Multiclassing in the same class

[Thrasher92]

Can you multiclass in the same class? I want two aspects of two different archetypes that happen early in the build.

I read the multiclassing entry in the Player's Handbook and it doesn't say that I can't. It actually doesn't reference it at all.



For those of you wondering my reasons...

I want to build an Assassin/Swashbucker and take the Alert feat so I can eventually have a +15 to my initiative (+5 from Dex, +5 from Charisma, and +5 from Alert)

I was working on an assassin build when I started looking through the Sword Coast Adventurers Guide and I read the Swashbuckler entry.

At level 3 swashbucklers can add their Charisma modifier to their initiative, and at level 3 assassins get the "assassinate" feature which lets them have advantage on anyone that hasn't taken a turn in combat yet and it counts as a critical hit.

So, I should be able to multiclass Assassin 3/Swashbucker 3


Anyone know if this is against the rules?

[Zman]

Unfortunately not, it specifies gaining levels in a new or different class. Your DM may wave that for you, but the rules weren't written to permit it. Also, there are some logistical issues that arise.

[smcmike]

This is not allowed by the rules. Talk to your DM if you really want to do it. Your build is an example of why doing this might be problematic - stacking archetypes in the same class is not something that the game is designed for.

For a spellcasting class, what class level would a necromancer/diviner have?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Archetype =/= Class. A Rogue (Assassin) and Rogue (Swashbuckler) are still both Rogues; you can't multiclass Rogue/Rogue because, well, that's a single class.

[DanyBallon]

I wouldn't allow, as it means that you'll get all the rogue base class feature twice, which is kinda weird to me.

If you need to have the rule as written, one could argue that when they say that "you have the option of gaining a level in a new class whenever you advance in level, instead of gaining a level in your current class. " means that it must be a different class (not sub-class).

On the other hand, with such reading you may end up with someone saying that taking a different class--sub-class combination is a different class from your current class...

So my best advice is that you should rule it as what you think would be best for your group.

[Theodoxus]

I find it much less messy to just create feats that cover class archetype abilities. You want the Assassinate ability? Great, make a feat that grants it - probably need to have a pre-requisite: Must have at least 3d6 Sneak Attack dice to be able to pick up this feat.

Personally, I think Assassinate is weaker than Rakish Audacity... but I'm biased, as I think Swashbuckler is greater than any other rogue archetype.

[bid]

Personally, I think Assassinate is weaker than Rakish Audacity... but I'm biased, as I think Swashbuckler is greater than any other rogue archetype.
For melee it definitely is. For ranged, I'd take fighter's action surge over assassinate. I feel assassin is overrated.

TLDR; fighter 2 / swashbuckler 3 is almost better.

[Regitnui]

Extending the logic a bit, wouldn't a two-pact warlock be either torn apart or in deep metaphysical trouble?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Extending the logic a bit, wouldn't a two-pact warlock be either torn apart or in deep metaphysical trouble?

Depends what he's made a pact with - some beings might not mind their warlocks pacting around.

[Arial Black]

Depends what he's made a pact with - some beings might not mind their warlocks pacting around.

Exactly. For example, a fiend who wants to slowly corrupt a paladin who worships a good god would be even happier than when corrupting a paladin without a god.

[Giant2005]

At level 3 swashbucklers can add their Charisma modifier to their initiative, and at level 3 assassins get the "assassinate" feature which lets them have advantage on anyone that hasn't taken a turn in combat yet and it counts as a critical hit.

The bolded part isn't actually true.
Your enemy needs to be surprised in order for you to qualify for the auto-critical, although you do also need to beat their initiative score in order to get an attack in before they are no longer surprised. I mention that because the conditions required are obviously much more difficult to meet than you wrote, so you may not find it reliable enough to want to go for the build at all.

The fact that you can't multiclass Rogue/Rogue has been covered fairly well by the others, but if Initiative bonuses are all you want, there are other ways to do it (ways that have the benefit of not forcing you to increase Charisma).

