Greedy party members (a rant)

[Rysto]

Not really looking for advice here; I just need to vent. In today's session the party's fighter found 50 GP on a body we stumbled upon. We're 1st level, so that's a fairly big deal, and she got all greedy about it and refused to split the loot, which we'd done for every previous encounter we'd had. I got sick of the argument pretty quickly and said that we'd settle it when we got back to town.

Then we we did get back to town, she held her ground, and now she offered up the argument that in-character, we shouldn't even know that she had the money because there's no guarantee that we saw her find it. Never mind that I'd given her a 50GP Chain Skirt that I'd looted later on (and it's a good thing, too, given that she was previously wearing Leather Armour to go with her +1 Dex modifier. To be fair she realized pretty quickly into the session that a fighter with 12AC was a poor choice).

At this point I dropped it because she was right, but now things are going to get stupid. Every time she loots a corpse she's going to have to roll a Stealth check, and meanwhile I can very much in-character not loot corpses as I never did it once in any of the combats before the 50GP incident. So she can go ahead and roll Stealth with her +1 modifier, and I'll oppose with my Cleric with proficiency in Perception, and we'll see how that works out for her. Hell, I'll take disadvantage on the roll because I've no in-character reason to be watching for shenanigans, and I still have a 50-50 chance of catching her.

Ugh, this whole this is stupid and destructive to party dynamics. It's a team game for goodness' sake.

[Ruslan]

Ugh, this whole this is stupid and destructive to party dynamics. It's a team game for goodness' sake.

The Eight Kinds of Fun (http://angrydm.com/2014/01/gaming-for-fun-part-1-eight-kinds-of-fun/)

Mandatory reading for anyone who ever experienced intraparty conflict

[Giant2005]

I know that pain.
When we started a new campaign I even went out of my way to design a character that didn't care for money so it wouldn't be an issue. That was when I learned it wasn't about the money but the antagonism - that player just went ahead and found another reason to annoy my character.

[Gtdead]

I really like these type of players. They make excellent funny stories because karma's a bitch.

It's time for you to introduce your old friend from your background, Mr Lawful Good Paladin, that absolutely hates looting.

[Slipperychicken]

It's an OOC problem, so an in-character solution is not going to be appropriate or useful. Your player seems to think that this sort of behavior is acceptable in a team game, when it really is not acceptable.

I'd recommend talking to your group about it, explain exactly why this kind of PvP is bad for the game (i.e. PvP, including theft and loot-hogging, is not acceptable in a team game because it creates bad blood OOC and that reduces enjoyment), when it might be acceptable (i.e. playing paranoia or a game specially suited for it), and encourage your player to do things that are positive like roleplaying and supporting the team.

[Idkwhatmyscreen]

Your a cleric? There is a spell for that


The next time she loots a body, Tell the party that you would like to get some more information, Then cast Speak with Dead. Now you can't ask the corpse about money directly, As you run into the same problem as before, but you can ask other questions that can inderctly reveal that the poor fellow had loot. Assuming that the fighter has average charisma, you should be able to convince the group that she did it. Warning, this will likely lead to her charter dying or becoming a campaign villain.

So before you take my childish advice, I would recommend that you take my adult advice. Talk to your Dm about the problem (if it is even a problem or whatever) and have them talk to the fighter about how they are acting and if she is willing to change her behavior, then the problem is solved. If not then ask your Dm if he is OK with my childish revenge plan.

[NewDM]

Money really only matters up until you get your highest weapon and armor. After that a few gold a month for ammunition and expenses and you don't need money at all. Maybe a few potions. Its not really worth getting bent out of shape over, especially if you already have the best weapons and armor you can use.

[WickerNipple]

I'd rob a man who gave me a skirt when I needed armor.

[tieren]

50 metal coins are kind of conspicuous. It's not really something she can palm like a gem or something, if the rest of the party was anywhere nearby it would be pretty obvious.

[tombowings]

Your a cleric? There is a spell for that


The next time she loots a body, Tell the party that you would like to get some more information, Then cast Speak with Dead.

Or you could kill the fighter and cast Speak with Dead on the fighter herself...or, you know, cast Zone of Truth whenever discussion shares of the loot.

Really, though, it's an out of character problem, best solved as players. Honestly, you've got three options. 1) She doesn't know its a problem and talking to her will solve things painlessly. 2) She's bored with the game and trying to make her own fun. Figure out what the real problem is. If you fix that, the treasure problem will go away. or 3) She's a **** and you need to give her the boot.

[MaxWilson]

The Eight Kinds of Fun (http://angrydm.com/2014/01/gaming-for-fun-part-1-eight-kinds-of-fun/)

Mandatory reading for anyone who ever experienced intraparty conflict

So much this.

For example, if you think "it's a tactical team game" (Challenge) and she thinks "it's a chance to see what it's like to be a thief and a scoundrel" (Fantasy) then you're stepping on each other's fun because you're really not even playing the same game at all. The conflict may or may not be resolvable.

