Character Creation Help

[DracoKnight]

So, I realize that this isn't the optimal race/class combo, but I'm seeking help optimizing a dragonborn cleric from the ground up: stats, background, domain, feats, etc...

I call upon the mighty powers of my warlock patron, the Giant in the Playground!

[Inevitability]

Your specifications are awfully broad: could you at least tell us what kind of cleric you want to play? Ranged, melee, primary caster, healbot?

[DracoKnight]

Your specifications are awfully broad: could you at least tell us what kind of cleric you want to play? Ranged, melee, primary caster, healbot?

Melee mostly, with healing and buffing if possible. He's going to worship Bahamut, and the DM said that whatever domain I build him as will be added to Bahamut's portfolio.

[Dimcair]

I assume your first ASI will then go down for the war-caster feat to keep those buffs up and running or maybe the proficiency in con saves, to balance out an uneven score with the +1.
Then str>con=wis is what I would pick. Since we are mostly buffing ourselves and our allies we don't need a big wis modifier.

Are you opposed to the War domain? It nets you proficiency with martial weapons and heavy armor, and has some other neat features.

[DracoKnight]

I assume your first ASI will then go down for the war-caster feat to keep those buffs up and running or maybe the proficiency in con saves, to balance out an uneven score with the +1.
Then str>con=wis is what I would pick. Since we are mostly buffing ourselves and our allies we don't need a big wis modifier.

Are you opposed to the War domain? It nets you proficiency with martial weapons and heavy armor, and has some other neat features.

I am open to all domains, I am not drawn to any one of them in particular (I enjoy playing all of them...except for Life and Knowledge)

[Herobizkit]

Tempest is nice and sexy with all of its lightning-themed abilities. Bonus points if you're a Dragonborn whose color goes with Lightning (Blue and Bronze?).

Tempest gets you all armor and weapon proficiencies, a power to zap enemies who hit you as a reaction, and the Divine power to maximize your lightning damage all within the first three levels.

Also, you get thunderwave as an auto-prepped spell. :)

[Dimcair]

I am open to all domains, I am not drawn to any one of them in particular (I enjoy playing all of them...except for Life and Knowledge)

In that case I'd go war (It is also one of Bahamut's actual domains).

I assume you will be using point buy?

14 10 15 9 14 9 -> has an odd con stat, would be my choice for going with a two-handed weapon and resilient. After 4th level it looks like this 16 10 16 9 14 9.
15 10 15 8 14 8 -> two odd scores, but will be nice at level 8. This includes wielding a shield and war-caster at lvl 4.
15 10 15 10 12 9 -> We don't really need wisdom, so dumping it down to 12 can be an alternative for having no negative modifier. Lvl 8:

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I am open to all domains, I am not drawn to any one of them in particular (I enjoy playing all of them...except for Life and Knowledge)

War domain would seem the logical choice then - other than Life, it's the only weapon-oriented domain that really fits with Bahamut (incidentally, Life and War are the big B's recommended domains), and it is obviously designed for making a fighty cleric.

Incidentally, are you set on being a cleric? Your desires seem to be placing more of an emphasis on the hurting than the healing, and if you want a religious bruiser, I might argue that Paladin or Monk might be better fitted. I'm not trying to put you off cleric by any means, it's a perfectly good class, but even a War Cleric is a warrior second and a caster/support character first.

If you are set on cleric, then this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374604-The-Devout-and-the-Dead-a-guide-to-Clerics) might be of help.

[Dimcair]

Incidentally, are you set on being a cleric? Your desires seem to be placing more of an emphasis on the hurting than the healing, and if you want a religious bruiser, I might argue that Paladin or Monk might be better fitted. I'm not trying to put you off cleric by any means, it's a perfectly good class, but even a War Cleric is a warrior second and a caster/support character first.


Indeed, since you are mostly limited to one concentration spell at a time you might not need that much choice anyways. Paladin spell lists have some of the buffing spells you might want and they are much more able to dish out the pain with a sword.

