40K like a bug the way it squashes most other things - Lensmen, The Culture, Gurren Lagen, etc. - it's just that then tend to both be on the fringe of popular awareness, and that one-sided curbstomps make for boring versus battles.

[Ronnoc]

I would say that despite the disparities in the match up this ultimately comes down to narrative factors. Questions like; How many of the Green lantern recruits will be able to survive and become elites in the 40k setting. Do they have time to perfect their skills/run away before one of the God tier 40k characters notices them etc. I don't suppose anyone would be willing to knock on the Culture/40k thread and ask them to add a new contender to the mix?

[GloatingSwine]

My general assumption in anything versus WH40k is that WH40k will probably win. It's not out of love for the setting (I find it fairly boring), but that their power level is so much higher than most other settings. Add to that, anything approaching "magic" (like the rings would be) is often equated to psychic, which seems to always have terrible repercussions in the WH40k universe.


Depends. There aren't many things on the same level as 40k, and things that are more powerful than it tend to be apocalyptically so (nobody in 40k would stand a chance against, eg. Earth from Gunbuster. Probably not even if they all ganged up on it at once, the Space Monster fleet in E6 contains around eight billion ships, many of them the size of moons, and it only takes Earth's fleet about 15 minutes to kill them all)

[The Glyphstone]

I would say that despite the disparities in the match up this ultimately comes down to narrative factors. Questions like; How many of the Green lantern recruits will be able to survive and become elites in the 40k setting. Do they have time to perfect their skills/run away before one of the God tier 40k characters notices them etc. I don't suppose anyone would be willing to knock on the Culture/40k thread and ask them to add a new contender to the mix?

Let's not...versus threads always go down the tubes fast when people try to add new participants midway through.

[Jayngfet]

GLs don't use psychic powers directly, however IIRC Kama Tui was pretty sure that you'd need only two lanterns to force people to think a certain way. And the rings translate directly to a lantern's brain, so there's definitely some power there.

The rings are definitley capable of giving some kind of psychic power. It's not a thing that comes up terribly often but it's a thing they can do.

But yeah, the lantern ring gives a one off instant save from any lethal blow, even when "depowered", due to a small reserve charge.



(It's also a problem in 40k looking at space marines. Yes, a space marine can kill thousands. But he's in one place, he can't hold an inhabited planet.)

Which is the distinction. A Green Lantern, by design, is more or less equivalent to an entire fleet in terms of purpose and design. They're meant to go into hostile galaxies and pacify them if need be.

If we're talking lethal force with no guardian oversight a Green Lantern can decimate thousands of warships in an afternoon and then just go home. That's the point of them. Even on a scale of cosmic godliness while an individual GL may not do much the corps as an entity if very much capable of wrecking him up and down the universe, and the only reason he fought back effectivley was a weakness that no longer applies.

Remember, we're talking about enough force to be considered necessary to police a third of the entire universe. This being a universe that's full of marauding monsters and cosmic empires of it's own. The Tyranids and the Orks may be a big deal on galactic scale but to a thosuand people who can destroy and remake planets at will and are capable of traversing the galaxy in seconds they really aren't exactly a huge problem.

[The Glyphstone]

The rings are definitley capable of giving some kind of psychic power. It's not a thing that comes up terribly often but it's a thing they can do.

But yeah, the lantern ring gives a one off instant save from any lethal blow, even when "depowered", due to a small reserve charge.



Which is the distinction. A Green Lantern, by design, is more or less equivalent to an entire fleet in terms of purpose and design. They're meant to go into hostile galaxies and pacify them if need be.

If we're talking lethal force with no guardian oversight a Green Lantern can decimate thousands of warships in an afternoon and then just go home. That's the point of them. Even on a scale of cosmic godliness while an individual GL may not do much the corps as an entity if very much capable of wrecking him up and down the universe, and the only reason he fought back effectivley was a weakness that no longer applies.

Remember, we're talking about enough force to be considered necessary to police a third of the entire universe. This being a universe that's full of marauding monsters and cosmic empires of it's own. The Tyranids and the Orks may be a big deal on galactic scale but to a thosuand people who can destroy and remake planets at will and are capable of traversing the galaxy in seconds they really aren't exactly a huge problem.

Again, though - is this galaxy-crushing power and skill all just instantly imparted on someone the second they put a ring on their finger? If not - how long does it take to train a Lantern, and who is going to teach them these tricks? You're assuming 1,000 peak-strength Hal Jordans and Guy Gardners have been sent over, which is clearly not the case unless the rings bestow insta-experience in addition to insta-omnipotence.

[Jayngfet]

Again, though - is this galaxy-crushing power and skill all just instantly imparted on someone the second they put a ring on their finger? If not - how long does it take to train a Lantern, and who is going to teach them these tricks? You're assuming 1,000 peak-strength Hal Jordans and Guy Gardners have been sent over, which is clearly not the case unless the rings bestow insta-experience in addition to insta-omnipotence.

The thing is it doesn't take years. Hal Jordan even with no training became pretty good within a few months, and he's not much of an outlier. He doesn't wreck star destroyers daily because he can't so much as the most powerful regular opponent is always another cosmic weapon holder or a metahuman on that tier. Because even regular ol' non lantern rogues of his like Hector Hammond, who's a b-lister if there ever was one, is a far greater psychic than 90% of 40k in terms of reach and power(by which I mean he can quite literally pinpoint and dominate any number of minds from any point in the universe). Even then what Hal did wasn't even special when shown. He just went out after he had a free day and tested the exact limits of what he could do and tried to get creative within them.

As an arbitrary number, the hump you need to get over is basically like, a week or two, to handle most conflicts on that scale. The initial hump is quite literally measured in days in most cases and even in cases where training is mandatory it's never portrayed as being a months or years long exersize.

When I say planet breaking I am assuming an average, regular lantern. Their powerset has barely changed since the silver age since Hal makes it clear most of his pre-crisis stuff is still canon and lanterns can still do it, then he remade the universe with all that still canon again. Then flashpoint happened and the corps had zero changes. I'm not aware of what the reboot-of-the-week is this time but lanterns are pretty consistently immune to power scale resets is the main thing people forget. I mean crisis happened and Hal basically went "oh no, travelling ten thousand years into the future is slightly harder", then he did it anyway and regular lanterns still had that power available.

If we're talking even one max power lantern it doesn't even become a contest. Hal or John or Kyle at the top of their game would just wave their hands and in the grim dark future the war would just end(and that's no exagerration. Kyle literally did end all war across the entire universe at one point.)

[The Glyphstone]

I'm not sure Kyle in his White Lantern stage counts as a solid data point, to be fair - Green Lanterns are one thing, but Whites are literally omnipotent.

[Jayngfet]

I'm referring to Ion Kyle. White Lantern kyle is a whole different thing.

[Mato]

I just want to revisit something.

