Your spins on races [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Vrock_Summoner

2016-05-05, 02:21 AM

Oooooh... You've opened to me my candyland. I just adore any excuse to talk about my Incarnum setting, especially the races.

So there aren't even "normal" humans in this setting anymore, only their azurin offshoot, because the general racism and superstition common to humans meant they blamed the few natural-born azurins for their problems and tried to genocide them, which didn't really work out in their favor since the azurins had much stronger Incarnum at their disposal. Eventually they figured out how to make it so all human souls passed through high concentrations of magical power on the way to their bodies (by sacrificing a lot of normal humans for a huge effect >_>) so all new humans would be born azurin, and the regular humans went extinct.

For that matter, humans are also weird in my setting for being the first/original race, existing before any of the other humanoids, and being technically (if extremely indirectly in some cases) responsible for all the other races coming to be. Usually it's the elves or dwarves being ancient, but nope.

Elves are actually an offshoot of humanity. Some humans tried to do a variant of the aforementioned "ritual of making everyone azurin" to fuse their souls into their physical flesh to achieve immortality and great power. It only half-worked, leaving them with greater Incarnum power and drastically slowed aging but way higher susceptibility to becoming Lost (basically feral, evil, possessed by tainted Incarnum energy that bound to one of their negative emotions) and incomplete souls. When elves are born, the souls of their ancestors, who are crazy from the feeling of living incomplete lives, bind themselves to the infant, spreading their mental maturation and learning among the multiple minds inhabiting the body, resulting in the main host's mind maturing at a rate roughly proportionate to their physical aging; in other words, ancient elves near the ends of their much longer lives aren't typically more mature or wise than humans at the ends of theirs.

Elves and azurins are the only race that can cross-breed, given their shared heritage, but the birth of half-elves is disliked intensely by both races even when they're working together in harmony without racial tensions since half-elves are fairly miserable and dangerous existences. They have soul fused bodies like the elves combined with the intense, unfragmented passionate souls of azurins, so emotions have much more control over how much power they can show than for most of the Incarnum races, and they're overwhelmingly emotional. Like, the most strictly disciplined and stoic half-elf can only really train down to "wild human" levels, since they're so explosively emotional at base, and this makes them both very susceptible to becoming Lost and way more powerful and dangerous if they do so. Even those who don't become Lost are so emotional and sensitive that they'll often end up either outright insane, dead, or with a whole host of mental disorders related to their intense emotional expression. Those who do manage to reign themselves in somewhat, however, have potential to be the strongest Incarnum-users in the setting, with many of each race's advantages and few of the weaknesses.

Dwarves are basically a failed experiment of the evil earth gods (who, I feel I should mention now, are actually the ascended Incarnate-emperors of a fallen azurin empire) who were trying to create soulless vessels for themselves to possess to play more of a role in the physical world, but since Incarnum is literally the energy of souls, any body they made strong enough to survive their possession ended up developing sentience and resisting possession. So the project was scrapped and the dwarves left to join the surface world. However, while they're sentient and possess personalities, they don't technically have souls in the sense of the autonomous spiritual construct all the other races have, and their soul energy just sort of bleeds back into the world when they die. This does, however, make them the only race that can craft supernatural items, since they can take their unshaped soul power and put bits of it in items, where other races can't just detach parts of their soul when they feel like it.

Gnomes came about when some elves, trying to follow in the footsteps of the evil earth gods and ascend to godhood through the sacrifice of existing gods (long story), cut off the hand of the evil earth god known as the Fixer. (For what it's worth, they succeeded, and became the only arguably benevolent godlike beings in the setting.) While they harvested the flesh and blood for the ritual, the bones and tendons animated into the first gnomes, making them effectively bone elementals (and they look the part, being wide-set, pale, hairless) but with actual souls unlike the dwarves. Gnomes in my setting, despite no longer remembering their heritage after so many generations, have a supernatural aptitude for fixing things, mending and improving mundane swords with a couple of hours of what looks like nonsense but works, and even fixing broken supernatural items with enough time and effort.

Finally, there are the mishtai, which are my envisioning of the progenitor race of the rilkans and skarns from the Magic of Incarnum book. They were created during a huge world-shaking war by desperate humans binding Souleaters to their spirits. This made them scaly and spiny and gave them a host of traits and abilities, from being able to absorb soul energy with their spines and use it to strengthen said spines to giving them a sort of limited hive mind through which to share knowledge. In exchange though, they're rather bad at using Incarnum themselves compared to the other races, and susceptible to occasional psychic disruption through their hive link which can mess them up something fierce.

I put a lot of thought into these guys, mostly with the goal of deconstructing and justifying the tropes associated with many of the races. In case that wasn't clear. :3

Yora

2016-05-05, 03:31 AM

I merged gnomes and goblins and gave them the dwarf cities to inhabit. They are serious and disciplined, but they know they can't beat anyone in a fair one on one fight, so they always play as dirty as possible. Attacking their towns is Subterranean Fantasy F****** Vietnam. SFFV is their entire military doctrine. They hire Tucker's Kobolds as defense consultants.
They also do the same thing when trading or negotiating. They will sign or swear anything to get out of a dangerous situation, but that's only to buy time to improve fortifications and get reinforcements.
Other than that, they are very friendly and polite people. Though they also stay friendly and polite even when they have already decided that you will have to be eliminated.

Since the last main revision of the setting, humans aren't really in it anymore. Instead the last two human peoples I had left are now a lot more like goliaths. The main group lives in mountains similar to various Himalaya peoples. They are the least technologically sophisticated and mostly neolithic. (Though they have bronze blades traded or taken from others.) Some of them have decided that living as goat herders in the mountains isn't such a great life now that the lowlands are no longer being controlled by the naga and fair folk. They created a philosophy that renounces clan structures and relying on spirits as guardian deities and instead promotes mastering your craft and sharing your skills for the benefit of the community. They don't care where anyone is from and take everyone who wants to live by their rules. And they are doing quite well and in times of peace their warriors go to the lowlands to work as mercenaries to keep practicing their skills. But a few decades ago one of the warrior leaders decided that he's not leading his company back to the mountains to share their wages with the villagers, but instead establish their communities in the lowlands and work as mercenaries full time. And at some point they realized that they don't need to wait for a war where they can work as mercenaries and get paid in lood. They could just go raiding on their own initiative. They are a bit like Normans, Sohei, or Mandalorians. The traditionalists in the mountains hate that these mercenary raiders misuse their good name, but there's little they can do about it.
Another smaller group has migrated far north to a land of rocky hills, swampy marshes, and lots of fog. The original clans somehow had seriously angered some gods and fled all the way to this desolate land whose strange supernatural energies are somehow protecting them. Instead of shamans they have witches who have shady deals with the weird spirits of the swamps. They are the scary hill people from the land where nobody goes,

cavalieredraghi

2016-05-05, 04:34 AM

I feel like the elitism, longevity, and low birth rate of high elves is a great opportunity for a master-slave culture, with humans as the short-lived slave race, and make half-elves sterile, taboo, hybrid, bastard rarities.

Now I'm riffing...

Using proud orc tribespeople as the original material, high elf magic refined humans into a more docile, servile species (which is why half-orcs are possible and breed true).

Dragonborn were likewise made by dragons to serve them. Which is where the elves got the idea.

Dwarves reproduce asexually by fusing with large rock and turning into an egg-like thing that births two new dwarves.

After some humans escaped elven slavery they spread like crazy and now the elves regret creating them. The humans rejected the gods of the elves. Some adopted other races gods. Those humans without gods had an absence in their souls that could be felt on the Outer Planes, which called new gods' attention to the world, and became the human gods. Some of these "gods" are demons, and some are legit gods but want more influence in this world new to their power, already owned by powerful elven, dragon, dwarves, and orcish gods, hence a significant population of tieflings and aasimar.

Original races, created by gods: Dragons, elves, dwarves, orcs.
Servile races, created by original races: dragonborn, humans
Mixed races: Half-orcs and half-elves, with humans, and tieflings and aasimar

No halflings or gnomes or elf variants unless I can figure out how they fit into the cosmology/history.

Gnomes could be an original race as well similar to dwarves thanks to the Sverbiflin. However out shots were made that gave way to the above ground Gnome and a variant that was slightly larger and more servile race possibly a mix of Gnome and human, the Halfling. Halflings after all live shorter lives then gnomes but longer then humans. just the beginnings of a possible thought process.

HappyElf

2016-05-05, 05:16 AM

I quite like describing dwarves as actual underground creatures- that is, eyeless pale worm-like things. Even if you keep the rest of the fluff the same, it's amazing how differently players react to a gruff, beer-swilling, forge-tending humanoid-cave-fish thing

Some other ideas I have come up with but never actually implemented included having halflings actually look exactly like human children, in a kind of cuckoo sort of way, mechanical gremlin-like gnomes (if you are going steampunk for gnomes, might as well go all out) and the orcs being the human equivalent of the drow.

Everyl

2016-05-05, 07:21 AM

A few racial twists that I came up with for a setting-in-progress:

Gnolls are fairly strict carnivores, and have to draw the vast majority of their nutrition from meat, fish, and/or dairy products. They never formed their own large cities due to the supply chain issues with feeding a sizable population who literally have the appetites of lions. There are smaller communities of gnolls who herd livestock or fish for a living, though.

Elven "subraces" are actually biological castes determined by the environment that the parents live in during the pregnancy. Warm, sunny environments lead to standard PHB elves, cooler, darker areas lead to drow-style elves, aquatic elves are born in or very close to the sea, and avariel are born only at very high altitude. Many elven communities are along the borders between climate regions, which can lead to castes having different social implications in different regions - in one place, PHB elves may be mostly lower-class field workers while dark-skinned elves are the wealthy aristocrats who spend their days indoors, while in another dark elves might be mostly poor miners while only PHB elves get to spend their days aboveground. Elves are also the only race in the setting that can produce Planetouched (aasimar/tieflings/genasi), which result if the parents spend way too much time traveling the planes.

Hobgoblins are all born female, but undergo a "second adolescence" in their 30s during which they become male. This has many effects on their culture and society, which are beyond the scope of this thread. For example, every male hobgoblin you meet is probably a mother and quite possibly also a father.

All of those are a result of asking the question, "What makes this race different enough that it should be its own race, rather than just an interesting regional culture of another race?" One of the goals is to have at least three distinct cultures for each race, because a minor pet peeve of mine in setting building is the conflation of race and culture. Unfortunately, I don't have much time for setting-building anymore, so I never got around to applying the principle to other races in the setting.

Shpadoinkle

2016-05-05, 07:28 AM

I haven't done much with the "core" races besides the following.

- No 800+ year lifespans for elves. I can't imagine that working in any practical sense. Elves should either be extinct or completely swarming the planet. In my games they top out at about 200 years.
-- Likewise, all the other long-live races have shorter lifespans. Dwarves tend to cap at 180, gnomes at 150, and halflings and half-elves at 120.

- Gnomes aren't pranksters like they're depicted in the 3.5e PHB, because I personally think that's stupid and annoying. Granted they enjoy a good prank, but then so does almost everyone. Instead they're largely librarians and researchers. There are plenty of gnome warriors, rogues, priests, druids, etc., but most gnome societies tend to regard scholars and scientists as being the most gnomish gnomes, in much the same way that dwarves consider warriors, miners, and smiths to be the dwarfiest dwarves.

- Orcs (and half-orcs) aren't "rampaging and rapacious marauders with no culture beyond 'crush, kill, destroy.'" Instead they tend to lean (slightly) more towards the 'noble savage' archetype, as plains-dwellers. They have a handful of permanent encampments where the injured and otherwise infirm reside, along with rotating groups of hunter/warriors for protection, but most adult orcs and half-orcs prefer to be hunting. They don't really care about what race you are, and not much about how you look, instead they place more weight on how you act. Prove yourself strong, reliable, and brave, and they'll regard you as an equal. The "marauder" niche is filled by things like gibberlings, ogres, and giants.

- Goblinoids tend to have highly organized and well-documented societies (based very loosely on the ancient Romans.) Goblins are the most numerous and are pretty much the gears and cogs that keep goblinoid society running- farmers, shopkeepers, carpenters, etc. Basically the "blue-collar" class. Hobgoblins make up maybe a quarter to a third of goblinoid society and are essentially the governing and "white-collar" types, like teachers and CEOs and such. Bugbears are fairly rare and almost exclusively military types, or something similar- gladiators, prizefighters, etc, but there's nothing stopping a bugbear from becoming a farmer or a diplomat or something if that's what they choose to do, but most tend to prefer taking advantage of their strength and size. Almost invariably, (in-game) legend will have it that hobgoblins invented bureaucracy, by the way.

Also, this doesn't really have anything to do with races, but I generally ignore alignments in game. Players never have to give their characters one (though they can if they want,) and (for instance) clerics of Good deities can cast Evil spells, but in this particular case they'd better have a damn good reason for it when their god asks them why they did it.

VoxRationis

2016-05-05, 08:10 AM

I've had...

A setting with faux-Minnesotan dwarves, elves who originally were desert nomads (I am of the opinion that the racial traits for elves fit desert creatures more than forest ones), and half-elves who were all from a single generation, when elves were enslaved by a human empire.

A setting where elves were immortal, including eternal youth, and therefore experienced rapid population growth unless they took radical steps to curb it. The base high elf culture practiced arranged wars between its settlements and communities simply to inflict casualties; others practiced infanticide, or had severe celibacy rules, or violent gang cultures.

Two settings where dwarves are obligate carnivores and drink beer in human lands because meat's expensive and they can't digest grain without fermentation. In one setting, a dwarven empire sprawls across the surface of half a continent, and is bit by bit eating away at a goblin civilization, now down to its last great city, whose struggles grow ever more desperate.

A setting where dwarves are famed growers of tea and high elves are the best brewers. Dragonborn are asexual worker drones that live to serve dragons, whose psychic whispers pervade their every waking moment; PC dragonborn are rare sociopaths who manage to survive the deaths of their masters without going either catatonic or into a berserker frenzy. Tieflings founded the predominant arcane tradition in human lands, but were overthrown by the setting's Roman Empire-analogue long ago, and are now persecuted wanderers whose hatred of humans is the only thing keeping them from the internecine infighting their demonic blood yearns for.

PersonMan

2016-05-05, 08:47 AM

A setting where elves were immortal, including eternal youth, and therefore experienced rapid population growth unless they took radical steps to curb it. The base high elf culture practiced arranged wars between its settlements and communities simply to inflict casualties; others practiced infanticide, or had severe celibacy rules, or violent gang cultures.

Wouldn't the natural result be a bunch of groups violently fighting over dwindling resources, without needing to arrange wars?

Deepbluediver

2016-05-05, 01:02 PM

What's your most creative take on a traditional race?

Personally I've never liked how hobbits and gnomes were characterized. I think either one would have been fine on their own, but most settings I've seen seem to play them very similarly. Somewhat mischievous or happy-go-lucky, small sized humanoids that hang around the bigger races and are tricksters or thieves 9 times out of 10 (I think another reply also mentioned this).
So when I had the chance to design my own setting, I knew right from the start that at least one of them was getting changed, and in the end I revamped both.

For gnomes, I can't take full credit, because the idea comes from my favorite fantasy novel. Rather than being sly tricksters they are in the PHB, Gnomes are world's default lawful-neutral race. The exact quote I based them on was "they would make a judge look like a court-jester". They are highly regimented and the idea of equal exchange and fairness is key to their society. They don't believe in doing favors or giving gifts, and they don't like being in someones debt unless a detailed contract accounting for every possibly situation was written out and signed ahead of time. For the ones that venture outside of the gnomish kingdoms this means they naturally gravitate towards being merchants and tradesmen.
It's maybe not the most exciting race, but one reason I really like it is that it's about 180 degrees from what most people are expecting. Plus I think it's fun to have a race that you can plug in almost anywhere that will act as a set of brakes on most D&D players chaotic-murder-hobo tendencies. I find that players complain about other plots a lot less after you make them spend 4 hours sorting out a contract dispute over last season's shipment of pear-brandy. :smallbiggrin:

And then there were the Halflings, which are about 90% my own invention. A lot of the other races in my setting (dwarves, elves, etc) were about what you'd expect, so I was trying to find another race that I could really change up. With Halfings I based them on this (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vF021oC-WM8/VAaozUd4u5I/AAAAAAAABz0/FjqcoFn_wY4/s1600/Gnome-Druid.jpg) series (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/cd/dd/65/cddd65adfc6d645052d795094bf679ba.jpg) of (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/af/ed/3a/afed3a1e11280330004a3f5ba1afbb12.jpg) pictures (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ff/56/ed/ff56eda4c065449097a0809a82cd6669.jpg), and went with "like humans, but half as tall and half as civilized". They inhabit dense jungles and live in elaborate tree-houses (http://www.amusingplanet.com/2012/10/the-tree-houses-of-korowai-tribe-of-new.html), and have a racial grudge against anything bigger than themselves. Which, being that they are halflings, include most other races, animals, trees, buildings, and geographic features. No pacifist, weed-smoking, hilldwellers here; you haven't lived until you've seen a knight in full plate armor fleeing for his life from an enraged 3-ft tall spear-chucking halfling.
Ironically one of the few other races that halfings get along with (relatively speaking) are goblins. A goblin's favorite military tactic is just send wave after wave of troops at an enemy until they get to tired to keep killing them and are eventually overrun. So the two races have bonded (sort-of) over their shared enthusiasm for making suicidal charges into certain-death just to kneecap one of the "big-folk".

Max_Killjoy

2016-05-05, 01:25 PM

For gnomes, I can't call it mine, because the idea was in my favorite fantasy novel. But rather than being sly tricksters they are the races setting's default lawful-neutral race. The exact quote was "they would make a judge look like a court-jester". They are highly regimented and the idea of equal exchange and fairness is key to their society. They don't believe in doing favors or giving gifts, and they don't like being in someones debt unless a detailed contract accounting for every possibly situation was written out and signed ahead of time. For the ones that venture outside of the gnomish kingdoms this means they naturally gravitate towards being merchants and tradesmen.

It's maybe not the most exciting race, but one reason I really like it is that it's about 180 degrees from what most people are expecting. Plus I think it's fun to have a race that you can plug in almost anywhere that will act as a set of brakes on most D&D players chaotic-murder-hobo tendencies. I find that players complain about other plots a lot less after you make them spend 4 hours sorting out a contract dispute over last seasons shipment of pear-brandy. :smallbiggrin:

"Paksworld"?

Knaight

2016-05-05, 01:41 PM

I know you're not allowed to share official pdfs but I don't know about homebrew ones.

You can share some official .pdf files, and can't share some homebrew. The rule is pretty much "If you have to buy it, don't distribute it for free".

Deepbluediver

2016-05-05, 01:43 PM

I decided to make a seperate post for this, because there are also several races that I redid in terms of background and stats to give players more options that weren't just a re-flavored variant of a standard race (dream gnomes, grey elves, various types of splatbook-inspired humans, I'm looking at you).

One group that I decided to add as a new race were the Tauren (Minotaurs for anyone who hasn't played WoW :smallsmile:). They are relatively rare but you can play one without special permission most of the time and they don't have LA, so players are more likely to pick them. Rather than hanging around in cold, dark dungeons the entire species has a serious case of wanderlust, spending most of them time ranging far and wide, rarely settling down for more than a few months at a time unless a place is particularly isolated. They are very much in tune with nature and the natural world, have an unerring sense of direction, can be very personable, and still manage to creep almost everyone else out. That's because the Tauren are cannibals, which in this setting means they eat the flesh of other sentient humanoids. Even the "evil" races don't go in for that aside from maybe a little ritualized blood-drinking; it's one of the few almost-universal taboos.
The friendlier Tauren see burial, cremation, and most funeral rights as a waste of resources, but will refrain from cannibalism (in the presence of others anyway) to avoid upsetting their companions. Unfriendly Tauren will actively hunt down and devour other humanoids. So yeah, they aren't going to be winning any racial popularity contests.

Another "new" race was the ogres. When I played WoW, the Ogres were very much in the "bumbling badguy" category, and all look like sumo-wrestlers. I sort of liked that (I don't make my setting take itself to seriously, as you might have guessed) but I also knew that was really REALLY different from how they are depicted in D&D, so I decided to split the bill on this one. Young ogres hang out in packs or small clans, rampaging about, attacking other races, eating, drinking, breeding (ugh) etc, the kind of things you'd expect from what are essentially ultra-violent teenagers. Around middle-age though, all ogres undergo a kind of menopause, where their bodyweight increases dramatically and they become much more sedentary and less sociable.
So older ogres usually separate themselves from their brethren, settle down, and find a bunch of smaller humanoids they can intimidate into doing errands and acting as slaves for them. They either bully a town to pay them protection money or just set up a small fort and send out raiding parties. In large cities, they tend to worm their way to the top of organized crime syndicates, with the sheer ferocity of their youth giving way to a kind of brute-cunning.

Finally (for the moment anyway), someone in my group wanted to play a catfolk. But I had read through the Races of the Wild book and I pretty much disliked it entirely. Whether it was the artwork or the mechanics or the racial descriptions, I don't think I was happy with more than a scant handful of ideas from the whole thing. So I decided to re-purpose the Rakshasa, which are normally a race of evil-outsiders; in my setting though they are just humanoids. In case you don't want to look it up, the Rakshasa are to tigers as Minotaurs are to cows, roughly.
I kept a lot of the evil-outsider influences, and decided the Rakshasa had a pathological need to be in charge, and that goes double when having to take order from others of their own race. They are smart, charismatic, and ambitious, but not very good at long-term planning. Where every Ogre wants to be Jabba the Hut, the Rakshasa are much more Tony Montoya. Along with chronic backstabbing disorder (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChronicBackstabbingDisorder) they get a healthy (haha) dose of paranoia, which means they spend a lot of time skulking around in the shadows, manipulating things from behind the scenes. It's sometimes a wonder that two Rakshasa can avoid clawing each others eyes out long enough to breed...which is why most Rakshasa cubs are the offspring of slaves. Yeah, they aren't the most fun race to hang around with, unless you're into that sort of thing.

Deepbluediver

2016-05-05, 01:52 PM

- No 800+ year lifespans for elves. I can't imagine that working in any practical sense. Elves should either be extinct or completely swarming the planet. In my games they top out at about 200 years.
The way I handled that in my setting is that it's just very difficult for Elves to get pregnant; some spend decades trying without success. And yes, that's a risky issue if the population ever goes through a bottleneck-type (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck) scenario, but right now the elves have a thriving culture (two actually, not counting the drow) and aren't very worried about it. Since the elves are mostly to proud to admit that there's some problem even their magic hasn't helped them solve, they mostly just play it off like it's no big deal.

Oh, and there's also no half-races, so the elves can't cheat and pop out a few half-elf rugrats instead.

Also, this doesn't really have anything to do with races, but I generally ignore alignments in game. Players never have to give their characters one (though they can if they want,) and (for instance) clerics of Good deities can cast Evil spells, but in this particular case they'd better have a damn good reason for it when their god asks them why they did it.
In my setting most species have a racial alignment which ties in to their culture, but it's not absolute. What I mean is, the larger a homogeneous group of a particular species you run in to, the more likely they are to fit their racial alignment and stereotype. However one of the most common reasons for setting out on a life of adventure is that you don't get along with anyone back at home, so any individual player or small group that the PCs run in to can be of any alignment they want to be. I feel like this is a nice compromise that still lets you say things like "be careful around goblins" without the party paladin needing to stab first and ask questions never.

"Paksworld"?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you've nailed it.

This is from the other thread that Belac93 linked, because I didn't want to risk being red-flagged for necroing it. (and I loved the suggestions for the dragon/kobold relationship and for how goblins are like a hive-species)

One thing I've always wanted to try is a world where the races have their general alignments flipped, but where their cultures are largely the same. In a 3.5 context. So Orcs would go from Always (or Almost Always, I don't recall) CE to LG, but they would still have a similar tribal culture, then I would try and see how much I could maintain of their existing culture and concept. The same sort of thing could be fun to do with all the races. So it would be trying to get as close as possible with one massive and significant difference.
That's an interesting take on things, but I'm not sure how some of the stuff would work out, if you were trying to be logical about it. When I was reworking each race's culture and history their alignment (and stat-bonuses) played heavily into how they developed. Sure a couple of +2s and -2s might not seem like much on a small scale, but over the centuries and millennial I figured that kind of light pressure could have dramatic effects. And a cultural tendency towards one alignment over another tends to figure heavily into that IMO, whether it was the cause of or caused by the race's history.

VoxRationis

2016-05-05, 05:27 PM

Wouldn't the natural result be a bunch of groups violently fighting over dwindling resources, without needing to arrange wars?

Sure, if they never bothered to plan things ahead. But by arranging perennial low-scale violence in a Flower War sort of fashion, they can keep the population low without damaging infrastructure, getting people's feelings hurt, or getting to the point of depleting their resources in the first place.

Max_Killjoy

2016-05-05, 05:43 PM

Sure, if they never bothered to plan things ahead. But by arranging perennial low-scale violence in a Flower War sort of fashion, they can keep the population low without damaging infrastructure, getting people's feelings hurt, or getting to the point of depleting their resources in the first place.

Sorry if I missed it in your writeup, kinda fuzzy today -- does their culture have a broad definition of "honor" and like to settle matters thereof with duels?

AtlasSniperman

2016-05-05, 06:15 PM

If we're talking about racial aging. I've gone and done these aging equations. Different races age at different rates.
I intend to do more but here are 4, all races die of old at age y=110

http://i.imgur.com/pZoECox.png

Max_Killjoy

2016-05-05, 07:51 PM

Most of the "races" in the setting of my WIP don't live dramatically longer than humans. No actual elves or dwarves or gnomes or such.

There's one race that's ageless but not truly immortal -- but they reproduce at a low rate and don't for the most part have a culture of conquest.

Yora

2016-05-06, 12:16 AM

I haven't done much with the "core" races besides the following.

All very reasonable for a more believable setting.

VoxRationis

2016-05-06, 07:23 AM

Sorry if I missed it in your writeup, kinda fuzzy today -- does their culture have a broad definition of "honor" and like to settle matters thereof with duels?