[Gtdead]

With this race, I'd urge you to forget any complex build and go Death domain. Any melee cleric build requires heavy feat investment. Without vhuman it will take too long to increase your attributes. Staying at 15 wis is bad, no matter if you want a melee character.

Start with 17 str, 15 wis, and get a +1 on both at lvl 4. Assuming that you will be able to take short rest once per day, by lvl 6 you will be able to use your CD more times than War Priest or Wrath of the Storm. Also CD is reliable damage. It works like a smite. If your attack hits, you add it. It can't go to waste.

Another idea would be to go Arcana cleric, grab warcaster at lvl 8, then make use of command -> Attack of Opportunity booming blade. At lvl 11 you will be able to do 45~ dmg with this combo+SW, which is more efficient than your upcasted damage spells but it requires multiple rolls.

[Dimcair]

Staying at 15 wis is bad.

I am intrigued, why is that?

[R.Shackleford]

Bronze Dragonborn Tempest Cleric 15/Swashbuckler Rogue 5 Sailor

Starting Ability Scores

Str: 15
Dex: 13
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 14
Cha: 14

Cleric 4 gives you +1 Str/Dex. You won't need to add to these anymore.

Rogue 2, 4, or 5 gives you athletics expertise and a feat, shield master is your choice.

Boost your wis if you want to use more offensive spells but you really don't need to go higher than 16 or 18 if you stick with AoE spells.

All other ASI can be feats (warcaster/magic initiate) or ASI boosts.

Now you can focus on the cleric side or the rogue side. That is up to you. I would stay Cleric 4 and go Rogue 16 for stabby stabby fun time.

[Giant2005]

If melee damage is your thing, I would second the Death Cleric. No other Cleric type excels in melee damage as much as the Death Cleric.
The problem is, that if you want decent DPR you are going to want to be casting Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians too, which means you will need to raise both an offensive ability (Str/Dex) as well as Wisdom. It is very tight on stats considering you will also want to be spending a feat on Magic Initiate for Booming Blade.
Converting some more of those spell slots to damage would also be an asset, which means 2 levels of Paladin for Smite (and a minimum of 13 Cha, which might actually make you feel better about that otherwise wasted Cha bonus of the Dragonborn). If Paladin is going to be an option, then you definitely want to take it at first level for the Heavy Armor proficiency. The problem is, if you are using point buy it will take 5 ASIs to get the feat and cap both Str and Cha - that isn't possible if you are taking two levels of Paladin. That means you are going to have to ignore the feat and take a level of Sorcerer/Warlock in order to get Booming Blade, but that is okay and perhaps even opportune because Warlock also brings Armor of Agathys to the table. Armor of Agathys is exceptionally valuable on a build that is only two levels shy of maximum spell slots and that goes triply so for a Cleric that is sticky as hell due to Spirit Guardians and Booming Blade.

If you are using point buy, start as a Paladin with 17 Str, 8 Dex, 12 Con 8 Int,, 15 Wis, and 14 Cha.
Take the next 4 levels of Cleric and increase both your Str and Wis.
Take the next level of Warlock and be sure to take both Booming Blade and Armor of Agathys as spell choices.
Take 4 more levels of Cleric and cap your Str.
Take a second level of Paladin.
Take 4 more levels of Cleric and raise Wis to 18.
Take 4 more levels of Cleric and cap your Wis.
Take your final level of Cleric.

[Gtdead]

I am intrigued, why is that?

There is no chance that a cleric can support a martial Melee build at higher levels. It may work up to 8-9, but he lacks durability and his melee attack just doesn't scale. If he wants to maximize his output, he needs his spiritual weapon, his spirit guardians.

These abilities key off WIS. Even a dedicated melee build will see more benefit from boosting WIS rather than STR.

Also at higher levels he gets really campaign altering stuff. Things like hallow, holy aura, divine word. All of these key of wisdom. This 15% extra chance of enemies failing their checks is huge when you consider the range of these spells and how many potential enemies they can affect.

