wish spell

[Amdy_vill]

if you use a wish spell could you remove level adjustment from templates

[RoboEmperor]

if you use a wish spell could you remove level adjustment from templates

Only if your DM allows.

There is a level buy off variant rule. Check that out. Its on the d20srd.

[Inevitability]

By RAW? No. Perhaps if you have a lenient DM, and even then said DM is completely free to twist it.

Not to mention that the character probably has no idea what level adjustments are or how they are preventing him from reaching his full potential, and has no good reason to waste a bunch of his magical resources on removing it.

[Amdy_vill]

what are the limits of a wish spell

[Esprit15]

A wish can produce any one of the following effects.

Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.

Duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.

Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.

Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.

Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.

Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.

Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.

Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

Remove injuries and afflictions. A single wish can aid one creature per caster level, and all subjects are cured of the same kind of affliction. For example, you could heal all the damage you and your companions have taken, or remove all poison effects from everyone in the party, but not do both with the same wish. A wish can never restore the experience point loss from casting a spell or the level or Constitution loss from being raised from the dead.

Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes, one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from losing an experience level.

Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)
These are the limits of wish. Anything beyond those is basically DM fiat.

[Amdy_vill]

is there any tricks to cast a wish for free

[MisterKaws]

Yes, by mimicking Reincarnate with some alterations and just outright removing the cause for your LA.

[Amdy_vill]

how would you do this

[Inevitability]

is there any tricks to cast a wish for free

Shapechanging into a Zodar is the common one, I believe.

[RoboEmperor]

is there any tricks to cast a wish for free

Planar bind an Efreeti, Noble Djinni, Pit Fiend, or Glabrezu. You might need to mind control them somehow. Alternatively, Gate these creatures in. Candle of Invocation is the most easiest and cheesiest method of achieving this.

Shapechange into Zodar.

Create a Simulacrum or Ice Assassin of an Efreeti, Noble Djinni, Pit Fiend, or Glabrezu.

Go the Dweomerkeeper PrC and cast wish for free.

[EyethatBinds]

Why are you trying to bypass the rules when Rule Zero exists? You're asking for a magic method to wish away a level adjustment you chose at character creation (I assume) and now you're asking how to bypass expending 5,000 experience or the requisite gold cost for someone casting the wish spell.

Why don't you just talk to your DM instead of trying to find ways to "cheat" the system?

Also, how would one phrase a wish for an entirely external mechanic like level adjustment? If I were the DM, I'd require your character to state their wish aloud for maximum twisting.

[Amdy_vill]

could you wish to have all the bonuses of every race and none of the negatives

[ATHATH]

could you wish to have all the bonuses of every race and none of the negatives
Yes, but that might destroy every creature (or thing) in existence, including you.

[Amdy_vill]

how could that happen

[MisterKaws]

That's Quarut and Varakhut's territory there. You don't want to mess with Quaruts and Varakhuts. Don't even try it.

[Keltest]

how could that happen

However your DM wants it to. Asking for anything outside of what is printed in the book is implicitly giving the DM permission to mess with you in zany and unpredictable ways.

[ATHATH]

how could that happen
If there were no (remaining) races (or if the concept of "race" never existed), you'd have the bonuses of all of them.

[Efrate]

You a spell to gain a template permanently. It has an ECL penalty. That is a harmful effect. Wish that effect away. Its slippery but kind of works. Just need to find/create said spell. Run this by your DM if you don't want to be taken to task for cheesing. Its essentially similar to the reincarnate trick, and works by RAW provided you can get your DM to agree that ECL is a harmful effect.

There may be something with iron heart surge, but that's the limburger factory.

[Cruiser1]

That's Quarut and Varakhut's territory there. You don't want to mess with Quaruts and Varakhuts. Don't even try it.
Actually, they're both weak monsters, and good for XP/loot farming. A Quarut inevitable is only CR 17, and a Varakhut CR 19. By the time you significantly mess with time and space (get Quaruts after you) or attack gods (get Varakhuts after you) you can easily handle them. :smalltongue:

[Crake]

Actually, they're both weak monsters, and good for XP/loot farming. A Quarut inevitable is only CR 17, and a Varakhut CR 19. By the time you significantly mess with time and space (get Quaruts after you) or attack gods (get Varakhuts after you) you can easily handle them. :smalltongue:

You can easily handle them, sure, but your parents that they went back and killed to erase you from the timeline couldn't do jack :smallwink:

[Kelb_Panthera]

is there any tricks to cast a wish for free

There are but don't go down that particular rabbit hole. Having even just a once per day free wish seriously shifts the game's behavior and will be very likely to cause issues at the table for your DM and any of the other PC's that -don't- get free wishes. Just leave it in the realm of theoretical optimization where it belongs.