No, but a different elven culture does. A point of the setting was to make all the nonhuman races diverse in their own rights.

Belac93

2016-05-06, 09:01 AM

Well, in one of my settings, high elves are very militant, but have an insanely low reproduction and growth rate. So, it's actually likely that if they wait to fight a war for 100 years, their population will be only a few hundred more than it was when they started.

Genasi are inspired by depictions of Roma (gypsies) in literature.

Wood elves have high speed, good eyes, can hide in anything (including dust storms and thin grass), and don't need to sleep as much? Perfect savanna hunters.

These are some of them.

VoxRationis

2016-05-06, 01:20 PM

AuraTwilight

2016-05-06, 05:25 PM

In the beginning, the world was much like Earth. But there exists an interstellar magical empire called the Eld. They came to the Earth and combined their DNA with a population of humans, creating Elves. Their purpose for doing so is that Elves would research and develop magic, slowly terraforming Earth into a magical ecosystem. When it's ripe enough (when reality has fully eroded), the Eld will return and plunder it, as they've done many times. Nothing remains when they're done.

The Elves don't necessarily realize they're a servitor race, but a lot of their cultural flaws are genetically programmed in. They're not actually in touch with nature, don't believe any Elf that claims otherwise. Many such beautiful, harmonious forests are actually dead, taxidermied graveyards, magically animated through necromancy to keep the flowers always beautiful, the animals always tame and obedient. Elves are all borderline sociopaths to a man, with Adventurer Elves being a rare exception infected with 'humanity', some recessive gene busting their genetic programming.

Dwarves are essentially Earth Elementals; they're not born or raised; they're carved out of the rock fully formed. This is why you don't see Dwarf women and children (though Dwarves are capable of interbreeding). They are the Earth's response to the introduction of magic, creating an antibody race that will fight it at every turn. The mining and work of the Dwarves is to make more of their kind, and to plunder gems and gold that are inherently magically charged. While they make many a magic item with these tools, the Dwarf crafter knows a Power Word killswitch that will Disjunction it. Dungeons are, unfortunately, magic turning this against Mother Earth. Underground constructions where dwarves are defeated, magic permeates, and Monsters are spontaneously generated in a perversion of Dwarven birth.

Orcs are a failed attempt at creating Elves, which were allowed to persist because the Eld found it amusing. Though ugly and savage and violent to other races, within their private homes, sheltered from the sky, orcs can be sweet, loving, tender, artistic. Always in hushed whispers, for their religion, their genetic program, teaches them that the Gods hate their existence, and make them suffer for a laugh, and punish them for all perceived goods they create or experience. Only by being a terror to the other races, they believe, will the gods laugh hard enough to relent their cruelty for another day. There is no good afterlife; all orcs suffer eternally before the gods, they're taught.

Gnomes and Goblins are the same race, both of them fey (more on fey later). Gnomes are vegetarians, but if they eat too much meat, they mutate into a Goblin, a savage and insane creature. Unfortunately, Goblins can breed true. However, a Goblin can be turned into a Gnome if turns down a meal of meat for as many times as the Gnome ate meat.

Halflings are the crossbreed between Humans and Gnomes.

Dragons are magic incarnate, their lifecycles a sign of the Eld's plans. They'll know their fruit is ready for harvest when the planet becomes an entirely Dragon-dominated ecosystem. Dragons created Kobolds out of their own blood. Every drop of dragon blood has the chance to grow into a kobold. Dragonborn are modified Dragon eggs, meant to be a servitor race to lead the kobold masses.

Fairies are born of the Earth, much like Dwarves, but are it's attempt to directly weaponize magic. They spread the infection of magic, but in the benefit of the natural world, providing antibody to Elven advancement. All the fey exist, but few are exactly as in the Monster Manual. Pixies and the like are born from the dreams of children, and so have a child's understanding of the world and morality. They die if the child awakens, so most fairies kidnap children and put them into diabetic comas in the Feywild. Changelings are homunculi, and always grow up into Elves. Elves lacking the Eld Programming, which breeds true...

Dryads are exceptionally beautiful, but are attracted to uglier creatures. CHA 3 is like CHA 30 to them. All dryad children are half-dryads, which become full dryads when they find their soulmate plant and bind with it. They take lovers for the only things a tree can't provide: Sex and conversation. You'll never win their heart, however.

Doppelgangers are a homunculus made up of melting ten or more people together, creating a shapeshifting being with a weak sense of identity. Besides their ESP and appearance-warping, doppelgangers can meld together and divide to switch and share memories and personality traits, which is necessary to prevent Alzheimer's in their plasticine brains. Loss of identity is what all Doppelgangers fear, but inevitable. Doppelganger blood can be imbibed to allow non-doppelgangers to meld for the duration of the drug. Doppelganger pregnancies are rare as there's always a chance of the embryo being permanently absorbed, but when they are born the child is invariably a Changeling, even if it's the child of two Doppelgangers.

Illithids, Aboleths, and other Aberrations are from the Far Realms either directly or through descent. The incursion of the Far Realms is the ultimate outcome of Magic, and if the fruit is overripe, the Eld won't be able to harvest it. A planet slipping entirely into the Far Realms is essentially letting a fruit rot to the worms.

The Gods and all Outsiders are the products of faith and belief. However, they are culture-specific. There are Elven Angels of Pride, Dwarven Angels of Greed, Orc Demons of Charity and Love, and so forth.

Elementals are direct manifestations of the Earth's will without any filter. Genies are what happens when an Elemental gains it's own ego and personality.

The Undead arise for all the usual reasons. Dead Werewolves rise as Vampires.

If an Aasimar and a Tiefling have a child, it's a human. If an Angel and a Demon (or Devil, or what have you) have a child, you get an Eld...

Crusadr

2016-05-06, 10:37 PM

I've slowly been making changes to races for my homebrew world, like many of you I believe in differentiating the other races so they're their own unique races and not just humans in a different shape. One change I'm currently working on is how relationships work among the elves. What I've come up with is that the reason for their low birth rate is that they literally cannot produce offspring until they have found an actual soul mate. Humans, being the opportunistic scoundrels they are would have eventually learned of this facet of elven life and stolen the idea of soul mates and fate tying people together and used it to seduce their own potential mates.

Admiral Squish

2016-05-06, 11:11 PM

I've long been tempted to develop a world heavily based on the elements, but I never seem to have the time. Really dig into the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of the elements, you know?
The basic idea is that all living things are made of five elements. Air, earth, fire, water, and aether (magic, mind, that sorta stuff). Humans are made of a perfect of very-near-perfect mix of them all, but the other races have a little more of one or the other. Like, dwarves are more earthy, elves are more airy, orcs are more fiery... And then there are individuals that aren't balanced properly. Like, a dwarf that's even MORE earthy than other dwarves, with some limited elemental traits, or an orc that's literally hot-blooded. There was also an idea for a human variant that's still made of all the elements in balanced amounts, but they didn't mix properly, so they have earthy parts and fiery parts and airy parts and watery parts...

Also, I don't know if this counts as a thing about races, but I always really enjoy messing with languages when I come up with racial twists. Like, one kind of elves wrote elvish two distinct ways, there was shorthand used for most simple messages and longhand, a flowing, beautiful script, kinda like cursive meets kanji, that could convey tone and meaning far beyond the letters alone. Halflings had a sign language that outsiders were forbidden to learn, and could call upon a vast library of caravan-specific slang and references to make what they were saying completely unintelligable, even to fluent halfing speakers. Orcish had a lot of specific words relating to combat that don't have parallels in other languages, many of which can scale up for discussions of strategy, like, a word for a reckless attack that leaves the attacker open to a counter, a word for inviting an attack so it can be caught or countered, and words for fights with different numbers of sides involved.

Deepbluediver

2016-05-07, 10:46 AM

I've long been tempted to develop a world heavily based on the elements, but I never seem to have the time. Really dig into the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of the elements, you know?
The basic idea is that all living things are made of five elements. Air, earth, fire, water, and aeth/er (magic, mind, that sorta stuff). Humans are made of a perfect of very-near-perfect mix of them all, but the other races have a little more of one or the other. Like, dwarves are more earthy, elves are more airy, orcs are more fiery... And then there are individuals that aren't balanced properly. Like, a dwarf that's even MORE earthy than other dwarves, with some limited elemental traits, or an orc that's literally hot-blooded. There was also an idea for a human variant that's still made of all the elements in balanced amounts, but they didn't mix properly, so they have earthy parts and fiery parts and airy parts and watery parts...
Somthing that's interested me for a while is that not every culture identifies the same set of elements. The "Earth, Air, Water, Fire" thing is western, AFAIK, but eastern real-world cultures described the elements as Water, Wood, Earth, Metal, & Fire. And if I started going through every fantasy story I've ever read, several more pop up, Light, Void, the aether/energy/spirit one, or sometimes they'll break out ice and lightning as separate elements, etc.

I've never made a whole gameworld based on it, but I once did a little fantasy writing in a setting where there were eight elements that comprised creation, and like you said a metaphysical quality tied in to each:

Metal- compulsion
Stone- endurance
Wood- growth
Water-creation
Ice- manipulation
Air- adaptability
Lightning- destruction
Fire- reincarnation

shawnhcorey

2016-05-07, 11:05 AM

I've never made a whole gameworld based on it, but I once did a little fantasy writing in a setting where there were eight elements that comprised creation, and like you said a metaphysical quality tied in to each:

Metal- compulsion
Stone- endurance
Wood- growth
Water-creation
Ice- manipulation
Air- adaptability
Lightning- destruction
Fire- reincarnation

I was thinking of using the cardinal gems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_gem):

amethyst -- air (east)
ruby -- fire (south)
sapphire -- water (west)
emerald -- earth (north)
diamond -- spirit (up)

Admiral Squish

2016-05-07, 11:25 AM

The Glyphstone

2016-05-07, 11:38 AM

One of the major aspects of my magnum opus setting is rewriting or outright replacing all of the 'core' races to varying degrees, but off the top of my head:

-The dwarf-analogues are a race of genderless elementals who reproduce via collective budding. Their outermost layer is a thick layer of essentially dead stone, so they practice some relatively extreme forms of body modification to distinguish individuality.

-The elf-analogues are technically all human mutants, from exposure to large quantities of fey magic or descended from a parent who was. They're afflicted with a peculiar sort of compulsion/curse that leaves them constantly searching the world for new experiences and knowledge.

-The halfling-analogues have become aggressively carnivorous toad-people with severe emotional mood swings. They travel in large groups aboard huge ocean-going ships, and are fighting a secret war none of the land-dwellers know about against evil krakens.

Bohandas

2016-05-07, 06:21 PM

Not a core race but I think that Dromites (from the psionics handbook) would be ruled by dragons, outsiders, and fey disproportionately often (and also have disproportionate numbers of half-whatevers) due to the way that authority and reproduction interface in their ant-like society; like they'd seek them out because they're fitter

Deepbluediver

2016-05-07, 08:21 PM

I was thinking of using the cardinal gems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_gem):

amethyst -- air (east)
ruby -- fire (south)
sapphire -- water (west)
emerald -- earth (north)
diamond -- spirit (up)

Honestly, off all the various depictions of the 4/5/7/118 elements in many works of fiction, "Spirit/Aether/whatever-they-call-it" has always been my least favorite. To me it never felt like it fit right, in part because the other elements are tide in to the physical world and this last one just ... isn't. IMO if you want a force like that to be present in your make-believe fantasy world, then relate it to something else. I'm all for having untyped arcane energy, chi, souls, AND all that elemental stuff plus some more things floating around in a kind of fantasy-hodgepodge.

Lots of stories pick mainly one source of magical power and do really great things with it, but for a gameworld I much prefer the kitchen-sink approach.

I admit, I did consider other elemental groups, but I find the western one is the most broad and archetypal in my mind. Like, metal and wood are awesome elements, but they don't really abstract very will. But fire... fire is destruction, it's chaos, but it's also warmth and light and energy and change. If you really abstract the concepts of the elements down, you get some really interesting implications. Like, if you think about fire as 'heat', and consider that the movement of molecules is what allows every chemical reaction in the universe to take place, fire becomes the engine that literally drives everything in the universe.
Fair enough- I just wanted to do things a little different. Part of the in-universe explanation for why alchemists never succeeded in turning lead into gold was that they weren't playing with the full deck, exactly.

And have you already made the connection that the 4 western elements map pretty well onto the four states of matter?
Stone- Solid
Water- Liquid
Air- Gas
Fire- Plasma

I had an "ah-ha!" moment the first time someone pointed that out to me.

Grim Portent

2016-05-07, 08:22 PM

Currently I'm toying with a reimagining of dwarves along a line based on their origin in Scandinavian mythology.

In the original myth they originated as maggots living on a giant, so I took that idea and ran with it.

The dwarves I'm creating are a race of anthropoid invertebrate/vertebrate hybrids. Physically they stand 4.5 - 5 feet tall on average, have a sturdy but partial exoskeleton and a partial endoskeleton. Their 'beard' is a mass of hairlike antennae that is used to navigate in the pitch darkness of the underground by detecting airflow and scent, and is found on both males and females. Their limb and neck joints are articulated such that they can comfortably move around on two legs or four, in a fashion reminiscent of a human or brown cricket respectively.

Like real life cave creatures they largely feed off of organic detritus that passes down through cave systems. Eating various small fish, invertebrates and, nearer the surface, bats and plant roots, mushrooms and tubers. Until they began procuring food from surface dwellers their population was limited by food shortages.

They reproduce by laying a cluster of eggs that hatch into cannibalistic maggot like larvae, that gradually grow in size and pupate, emerging as full grown adults. In their larval stage they wander and feed on detritus and other similar sized organisms, including their siblings.

Once they mature they are able to speak their native tongue instinctively as it's a language largely derived from pheremones, bodily interactions and simple vocalisations. Their society is largely based around finding things of interest in their environs and leveraging them to gain social status. Metal ores and uncut gems are common among such items, though the highest social strata are the ones who have managed to acquire items from outside their society. Processed metals, cut gemstones, jewelry and all manner of other goods made by surface races (and expat dwarves) are valued highly as they largely lack the infrastructure to make such items in their caverns. In essence their society is based on the acquisition of wealth, with wealth being measured in abstract fashions.

Though lacking in technology themselves they rapidly adapted to surface technologies, using metals tools to expand and refine their domain, and even building some forges and foundries with the help of surfacers. Their highly sensitive antennae make them highly skilled at feeling variations in the grain of materials like wood, rock and gems, which in turn makes them more skilled at working with such materials than a human of similar experience. They shy away from forgework as the heat pains and injures their antennae, potentially blinding them and rendering them unable to smell.

When living on the surface they rapidly adapt to the prevalence of technologies their homelands are ill suited to. They are capable of most forms of work that don't risk their sensitive sensory organs, and are capable warriors, often fighting as mercenaries. Due to how different their physiology and reproduction is from most other races surface dwelling groups tend to be somewhat insular for fear of prejudice, grouping together into enclaves of their own kind within other communities.

Their religion, such as it is, is based around the veneration of the giant that they believe granted them sapience and humanoid form. According to their lore they descend from maggots that lived on the injured flesh of a mighty giant, wounded in battle, whose wounds were festering and poisoning his mind and blood. Lost in delirium from the poison he was unable to treat his injuries, but the maggots that devoured his necrotic flesh gradually cleaned his wounds and by extension cleared his mind of the poisoned fog that clouded it. In gratitude for this accidental service he worked might magic to warp the maggots into people so that they could lead lives of greater significance than that of mere insects.

shawnhcorey

2016-05-07, 08:31 PM

Honestly, off all the various depictions of the 4/5/7/118 elements in many works of fiction, "Spirit/Aether/whatever-they-call-it" has always been my least favorite. To me it never felt like it fit right, in part because the other elements are tide in to the physical world and this last one just ... isn't. IMO if you want a force like that to be present in your make-believe fantasy world, then relate it to something else. I'm all for having untyped arcane energy, chi, souls, AND all that elemental stuff plus some more things floating around in a kind of fantasy-hodgepodge.

OK, don't call it spirit. Call it anima (http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=animate&allowed_in_frame=0), as in "to endow with a particular spirit."

ThePurple

2016-05-07, 09:01 PM

And have you already made the connection that the 4 western elements map pretty well onto the four states of matter?
Stone- Solid
Water- Liquid
Air- Gas
Fire- Plasma

I had an "ah-ha!" moment the first time someone pointed that out to me.

I figured that out a number of years ago, but it always bothered me that, when you deal with certain materials, things start to break down.

Take ice, for example. In the "states of matter" paradigm, ice is actually more closely related to earth than it is to water because it's a solid, which doesn't really make much sense when you consider that ice is actually made of water (which could just be explained as really bad nomenclature). Lava would also be more closely related to water than to either earth *or* fire, which is even more counter-intuitive.

Of course, the counter-intuitive nature of such an "elemental" paradigm can actually be a pretty interesting way to mess with peoples' notions of the properties of the various elemental magicks. "Water elemental" spells are generally either healing or cold damage, in actuality, a damage focused "water" specialist would probably end up using fire (via lava) or acid (via, you know, acid) damage primarily; cold damage is still a possibility though (liquid hydrogen/helium). Healing magic would be more appropriate for an earth elemental magic too (since most of the damage to the human body is damage to the nominally solid parts, like bone, muscle, and skin, not the nominally liquid parts that make up most of our body weight, like blood).

This is a significant deviation from the whole question of race, however, so I'll end it there.

Belac93

2016-05-07, 09:42 PM

You know what? I'm bored right now, and have nothing better to do. I'm going to write up some stuff.

Dwarves are the spawn of dragons. While dragons sleep, they do not excrete or take in any substances. The explanation for this is that they consume the energy of things that they eat, which leads them to eat things such as wizards and other magical creatures. Generally, they leave non-magical things alone. So, when they sleep, the magic they have built up leaks out, slowly warping the rocks around them. It can take decades, but dwarves form eventually from the rock. A dwarf almost always has an alignment corresponding with the dragon that spawned it, but is more likely to tend towards lawfulness. Their lawfulness has made them inherently loyal towards the dragon that they were created from. While they can form from their own species, it is a lengthy and hard process requiring magic to complete.

Elves and Drow live up near the arctic. They have a joint society, where drow live on the surface during the winter months, and other elves in the summer. This allows drow to be able to live 24-7 in their time up top, and normal elves to do the same. Groups are organized in clans of about 2-4 families, and drow-elf marriage is common. The family who is living up top will bring food to the ones down below. Drow have a slightly higher standing in the society, for being willing to brave the cold, dark, and wet winters. However, elves are regarded as 'gifted,' for their ability to function decently in both winter and summer. During the times when there are normal length days and nights, everyone goes out at night, with normal elves, and even some brave drow, staying out until the sun rises. They often eat meat, but have also been adapted to be immune to the poisoned lichens and berries of their homeland.

Halflings were created by hags as a servitor race. They were originally human children, and became warped into savage, aged, and partially aquatic beings by hag magic. Some have escaped, and now breed true. They are almost entirely insectivores, but will eat pretty much anything that is put in front of them. Ghostwise halflings are first-generation halflings, the ones who have been personally warped by the hags. No one knows why they have telepathy, but it is a trait not passed on to their second and third generation children.

Admiral Squish

2016-05-07, 09:44 PM

In my crossroads setting, aether was a tangible presence in the world. It was kind of like air, but it was the medium through which magic flowed. It had patterns and currents that were sometimes predictable and sometimes not, and related to the regions humans gathered, so mapping it was kinda like mapping weather patterns or ocean currents. Different regions (called spirals) had lingering mystical differences, like, the old world regions had weaker magic due to a catastrophe, whereas magic was alive and well in the new world, and the great plains spiral that was haunted by a dead god that reanimated any intact corpse of appropriate size that was left alone for more than a few days. Spirals were also important because they determined where links could form (temporary and intermittent teleportation portals that could be activated by magic) and where the links could lead.
Still, I will admit, I'm not sure if I want to include the fifth element in my (still very hypothetical) setting, if only because I have no idea what an aether-based elemental or creature would look like. Maybe I'll just stick to four and have the fifth element be a sort of myth or unprovable theory.
I did hear about the connection between the four states of matter. It did kinda blow my mind when I first heard about it. Not sure if I'd use it in the setting, though, because it seems somehow wrong for lava to be considered under the umbrella of 'water'.

Speaking of elements, and getting slightly more on track. I once helped start a game where the players built up the world through the course of their adventures before the main storyline commenced, and one of the major features was that each cardinal direction was tied to an element, and if you kept going in a certain direction, after a certain point the world just sorta stopped being 'real' and started being more... elemental. It became an odd trait of the setting where one would just refer to directions as 'waterward' and 'fireward' and such. We did some cool stuff with the races in that setting.
One of the players was a member of a race that I can best describe as 'coral zerg vikings'. Basically, they're sort of a colony species, a kind of floating coral that grows humanoid 'drone' bodies to protect itself. The drones sort of sculpt the growing coral into warships that they sail across the seas, raiding other humanoid races for the goods they lack the capacity to make themselves.
Goblins were from the mangrove swamps of the earth-waterward corner of the map. They valued large families as a sign of not only personal fertility/virility, but also wealth and influence. So there was a lot of social pressure to form large families, and they had all sorts of rituals related to it. For example, children are born with only half a first name, and when they marry, they add their partner's onto the end of their own. So, Zeb marries Gul. Gul becomes Gul'Zeb, and Zeb becomed Zul'geb. They also tattoo a crest with their married name on one shoulder, and with each child they have, they tattoo black bands around the other arm, starting at the shoulder. More stripes, more children, greater social clout.
Orc were from the arctic wind-waterward corner of the map, and they were obligate carnivores, incapable of digesting plants. They were modeled on inuit cultures. One cultural quirk was the Pak'dan, the last kiss. The orcs believed life force was a finite, precious resource, one not to be wasted, and that the last breath of the dying carried the lion's share of that life force. So, when one's prey, enemy, or even friend was on the verge of death, the last kiss was the only honorable way to kill them. The orc would pin or lay the target down, expose the throat, and sink their tusks into it until they breathed their last. It allowed one to take in the essence of the fallen, to inherit their strength. Before giving the Pak'dan to a friend or ally, it was customary to ask for their unfinished business, and to use the life they gave you to complete it.
Also, dwarves had a massive, roman-themed subterranean empire, with an elemental pantheon composed of different aspects of each element. Like, there was a temple to hearthwarmer aspect of fire, and a different temple devoted to the wildfire aspect(founded by my paladin in the distant past. If you've ever read Guilded Age, think Frigg Akerfeldt, but with fire powers).

Deepbluediver

2016-05-08, 03:11 AM

OK, don't call it spirit. Call it anima (http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=animate&allowed_in_frame=0), as in "to endow with a particular spirit."
I appreciate the effort, but it doesn't really matter what it's called, it's what it does that just doesn't seem to mesh well with all the rest. It's like having a pair of sneakers, a set of combat boots, some stilettos, a pair of sandals .... and a tophat. It just doesn't fit the theme.
And I full admit this is my opinion and no one else's.

The TechnoGnome

2016-05-08, 04:36 AM

I've got a couple odd race changes for my in-progress homebrew setting, but since it's still in the early stages I'll only mention the one that stuck so far.

Gnomes are a race artificially created by the genasi empire that ruled my setting in the distant past. The genasi, who were incredibly powerful spell casters, enslaved an entire continent's worth of races, and when they couldn't find a race that fit what they wanted, they used magic to mutate an existing one to fill the role. Gnomes are the result of a group of them wanting a 'pet race' that could also do simple household tasks for them. So they basically took regular elves, shrunk them down, made them 'cuter', and altered their natural talents towards illusion magic so they could entertain them with parlor tricks that weren't actually dangerous. While a lot of genasi still kept elves around as a more refined servant/concubine race, gnomes had their own niche admirers who wanted something more 'family friendly', as the modifications made to gnomes supposedly made them less of a danger to children if they got 'feisty' and tried to rebel. Plus, they were just seen as adorable, so a lot of genasi kids wanted their own gnome the same way ours would want a puppy or a pony. :smalltongue:

Needless to say, the empire eventually fell to, among other things, widespread slave rebellions, but their past has colored modern gnome culture quite a bit. While most modern gnomes have accepted that they won't ever be elves again and see themselves as a unique race, they still share many traits with them, including their pride. They tend to get offended if anyone calls them 'cute' or similar things, and hate being looked down upon for their appearance and size. And while they still have a connection with nature, they also value their new knack for illusions, both to compensate for their weaknesses and to honor the memory of those distant ancestors who had used their new 'gifts' in order to sneak or deceive their way to freedom. Oh, and rather than being instinctual inventors, they tend to be very wary of people who decide to experiment with magic, and have a very defined sense of the 'right' and 'wrong' ways to use magic, which puts them at odds with the more curious high elves, who believe the ancient genasi empire may have been on to something with the whole 'magocracy' thing...

shawnhcorey

2016-05-08, 06:15 AM

I appreciate the effort, but it doesn't really matter what it's called, it's what it does that just doesn't seem to mesh well with all the rest. It's like having a pair of sneakers, a set of combat boots, some stilettos, a pair of sandals .... and a tophat. It just doesn't fit the theme.
And I full admit this is my opinion and no one else's.

In that case, fire doesn't fit the theme either. Fire is a process, just like life.

VoxRationis

2016-05-08, 08:41 AM

Admiral Squish

2016-05-08, 10:46 AM

I have an issue with the use of the classical elements as literal laws of a game setting, even in a fantasy world, and this is because on a surface level, everything still functions normally. A human under a setting or system with the classical elements functions just like a human with the chemical elements: they eat, they drink, they sleep, they have blood in a closed circulatory system, fire burns them (and this fact combined with their need for air and water kills any idea of humans being from equal parts of the elements), swords cut them, etc. Presumably, at the lowest level, a four-elements human has to function in a different way, but the place where they transition from this to the familiar biology is rarely made clear.

The idea would generally be that living things need all four elements to some degree, but an excess of them can still kill. An open flame can burn you, but you must remain warm or you'll freeze to death. You need to drink water, but you can still drown. Not sure how an excess of air could kill you, but...