[Specter]

STATS: WIS>STR>CON>CHA>INT=DEX.
BACKGROUND: Anything that makes sense to you thematically is good. If you're a churchworm, Acolyte, otherwise I'd recommend Soldier or Outlander.
DOMAIN: If you want to bring the pain, as you should, War. If you want to heal everyone and yourself, Life. If you want to blast the infidels, Light.
FEATS: War Caster lets you use a shield and still cast spells. Alert allows you to never be surprised and boosts your lame initiative. Elemental Adept, if you went for Light Domain, lets you blast better.

[DracoKnight]

Okay, so I got some more info from the DM about how stats are working, and I figured out the background I'm and some of my basic backstory.

Stats are a DM-made standard array that everyone is using: 18, 17, 16, 15, 13, 11.

And my backstory is that I was a soldier who was drafted into the army by a tyrannical noble, and I was horrified (not by combat itself) by war - the mindless slaughter in service of those who care nothing for your life. (Fighting for my friends is something different entirely)

So I'm thinking that I'll use the following spread:

STR 20 (18 + racials)
DEX 15
CON 16
INT 11
WIS 17
CHA 14 (13 + racial)

Still looking at domains, but I've narrowed it to War, Death, Arcana, and Tempest. And still looking at feats, as well.

The campaign is going to start at level 1, and there's no multi classing, with only Wizard, Fighter, Cleric, and Rogue allowed as playable classes (1 class for each player). The campaign is heroic high-fantasy political intrigue building up to an epic war (between undisclosed entities).

All 9 published domains are allowed.

[Giant2005]

Firstly, I'd like to express my disdain for your DM. Sticking all of those odd numbers in his array flares up my OCD like nothing else. Everyone hates odd numbers, sticking them in there is just cruel!

Secondly, if there isn't any multiclassing, then there isn't much to discuss. The Death Cleric is the best melee damage Cleric there is, so the decision is made. Just make sure you take Magic Initiate in order to pick up Booming Blade.
I would also consider switching around your stats a little bit.
Unless you want to increase your Dex to 16 at some point, you have an odd stat that you are going to need to even out via a half feat. The half-feats for Str are better than your options for Wisdom, so you should make Wisdom the even score and Str the odd score.

[JNAProductions]

Have you thought about Nature? Use Shillegah to whack people with a Philosophy Stick! (And makes you Wisdom SAD.)

[R.Shackleford]

Have you thought about Nature? Use Shillegah to whack people with a Philosophy Stick! (And makes you Wisdom SAD.)

Grab this and Thorn Whip for lots of fun.

[Giant2005]

Have you thought about Nature? Use Shillegah to whack people with a Philosophy Stick! (And makes you Wisdom SAD.)

When you have such high stats Shillelagh becomes more of a detriment than anything. It doesn't help so much when you can max your stats fairly quickly anyway - all it does is pointlessly restrict your weapons, consume a bonus action, and make it more difficult to unload your combat spells as fast (by being unable to use a normal action spell on the same turn that you cast a bonus action spell).

[JNAProductions]

Actually, you can still cast a regular spell when you Shillegah as a bonus action. It's a mere cantrip.

[Giant2005]

Actually, you can still cast a regular spell when you Shillegah as a bonus action. It's a mere cantrip.

Cantrips are still subjected to the rules of spellcasting.

[Hrugner]

I think you'd be better off going arcana and grabbing shilieilgielgiehgei through a feat later on if you wanted to focus on wisdom completely. Getting those wizard attack cantrips would be much more stylish than nature's offerings. Then you can grab good berries as well which would be a useful way to extend spellbreaker's effectiveness (clearing hex through a berry mostly).

[JNAProductions]

Cantrips are still subjected to the rules of spellcasting.

Hm. Grabbed my PHB, checked page 202, turns out you're right. Strict RAW says if you cast a spell, even a cantrip, as a bonus action, you can only cast cantrips with your main action.

That being said, ask your DM, since I imagine many would allow it.