I hope you can get it straightened out, and I second the recommendation to read that article.

[Tallis]

Money really only matters up until you get your highest weapon and armor. After that a few gold a month for ammunition and expenses and you don't need money at all. Maybe a few potions. Its not really worth getting bent out of shape over, especially if you already have the best weapons and armor you can use.

I'm guessing, from the original post (AC 12 fighter in leather armor) that they're still pretty low level and the money still matters a lot. Probably no speak with dead spells yet either.

[mgshamster]

I'm guessing, from the original post (AC 12 fighter in leather armor) that they're still pretty low level and the money still matters a lot. Probably no speak with dead spells yet either.

OP also said "we're first level." :)

[NewDM]

OP also said "we're first level." :)

It still doesn't really matter. Unless the Fighter is getting all the gold and not sharing anything with the party. Next time just take the better armor or pickup everything that enemies have even if its just 5 daggers, and 5 padded armors. Then sell it for enough money to get your highest weapon/armor. Done, money is worthless after that.

[HoarsHalberd]

It still doesn't really matter. Unless the Fighter is getting all the gold and not sharing anything with the party. Next time just take the better armor or pickup everything that enemies have even if its just 5 daggers, and 5 padded armors. Then sell it for enough money to get your highest weapon/armor. Done, money is worthless after that.

I honestly chuckled at that. There are huge amounts of things that can be done with money even in a no magic item game. If nothing else you can hire a small army of hirelings. Then there's the whole purchasing lands and a castle, building political influence, training and equipping people. And then there's the pure RP stuff like buying fancy clothes, paying for dependants, booze, food.

Honestly I really don't understand why the "money is worthless" crowd are playing a TTRPG instead of a computer game.

[MaxWilson]

I honestly chuckled at that. There are huge amounts of things that can be done with money even in a no magic item game. If nothing else you can hire a small army of hirelings. Then there's the whole purchasing lands and a castle, building political influence, training and equipping people. And then there's the pure RP stuff like buying fancy clothes, paying for dependants, booze, food.

Honestly I really don't understand why the "money is worthless" crowd are playing a TTRPG instead of a computer game.

Hirelings, poisons, and Planar Binding are my favorite ways to turn money into power.

[Pex]

It still doesn't really matter. Unless the Fighter is getting all the gold and not sharing anything with the party. Next time just take the better armor or pickup everything that enemies have even if its just 5 daggers, and 5 padded armors. Then sell it for enough money to get your highest weapon/armor. Done, money is worthless after that.

It's not about the money. It's about the behavior. The player has proven she is not trustworthy. She needs to amend her ways or mend away from the table. If she refuses both options and the DM enables her to continue, then the OP needs to consider whether he should leave because it's not going to be solved in any other way. He doesn't have to leave if he can lump the situation and deal with it by some means.

[JoeJ]

I honestly chuckled at that. There are huge amounts of things that can be done with money even in a no magic item game. If nothing else you can hire a small army of hirelings. Then there's the whole purchasing lands and a castle, building political influence, training and equipping people. And then there's the pure RP stuff like buying fancy clothes, paying for dependants, booze, food.

Honestly I really don't understand why the "money is worthless" crowd are playing a TTRPG instead of a computer game.

What could I do with money?

Phase 1 - Buy a fleet of trading ships.
Phase 2 -
Phase 3 - Profit!

[HoarsHalberd]

What could I do with money?

Phase 1 - Buy a fleet of trading ships.
Phase 2 -
Phase 3 - Profit!

Phase 2 - Amass enough money to attain a Lordship and significant political power. Then extend my political ambitions.
Phase 2 - Amass enough money to set up a huge charitable organisation that may or may not be devoted to a religion and help tens of thousands of people.
Phase 2 - Elevate my character's entire extended family up to opulent positions of casual power and wealth so you need never worry about family again.
Phase 2 - Purchase every damn healing potion in the world and enough hirelings to carry them around with me so whenever I adventure I can bathe in healing potion afterwards.

[Shining Wrath]

The first time you catch her, in character, your reaction as a cleric would be ...?
Depends on the god, I suppose, but banishing the disloyal untrustworthy fighter from the party works for a lot of alignments. And if the rest of the party doesn't agree, the cleric quitting and going off to find someone else to adventure with is also a possibility.

[Skylivedk]

The greedy rogue in my group picked up a cursed dagger.

Still greedy. Now, also cursed.

[Tallis]

OP also said "we're first level." :)

Proving that I'm a good guesser!! ...and a terrible reader...:P


The greedy rogue in my group picked up a cursed dagger.

Still greedy. Now, also cursed.

I think this is an excellent solution if the DM wants to get involved.

[JakOfAllTirades]

My advice is to charge the greedy character extra for healing from now on.

A lot extra.

[Safety Sword]

The best way to handle this is to work it out as players. If you can't trust the player, it's much worse than not trusting the character.

If you can't do that, I'd suggest telling your DM that your character isn't interested in adventuring with a greedy so-and-so and that (in consultation with the rest of the party) you're all leaving on another quest. And the greedy character isn't invited.