Deepbluediver

2016-05-08, 12:24 PM

In that case, fire doesn't fit the theme either. Fire is a process, just like life.
Yes yes, I'm well aware that fire should be called "reactionals" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html) and all that, but it's still a common and relatively straightforward phenomenon. It's a physical (or chemical) process that actually exists- you can touch it (kind of) and feel it's effects. So it doesn't seem as different (IMO) from the other three as "spirit" does.

Not sure how an excess of air could kill you, but...
Look up "the bends" from scuba-diving. Or just "oxygen toxicity". Those are little less indirect or common than some of the other examples, but to much air can definitely do nasty things to your body.

Roxxy

2016-05-08, 01:44 PM

Well, for starters I made every race a variety of Human. Makes it easier to relate and explains crossbreeding, especially between certain races (Orc/Dwarf is common enough to effect the average height and build of Dwarves). I also gave every race the same average lifespan. I haven't had Elves live long in my worlds since I first played Dragon Age. Also from Dragon Age is my tendency to treat Elves poorly.

The closest race to Earth people is Orcs. Orcs are also the most numerous race by far, and hold the bulk of political power. They are pretty tough compared to other races. Used to be they'd hunt prey by jogging after it in the hot sun until it dropped from exhaustion, but that was before cable and pizza delivery were invented. Still, they are quick to adjust to strange new climates, possess remarkable stamina, and eat capsaicin for fun. That's why they are so numerous compared to other races. A high level of toughness mixed with Human intelligence makes for a very adaptable race.

Dwarves have commonly lived side by side with Orcs, first as slaves, though they were typically trained/educated and expensive slaves, not plantation fodder (one used specific groups of Orcs for that purpose) Their higher status kept them from becoming much of an underclass after slavery ended. They do get stereotyped as all being highly educated rich doctors with overbearing parents. Dwarves have lived side by side with Orcs for so long that a lot of Orcish blood runs in Dwarven veins (the inverse is also true, but Orcs are a much bigger population, so it shows less). On average, Dwarves are around 4'8" to 5'4", but without all the crossbreeding they'd be 4 to 8 inches shorter (Well, maybe. The protien and calorie rich modern diet makes people taller, so causation is hard to attribute.). Dwarven hair tends to be lightly colored, and their skin pale, but Orcish influence can change that. Plenty of darker haired and ruddy Dwarves. Dwarves tend to be strong moreso than tough, but like everything else, they often have Orcish traits.

EDIT: The next two are copy/pastes from RPG.net:

Elves are the poorest and most marginalized race, as well as the least numerous. Used to be they were foresters, herbalists, and some hunters, and many have magic in their veins (In D&D terms, Elves favor Sorcerer, not Wizard). They once lived in cities built into the forest itself, but with the onset of industrialization, the Elven population exploded to a degree that carefully managed treehouses just could not support. Especially with the need for factories, railroads, and electricity. The forest cities are now dilapidated, overgrown, extremely impoverished, and crime ridden, and the majority of Elves have long since moved away from those hellholes to live among the Orcs, Dwarves, and Aasimar. In those cities, they form a largely poor or working class that, while discriminated against, isn’t as poorly off as those still stuck in the forest cities.

Elves are a few inches shorter than Orcs, with slender, almost androgynous builds, large pointed ears (which often perk or droop with emotional state), and no external hair other than that on their scalp. Their skin ranges from pale pink to greyscale to blackish, depending on how hot a climate they live in. Lighter skinned elves have forest-like hair colors, typically brown, red, or green. Darker skinned elves usually have pale, almost white hair, with pink, blue, or grey tints to it. Elven eyes can be any color. Around a third have stripes or spots, which can range almost any color but usually are only slightly lighter or darker than their skin.

Drow are just an Elven ethnic group.

Artifice (Warforged)

To animate a construct with actual human emotions, one needs to consume somebody's body and use the energy to wipe the soul clean. This creates a soul that lacks any memory of its previous life and personality, but because the body is consumed it needs an artificial one. The soul needs to be instructed as to how to act, much like a child, but grows far, far faster, reaching adulthood within a year or two. This being is an Artifice.

Originally, the nations of Breland and Vendalia comissioned Artifices as a more humane version of the death penalty (not that a lot of people don't see creating Artifices as just another version of the death penalty). The rulers of Breland and Vendalia wanted to use the technology to remake murders and rapists and return a new person with potential to contribute to society. Unfortunately, the dictator of Leontiny got ahold of this technology, and saw the potential not just to remake condemned criminals, but the mentally ill, the physically disabled, the vagrants, the career criminals, the political dissidents, the sexual deviants, and various other undesirables, all for the "good of society". Thus occured The Advance, which saw millions who did nothing to deserve it sent to the forges. The aftermath of this horror encouraged Vendalia and Breland to finally admit that creating Artifices involves an execution and encode it into their laws that none other than a convicted murderer may ever be made into an Artifice. Even that is extremely controversial in the wake of The Advance, with a significant portion of the populaces of Vendalia and Breland wanting a complete ban on the creation of Artifices.

To make matters worse, the revolutionary Leontin government that deposed the dictator exiled all Artifices after banning their creation completely, despite the Artifices having no fault in the circumstances of their own creation. This has created a large and mistrusted refugee race, many of whom were brainwashed by the tyrannical government during their adolescence. A great many of these refugees have ended up in Vendalia.

Artifices are largely made of metal and alchemical circuits, with plates colored and shaped to give as humanoid an appearance as possible for a piece of metal. Artifices frequently have their bodies decorated as a show of individiality, and therefore can look like whatever a metalworker or painter can achieve. Artifices have no need of clothing except for storage space, but most Artifices wear them both as a further means of showing individual taste and as a means of looking more human.

Durzan

2016-05-08, 06:40 PM

In my setting, High Elves use magic to bioengineer their forests, keeping the forest in perfect conditions suitable for elvish habitation, and tend to be academically minded. If they seek to colonize an area, they will use magic to terraform their forests into the landscape itself. High Elves tend to be a bit arrogant and prideful. They are self proclaimed environmentalists, and often look down upon them. This of course is hypocritical, as while they are professing to love nature, they are using magic to force nature to follow their whims.

Wood Elves are more spiritually minded than their Northern Cousins. They are more easy going, and are basically hippies. They regularly smoke a mixture of rare herbs and plants found in their forests, which basically has the same effect on them as weed (or the magical equivalent to weed), and they spend most of their time getting high off this "weed", writing bad poetry, and encouraging pacifism.

Dark Elves (My take on Drow) arentreally evil at all, just misunderstood, because their culture is so alien to the rest of elf-kind. They keep to themselves in their caves, and rarely venture into the sunlight, as it hurts their eyes. They tend to stay in the shadows, focusing on stealth and deception to defend themselves.

I still laugh whenever I think of these three elvish races and how they'd interact. The Hippie-Elves always puts a smile on my face, lol.

Carl

2016-05-08, 09:20 PM

Hmm. Interesting thread. I recently for random reasons decided to sit down and spend a few hours thinking about how you could have the three common elven archetypes, (Drow/Dark Elves, Wood/Nature Elves, and High/City Elves), in a single society and the general idea i came up with was to port them into an existing setting concept which is basically post apocalyptic, but in a very literal "End Of The World as We Know It" kind of way. The two factions i'd allready got in are littoral judeo-christian hosts of Heaven and Hell, (with humans as part of both, and presumably the classical pantheons of other civilisations such as greece, egypt, rome, e.t.c. are aroudn with their own human elements). Though both really need some expansion on my part TBH.

The main thing about the setting is that whilst it's now all smushed together, previously the elves and the humans and the various divine factions had little or no contact. Well the divine factions probably had some to be fair, but not in the "directly present and visible at all times" way that the elven gods have allways had and that everyone has now.

The fact that the gods have been such a visible and indeed active part of Elven society for so long and willingly grant power to those who embody qualities they represent or value if they so desire the risk that come with it. Currently since i'm representing just the 3 common elven stereotypes i've only got 3 major gods. They can be broken down to match the three stereotypes. The major goddess maps to the nature side. And the two major gods, (the goddesses Husband and Master respectively), to the remaining two.

Where they fall on traditional human morality is honestly a little hard to define. Elves view almost anything as acceptable though the survival and well being of the community as a whole is extremely important, but how this manifests varies with the god. In general most elves like your average human are a mix of types. And moving between communities is both entirely acceptable and even quite common. Indeed at the lowest rungs of each group the differences are much more cosmetic than actual. They live in a very different kind of building in cities with entirely different layouts and due to the influence of the higher up some significant functional differences. But you could take an Elf from each of the three groups, dress them in neutral clothing and sit them down in a room and you wouldn't be able to tell who came from where. They'd probably still come off a little odd by human standards but you wouldn't be able to tell assosiation easily. As you go up the ladder and individuals increasingly embody one or more aspects of the divine being in question their favour and thus power rises. At the very top each community has a single individual who most directly embodies the overall nature of the Divine being and directly below them a collection of individuals who embody singular aspects best.

It is important to note however that aside from those at the very top who directly embody all aspects, the next level down can also have other aspects of the same or even a different divine being, thats all perfectly acceptable. Also whilst the Divine beings handle the aspects of their ivine hierarchys in the mortal Realm the day to day ruling of each realms is left to their highest Elven community member.

One common point you'll see as i cover each divine being is that certain protections exists in the system for all three deities. here's limits on what you can do or on the circumstances under which you can do it or who you can do it to, e.t.c. because whilst he gods want the elves to embody the qualities they value they also want them to thrive and if they're getting killed, crippled or otherwise subject to nastiness, (mental or physical), then that isn't going to happen. Think of it like a parent, each has a different view on what makes a great elf, but they all want all elves to thrive regardless.

The Goddess is often, (and mistakenly), seen by humans as the elven equivalent of judeo-christian god. The good one who embodies virtues. This isn't strictly acurratte in that she's not viewed as any more or less good than the other two by elves. But she does embody many of the same things. She's very much about responsibility and duty as a particularly great ideal. But she also embodies the concept of communities, balance with nature, frugality, fertility, healing, the hunt, and many of the aspects of nature amongst others. All members of her communities can to varying degrees be called upon to serve in one or more roles embodying one or more aspects she embodies to the benefit of the community, (subject to the obvious limit they have to be adequately capable ofc). In this respect there's very much an aspect of the needs of the community. Everyone is expected to work towards seeing that these are met. However there are also protections. Aside from the obvious point of not being able to be called up to do somthing your unsuited to. The lower you are the shorter time period you can be required to serve for before being released and the longer time period before you can be called upon to serve again. As you dedicate yourself more and more to one o0r more of the principles and virtues of the goddess the higher you can go in the hierarchy, but the greater your obligations and the lower your protections. However you don't have to advance if you don;t want to and within some obvious but fairly broad limits you can drop back at will. The goddesses community also provides a number of good, as well as individuals from it's higher ranks to the other communities.

The way the goddess, (and her highest ranking Elven representative) interact with the 3 Elven communities is also unique compared to the other two. Whilst all 3 communities to varying degrees provide members to each other to cover certain required tasks, the Goddess and her community provide the most as many of the bare basics of life and their supply are within her purview. In turn the Goddess is the Husband of one of the Gods, and through an ancient pact, (i haven't worked out the Divine cosmology behind this one yet), the Slave of the other God. She deals with her triplicate responsibilities by having 2 lesser Goddesses as her handmaidens. She spends a third of each century in each divine realm, (the divine and physical realms are seperate though the divine is accessible if the ruling god/goddess allows it). When she is in her own realm she is her traditional self and rules over her people there whilst her Handmaidens handle the two other realms. When she is acting in her role of wife she lives in her husband's realm playing the role of dutiful wife and ruling over her people there whilst her handmaidens again handle the other two realms, and a third of a century is spent in her role as slave to the third major divine. The Handmaidens it should be noted rule in the other realms but do not take her role as wife or slave. The highest ranking member of the Goddesses community mirrors her Goddess, (as the highest ranking members of the other two communities mirror their Gods in the same way), by having two handmaidens and serving each of the three roles to her people and the other two highest members of the other communities. And don't assume that makes her time as a slave the worst, given what that God embodies it's physically traumatic in a whole slew of ways. But despite the fact that in the case of these two she very much does love her husband his culture that he oversees is as alien to her as her Master's. In effect each of the three sub communities highest individuals so thoroughly embody one god/godess so thoroughly that the other two sub cultures are mostly as alien to them as any of the three would be to humans with all of the negetive emotional consequences that brings.

The First of the God's is often viewed as the Elven equivalent of the Devil by Human's. But it would again not be entirely acurratte. He embodies Barnds, War, Slaughter, Rape, Slavery, Murder, Greed, Torture, Drunkenness, Feasts, Revelry, and Hedonism.

It should be noted that not all of the above should be taken literally. There's definitely a lot more obvious of a cultural difference here from human norms than with the goddess, (she's much simpler in some ways, she's the one who sees to the needs of survival which makes her the most relatable to a human by far). For example embodying War isn't about being a great martial champion, thats more properly slaughter, (which itself can be fulfilled by being a great gladiator, or even a great hunter technically. If you hunt for the joy of the kill first and the survival second, it''s slaughter, if you hunt for the good of the community and survival via food acquisition it's "The Hunt" even if you enjoy the kill also). Instead War is about all the preparation and forethought and effort that goes into the War. An armourer producing weapons and armour for the purposes of battle is embodying War just as a Great Tactician or Strategist or a breeder of beasts of war does also. And of course breeders f beasts and armourer can fall into categories of one or more of the other deities depending on their reasons for doing so. Slavery is about enslavement and the keeping and maintenance of slaves, not the act of being a slave, that belongs to a minor Goddess who is nonetheless surprisingly important and a permanent concubine of the Major God under discussion. A particularly confusing point for humans is that a Planner of Parties would fall under one or more of this Gods area's despite his otherwise seemingly awful other aspects. Arguably the two cores tenets that underpin a lot of this are Slavery and Hedonism. He's very much a god of personal self gratification, even at the expense of others. But because he also wishes to see all elves thrive this is handled via the aspects of him that deal with Slavery. Like with Duty and Responsibility for the goddess there are limits and protections in place and these are somewhat extended. Not only is being a slave subject to time limits and protections, but what your required to do as a slave impacts it. Naturally of course making someone a slave requires somthing a bit more forceful than words. Conversely whilst they can fight back to prevent being captured, once made a slave they are required to serve until released. At the same time whilst the protections have additional rules, so do some of the higher ups have more ways around them.though only the highest two layers, (i..e the one who most embodies all aspects of the god and the ones who most embody singular aspects of his ethos), can take permanent slaves, and even then the lowest layers are if not protected, nearly never allowed and the numbers are strictly limited. At the same time permanent harm to the slave is generally frowned upon, (though given divine presence really only death is permanent). Murder is a very interesting case protections wise. It used to use a very complicated highly restrictive system to keep the death rate down. But a long time ago one Elf combined it with greed and became what amounts to an assassin, (a novel concept at the time), which is now the only legal method of engaging in murder, (unless obviously someone willingly divests themselves of said protection, and whilst elves are culturally prideful there's certainly enough willing to do so, especially at the higher power levels, in some cases it even makes defending against attacks from people below easier). Interestingly as well he was the first of the bings to be completely clear that any outside species or half breeds are subject to the same protections as any Elf, (naturally he was the first as they appeared as slaves captured in battle).

NOTE: Posting this now, will come back to the third Divine sometime tomorrow with luck. But it's late here so bed soon and i don't want this getting lost to a power cut or a crash or a miss click or something given how much typing it took.

Carl

2016-05-09, 12:04 PM

Okay to pick up where i left off:

The Third God is in many ways as different to the two existing ones as it's possibble to be. Though as should be obvious there's a Blue/Orange/Yellow morality scale going on in general.

He represents Magic, Technology, Experimentation, Inventiveness, Intellect, Civilisation, Bureaucracy, Industry, The Art's, Beauty, and Individualism.

If that seems a short list it's partly because in this case i've combined a number of detail elements under fairly broader categories. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that i haven't pinned down the exact technology levels involved here for the elves. The goddess is very obviously a one with nature type, very survival focused. It's her influence that got the elves through their equivalent of the stone age. The Master is about living and loving life, about personal self gratification and violence. He's the counterbalance to the other two that ensures the elves don't turn into highly regimented obsessive compulsives, or other mental health affected types. The Husband however is very much the one who helped the Elves progress technologically and build a more than stone age society He took them from a tribal hunter gatherer existence and through his influence brought them into a city dwelling nation state status. Those cities might be tree house based, or ground based human like, or somthing else entirely. But they grew out of his influence and how it interacted with the other Divine's influences. As his focus on individualism probably tells you his part of elven society is the one part where there's no medium or concept that allows another to require a specific action of you. You're not going to progress up his hierarchy by being a lazy layabout, but you have no real obligations or requirements placed upon you that you don't accept. In this respect advancing up his hierarchy is a bit like taking on a Job and then advancing up the promotion ladder. Of course those Job's cover a lot of ground not all of it analogous with things we'd think of as jobs. And as noted previously a lot of his stuff can overlap with the other two. An armourer can produce armour to meet a practical survival need, and thus be associated with the goodness, to produce armour for the purposes of providing the finest gear for the fighting of wars possibble, (i.e. the production of armour specifically for combat), is associated with The Maser. Whilst production of armour for the purposes of producing the most technologically capable, or most beutiful, (e.g. ceremonial), armour, or the most mass producible armour, or, well you get the idea i think. As Magic is one of the things that he represents and values he is also the easiest from which to acquire such gifts. The others hand out such power only to their upper echelons, (though far from just the topmost layers, but you can;t get magic without progressing a good way all the same), he hands it out to anyone willing to put in the effort and dedication to it, the practising of magic for it's own sake is of value for him, not merely as a power and a means to other ends. Of course these lower level magic users are much less powerful, but conversely much more common as only the very bottom most layers can't get at it as opposed to the majority with the others. Whilst as noted i haven't totally laid out the details of their tech i can say i don't want to go steam punk here, but if Elves had giggling mad scientists, (and they have their fair share of Archimedes/Da Vinci/Leonard of Quirm type mad geniuses), they'd go here and would be value by him. And you'll certainly see a lot of alchemical, technological, and magical experimentation going on.

Militarily all 3 groups have allways pooled their resources but The Husband is interesting in that beyond a certain point, (and much like citizens of medieval and classical times), of advancement you have to be part of the standing militia as a matter of course, but it's not a lifestyle so much as an extra job responsibility. As a result he provides the bulk of the mass elven infantry as well as the spellcasters to the elven armies. The Goddess through hunters and foragers provides much of the scouts and other light units, and the Master through great tacticians, strategists, and collections of martial champions under the command of a single "War Leader", or War beasts under the command of their breeders and Trainers provide the leaders and shock troops of the Elven armies.

Also this has got my brain bubbling, spent most of this morning working out my Dwarves, anyone interested in hearing about them?

Bohandas

2016-05-09, 08:01 PM

I have an issue with the use of the classical elements as literal laws of a game setting, even in a fantasy world, and this is because on a surface level, everything still functions normally. A human under a setting or system with the classical elements functions just like a human with the chemical elements: they eat, they drink, they sleep, they have blood in a closed circulatory system, fire burns them (and this fact combined with their need for air and water kills any idea of humans being from equal parts of the elements), swords cut them, etc. Presumably, at the lowest level, a four-elements human has to function in a different way, but the place where they transition from this to the familiar biology is rarely made clear.

One possible solution would to be slightly tweak the elemental planes to actually exemplify the four states of matter, which they already map to anyway, with the elements idea merely being a common misinterpretation. This gets less easy to do if you're also using paraelemental and quasielemental planes though.

VoxRationis

2016-05-10, 10:05 AM

One possible solution would to be slightly tweak the elemental planes to actually exemplify the four states of matter, which they already map to anyway, with the elements idea merely being a common misinterpretation. This gets less easy to do if you're also using paraelemental and quasielemental planes though.

"A common misinterpretation." That leads me to an interesting question. How often do people have it such that lore regarding how magic (or anything else, really) works is false?

Carl

2016-05-10, 09:35 PM

Heh nice to see i didn't manage to kill this with a wall of text. When we went like 2 days with just me posting i was worried i'd killed the thread somehow.

"A common misinterpretation." That leads me to an interesting question. How often do people have it such that lore regarding how magic (or anything else, really) works is false?

Not so much flat out false. I generally either know how somthing works, or i decide to leave to whole thing up in the air and naturally have everyone in universe speculate like crazy with loads of different potentially contradictory theories based on available evidence, and naturally some of those are going to be mutually contradictory. To touch briefly and generally, (very briefly and generally, if you want details just ask but i don't want to risk another text wall without permission ;p), on some from my previously described setting;

The Dwarves are subject to a lot of speculation because uniquely amongst the races, (the horsemen below may or may not qualify as a race, see their entry) they appear to have no divine god present and claim never to have had such, unlike the other races which have to varying degrees and in varying ways, (i haven't decided how multiple pantheons fit together with humans yet ok), been created along with their worlds by a Divine being or group thereof. But no one's sure if thats because the Divine being is hidden, he/she/it is dead, he/she/it is dead or even in some wilder theorising, (based on their unique and powerful magical abilities), if it's because every Dwarf is a sort of little god with a tiny spark of the divine in each of them.

The Four Horsemen are a Neutral force with no known associations or past. They're widely believed to have some hand in the creation of the cosmic all and it is known they will play some role in armageddon thanks to their own cryptic statements when encountered, but no one understands what that means and things kicking off haven't made it any clearer, somtimes they just randomly appear and observe a battle, they've even been known to participate, but for what purpose or why no one's sure, and there's no rhyme or reason to which side they pick.

Amongst the Hosts of Heaven and Hell Uriel and Ariel, (the latter is a working name on my end), have been sources of immense speculation and since Uriel turned back up with Armageddon beginning she's been the source of even more. Never mind how it's added to the allready extensive stories that previously existed around the Crystal Blade she now wields, (the only weapon able to slay a divine tends to get a lot of stories and speculation, especially when no one knows anything else about it). How she survived Abaddon's Betrayal or foresaw it is a fair source of questions too. Ariel is even worse in some way, the most she's ever known to have publicly revealed is that she's Uriel's daughter. Some of the highest ranking archangels, (Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, e.t.c.), claim to know more but she's a mystery wrapped inside an enigma all wrapped up in multiple riddles. And she's shown a tendency to odd bits of knowledge and statements thats generated it's own share of speculation around the Armageddon Blade. Which many argue makes no sense as it's an Angelic construction, (used first by urie and the Aerial as the means by which where held fast the gates of hell), it's a know quantity, how could it be doing unknowable things or be causing them?

When i figure out the Orcs in more detail they may well get their own share of stuff too. But a lot about them is still up in the air on my end.

Bohandas

2016-05-11, 01:01 AM

Here's two possible spins on elves.:

-Elven society has very few members of the commoner class; most NPCs are adepts, experts, or magewrights. With 100 years to learn a trade even the most indolent student could learn magic or become an expert in something. The same principle goes for dwarves and gnomes.

-The regular elves, not the drow, are the bad ones. Furthermore as the campaign progresses light elfin culture bears an increasing resemblance to the Ku Klux Klan (Yes, I know South Park already did this Stick of Truth], but I thought of it independently of them. Besides, South Park's already done everything)

Deepbluediver

2016-05-11, 09:42 AM

Heh nice to see i didn't manage to kill this with a wall of text. When we went like 2 days with just me posting i was worried i'd killed the thread somehow.
No, don't worry about that I think. It's just that after reading this and the other thread, some of my changes don't seem as dramatic.

But I think that's in part because I wanted to keep them easily playable by PCs. There's some super-creative stuff here, but some of it might be more difficult for a player to get a handle on if they want to actually act like a member of that race instead of just a funny-colored humanoid.

Carl

2016-05-11, 01:21 PM

Eh For me i do a lot of worldbuilding for the hell of it. It's fun. Plus in this case if i ever use the setting it'll be for a WHFB esque wargame rather than for an RPG so interesting races that produce diverse and unique varieties of units are more important than necessarily a solid core of relatable individuals and individual concepts. That's kinda of why my heaven and Hell factions are so underdeveloped. Characterization wise i've got enough there i could produce a solid pair of races, but for producing a varied and complex army with unique elements i'm short of a lot, Human unit types, sure plenty of options there, individual heroic Angelic/Demonic beings, sure. But the actually unique stuff, the non-Heroic individual components of the Heavenly and Hellish hosts, that i need to work on, but i'm honestly not sure where to start on that at the moment. It's not like classical mythology on them produce a wide variety of clearly defined types that could work into units from there.

Carl

2016-05-11, 01:27 PM

Hit post a bit too soon, (needed to go grab a refill of my drink from downstairs, got distracted :p), just then. But don't disparage your own work either, honestly i've really enjoyed everyone's stuff as i read the thread, the subtle can be as impressive or more so than the complex. Also as you can probably tell i have as much an interest in the sociology as the mythology and physiology behind things and that allways tends to create bigger differences.

TLDR: it's not about the size of the difference, it's about he execution and how interesting that is and that makes the end result.

TuesdayTastic

2016-05-17, 08:35 AM

TLDR: it's not about the size of the difference, it's about he execution and how interesting that is and that makes the end result.

Well, I just recently came up with a spin for elves that involves size difference.

What if elves were actually tiny 2 inch people who lived in the woods? Then when the elves found humans and saw the potential that they could have for their society, they taught them magic in exchange for those services. (A biggun could build them a house insanely fast, and they get magic in return). The 2 races then lived with each other long enough for them to figure out size magic, allowing humans and elves to live in each other's societies.

This is only a start, and I haven't figured out how I can spin the other races but I'm pretty happy with this.

Max_Killjoy

2016-05-17, 09:04 AM

Well, I just recently came up with a spin for elves that involves size difference.

What if elves were actually tiny 2 inch people who lived in the woods? Then when the elves found humans and saw the potential that they could have for their society, they taught them magic in exchange for those services. (A biggun could build them a house insanely fast, and they get magic in return). The 2 races then lived with each other long enough for them to figure out size magic, allowing humans and elves to live in each other's societies.

This is only a start, and I haven't figured out how I can spin the other races but I'm pretty happy with this.

