Having fun with GREASE! But do they get two chances to pick up?

[timoteo]

Hi, I just recently used the GREASE spell in a combat test and decided to try it on a sword. We got the rules worked out on how the grease spell applies to an in-use object, except for one tiny detail I can't seem to find an answer on ...

Ok, let's say he failed the initial reflex roll and his sword gets coated and he therefore dropped it. On his turn, he tries to pick it up, thus rolling once again (and for every turn thereafter until the spell wears off) to try and make the save to see if he can grasp it. Ok so far, so good, but then ...

Friend argued he could make two attempts, because the first one is a movement, and he can do two movements in a turn. Is he right ... does he get two chances to pick it up? If so, maybe it evens out because that ends his turn, and NEXT turn even though he has picked it up, he must roll again to see if he drops it when he goes to USE it. But that would also mean if he HAD picked it up (beating the DC) on his first roll, his second action (using it) he would have to roll and beat the DC once again.

I think it would be better/easier/streamlined if there was just one reflex DC check for a "pick-up-and-use" and if missed it slips from his hand as tries to pick it up. No second attempt, but if he beats the DC then he can pick it up AND use it.

What say you, oh noble and wise masters?

[Andezzar]

Your firend is absolutely right on the RAW. picking an item up is a move action (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#manipulateanItem). you can transform your standard action into a move action. And yes picking the greased item up and using it are two different actions that each require a reflex save.

Whether only one roll is easier depends on the save bonus of the character. If he regularly makes the save he gets the full effect with only one roll, if he has trouble hitting the DC partial success (i.e. just grabbing the item) is impossible.

[timoteo]

Thanks, Andezzar. The only reason I questioned it -- besides it just seemed somewhat burdensome -- is the wording on the spell: "A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item." It says "saving throw" -- singular -- for each round ... i.e. not each action. Then it goes on to sat "pick up OR use" ... not AND/or. What do you think of it in that "light" ?

[Andezzar]

It is ambiguous, ask your DM.

[Seward]

For extra fun in situations like this, use a readied action to inflict the grease, instead of casting it on your turn.

If he fails the reflex save, his standard action gets entirely wasted, and if he wants to try to pick it up with a remaining move action, he'll maybe provoke an AOO from whomever he was trying to stab, leaving aside the whole "new reflex save when pick things up" situation.

I'm a fan of using sanctuary and other spells of this sort in that way. (sanctuary's problem is that it is wasted if someone isn't already committed to attacking the target - readied actions help with that). Sanctuary, Command, Grease, in higher levels even things like wall of force or dim-dooring the target out of reach.