Glyph's primary point is essentially this.

But the OP specifically called out 1,000 unnamed newbie recruits, fresh to their rings.Which is more closely linked to a more philosophical question of, if you give 1,000 untrained civilians guns, armor, tanks, and landmines all DNA encoded to only work in their hands can they beat unarmed experts. I'm sure much can be said on the topic of can skills overcome technology which is why I'm sure Glyph feels he needs to keep refuting things.

But here is what the OP actually said.

1,000 mostly fresh members of the Green Lantern Corps are trapped, along with the Guardians, out by Jericho Reach.And while this is a little subjective. - You can interpret things as 1,000 sophomores or 980 freshmen students & 10 doctorates with honors such as Hal & Kyle - But the fact remains that they are not minutes old corp members and the guardian provided leadership, training, knowledge, and last resort meddling, are not absent.

[The Glyphstone]

Not really the point I was countering at all, I was just objecting to the general idea that all 1,000 unnamed recruits will near-instantly be able to obtain the level of skill and mastery that named comic-star protagonists have achieved over years of occasionally bumpy continuity. People like Hal and Guy are explicitly exceptional examples of their Corps, and I don't see it being realistic for them to be used as the baseline for things like power feats or learning curves.

There's a very good reason I keep bringing up the Green Lantern Movie, as generally awful as it was; the sort of simple, blunt-instrument constructs that Hal creates there are what I see a group of newbie lanterns being prone to. They've obviously been taught how to use their rings and conjure constructs/shields/etc., but they lack the experience and mentor-expertise of figuring out the real shiny tricks and advanced techniques, having to fall back on trial and error and instinct/reflex. And the question if if they can survive long enough in the unrelentingly hostile setting they've entered to work out those tricks and live up to their gamebreaking potential is a far more interesting one than defaulting to instant roflstomp. A one-sided curbstomp does not make for interesting debate or story potential, so if there is ambiguity in parameters, I'll take the interpretation that results in a closer matchup.

[Mato]

There's a very good reason I keep bringing up the Green Lantern Movie, as generally awful as it was; the sort of simple, blunt-instrument constructs that Hal creates there are what I see a group of newbie lanterns being prone to.Even after mastering Parallax & Ion, reforging his ring to be limitless, recreating the GLCs, wearing the red & orange rings, and temporally wielding a white ring, Hal's constructs are still often "plane shaped".

You mistakenly assume that to be a sign of weakness while simultaneously overlooking that in the very same GL movie Hal was an basically an untrained day old lantern that quit but still manged to beat the unbeatable entity of fear as proof of how easy it is to proficiently use one in a very short amount of time. That same guy was also able to within roughly ten minutes of using his ring in what little training he had was able to imagine the thousand complex parts it takes to build a fully functional minigun to shoot imaginary bullets rather than rapidly firing tiny lasers. I'm sure part of it is due to what the movie correctly lampshades, the mental hive mind access to the the sum of Oa's knowledge being directly downloaded into the user's brain on a want to know basis, but granted knowledge or not it happened.

[The Glyphstone]

Even after mastering Parallax & Ion, reforging his ring to be limitless, recreating the GLCs, wearing the red & orange rings, and temporally wielding a white ring, Hal's constructs are still often "plane shaped".

You mistakenly assume that to be a sign of weakness while simultaneously overlooking that in the very same GL movie Hal was an basically an untrained day old lantern that quit but still manged to beat the unbeatable entity of fear as proof of how easy it is to proficiently use one in a very short amount of time. That same guy was also able to within roughly ten minutes of using his ring in what little training he had was able to imagine the thousand complex parts it takes to build a fully functional minigun to shoot imaginary bullets rather than rapidly firing tiny lasers. I'm sure part of it is due to what the movie correctly lampshades, the mental hive mind access to the the sum of Oa's knowledge being directly downloaded into the user's brain on a want to know basis, but granted knowledge or not it happened.

You're still arguing against a strawman no one has put up. Weakness and inexperience are not the same thing; obviously if the 'unbeatable' entity of fear was beaten, it wasn't in fact unbeatable, you just needed enough bravery/willpower - funnily enough, that is the criteria by which the rings self-select. Miniguns, sledgehammers, and giant green fists...it has nothing to do with the specific shape, but the implication; they are simple, direct weapons, willpower used to render tools of brute force. Powerful, but not creative, and a tiny fraction of the real potential chaos a skilled Ringbearer could create.

But if you'd rather take the effortless curbstomp interpretation, you're fully welcome to do so, and there's not really anything left to be debating.

[Jayngfet]

Except of course, we see inexperienced lanterns doing more complex stuff all the time. If you have the willpower and energy all it really takes is thinking of it.

Hal being direct isn't because of inexperience so much as a specific accent to his character. He likes big green boxing gloves because he likes punching people. He likes punching people so much even with the ring he prefers to just walk up and deck a guy, because that's the kinda dude he is. John prefers to use complicated physical stuff because he's an architect who builds things, not because he never had the experience. Guy was the same way as an overly agressive macho type, for whatever reason canon wants.

Kyle had a ring and he just immeditatley was able to summon entire armies with the thing. He was also able to cure paralysis and crippling injuries in other people on his first try. He was able to do a bunch of stuff. Because Kyle is an artist who stays in the thick of the inner city and that's the kind of guy he is. Even Hal, back in the early days of comics when he was meant to be reasonably intelligent and analytic, was able to get creative simply because that's how he thoght of things, and the reason he didn't try to exploit insane hacks was because he had a moral belief that humanity should advance naturally without alteration from aliens or super powers or time travel.

Saying you imagine it a certain way because it makes for an interesting story does not make it a reflection of who or what is going on in the actual works described.

[Mato]

You're still arguing against a strawman no one has put up.And I feel your entire line of posts were built on a false premise with a generous amount of cherry picking assumptions out of a film and a very shifty stance. Like before you were assuming the type of constructs used is a display of weakness before you realized just how badly that was going to turn out for you so now you have shifted over to claiming their will power would be weak.

Except since the rings choose their wielders with an emphasis on needing a strong will. Even your assumed 1,000 members whom have never used a ring before all sit at the bottom of GL corp rankings that range all the way up to god-levels, they are still ranked within the top 7,200 most fearless and highest willpower creatures in an entire overpopulated universe where life is found on just about every single planet that happens to be floating around a sun.

So you got one thing right that can be agreed upon: you're entirely right on there not being a debate. Debating requires reasons and evidence so I feel what you are doing more closely resembles a discussion. And you might be going about it in an odd way but you are learning about the GLC, however long you find that useful is up to you.

[Foeofthelance]

I don't know, I have to agree with Glyphstone on this. In the comics, non-protagonist Green Lanterns die a lot. And not always to Superman or Parallax level foes, either. There are plenty of instances where average aliens armed with laser cannons pin down and even kill Lanterns. There's an entire issue dedicated to Killowog talking about how he took his first ever class of recruits out against some regular gun runners and managed to get half of them killed because he was in over his head.