Reminds me of this -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_%282013_film%29

Carl

2016-05-17, 09:23 AM

TuesdayTastic

2016-05-17, 09:37 AM

Reminds me of this -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_%282013_film%29

That is precisely where I got the idea. I watched it a few days ago and just thought to myself "this but they actually work with humans". Has a lot of interesting consequences and outcomes.

TuesdayTastic

2016-05-17, 09:39 AM

Very interesting idea. It's not a huge change, (pardon the puns their inevitable, sorry), but the effects thereof are immense and raise so many interesting sociological questions and points. Nice. I think i'm gonna give getting my dwarves on paper, (so to speak) a try, but just wanted to ask, if i wanted help putting another race together would you say the posts should go here or in the worldbuilding talk thread?

This is just a thread about spins on races. If you have a unique idea about dwarves go ahead and say it. Of course I am not a mod so I may be in the wrong, but I see no potential issues.

Admiral Squish

2016-05-17, 11:50 AM

On the issue of size, I was working on a race of 'little folk' for my crossroads setting for a long while. I was coming at them from the angle of the original myths from europe and north america rather than really 'reinterpreting' the existing races, but they did cover a lot of ground that's normally reserved for more 'traditional' races. There were a lot of different types, and a lot of variation, with the smallest only about a foot tall and the largest almost two. I covered a pretty broad range, from helpers to tricksters to warriors to healers, and I covered new versions of quite a few of the traditional races, like goblins, kobolds, dwarves, elves, brownies, gremlins, and a couple others.

I also tried to make a catch-all 'humans with some unnatural bloodline' race, called the 'touched'. Basically, if there was a half-X or x-influenced race, this race was supposed to encompass it and allow a little more customization. So, like, dragon-touched got some base natural armor and energy resistance, but they could pick if they wanted to get claws and wimpy wings with that or if they wanted to go with bonuses to elemental magic and a breath weapon. Evil-touched could be more physical, or they could be more manipulative. Good touched could get bonuses to smiting evil, or to healing the sick. It ended up being just too big and intimidating to see much use, though.

Carl

2016-05-17, 12:48 PM

This is just a thread about spins on races. If you have a unique idea about dwarves go ahead and say it. Of course I am not a mod so I may be in the wrong, but I see no potential issues.

i think i confused you. I meant in addition to the dwarves i've got a half complete idea i could use some help with, not sure where to put it since i could use some outside input :).

Carl

2016-05-17, 02:24 PM

These dwarves certainly aren't your typical dwarves however. Physically i definitely imagine somthing like Dragon Age: Inquisition's dwarves, i've never had a problem with dwarves in literature or gaming, but i've also never really had them click for me, DA:I's dwarves, i just instantly liked them and wanted them around more. They were fun, all of them, and i definitely feel like the appearance played an effect, it made them a lot more directly relatable on some level. So they've become my sort of standard template now.

That said aside from that they're very much they're own sorts, though given Darksiders provided the initial spark for the whole setting creatively speaking i decided to crib a tiny bit off the makers from that too, though again they're very much their own sort as you'll see when we get to them in a second. I also suspect Tolkien may have been subconsciously influencing me as you'll see.

So what's at the core of them? Well they're still very much master smiths, in fact calling them master smiths really doesn't do them justice. But i think one of the core things to cover first is how they see the universe, or at least the matter that makes it up. It's not so important physiologically, (though it would have some interesting RPG effects too), but sociologically and in terms of their smithing it's a big deal. Also fair warning, the terminology is likely to be a bit hard to follow though i'll try and be as clear as possibble, i'm trying to describe matter state concepts that have no english equivalency, so i'm using nearest terms which creates some odd overlap in some of them language wise that dosen't exist within the concept being named.

For the Dwarves they don't just perceive the universe through the senses were familiar with. They also have an additional sense. For lack of a better term i'll call it "rock-sense". In short dwarves can perceive any matter they can visually see in terms of their rock-sense. What this rock sense does is give them a continuously updating view of the matter makeup structure and several other purely dwarven concepts. When they look at a mountain they don't just see the mountains outline, they see all the matter making it up, the states of that matter, and several other things for which the english language dosen;t have proper names for. However it's important to note that whilst their rock sense can show them the effects on matter of Energy forms, and they can perceive the effects through their other senses as we could, their rock sense lacks any direct ability to observe energy. It's also important to understand that this sense is not some magical version of a massive set of science sensors. It's directly analogous to ur own sight. When we look at a picture we don't see all the individual nano-particles of pigment that make it up, we don't even really see the colours that result from that. We perceive the finial complete whole whilst instinctively remaining aware of all of those little details. Where capable of perceiving both the overall makeup and the end result simultaneously and without really thinking about it. The dwarves rock-sense is exactly the same, they're aware of the individual bits and pieces, but they perceive those as part of a greater whole.

The dwarves have a lot of attributes that go into anything they perceive, again these are more analogous to colours or physical texture or other similar concepts, they can perceive the individual bits, but they also perceive the end combined effect.

They have terms for weather or not "rock", (everything is a form of rock to a dwarf, be it a boulder, a river, a person, w/e), can think for itself, (simple or complex, living or non-living), weather it can move on it's own, (this includes natural growth), it's matter state, (liquid, solid, gas, maybe plasma but they may not recognise that as rock), as well as a variety of terms to cover its exact composition, some of the distribution factors thereof. And also a descriptive element, with a name consisting of those in sequence, shorthand will leave out the composition descriptors however with one important exception. The Flesh aspec. Flesh, (approximate translation), is the closest thing to a dwarven concept of "life". It indicates that the objects sum of it's component attributes is somthing the dwarves cannot recreates. They can create via magic constructs capable of growth and thought and movement, and they can assemble non-magical compositions of materials in incredibly complex ways, they could recreate a human body for example so perfectly that modern science would be unable to tell it wasn't a natural human, but it will just be a perfect corpse at the moment of death, without magic in the place of the thought and motion that a human naturally possess it won;t live, and it will live only as long as the dwarves sustain the magic. Dwarven children are interesting in that they're born without thought or motion but allready possessed of flesh. To a human they luck like a statue of a newborn all curled up, not an actual newborn. But then the parent, (or parents more usually), infuse it with magic which gives these attributes, but the magic does not sustain them, it merely provides the spark, thereafter they live without further input.

Dwarves work their magic by singing, the song is a lyrical, (though not necessarily descriptive) the concept the idea, the very essence of what they're building, it is both the means that shape their construction and the plan for it, (hence my suspicion of a bit of tolkien influence, there's a lot of the creation of middle earth similarities here). When it comes to children what the parent, (or very rarely other guardians), sing is a sort of summation of their lives their achievements, everything that makes them who and what they are, the resultant personality that develops whilst ultimately entirely self determining is at least shaped by these, though of course how the child is cared for as it grows is also a factor. Dwarven children grow to adulthood quite quickly however. I haven't decided on a specific number but probably less than 10 years, though variation is possibble, (pregnancies however are probably very extended by human standards). Ultimately a dwarf achieves adulthood when his own need to create and build reach the point where he seeks out his or her own independent workspace away from his or her parents holdings, (though he or she will be taught and create within his parents holdings well before that.

Dwarven towns are especially interesting. Each is built on the surface, (dwarves can and do work underground but they surface dwellers naturally speaking), at the base of a mountain, and roughly centrally located there will be a single great forge, lesser secondary great forges exist in long built towns, (naturally), but the great forge is the first forge built and is the core of the original settlement. A new colony begins when a sufficiently large number of dwarves in a neighbouring community, (close enough to be aware of the mountain is close enough, so close varies from community to community), feel their creative needs are unable to be adequately served at the old colony and they seek to start a new one away from the existing works of the existing colony. The reason it takes a sufficient number of dwarves is that founding a colony requires awakening the mountain the colony sits at the base of. All forms of magical effect placed upon any construct can be made permanent, but the larger the material to be effected, the more time it takes. Awakening a mountain permanently so it's bounty can be used to build with is a big undertaking, and whilst they can expand the initial awakening over time there's an effective minimum number of dwarves to do the initial work in a reasonable amount of time. Awakening a mountain is quite an interesting thing. The first step taken is usually to generate a perpetual melt point in a glacier or snowfield, (thus a mountainous minimum requirement is permanent snow cover on some portion of the upper slopes, hardly difficult). Dwarven magic cannot create from thin air, but it can duplicate matter, the more complicated the form the harder it is, (though this isn't strictly elemental = easier, naturally occurring would be a better reference point), thus creating a point on the mountain where snow or ice is being both perpetually duplicated and melted is quite easy and they use far less water as a rule than the other substances. The second more difficult phase is to aces what they call "the heart of the mountain". The literally reach in and liquify the core of the mountain magically heating and creating automatic duplication thereof, the resultant liquid whilst looking and acting in most respects like magma isn't really the real thing, it's a quasi magical liquid that can depending on the magic applied by the dwarf shaping it assume any combination of actual elements found in the originally liquefied heart, and because of how the heart is created it's a continually renewing resource. This "magma" is then guided up through the inside of the mountain to the peak where it is allowed to pour out into a carefully constructed channel that carries it to the bottom of the mountain. The first forge, the great forge is established where the water and the fire meet.

Whilst in time smaller secondary forges for the personal needs of individual dwarves and/or their families will be established this forge is the communal one and is where the majority of dwarves newly into adulthood will go to do their first works. Drawing forth the fire and shaping and changing it and quenching it in water equally drawn forth for that purpose.

When a dwarf first begins that independent life he'll often build various things there, it could be anything from constructs of various kinds, (think golems), to tools for use in various ways, (whilst dwarves use their magic for a lot of construction and geoscaling purposes they still have uses for various tools), to art or furniture, or e.t.c. Eventually however he'll want to begin a project that requires actual land, some dwarves jump to this immediately, some stay in the great forge working at a single small forge for many human lifetimes, it varies with the individual. When that happens he seeks out an area that is either unoccupied or that previously belonged to another dwarf but is now unclaimed due to being explicitly and clearly abandoned. There he builds his first work. Later he will probably claim another area and do somthing more. The size of the area and of the work greatly varies based on the individual dwarf and it doesn't follow that it will automatically grow with time. Eventually, though again it varies with the dwarf he or she will reach the point at which he feels stifled and lacking in inspiration. At this time he or she will start the "Great Journey". He or she will go from colony to colony visiting them, viewing their works and the things wrought by other dwarves seeking his or her own source of inspiration. Dwarves engaged in such tend to mingle socially now more than at any prior point in their lives and this is typically, (though not exclusively), form relationships that lead to marriages, (or the dwarven equivalent rather). But this isn't guaranteed, conversely a dwarf may engage in many such journeys over a sufficiently long period of time. However it is rare for couples to do so, and never whilst they have non-adult children. Parents often find their similar yet subtly different offspring acting as a source of inspiration in of themselves.

The effect overall probably looks a lot like your typical MP minecraft server, (though this wasn't intentional when i thought this all up), with people building one thing, then moving onto the next and then the next, then going looking at others works and then maybe collaborating and pulling friends into playing and so on and so forth.

Do not mistake dwarves solitary tendencies for a lack of care for each other however, dwarves very much care about each other and their complex interwoven families. They just don't see each other to the degree many normal human families would. It's probably comparable to families living in different countries, or in the same country with a significant geographical separation. They don;t see much of each other exchanging only occasional messages, but they very much care for each other. Equally their works are not typical great poullution clogged morsasses, that's certianly a possibbility and a style but dwarves tend not to produce a lot of what we'd call pollution and whilst their edifices can be massive their creators and artists and engineers to their craggy cores. They're perfectly capable of and do create structures that whilst clearly artificial have a sense of being somehow the bones of a mountain and are as beautiful as imposing. As an idea many dwarven colonies have very large constructs as permanent defences. yet when not fighting they stand as massive decorative statues. Think the big statues from the falls in the lord of the rings for an idea. Massive, clearly artificial, and yet a part of the landscape all the same. They also have a fair appreciation for nature and most buildings have measures to encourage wildlife to thrive without compromising the vision, for the dwarves the creatures that inhabit their works are as much a part of it as the stone and metal and whatever else they've used, a particularly poignant example that is one of the closest things the dwarves have to a concept of sacred is the way aside from the awakening process no darf will or is allowed to build upon the mountains themselves, even if they're uncolonised.

Dwarves are functionally immortal, but as they get older they tend to think more and build less, seeking to do everything not as quickly as possibble as they did in their youth but as well as possibble. Sometimes a dwarf, or more usually a couple with no adult children will feel particularly lost and at ends. When that happens they will go to one of the most well protected portions of the town, the hall of stone. There they can freely and willing shed the normal burden of motion and thought. This does not destroy or regress the dwarves in question, rather it's more a kind of hibernation in which they become again as they once where, stone statues, but their essence remains within them , merely dormant and with the right magic any dwarf can awaken them. Any dwarves undertaking such activities will leave very specific instruction on when to awaken them.

And despite their odd social tendencies they're fiercely powerful warriors when necessary. Not only are they effortlessly capable of building an army and fortifications in a matter of day's, but when a truly serious threat appears they will elect, (normal dwarf governance is very individualistic, if an official is needed for any purpose he will be elected based upon the need and the dwarf that is felt to be most effective in such a role), from amongst their number a "grand smith" (approximate translation), a dwarf of wisdom who will organise and direct the efforts of all the other dwarves who will for the time being put aside their normal individualistic projects t focus on a unified war effort. Though of course a good master smith assigns duties based on the individual preferences of the dwarves as this helps them achieve the best results. And of course it's not uncommon over time for a colony to acquire a variety of suitably militarized or allready militarized constructs from various early projects by various dwarves. The result is the full industrious potential of the colony focused upon the task of their own defence and wa.

Burley

2016-05-17, 02:57 PM

In my campaign, humans are interlopers from a different plane. The Native Fey races are Wood Elves, High Elves, Dark Elves and Gnomes (called Gilli kin, Qua-lien, Vinci and Mun, respectively). Due to the humans messing around with forces beyond their ken, the main fey races has genetic offshots: Halflings and Dwarves are non-magical gnomes, githyanki and githzerai are mutations of Wood/High elves, and the Shadar-kai are variants of the Dark elves.
Also, pretty much any other playable race is considered one of the Beast Men, including Dragonborn and Tiefling (though tieflings are not demonic, but satyrs that were sold into slavery by the Dark Elves).

My campaign world takes place in Oz, several centuries after the events of the movie.

TuesdayTastic

2016-05-17, 02:59 PM

Carl

2016-05-17, 05:29 PM

That is a very interesting take, and I think it is much more fleshed out than you care to admit. I find your dwarves to be very interesting. The idea about singing for magic is still really cool, even if it is Tolkien-esque. Except it's not because dwarves in Lotr don't sing anything beyond a beer song. Although I am curious, if they are able to craft a human body that is near perfection but without a spark of life, then how are they able to make their own children? If they can give their children the spark of life, why can't they give the spark of life to their human creations? What does it cost them to give this spark of life to their children?

I'm glad you like it, as for your question, this feels like a miscommunication or failure to communicate on my part what i actually mean there. Common problem for me.

For the dwarves the "Flesh Aspect" is what is the spark of life. It represents the ability to think or to move, (or both), for oneself without an outside force to sustain that ability. But it dosen;t require than no outside force is required to kickstart things.

I'll try a metaphor with you and hope i don't confuse you.

Let's say that we compare a fully functional adult living being, (like you or me), to a fully functioning computer playing a movie.

It has 4 components that make it work. The physical hardware which the programing runs on and that the outputs display on, (i.e the tower and monitor). The cable connecting the Monitor to the Computer. The operating system and program for playing the movie and the movie itself as a form of data. And the electricity that allows it all to run. Magic can replace the programing, it can replace the cable, and as long as those are replaced by the magic it will continue to function even if it lacks electricity, but take the magic away and it stops working. And the dwarves can't replace electricity.

Where's to continue the metaphor a dwarven newborn is a computer with the monitor unplugged and no software loaded, but the electricity plugged in.

That's not perfect of course, they don't literally write the mind or animate them. Rather their magic interacts with the unique flesh nature of the child creating the newborn mind and awakening the ability to move. (In so doing their appearance also changes to that of flesh, dwarves only look like stone when they';re newborn or in the hall of stone).

Does that make sense?

TuesdayTastic

2016-05-18, 08:16 AM

I'm glad you like it, as for your question, this feels like a miscommunication or failure to communicate on my part what i actually mean there. Common problem for me.

For the dwarves the "Flesh Aspect" is what is the spark of life. It represents the ability to think or to move, (or both), for oneself without an outside force to sustain that ability. But it dosen;t require than no outside force is required to kickstart things.

I'll try a metaphor with you and hope i don't confuse you.

Let's say that we compare a fully functional adult living being, (like you or me), to a fully functioning computer playing a movie.

It has 4 components that make it work. The physical hardware which the programing runs on and that the outputs display on, (i.e the tower and monitor). The cable connecting the Monitor to the Computer. The operating system and program for playing the movie and the movie itself as a form of data. And the electricity that allows it all to run. Magic can replace the programing, it can replace the cable, and as long as those are replaced by the magic it will continue to function even if it lacks electricity, but take the magic away and it stops working. And the dwarves can't replace electricity.

Where's to continue the metaphor a dwarven newborn is a computer with the monitor unplugged and no software loaded, but the electricity plugged in.

That's not perfect of course, they don't literally write the mind or animate them. Rather their magic interacts with the unique flesh nature of the child creating the newborn mind and awakening the ability to move. (In so doing their appearance also changes to that of flesh, dwarves only look like stone when they';re newborn or in the hall of stone).

Does that make sense?

I guess it kind of does. Basically all they need now is software/experience in order to make their bodies run, right?

Admiral Squish

2016-05-18, 09:17 AM

So, dwarves have some sort of passive matter/energy-detection sense in addition to sight. My question is, how well does it, like, penetrate? If a dwarf can look at a mountain and see it's makeup, how well does that ability apply to mundane experiences? Like, if a dwarf looked at a wall that had an inscription carved on the other side, would he be able to read it? Could he read a poster attached to said wall? Could he perceive a hobgoblin leaning against it? Or a trap hidden inside it? Could he look at a chest and know what was inside? Could he look down at the ground and see the shape of an underground cave system?

The problem with exotic senses for playable races is that it tends to be difficult for players to really relate to what their character is experiencing, as well as to understand exactly what that particular sense would reveal. More often then not, it tends to be forgotten until they're reminded it exists, so their characters act as though they didn't have it. Like, I once played with a dwarf warrior who, when surrounded by kobolds in the darkness, hunkered down beside the human with the torch and readied actions, complaining all the while, until he was reminded he had darkvision and could just charge them. I've also seen dwarves taken by surprise by things they should rightfully have detected with stonecunning, if the DM hadn't forgotten they had it. Enhanced versions of existing senses, like scent, tend to work alright, but really unusual senses are often problematic.

Carl

2016-05-18, 02:35 PM

I guess it kind of does. Basically all they need now is software/experience in order to make their bodies run, right?

In effect. Think of the singing as being somewhat equivalent to a baby born without all of the genetically passed on information that is a part of concious, subconcious, and non-conscious thought. It dosen;t know how to think, to breath, to move, or anything else, but it's still very much alive. A Human or pretty much any other species that enters this state, dies. Dwarves don't, (though sufficient physical damage will kill them, for why i suggest reading the next paragraph, though presumably their flesh takes on a rock like form when that happens), their bodies will exist perfectly alive but almost frozen in place, (like they're in suspended animation to use another metaphor), their body form, to non-dwarves anyway, seemingly being made of stone. Literally you could take a dwarf in some form and every test you can think of, including other forms of non-divine magic would indicate it's an inanimate and non-living statue. Thats one of the reason the dwarves being semi-divine is a popular in setting theory, (the others being related to both their unprecedented, (for a non-divine empowered individual), to shape their world and to create genuine minds. These minds may not be alive, but they can if so desired be every bit as self aware and sentient as you or me, thats somthing non-divine magic can't do, through natural reproduction and the creation of new minds that goes with that is intrinsic to all living things).

Actually this has made me think on thi aspect a bit more and what i'd say is the case is that a dwarf who isn't hibernating needs the functionality of their body too keep going. When you come right down to it the body of any animal could be described as a combination of life support, locomotion provider and breeder for the consciousness within. It's possibly a little nihilistic view but so long as a body is capable of entering a "still" state that preserves it it would not need to be fully functioning and so long as the conciousness cna enter such a still state that it dosen;t need the body it can allow the body to achieve such a state. So a dwarven baby or an adult in the hall of stone

So, dwarves have some sort of passive matter/energy-detection sense in addition to sight. My question is, how well does it, like, penetrate? If a dwarf can look at a mountain and see it's makeup, how well does that ability apply to mundane experiences? Like, if a dwarf looked at a wall that had an inscription carved on the other side, would he be able to read it? Could he read a poster attached to said wall? Could he perceive a hobgoblin leaning against it? Or a trap hidden inside it? Could he look at a chest and know what was inside? Could he look down at the ground and see the shape of an underground cave system?

The problem with exotic senses for playable races is that it tends to be difficult for players to really relate to what their character is experiencing, as well as to understand exactly what that particular sense would reveal. More often then not, it tends to be forgotten until they're reminded it exists, so their characters act as though they didn't have it. Like, I once played with a dwarf warrior who, when surrounded by kobolds in the darkness, hunkered down beside the human with the torch and readied actions, complaining all the while, until he was reminded he had darkvision and could just charge them. I've also seen dwarves taken by surprise by things they should rightfully have detected with stonecunning, if the DM hadn't forgotten they had it. Enhanced versions of existing senses, like scent, tend to work alright, but really unusual senses are often problematic.

It's strictly matter, they can sense energy the way a human could with their other senses and they're aware of what involved in matter state changes, (so they know steam is hot because water only becomes gaseous when hot), but they cannot directly perceive it. That's also what makes their ability to sense life in the form of the flesh aspect so interesting, they're not looking at say a human and seeing the electrical activity in the brain, they can't see that, but they still instinctively know where alive and that comes to them with the knowledge that the sum of the whole is also in addition to it's elemental and compound combinations possessed also of the flesh attribute. (Flesh is perceived as a form of elemental/compound/molecule/somthing in which the sum of the whole is greater than it's parts, it's a sort of grand archetype that combinations of elements and compounds and molecules can fall under in some cases and the presence of that archetype indicates life).

As for the question. Dwarves haven't got x-ray vision as we think of it, rather they perceive discrete objects with their special sense. I'd assume for the sake of argument that much like humans it's primarily sight bound, but just as we can know a whirling fan is still swirling behind us from the noise, (or smell a pile of dog muck, or feel the wind on our backs), they can probably more dimly perceive things they can't see in the same way. They can perceive the totality, the layout the composition e.t.c of any object they look at, but they can't see beyond it. Objects within objects probably depends on where the dividing line is, i'd say they could perceive furniture and most other inanimate objects within perfectly fine, but objects which differ in one of the two major attributes, (motion and thought), would not be directly perceived, but they probably could/would be indirectly perceived. So if you locked a human in a trunk they'd perceive the trunk just fine, and be indirectly aware that there was somthing in the trunk that matched the general parameters of a human, (but they wouldn't be able to say it was a human unless they'd seen a human, otherwise it would just be an unidentified lifeform to them with a very general idea of the parameters), but they wouldn't be able to see the human their layout, composition, e.t.c.

As for the second paragraph, like i said this is aimed at creating a setting more for a WHFB style game than an actual RPG. So the requirements are a bit different. In addition i do a lot of this sort of thing, build entire world, because, well, it's fun.

341gerbig

2016-05-24, 11:29 PM

My elves are barely containing something dark.

They are very well practiced at taking part in activities that are centering, calming, relaxing. Aranging flowers, learning about philosophy, practicing the poses required for magic, communing with nature, gentle diplomatic missions etc.

All because it helps them hide who they are, or who they used to be. If they let their thoughts drift, if they let their emotions rise too much, if they allow themselves to become uncentered, they will return to their feral roots.

All elves have a monster inside them, a fragment of the wild, animalistic conduit for fey magic that is their wood elf ancestry.

There are tales of elves, once high nobles in Crystal eleven cities, losing focus, and having what is called a "Green Dream, returning to the wilderness, hunting beasts with their bare hands, living off pure instinct, shaping the landscape with brutal Fey magic, destroying farms and villages to allow nature to take the land back.

Each elf must maintain focus, lest they be reduced to an animal.

Bohandas

2016-05-25, 10:23 PM

I drew a somewhat unpopular adventure about demons on the MSPA forum before it crashed that depicted my vision of demonic society, which involved the Blood War being waged purely for entertainment (and gambling) reasons, and an unusually large number of crackhouses and weapon shops located in town squares.

http://s20.postimg.org/yq9i9mblp/Bettor_s_Guide_to_the_Blood_War.png

KoyukiTei13

2016-05-26, 02:02 AM

I like to take a concept and run with it. For instance, blood magic and an outsider cult. I wanted to make a cult of practicing blood mages that were good in nature, rather than evil. Evil blood magic is overdone, imo. So I made the Ahjkashan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?485516-Ahjkasha-(Drow-Elf-Offshoot)&p=20693664#post20693664). They're an offshoot of Drow (ya know, Lolth Queen of Spiders?) who found sanctuary in Eilistraee's watch for not being as evil as the rest of their kind. They were granted a slightly different appearance, yet to be decided upon. They still have the dark skin, for sure, though.

I'm working on a bunch of different human 'subraces' for different locations where their upbringing matters a bit more. Not sure how balanced any of this is, and a bit of it is PHB and other people's homebrew tweaked into something I could use.

Humans

“These were the stories of a restless people who long ago took to the seas and rivers in longboats, first to pillage and terrorize, then to settle. Yet there was an energy, a love of adventure, that sang from every page. Long into the night Liriel read, lighting candle after precious candle.
She’d never given much thought to humans, but these stories fascinated her. In these yellowed pages were tales of bold heroes, strange and fierce animals, mighty primitive gods, and a magic that was part and fabric of that distant land.”
-Elaine Cunningham, Daughter of the Drow

IN THE RECKONINGS OF MOST WORLDS, humans are the youngest of the common races, late to arrive on the world scene and short-lived in comparison to dwarves, elves, and dragons. Perhaps it is because of their shorter lives that they strive to achieve as much as they can in the years they are given. Or maybe they feel they have something to prove to the elder races, and that’s why they build their mighty empires on the foundation of conquest and trade. Whatever drives them, humans are the innovators, the achievers, and the pioneers of the world.