[Inevitability]

You can easily handle them, sure, but your parents that they went back and killed to erase you from the timeline couldn't do jack :smallwink:

Easily remedied:

Cast Mindrape on yourself to make it impossible for you to notice you are interacting with yourself in any way, be it through time travel, alternate timelines, or other shenanigans.
Cast Mindrape on yourself to make you perform the following actions in this precise order.

1. Cast Teleport Through Time on yourself to travel back to the moment of your conception.
2. Create a sealed room with enough food and water for several years that is remote enough to prevent any kind of detection. Ward it against teleportation from anyone else than yourself.
3. Enter the room and seal it.
4. Cast Vision of Entropy on yourself and voluntarily fail your saving throws.
5. Be unconscious for an hour.
6. Regain consciousness.
7. Cast Teleport Through Time to travel back in time to the moment you cast Vision of Entropy on yourself.
8. Cast Alter Self on yourself to change gender.
9. Have dual-polymorphed sex with your own unconscious past-self without realizing you are (okay, typing that felt weird).
10. Use any available magic to ensure conception.
11. Travel back to the moment you cast Teleport Through time.
12. Wait.
13. Give birth.
14. Use magic to determine child's resemblance to you. If child is distinct, disintegrate it, cast Mindrape on yourself to make you forget all that happened, and repeat step 4-16.
15. After a suitable child has been born, teleport to location of your parents.
16. Teleport Through Time to the moment of birth, and swap 'you' with your pseudo-asexually cloned 'twin'.
17. Disintegrate pseudo-asexually cloned twin.
18. Ensure you do still exist. If not, something has gone wrong. Hopefully you'll grandfather paradox back into existence, if not, that sucks.
19. Mindrape both parents to learn how they would have raised their child.
20. Disintegrate both parents. Repeat step 18.
21. Polymorph into a Dvati.
22. Cast Alter Self to make your two Dvati bodies look like your parents.
23. Raise child, making sure to replicate intended and remembered upbringing.
24. Once child has left home, make sure to secretly guard it until it has arrived at a point in time where it is able to fight off Quaruts and Varakhuts.
25. If child dies due to Quaruts despite your best efforts, return it to life with a Wish and cast Mindrape to make it forget it died.
26. After many years, watch 'child' perform step 1.
27. Cast Wish to remove all changes to your personality, memories, or alignment caused by Mindrape.

You now have created a twisted loop of time where you have become your own parents, thereby eliminating the possibility of anyone killing your ancestors, while simultaneously ensuring your 'clone' self was at no point vulnerable to Quarut attack.

The quaruts can't kill your 'real' infant self, because you already did, nor can they kill your 'real' parents (both because you killed them and because killing them wouldn't affect you in any way). They can't kill the 'clone' you either, because said individual is continuously guarded by a high-level wizard fanatically devoted to protecting 'himself'.

Nor has at any point the timeline been disturbed. Three individuals have been permanently killed, yes, but anything they ever did is replicated to the finest details. Your own childhood memories remain correct and at no point would the time travel cause you to have seen something you wouldn't have when you 'experienced' it (hence the need for Vision of Entropy).

[Crake]

Easily remedied:

Cast Mindrape on yourself to make it impossible for you to notice you are interacting with yourself in any way, be it through time travel, alternate timelines, or other shenanigans.
Cast Mindrape on yourself to make you perform the following actions in this precise order.

