Help/Opinion on Campaign idea

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

Hello everyone. I am finally going to run a Pathfinder Campaign in couple of weeks and have been slowly working on plot ideas for it. The trouble is that i'm completely new at creating a campaign plots and was wondering if someone would like to suggest some ideas and opinions for the campaign to help complete it.
the campaign is going to be guild base where the group will select and complete missions posted by npc.

some ideas i have are.
-have the main villain be a Rakshasa who is disguise as the guild master and is using the guild to complete is evil plan.

- having semi cruel group of npc who are trying to stop the Rakshasa from his evil plot, but keep on being defeated by the player on the guildmaster(Rakshasa) orders.

eventually i what the player to find out that there guild master is tricking them. the main thing i'm missing is the goal the Rakshasa wishes to complete by using the guild, so any help or opinion on thing in my campain that could i could add, change, or improve would be very helpful.

[Toilet Cobra]

Depends on the kind of guild. If it's a thieves' guild, it could be political or economic control, with the aim of placing himself at the head of a mortal nation or just destroying one from within for the pleasure of it. Same could go for a guild of merchants.

Guild of sages/learned types/magic users, he could have some kind of eldritch goal ("Get the king's magic scepter and summon the XXXXX") or maybe he wants to change the nation's attitude towards something magical (Like opening the country up to demon summoning or necromancy, in the hope of eventually plunging it into darkness). Lots of possibilities with that one, but generally I think a Rakshasa wants to improve its own station or cause destruction; rarely will they be the sub-boss of their own scheme but rather the apex evil. Though they may be manipulated themselves by a greater force.

I will say that you should try to resist the sort of predictable reveal. To make it more satisfying for the players, have them come to realize that there is more to the story over time, and don't slap them with a big plot-point where the evil villain escapes just as they realize what's going on.

Other than that, have fun! Sounds like a setup with some potential.

[Psyren]

- Rakshasa is using the guild itself as pawns to kill/stymie/discredit a powerful rival.
- Rakshasa doesn't actually care about the guild, but is interested in {macguffin} they are guarding/hunting for, and is playing the long con until he can get his claws on it.
- Rakshasa is using the guild as a stepping stone for greater political power in a surrounding/nearby municipality or nation.
- Rakshasa is interested in a specific person with ties to the guild, such as the former guildmaster or their progeny.

Agreed with Toilet Cobra, your first step is deciding exactly what kind of guild it is, as that will determine your possibilities. A mage guild and a thieves'/assassins' guild will lead to very different campaign styles.

[Geddy2112]

Depends on the kind of guild. If it's a thieves' guild, it could be political or economic control, with the aim of placing himself at the head of a mortal nation or just destroying one from within for the pleasure of it. Same could go for a guild of merchants.

Guild of sages/learned types/magic users, he could have some kind of eldritch goal ("Get the king's magic scepter and summon the XXXXX") or maybe he wants to change the nation's attitude towards something magical (Like opening the country up to demon summoning or necromancy, in the hope of eventually plunging it into darkness). Lots of possibilities with that one, but generally I think a Rakshasa wants to improve its own station or cause destruction; rarely will they be the sub-boss of their own scheme but rather the apex evil. Though they may be manipulated themselves by a greater force.

I will say that you should try to resist the sort of predictable reveal. To make it more satisfying for the players, have them come to realize that there is more to the story over time, and don't slap them with a big plot-point where the evil villain escapes just as they realize what's going on.

Other than that, have fun! Sounds like a setup with some potential.

Seconded. Rakshasa's love being in charge and they want everyone to know it. A rakshasa guild leader would love the respect and adoration of their underlings and amassing more of this power and prestige is a fine goal. If there was anything competing against this guild or rakshasa being the top dog(or cat) then they would want that thing removed.

To let the players know that things are not on the level, piecemeal parts of the story in the missions. Maybe they realize they are the bad guys, or that what they saw when they got to place X is nothing like they were told, etc.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

Thank you for the replays, all of them are very helpful. the guild i believe is considered adventure guild with all types of mission, so i got to decide on why the Rakshasa would be the guild master of one.