A Broad Spectrum
With their penchant for migration and conquest, humans are more physically diverse than other common races. There is no typical human. An individual can stand from 5 feet to a little over 6 feet tall and weigh from 125 to 250 pounds. Human skin shades range from nearly black to very pale, and hair colors from blond to black (kinky, curly, or straight); males might sport facial hair that is sparse or thick. A lot of humans have a dash of nonhuman blood, revealing hints of elf, orc, or other lineages. Humans reach adulthood in their late teens and hardly live even a single century.

Variety in all Things
Humans are the most adaptable and ambitious people among the common races. They have widely varying tastes, morals, and customs in many different lands where they have settled. When they settle, though, they stay: they build cities to last for the ages, and great kingdoms that can persist for long centuries. An individual human might have a relatively short life span, but a human nature or culture preserves traditions with origins far beyond the reach of any single human’s memory. They live fully in the present - making them well suited to the adventuring life - but also plan for the future, striving to leave a lasting legacy. Individually and as a group, humans are adaptable opportunists, and they stay alert to changing political and social dynamics.

Lasting Institutions
Where a single elf or dwarf might take on the responsibility of guarding a special location or a powerful secret, humans found sacred orders and institutions for such purposes. While dwarf clans and halfling elders pass on the ancient traditions to each new generation, human temples, governments, libraries and codes of law fix their traditions in the bedrock of history. Humans dream of immortality, but (except for those few who seek undeath or divine ascension to escape death’s clutches) they achieve it by ensuring that they will be remembered when they are gone.
Although some humans are xenophobic, in general their societies are inclusive. Human lands welcome large numbers of nonhumans compared to the proportion of humans who live in nonhuman lands.

Exemplars of Ambition
Humans who seek adventure are the most daring and ambitious members of a daring and ambitious race. They seek to earn glory in the eyes of their fellows by amassing power, wealth, and fame. More than other people, humans champion causes rather than territories or groups.

Names
(Male) Aesir, Zasheir, Fodel, Igan, Ivor, Kosef, Sergor, Ander, Bran, Lander, Stor, Taman, Urth, Aoth, Bareris, Ehput-ki, Kethoth, Mumed, Ramas, So-Kehur, Thazar-De, Urhur, Borivik, Farugar, Jandar, Kanithar, Madislak, Ralmevik, Shaumar, Vladislak, Chen, Fai, Jiang, Lian, Long, Meng, Shan, Shui, Wen, Anton, Diero, Marcon, Pieron, Rimardo, Romero, Salazar, Umbero, Kiowan

(Female) Atala, Ceidil, Jasmal, Meilil, Alethra, Kara, Katernin, Mara, Natali, Zora, Amafrey, Betha, Cefrey, Silifrey, Westra, Arizima, Chathi, Nephis, Nulara, Murithi, Sefris, Thola, Umara, Zolis, Fyevarra, Hulmarra, Immith, Imzel, Navarra, Shevarra, Tammith, Yuldra, Bai, Chao, Jia, Lei, Mei, Qiao, Shui, Tai, Balama, Dona, Faila, Jalana, Luisa, Marta, Quara, Selise, Vonda, Sorrena

(Surnames) Basha, Dumein, Khalid, Pashar, Rein, Berk, Chernin, Dotsk, Kulenov, Marsk, Starag, Brightwood, Helder, Hornraven, Lackman, Stormwind, Windrivver, Ankhalab, Fezim, Hahpet, Nathandem, Sepret, Uuthrakt, Chergoba, Dyernina, Iltazyara, Murnyethara, Stayanoga, Ulmokina, Chien, Huang, Kao, Kung, Lao, Ling, Mei, Pin, Shin, Sum, Tan, Wan, Agosto, Astorio, Calabra, Domine, Falone, Marivaldi, Pisacar, Ramando

Human Traits
It’s hard to generalize about humans, but your human character has these traits.
Ability Score Increase. You increase one stat of your choice by 2.
Age. Humans reach adulthood in their mid- to late-teens and live less than a century.
Alignment. Humans tend towards no particular alignment. The best and the worst are found among them.
Size. Humans very widely in height and build, from barely 5 feet to well over 6 feet tall. Regardless of your position in that range, your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Quick Learners: You halve the time it takes you to learn new tool proficiencies in downtime.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one extra language of your choice. Humans typically learn the languages of the other peoples they deal with, including obscure dialects. They are fond of sprinkling their speech with words borrowed from other tongues; Orc curses, Elvish musical expressions, Dwarvish military phrases, and so on.
Subraces. There are several areas where humans reside, but three are the most different: the slaves born in the aeries, the tribesmen of the plains and forests, and the average people of villages, towns, and cities.

Aeriebred
You were born in one of the aeries, specifically bred to be beautiful, subservient and able. The most commonly desired features of the Aeriebred humans were blonde or red hair, green or hazel eyes, light golden skin, and a light and lithe build, averaging under 5’6”.
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 1.
Errand-Runner. You have learned to deal with close quarters, both in public and private, through alleyways, corridors and markets, as well as dealing with stubborn and greedy merchants. Your speed increases by 5 feet, and you gain proficiency in Persuasion.
“Yes, Master.” You were assigned a specific task to fulfill, and were punished when you disregarded your duty or performed badly. As such, you have proficiency in one artisan tool, herbalism kit, or a gaming set, depending on what your duty was.
Language. You can understand (and speak fragments of) the languages of the aeries - Airran/Aarakocra and Elvish. You do not get an additional language until you have left the aeries and decide to learn one.

Tribesperson
You were born into one of the nomadic tribes of Eostara, and have lived amongst the spirits, elements (literally) and your elders. You have a deep respect of the dead, nature and your tribe. You are also of heavier stock than other humans, having been exposed to rain, snow, sun and wind the entirety of your life, nearly without break. There are many tribes from many locales, ranging from the snowy northern lands to the hot and humid jungles of the far reaches.
Ability Score Increase. Your Constitution score increases by 1.
Scenic Route. Your legs were made for walking - your speed increases by 10 feet.
Toughness. Your hit point maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 each time you gain a level.
Pantheons: Each nomadic tribe usually claims a different region they move around in, and revere certain aspects of relevant locations and subjects to be led by a deity. They often have overlap between each other and the gods of the more civilized.
Far Northern Pantheon (Inuit)

Akaia (Gaia, Akna) goddess of fertility
Agulek (Agloolik) child god of hunting and fishing
Amog/Amok (Amagug/Amarok) twin wolf gods who take those foolish enough to hunt alone at night
Angura (Anguta) god of the dead, carrier to rest
Igiluug goddess of the sun, warmth, fire and home
Nanuik (Nanuk) god of polar bears
Pengua (Pinga) goddess of fertility, the hunt, and medicine
Kailerteteng (Qailertetang)
Senma (Sedna/Senna, Nerrivik, Arnapkapfaluuk, Arnakuagsak, Nuliajuk) mistress of sea animals
Selia (Sila) personification of the air
Qataitsentok (Tekkeitsertock) master of caribou

Grassland Pantheon (African & Native American)

X

Townsfolk
You were born into one of the more civilized and equal areas of Eostara, be it a small town or sprawling city.
Ability Score Increase. Your Charisma score increases by 1.
Slice of Life: You may select one from the options below as it fits your lifestyle.

City: +1 Charisma, Persuasion Proficiency
Clerk: +1 Intelligence, 1 language
Coward: +1 Dexterity, +10 walking speed when running away
Lazy: +1 Charisma, Learn 1 gaming set or instrument proficiency
Farmhand: +1 Strength, +30 lbs. Carry weight. Athletics proficiency
Military 1: +1 Strength, Gain Proficiency in 2 weapons
Military 2: +1 Constitution, Gain Proficiency in light armor
Musician: +1 Charisma Gain proficiency in Performance and 1 instrument
Religious: +1 Wisdom, Gain proficiency in religion
Scholar: +1 Intelligence, Gain proficiency in one knowledge skill
Ghetto: +1 Charisma, Gain proficiency in Intimidate
Tradesman: +1 Wisdom, Gain Proficiency in 1 tool

Darklady2831

2016-05-26, 12:28 PM

My setting mostly have bog standard PC races, but I've done a bit of changing up for many monsters. Examples below:

Dragons are all one race, with subraces varying only slightly in appearance and ability. Cold Drakes breathe clouds of liquid nitrogen, have a slight pale blueish tinge to their scales, but are otherwise indistinguishable from the Fire Drakes that spew gouts of flame and have a reddish tinge to their scales. There is no distinction between Chromatic or Metallic Dragons, and any kind of Dragon can be any alignment. Many Dragons are incredibly proud, and they are sometimes worshipped as gods by primitive races like goblins.
Aranea are not shapeshifters, and instead appear simply as intelligent giant spiders with magical powers. They usually have bright colouring and look like giant versions of the more venomous spider specimens. They also have the innate ability to telepathically direct lesser spiders to do their bidding. They're also bigger than usual, an adult being the size of a horse rather than the size of a man.
Goblins are small, weak, and stupid. They're incredibly primitive, with most of them just barely capable of making stone tools. They are afraid of fire, but can be conditioned or intimidated into acting cool in its presence. Goblins are either wild nomadic tribes that avoid the 'civilized races', or large hordes used by other races as slaves and fodder.
Rakshasa are not inherently Evil, and instead act as trickster spirits in service to the God of Madness and Tomfoolery.
Hobgoblins are intelligent and organized, forming empires and kingdoms as often as humans do. They are to Goblins what humans are to Chimpanzees.
Bugbears are to Hobgoblins what Neanderthals are to humans. Brutish, strong, and animalistic, but not stupid or foolish. Primitive compared to Hobgoblins, yes, but fully capable of thinking rationally and very cunning.
Gnomes and Halflings come from the same ancestors. The difference is that Gnomes prefer to stay in one place and live comfortably, while Halflings prefer to go out into the wider world and explore. Over time, these cultural differences have evolved into physical differences.

Deepbluediver

2016-05-26, 08:37 PM

Rakshasa are not inherently Evil, and instead act as trickster spirits in service to the God of Madness and Tomfoolery.
I'm glad someone else picked on the potentialof the Rakshasa- IMO the fact they don't get more press (possibly due to being outsiders and therefor not a normally accepted race for PCs) is a tragedy.

Goblins are small, weak, and stupid. They're incredibly primitive, with most of them just barely capable of making stone tools. They are afraid of fire, but can be conditioned or intimidated into acting cool in its presence. Goblins are either wild nomadic tribes that avoid the 'civilized races', or large hordes used by other races as slaves and fodder.
Hobgoblins are intelligent and organized, forming empires and kingdoms as often as humans do. They are to Goblins what humans are to Chimpanzees.
Bugbears are to Hobgoblins what Neanderthals are to humans. Brutish, strong, and animalistic, but not stupid or foolish. Primitive compared to Hobgoblins, yes, but fully capable of thinking rationally and very cunning.
That's interesting- in my setting I couldn't decide how Bugbears fit in to the Goblin/Hobgoblin relationship so I simply left them out. This could be a form of relationship I had not considered, and I like it.

Darklady2831

2016-05-28, 01:29 AM

I'm glad someone else picked on the potentialof the Rakshasa- IMO the fact they don't get more press (possibly due to being outsiders and therefor not a normally accepted race for PCs) is a tragedy.

Right? To be honest though, the inspiration for my Rakshasa came from the new Rakshasa miniature from WotC's Monster Menagerie line of miniatures. He's sitting in this pose with one hand in his pocket and holding a pipe as if he's just smoked from it and is now smirking at the mischief he's caused. And he's wearing this red coat with pale green pants with this dark blue cloak over his shoulders. Honestly, he reminds me of Sheogorath from The Elder Scrolls, if he was a Rakshasa.

That's interesting- in my setting I could decide how Bugbears fit in to the Goblin/Hobgoblin relationship so I simply left them out. This could be a form of relationship I had not considered, and I like it.

I've long loved Bugbears, and so I really needed a way to keep them. I figured that I might as well keep the Goblinoid subtype, so I had to do some thinking. The Neanderthal - Homo Sapiens relationship felt like a really good way to go, as all evidence points to Neanderthals being almost as smart as us (at the time, of course). So I decided that Bugbears would be a bigger and more animalistic offshoot of the Hobgoblin race. Of course, I also had to decide that Hobgoblins were the 'dominant' members of that whole racial tree, just as humans turned out to be the dominant hominids in real life.

Everyl

2016-05-28, 05:59 AM

All this talk about bugbears reminds me of something I forgot to mention about my setting back on page 1 of this thread.

I limited the races to a set of 15 "mortal" races, including standard PC races, common "enemy" races like hobgoblins and orcs, and a few nonhumanoid and/or aquatic races. For cosmological reasons outside the scope of this thread, those races are the only ones capable of gaining class levels in the setting, and they are all capable of interbreeding with one another and producing viable offspring, though some of the more physically disparate races need magical aid for the physical act of mating. Some common D&D races outside the core 15 exist as mixed-ancestry populations of the 15 originals. For example, goblins are descended from hobgoblins and gnomes, while bugbears are descended from hobgoblins and giants. Some of the hybrid races are populous enough to have their own name, as opposed to the occasional half-orc or half-elf in a mostly-human society.

I also did away with all racial alignments in the setting. The default alignments roughly correspond with stereotypes about those races in the mostly-human region where I ran games in an earlier version of the setting, but that mostly stems from past conflicts and encounters with specific cultural groups of those races.

Deepbluediver

2016-05-28, 10:32 AM

To be honest though, the inspiration for my Rakshasa came from the new Rakshasa miniature from WotC's Monster Menagerie line of miniatures.
I've never played the Elder Scrolls games, but I understand taking inspiration from anywhere you can get it and that you never know when something in particular will catch your fancy. Cartoons and anime, literature, trading-card games and videogames all have various levels of influence on my races. I played a lot of World of Warcraft back in the day, and several of my races take a page (or several) out of Blizzard's playbook.

I also did away with all racial alignments in the setting. The default alignments roughly correspond with stereotypes about those races in the mostly-human region where I ran games in an earlier version of the setting, but that mostly stems from past conflicts and encounters with specific cultural groups of those races.
See, I kept a sort-of racial alignment, but I was very explicit that it's more of a cultural thing than genetic. And one of the biggest reasons for a humanoid to leave home and set out on a life of adventure is that they don't get along with any of their own kind. So any PC can be any race/alignment combination, and even NPCs that you meet randomly can be of non-standard alignment. The race-as-culture-and-alignment usually only comes up in large, homogeneous groups where it's a useful visual clue for the PCs as they decide how they want to approach social encounters (for varying definitions of "social" :smallwink:).

I also tried to think through how a race's other characteristics and alignment would work together to produce a more detailed level of culture than goblins-are-evil-because-of-reasons. For example, Mountain Dwarves are in my setting are chaotic-good, and their culture is a combination of honorable-warrior society and perpetual frat-party. Think of a college-town on the weekend of a big football game. Then the Duergar (deep dwarves), who aren't good, keep some of the same characteristics but with a darker spin- the cliquishness, secret societies, and rivalry are still there, but without the good-natured fun. They are more like soccer-hooligans.

DuctTapeKatar

2016-05-30, 05:39 PM

A thought I had about the Drow recently was me asking "Why are they always associated with spiders? If you take a look at their hierarchy, they're more like ants!" That sparked a brilliant idea. I typically found that Drow being evil is dull, but then a lot of people say that's what the best part about them is: the evil, so I don't want to mess around too much with that. So if they have more of a ant-like society, then that could make the whole back-stabbing thing a bit more understanding. Ants' don't let anyone other than the queen reproduce. So, if one Drow wants to have kids, they'd have to go through the queen, or at least ask for permission. But this means that if only the queen is able to bone with whomever she wants, the idea that everyone is trying to kill each-other makes more sense, since the amount of princesses and princes would be ridiculous ("I am the 556th prince of this land, and I demand respect!"). But I think that the largest thing that would make this ant-based society more fitting is that there is an ant species which takes brood from other colonies. I mean, how fitting is that?

Next, I thought, "If the Drow are ants, that must make Wood Elves termites!" But, seriously, let's get to the big stuff. They work similar to the Drow, with the execption being that their alignment would be more on the good side. Big hierarchy, soldiers appointed at birth, yadda yadda ya. The largest difference would be that the Wood Elven Queens have a specified king, so their hereditary line would be less chaotic than the Drow. Not to say that there would be no backstabbing, but there would be a line of respect for their peers. Their soldiers would have some degree of power, often acting as lords of knights as servants swarm (see what I did there?) at their ankles. Every now and again, you'd get a few strangers passing through their lands, but as long as they don't outstay their welcome, they'd be fine.

For high-elves... I got nothing. Bees? Wasps? I dunno. I can't think of anything. I know that there are social spiders out there, but I'm not very sure about what they should act like.

Deepbluediver

2016-05-30, 06:35 PM

For high-elves... I got nothing. Bees? Wasps? I dunno. I can't think of anything. I know that there are social spiders out there, but I'm not very sure about what they should act like.
I'm not sure what your high-elves are like; if you want help maybe give us some details.

Most versions of high-elves or the equivalent tend to make them very powerful, skillful crafters, skilled at magic etc, and if you look for creature that creates very elaborate constructs you come back around, ironically, to the spider. Somewhat more solitary and distinct from other insects (ok I know spiders aren't insects) seems like it might fight high-elves well.

If you're looking to play up the beauty and grace characteristics, maybe you'd prefer butterflies or dragonflies instead?

shawnhcorey

2016-05-30, 07:29 PM

Well, since we are on animal motifs, I was thinking of patterning orcs after lions. The females form a harem where their daughters remain with their mothers, for the most part. The young males are driven away by their father when they reach puberty. They form roaming bachelor bands which going around looking for a harem they can take over, by killing or driving off its males. It's these roaming bands that give the orcs their bad reputation. These are the orcs that are likely to wander into territory of the other races and can havoc.

Weirdlet

2016-06-03, 03:15 PM

Few spins I've thought of, but haven't had the chance to use in a game-

Drow: The elves of the desert. Matrons ride in howdahs on the backs of giant spiders, their children tumbling over the carapaces while male outriders keep watch with scimitars drawn. Their caravans stretch between their city hidden in the stone cliffs, and a myriad of small dens, tunnels under the sand reinforced with spider-silk. They're not evil- just territorial and protective of their monopoly on certain spice/perfume bushes and used to living in a harsh environment.

Elves: For a more ElfQuesty type elf, use Ghostwise halflings. Little, secretive, and able to 'send' (communicate psychically) with anyone who speaks the same language within 20 feet.

Half-elves: Primarily the descendants of a disgraced high elven princess, who sullied herself with a human ranger and had to become a mercenary to support herself when she was cast out. By the time her eldest aged and died, she was a grandmother and great grandmother many times over despite being newly into her prime, and determined that no descendant of hers would ever feel alone or unaided in this world- and by then, the family business was strong enough that the mercenary company they had become was practically a fiefdom unto itself. Complete with castle, lands and a reputation for being the best of the best due to experience in wars beyond living human memory, and a few judicious elven magical and technological secrets being passed down.

There are other lineages of half-elves from other parents in the world, but the fabled Wild Rose mercenary company ends up recruiting a lot of them.

Orcs: Orcs are what happens when elves/fey are tortured with iron, their very souls burnt with it. Their bodies are tough and twisted, healing what would kill others and unable to die of mere old age unless they've got a lot of 'goblin' blood- and even then, they get old early and they live a long, long time unless killed. Heaven won't have them and Hell can't hold them- their souls are rejected from all of the various afterlives, so they reincarnate constantly, and if a powerful enough mage has a big enough stockpile of dirt, dead bodies and alchemical muck, they can literally grow their own 'pit-born' orcs, or 'goblins'. Much more independent and trainable than undead, but still obedient to their creators if the 'high orcs' don't start infecting them with thoughts of rebellion.

Ugly, angry, and knowing deep in their bones that there is no rest, no peace: only war. No wonder they don't get along with anyone else.

Pictogram

2016-06-04, 12:02 AM

In my world ( which is in the works) I have several key differences in race. Humans have the same base underlining stats ( pathfinder) but also a little more depending on what culture you come from. My dwarfs are completely overhauled, my setting is an endless desert world so this completely changes what dwarf's traditionally are. My Dwarf's are semi replacing orcs in a way, being the barbaric plague upon society, but also different, even more animal. My Dwarf's have a burrowing speed ( only in the sand/sand dunes), a natural bite attack ( they look like your traditional fantasy dwarf, EXCEPT their heads and jaws are quite larger. They won't have sharp teeth, but rather huge flat blunt like teeth with tremendous jaw power. And an ability to heal from eating the dead; which also plays in societal aspects from consuming their enemies and ancestors in a ritualistic fashion.

There are also no elves, halflings, gnomes, orcs/ half orcs in my setting.

Grim Portent

2016-06-04, 07:46 PM

I'm currently working on an idea for how to fit elves into a dark fantasy setting I'm working on. The current plan for elves is for them to be an exiled race of fey, cast out for committing the first and only murder in the fey realm.

Originally second only to the Horned Lord, ruler of all fey, in the ranks of the fey the elves were spirits of the hunt, nobility and pride and they accompanied their lord on his great hunts in the mortal realm. The most favoured of the elves slew the leader of the pixies after his sword was stolen by the lesser fey and he was forced to miss a hunt because he was searching for it. When punishment was laid at the feet of the elf lord his kinsfolk stood with him, and were exiled to dwell forever in the mortal realm.

The fallen elves are a sad sight compared to their original grandeur. The mortal plane is not friendly to fey who have lost their link to their homeland. They are now mortal, able to be diseased, must give birth to continue their kind, have to eat and drink to live and are struck with a terrible spiritual malaise. Every elf is born with sorrowful memories of a world they have never seen and never can see. Every breath of air is contrasted with the perfumed scent of the fey winds that were once their birthright. Every sip of water, every mouthful of food, every sensation is unfulfilling and pale compared to their racial memories of the fey realm, with few exceptions. The thrill of the hunt was always a sensation experienced in the mortal realm, and it serves as one of the few ways elves can escape from the malaise that plagues their existence. Other experiences tied to the mortal realm still captivate the senses, song and sex and other hedonistic delights are not native to the fey realm, and cannot be lessened by their exile.

The mortal elves have become a hedonistic and decadent race. Lead by the immortal elves that were first exiled from their homelands they bury their loss in debauchery, impotent rage and works of vainglorious pride. Dwelling on an island hidden by mists they only rarely enter the realms of men, usually to hunt and murder or kidnap humans, much like they once did in service to the Horned Lord. Some few choose to wander the world, seeking out new and unknown sensations that they cannot find in their own land.

Elves are hated and feared as much as the true fey they are descended from, at least by those subject to their predations. As you travel further from their land people are less familiar with their cruel acts, often associating them more with hedonism and debauchery than sadism. Many humans think of elves as gluttons, drunkards and whoremongers rather than cruel pirates and sadistic hunters, for they live far from the coastal realms.

Oudyn

2016-06-05, 02:05 PM

kraftcheese

2016-06-07, 07:22 AM

I'd like to talk about elves, and how I use them. Also, vampires.

Elves are a very divorced subspecies of modern human. In my setting, elves are not vegetarians. In fact, they are quite close to carnivorous, with elongated canines and such. Their tall builds with long arms and legs are perfect for sprinting, leaping and chasing down prey, at times swinging from branches as if they were a sort of demented monkey. They have large pointed ears that can be rotated with a special set of muscles for better directional hearing. Living deep in the dark and secluded forest, elves are pale and possess eyes that glow faintly, a la some cats. When introduced to human society, elven children display an odd propensity for intellectual professions, perhaps because their long lifespans enable them more time to ponder than almost any other race. Elves are thought to have long lifespans compared to other humans at least in part for the same reason all apex predators do: a small population and low reproductive rate is necessary for ecological balance.

For the most part, other races avoid elves, as they are dangerous and often xenophobic. Even though vampires are indeed real, it is widely believed that their sharing of elven physical traits is not a mistake. In fact, an ancient and seldom-known legend may have a grain of truth to it. It is said that in the old days, when the world was still whole, the first necromancer walked the earth. He brought back the dead as mindless beasts, but eventually he grew old. He became transfixed with the idea of immortality, and sought to create a magnum opus; a sentient undead from for himself. Eventually, he came across an ancient forest, and in it lived an ancient race: the elf. When he laid eyes upon this race, his twisted mind saw what the thought was perfection. Inspired by the body and diet of the elves, he made himself into the first vampire. Not quite living, but not nearly as dead as the other undead. Or so the legend tells. Others speak of the first vampire being an elf. Others still say that the pale thin, fanged visage they share is simply that of death himself.

What do you think, at least as an idea?

I think it's a great idea! I mean the whole "vampires are linked to elves" is very fun:

-Maybe you could play around with the "vampires can't cross a threshold" thing having something to do with elves being linked to the land, and in undeath the vampire doesn't have dominion over land claimed by civilization?

-I was also thinking about how alliums (onion, garlic, leek, etc.) are poisonous to dogs and cats (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=are+alliums+poisonous+to+dogs&rlz=1C1NOOH_enAU498AU498&oq=are+alliums+poisonous+to+dogs&aqs=chrome..69i57.5600j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) as they can't digest certain sulfur compounds in them. Maybe vampires hate garlic (you could extend it to onion and leek I guess?) because of the elven carnivorous nature (making them unable to digest it), but in undeath it's dialed up to 11, they have a strong aversion to the smell and severe allergic reaction to contact with alliums (maybe vampire hunters coat their weapons with garlic paste?).

WantLearn

2016-06-17, 02:13 PM

Idea I came up with a while back was a tribe of plains elves. They lived in small farming villages and spend most of their days growing grains and vegetables, but at night once the sun and moon go down they go and hunt the herd animals on the plain by starlight. Since they are perfectly comfortable by starlight, they wear heavy hoods and blindfolds during the day and sleep during the midday and dusk periods to help maintain their night vision as too long in the sun can make them night blind. Their favored weapons are spears and while they know how to use bows, they consider a leaping kill with a spear the epitome of the graceful hunter.