1. Cast Teleport Through Time on yourself to travel back to the moment of your conception.
2. Create a sealed room with enough food and water for several years that is remote enough to prevent any kind of detection. Ward it against teleportation from anyone else than yourself.
3. Enter the room and seal it.
4. Cast Vision of Entropy on yourself and voluntarily fail your saving throws.
5. Be unconscious for an hour.
6. Regain consciousness.
7. Cast Teleport Through Time to travel back in time to the moment you cast Vision of Entropy on yourself.
8. Cast Alter Self on yourself to change gender.
9. Have dual-polymorphed sex with your own unconscious past-self without realizing you are (okay, typing that felt weird).
10. Use any available magic to ensure conception.
11. Travel back to the moment you cast Teleport Through time.
12. Wait.
13. Give birth.
14. Use magic to determine child's resemblance to you. If child is distinct, disintegrate it, cast Mindrape on yourself to make you forget all that happened, and repeat step 4-16.
15. After a suitable child has been born, teleport to location of your parents.
16. Teleport Through Time to the moment of birth, and swap 'you' with your pseudo-asexually cloned 'twin'.
17. Disintegrate pseudo-asexually cloned twin.
18. Ensure you do still exist. If not, something has gone wrong. Hopefully you'll grandfather paradox back into existence, if not, that sucks.
19. Mindrape both parents to learn how they would have raised their child.
20. Repeat step 21.
21. Polymorph into a Dvati.
22. Cast Alter Self to make your two Dvati bodies look like your parents.
23. Raise child, making sure to replicate intended and remembered upbringing.
24. Once child has left home, make sure to secretly guard it until it has arrived at a point in time where it is able to fight off Quaruts and Varakhuts.
25. If child dies due to Quaruts despite your best efforts, return it to life with a Wish and cast Mindrape to make it forget it died.
26. After many years, watch 'child' perform step 1.
27. Cast Wish to remove all changes to your personality, memories, or alignment caused by Mindrape.

You now have created a twisted loop of time where you have become your own parents, thereby eliminating the possibility of anyone killing your ancestors, while simultaneously ensuring your 'clone' self was at no point vulnerable to Quarut attack.

The quaruts can't kill your 'real' infant self, because you already did, nor can they kill your 'real' parents (both because you killed them and because killing them wouldn't affect you in any way). They can't kill the 'clone' you either, because said individual is continuously guarded by a high-level wizard fanatically devoted to protecting 'himself'.

Nor has at any point the timeline been disturbed. Three individuals have been permanently killed, yes, but anything they ever did is replicated to the finest details. Your own childhood memories remain correct and at no point would the time travel cause you to have seen something you wouldn't have when you 'experienced' it (hence the need for Vision of Entropy).

That process does make some pretty huge assumptions about how timelines work and is just littered with paradoxes unfortunately.

[Inevitability]

That process does make some pretty huge assumptions about how timelines work and is just littered with paradoxes unfortunately.

Teleport Through Time straight up tells us the timeline is self-correcting, so you don't have to worry about minor differences between your actions and what initially happened.

I admit it assumes a stable time loop, but I don't think that necessarily means it's impossible. Don't see it as changing the past: see it as traveling back in time and making happen what has already happened.

And on paradoxes: of course those appear! No form of time travel is without its paradoxes, and in no case is it absolutely clear what happens when those occur. If a Quarut travels back in time and kills you, it also causes a paradox (after all, it just eliminated its reason to go to the past).

[Gallowglass]

20. Repeat step 21.
21. Polymorph into a Dvati.

Priceless.

[Inevitability]

Priceless.

That must have been left over from when I changed some numbers. Fixed it now.

[Bakkan]

Easily remedied:

Cast Mindrape on yourself to make it impossible for you to notice you are interacting with yourself in any way, be it through time travel, alternate timelines, or other shenanigans.
Cast Mindrape on yourself to make you perform the following actions in this precise order.

1. Cast Teleport Through Time on yourself to travel back to the moment of your conception.
2. Create a sealed room with enough food and water for several years that is remote enough to prevent any kind of detection. Ward it against teleportation from anyone else than yourself.
3. Enter the room and seal it.
4. Cast Vision of Entropy on yourself and voluntarily fail your saving throws.
5. Be unconscious for an hour.
6. Regain consciousness.
7. Cast Teleport Through Time to travel back in time to the moment you cast Vision of Entropy on yourself.
8. Cast Alter Self on yourself to change gender.
9. Have dual-polymorphed sex with your own unconscious past-self without realizing you are (okay, typing that felt weird).
10. Use any available magic to ensure conception.
11. Travel back to the moment you cast Teleport Through time.
12. Wait.
13. Give birth.
14. Use magic to determine child's resemblance to you. If child is distinct, disintegrate it, cast Mindrape on yourself to make you forget all that happened, and repeat step 4-16.
15. After a suitable child has been born, teleport to location of your parents.
16. Teleport Through Time to the moment of birth, and swap 'you' with your pseudo-asexually cloned 'twin'.
17. Disintegrate pseudo-asexually cloned twin.
18. Ensure you do still exist. If not, something has gone wrong. Hopefully you'll grandfather paradox back into existence, if not, that sucks.
19. Mindrape both parents to learn how they would have raised their child.
20. Disintegrate both parents. Repeat step 18.
21. Polymorph into a Dvati.
22. Cast Alter Self to make your two Dvati bodies look like your parents.
23. Raise child, making sure to replicate intended and remembered upbringing.
24. Once child has left home, make sure to secretly guard it until it has arrived at a point in time where it is able to fight off Quaruts and Varakhuts.
25. If child dies due to Quaruts despite your best efforts, return it to life with a Wish and cast Mindrape to make it forget it died.
26. After many years, watch 'child' perform step 1.
27. Cast Wish to remove all changes to your personality, memories, or alignment caused by Mindrape.