[Toilet Cobra]

Thank you for the replays, all of them are very helpful. the guild i believe is considered adventure guild with all types of mission, so i got to decide on why the Rakshasa would be the guild master of one.

Adventurers make excellent minions. For a nominal fee and salvage rights, you can have them raid anything you like. They have a variety of strengths and can be heroes of the common folk, which is a handy cover for an ultimately evil operation. With just a handful of adventurers on your payroll you can basically accomplish anything, the only trick is not letting them get so powerful you can no longer afford them.

Plus your Rakshasa will probably take a special pleasure in being the boss of the people who would otherwise be trying to take him down. He'll know all their strengths and weaknesses in case they ever turn on him, and he can tell his (still loyal) adventurers "Hey, this team of our former comrades has gone rogue! I bet they've been bought out by [other group]! Help me stop them!"

So really, why wouldn't he want to be the master of an adventurer's guild.

[Elder_Basilisk]

One thing you might (or might not) consider:

In fiction, it's traditional to start this kind of story with a different guild master who may or may not be fully on the level (and who could even be in the Rakshasa's pocket) but is not as bad as the Rakshasa. Then the guildmaster dies or retires under mysterious circumstances and the Rakshasa takes over. In some stories, his villainy is immediately apparent, in others, he seems like exactly the young, charismatic, bold and principled (but not too principled--there needs to be some foreshadowing) leader that the guild needs and it is only as he "grows" in office that his true nature becomes apparent. Either way, eventually the heroes realize that the new guildmaster is playing them and go after him.

Doing it this way serves a several narrative purposes:
1. It separates the institution from the corrupt guildmaster giving the viewer/reader/player a reason to want the guild to continue and be reformed rather than simply destroyed.
2. It provides dramatic conflict to the decision to finally turn against the guild because the guild actually had the protagonists' loyalties and they actually had reason to be loyal to it. Therefore turning against the loyalty is a decision fraught with more dramatic possibilities.
3. It creates the illusion that if only the protagonists or someone else had seen the problem earlier, they might have stopped it.
4. It enables the writer/DM to not give the endgame away initially and doesn't make the protagonists into chumps for not seeing that they were being played from the beginning. They weren't being played from the beginning.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

One thing you might (or might not) consider:

In fiction, it's traditional to start this kind of story with a different guild master who may or may not be fully on the level (and who could even be in the Rakshasa's pocket) but is not as bad as the Rakshasa. Then the guildmaster dies or retires under mysterious circumstances and the Rakshasa takes over. In some stories, his villainy is immediately apparent, in others, he seems like exactly the young, charismatic, bold and principled (but not too principled--there needs to be some foreshadowing) leader that the guild needs and it is only as he "grows" in office that his true nature becomes apparent. Either way, eventually the heroes realize that the new guildmaster is playing them and go after him.

Doing it this way serves a several narrative purposes:
1. It separates the institution from the corrupt guildmaster giving the viewer/reader/player a reason to want the guild to continue and be reformed rather than simply destroyed.
2. It provides dramatic conflict to the decision to finally turn against the guild because the guild actually had the protagonists' loyalties and they actually had reason to be loyal to it. Therefore turning against the loyalty is a decision fraught with more dramatic possibilities.
3. It creates the illusion that if only the protagonists or someone else had seen the problem earlier, they might have stopped it.
4. It enables the writer/DM to not give the endgame away initially and doesn't make the protagonists into chumps for not seeing that they were being played from the beginning. They weren't being played from the beginning.

this is very helpful. Thank you.

on a side note. i have been working on the Rakshasa and encountered a problem. when the Rakshasa uses its detect thoughts ability how can i prevent the player from becoming suspicious every time they make a will save.

[Honest Tiefling]

this is very helpful. Thank you.

on a side note. i have been working on the Rakshasa and encountered a problem. when the Rakshasa uses its detect thoughts ability how can i prevent the player from becoming suspicious every time they make a will save.