Would you hang around with someone who behaved like this if you were an adventurer looking for fame and fortune?

[Malifice]

Not really looking for advice here; I just need to vent. In today's session the party's fighter found 50 GP on a body we stumbled upon. We're 1st level, so that's a fairly big deal, and she got all greedy about it and refused to split the loot, which we'd done for every previous encounter we'd had. I got sick of the argument pretty quickly and said that we'd settle it when we got back to town.

Then we we did get back to town, she held her ground, and now she offered up the argument that in-character, we shouldn't even know that she had the money because there's no guarantee that we saw her find it. Never mind that I'd given her a 50GP Chain Skirt that I'd looted later on (and it's a good thing, too, given that she was previously wearing Leather Armour to go with her +1 Dex modifier. To be fair she realized pretty quickly into the session that a fighter with 12AC was a poor choice).

At this point I dropped it because she was right, but now things are going to get stupid. Every time she loots a corpse she's going to have to roll a Stealth check, and meanwhile I can very much in-character not loot corpses as I never did it once in any of the combats before the 50GP incident. So she can go ahead and roll Stealth with her +1 modifier, and I'll oppose with my Cleric with proficiency in Perception, and we'll see how that works out for her. Hell, I'll take disadvantage on the roll because I've no in-character reason to be watching for shenanigans, and I still have a 50-50 chance of catching her.

Ugh, this whole this is stupid and destructive to party dynamics. It's a team game for goodness' sake.

Step 1 is to make it clear that anyone who steals from the party faces the loss of a hand on the first offence and execution on the second.

Step 2 is to follow through with your threat.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

The line that divides good roleplaying from being greedy can be hard to define. I suppose ahead of time there needs to be some understanding of exactly what type of game you're playing. I'm playing a game where it's expect that our characters backstab and keep things from one another, mostly because none of us, IC, trust one another as far as we can throw them.

But that was all decided upon ahead of time. It's a little different to blithely taking advantage. Indeed, I can't think of another term for it than 'taking advantage'. And there'll always be that player who recognises the segregation between IC and OOC information and exploits it. Some people still see the games in terms of 'me'. Their character is the protagonist so they should be the toughest, coolest and more equipped. Then other times people are just *******s. You can't reason with *******s because *******s are irrational. Irrationality doesn't respond rationality, it responds to fear.

I've heard some people in this thread say you can't reprimand the OOC player for IC actions. With respect to them and their position, sod that. You absolutely can and you probably should. When they complain, remind them that they brought it on themselves and you would have preferred to play by the rules.

[Elbacone]

While greedy players can be a nuisance. If it is just an IC thing it can actually be a good part of the story or roleplay. But it all hinges on the type of campaign or the DM. You might be able to speak to his seniors. A low level character might have a patron who has learned him his skills or perhaps he is part of a faction. Reporting him as a untrustworthy ally might give the DM ample reason to handle it in game.

[Lombra]

If the player wants to play a greedy character it's fine, it' s role play! Since the other characters don't have a clue on her keeping the gold for herself, it should be a sleight of hand vs passive perception check if the fightress does it in the same room of yours, while if she takes the money while nobody is around the PCs should understand if she has more cash than usual based on how she spends the gold.

[Dimcair]

50 metal coins are kind of conspicuous. It's not really something she can palm like a gem or something, if the rest of the party was anywhere nearby it would be pretty obvious.

I actually didn't even think about that, but you are right. Although they might be in a purse (which she can palm) they still might clink.


The other thing about this **** is that the DM better start using initiative and rounds for looting actions. He has to if it is supposed to be even remotely fair. If he doesn't want to (which I bet he doesn't) then he can take it up with the thief, telling her he has no time to deal with this kind of behavior.

[RumoCrytuf]

Not really looking for advice here; I just need to vent. In today's session the party's fighter found 50 GP on a body we stumbled upon. We're 1st level, so that's a fairly big deal, and she got all greedy about it and refused to split the loot, which we'd done for every previous encounter we'd had. I got sick of the argument pretty quickly and said that we'd settle it when we got back to town.

Then we we did get back to town, she held her ground, and now she offered up the argument that in-character, we shouldn't even know that she had the money because there's no guarantee that we saw her find it. Never mind that I'd given her a 50GP Chain Skirt that I'd looted later on (and it's a good thing, too, given that she was previously wearing Leather Armour to go with her +1 Dex modifier. To be fair she realized pretty quickly into the session that a fighter with 12AC was a poor choice).

At this point I dropped it because she was right, but now things are going to get stupid. Every time she loots a corpse she's going to have to roll a Stealth check, and meanwhile I can very much in-character not loot corpses as I never did it once in any of the combats before the 50GP incident. So she can go ahead and roll Stealth with her +1 modifier, and I'll oppose with my Cleric with proficiency in Perception, and we'll see how that works out for her. Hell, I'll take disadvantage on the roll because I've no in-character reason to be watching for shenanigans, and I still have a 50-50 chance of catching her.