You now have created a twisted loop of time where you have become your own parents, thereby eliminating the possibility of anyone killing your ancestors, while simultaneously ensuring your 'clone' self was at no point vulnerable to Quarut attack.

The quaruts can't kill your 'real' infant self, because you already did, nor can they kill your 'real' parents (both because you killed them and because killing them wouldn't affect you in any way). They can't kill the 'clone' you either, because said individual is continuously guarded by a high-level wizard fanatically devoted to protecting 'himself'.

Nor has at any point the timeline been disturbed. Three individuals have been permanently killed, yes, but anything they ever did is replicated to the finest details. Your own childhood memories remain correct and at no point would the time travel cause you to have seen something you wouldn't have when you 'experienced' it (hence the need for Vision of Entropy).

I... I think I may need therapy if I every try that in a game.

[Gallowglass]

That must have been left over from when I changed some numbers. Fixed it now.

Why? It was perfect as it was. :)

[Ashtagon]

0. Mindrape doesn't work like that. It let's you write new 'memories' or erase existing ones, but it doesn't let you avoid remembering events or forming associations based on those events in your future as and when they happen. Nor does it act as any kind of compulsion spell to make you do anything.

7. Teleport through time has a minimum 'range' of one day. This proposed usage requires a 'range' of one hour or less.

n. The inevitables could still kill your grandparents to defeat all your time travel shenanigans. No grandparents means no parents means no you to kill parents and replace them with more yous.


Easily remedied:

Cast Mindrape on yourself to make it impossible for you to notice you are interacting with yourself in any way, be it through time travel, alternate timelines, or other shenanigans.
Cast Mindrape on yourself to make you perform the following actions in this precise order.

1. Cast Teleport Through Time on yourself to travel back to the moment of your conception.
2. Create a sealed room with enough food and water for several years that is remote enough to prevent any kind of detection. Ward it against teleportation from anyone else than yourself.
3. Enter the room and seal it.
4. Cast Vision of Entropy on yourself and voluntarily fail your saving throws.
5. Be unconscious for an hour.
6. Regain consciousness.
7. Cast Teleport Through Time to travel back in time to the moment you cast Vision of Entropy on yourself.
8. Cast Alter Self on yourself to change gender.
9. Have dual-polymorphed sex with your own unconscious past-self without realizing you are (okay, typing that felt weird).
10. Use any available magic to ensure conception.
11. Travel back to the moment you cast Teleport Through time.
12. Wait.
13. Give birth.
14. Use magic to determine child's resemblance to you. If child is distinct, disintegrate it, cast Mindrape on yourself to make you forget all that happened, and repeat step 4-16.
15. After a suitable child has been born, teleport to location of your parents.
16. Teleport Through Time to the moment of birth, and swap 'you' with your pseudo-asexually cloned 'twin'.
17. Disintegrate pseudo-asexually cloned twin.
18. Ensure you do still exist. If not, something has gone wrong. Hopefully you'll grandfather paradox back into existence, if not, that sucks.
19. Mindrape both parents to learn how they would have raised their child.
20. Disintegrate both parents. Repeat step 18.
21. Polymorph into a Dvati.
22. Cast Alter Self to make your two Dvati bodies look like your parents.
23. Raise child, making sure to replicate intended and remembered upbringing.
24. Once child has left home, make sure to secretly guard it until it has arrived at a point in time where it is able to fight off Quaruts and Varakhuts.
25. If child dies due to Quaruts despite your best efforts, return it to life with a Wish and cast Mindrape to make it forget it died.
26. After many years, watch 'child' perform step 1.
27. Cast Wish to remove all changes to your personality, memories, or alignment caused by Mindrape.

You now have created a twisted loop of time where you have become your own parents, thereby eliminating the possibility of anyone killing your ancestors, while simultaneously ensuring your 'clone' self was at no point vulnerable to Quarut attack.

The quaruts can't kill your 'real' infant self, because you already did, nor can they kill your 'real' parents (both because you killed them and because killing them wouldn't affect you in any way). They can't kill the 'clone' you either, because said individual is continuously guarded by a high-level wizard fanatically devoted to protecting 'himself'.