For the love of all that is unholy! Don't spam Detect Thoughts on people who can potentially detect it! Instead, use skills to determine more about them. Watch them. Befriend them. Even consider canoodling one if it furthers your goals. And don't forget, the most powerful way to gain an adventurers trust: FREE LOOT AND BOOZE. Besides, if the rival guild is also a guild of adventurers, they'll get anti-detection and protection from many spells pronto.

Consider having the rival guild try to steal something from the party. Their current Guildmaster (The Rakshasa) tries to help them get it back (or just get revenge, if the NPCs failed) by giving them some magical items.

[Elder_Basilisk]

this is very helpful. Thank you.

on a side note. i have been working on the Rakshasa and encountered a problem. when the Rakshasa uses its detect thoughts ability how can i prevent the player from becoming suspicious every time they make a will save.

1. Don't spam detect thoughts. Nine times out of ten, a halfway decent sense motive score is all you need.

2. If he does want to use detect thoughts, he should crank the DC and target it on characters that he knows to have a low will save and no spellcraft. He's the guildmaster, he should read reports and know who is vulnerable to will saves. Then, roll in secret. The players don't know they made a will save unless they actually succeed. Now it's possible that the PC might roll a natural 20 and make the save that one time that the Rakshasa actually needs to use it. There are two possibilities:
A. the PC says something out loud, right then and there.
B. the PC keeps that information to himself and tells his friends afterwards.

Either way, it doesn't matter, the Rakshasa has a response. He knows that the PC succeeded on the save because his detect thoughts didn't work. He also knows that the PC doesn't have spellcraft or has minimal spellcraft, so the PCs probably just know that the PC succeeded on a will save against some kind of magic. The Rakshasa needs to mislead the PCs about what kind of magic it was and who it originated from.

Fortunately, there is an easy scapegoat. What kind of magic is frequently expected by adventurers, would logically target low-will save characters, would ideally target characters when they are meeting with the guildmaster, and doesn't need its hostile caster to be visible to the PCs or even have line of sight/line of effect to them? Scrying, of course.

So the Rakshasa should lay the groundwork. The guildhouse should have some kind of imperfect defense against scrying. Perhaps there's a scry-proof meeting room. Guild rules should encourage characters to wear things like amulets of non-detection when they are in the guild. But those things are expensive and PCs will often ignore the rules. That's ideal.

So, if the PC says something, let the Rakshasa retreat fifteen feet away from any PC and cast detect scrying or summon the guild's anti-scrying expert. Or subtly indicate to the PCs to act as though nothing were wrong, wander out of range of the spell (to get a glass of water or something), then cast an illusion spell and tell the PCs, "even if they succeed on the next attempt we should be safe now."

If the PCs say nothing, the Rakshasa should have a backdated order or memo show up in the PCs' inbox saying something like, "several members of the guild have reportedly been subject to scrying recently. If you have felt your mind invaded with no visible spellcaster, contact the anti-scrying team for review. This is also a good time to review rules 14.56C and 17.85A of the guild charter and we will be stepping up enforcement of the non-detection requirement." The Rakshasa's henchmen should discuss "the morning's" memo in terms like "it was in my inbox when I woke up; what's up with this non-detection requirement--sounds like the expensive material component people just want to up their profits" so that it looks like the PCs just got their distribution late due to an interdepartment mail mixup rather than the Rakshasa backdating the memo.

The key is to provide a plausible alternate explanation and act like the Rakshasa believes it without looking like the explanation is ex post facto.

Oh, and the guild should also have privacy rules that prohibit walking around with detect magic, arcane sight, greater arcane sight, or detect alignment effects etc active. (We screen for evil/chaos/whatever when we recruit you, after that your deeds stand for themselves unless the guild includes evil members in which case, we know they're there, that's no reason to be rude to them). Sounds perfectly reasonable and has the side effect of making sure no one will directly see what the guildmaster is doing when and if he wants to use detect thoughts.