2D8HP

2016-06-17, 06:13 PM

Idea I came up with a while back was a tribe of plains elves. After reading "Empire of the Summer Moon" (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/books/review/excerpt-empire-of-the-summer-moon.html) I had thought of introducing a plains riding "Cheyenne" culture, and since human is boring (and since every other PC "race" except maybe half-orcs just seem like short humans), your suggestion of Elves is perfect!
Thanks!

RossN

2016-06-27, 11:41 AM

My 'dwarves' combine traits of standard dwarves and gnomes and mechanically are much closer to the latter.

They live in mountain cities, are skilled craftsmen and greedy about gold but they are far better spellcasters and rogues than warriors, preferring to rely on illusions and stealth rather than axes.

Bohandas

2016-06-28, 08:56 AM

One possible solution would to be slightly tweak the elemental planes to actually exemplify the four states of matter, which they already map to anyway, with the elements idea merely being a common misinterpretation. This gets less easy to do if you're also using paraelemental and quasielemental planes though.

Or possibly the true primary elemental planes are the quasielemental plane of lightning and the paraelemental plane of ooze-->acid-->the proton

Tzi

2016-06-28, 07:25 PM

The major distinction is that race is somewhat loosely defined. Elf and human are generally the most similar looking save for Drow elves.

What is said is that the there forerunner races, the dwarves, the gnomes and the goblins represent forerunners to the current peoples of the world. With gnomes being the primeval elf, dwarves the primeval human and goblin in theory the primeval Orc and hobgoblin and ogre. All three were forged from a common ancestor at some point thus they are kinfolk but appearances vary.

Goblins are still numerous in the world, and even gnomes are still widely seen. Primeval man however is nearly gone, though humans are very numerous today.

Elves call themselves the Eldar now, but are rather ironically the youngest or the last to emerge, but their early draw to magic and writing made them the first to really develop what could be called civilisations.

There are whole groups of people whom are a mix of human and elf.

Orc's precise origins are unknown but it is believed they are of the goblins, much as humans are from dwarves and Elves from gnomes. It is widely believed Dwarves, Goblins and Gnomes were much more similar as well and indeed gnome and dwarf are incredibly similar, save for dwarves nearly being extinct now.

Humans are not necessarily jack of all trades, but they are the most healthy and sturdy of the three. Human's are notable for their good health, both mental and physical.

Ursus Spelaeus

2016-06-28, 08:16 PM

I'm a big fan of The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan. The kiriath and the dwenda are both really cool takes on classic fantasy races and I would like to use those in a campaign.

2D8HP

2016-06-28, 08:58 PM

When forced to DM/GM/"Referee" (I prefer to be a player and explore a fantastic world, not to create it), I like how Castle Falkenstein had three main races:
Humans,
Dragons (intelligent pterosaurs), and the
shapeshifting Sidhe. (http://celticsociety.freeservers.com/sidhe.html)

Also I like the version of the Elves from Terry Pratchett's "Lord's and Ladies", because scary. :smallfrown:

Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.

JBPuffin

2016-06-28, 10:28 PM

A while back, when I was building a Magic: the Gathering world for a set that I decided to also use as a 5e setting, I messed around with the races some. Here's what I've got (along with color combos b/c I used them for alignment >.>):

Humans - Divided strongly into cultures: Beterran (Dimir swamp necromancers), Colsiena (Jeskai meritocracy), Grasaedi (Gruul nature-loving barbarians, originally defectors from Colsien who left to be with their nonhuman lovers), and Otherlander (the Variant Human, covering for all the other nations which are largely human in nature)
Draconians - Boros dragonborn, a true-breeding crossbreed of dragons ("drakes") and humans. Primarily the willing servants of the drakes of mountain-bound Ark-Nasi
Dryads - Original residents of the forest-covered Grasaed and what made many humans want to live there; perfectly-playable Naya race of tree-hugging (literally) plantfolk
Kairen - Temur-White dryad-human mix, resulting in the strongest halflings ever created. Statted as a halfing subrace, live in Grasaed or Wavos, a coastal nation
Tieflings - Esper descendants of a Beterran line who dabbled with the eldritch-horror infernal beings. Think your typical 5e tiefling, but with psychic powers instead of the usual sulphur and brimstone
Graveborn - Sentient undead created by a ritual invented by the first lich-king of Beterran state; a mix of Beterrans wishing to remain active and fallen soldiers from other sides, meaning alignments vary wildly

Stopped making the set a while back, but I might do something with the world since I still have the file...Main thing for me was making halflings half-dryads. Who'd have thunk it?

nrg89

2016-06-29, 05:20 PM

A while back, when I was building a Magic: the Gathering world for a set that I decided to also use as a 5e setting, I messed around with the races some. Here's what I've got (along with color combos b/c I used them for alignment >.>):

I'm currently building my setting using the five colors as a guiding principle too, because I think they can explain not only the ideals of a civilization but also who would be it's most natural enemies and it's most natural friends. of course, the combinations means that there's always internal conflict within, because a true white, true black, true blue, true green or true red civilization would be very boring since there's no inner conflict, in my opinion.

Rakshasa are really cool and their animal heads make them too good for an ancient setting to pass on for me, they fit the atmosphere perfectly. However, they're often depicted as working behind the scenes as a loner, or in a very small clique, which is not something I envision for a rakshasa who really wants to make a splash in the ancient world and have an everlasting legacy. I want my Rakshasa to be more like Crassus than Cicero, someone who wants to be remembered as a great commander, a builder of monuments and a filthy rich being who has the hard power to influence anyone. So, I had to make people give their lives for a Rakshasa even though they know she will keep the lion's share of the power, and make sure it pays more to follow them than cross them.
My twist on Rakshasa is that they are the keepers of sorcery. If you want to get that power you must provide a Rakshasa with a sacrifice. The Rakshasa build a loyal entourage of sorcerers who help her govern a city. Sorcerers in the rest of the world are feared and often persecuted because they are regarded as greedy and immoral. This gives tons of roleplaying opportunities because the PC who chose to be a sorcerer might not have made the sacrifice, her parents might have done it, but it also puts a lot of responsibility with the DM to not be a jerk and make the campaign about being a fugitive. There are as many people who fear sorcerers as those who value the services they can provide.
The Rakshasa also need certain types of sacrifices to make sure that they're reborn again in the event that they die. When they do die their army is entombed with them in a structure that's reminiscent of the pyramids in Egypt. Once they've returned to their city they visit their own tomb, raise their army from the dead and keep fighting for their own personal wealth and glory.
(For those who are more MTG inclined, the Rakshasa make up the center of the black civilizations and are very, very black)

In a completely different setting, I have elves possessing something similar to white guilt. The elves came from a completely different continent and revere water and with very powerful arcane magic they built a huge empire that could produce large surpluses of food by diverting other rivers to their huge alluvial plain that was the heart of their empire. These kingdoms didn't even need to be conquered, they surrendered as long as they could get at least some water from them while those who didn't died in horrible famines and droughts. But, later on the empire was overthrown when a god intervened and taught a human how to wield divine magic, who became the first cleric, and the elves were thrown out of power. Now that some time has passed the elves are still not allowed in high positions and there is some real racial tensions between the humans and the elves. The elves are torn between those who accept that they have to work with the humans now and those that think the elves are the ones more suited to rule the world since they introduced arcane magic.
The elves are far fewer than the humans because they are not very fertile, that's why they live for 200 years. A human couple will, on average, try for about a year or two to get babies before it works but elves might have to try for decades before they bare even a single offspring.

MintyNinja

2016-07-15, 04:37 PM

Just wanted a chance to share my own variations here. If the name Vansterman means anything to you, consider the following meta-knowledge.

Humans and Halflings have been living together for countless generations in their own well protected valley. They have a small kingdom and aren't aware of any other race's existence. Some things will happen and soon they'll be out populating and discovering the wide world around them, but that's the first campaign.

Dwarves are highly regimented, somewhat superstitious folk with a very rigid caste system and a reverence for the number seven. They inhabit the insides of their mountain chain which splits the continent into east and west. They do not concern themselves overly much with the outside world.

Elves are accidental refugees caused by a catastrophic event in the feywild. Their entire city was shunted over to the material plane along with a wide range of land around it. The Surface elves are haughty, self aggrandizing egoists. They eventually capture a human exploration vessel and subject them to slavery and eugenics for centuries. This creates half-elves, a slightly more tolerated slave class in the Gladelands. Some human slaves escape and make pacts with a Great Old One to become Yuan-ti.

Drow were brought over with the elves but stayed far below in the Underdark. At one point there will be a serious schism in the drow and two elven new subtypes will emerge: Night Elves and Drowned Elves. Night Elves will be a small, pious group of Drow that flee to a surface forest and try to start over. Drowned Elves will be forever servants of Aboleth masters deep in the Underdark.

Tieflings will be human refugees sold to Asmodeous at a critical point in history and become his first people. Once their freedom is regained they will become harbingers of freedom and individuality, giving the west a much more mercenary / wild west motif.

Dragonborn are the descendants and personal soldiers of dragons on their own far off continent. After arriving to the "Main" continent, they'll be mostly mercenaries with strong warrior traditions and honor codes.

Inchoroi

2016-08-06, 09:49 PM

In my world there are the pure-breed races--Humans, Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, and Halflings--and the half-breeds: half-elves, half-dwarves, half-orcs (of course, orcs are a pure-breed race, but I don't include them as player races, so didn't bother including them here), tieflings, and aasimar.

The tieflings are literal half-demon children, and are usually treated as such. Aasimar are cut from a similar cloth, being half-celestial; they have different challenges, being seen as "half-divine" has disadvantages when people get angry because their pet wive's tale doesn't turn out to be true.

To date, there have not been any "half-gnomes" or "half-Halflings"; no one knows why in-world, currently, but any successful relationships don't produce viable offspring. This is because gnomes and halflings are technically fey creatures, but unlike the elves, possess a different genome and so are unable to crossbreed; the main races all evolved from progenitor races that came about around the same time. The world is considerably bigger than Earth, by almost double.

The gnomes and halflings are leftovers, essentially, from when the fey gods pulled their domain from the Material Plane and created Faerie; in one possible adventure, the players would get to meet a "fey god", which would be analogous to Queen Titania, who casually mentions that she knows the high elven god from when he created the ancestors of the elves.

Half-breeds sometimes have a rough time of life; racism runs high in some places, and, depending on your mix, you might get treated differently.

Gwaednerth

2016-08-06, 10:51 PM

It varies wildly by world for me.

In my current setting, it's not too well worked out. I definitely want the orcs to be a more cultured race than they typically are. I might make them sort of Ottoman-esque. Other than that the big difference will be with the half- versus pure- breed races. Each pure race has at most somewhere around 80% mutual intelligibility with each other in the spoken language, even if they live in the same city (it's about 90% for the same race in different cities) and each race uses a different alphabet, making written communication impossible. However, there are half-breeds of any combination (human-nonhuman or nonhuman-nonhuman, including, if rarely, more monstrous races like kobolds) and although they are, on the one hand, despised as a vestige of the old Empire and an insult to the current nationalistic, ethnicistic tendencies of the region, they are also the main body of the incredibly powerful merchant class because they are not accepted enough in any community to settle down, they have been brought up bilingual so they can more easily gain local contacts, and many of them have passed down the old imperial high tongue (formerly a church language, but now used predominantly by merchants and a few high-cultural elites as a lingua franca) in addition to both of their racial dialects of the low tongue, which gives them a sense of being a single (if incredibly diverse) community.

Chuhn

2016-08-07, 02:13 AM

Ive changed Elves to be cannibalistic, almost like the Dark Sun Halflings. Humans live in cloud cities and worships Djinn's, laughing at the below races!!

Jendekit

2016-08-07, 10:52 AM

In the Braenlo region of a setting I'm working on with a buddy of mine, the PCs are inadvertently witnessing the birth of a new PC race called the Bo'grah. Essentially think Yellow Musk Zombies mixed with Warforged. Warforged in that they are independent, sapient, and created; YMZ in that they are created through a specially cultivated fungus that repurposes and alters dead bodies into what the PCs are calling "plant zombies".

Bohandas

2016-08-07, 06:17 PM

I've been tossing around the idea that, since Illithids come from the future, it would be ironic if they were in fact descended from gith-kin

BladeofObliviom

2016-08-13, 06:53 AM

Well, the Dwarves and Humans in the main setting I'm working on right now are pretty vanilla. Nothing too special going on there. The other core races, though...

- The Elves aren't a distinct race so much as they are humans warped by Faerie. Generally (though not always), this is because they were stolen as infants and eventually escaped, forever changed but still grasping a shred of their humanity. (Half-Elves are, naturally, the result of Elves intermingling back into human populations. They've still got a taste of Faerie in their blood, but they aren't otherwise too weird.)

- The Gnomes are more or less as Elves, but from a Dwarven base. Faeries are jerks to everyone.

- The Halflings are seemingly eternal children; think Peter Pan. Halflings are a twisted mirror to Elves: Where Elves are people whose childhoods were stolen from them by the Fey, Halflings are those unfortunate enough to have their future and potential stolen instead. Halflings do not age or mature, physically or emotionally, and remain childlike until they meet a violent or otherwise untimely end.

- Half-Orcs are actually pretty much normal, with the caveat that Orcs are either extinct or close enough: The last Dwarven King performed genocide, and did so with ruthless efficiency. Many Half-Orcs survived, but most are in truth no more than a quarter or eighth Orcish, or else they were orphaned during those bloody years. Half-Orcs are still around, but they'll likely cease to exist as a group distinct from humanity within a scant few generations.

- Full Orcs are extinct or all but. However, in their heyday the typical "Orc" image was more of a stereotype than anything; a few nomadic groups of them caused trouble for humans and dwarves, and it was easy enough to other them as a bunch of green savages. It wasn't really indicative of reality, though: The City-State of Valzodh was a burgeoning democracy (in fact it may have been the first democratic state to develop, though some historians might argue the point), and one of the most culturally-rich and wealthy cities in the known world, at least until Genocidal Dwarf King shelled it with gas canisters and an unfortunate series of events turned it into the playground for some truly nasty Faeries.

RangedDM

2016-08-13, 02:12 PM

I have made a sub-race of Dwarves which live in the frozen reaches of the world and are a sea fairing people who specialize in whaling.

raygun goth

2016-08-13, 06:48 PM

For at least one setting, tore 'em all out, made 'em all ethnicities of humans. Even the gnolls and the sahuagin.

For another, I stopped treating races like horses.

KarlMarx

2016-08-15, 12:22 PM

My campaign setting is based on the Roman Empire, using the following races to loosely correspond to historical cultures:

Humans: Greeks, Romans, and other peoples of the Mediterranean region

Dwarves: Celts(hill) and Germanic peoples(mountian). Therefore, dwarves are wilder and less organized than traditional, tending towards chaotic alignments.

Elves: Many Asian peoples, most notably the Sassanid persians(high elves). Elves are highly cultured, and more in contact with divine than arcane magic. Their connection to ancient traditions causes them to take on a Lawful niche.

Gnomes and Halflings: These represent the Semitic peoples, including the Phoenicians and Carthaginians(gnomes) and Arabs/Berbers(halflings). The races are the same species, and the distinction is a product of culture and upbringing. All are highly nomadic, although Gnomes prefer to sail and Halflings are desert wanderers.

Orcs: The Orcs occupy the same position as the Huns and other steppe peoples--though they prefer to ride dire wolves to horses. While they are not without honor and do have a rudimentary culture, the Humans and other common races see them as the embodiment of their worst nightmare.

Goblinoids: The goblinoids represent a variety of pre-human mediterranean peoples, including the native Iberians and the Balkan/Dacian peoples. They are at this point sort of a catchall category, as I have focused on fleshing out the Orcs as an "enemy race" and have not yet had time to fully develop their culture.

Balyano

2016-08-16, 08:51 AM

Goblinoids: The goblinoids represent a variety of pre-human mediterranean peoples, including the native Iberians and the Balkan/Dacian peoples. They are at this point sort of a catchall category, as I have focused on fleshing out the Orcs as an "enemy race" and have not yet had time to fully develop their culture.

Could have made them egyptian, given the part of the world you are dealing with it would seem a shame not to include an egyptian analog. Or maybe that would be best for the hobgoblins.

KarlMarx

2016-08-22, 12:04 PM

Balyano

2016-08-22, 01:38 PM

That might actually work, thanks.

Would probably need a lot of work to make happen..when you hear "goblins" your first thought isn't really "Pyramids" or "ancient cultural legacy"

But would definitely make a cool adventure setting.

This made me stop and think for a second....because for the last decade or so my goblins have usually been exactly that. I've usually based them off a combination of Egypt, Babylon, Aztec, Maya, and Persia...So an ancient culture with a tendency toward pyramids and ziggurats.

Grey Watcher

2016-08-22, 04:19 PM

Clockwork333

2016-08-23, 03:52 AM

I'm generally a fan of "the fantasy races are where you expect them to be, but history/lore for why is not what you might expect."

Like in one abandoned attempt at creating a campaign setting, Orcs had one of the earliest civilizations (ie a society that builds cities, has writing, has people whose working lives are specialized (bureaucrats, soldiers, artisans, etc.). Some combination of disaster, war, rebellion, and internal collapse just about wipes out the orcs, except for some military units who were out in the desert on a fool's errand for an insane emperor (think of the pop-culture version of Caligula from our own history). With no more home to go back to, they settled into a nomadic existence, and since they were all soldiers, the resulting culture venerates warrior-type skills. And so, you have orcs as barbarians in the badlands who's main contact with other races is raiding.

Although I do like the idea of more scholarly dwarves: less smithing and mining, more architecture (same obsession with geometry as standard issue Dwarven architecture, but involves some freaking arcs and circles once in a while) and philosophy (with a heavy bent towards rationality and Enlightenment ideals over the intuition and Romantic ideals that those fru-fru Elves are so in love with).

Ooo, That's an awesome idea for all of them. Poor orcs though. ; So Dwarves are Art Deco and Elves are Art Nouveau?

Personally I'm working on a revamp of the Slaad, to make them more representative of the chaos inherent in the natural world, especially as part of evolution, to an almost contradictory degree (Evolution might be seen as an orderly thing by some, but the way it takes place is certainly chaotic) I'm not a fan of the current incarnation which are defined by their horrific ability to propagate... but are 'neutral' in name only because they're all ruled by the evil death slaad working towards total entropy for no real reason other than it's 'in their nature'.

Instead of being senselessly evil chaos froglike hybrids of werewolves and Xenomorphs, I've remade them to function as the non-deity benefactors of the frog races (Grippli, Bullywug, etc...), Kuo-Toa, and Troglodytes, still terribly chaotic, but capable of benevolence as well as evil.

Here's what I've got so far:

Slaad in their youngest state are primordial, slug and tad-pole-like creatures made mostly of slime and ooze with only a small nucleus of true flesh, but they are capable of potent shapeshifting abilities, essentially taking on new 'true' forms as they develop by incorporating characteristics from denizens of the material plane. The original nucleus of their body hardens into a powerful magical gem as they develop, this amplifies the Slaads powers, but can also be given to other beings to share this power, though the Slaad are loathe to do this as the gem can be altered to control the Slaad. Some rumors say different types of Slaad stones have different magical properties, and scholars disagree on what happens if the stone is damaged or destroyed, some say it kills the Slaad, others say it empowers or alters them in some ways.

Slaad are fascinated by evolution and extinction, and as a result, are drawn towards floundering mortal species, sapients especially but animals as well. Slaad will often observe a crumbling civilization or society and influence changes in culture, technology, magic, and biology, almost at random, simply to see what the effects will be. If pleased or intrigued by the result, the Slaad will often incorporate the alterations or their results into themselves in some way, often through their shapeshifting.

Primary Slaad:
The most common Slaad types.

Blue Slaad tend towards the appearance of large scaleless fish, similar to the Kuo-Toa they have begun altering.

Red Slaad often look more akin to leathery lizards, akin to their favored project, the Troglodytes.

Green Slaad are typically froglike, akin to Grippli, Bullywugs, and such creatures they experiment upon.

Developed Slaad:
At some point, all Slaad enter a period in their life where they transform into one of these higher forms, the process may be sudden or it may take years, but when it is complete the Slaad is altered in strange ways.

Grey Slaad are strange even among the Slaad. They are usually iguana-like beings often serving the other developed Slaad, they seem to have an eerie clarity into the nature of time and reality and are as likely to make gibbering nonsense or insults while they go about their work, as they are to maintain stoic silence only to break it with a cryptic comment even if no one else is present to hear them.

Turquoise Slaad or "Gremool" Slaad are the only Slaad that tend towards law and order, their appearances often akin to prehistoric Eryops. They often mediate between the Slaad and mortal races, and most commonly work alongside Green and Blue Slaad. Other Slaad tease them for their orderly nature, but nonetheless they stoically continue what they see as their duty to provide a grounding influence to their species and direction to its advancement.

Purple Slaad, also called "Death" Slaad, are often cobra-like in appearance. These creatures are fascinated with extinction to the exclusion of all else, and are generally evil beings that explore the decline of other species and just how many stressors can be applied before they are wiped from creation, or may simply topple an empire because they were curious how its aftermath would play out. Most commonly their minions are Red and Blue Slaad, wreaking havoc and bloody chaos.

Gold Slaad or "Laughing" Slaad are the most benevolent of Slaad, with visages like often like Axolotl and with goopy, semisolid bodies. They may give inspiration to a downhearted rebel leader fighting an evil empire, or provide a panacea to a plaguestruck region, though those healed may find themselves growing extra eyes and changing color for a few days. They often manage Red and Green Slaad, keeping them from getting out of hand on the material plane.

And finally, after eons, developed Slaad may become...

Sublime Slaad: Only a few of these maddeningly powerful beings exist, they may be any color, but it is impossible to mistake them for any other type of Slaad due to their size, power, and mishmashed features from myriad species and cultures blended together into something wholly unique. As close a thing to masters as the Slaad can have, each is an independent force, only occasionally calling upon other Slaad as they pursue their enigmatic agendas or wild extra-dimensional revelries.

VoxRationis

2016-08-23, 02:19 PM

That might actually work, thanks.

Would probably need a lot of work to make happen..when you hear "goblins" your first thought isn't really "Pyramids" or "ancient cultural legacy"

But would definitely make a cool adventure setting.

Actually, one of my settings has goblins as the inheritors of an ancient cultural legacy. They're getting steamrolled by an expansionist dwarven empire, however, which is why in the pseudo-Europe section of the world, they mostly appear as bands of primitives squatting in caves and palisade forts: they're refugees. Goblins bandits are mostly just particularly desperate refugees.

Clockwork333

2016-08-23, 11:27 PM

For another, I stopped treating races like horses.

Just noticed this, can you elaborate on what you mean? I'm really curious.

raygun goth

2016-08-23, 11:43 PM

Just noticed this, can you elaborate on what you mean? I'm really curious.

Almost no culture in the world treats the junk in your trunk as social position - "Male" or "female" doesn't describe anything except a physical property utilized in reproduction and is, in itself, inaccurate (http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943). It reduces culture to equating reproductive role with social role, and essentially reduces them as brood horses.

Basically, "male orcs are like so" and "female elves are like this" undermines the purpose of describing a culture entirely and turns the beliefs of a given set of otherwise intelligent beings into biological facts, something that real biologists have to constantly explain to people isn't true when it comes to humans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_evolutionary_psychology).

Gwaednerth

2016-08-24, 12:44 AM

Basically, "male orcs are like so" and "female elves are like this" undermines the purpose of describing a culture entirely and turns the beliefs of a given set of otherwise intelligent beings into biological facts, something that real biologists have to constantly explain to people isn't true when it comes to humans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_evolutionary_psychology).

I have to disagree, many cultures build up societal norms surrounding gender, and most conflate gender and sex. Obviously, transgression of gender norms is totally a thing, but that doesn't mean those norms are nonexistent/irrelevant.
It's entirely possible that no self-respecting Orc woman would do X, because that is considered the prerogative of the males. Maybe there are Orc feminists who do X anyway, or genderqueer Orcs who do or don't do X based on how they identify rather than the gender society assigns them, but the normative statement, "Female Orcs should never do X" is still a guiding force in Orc society, much as "Men do not wear dresses" is in ours.

BladeofObliviom

2016-08-24, 12:48 AM

While many cultures do strictly conflate gender with sex, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say "most". There are quite a lot of historical cultures that did not, and plenty that still do not.

raygun goth

2016-08-24, 01:15 AM

I have to disagree, many cultures build up societal norms surrounding gender, and most conflate gender and sex. Obviously, transgression of gender norms is totally a thing, but that doesn't mean those norms are nonexistent/irrelevant.
It's entirely possible that no self-respecting Orc woman would do X, because that is considered the prerogative of the males. Maybe there are Orc feminists who do X anyway, or genderqueer Orcs who do or don't do X based on how they identify rather than the gender society assigns them, but the normative statement, "Female Orcs should never do X" is still a guiding force in Orc society, much as "Men do not wear dresses" is in ours.

In the history of gender and sex, the United States is weird - conflation of gender and sex is a bizarre, modern outlier. This is one of the first things you learn in any anthropology course battery. Most cultures have at least three or more genders, even extremely conservative cultures like what you get in Japan or in assorted Pacific islands.

I'm not referring to the words "man" or "woman." These describe cultural roles and are, in and of themselves, also extremely modern constructs (the Lakota have at least four genders, as one example, Samoans have three, Hawaiians have at least three, several African cultures I can think of have six, and there are a lot of cultures in which I would hesitate to use the word "gender" to even describe their cultural positions - in almost every culture I can think of barring modern North America, being a user of what that culture would consider "magic" was being a gender in and of itself). I'm referring to the words "male" and "female." These describe biological functions rather than cultural roles.

Gwaednerth

2016-08-24, 01:16 AM

While many cultures do strictly conflate gender with sex, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say "most". There are quite a lot of historical cultures that did not, and plenty that still do not.