Ugh, this whole this is stupid and destructive to party dynamics. It's a team game for goodness' sake.

Assuming you're not the DM as well, why didn't the DM step in and ref like they should have? If the game continually falls to this, I would recommend finding a new playgroup.

[NewDM]

I actually liked the post about the different kinds of fun article. That's probably what's happening. One person likes one type of fun (teamwork) and the other likes exploring a new personality (fantasy/exploration). The DM should talk to both players and find out what's going on. If it turns out that, this is the problem, then the DM can make it clear that even Rogue's don't usually steal from their friends (honor among thieves). Then the player can go about stealing from random NPCs to explore their fantasy/exploration fun type.

[Rhaegar]

With good slight of hand, he'll win most checks, but he will eventually be caught, especially when you calculate the odds of him missing the passive perception of each and every other party member, the odds of him missing after just 3-4 attempts starts getting pretty high.

Once the first time you notice him you can justify going through his packs to see if he pocketed anything else. You can then tell the character to fix his ways or be booted from the group, and to teach him a lesson, disperse everything he tried to keep for himself among the rest of the party.

While they player may justify it as being in character, you should enforce on the player that while in character, it may also be in character for the party to banish a party member caught of keeping things for himself and not sharing among the group.

The DM can also have some fun in cases like this in which certain cursed items are among the belongings. He will then have a tough time explaining why he wants a detect/identify magic/remove curse spell cast to help figure out/resolve his problem.

[Segev]

The in-character way to handle this is simply to "notice" when she has better gear than everybody else. "Where did you get that/the money to buy that?" Start suspecting her of being in the pay of some nefarious party enemy. Treat her like a spy.

[kaoskonfety]

"Who owns the dead mans gold"

Does the party (Players OR Characters) have an agreement, formal or otherwise, on loot splitting?
If its formal - does this loot find fall under the agreements terms?
If its informal - there are going to be disagreements unless everyone is very up front most of the time. I'd expect some low key underhanded behaviour in most groups. Nothing AWFUL. But hey, all is fair that has a dice mechanic for resolution.
If it doesn't exist this is a series of roll-offs until someone notices and calls them on it - whether this then results in some flavour of "roll initiative" or the forming of some sort of agreement will vary on group dynamics.

I've seem thousands of gold lifted from 'the group' by greedy individuals over the years.

I'm of the opinion it's not the DM's job to stop it - its the DM's issue if it comes to mediating the dispute if the players can't settle it themselves, but its been ages since that has made it past the Character 'level' to the players having to have a OCC chat, and I honestly can't recall the last time I actually needed to step in.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I actually liked the post about the different kinds of fun article. That's probably what's happening. One person likes one type of fun (teamwork) and the other likes exploring a new personality (fantasy/exploration). The DM should talk to both players and find out what's going on. If it turns out that, this is the problem, then the DM can make it clear that even Rogue's don't usually steal from their friends (honor among thieves). Then the player can go about stealing from random NPCs to explore their fantasy/exploration fun type.

I think the article was incomplete, in that some gamers enjoy the ninth type of fun: Being a D!ck.

I've had a number of friends who were difficult to game with due to this; they were great people right up until game time, but as soon as the game started, it was as if someone flipped a switch. They were at the game because that was their way of having fun: they just wanted to spend four hours Being a D!ck in a setting where they felt like they could get away with it, usually by making lame excuses like "I'm just role-playing my character" or "It's only a game."

Long story short: they were mistaken. Being a D!ck is not okay, even if it is their way of having fun.

[Malifice]

Seriously. Establish a party charter. Theft is punishable by the loss of a hand.

That'll stop it.

[Knaight]

Normally I'd be all for the different types of fun explanation, but that seems off here. I generally get bored with the pure Challenge mode pretty quickly (more accurately, I prefer it outside of RPG contexts or in small doses), and enjoy the playing of a flawed character much more. The thing about that though is that it is often more fun when the characters flaws hurt them.

In this case, if we assume that everything was true to the character, what is happening is that the player is playing an untrustworthy and greedy character who keeps digging a deeper hole. First, they took a bunch of gold for themselves when they were supposed to split it. Then, someone else just gave them something because they could use it more. Were I in that players shoes, I'd be trying to play up the characters inner conflict here, with them alternating between trying to justify their actions to themselves, trying to work up the courage to admit what they did, and possibly covertly trying to pay back what the character sees as their debt.

Out of character, there's also a different dynamic to that sort of play. People deliberately enjoy an opportunity to play their characters flaws getting them into trouble, people tend to find other people getting the party as a whole in trouble due to their flaws either hilarious (in a less serious campaign) or dramatically interesting (in a more serious campaign) instead of obnoxious (in a challenge based party campaign). That doesn't sound like the dynamic here.

[Shining Wrath]

I'm going to restate:
Talk to the player OOC. Point out that if being a thief from their party is their idea of role-playing a character, killing or banishing such a person might very well be in-character for your cleric (or someone else in the party). The parameters of what sort of intra-party competition is "fun" needs to be determined outside of game time.

[mgshamster]

I once had a fellow player decide that his version of fun was to cause as much murder and mayhem in-character as he could. He would start bar fights and in the middle of it pull out a weapon and start killing people (trying to claim self-defense).

The rest of us told him that he has two options: 1) he could change his character to be more in line with the rest of us, or 3) he could keep his character as is and accept the consequences of his actions. If he chose to keep it, we would subdue his character, turn him in to the local authorities, and the rest of us would continue on the campaign while he got to sit there and watch (and not play) while his character sat in jail. The DM would not pan the camera back to his character. Ever.

He decided to make a character less intent on murder.

[Doug Lampert]

I once had a fellow player decide that his version of fun was to cause as much murder and mayhem in-character as he could. He would start bar fights and in the middle of it pull out a weapon and start killing people (trying to claim self-defense).

The rest of us told him that he has two options: 1) he could change his character to be more in line with the rest of us, or 3) he could keep his character as is and accept the consequences of his actions. If he chose to keep it, we would subdue his character, turn him in to the local authorities, and the rest of us would continue on the campaign while he got to sit there and watch (and not play) while his character sat in jail. The DM would not pan the camera back to his character. Ever.

He decided to make a character less intent on murder.

There's a lot to be said for having an agreement (out of character) as to just what the group is doing.

A) "We're heroes, we don't do Evil stuff or PvP" is a perfectly fine play-style, but you should let people know. And having let people know, that rule needs enforcement (and the enforcement starts at the initial theft, which is in fact PvP behavior).

Since the DM allowed the theft in the OP's example, I doubt that the DM or the fighter's player is playing that game. At least some PvP is apparently allowed.

B) "We're murder-hobos with an alliance of convenience, we expect our characters to suffer the logical consequences of their actions in game, and we do not use out of character knowledge" also works reasonably well.

This seems to be what the group is actually doing. The fighter will "get away with it" because no one knows in character that she's getting away with anything. But ideally IMAO that means that if she were caught there'd presumably be in character consequences. [It might be worth discussing in advance that the in character consequences from a bunch of murder-hobos when they find that you personally are robbing them are unlikely to be survivable.]

I'll note that mgshamster's post above fits with this style too. The threatened consequences were in character, not meta game.

But this really is a case where there's no wrong way to play.

[Actually: I'd maintain that allowing theft but not retaliation if there is sufficiently clear evidence of theft is a wrong way to play. And I'd also argue that claiming your character would know from some obvious BS reasoning is also a wrong way to play. But that's just me. I'll assume that some people can have fun with those playstyles too.]

The important thing is that everyone at the same table be on the same page. And in the OP it's obvious that the OP is playing a "no PvP" game while the fighter is playing a game that allows at least limited PvP. In character this is an irreconcilable difference because the whole concept of PvP is metagame, your characters don't know in character who is a PC and who isn't (unless you are playing a very meta-game).

Your group needs to decide which game you are playing. Then play that game. But the OP isn't on the same page as the fighter's player or the DM. Which is where the problem lies. I'd suggest that the OP find out, out of character, just what this group considers reasonable in character behavior toward other characters.

[RickAllison]

I played a generous kleptomaniac recently. Because he went tomb-raiding, he accumulated more money in his private funds than the rest of the group had, including the group funds. He would buy potions for the party and on at least one occasion offered the LG monk some Bracers of Defense he saw in a store. Knowing exactly what methods my character was thinking of, the monk gave a swift "No, we don't do that."

They didn't seem to object when he mysteriously had some diamonds for Revivify. Or when he was sucked into the Elemental Plane of Earth and left behind thousands of GP. They didn't know, they didn't want to know. They also found a human heart in that bag...

[krugaan]

I played a generous kleptomaniac recently. Because he went tomb-raiding, he accumulated more money in his private funds than the rest of the group had, including the group funds. He would buy potions for the party and on at least one occasion offered the LG monk some Bracers of Defense he saw in a store. Knowing exactly what methods my character was thinking of, the monk gave a swift "No, we don't do that."

They didn't seem to object when he mysteriously had some diamonds for Revivify. Or when he was sucked into the Elemental Plane of Earth and left behind thousands of GP. They didn't know, they didn't want to know. They also found a human heart in that bag...

What the... although that does seem like a fun plot hook:

You all wake up and find out that Brumgurd has disappeared during the night. His bedroll and bag of holding are still there though.

You know ... its strange ... you don't exactly know what he has in there...

[Ruslan]

The fighter will "get away with it" because no one knows in character that she's getting away with anything. It's not reasonable to go though a corpse's pockets and fish 50GP out of there without any of the party members who are in the same room noticing anything.

In fact, unless the fighter was wise enough to create a distraction, send the other PCs to another room, or anything like that, this is one of the cases I wouldn't bother to roll against Perception. The task of noticing someone who's right next to you going through a corpse's pockets is so ridiculously easy that I'd just let them know: "you saw her going through the dead man's pockets and take some shiny stuff".