[Honest Tiefling]

Fortunately, there is an easy scapegoat. What kind of magic is frequently expected by adventurers, would logically target low-will save characters, would ideally target characters when they are meeting with the guildmaster, and doesn't need its hostile caster to be visible to the PCs or even have line of sight/line of effect to them? Scrying, of course.

So the Rakshasa should lay the groundwork. The guildhouse should have some kind of imperfect defense against scrying. Perhaps there's a scry-proof meeting room. Guild rules should encourage characters to wear things like amulets of non-detection when they are in the guild. But those things are expensive and PCs will often ignore the rules. That's ideal.

I suggest another spell that isn't scrying. Scrying produces a magical sensor, which is detectable by a DC 20 INT check. If someone rolls that and doesn't see the sensor, they might get a bit suspicious.

[Elder_Basilisk]

I suggest another spell that isn't scrying. Scrying produces a magical sensor, which is detectable by a DC 20 INT check. If someone rolls that and doesn't see the sensor, they might get a bit suspicious.

I would expect that scrying only creates the sensor if it actually works. On a successful save the caster doesn't get anything information so presumably there is no sensor to see. Since the PCs only have any reason to be suspicious on a successful save, they would not expect to see anything at that time. (Though the Rakshasa could scry on his own minions to give the PCs a chance to spot a scrying sensor if he really thought it necessary for someone to see a scrying sensor in order to sell the lie).

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm

"On a successful Will save, the scrying attempt simply fails."

However, that aside, are there any other spells that give will saves but do not require line of sight or line of effect and would effect normal PCs? (I suppose planar binding would work for a planescape campaign). What else could the Rakshasa pretend was happening? The Rakshasa would probably prefer to avoid everyone going to defcon 1--invisible/hidden foes present and casting spells at us--especially since the lack of any actual invisible spellcasters will be easier to discern than the absence of a scrying sensor.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

OK, so don't use detect thought.

So I have been Piecing the story together and this is what I got so far.

- the party will join the guild for a reason( let to be decided) and will be treated coldly by the current guild master (this is just how the current guild master is) they soon are befriended by the Rakshasa who is disguise as a friendly drunk man who use to be a adventure like them but failed too many time and had to quit. after a while the current guild master is kill by the Rakshasa minions and then the blame is shifted to the guild master son who would be next in command.
he then will convince the party the help him gain the position by promising them better rewards and stuff. he will then have the party do mission often that will require them to attain pledge allegiances to the guild and powerful magical items that he will "protect" from evil, this will mainly be done by defeating minion and problems that the Rakshasa created for the party so he can gain trust and resources for the guild, until he has enough power and wealth that he can even dethrone the king. every campaign session I will place hints that the party will have to piece together to discover the plot.

How does it sound, are there any adjustment that I should make.

[atemu1234]

Have the Rakshasa (dear god I hope I'm spelling that right) be hunting for an artifact (I'd suggest one of the swords from Tome of Battle, for simple flavor reasons) and use the party as pawns.

If they already know who he is, have him try to appeal to their better natures (I'm not evil, just misunderstood) or to their coinpurses (I'll pay well if you help).

This turns him into a quest-giver and then, eventually, a big bad.

[Elder_Basilisk]

OK, so don't use detect thought.

So I have been Piecing the story together and this is what I got so far.

- the party will join the guild for a reason( let to be decided) and will be treated coldly by the current guild master (this is just how the current guild master is) they soon are befriended by the Rakshasa who is disguise as a friendly drunk man who use to be a adventure like them but failed too many time and had to quit. after a while the current guild master is kill by the Rakshasa minions and then the blame is shifted to the guild master son who would be next in command.
he then will convince the party the help him gain the position by promising them better rewards and stuff. he will then have the party do mission often that will require them to attain pledge allegiances to the guild and powerful magical items that he will "protect" from evil, this will mainly be done by defeating minion and problems that the Rakshasa created for the party so he can gain trust and resources for the guild, until he has enough power and wealth that he can even dethrone the king. every campaign session I will place hints that the party will have to piece together to discover the plot.