It's possible I'm wrong. The sense I get is that there have, historically, been a handful, but on the level of societal norms (i.e. not counting societies with nonbinary or trans people that don't recognise those as legitimate identities) it's only recently becoming anything even resembling common. If I'm wrong that's awesome though.

Edit: Pursuant to the more detailed post that went up while I was writing this, apparently i am wrong.

Clockwork333

2016-08-24, 01:34 AM

Almost no culture in the world treats the junk in your trunk as social position - "Male" or "female" doesn't describe anything except a physical property utilized in reproduction and is, in itself, inaccurate (http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943). It reduces culture to equating reproductive role with social role, and essentially reduces them as brood horses.

Basically, "male orcs are like so" and "female elves are like this" undermines the purpose of describing a culture entirely and turns the beliefs of a given set of otherwise intelligent beings into biological facts, something that real biologists have to constantly explain to people isn't true when it comes to humans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_evolutionary_psychology).

This is really cool, thank you.

Carl

2016-08-24, 07:26 AM

Almost no culture in the world treats the junk in your trunk as social position - "Male" or "female" doesn't describe anything except a physical property utilized in reproduction and is, in itself, inaccurate. It reduces culture to equating reproductive role with social role, and essentially reduces them as brood horses.

This is a crock of *beeep* and you know it. Women were routinely orchestrated from tons of societal positions regardless of the pronouns used.

To clarify for everyone else his longer explanation still sounded like a bunch of nonsense to me so i went and used online dictionary's and they cleared things up. What he's referring to is the way many cultures will have title's, (in the vein of Mr and Mrs), that go before a name that are not gender specific, (off the top of my head the English Language example would be that the term "Your Majesty" is a correct form of address for a monarch of either sex).

The first problem is many of these pronouns, (which are much more common in non-english languages), were and still somtimes are De Facto or De Jure male or female specific and this state of affairs was understood and accepted by all, (many monarchies legally barred women for example, making any pronouns for the monarch De Facto male specific).

The Second is that this is more of a language construct difference than it is an actual cultural difference. You're conflating a difference in the way a language functions with a difference in the way the culture functions as a result. Sometimes this is true somtimes it isn't.

Deepbluediver

2016-08-24, 09:45 AM

In the history of gender and sex, the United States is weird - conflation of gender and sex is a bizarre, modern outlier. This is one of the first things you learn in any anthropology course battery. Most cultures have at least three or more genders, even extremely conservative cultures like what you get in Japan or in assorted Pacific islands.

I'm not referring to the words "man" or "woman." These describe cultural roles and are, in and of themselves, also extremely modern constructs (the Lakota have at least four genders, as one example, Samoans have three, Hawaiians have at least three, several African cultures I can think of have six, and there are a lot of cultures in which I would hesitate to use the word "gender" to even describe their cultural positions - in almost every culture I can think of barring modern North America, being a user of what that culture would consider "magic" was being a gender in and of itself). I'm referring to the words "male" and "female." These describe biological functions rather than cultural roles.
Even if all this were true (which I'm not convinced of yet), we are creating FANTASY races that can conform to whatever stereotypes we want.
When I design a world, some of the races usually end up very sexist either because of biology, history, and/or cultural, and some just don't give a damn. It's a little bit of everything.

Yes, not all ancient societies where as divided along the male/female gender-lines as Victorian-era England, but neither did the male/female/other genders lack any influence at all.

BladeofObliviom

2016-08-24, 11:29 AM

I'm...not sure either of you actually understood the point of what raygun goth said.

This is a crock of *beeep* and you know it. Women were routinely orchestrated from tons of societal positions regardless of the pronouns used.

To clarify for everyone else his longer explanation still sounded like a bunch of nonsense to me so i went and used online dictionary's and they cleared things up. What he's referring to is the way many cultures will have title's, (in the vein of Mr and Mrs), that go before a name that are not gender specific, (off the top of my head the English Language example would be that the term "Your Majesty" is a correct form of address for a monarch of either sex).

The first problem is many of these pronouns, (which are much more common in non-english languages), were and still somtimes are De Facto or De Jure male or female specific and this state of affairs was understood and accepted by all, (many monarchies legally barred women for example, making any pronouns for the monarch De Facto male specific).

The Second is that this is more of a language construct difference than it is an actual cultural difference. You're conflating a difference in the way a language functions with a difference in the way the culture functions as a result. Sometimes this is true somtimes it isn't.

The...'clarification for everyone else' here may well be an honest misinterpretation, but that doesn't make it not a strawman. You're putting words in someone else's mouth and then arguing against that. It's not about pronouns or titles; roles are associated with genders, which are (more or less loosely, depending on culture) associated with sex. You don't check people's genitals before interacting with them to identify their social roles, do you? One would hope you don't pull a stranger's pants off to observe their crotch architecture before deciding whether to use Mr or Mrs. All of the things you're likely to be looking at are markers of gender, not sex (though, as mentioned, certain genders are closely associated with specific sexes in modern cultures).

Admittedly this probably seems like a pointless technicality if you live in a culture with strict binary gender, especially if that culture tends to disregard trans folks, but the concept is vital to understanding any culture where either of those things are not true.

And...no to the second thing. That's nonsense. Different languages may have different ways of distinguishing sex and gender (if they do at all), but the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis just doesn't work like that.

Even if all this were true (which I'm not convinced of yet), we are creating FANTASY races that can conform to whatever stereotypes we want.
When I design a world, some of the races usually end up very sexist either because of biology, history, and/or cultural, and some just don't give a damn. It's a little bit of everything.

Yes, not all ancient societies where as divided along the male/female gender-lines as Victorian-era England, but neither did the male/female/other genders lack any influence at all.

See the explanation above with regard to sex being associated with gender, and gender being associated with social roles. Sex has an influence on gendered social roles, but it's indirect and operates through the middleman of assigned gender.

EDIT: That said, while this topic is extremely interesting, a topic like "Gender and Social Roles in Worldbuilding" is probably big enough and separate enough from "Spins on Fantasy Races" to warrant its own thread. Especially since we're mostly talking about humans here.

HalfTangible

2016-08-24, 12:51 PM

Vampires and werewolves hang out in the cities and in the frontier, respectively. This is because the two have been at war with each other since the beginning of both races; I haven't decided why yet, but since there's a war god of blood and wolves in the setting I'm leaning towards 'because daddy wanted them to'. Werewolves are stronger than vampires and better in combat, but vampires can hypnotize humans into doing their bidding. As such, the vampires gather as many humans around them as possible to both ensure a steady food supply and keep an eye out for werewolves.

The wolves stick to the frontier because they can go wolf at any time from extreme distress or anger, and werewolves hate the crowds that cities produce. As such, a werewolf will stay in small villages and pick off small numbers of humans one at a time, and going after vampires when they try to travel. If they try to get at the vampires in the cities, the vampires will know about them quickly and have plenty of time to mount a counter-attack or escape.

This dichotomy has resulted in the impression/stereotype of vampires retaining an air of dark gothic sophistication and cruel nobility, while werewolves are mangy, scraggly madmen. This impression is deliberately maintained by the vampires to make it seem like they'd be the more reasonable party in any negotiation.

...

This is more of a 'explaining the cliche' than 'changing it', but I still like it as an explanation.

Carl

2016-08-24, 05:39 PM

@BladeofObliviom: Care to tell me what he is trying to say then because to me his chain of argument looks like this:

1. I don't design my races around males and females having specific roles within society because this wasn't actually true historically.

2. Posts a bunch of stuff about pronouns in foreign languages as proof of this.

His whole argument to me is a massive logical fallacy. Just because non-sex-specific gender pronouns exist in a language does not means that those gender pronouns cannot be limited in practical usage by the society to specific sex's. Just because you have a non-gender-specific-pronoun in your language does not mean someone's sex does not determine their social position.

I'm not saying the facts he's posting regarding the existence of such gender pronouns are wrong. I'm saying the way he';s applying them and trying to use them to back an argument is a load of nonsense.

Belac93

2016-08-24, 06:02 PM

Tzi

2016-08-25, 06:34 PM

HalfTangible

2016-08-25, 08:33 PM

I avoid them, I prefer worlds akin to Song of Ice and Fire, or Conan the Barbarian. Worlds with just lots of different sorts of humans. The main problem I have is that I just cannot handle mono-cultural races and my instinct is to create tribes and languages, but then that just adds clutter to my worlds. Now I need space for everything in any splat book.

Basically other races are just visual appeals and typically IMHO just add too much clutter to worlds, too much annoying aspects, I would rather avoid this at all costs.

So I stick to worlds of humans.For monoculture races, I find it's easier to either make them near-extinct, or to have them be a part of the culture that surrounds them in some way. The Aima are creatures in a game I'm playing that can only see blood (including through walls, inside bodies, etc) and can sense it around them. But their current philosophies on how best to use that gift are built on the Roman/Amazon hybrid they currently live in - they once were little more than pets for the humans of their region. Then a Bloodlord rose up and tried to take over the country, and... this part's not important.

If you eschew those and feel a fantasy race's culture is too monolithic, try introducing them somewhere else in the setting, with a reinterpretation of their concept. Or start a civil war between competing ideologies, that's always fun. There's also the fact that the characters are going to respond to their cultures in different ways than others. An elf doesn't have to be aloof and uncaring towards humans - perhaps they're a wild firebrand who has a fetish for round ears (or something). How does that affect their relationship to their fellow elves, to humans?

What's important to keep in mind is that your readers/players are going to experience these races on an individual level. I've seen America described as "a freedom-loving conservative people who hold their founders in high esteem" but no one would ever claim that there aren't americans who are authoritarian, liberal, or criticize the founders.

By the same token: one could say "dwarves are stout, loyal folk who love beer and treasure." But no one within the setting would claim there are no cowardly, treacherous, sober or frugal dwarves. Right?

Tzi

2016-08-25, 09:13 PM

For monoculture races, I find it's easier to either make them near-extinct, or to have them be a part of the culture that surrounds them in some way. The Aima are creatures in a game I'm playing that can only see blood (including through walls, inside bodies, etc) and can sense it around them. But their current philosophies on how best to use that gift are built on the Roman/Amazon hybrid they currently live in - they once were little more than pets for the humans of their region. Then a Bloodlord rose up and tried to take over the country, and... this part's not important.

If you eschew those and feel a fantasy race's culture is too monolithic, try introducing them somewhere else in the setting, with a reinterpretation of their concept. Or start a civil war between competing ideologies, that's always fun. There's also the fact that the characters are going to respond to their cultures in different ways than others. An elf doesn't have to be aloof and uncaring towards humans - perhaps they're a wild firebrand who has a fetish for round ears (or something). How does that affect their relationship to their fellow elves, to humans?

What's important to keep in mind is that your readers/players are going to experience these races on an individual level. I've seen America described as "a freedom-loving conservative people who hold their founders in high esteem" but no one would ever claim that there aren't americans who are authoritarian, liberal, or criticize the founders.

By the same token: one could say "dwarves are stout, loyal folk who love beer and treasure." But no one within the setting would claim there are no cowardly, treacherous, sober or frugal dwarves. Right?

I think for me its more of an issue of why have the aloof forest people have pointy ears and live for centuries when I can just have another human tribe do that? In this I tend to be the Anti-Race DM and homebrewer. I keep it to Human, Assimar, Tiefling, Dhampir, and the various part Genasi or whatever. Though with the caveat that those Demi-Humans rarely know of their heritage and it isn't visually obvious. Tieflings do not have big horns, nor Assimar's some sort of radiant aura, Dhampir's might have fangs though.

I just find its easier for me to just invent a human tribe, slap on a language or a dialect of another language and organize things that way.

HalfTangible

2016-08-25, 09:19 PM

I think for me its more of an issue of why have the aloof forest people have pointy ears and live for centuries when I can just have another human tribe do that? In this I tend to be the Anti-Race DM and homebrewer. I keep it to Human, Assimar, Tiefling, Dhampir, and the various part Genasi or whatever. Though with the caveat that those Demi-Humans rarely know of their heritage and it isn't visually obvious. Tieflings do not have big horns, nor Assimar's some sort of radiant aura, Dhampir's might have fangs though.

I just find its easier for me to just invent a human tribe, slap on a language or a dialect of another language and organize things that way.

Different races exist in fantasy settings because it implies a different biology and lifestyle, which lends itself to things like 'pointy eared forest dwellers who live for centuries'. (It also helps differentiate them from one another but that's neither here nor there, and most of my demihumans have absurd abilities like 'see blood and only blood' and 'control the winds' anyway.

Neither way is really wrong, just depends on the feel you're going for.

Tzi

2016-08-25, 09:28 PM

Different races exist in fantasy settings because it implies a different biology and lifestyle, which lends itself to things like 'pointy eared forest dwellers who live for centuries'. (It also helps differentiate them from one another but that's neither here nor there, and most of my demihumans have absurd abilities like 'see blood and only blood' and 'control the winds' anyway.

Neither way is really wrong, just depends on the feel you're going for.

True.

I've personally always been bad at high fantasy sorts of settings and descriptions. I can never really go for that Tolkien feel or even the Faerun style, it just never feels right to me and always comes off as just not relevant to my story telling.

Clockwork333

2016-08-25, 11:54 PM

Bohandas

2016-08-26, 12:10 AM

In the history of gender and sex, the United States is weird - conflation of gender and sex is a bizarre, modern outlier. This is one of the first things you learn in any anthropology course battery. Most cultures have at least three or more genders, even extremely conservative cultures like what you get in Japan or in assorted Pacific islands.

I'm not referring to the words "man" or "woman." These describe cultural roles and are, in and of themselves, also extremely modern constructs (the Lakota have at least four genders, as one example, Samoans have three, Hawaiians have at least three, several African cultures I can think of have six, and there are a lot of cultures in which I would hesitate to use the word "gender" to even describe their cultural positions - in almost every culture I can think of barring modern North America, being a user of what that culture would consider "magic" was being a gender in and of itself). I'm referring to the words "male" and "female." These describe biological functions rather than cultural roles.
How exactly do you define the word "gender". Because your use of it here seems entirely divorced from the common definition of the term, even as used by the progressive left. I suspect that you're either using an obscure technical definition of the term that nobody else here is, and/or that you've been reading books originally written in some other language and in which some untranslatable term has been rendered in English as "gender" due to the translator being unable to find a more exact translation.

EDIT:
Tying the gender discussion back into fantasy races and cultures, I see the Warforged followers of the Lord of Blades as being and/or striving to be without gender entirely, viewing it as an offshoot of biological sex and thus not only inapplicable but actively anathematic to their worldview (including the Lord of Blades actually being referred to as the "Leige of Blades" within the movement's own literature, and "Lord of Blades" being viewed as a bastardized and offensive mistranslation)

St.Just

2016-08-26, 12:52 AM

In my current setting all the mortal races are variously distant relatives of the goblins. Goblins are the result of the primordial sludge left over from the creation of the universe (which was carved Ymir style from the not-quite-dead bodies of the primordial Demons of Element, Life and Thought). Specifically, most other races are the result of a union, consumption or patronage between goblinoids are the spirits, fey and lesser gods of the world.

Goblins are more or less darkspawn from Dragon Age-barely more than animalistic in intellect, spawning in hordes beneath the earth, break the world down around them and reproducing exponentially if left unchecked. They have bodies and minds-life, form and thought all being carved from the primordial demons-but are literally soulless-souls being creations or fragments of the elder Gods. Lacking any real motive force, they're easily cowed and led by anything with a demonic or spiritual presence and a bit of power. This is helpful for the demonic aspects that tend to be freed when there are enough of them around wrecking the place. Most civilized races don't consider them so much a species as an infestation.

Bugbears are not anything very special, though them being around is usually a bad sign. Bugbears are goblins spawn occasionally near areas rich in life-plant or animals. Their birth draws in a bit of the essence of the Demon of Life, giving them superior size and strength, and sickening the environment around them from the lack. They've got no culture to speak of, and can generally be considered "Bigger, less sneaky goblins." That said, dramatic mutations are not at all uncommon among them-some eventually become full on demons of Life or flesh.

Hobgoblins are the highest form of goblinoid, though it's unclear how exactly they spawn. Formed with larger fragments of the Demon of Thought within them, they're capable of long term planning, strategy, and advanced crafts and construction. They're actually kind of unique, cosmologically. Being soulless and possessing large fragments of Thought, they're extremely susceptible to infection by any of the dream plagues, hive minds, or immanent possessions that are common among demons of Thought. Unlike actual demons or aspects though, they're keenly aware and deeply protective of their individuality. Basically every other race is the result of one group of Hobgoblins or another ensouling themselves to grant their identity permanence.

Elves are the most common and varied race because they're created by the simplest-if not exactly easiest-method. Competent Hobgoblin shamans or sorcerers will eventually figure out the trick to devouring a defeated spirit or small god, assuming a portion of their aspect and their spiritual significance. This is why there's a different elf subtype for practically every biome, and why their appearance varies drastically (Wood Elves skin has the texture of oak bark, Wild Elves are basically photosynethic, Drow are Drow, etc).

Most elven species actually only live a natural century or so, the only ones who can actually last 800-1000 years are the High elves. Savannah and plains dwellers, they had the good luck to have developed a basic agricultural civilization that caught the eye of the Draconic Gods when they descended from Heaven to order the world. Needing administrators and assistants who weren't dying every time they looked away, the dragons more or less uplifted them, teaching them ironworking and the alphabet while granting anyone who knelt a lifespan that lasted an age. Of course, it hasn't actually been a full high elven generation since then, but even if that wasn't wholly true they also got to be the core of the continent's most powerful empire. They very proudly consider themselves half-divine, though most are unclear on what that means.

-I'm completely over the whole "elves are a dying race who time was millenia ago" and the theme of the world being humanity's manifest destiny that seems to underlie a lot of high fantasy. So elves are the most common 'civilized' race (even if most of them are small tribes of hunter-gatherers) and a core part of the dominant imperial power.

Dragonborn as a species came into existence with the same Empire's founding. Long story short, in need of an army even before they attacked, a dying wyrm broke his soul into ten thousand pieces and forced them into every member of a goblin horde. Their culture is militant and dedicated to the virtues of service and loyalty-it was designed to be after all. They've inherited a few draconic foibles as a species too though-lust for glory and a need for respect and honor are pretty endemic among them.

Humans are the most numerous example of the same process which created lizardfolk and merpeople. Basically, they're all originally the result of a powerful lesser god offering hobgoblins spiritual protection in exchange for their physical service protecting their lands or portfolios. In humanities case, they were born in service to Ghorska Roga, one of the most powerful lesser gods around. The human population's pretty regionally concentrated, even if it's dense.

Because no spirit was actually sacrificed to create their souls, human's are spiritually fairly weak. This is why anything and everything can hybridize with them. Humans were the first to discover how to work bronze, and their witch-kings (who became the Yuan-ti) both discovered and popularized necromancy. In the campaign's present, they're a large, restive and recently conquered minority in the empire, populating most of the eastern border.

I know that Thri-kreen and dwarves exist in the setting, but I haven't figured out quite what to do with them yet.

Carl

2016-08-26, 06:59 AM

@Bohandas: Spoilered to avoid annoying anyone.

How exactly do you define the word "gender". Because your use of it here seems entirely divorced from the common definition of the term, even as used by the progressive left. I suspect that you're either using an obscure technical definition of the term that nobody else here is, and/or that you've been reading books originally written in some other language and in which some untranslatable term has been rendered in English as "gender" due to the translator being unable to find a more exact translation.

See Oxford (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiK1-PCg9_OAhXCL8AKHSfsBbkQFggrMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oxforddictionaries.com%2Fdefi nition%2Fenglish%2Fgender&usg=AFQjCNFUJBh-ErkY5w2xAiImnLv1KAUP2Q&sig2=qNDunJuNqOMI8mkxPZEiUg&bvm=bv.130731782,d.d24) for the definitions, thats why i was going on about pronouns, thats the only other real definition he could be using and still be accurate english, (now if he's not a native english speaker could be a bad word choice but i'm not going to assume there as i haven't seen any other evidence of such.

@Everyone Else. Keep the stuff coming around all this, just because a side discussion is happening is no reason for you lot to stop, i may be ready to post my fay race soon, (thanks to someone in here for the nucleus of the idea), depends if/when i can nail down enough different types of fay and fit them in.

Jendekit

2016-08-26, 04:51 PM

I avoid them, I prefer worlds akin to Song of Ice and Fire, or Conan the Barbarian. Worlds with just lots of different sorts of humans. The main problem I have is that I just cannot handle mono-cultural races and my instinct is to create tribes and languages, but then that just adds clutter to my worlds. Now I need space for everything in any splat book.

Basically other races are just visual appeals and typically IMHO just add too much clutter to worlds, too much annoying aspects, I would rather avoid this at all costs.

So I stick to worlds of humans.

While I understand this viewpoint, and to a point agree, I've got a different response. Using the 5e subraces for an example, I see a great deal of the differences between High Elves and Wood Elves as being cultural. For my own settings (including the one on the blog in my sig*) there are different cultures for the nonhuman races.

For example, in the continent of Atnor (more specifically in the region called the Green Coast), dwarves are much like the stereotypical dwarves. They're good at metalworking, love beer, and all of that. Across the ocean on the continent of Dartor, the dwarves are similar but incredibly distinct. Their language, which serves as Common for the northern part of Dartor, is part of a completely different language family from the Green Coast dwarven language.

The orcs in the setting especially have wildly different cultures on the two continents, in the GC they are nomadic herders, while in Dartor they were the ones to invent guns. In addition, the Dartor orcs are extremely boisterous with a tendency for enthusiasm to the point of recklessness while the GC orcs are stoic and restrained (like the Qunari from Dragon Age).

In general, I prefer to find ways of changing the details of races while keeping the spirit. The orcs for example, are still a savage people. One of the GC clans has a ritual where the clan heir cuts out an eye for wisdom like Odin in norse myth, and all clans have a law where anyone that attacks the clan and is captured is a slave of the clan. The Dartor orcs have religious rituals of bloodletting, scarification, and even humanoid sacrifice (which must be voluntary or the ritual fails). The last one is for keeping the eldritch/undead horror beasts of the setting in the Underdark.

Deepbluediver

2016-08-26, 06:59 PM

I avoid them, I prefer worlds akin to Song of Ice and Fire, or Conan the Barbarian. Worlds with just lots of different sorts of humans. The main problem I have is that I just cannot handle mono-cultural races and my instinct is to create tribes and languages, but then that just adds clutter to my worlds. Now I need space for everything in any splat book.

Basically other races are just visual appeals and typically IMHO just add too much clutter to worlds, too much annoying aspects, I would rather avoid this at all costs.

So I stick to worlds of humans.
I don't think a world has to feel "cluttered" to have multiple different non-mono-culture races. The fact that they exist somewhere out there is good enough for me; not every single race has to show up to multi-cultural day at the local elementary school dungeon crawl, in every single story.

The way I do it is that while there is a stereotype and broad generalization for races and subraces, that breaks down as you get into smaller and smaller social groups. In other words, a large city of a single race is likely to be based on that race's culture and most of the NPCs you might will act like you expect them to act. But as you encounter fewer of them at a time they will often exhibit more and more extreme variations on that central theme, to the point where one individual can be of any alignment or personality at all.
In fact, since one of the most common reasons for taking up the insanely dangerous life of an adventurer is that you don't get along with anyone back home, random individuals that the party meets while out and about have at least a better-then-even chance of NOT conforming to their races traditional norms.

With regards to clutter, look at how many different subcultures there are in a single large country in our world, like the US, China, or India. That fact you encounter something slightly different in practically every place you travel feels like a very important part of world-building to me. Having different races with different histories and origin stories adds a lot of potential IMO for different kinds of plot-hooks.
Just as an example, you COULD have a group of seafaring humans in your setting, but a race that's half-aquatic fills the same niche while opening up new challenges and possibilities.

Tzi

2016-08-26, 07:20 PM

I don't think a world has to feel "cluttered" to have multiple different non-mono-culture races. The fact that they exist somewhere out there is good enough for me; not every single race has to show up to multi-cultural day at the local elementary school dungeon crawl, in every single story.

The way I do it is that while there is a stereotype and broad generalization for races and subraces, that breaks down as you get into smaller and smaller social groups. In other words, a large city of a single race is likely to be based on that race's culture and most of the NPCs you might will act like you expect them to act. But as you encounter fewer of them at a time they will often exhibit more and more extreme variations on that central theme, to the point where one individual can be of any alignment or personality at all.
In fact, since one of the most common reasons for taking up the insanely dangerous life of an adventurer is that you don't get along with anyone back home, random individuals that the party meets while out and about have at least a better-then-even chance of NOT conforming to their races traditional norms.

With regards to clutter, look at how many different subcultures there are in a single large country in our world, like the US, China, or India. That fact you encounter something slightly different in practically every place you travel feels like a very important part of world-building to me. Having different races with different histories and origin stories adds a lot of potential IMO for different kinds of plot-hooks.
Just as an example, you COULD have a group of seafaring humans in your setting, but a race that's half-aquatic fills the same niche while opening up new challenges and possibilities.

I get that bit, but I find, why have a pointy eared person by X culture when I can just have another type human. So in my main setting there are lots of tribes of humans.

The clutter bit is more about have to not only have lots of cultures which I like but then explain the origin of effectively separate species, sometimes very exotic species. My mentality is to see a world with "Sun Elves that are like Gaulish Celts, Minotaur Greeko-Minoans, Dwarven Germanic Warriors ect" Is to just say, Why not Human Gaulish Celts, Human Greeko-Minoans and Human Germanic Warriors? It saves me the trouble of having to explain the presence of lots of different species which is what I mean by clutter.

I get why settings have lots of races, I just kinda get stuck on the "Why," question and I find that if I give the players an inch on that front I'll have to add everything to my world.

Max_Killjoy

2016-08-26, 07:55 PM

If your concern is species clutter because players will ask for more, don't give them the opportunity to ask. Put them what you want in, and say "here are your choices".