Yes, the Rings are extremely capable and extremely powerful, but by themselves they are rather useless. All they care about is, "Are you brave/stupid enough to walk into a potentially lethal situation?" Yes, Hal likes generating boxing gloves, John pulls out complicated structures and machines, and Kyle can summon entire fictional armies, but that's not because of the rings; that's because Hal is a test pilot, John is a Marine turned architect, and Kyle was a comic book artist. The rings merely serve as a conduit for their already existing nature and training. Of Earth's five lanterns, two were military and one was a cop. The comic book artist was picked because there were pretty much no other options, and the last, Simon Baz, hasn't really had enough screen time.

What the rings don't do is give the bearer a greater sense of situational awareness, any particular combat training, or any of the other skills a person needs to make a half way decent soldier. They don't even give the wearer an idea of how much power they are using or wasting until its time for a recharge, and a ring telling its wearer that "10% charge remaining" is the equivalent of a machine gunner hearing their gun go "click". By the time they're out of power, its too late to ask back all the energy they've wasted. Its why, typically, the standard tactic for most Lanterns is a bubble shield and emerald power blasts. They're trying to conserve energy. Sure, the named Lanterns like to throw around big special effects and can slap down entire armies in one shot, but when they do they're either fighting against a very small number of opponents or deliberately trying to intimidate the army into surrendering without a fight. But those sort of shock and awe tactics don't mean much to races such as the Tyranids and Necrons, who will just ignore them, the Orks, who will just throw more bodies at the problem, and would have the exact opposite effect on a group like the Space Marines, who will see the general light show and damage done by the Lantern as proof of their allegiance with Chaos and therefore a reason to fight harder. They'll have better luck against the Guard, depending on the leadership in place, and the Tau, who would weigh such a confrontation against the greater good. Once you start getting into the Chaos demons, Titans, and other large scale figures you start getting into the sort of events that cause massive casualties and survival for new Lanterns goes way down.

[Jayngfet]

...this of course assumes that nobody in those thosuands has any experiences that would help make constructs.

The thing is whenever lanterns get any focus it's made clear the corps has enough diversity in recruitment that literally any profession can become one. That's kind of the point. Deciding of one thousand people no signifigant percentage of them will have any werewithal or imagination is just kind of being ridiculous.

The idea of lanterns dying en masse is pretty much an anachronism to anyone except Geoff Johns, and that only happens when you gather thousands of lanterns together against an opponent that can fight them on their own terms. Which won't happen because a lantern can punch through the hull of basically any ship out in space and their power is capable of shielding all but the most extreme attacks most 40k opponents can dish out. It doesn't matter how Orks or Tyrannids react, because a lanterns raw power is always going to overpower any force that can be thrown at them. Likewise given the actual observable forces blocked a lantern is in no danger from a space marine or ultramarine simply because their weapons can't penetrate a lantern shield.

That's just how it goes. We are talking about a weapon meant to pacify forces several times the scale of what's actually being discussed and even a rookie can manage the speed, power, and defense, to take on most battles with ease. This is demonstrable fact that's been displayed several times.

[lord_khaine]

I am getting more and more convinced that only the most extreme or exotic weapons of the 40k universe is going to affect the lanterns at all, things like psychic attacks, titan/ship based shooting or D-weapons.
And even of those the ring will still protect its wearer partly. I mean, we have seen fairly new lanterns take at least a few hits from Superman class foes, i honestly think that will put them above even Greater Demons in term of raw power.
Where to make things even more troublesome for whoever is trying to fight them, then said power is also contained in so little a spot that its hard to focus on it.

On the other hand i do also think it will be hard for them to make to much of an impact, in a galaxy thats gone crazy with war. I mean all of the biggest factions absolutely hate each other with burning intensiy, and you cant talk any reason with them either. Its not like Humans, chaos, orks or Tyranids even have got a singel central leader you can smack around a little and intimidate to play nice with the other kids in the sandbox.

Another topic i think has been ignored though, is what the lanterns would do. It is kinda unlikely even 1 of them is a human, and so they would be highly unlikely to feel anything in particular for humanity. As such to the eyes of an outsider they would be as bad or worse than orks, and a lantern would just as likely defend an ork world from human invaders, as a human world from ork invaders. But the lanterns would certainly not start conquering planets, thats not what they do.
From what i know of them, then they would most likely settle on defending the smaller unnamed factions from the bigger bullies, perhaps spread out in minor groups to settle somewhere partly civilised, and of course defend anyone against tyranid spliter fleets.

[Jayngfet]

Humans and human-lite's are kind of common in the DCU. I mean you have Rannians, Kryptonians, Malthusians, ect. ect. While they aren't from earth, they're near enough on a physical and genetic level that outside of being hit with crazy radiation or something they're basically interchangable.

While they may not conquer planets, conquer and liberate are kinda close in practice and liberating planets is kind of their day job. A lantern can knock out an entire planets military in a couple of days pretty solidly if there's some kind of space dictator or invading force and then just move on. While they couldn't instantly do anything even if two thirds of them die off that's still an average of like, a thousand planets a week unless they get mired in something big. Even if only ten percent of them live that's still easily hundreds of planets a year simply because their travel time is as such they can be anywhere in the galaxy within minutes or seconds without needing the warp.

[bluntpencil]

Imperial Fists turn up.

Imperium wins, because of the colour yellow.

End.

[The Glyphstone]

Didn't the yellow-weakness thing get removed/cured like two Crisis Crossover events ago? Or did they bring it back in nu52?

[bluntpencil]

No idea! I was mostly joking.

[Forum Explorer]

I am getting more and more convinced that only the most extreme or exotic weapons of the 40k universe is going to affect the lanterns at all, things like psychic attacks, titan/ship based shooting or D-weapons.
And even of those the ring will still protect its wearer partly. I mean, we have seen fairly new lanterns take at least a few hits from Superman class foes, i honestly think that will put them above even Greater Demons in term of raw power.
Where to make things even more troublesome for whoever is trying to fight them, then said power is also contained in so little a spot that its hard to focus on it.

Another topic i think has been ignored though, is what the lanterns would do. It is kinda unlikely even 1 of them is a human, and so they would be highly unlikely to feel anything in particular for humanity. As such to the eyes of an outsider they would be as bad or worse than orks, and a lantern would just as likely defend an ork world from human invaders, as a human world from ork invaders. But the lanterns would certainly not start conquering planets, thats not what they do.
From what i know of them, then they would most likely settle on defending the smaller unnamed factions from the bigger bullies, perhaps spread out in minor groups to settle somewhere partly civilised, and of course defend anyone against tyranid spliter fleets.