Nor has at any point the timeline been disturbed. Three individuals have been permanently killed, yes, but anything they ever did is replicated to the finest details. Your own childhood memories remain correct and at no point would the time travel cause you to have seen something you wouldn't have when you 'experienced' it (hence the need for Vision of Entropy).

[Nibbens]

That must have been left over from when I changed some numbers. Fixed it now.

However, it was oddly fitting in a structured list on time travel. lol.



n. The inevitables could still kill your grandparents to defeat all your time travel shenanigans. No grandparents means no parents means no you to kill parents and replace them with more yous.

Actually, this entire list and what is being proposed would actually BE a reason for any and all those time-guardian-beings to get involved. lol.

[Crake]

Teleport Through Time straight up tells us the timeline is self-correcting, so you don't have to worry about minor differences between your actions and what initially happened.

I admit it assumes a stable time loop, but I don't think that necessarily means it's impossible. Don't see it as changing the past: see it as traveling back in time and making happen what has already happened.

And on paradoxes: of course those appear! No form of time travel is without its paradoxes, and in no case is it absolutely clear what happens when those occur. If a Quarut travels back in time and kills you, it also causes a paradox (after all, it just eliminated its reason to go to the past).

Well, to be fair, what the spell actually says is that the easiest way to rule it is what you described above (for the sake of the DM's sanity), but ultimately how time functions is up to the DM.

[Inevitability]

I... I think I may need therapy if I every try that in a game.

You're welcome, good sir.


0. Mindrape doesn't work like that. It let's you write new 'memories' or erase existing ones, but it doesn't let you avoid remembering events or forming associations based on those events in your future as and when they happen. Nor does it act as any kind of compulsion spell to make you do anything.

7. Teleport through time has a minimum 'range' of one day. This proposed usage requires a 'range' of one hour or less.

n. The inevitables could still kill your grandparents to defeat all your time travel shenanigans. No grandparents means no parents means no you to kill parents and replace them with more yous.

0. It can also alter emotions and opinions. By linking whatever you want someone to do with incredible pleasure and anything else with grievous suffering, you can easily make someone do whatever you want. The same goes for controlling future behavior. If you must, you can replace it with a True Domination spell or somesuch, though.

7. The principle remains the same. All you need to do is use a form of unconsciousness that lasts for days. You could just put on a Ring of Sustainance and cast Sequester on yourself.

n. No grandparents would result in a timeline where you arrive with clone-you but can't find anyone to replace. You can still raise yourself in secret, though, using False Sensory Input to make child-you experience everything you remember experiencing.

[tropical_punch]

Now I kind of want to play a zany campaign where you're constantly travelling back in time and doing even wackier and more convoluted things to keep your past selves alive.

[Inevitability]

Now I kind of want to play a zany campaign where you're constantly travelling back in time and doing even wackier and more convoluted things to keep your past selves alive.

Seems like a certain forum member already is going to have begun that game.


"You can't grandfather paradox me out of existence! I already am going to have had ontological paradoxed myself into existence!"

[nedz]

Easily remedied:
this is the phrase I object to.:smallsmile:

Now I kind of want to play a zany campaign where you're constantly travelling back in time and doing even wackier and more convoluted things to keep your past selves alive.
Best/Worst one I had (using homebrew time travel spells back in 1E)

Two players from a high level party of five


Go back in time to kill BBEG when he was a child
Return to the future only to discover that half the people you knew were never born, that the world is very different to how you remember it and that several previous, and important, quests were never done because key people were never around in the first place
Go back in time to stop yourselves from killing the BBEG
Confront him again anyway, realise that although he is powerless there is nothing you can do because of above
Beat him up with your fists out of frustration
Realize that this is what could have set him on the path of evil in the first place
Go back in time, again, to stop yourselves from doing the above
Return to the future and inform the rest of the party that you are not going to challenge the BBEG in the present because reasons.

[Inevitability]

this is the phrase I object to.:smallsmile:

These forums have birthed builds that require destroying 1000 years of history, locking a number of peoples' minds inside an endless dream, then moving their actual, physical bodies inside that dream. Other builds require you to throw black holes if you want to achieve your maximum damage potential, which is best expressed in scientific notation. I think a character who rewrites his own origins is relatively mild compared to that.

[atemu1234]

Easily remedied:{snip}

"Easily"

I mean, it works, but it's not 'easy'.

[Inevitability]

"Easily"

I mean, it works, but it's not 'easy'.

See the above post. :smalltongue: