Finished advancing Nar Demonbinder... ok now what?

[magicalmagicman]

Seriously, Level 14 wizard/Nar Demonbinder, now what? No way to advance Nar Demonbinder casting anymore, attempting to advance wizard at this point is really, really sad (Hey I'm level 16! I can now cast 5th level spells! Yay!), so...

What to do? :(

[meemaas]

Ultimate Magus maybe? Keep pumping the Demon binder caster level while getting some extra wizard goodies. (Note:I can't remember if Nar Demon binder is spontaneous or not, so take that with a grain of salt if not.)

[magicalmagicman]

Ultimate Magus maybe? Keep pumping the Demon binder caster level while getting some extra wizard goodies. (Note:I can't remember if Nar Demon binder is spontaneous or not, so take that with a grain of salt if not.)

Holy s***! Am I reading this right? I can get Nar Demonbinder 1 at level 8, and then go full ultimate magus to advance both classes simultaneously!

[Flickerdart]

Holy s***! Am I reading this right? I can get Nar Demonbinder 1 at level 8, and then go full ultimate magus to advance both classes simultaneously!

Yes. Well, almost - you don't get +1 for both sides every level.

[magicalmagicman]

Eh... Nar Demonbinder really, really sucks. Horrendously.

1. No access to level 9 spells.
2. 1 SPELL PER DAY FOR LEVEL 8 SPELLS
3. Because it's CHA, its spell DC is gonna be absolutely pathetic. 14 CHA + Eagle's Splendor + Spell Focus: Conjuration = 23 will save DC for greater planar binding, and Pit Fiends have a +21, so you have a 5% chance of successfully calling one every day.

I was lured to Nar Demonbinder because it gets access to planar binding line of spells 1 level earlier but... this class is just too horrible at high levels.

[Zanos]

Nar Demonbinder is great if you're comfortable with Blasphemy(and variants) cheese.

[magicalmagicman]

Nar Demonbinder is great if you're comfortable with Blasphemy(and variants) cheese.

Could you elaborate? :D

[Zanos]

Could you elaborate? :D
Sure. Nar Demonbinder's Iminical Casting allows you to convert some spells to their alignment variants. Specifically it allows you to convert Blashphemy into holy word, word of chaos, or word of law. The Nar Demonbinders caster level is equal to "his demonbinder level plus his levels in one other spellcasting class of his choice."

If you use UM to dual advance your base caster class and Nar Demonbinder, you can cast any alignment variation of a blasphemy spell with a very high caster level, which allows no save. It's also pretty good for fueling the UM's metamagic class features.

[gogogome]

Sure. Nar Demonbinder's Iminical Casting allows you to convert some spells to their alignment variants. Specifically it allows you to convert Blashphemy into holy word, word of chaos, or word of law. The Nar Demonbinders caster level is equal to "his demonbinder level plus his levels in one other spellcasting class of his choice."

If you use UM to dual advance your base caster class and Nar Demonbinder, you can cast any alignment variation of a blasphemy spell with a very high caster level, which allows no save. It's also pretty good for fueling the UM's metamagic class features.

What's so great about blasphemy and such? 1 round daze...

Oh I see. you get +2 CL per UM level. Ok I guess that is good if you managed to hit that -5 threshold, but is it worth the cost of 4 wizard levels?

Hmm... I should be aware of such a powerful thing before my players try it on me. High CL for SR and no save seems very powerful.

[Deadline]

Hmm... I should be aware of such a powerful thing before my players try it on me. High CL for SR and no save seems very powerful.

There's a super easy counter. Blasphemy and their ilk require the victim to hear it. Anyone who is deaf, or within the area of a silence spell are completely unaffected.

[gogogome]

There's a super easy counter. Blasphemy and their ilk require the victim to hear it. Anyone who is deaf, or within the area of a silence spell are completely unaffected.

I'm usually against reforming my world to counter my player's strategies, though if the NPC knows about my player's strategies, then its fine, but that hardly ever happens until near the end, where they are facing off against the leader of some organization who has the power to arrange such counters.

[Sword-Geass]

Throw in master spellthief and your holy word/blasphemy/what ever is nigh unresistable.

[Deadline]

I'm usually against reforming my world to counter my player's strategies, though if the NPC knows about my player's strategies, then its fine, but that hardly ever happens until near the end, where they are facing off against the leader of some organization who has the power to arrange such counters.

Well, Silence is a great low-level protection from spellcasters in general, so I'm not sure you could say it is countering the players specifically. Also, Blasphemy and the Word spells aren't exactly that uncommon for their level either, so anyone who is familiar with them and has any idea that the party can and does use them should be prepared for it.

[Zanos]

There's a super easy counter. Blasphemy and their ilk require the victim to hear it. Anyone who is deaf, or within the area of a silence spell are completely unaffected.
That isn't technically true. Not being able to hear only provides immunity to mind-affecting sonic attacks. Silence might work since it specifies that it "provides a defense against sonic...attacks", but that doesn't really go into detail as to what a defense means.

Blasphemy is great with a high CL because it's a No Save, Mostly No Immunity kill spell.

[atemu1234]

Well, Silence is a great low-level protection from spellcasters in general, so I'm not sure you could say it is countering the players specifically. Also, Blasphemy and the Word spells aren't exactly that uncommon for their level either, so anyone who is familiar with them and has any idea that the party can and does use them should be prepared for it.

All I know is I've killed at least two party members with it before.

(At the same time - it was a good game)

[Deadline]

That isn't technically true. Not being able to hear only provides immunity to mind-affecting sonic attacks. Silence might work since it specifies that it "provides a defense against sonic...attacks", but that doesn't really go into detail as to what a defense means.

Blasphemy is great with a high CL because it's a No Save, Mostly No Immunity kill spell.

It's in both the Silence spell description and the Blasphemy spell description. The only part of Blasphemy that Silence doesn't protect against is the banishment part.