There are a lot of exotic weapons out there too. Nurgle plagues, special Assassin bullets, time traps, and more. But I think the biggest threat to them would be Tyranids. I don't know what their limits on energy is, but they do have one, and they simply might run out of energy trying to take down a Hive Fleet on their own. Plague and airborn poisons for the exotic weapon factor, combined with there simply being trillions or more of enemies to kill.

But yeah, I don't think they'd really stick with, or aim to help the Imperium all that much. Most of the aren't human, and that'd make them kill on site for the average civilian. I don't know, maybe they'd go help the Tau.


Humans and human-lite's are kind of common in the DCU. I mean you have Rannians, Kryptonians, Malthusians, ect. ect. While they aren't from earth, they're near enough on a physical and genetic level that outside of being hit with crazy radiation or something they're basically interchangable.

While they may not conquer planets, conquer and liberate are kinda close in practice and liberating planets is kind of their day job. A lantern can knock out an entire planets military in a couple of days pretty solidly if there's some kind of space dictator or invading force and then just move on. While they couldn't instantly do anything even if two thirds of them die off that's still an average of like, a thousand planets a week unless they get mired in something big. Even if only ten percent of them live that's still easily hundreds of planets a year simply because their travel time is as such they can be anywhere in the galaxy within minutes or seconds without needing the warp.

Well Eldar, who are basically elves, are too alien. I don't know much about DC (so I have no idea what any of those races look like except Kryptonians), but that's the level of xenophobia in the universe. Also even being accepting of other aliens is heresy without permission.

Sure, but that's kinda pointless. Or rather, it'd just leave them vulnerable to invasion from outside forces. If there isn't a rebellion going on, they'd just rebuild and continue on as they were.

[Jayngfet]

Isn't the average human not even aware of aliens or did I miss something? I mean the imperium is kind of repressive with multiple groups restricting information and giving propaganda.

Most citizens will go "thanks, weird green dude!" and that'll be it. If a soldier wants to take a gun and try to shoot him, he's usually not getting anywhere.

[Forum Explorer]

Isn't the average human not even aware of aliens or did I miss something? I mean the imperium is kind of repressive with multiple groups restricting information and giving propaganda.

Most citizens will go "thanks, weird green dude!" and that'll be it. If a soldier wants to take a gun and try to shoot him, he's usually not getting anywhere.

In 40K, all humans are aware of aliens, barring primitive worlds. They know aliens as the evil enemy, who uses nefarious tricks and corrupt technology to trick and kill humans, preventing them from achieving their destiny of dominance over the galaxy. No matter how benign an alien might appear, you must eliminate and purge them of their evil before they betray you.

So yeah, the xenophobia is pretty, ummm, baseline. (There's a better word for it, but I don't know it). It's part of the common culture across the Imperium.

Now there is a lot of misinformation and lies about aliens across the Imperium, usually to make them look more evil, or less of a threat. But the existence of aliens is widely known and hated. Mutants similarly get a really hard time, where at best they'll get to live as slave labor.

[The Glyphstone]

Not to mention the psyker-phobia also indemic to the culture, every single trigger for which would be tripped by a Green Lantern using their ring*. They can conquer a planet pretty effortlessly, it seems, but keeping it conquered/pacified is a whole different story; unless the Lantern is willing to resort to terror-tactics, which doesn't feel in-character for the GLC as they're been presented here (Sinestro is an obvious outlier, which is why he switched Corps), the planet they 'liberate' will go right back to business as usual once they move on. Especially for the non-human/human-analogue Lanterns; the only thing worse than both an alien or a psyker is an alien psyker.

*and that is assuming whatever 5th-dimensional entity responsible for the mess in the first place doesn't decide that the psychoactive nature of the rings makes using them count as psychic activity. Very unlikely, but not impossible, as the Eldar also possess psychically resonant technology. That just ends in FUN.

[Coidzor]

Does the psychic tech of the Eldar and Dark Eldar actually end in !!!FUN!!!?

It seems like it's stable and boring enough to use in Cormorragh without having Slaanesh rip hir way into the Webway and omnom them, after all.

[lord_khaine]

Humans and human-lite's are kind of common in the DCU. I mean you have Rannians, Kryptonians, Malthusians, ect. ect. While they aren't from earth, they're near enough on a physical and genetic level that outside of being hit with crazy radiation or something they're basically interchangable.

I would say kryptonians dont count as they are more or less extinct. And while we have a lot of humanoid aliens then i think the initial point will still stand. It will not be humans, they will not feel any reason for siding with the emperium, instead most likely getting in their way each time they try to bomb some poor xenos world.


While they may not conquer planets, conquer and liberate are kinda close in practice and liberating planets is kind of their day job. A lantern can knock out an entire planets military in a couple of days pretty solidly if there's some kind of space dictator or invading force and then just move on. While they couldn't instantly do anything even if two thirds of them die off that's still an average of like, a thousand planets a week unless they get mired in something big. Even if only ten percent of them live that's still easily hundreds of planets a year simply because their travel time is as such they can be anywhere in the galaxy within minutes or seconds without needing the warp.

Its just limited how many planets there are to liberate. I dont think a lantern would try and knock down the legitimate goverment, or even make a habbit of trying to topple different galatic empires. What they do is mainly enforcing the status q. What they would do is put a serious cramp in the side of anyone wishing to expand their influence though anything but negotiation.

Also, the thing that is actually going to limit the lanterns most of all in liberating a thousand worlds a week, even if there were enough to liberate, is that they is in a foreign galaxy. They dont know where anything is, and space is BIG.


There are a lot of exotic weapons out there too. Nurgle plagues, special Assassin bullets, time traps, and more. But I think the biggest threat to them would be Tyranids. I don't know what their limits on energy is, but they do have one, and they simply might run out of energy trying to take down a Hive Fleet on their own. Plague and airborn poisons for the exotic weapon factor, combined with there simply being trillions or more of enemies to kill.

But yeah, I don't think they'd really stick with, or aim to help the Imperium all that much. Most of the aren't human, and that'd make them kill on site for the average civilian. I don't know, maybe they'd go help the Tau.

Is not sure a nurgle plague could go though the active plasma shield a GL got running when active, and i doubt assasin bullets would do much either. When fighting a Lantern you kinda need to think in titan killing weapons at the very least.
(based on them tanking ship-based weapons).

Actively i suspect they would not help Tau to much, them being pretty expansionist. They would certainly try to broker a peace between them and the imperium though. Even if it meant enforcing a neutral zone.


Does the psychic tech of the Eldar and Dark Eldar actually end in !!!FUN!!!?

It seems like it's stable and boring enough to use in Cormorragh without having Slaanesh rip hir way into the Webway and omnom them, after all.

Its only the Eldars who use psychic technology, Dark Eldars are not psychic.
And Eldar technology actually often end in a lot of fun, but for the user. And thats because its extremely effective, and very reliable.