Anything else would be the DM blatantly fudging in favor of the Fighter.

[Theodoxus]

Few observations...

1) What is the fighter hording money for? If she needs more equipment than the rest of the party, I wouldn't have a problem with that... I'd rather she was upfront and be all "I need to save for platemail, I'll be nigh unstoppable as your friendly tank if that's a worthy cause for you" - but even sneakily, if I were to find out later - I'd shrug it off.

2) It would certainly be a Sleight of Hand check vs your (or anyone's) Perception. Probably Passive, unless you're watching her directly - or have cause to suspect.

3) What is the rest of the party makeup? I played a pair of rogues once with my bestie - he was a thief, I was a thug. While I helped the party beat down the enemies, he would sneak around looting treasures from crypts and coffers and such. I'd distract the rest of the team, and then we'd split the booty. We also SoH'd a lot of coin off bar tables and even pilfered coin from the team paladin from time to time to pay for lodging... although when the paladin finally caught us in the act, he wasn't so gregarious... but he did understand afterward to not pick on the pair of rogues... Point is, I feel your pain, but as long as rules aren't being broken, sometimes only in-game resolutions help in-game problems.

4) I'm super curious as to what the DM has to say about the situation. I really hope you come back with an update :)

[RickAllison]

What the... although that does seem like a fun plot hook:

You all wake up and find out that Brumgurd has disappeared during the night. His bedroll and bag of holding are still there though.

You know ... its strange ... you don't exactly know what he has in there...

We had this whole Egyptian thing where a heart needed to be weighed. My rogue of questionable morals had a brilliant idea to test this, so he ran off to the prison guard he had taken out shortly before. The other rogue (a halfling) jumped on it and had this bizarre encounter with Osiris or something. Meanwhile, my Aarakocra was carving out the heart of that guard. When he came back and saw the doorway was opened, he carefully stashed the heart in the Bag of Holding. It never got taken out...

It was right after this that he went tomb-raiding while the other party members investigated this mysterious doorway. Because I was the greedy party member stealing from the dead, I was near the entrance to the room when they broke open a Mummy Lord's tomb at level 7. Kept the tomb door from closing for several turns through lucky Athletics checks with a crowbar, just enough to save everyone but the Lawful Stupid paladin. Being a selfish, backstabbing, dead-desecrating thief ended up saving us from a TPK!

[Jarlhen]

As a DM and player my shtick is consequences. Every action has consequences. I rarely like to talk about these kinds of thing OOC. If someone is stealing from the party there's not a chance they'll get away with it for long. I, as a DM, will know when the player is behaving in a way which goes against what the party would like. And assuming there is a chance that the party would see or hear, then they get to roll for it. And I very strongly urge players, as a DM and player, to act in accordance with their backgrounds and personality, someone who steals or behaves in a way that goes against the grain of the party there is 0 chance that character will be around for long. They will be kicked out. I could not care less what the player OOC has to say. If they decide to steal or not share or behave like a ****, why on earth would the rest of the party want them around? They wouldn't. So that player would have to re-roll pretty damn quickly. I have absolutely no qualms about acting based on other people's actions and unless we're related or have a long in-game history I wouldn't hang around with someone that doesn't mesh with the rest of us, that character will be thrown out of the party in-game.

As my players know this, as the people I play alongside knows this, it creates an atmosphere of not trying to **** over the party. Does people still keep secrets? Absolutely, it's encouraged. Can people still be greedy? YES! I recently played a cutthroat rogue who was all about the gold. He was also the party's self-appointed accountant, he even set up a party fund. Everything we did as a team was split equally because he knew that if he started ripping the party off he wouldn't last long. It's common self-preservation, you don't **** where you eat. So what did he do? He made sure the party always took the wealthiest route, he negotiated hard-ball and always upped our rewards. He created his own opportunities independent of the party, such as pick-pocketing, scams, thievery, that kind of stuff. It's really not hard to be a reliable team player AND a greedy jerk with secrets.

But of course there are exceptions. Recently we started playing with a bunch of new players. We found a circlet of blasting. The sorcerer who loved fire identified it and began lying to the rest of us about what it was. This was a brand new player and I honestly think almost all new players go into this with a computer game RPG mind-set. That is, they need the lootz, the rest of the party is mostly just companions in their story. OOC we made it pretty clear that scamming the party never works, it's always best to be honest, that kind of stuff. But in an extremely polite and non-accusatory manner. My character, simultaneously, was able to identify the circlet as he's also a magic user. He immediately told people in more detail what it was and voted that the sorcerer keep it as they'll be most likely to use it. So what did all of this amount to? OOC the player now knew that scamming the party is a bad idea and would potentially create a foul mood, and in character he knew that we were fair and we would divide loot not based on greed but based on who needed it, who it would benefit. So if something was extra good for him it was almost guaranteed that he'd get it. Since then we've not had a single issue with this stuff. Everyone is on board and when it comes to loot we're fair and we divide.

So to the OP: If your character in-games knows the warrior is holding out, **** 'em. Inform the rest of the party, the warrior better swear to never do it again. Or if they don't, kick 'em out. Consequences is key, without it everything is pointless in my book.

[Rysto]

Wow, too many posts for me to respond to individually. Some quick responses:

I have read AngryDM's "8 kinds of fun" post (and it's a great, insightful piece) but I don't agree that it's the whole problem here. If the fighter was looking for intra-party conflict or to play a rogue-style character, they need to do so in a way that won't anger the other players OOC (and believe me, everybody else at the table was pissed) or lead to a situation that would wind up breaking up the party in-character.

The party consists of the fighter, my cleric, a wizard, a warlock and a ranger. Not a super balanced party but fortunately my cleric can spam Sacred Flame just as well from the front row as the back. The warlock's player couldn't make it to this session so he was played as a DMPC.

The DM's ruling in this case was that either the wizard or I could roll intimidate (with advantage) opposing a roll from the fighter. Unfortunately the "maybe you didn't see me do it" argument came up long after the looting happened, so it was hard to go back in time and resolve that. That's why I want to be sure that next time she pulls it, we resolve that issue right away (well, that and my perception is just a little bit better than my intimidate, given that I rolled a 5 for CHA).

The next session won't be for several weeks, but I'll try to remember to post an update.

[Sigreid]

"I'm sorry, I can't afford the cure spell you need because we don't seem to be making enough money to maintain my kit."

[NecessaryWeevil]

Why were you rolling Intimidate? To make the fighter share the loot? In that case it sounds like the DM already ruled that you saw them do it, which means your in-character options should be wide open (if you choose to go that route).

[BW022]

Ugh, this whole this is stupid and destructive to party dynamics. It's a team game for goodness' sake.

Time to handle this out of character.

Yes, anyone can make up a character who is greedy and stupid enough to steal from the party. However... that is an out-of-character choice to make such a character. The rest of the party could decide to all make assassin characters sworn to kill her character, or slavers out to enslave her character. Ask her if that would be fun? Going sessions trying to protect herself, but she can't because her character doesn't know that you are putting poison in her food, going to toss her over a cliff, or will sell her to the next orc tribe.

And after her character is dead, enslaved, etc. then what? Who wants to play in games when you know the other players are all secretly making players which are out to scr*w your character, likely to end the campaign?

D&D is a social game. Unless the players all agree, it is assumed that you aren't deliberately making characters which are going to start in-party fights and likely a quick end to the campaign.

You can play greedy without being stupid. Even a greedy person knows that stealing from the party will get them killed or kicked out of the party. In the real world... what happens when you steal from your fellow soldiers? If you can't trust they guy next to you over 50 coins... why would you trust them not to sell you out to the orcs?

[R.Shackleford]

My advice is to charge the greedy character extra for healing from now on.

A lot extra.

No, no, no. You are going about it the wrong way. That means that you have the spell and you are being a jerk.

Prepare those fun and weird spells that aren't really optimized but are still fun to use (sanctuary, silence, zone of truth) and then when they ask for healing just tell them you didn't prepare those spells. To go outside your normal list is risky as your deity likes order and structure but if people want to make suggestions then they can donate to your fund.

Level 1: xGP/day
Level 2: 1.5xGP/day
Level 3: 2GP/day

Don't tell them your exact list either.

If they ask for a Cure Wounds out of a 3rd level slot then it costs the same as a 3rd level spell... If they paid for 1st level Cure Wounds then that is all you will brace to cast. Don't wanna get your deity mad.

[EvilAnagram]

Here's the thing about greedy Fighters: if their greed becomes in-character knowledge (and it will because you started with a 15 passive perception), then rectifying the problem becomes as simple as refusing to heal them and looting them when they go down.

[Safety Sword]

Here's the thing about greedy Fighters: if their greed becomes in-character knowledge (and it will because you started with a 15 passive perception), then rectifying the problem becomes as simple as refusing to heal them and looting them when they go down.

Slippery slope to party doom town.

[Malifice]

Here's the thing about greedy Fighters: if their greed becomes in-character knowledge (and it will because you started with a 15 passive perception), then rectifying the problem becomes as simple as refusing to heal them and looting them when they go down.

Party Charter. Loss of a hand if caught stealing.

Its a time proven method.

[NNescio]

No, no, no. You are going about it the wrong way. That means that you have the spell and you are being a jerk.

Prepare those fun and weird spells that aren't really optimized but are still fun to use (sanctuary, silence, zone of truth) and then when they ask for healing just tell them you didn't prepare those spells. To go outside your normal list is risky as your deity likes order and structure but if people want to make suggestions then they can donate to your fund.

Level 1: xGP/day
Level 2: 1.5xGP/day
Level 3: 2GP/day

Don't tell them your exact list either.

If they ask for a Cure Wounds out of a 3rd level slot then it costs the same as a 3rd level spell... If they paid for 1st level Cure Wounds then that is all you will brace to cast. Don't wanna get your deity mad.

Sanctuary is the ideal door-busting spell though.

[themaque]

What's the rough percentage that 50 gold was to the rest of the loot? 50%? 10%?

Context would make a big deal for me. Someone stealing a bit of gold, skimming of the top, because they are playing a greedy character? Well that's just part of Role Playing.

If they are taking the majority share of the loot for themselves they are being something of a jerk OOC and not very wise IC. Talking to them would be best outside of game when you've had a chance to calm down yourself. It's hard to have a frank discussion when one party is mad and the other defensive.

If you're of a lawful bent IC than a party charter would help reduce that and give everyone IC and OOC an idea what people would expect.

[R.Shackleford]

Sanctuary is the ideal door-busting spell though.

Yeah and then it stops once the Fighter takes an attack action which then you just used a spell on a PC who probabaly wasn't going to get hit in the first place that negates their main purpose in the battle field.

Though now I want to slap Sanctuary on a Wiz/Rogue MC. Give the PC a familiar and take the mastermind rogue subclass.

Action: Help
Bonus: Help
Owl Familiar: Help

Call it the Oprah cause you get a help, and you get a help, everybody gets a help!

[Sigreid]

I played a generous kleptomaniac recently. Because he went tomb-raiding, he accumulated more money in his private funds than the rest of the group had, including the group funds. He would buy potions for the party and on at least one occasion offered the LG monk some Bracers of Defense he saw in a store. Knowing exactly what methods my character was thinking of, the monk gave a swift "No, we don't do that."

They didn't seem to object when he mysteriously had some diamonds for Revivify. Or when he was sucked into the Elemental Plane of Earth and left behind thousands of GP. They didn't know, they didn't want to know. They also found a human heart in that bag...

Similarly I played a rogue for a good while that upon realizing he could easily take what he really wanted decided that money was essentially just something to play with. He would steal things and give them away and when he found religion, his version of being a good parishioner was to steal from rival churches and gift their best stuff to his new found church in the middle of the night with no one watching.

[R.Shackleford]

Similarly I played a rogue for a good while that upon realizing he could easily take what he really wanted decided that money was essentially just something to play with. He would steal things and give them away and when he found religion, his version of being a good parishioner was to steal from rival churches and gift their best stuff to his new found church in the middle of the night with no one watching.

I feel like some religions would be like the Canada v Denmark whiskey war that is still going on.

www.reddit.com/comments/3siug3

[kaoskonfety]

Its a very important and strategic rock in the middle of nowhere! Trading booze with the enemy is just bonus.

[JellyPooga]

One of the tropes I have a pet peeve about is the "happy friendly fun time" party of adventurers that always get along and always split the loot evenly, even though they're more often than not from wildly different backgrounds and have distinctly different personalities.

Consider one of the most famous mis-matches in fiction; Gimli and Legolas. Both noble born, but to very different cultures with an ancient enmity and difference in outlook. Yes they vaguely get along because they're both Good characters and questing to save the world, but there's a tension there at first. It's not until well into the story and they've been through hell and back that their bromance blossoms.

That's two characters on the same page, goal-wise, from similarly martial and noble backgrounds. Now consider your average D&D party; there's very rarely a handful, let alone a lot of similarities between any of the characters in a given party.

The OP had already established, in-character, that their character was not interested in looting for one reason or another. Does that character (not the player) really have any justification for kicking up a stink when the Fighter keeps some gold he found doing something the Cleric has made it clear he wants no part of?

Does the Thief have to share all the gold he finds whilst out scouting? Does the Wizard have to share the gold he makes selling scrolls, potions or magic items? Does the Bard have to share his earnings from busking on street corners?

Yes, it can be constructive to have a "party contract" or similar agreement to share everything equally, but not every character will be interested in such a deal or even trustworthy enough to abide by it and there's no fault or problem with playing such a character.

A street-rat Thief in a party with a noble-born Paladin is under no obligation to abide by that Paladins moral or civil code and any play style that says he must play nice and share everything equally and abide by some contract his character has no regard for impinges on the choice of the player to play that Thief as a money-grubbing stick-it-to-the-man rebel who doesn't give one whit about what the Paladin thinks. Problem player or someone looking to create some interesting party dynamics?

Having said that, the OP has implied that the problem is not the character, but the player. If the Player is being a problem then no amount of IC retribution, rolls or intervention will stop them from being a problem until it's resolved Out-of-Character. I cannot stress this enough. OOC problems cannot be solved IC.

tl;dr
(1) Make sure the problem really is OOC.
(2) If it is, solve it OOC.
(3) If it isn't, take a look at the facts of the situation and decide if your Character really should have a problem with it. Ask yourself; as a Cleric not interested in looting, why are you concerned about looted gold?
(4) If your character does have a problem with it, have your Character do something about it, enjoy the interplay between your characters and stop whining that you, the player, think it's unfair based on the metagame notion that everyone in the party should have an equal share of all the treasure found.
(5) If not, what's the problem, again?