Two levels of Bard will get you an extra plus 1-3 to your Initiative roll (depending on your level).
Seven levels of Fighter (Champion) will get you the same bonus of 1-3 to your Initiative roll (again, depending on level - this bonus may or may not stack with the Bard bonus. Talk to your DM).
Seven levels of Barbarian will get you Advantage on your Initiative rolls.
The Lucky feat will allow you to re-roll your Initiative.
Two levels of Wizard (Diviner) will allow you to either guarantee a high roll for your Initiative, or guarantee a low/average roll for your enemy's initiative.
A Wild Sorcerer can give itself Advantage on Initiative rolls and also lower your enemy's Initiative roll by 1d4 points.

[Blue Lantern]

Extending the logic a bit, wouldn't a two-pact warlock be either torn apart or in deep metaphysical trouble?

It actually may be the opposite, as for John Constantine guide to soul selling, make a pact with two or more different entities, bonus points if hostile to each other, that way when you die they can not decide who take your soul and if they fight for it they get vulnerable to some other enemy.
Result, the entity will do their best to keep you alive and well, because evils being can not share and don't want to risk a war :smallsmile:

[Waffle_Iron]

I'm going to multi-class rogue at every level. Now I'll get a new skill proficiency and two expertise skills and 1d6 sneak attack every level. I'll have every rogue skill and expertise in it by 8th level, plus expertise in my background skills and thieves tools. And 8d6 sneak attack, which would normally come online at 15th level.

I'll probably stick out one of my rogue classes to get thief, AT, and assassin each, taking me to 14th level, and then go back to multi classing rogue up to 20th level.

I'll end up with 17d6 sneak attack and each of the 3rd level subclass features! Sounds awesome!

Rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ thief 3/ arcane trickster 3/ assassin 3/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1

(Yeah, no.)

[Logosloki]

I'm going to multi-class rogue at every level. Now I'll get a new skill proficiency and two expertise skills and 1d6 sneak attack every level. I'll have every rogue skill and expertise in it by 8th level, plus expertise in my background skills and thieves tools. And 8d6 sneak attack, which would normally come online at 15th level.

I'll probably stick out one of my rogue classes to get thief, AT, and assassin each, taking me to 14th level, and then go back to multi classing rogue up to 20th level.

I'll end up with 17d6 sneak attack and each of the 3rd level subclass features! Sounds awesome!

Rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ thief 3/ arcane trickster 3/ assassin 3/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1/ rogue 1

(Yeah, no.)

"The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue table."

As a DM you could also interpret this as normal progression (they are a rogue x, a collective of all their rogue levels) or, since they are multiclassed, treat each instance of rogue as a separate entity for the purposes of progression (Rogue x/Rogue x+1 would take the value of x+1 for their sneak attack as it is the highest rogue level).

I have no qualms with players dipping into their own class for the purposes of double dipping archetypes. I do however tell them that each instance is treated as a separate class so they don't get to stack the levels for progression. So in one case at least a Wizard/Wizard is just that and gains spell slots based on the multiclass table and can only gain spells based on their highest wizard level, not their wizard levels combined.

[Waffle_Iron]

"The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue table."

As a DM you could also interpret this as normal progression (they are a rogue x, a collective of all their rogue levels) or, since they are multiclassed, treat each instance of rogue as a separate entity for the purposes of progression (Rogue x/Rogue x+1 would take the value of x+1 for their sneak attack as it is the highest rogue level).

I have no qualms with players dipping into their own class for the purposes of double dipping archetypes. I do however tell them that each instance is treated as a separate class so they don't get to stack the levels for progression. So in one case at least a Wizard/Wizard is just that and gains spell slots based on the multiclass table and can only gain spells based on their highest wizard level, not their wizard levels combined.

The fact that the DM needs to make interpretations to avoid the silliness I proposed is a pretty strong indication that allowing it at all is a bad idea.

IMO. YMMV.

[CapnZapp]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?452358-Can-one-multiclass-into-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?486672-Multiclassing-in-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482358-Multiclassing-into-the-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?480138-multiclass-within-same-class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387596-Can-you-multiclass-within-the-same-class-for-different-archetypes