How does it sound, are there any adjustment that I should make.

Friendly. good.

Drunk. Not terrible. Not great for inspiring confidence, but doesn't inspire suspicion either.

Failed too many times and had to quit. Bad. Why would the guild pick a loser for their leader. Better to let him have been crippled while saving his team from a mission that went sideways--especially if it looks like the guildmaster sold his team out. That way, he 1. has an understandable reason for the drinking problem. 2. Has a history that suggests he would be an appropriate guildmaster--he suffered to save his team. 3. Reinforces the idea that the current guildmaster is a problem.

Guildmaster murdered and blame placed on guildmaster's son/second in command. Good.

Promising them better rewards and stuff. What stuff? Reducing the guild's cut on contracts sounds good. What else would there be.

Defeating minions and problems the Rakshasa has created for the party? Why? That's just trouble. The Rakshasa doesn't have to be behind or even involved with everything. Why not have them solve real problems? Surely the world doesn't lack real problems to solve. That way the Rakshasa expends no resources or minions and still gain trust and resources for the guild. (This is analogous to one of the problems of Star Wars Episode I-III. The story would have been much better if the separatists and Count Dooku had actually been opposed to the emperor.)

[Honest Tiefling]

Have the Rakshasa (dear god I hope I'm spelling that right).

I'm dyslexic. I've given up hope on spelling that or Otyugh right.

I however, agree with Elder_Basilisk. Friendly is good, grossly incompetent isn't. Why would the drunk guy who wants to party suddenly be so good? Make him friendly, a bit prone to a nip here and there, but not drunk. He's from a wealthy family, most of which died in a tragic fire when he was young. Since adventurers brought the people who set the fire to justice, he's had a bit of a soft spot for them. He's come to feel like the adventurer's guild is his real family, and he remembers everyone's name and makes sure they have everything they need to come back alive. He might be over the hill, but his family name, wealth and connections throughout the city make him a vital asset for the guild.

He's so torn up about the Guildmaster dying, that man took him in! How could his son do that? He trusted that man! The guards would likely investigate such an issue, and too much tampering in such would only cast suspicion on the Rakshasa's persona. Therefore, he takes control of the guild while the guards do their thing, making sure everyone is still taken care of. Perhaps the Guildmaster left behind a grieving widow/widower...That he comforts. Maybe not romantically, but perhaps as a friend. Turning a parent against their own child, or even step parent would be quite amusing and would further cause people to rally against the son if even his own family turned against him.

Again, as the Elder_Basilisk said, the Rakshasa doesn't need to cause problems. If they have that much control, they wouldn't need this plan. There's plenty of people to kill and rob, and these problems could be seeds for the next arc.

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

Friendly. good.

Drunk. Not terrible. Not great for inspiring confidence, but doesn't inspire suspicion either.

Failed too many times and had to quit. Bad. Why would the guild pick a loser for their leader. Better to let him have been crippled while saving his team from a mission that went sideways--especially if it looks like the guildmaster sold his team out. That way, he 1. has an understandable reason for the drinking problem. 2. Has a history that suggests he would be an appropriate guildmaster--he suffered to save his team. 3. Reinforces the idea that the current guildmaster is a problem.
.)

Sorry. forgot to say the drunk was not set in stone, also trying to stay away from a cripple, my group recently watch TV show were the villain was disguise as a cripple, so the party is very likely to point fingers and start shouting "EVIL" as soon as they see him.


Defeating minions and problems the Rakshasa has created for the party? Why? That's just trouble. The Rakshasa doesn't have to be behind or even involved with everything. Why not have them solve real problems? Surely the world doesn't lack real problems to solve. That way the Rakshasa expends no resources or minions and still gain trust and resources for the guild. (This is analogous to one of the problems of Star Wars Episode I-III. The story would have been much better if the separatists and Count Dooku had actually been opposed to the emperor.

He won't be behind every thing. The only time this will happen is when he really need a organization to pledge allegiance the guild, he will then cause a conflict that the players will solve which will make the organization thankful to the guild.