[GAZ]

The Lantern Corps has no need to take or hold worlds like a 40k army. Their rings can provide air, water, nutrients, etc on deployment and they can always return to Oa if they need a place to stretch their legs or regroup with their back to a wall. Their transport and communication ability is vastly superior to any of the 40k factions and completely bypasses the warp. The GLC can make FTL guerrilla strikes against any hostile armadas and try to work diplomatically with any reasonable-ish elements of the non-omnicidal races. The Guardians of the Universe and their creations have brought order out a chaotic universe before. I think they can do it again.

[Tvtyrant]

How would the GLs prevent populations from falling to chaos? In the Great Crusade almost half of mankind was involved in some form of chaos worship, especially Slaneesh.

[Forum Explorer]

Does the psychic tech of the Eldar and Dark Eldar actually end in !!!FUN!!!?

It seems like it's stable and boring enough to use in Cormorragh without having Slaanesh rip hir way into the Webway and omnom them, after all.

Dark Eldar don't have any psychic tech, for the exact reason of preventing fun. Eldar tech works just fine though it is specificaly designed to prevent Slaanesh from being able to break through.




Is not sure a nurgle plague could go though the active plasma shield a GL got running when active, and i doubt assasin bullets would do much either. When fighting a Lantern you kinda need to think in titan killing weapons at the very least.
(based on them tanking ship-based weapons).

Actively i suspect they would not help Tau to much, them being pretty expansionist. They would certainly try to broker a peace between them and the imperium though. Even if it meant enforcing a neutral zone.



I don't see why it wouldn't, if air can get through. Assassin bullets (some of them anyways) can bypass shields effortlessly, even things like Void Shields (which are multidimensional IIRC)

Could they? It's a really big area, and it's not like either fleet is in normal space for long when they are flying.



The Lantern Corps has no need to take or hold worlds like a 40k army. Their rings can provide air, water, nutrients, etc on deployment and they can always return to Oa if they need a place to stretch their legs or regroup with their back to a wall. Their transport and communication ability is vastly superior to any of the 40k factions and completely bypasses the warp. The GLC can make FTL guerrilla strikes against any hostile armadas and try to work diplomatically with any reasonable-ish elements of the non-omnicidal races. The Guardians of the Universe and their creations have brought order out a chaotic universe before. I think they can do it again.

Oa didn't come with them. Just the 1000 newbies. And as far as I know, there are more then 1000 members in the GLC.

[Coidzor]

What I've seen is that they don't psychically grow things or use psychic powers as fireworks, but they still use some psychic devices.

Is Lexicanum known for lying out its ass? It's seemed to be pretty reliable when it's come up.

[The Glyphstone]

Lexicanum is honestly about as reliable as you can get when it comes to 40K fluff, with how inconsistent 40K canon can be at the best of times. Stuff with 'Citation needed' flags are the only iffy bits, and even then they aren't necessarily wrong.

As far as the Eldar, they grow pretty much everything out of Wraithbone (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wraithbone), a psychically reactive 'stuff' that responds to a Bonesinger when being formed into whatever it's needed to be, then responds to the psychic commands of any Eldar afterwards to actually do things like a regular machine would.

[Mato]

Oa didn't come with them. Just the 1000 newbies.And the Guardians, whom are lived as long as the universe existed and can wield the power of will without needing a ring.

I'm sure they can find a new location to set up, like maybe in the middle of a star or a black hole. After all, they are generally more powerful than all none-human Lanterns to begin with, anything a Corp member can do they can do better unless it comes down to making the right moral choice. :smallwink:

Also in the DC universe there is a horde of hivemind beings that do in fact run around taking over worlds for profit. The GLC even came to a truce when neither side could win so we know the upper limit too. And what I speak of are the Scarabs. You may know some about them through the JL Cyborg stand in the Blue Beetle. They are symbionts with highly advanced technology. They have all the ring-like powers, energy shields, enhanced strength/agility, healing, energy absorption, constructs, highly detailed scans, and so on. They also have temporal sensing abilities and are highly resistant to magic. But their crowning point is they have a built in adaptability which allows them to quickly specialize their defenses against their enemies and calibrate them selves to strike their opponent's weaknesses. But they really are a massive horde, a couple thousand of them even manged to best twenty or so Blue Lanterns (which cannot use constructs or office beams without a green lantern nearby) for a bit in one of their New 52 Corp comics. I feel they would be a perfect stand in for the Imperium, if you know, every single one of them was a superhero to begin with instead of a fanatic nationalist whose only real power is suicidal horde zerging. :smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

And the Guardians, whom are lived as long as the universe existed and can wield the power of will without needing a ring.

I'm sure they can find a new location to set up, like maybe in the middle of a star or a black hole. After all, they are generally more powerful than all none-human Lanterns to begin with, anything a Corp member can do they can do better unless it comes down to making the right moral choice. :smallwink:

OP clarifiedretconned that the Guardians aren't present, btw.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20728527&postcount=18

[Mato]

OP clarifiedretconned that the Guardians aren't present, btw.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20728527&postcount=18I feel like I should make a joke about how the thread's retcon only makes it more closely match DC given all of their reboots and retcons.

[The Glyphstone]

Though now that we've more or less settled on using the high-end Lantern feats, as opposed to stuff like the aforementioned 'Kilwog gets half his squad murdered by dudes with laser cannons' Redshirting that nameless non-protagonists get subjected to, are either of the two secondary scenarios I proposed earlier plausible in the interests of !!FUN!!?


1)Best-case scenario, they're successful and retain their idealism in victory. No Chaos corruption, no successful counterattacks, Green Lantern Corps wins and we all go home to eat pie.

2)Alternatively, if they are successful in their initial conquests, they could become proud and ambitious, now intent on bringing their 'enlightened' philosophy to the entire galaxy, not just one small corner of it - to force the people of the Imperium to become more tolerant and accepting. By letting Pride and Ambition start to rule their intent and decisions, they grow closer to Slaanesh. The more they roflstomp their opposition, and the more dismissive they become of the various enemies, the easier it'll be for the Prince of Excess to worm its way into their hearts. This sort of corruption would be more harmful short-term but less dangerous long-term, as obviously off-the-rails Lanterns would be subject to policing by their brethren, but it'd still reduce the total population and possibly result in rogue Rings wandering off to find new hosts.

3)Alt-alternately, they are similarly successful, but instead of succumbing to pride or arrogance (cause they are heroes, who usually don't go for flaws like that), they end up feeling frustrated. They want to do good, but the planets they are 'liberating' from their oppressive and tyrannical rulers are so heavily indoctrinated that they don't want to be liberated. Any time a Lantern turns his back on a planet he/she/it has pacified by virtue of overwhelming force, it's back to business as usual. The more they kill in self-defense, the more gets thrown at them the next time, and every so often a planet might just get blown the hell up. Their efforts accomplish nothing, or actively make the situation worse, which goes against their entire ethos, and all they want is for this oppressively murderous status quo to Change. Conveniently, there's a being hanging around who is all about Change, is extremely good at trickery and deception, and for good measure is dynamically opposed to a god who embodies Despair, the antithesis of everything the Lanterns stand for. Short-term harmless, long-term potentially devastating to everyone.

[lord_khaine]

I don't see why it wouldn't, if air can get through. Assassin bullets (some of them anyways) can bypass shields effortlessly, even things like Void Shields (which are multidimensional IIRC)

Could they? It's a really big area, and it's not like either fleet is in normal space for long when they are flying.

I would first like to state that assasin bullets are really stupid from tabletop, since they bypass things like dodges or a precognitive ability to get out of the way.
But funny enough then void shields are one of the things that they dont automatically bypass, they need to penetrate them like regular heavy weapons.
As for air, that cant get though the plasma screen though, lanterns can breathe in space because of it.

Hmm.. yeah intercepting fleets as the bounce in and out of material space might be little hard, but they would just need to cripple said ships when they warp out before a planet instead. From 40k campagins we do know that those fights tend to take a very long time, weeks or months.


Though now that we've more or less settled on using the high-end Lantern feats, as opposed to stuff like the aforementioned 'Kilwog gets half his squad murdered by dudes with laser cannons' Redshirting that nameless non-protagonists get subjected to, are either of the two secondary scenarios I proposed earlier plausible in the interests of !!FUN!!?

Alternatively i would suggest

4) The lanterns are moderatly succesful in doing what they actually are meant to, and manages to preserve several minor races from getting exterminated by humans, orks, necrons or tyranid, leaving them hailed as heroes by everyone who are not large enough to have a codex in the setting.

[AMFV]

The chief problem is that there are too many incarnations of both franchises. There's an era of GLs where they can be beaten by painting ships yellow, and there's eras where they can defeat enemies made out of yellow. So power levels vary widely depending on era. I think (although I'm not as intimately familiar) that the same holds true in 40k. Depending on the author, and their fandom, characters and factions powers vary widely.

[Mato]

Actually no matter the era painting something yellow doesn't mean something auto wins.

It's a fairly common misconception is that painting stuff yellow gives it total immunity from back when the Silver Age when everything was insane. But even in the same age the weakness only prevented direct interaction from constructs and didn't automatically bypass none direct means, such as using the ring to augment your self and simply punching it. And there really isn't a rule that prevents a Green Lantern from picking up and using his enemies weapons or piloting their ships, the ring just happens to be superior to generally every other option. So if you want to argue the Imperium is insightful enough to spray paint everything yellow, what's your counter to the GLC using Imperium weapons & ships except every tenth round is a blue paintball? A giant elephant in the room is the Imperium cannot use a green ring against the rules even if one of them happened to be chosen as a new wielder, but any Imperium technology is fair game.

Also it's not even total immunity to begin with, by accepting fear a Green Lantern could affect anything yellow anyway. This is because yellow weakness technically has little to do with the color but it has everything to do with Parallax being trapped in the green central battery. While imprisoned in the battery Parallax can corrupt the rings to extend will's weakness against fear to include fear's emotional spectrum color. And I don't recall anyone saying Parallax came along for the ride, through it would make a much more interesting comic style story; GLC Imperium vs Sinestro's Daemon Corps. Plus it'd keep the GLC from curb stomping the 40k universe.

[AMFV]

Actually no matter the era painting something yellow doesn't mean something auto wins.

It's a fairly common misconception is that painting stuff yellow gives it total immunity from back when the Silver Age when everything was insane. But even in the same age the weakness only prevented direct interaction from constructs and didn't automatically bypass none direct means, such as using the ring to augment your self and simply punching it. And there really isn't a rule that prevents a Green Lantern from picking up and using his enemies weapons or piloting their ships, the ring just happens to be superior to generally every other option. So if you want to argue the Imperium is insightful enough to spray paint everything yellow, what's your counter to the GLC using Imperium weapons & ships except every tenth round is a blue paintball? A giant elephant in the room is the Imperium cannot use a green ring against the rules even if one of them happened to be chosen as a new wielder, but any Imperium technology is fair game.

Also it's not even total immunity to begin with, by accepting fear a Green Lantern could affect anything yellow anyway. This is because yellow weakness technically has little to do with the color but it has everything to do with Parallax being trapped in the green central battery. While imprisoned in the battery Parallax can corrupt the rings to extend will's weakness against fear to include fear's emotional spectrum color. And I don't recall anyone saying Parallax came along for the ride, through it would make a much more interesting comic style story; GLC Imperium vs Sinestro's Daemon Corps. Plus it'd keep the GLC from curb stomping the 40k universe.

My point was that power levels varied widely. The silver age GL Corps was very different than the one in the 90s. Or the one in the new 52. Without knowing which set you're dealing with figuring out the end state is likely impossible.

[Mato]

My point was that power levels varied widely. The silver age GL Corps was very different than the one in the 90s. Or the one in the new 52. Without knowing which set you're dealing with figuring out the end state is likely impossible.To quote Jayngfet on the topic.

When I say planet breaking I am assuming an average, regular lantern. Their powerset has barely changed since the silver age since Hal makes it clear most of his pre-crisis stuff is still canon and lanterns can still do it, then he remade the universe with all that still canon again. Then flashpoint happened and the corps had zero changes. I'm not aware of what the reboot-of-the-week is this time but lanterns are pretty consistently immune to power scale resets is the main thing people forget. I mean crisis happened and Hal basically went "oh no, travelling ten thousand years into the future is slightly harder", then he did it anyway and regular lanterns still had that power available.

I'm no expert on the Silver Age but it's a given that things were silly and overpowered back then, heroes were capable of doing whatever half contrived plot was thought of. And that really isn't much weaker than the newer GLC, John Stewart's imagination and will exceeds his ring's capabilities, Alan Scott once lived in his own metropolis sized space station, and Hal moved & held a couple hundred black holes. Power feats for the GLC corps are pretty absurd which is why Glyphstone keeps reminding everyone it's 1,000 near-newbies not named humans :p

[The Glyphstone]

And apparently even rank newbies are still capable of all the aforementioned galaxy-crushing feats, which is why I'm now more interested in the consequences of their rampage than whether it's possible in the first place.

[Coidzor]

To figure out the consequences, we have to figure out what they want and what their goals would be and how much splitting up they'd do upon finding themselves in a completely foreign universe.

Would they prioritize figuring out how to go home above all else? How would they go about figuring out where they are if there's no planet nearby with even a partial map of the galaxy? How able are they to gather information and lore and research?

Would they want to settle in and do their Lanterny thing by trying to end conflicts in that galaxy? Would having to exterminate the Orks and Tyranids once they found out about them have an effect on morale? Would they actually be able to contain them instead of having to exterminate them?

Would Chaos deeply alarm them and lead to them dropping everything to try to make areas like the Eye of Terror go away? If so, do they have anything in their arsenal other than destroying the contents of the Eye of Terror and family and possibly the area of warp-reality overlap or at least rolling it up inside of a giant green rug and tossing it outside of the galaxy? Since they probably have the Willpower that most of the Eye of Terror containment/destruction squad wouldn't go completely insane, what sort of effects from destroying the ships and planets in there and then rolling up a fairly large section of the galaxy up in a giant green carpet would we have to expect those involved to experience? Would they even have to enter it to do all of that?

Could they figure out what was going on with Chaos before some of them had started listening to the Dark Gods whispering in the backs of their minds? Are Green Lanterns capable of telling the Chaos Gods to take a hike out of their brainmeats or brainmeat equivalents? How would they find out about Chaos? Would it be from encountering chaos cultists in the void? On chaos-controlled planets? Encountering a mother-loving daemon world? Bumping into some Eldar who actually have the miraculous ability to give something approaching a straight answer?

Could a Green Lantern get a straight answer out of an Eldar? Would the Dark Eldar just see the Green Lanterns and stay well away from getting their attention? Could the Green Lanterns clue in on the Dark Eldar's existence anyway? Would taking out Comorragh destroy the Webway?

[The Glyphstone]

I dunno about the rest of it, but taking out Commoraugh would basically require destroying the Webway in the first place - it's not so much one concrete location as a near-infinite string of interconnected bubbles and pocket realms in the Webway, spread out all over the place. Destroying the entire city would do so much damage in the process that the Webway itself would be functionally obliterated.

[Eldan]

Yes. Look at this map from the Harlequin codex.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Webway?file=Eldar_Galaxy_Map.png
Commoragh is everywhere in the galaxy.

[Mato]

To figure out the consequences, we have to figure out what they want and what their goals would be and how much splitting up they'd do upon finding themselves in a completely foreign universe.Probably return home, they have a duty to guard their sector. Not run around in an alternative universe :smallwink:

And I feel you can just go back to their rules. The original ten boil down to a combination of respecting the chain of command, noninterference, limited to reasonable force, and the main operating agenda of protecting life and liberty. The newer laws back when Hal rebuilt things are worded to be looser than before (like a gl can murder an unaware & disarmed enemy rather than being limited to reasonable force) but not all of them have been revealed and it's safe to say that the core ideology is still the same.

The GLC wouldn't actually try to take over the Imperium. They would prevent them from harming anyone that moves away to live free and...

The GL, being an intergalactic police force, teams up with the Imperium against the clearly evil daemons.And if the Imperium has a problem with that, well they won't like the outcome.

[Whoracle]

I haven't kept up with the whole GL lore, but if the "weak to yellow" problem is still a thing, I'd guess the fire eagle or skull crusher SM chapters will have a field day, as would Iyanden eldar.

That's all I have to contribute, I'll show myself out.

[The Glyphstone]

And if the Imperium has a problem with that, well they won't like the outcome.

Would they someone try and force the Imperium to accept their help? The Imperium isn't going to somehow stop them from carrying on their own independent anti-demon campaign, but they're not going to welcome any sort of active cooperation (not that anything the Imperium has to offer would materially improve the Lanterns' combat ability). The enemy of my enemy is not my friend - he is my enemy's enemy, no more and no less, taken up to 11 like everything else.

[Kantaki]

Would they someone try and force the Imperium to accept their help? The Imperium isn't going to somehow stop them from carrying on their own independent anti-demon campaign, but they're not going to welcome any sort of active cooperation (not that anything the Imperium has to offer would materially improve the Lanterns' combat ability). The enemy of my enemy is not my friend - he is my enemy's enemy, no more and no less, taken up to 11 like everything else.

I'm not sure. That might be how the Lanterns see it, but wouldn't the Imperium's philosophy be "the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy"? From all I have heard about them they aren't they types who ignore a powerful group of aliens close to them.
Okay, that might be because of the way the 40K is usually presented, but leaving the Lanterns alone seems way to reasonable for these guys.

I'm not sure how the Lanterns would fare in this verse, but in the long run it would most likely end badly for everyone involved.

[Mato]

Would they someone try and force the Imperium to accept their help?I'm not sure. I've never read any Imperium related books but they are constantly portrayed as severe fanatics.

I feel it comes down to that one topic we don't like to talk about: Is the Imperium morally good or just labeled good. Like if they are the kind of extremists to kill an innocent because they think being around a deamon automatically makes them evil or execute people that are refuse to fight it would be inevitable that the GLC would come into conflict with them, and being what they are the Imperium would have a zero tolerance for interference and oppose leading to open conflict. But they are woefully underpowered and given their form of FTL they could never really hunt any underground railroading down. Sooner or later, and in one form or another, the Imperium will concede.

Unquestionably the GLC would oppose the daemons. They would not go so far as hunt them to extinction, the GLC is pretty merciful there so they can keep recycling old villains of course. But unless the daemons reached out to the GLC for a surrender they probably would turn a blind eye to the Imperium finishing them off.

Perhaps the biggest question is would the fanaticism even persist if the GLC was introduced? From what I understand of the 40k universe, no one has any hope. They believe, based on psychic visions, everyone goes to the chaos void when they die and daemons always return after being killed. They are locked into an eternal fight with no hope of salvation, fanaticism is nothing more than a coping mechanism and a reason to deny the inevitable. The GLC wield part of the light of life and are no strangers to cross universe exploration or beating the antilife death incarnates, they would bring hope to a universe that doesn't know what that is.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm not sure. I've never read any Imperium related books but they are constantly portrayed as severe fanatics.

I feel it comes down to that one topic we don't like to talk about: Is the Imperium morally good or just labeled good. Like if they are the kind of extremists to kill an innocent because they think being around a deamon automatically makes them evil or execute people that are refuse to fight it would be inevitable that the GLC would come into conflict with them, and being what they are the Imperium would have a zero tolerance for interference and oppose leading to open conflict. But they are woefully underpowered and given their form of FTL they could never really hunt any underground railroading down. Sooner or later, and in one form or another, the Imperium will concede.

Unquestionably the GLC would oppose the daemons. They would not go so far as hunt them to extinction, the GLC is pretty merciful there so they can keep recycling old villains of course. But unless the daemons reached out to the GLC for a surrender they probably would turn a blind eye to the Imperium finishing them off.

The Imperium is, ultimately, Necessary Evil for the most part. They do execute innocents for having been exposed to or seeing a demon - but since the act of merely seeing a demon is potentially corrupting and gives the powers of Chaos a subtle hook in, they're not wrong to be doing so. The entire universe is like that; the horrible things are still horrible, but the alternatives are even more horrible.

As for fighting demons - at least in the material universe, there's no question that GLs are superior. It'd be pretty trivial for them to set up a containment perimeter across the Cadian Gate and around the Maelstrom, and prevent the mortal servants of Chaos from ever mounting a serious organized threat to humanity again. Individual summoned demons are likewise ring-bait, since being material means they have to obey the relevant rules.

In the Warp or places like the Eye, though, it gets extremely fuzzy because the Warp doesn't even pretend to obey the laws of physics - it's a realm of pure sheer madness that only the greatest of wills can even survive, let alone fight in. GLs qualify for that on all fronts - I'd figure their rings could generate a Gellar Field without any effort - but then they are fighting the natives on their own territory, natives whose innate nature requires them to be the equivalent of master-grade Lanterns within their home realm simply to survive the hostility of their own environment, and of whom there are a literally infinite supply. They might be able to mount a successful campaign, but the costs would be murderous compared to just practicing containment and picking off individual demons whenever they manifested to cause mischief/death and destruction. Plus, there's the actual Chaos Gods to consider weighing in once any assault progressed far enough, who can operate at full strength within the Warp and are beings of cosmic abstract principles. Ion Hal or Parallax could go toe-to-toe with the Gods directly in the Warp, and probably win because protagonist power, but anyone less than that trying to challenge them on their own turf is in trouble.




Perhaps the biggest question is would the fanaticism even persist if the GLC was introduced? From what I understand of the 40k universe, no one has any hope. They believe, based on psychic visions, everyone goes to the chaos void when they die and daemons always return after being killed. They are locked into an eternal fight with no hope of salvation, fanaticism is nothing more than a coping mechanism and a reason to deny the inevitable. The GLC wield part of the light of life and are no strangers to cross universe exploration or beating the antilife death incarnates, they would bring hope to a universe that doesn't know what that is.

An ultimately that gets into a question of meta-thematics. For a very similar reason, every so often someone gets the idea of pitting stuff like Tenga Toppa Gurren Laggan against 40K., and you run into problems above and beyond the question of who can punch who in the face (which isnt really a question at all). It's part of 40K's underlying core thematics that there is no ultimate victory, only small Pyrrhic victories at best, and the stronger and harder you strive to make a fundamental difference for good, the bigger and more tragic your ultimate fall is going to be. No one is allowed to win, not even evil, because grim darkness only war yadda yah. At the meta-thematic level, you end up with a problem of chicken and egg - can the GLC's idealism and innate goodness endure a universe whose very laws of physics and metaphysics, let alone morality and culture, are all hellbent on grinding it out of them? Alternatively, can 40K's grimdark hopelessness survive in the face of a source of potential for genuine fundamental improvement? Hope, after all, is literally Evil here - it's part of the portfolio of Tzeentch, and empowers him.

[Lord Raziere]

On Meta-Thematics:
Well when your talking about that, I'd say it comes down to the message you want to send: I'd personally lean towards TTGL winning just to send a positive message which I think is more important to communicate. Everyone already knows how bleak and depressing the world can be, but what people really need is hope to get through it. Sure maybe hope alone doesn't solve everything, but I doubt anyone ever solved anything WITHOUT hope. A person without hope has already given up and isn't doing anything to win after all. Even the Imperium believes in the God-Emperor, after all.

[The Glyphstone]

On Meta-Thematics:
Well when your talking about that, I'd say it comes down to the message you want to send.



Basically yeah. When two fundamentally incompatible settings get mashed together because 'its a cool fight', you have to get at least a bit editorial to have an answer, and that's hard to do when people have different opinions.

The Imperium runs on Faith, not Hope. They blindly trust that everything will work out eventually, because the Emperor is all-powerful even if their individual meaningless lives don't seem any different.

[Jayngfet]

Of course the biggest comparison is how lanterns handle crazy madness inducing monsters. The problem is based on precedent, they don't. That's not to say they don't handle them well, it's just that such things by definition live in spaces lanterns rarely travel even if they know how. The ring allows instant dimensional travel, so even though the DCU has it's own incarnations of "the warp", it's just an area most lanterns aren't aware of unless a monster of the week pops out. That realm is usually for wizards or mad scientists with less ridiculous tech to deal with. Even if you're Hal Jordan who's on Earth, a planet that's especially crazy and basically a galaxies worth of BS on it's own, you usually hand that kind of problem off to a specialist.

I mean fundamentally, the DCU has it's own analogues to the warp and the chaos gods and daemons and they're suitably powerful, but no green lantern ever actually fights them because maybe three people outside of earth in the corps would even be aware of them in any sense as a potential, and maybe one of them would have experience as a specialist.

But on that front the GLC doesn't need the imperium of man to side with them. They need a proportionatley small number of them to do so. All they really need to do is defend one planet from a serious enough offensive, or one planet enough times, then that's a planet likley to take their side. One planet is enough of a start.

Though I doubt the GLC would launch an immediate offensive into the warp.

[The Glyphstone]

For that matter, they might find radical elements of the Ordos Xenos making cautious overtures to them, if it gets out that the Lanterns aren't psykers, merely aliens using extremely powerful xenotech. Said inquisitors will likely be quite disappointed to discover the tech in question is highly limited, bonded to its wearer, and can't be reproduced with local resources, but they'll try all the same.

[Jayngfet]

...and may yield results. Lantern-lite is a shockingly common powerset. All one needs to know is that something is possible to get some idea of how it can work, and 40K is already ridiculous enough that it may actually work. I believe the oan version requires some kind of hyper-rare metal to function but obviously enough people have found workarounds.

A lot of unstable rings, including those by the same group but implied ot lack them or something else, are much more limited and lethal to the wearer, but in a future of grim darkness I doubt that'd stop them.

[The Glyphstone]

Actually, I can totally see unstable knock-off Lantern rings being manufactured by the Ordos Xenos, if they can get their hands on a genuine one for study and research. This has immense potential for FUN!!!

[Kantaki]

Actually, I can totally see unstable knock-off Lantern rings being manufactured by the Ordos Xenos, if they can get their hands on a genuine one for study and research. This has immense potential for FUN!!!

What about orks? Wouldn't those guys be able to turn random green rings into something GL ring like? for themself at least?
I mean if their vehicles are faster because of a paint job that wouldn't be impossible

[The Glyphstone]

What about orks? Wouldn't those guys be able to turn random green rings into something GL ring like? for themself at least?
I mean if their vehicles are faster because of a paint job that wouldn't be impossible

Probably not, because of how their collective psyche works. You might be able to do it, but you'd have to show the effects of a GL ring to a vast number of Orks, who'd then have to share that knowledge with other Orks (all of whom have to survive seeing said effects), and convince them that it was in fact the ring doing all of that. At that point, the concept of a Ring What Makes Green Fighty Fings would become widespread enough that the WAAAAAAAAUGH could duplicate it.