The setting I'm working on right now (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?497634-How-to-4th-century-BCE-setting) will have (without going into too much detail):

Humans

coastal city/farming people
mountain clans
steppes clans
refugees from a ruined civilization
other foreign peoples

Wilder -- tribes that live in the deep forsaken forests and wild places; smallish but very athletic, greenish skin, dark hair, big dark eyes (just iris and pupil visible, no whites), feral pointed ears (not cat ears, not little pointy elf ears)
"beast people" -- big, powerful, covered in fur, strong jaws with predatory teeth, etc; rivalry with the mountain clans
"the faceless" -- tall and gaunt, no eyes, slits nostrils and wide lipless mouths, sense by sonar and vibrations, twisted remnants of a forgotten time

The plan is to encourage the players to play humans, and for the other species to be "the other" the setting.

Deepbluediver

2016-08-26, 10:09 PM

I get that bit, but I find, why have a pointy eared person by X culture when I can just have another type human. So in my main setting there are lots of tribes of humans.

The clutter bit is more about have to not only have lots of cultures which I like but then explain the origin of effectively separate species, sometimes very exotic species. My mentality is to see a world with "Sun Elves that are like Gaulish Celts, Minotaur Greeko-Minoans, Dwarven Germanic Warriors ect" Is to just say, Why not Human Gaulish Celts, Human Greeko-Minoans and Human Germanic Warriors? It saves me the trouble of having to explain the presence of lots of different species which is what I mean by clutter.

I get why settings have lots of races, I just kinda get stuck on the "Why," question and I find that if I give the players an inch on that front I'll have to add everything to my world.
Ok, I respect that as a difference of opinion and preference.

Allow me to add, though, that it's easy to add new races. But you DON'T have to add a 600-page encyclopedia for every race immediately. Plenty of knowledge can be "lost to time" IMO, without detracting to much for the options that the race(s) open up. Just as an example, elves in my setting are extra-dimensional; they come from some other plane of existence. This fact is known to only one person (so far)- me. It's never come up, and it's never likely to be a plot point. The split between the high elves and forest elves is well known to those subraces and not really a concern to anyone else. The split between the drow and the other elves is much murkier. The forest elves admit they don't know, the high elves won't talk about it, and the drow have half a dozen contradictory origin stories. The once or twice a player has really pressed one of these points I've basically boiled it down to "the knowledge you seek doesn't exist in this world". Some people haven't been exactly thrilled with that answer, but AFAIK no one has ever left a game over it.
Not every race has such a complicated history, but if or when I want to add one, then the option is available to me.

It's frees me to do what I want (and I like telling stories) without needing to actually define every single moment of history in the entirety of the planet. Kind of like how in the real world we know some but not all of everything about the past. That's good enough for me and if it's not good enough for anyone I'm gaming with, they are free to find another group.

Grey Watcher

2016-08-27, 07:53 AM

Max_Killjoy

2016-08-27, 09:04 PM

Tzi

2016-08-27, 09:26 PM

That's a very good point. Different local cultures, urban vs rural vs wilds, etc -- those are going to have as much effect on the people who live their as their species is, unless one is really pushing biological essentialism.

I think for me it goes against the logics of how I do cultures. I start mainly by defining their language since I don't do things like Common, or say Elven ect. I find it just a bit odd that say the world would be full of languages with no theoretical founding population and spoken by people who are culturally similar but are lit. genetically different species basically.

Idk, I follow a peculiar logic when I world build and it may not be for everyone.

Mechalich

2016-08-27, 10:29 PM

On the subject of monocultural races, my preferred solution is to have nations and cultures break along lines other than race. So Elves who live in Alpha City are going to have much more in common with Humans from Alpha City than they will Elves from Zetaton. A settle made up exclusively (or nigh-exclusively) of a single race should be an anomaly, both in the fact of its existence and (as a result of that) its culture. Plus, in my own personal world-building efforts, I tend to have That One Country be Humans. Because why not?

I've tended to find multi-species cultures in fantasy worlds, and especially in D&D, to be unconvincing and to involve a lot of handwaving that ignores critical questions of how such polities would actually develop and behave. Take Silverymoon as an example. This is a kingdom ruled by a non-human immortal queen who has effectively god-like powers, but it's described as a more or less ordinary (albeit highly progressive) northern European fantasy state. It's just weak sauce.

If being an elf is actually a meaningful thing, then a human living in an elven city should find life to be pretty darn miserable - even if the elves are welcoming, nice, and not prejudiced at all. The experience would be considerably more foreign than going and living with the most foreign human culture you could imagine living with. Moving to say, rural Nepal, should be nothing compared to moving in with the elves.

Very few D&D products have ever actually gone and made their non-humans suitably non-human (the big exception is the Thri-Kreen, who are pretty fully realized in all their glorious weirdness). This is partly Tolkien baggage and has to do with the way he wrote elves and dwarves and hobbits more as mythical versions of humans than their own creatures, but its also just playing to the comfort zone of the players and the common Rubber-Forehead Aliens (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RubberForeheadAliens) trope. And your average D&D 'race' would kill to be as well-developed as the Klingons.

Believable mixed cultures are certainly possible, but it's a lot of work and in a given story represents a lot of words. The same thing is generally true for exotic species in general. Doing them well takes a lot of effort, and yet the impulse is to flood worlds and universes with more than you can ever possibly get a handle on. I've done this myself in the past and looking back I'm largely unhappy with it.

Max_Killjoy

2016-08-27, 11:03 PM

I've tended to find multi-species cultures in fantasy worlds, and especially in D&D, to be unconvincing and to involve a lot of handwaving that ignores critical questions of how such polities would actually develop and behave. Take Silverymoon as an example. This is a kingdom ruled by a non-human immortal queen who has effectively god-like powers, but it's described as a more or less ordinary (albeit highly progressive) northern European fantasy state. It's just weak sauce.

If being an elf is actually a meaningful thing, then a human living in an elven city should find life to be pretty darn miserable - even if the elves are welcoming, nice, and not prejudiced at all. The experience would be considerably more foreign than going and living with the most foreign human culture you could imagine living with. Moving to say, rural Nepal, should be nothing compared to moving in with the elves.

Very few D&D products have ever actually gone and made their non-humans suitably non-human (the big exception is the Thri-Kreen, who are pretty fully realized in all their glorious weirdness). This is partly Tolkien baggage and has to do with the way he wrote elves and dwarves and hobbits more as mythical versions of humans than their own creatures, but its also just playing to the comfort zone of the players and the common Rubber-Forehead Aliens (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RubberForeheadAliens) trope. And your average D&D 'race' would kill to be as well-developed as the Klingons.

Fantasy-genre non-human species aren't usually intended to be an exploration of scientifically-rigorous alien cultures from unearthly faraway worlds.

Even if one's fantasy-setting has species that actually evolved, they evolved on exactly the same world as that world's humans, so there's some room for parallel and convergent evolution as a handwave -- it's not as if dwarves evolved on a high-gravity "water world" and are now somehow present on the earth-like world the humans are on, right? (Of course, someone will have written that novel at some point, just to prove me wrong now.)

And many fantasy settings are not worlds where evolution is the primary factor -- when the gods literally created the all the species/races around, there's no reason to assume they wouldn't follow a common model for whatever reason.

If elves are upright and bipedal and communicate through speech and have the same senses that humans have... their cultures might not be all THAT alien to a human. There are human cultures today that some of us find alien, incomprehensible, and maybe even repugnant, so there's a lot of span for some legendary/mythical "neighbors" from our past between "just like us" and "what?" that still falls in the "enough like us to comprehend" space.

Grey Watcher

2016-08-27, 11:46 PM

I've tended to find multi-species cultures in fantasy worlds, and especially in D&D, to be unconvincing and to involve a lot of handwaving that ignores critical questions of how such polities would actually develop and behave. Take Silverymoon as an example. This is a kingdom ruled by a non-human immortal queen who has effectively god-like powers, but it's described as a more or less ordinary (albeit highly progressive) northern European fantasy state. It's just weak sauce.

If being an elf is actually a meaningful thing, then a human living in an elven city should find life to be pretty darn miserable - even if the elves are welcoming, nice, and not prejudiced at all. The experience would be considerably more foreign than going and living with the most foreign human culture you could imagine living with. Moving to say, rural Nepal, should be nothing compared to moving in with the elves.

Very few D&D products have ever actually gone and made their non-humans suitably non-human (the big exception is the Thri-Kreen, who are pretty fully realized in all their glorious weirdness). This is partly Tolkien baggage and has to do with the way he wrote elves and dwarves and hobbits more as mythical versions of humans than their own creatures, but its also just playing to the comfort zone of the players and the common Rubber-Forehead Aliens (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RubberForeheadAliens) trope. And your average D&D 'race' would kill to be as well-developed as the Klingons.

Believable mixed cultures are certainly possible, but it's a lot of work and in a given story represents a lot of words. The same thing is generally true for exotic species in general. Doing them well takes a lot of effort, and yet the impulse is to flood worlds and universes with more than you can ever possibly get a handle on. I've done this myself in the past and looking back I'm largely unhappy with it.

Well. my point isn't that the two guys from Alpha City are going to have especially similar experience, just that they're going to find it easier to relate to each other than to their counterparts in Zetaton. If I move from modern day New York to that poor rural village in Nepal, I'm going to feel much more out of place than if, say, I move to, I dunno, a poor rural town in upstate New York. language, work ethic, expectations, ideals about what's fair and unfair, notions of what constitutes "good art". The Alpha City Elf and the Alpha City human are going to have much more similar ideas along these lines, even if their culture isn't some ideal of intermixing and equality, then the Alpha City Elf and the Zetaton Elf.

I dunno, I guess it's just that, even if, say, Elves do live off in their own enclave because living with races that grow old and die before you've reached your culture's equivalent of grad school is really awkward, that enclave is still part of the larger culture of the city/region/country. And it'd be weird to wander off to the other side of the continent, find an Elven enclave, and have that second Enclave look just like the first.

Am I making any sense? :smallconfused:

Gwaednerth

2016-08-28, 12:09 AM

Well. my point isn't that the two guys from Alpha City are going to have especially similar experience, just that they're going to find it easier to relate to each other than to their counterparts in Zetaton. If I move from modern day New York to that poor rural village in Nepal, I'm going to feel much more out of place than if, say, I move to, I dunno, a poor rural town in upstate New York. language, work ethic, expectations, ideals about what's fair and unfair, notions of what constitutes "good art". The Alpha City Elf and the Alpha City human are going to have much more similar ideas along these lines, even if their culture isn't some ideal of intermixing and equality, then the Alpha City Elf and the Zetaton Elf.

I dunno, I guess it's just that, even if, say, Elves do live off in their own enclave because living with races that grow old and die before you've reached your culture's equivalent of grad school is really awkward, that enclave is still part of the larger culture of the city/region/country. And it'd be weird to wander off to the other side of the continent, find an Elven enclave, and have that second Enclave look just like the first.

Am I making any sense? :smallconfused:

I'd have to disagree somewhat. Let's assume a society in which the racial minorities of a city are generally poor and excluded from the power structures. They live in ghettos (either in the older sense of literally being walled off, or in the modern sense of just rundown neighbourhoods with a high population of a certain racial minority) they can't get jobs, many of them are pushed into criminality, the whole nine yards. The human in Elftopia is going to have a vastly different view of the elf.
Now, the question becomes how does the human in Elftopia relate to the humans in Humanopolis. What would tend to happen is that a sort of pidgin culture would arise. Humans in Elftopia will likely adapt human cultural norms to an Elvish society (for instance, eating a certain food still, but replacing a major ingredient or singing in the same style but adapting subject matter that the Elven classes find more palatable) but generally keep their human culture as alive as possible. For instance, most of the Mexican Americans of my acquaintance, however many generations their families have been here, still speak Spanish, because it's culturally important to them. African slaves in America were put under tremendous pressure to abandon their culture for a more European-style one, but as much as they adapted the subject matter of, for example, gospel music, they played it in a distinctly African style, even introducing the banjo to America.
The human in Humanopolis will have similar class barriers as the Elf from Elftopia when it comes to dealing with a human from Elftopia, but the human from Elftopia likely has a distinctly human culture, albeit one that is coloured with a little Elven flavouring. Of course, if it's been long enough, that will change. Most African Americans today have much more in common with white Americans than with Nigerians or Ethiopians because many of them come from families that have been here at least a century under conditions that stressed conformity to white norms. If the humans of Elftopia have been living there for centuries, then I'd agree they're probably more similar to other Elftopians than to humans from other places.

Mechalich

2016-08-28, 12:47 AM

If elves are upright and bipedal and communicate through speech and have the same senses that humans have... their cultures might not be all THAT alien to a human. There are human cultures today that some of us find alien, incomprehensible, and maybe even repugnant, so there's a lot of span for some legendary/mythical "neighbors" from our past between "just like us" and "what?" that still falls in the "enough like us to comprehend" space.

I wasn't implying that fantasy species should be impossible to comprehend or even difficult to comprehend, but that, assuming that they are actually different species and not just humans with a funny gloss, they ought to be at least as foreign as highly foreign human cultures. Portraying dwarves as basically Scottish people who live underground annoys me - especially when the whole 'lives underground' part is barely even given cultural influence at all. Most D&D settings don't even go as far as Terry Prachett did when he noted that dwarves viewed down as positive and up as negative in converse to humans.

Mostly, I just find it frustrating when the various fantasy species don't acknowledge the influence of their varied physiology and psychology on how they actually live. The thing is, this has generally been done much better in D&D with races that were invented for the system or were heavily developed under the system (ie. how Salvatore basically invented a reimagined drow civilization), and they are presented in a way with better verisimilitude than the ones just flatly imported from Tolkien or other sources.

Well. my point isn't that the two guys from Alpha City are going to have especially similar experience, just that they're going to find it easier to relate to each other than to their counterparts in Zetaton. If I move from modern day New York to that poor rural village in Nepal, I'm going to feel much more out of place than if, say, I move to, I dunno, a poor rural town in upstate New York. language, work ethic, expectations, ideals about what's fair and unfair, notions of what constitutes "good art". The Alpha City Elf and the Alpha City human are going to have much more similar ideas along these lines, even if their culture isn't some ideal of intermixing and equality, then the Alpha City Elf and the Zetaton Elf.

I dunno, I guess it's just that, even if, say, Elves do live off in their own enclave because living with races that grow old and die before you've reached your culture's equivalent of grad school is really awkward, that enclave is still part of the larger culture of the city/region/country. And it'd be weird to wander off to the other side of the continent, find an Elven enclave, and have that second Enclave look just like the first.

You can certainly have multi-racial societies in fantasy. In fact I support having them, it's just that most examples of them are poorly realized. A city that has a mixed population of humans and elves shouldn't simply be a human city with a bunch of elves living there or an elven city with a bunch of humans living there (the Forgotten Realms has both) it should represent some sort of legitimate fusion between the two groups and have all sorts of weird cross-racial cultural elements. And that's two species, many D&D cities have dozens. How do those cities function as anything more than rampaging near-anarchy (which is how Sigil, the most convincing D&D city, sorta-kinda stumbles along)? What does a federation of elves, dwarves, and humans actually look like?

Generally my opinion has evolved to the point that, if you're going to have different species, they should actually be different and those differences should have meaning. They shouldn't just be a funny-looking version of an actual human cultural group.

Bohandas

2016-08-28, 01:06 AM

Very few D&D products have ever actually gone and made their non-humans suitably non-human (the big exception is the Thri-Kreen, who are pretty fully realized in all their glorious weirdness). This is partly Tolkien baggage and has to do with the way he wrote elves and dwarves and hobbits more as mythical versions of humans than their own creatures, but its also just playing to the comfort zone of the players and the common Rubber-Forehead Aliens (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RubberForeheadAliens) trope. And your average D&D 'race' would kill to be as well-developed as the Klingons.

Rather oronic given that in old legends elves were very strange creatures that got up to very strange things and had a list of bizarre powers and weaknesses a mile long

EDIT:
They were not, however, very believable as a stable divilization existing for any purpose other than weird for the sake of weird and whose members are actual living organisms who need to eat and sleep and such., and probably also wouldn't be very balanced as characters.

Clockwork333

2016-08-28, 04:23 PM

Rather ironic given that in old legends elves were very strange creatures that got up to very strange things and had a list of bizarre powers and weaknesses a mile long

EDIT:
They were not, however, very believable as a stable civilization existing for any purpose other than weird for the sake of weird and whose members are actual living organisms who need to eat and sleep and such., and probably also wouldn't be very balanced as characters.

Yeah that's part of why I like to find a middleground between how 'human' and how 'monstrous' species are.

Having really alien biology and such is neat but it doesn't always make sense if the creatures came from similar origins or evolved on the same planet or need to have a functioning civilization as -mortals- rather than extradimensional fey.

Tzi

2016-08-28, 08:01 PM

Ur-Than

2016-08-29, 08:39 AM

I hope this thread isn't reserved for D&D races, since I've (for my personal enjoyment mainly) created a setting with various races : the Low Kingdoms. Sadly, to understand my spin on the three main races, at little bit of geographic and historical knowledge may be needed, I've put it in the spoiler.

Also, sorry in advance for the long read.

The main continent is called Alomia.

The Low Kingdoms are the half-barbaric and mostly arid lands claimed by various Human princes and Orc kings. They form an allied confederation, most of the time, except when internal dissension after a failed raid reach a size such that those various small nations need to exorcize this violence in internal skirmishes. They always lack a strong leader able to unify all of them. The name of the Low Kingdoms came from the time of the High Empire from beyond the Shield of Saerendril, the high mountains forming a barrier between the fertile lands and the Border Marches. The Low Kingdoms are many and unstable, but the orcs and humans tend to live well among each others, with Half-Orcs being quite common.

Directly to the North and West of the Low Kingdoms are the seven Border Marches, whose rulers are all descendants from exiled elven families. Their subjects are of all ethnicity, but they are mainly elves and goblins. The Border Marches have been independent for more than two thousand years, but the threats coming both from the Low Kingdoms and the Shattered Empire have prevented the dominion of one above the others, so now for their ruling families, there is no more ambition to push the borders of each Marches. The rivers are more numerous in the Marches than in the Kingdoms and so the Marches, despite being smaller, are more populous.

Finally, west to the Shield lie what was once the High Empire. In fact, in the Low Kingdoms, it is still called as such, or Shol-Batrag, the Ancient Home. But in the Marches, it is named the Shattered Empire for a reason : more than three thousand years ago, a monstrous civil war engulfed the nation of the elves and the Empire has fallen. Wild spells were unleashed, and the land itself has been twisted in some parts. Now Athvealinawel, the Lands of the Chosen, are divided between four main power : the Archdukedom of Valannawel along the Shield of Saerendril, the Republic of Solatan, the Theocracy of Koloth, and the Principality of the Crowned. The whole population of the Shattered Empire has elven origins, but in some places, ancient magic or deliberate experimentations have twisted them in unrecognisable shapes.

Now concerning the races proper

The Humans are quite classical (being mostly western-looking in the Marches, more Middle-Eastern and North-African in the Low Kingdoms).

The Orcs were called Half-Uruks in the times before the coming of the elves, for they were born from the unions of Uruks and Humans. But since all the Uruks have been killed more than nine thousand years ago, the Half-Uruks are now a distinct race. The Orcs are grey-skinned, with some green patches, two head taller than humans, with smaller noses and ears. They are also a lot more muscular.

Therefore, the Half-Orcs mostly look humans, but their skin looks somewhat sickly, and they are just a little more strong and tall than humans. However, they are a lot more agile than the orcs.

The Goblins are ancient experimentations, which were created by mating,through magic, the last Uruk with low-borne elves before the true formation of the High Empire. However, since the results were deemed quite unsatisfactory - the goblins being smaller and lither than elves-, despite their incomparable stamina they were almost all executed. Only a few hundred managed to reach the Shield and then the Marches, where they have grow to represent most of the population. The Goblins have large almond-shaped eyes, long pointed ears and almost no nose. Clever and almost as long lived as the elves, they form the majority of the Marches' merchants and soldiers.

The elves, finally, are quite beautiful, being almost as tall as the Orcs, but a lot more lithe. They can live up to a thousand years, often have alabaster skin (except in the Border Marches, were they are a lot more tanned by the sun) and long limbs.

And speaking of elves, they have a rather eclectic family tree !

Elves = all the elves, or simply the ones living in the Shattered Empire who aren't another kind of elf (the majority of the population).

Dark Elves = a slur used during the era of the High Empire to designate the elven families garrisoning the eastern side of the Shield of Saerendril (because of their tan, less "sophisticated" manner and often less than glamorous past) and has since been extended to all the elves living in the Border Marches, who have now taken the name as a sign of pride, instead of shame.

Crooked Elves = half-elf, half-goblins. They exists only in the Border Marches (and in fact the seventh Marches, Lokgrawel was founded because en exiled elf married a powerful Goblin matriarch and was recognized by the others as a full Marches only when it sided with them against the Low Kingdoms in a ten years long war). They are forbidden to enter the Empire on pain of death. They mostly look like elves, but their skin is more yellowish, their ears longer and their eyes larger, they are a little hunched and they have smaller noses than other elves, but they have more endurance.

Great Elves = the elves who can trace their lineage to Valanna the Conqueror, her follower or the ruling families of the Empire prior to the civil war which shattered it (the new noble families born after this times aren't deemed great elves). All the leaders of the remnants of the Empire are great elves, and it is also the case for the leaders and almost all the nobles families of the Border Marches (technically, even the rulers of Lokgrawel are Great Elves, but their nature of Crooked Elves exclude them). One can be a Dark Elf and a Great Elf (the rulers of the Borders, for instance).

Low Elves = common elves who have committed crimes (or whose ancestors have committed crimes) so great that all their rights, lineage and heritage are sundered; said crimes include among others copulating with a human, murder of a Great Elf, use of necromancy. Most of them are just bandits or members of a doomsday cult, either by choice or because societies doesn't offer them any other option.

Fallen Elves = Elves whose ancestors have been corrupted by wild magic or experimented upon during the civil war. There isn't one breed of them, almost all of them are unique (even if Fallens who live in the same region tend to share the same characteristics).

Half-Elves = The rarest of the elven groups, the Half-Elves are born from the mating of a human and an elf. For a long time such couples and birth were forbidden both in the Shattered Empire and in the Border Marches but the Marchers have changed their policy, because they believe that the Half-Elves could ensure some form of peace with the Low Kingdoms, even if the populations doesn't like the "halflings" very much. Hamlets of Half-Elves however exists in the Shield of Saerendril, with their population reaching at best seven thousand souls. The Half-Elves are deemed dangerous by the elves because they have the same lifespan as them, but their human heritage allow them to use the spells of both races and to combine them in a unique and incredibly powerful variety of powers which can't be used by any others. Even before the foundation of the Empire, such powers were deemed too dangerous, for fear of the Helf-Elves gathering the humans around them to usurp the throne. The Half-Elves are very similar to elves, but they are taller and more muscular, and males also have some facial hair. They require specific spells to be born (just like the Goblins) since elves can't naturally reproduce with Uruks, Orcs and Humans.

Beast Elves = The Goblins. Technically, they are a part of this family and are a link between the elves and the Orcs/Humans. They aren't deemed intelligent or even persons in the Shattered Empire, which is always a source of tensions, since many a famous Marcher captain or even general is a Goblin. By extension, Crooked elves are deemed half-beasts in the Empire.

Xuc Xac

2016-08-30, 04:16 PM

I admit, I did consider other elemental groups, but I find the western one is the most broad and archetypal in my mind. Like, metal and wood are awesome elements, but they don't really abstract very will. But fire... fire is destruction, it's chaos, but it's also warmth and light and energy and change. If you really abstract the concepts of the elements down, you get some really interesting implications. Like, if you think about fire as 'heat', and consider that the movement of molecules is what allows every chemical reaction in the universe to take place, fire becomes the engine that literally drives everything in the universe.

Somthing that's interested me for a while is that not every culture identifies the same set of elements. The "Earth, Air, Water, Fire" thing is western, AFAIK, but eastern real-world cultures described the elements as Water, Wood, Earth, Metal, & Fire.

Honestly, off all the various depictions of the 4/5/7/118 elements in many works of fiction, "Spirit/Aether/whatever-they-call-it" has always been my least favorite. To me it never felt like it fit right, in part because the other elements are tide in to the physical world and this last one just ... isn't.

I appreciate the effort, but it doesn't really matter what it's called, it's what it does that just doesn't seem to mesh well with all the rest. It's like having a pair of sneakers, a set of combat boots, some stilettos, a pair of sandals .... and a tophat. It just doesn't fit the theme.
And I full admit this is my opinion and no one else's.

I realize these are older posts, but I've just caught up on the thread and I want to clarify some things here.

The Western (i.e. Greek) Classical Elements are Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. Aether was added later when alchemists and natural philosophers wondered what celestial bodies like the sun and stars were made of. The other four elements are temporary or "mortal": earth breaks and crumbles, fire burns out, water dries up, etc. But the stars never change. They glow like fire, but they can't be fire because they never change. They have to be something else that is different than the four elements found in the material world. So they made up aether as the fifth element (or quintessence). It came to be associated with spirit or souls because those are the immortal unchanging parts of a person. Aether doesn't fit with the other four precisely because alchemists saw things that didn't fit the other four so they assumed that there was some fifth unchanging element that was completely different than the other four. The four elements are completely inadequate to describe the entire universe. When they realized this, they made up a fifth element that was "none of the above" to describe eternal unchanging things like stars.

Things got really weird later as alchemists began to explore the world more thoroughly and found more and more holes in their theory. They started trying to integrate more things like sulfur and mercury to fill in the gaps until the whole thing eventually fell apart as they zeroed in on the atom. Until then, Aether filled the gap of "things that we can't touch but assume are there like souls or the 'perfect' material that heavenly bodies are made of".

In Asia, there were two main systems of elements. The Hindu/Buddhist set were like the Western elements: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Sky/Void/Heaven. This is the group made famous by the "Book of Five Rings". The other was the Taoist set of elements: Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, and Water. Both systems were occasionally used at the same time in the same place because despite the names used for the elements, they don't actually overlap and describe different things. The Buddhist/Western elements are substances and describe what the world is. The Taoist elements are processes that describe what the world does. The Buddhist/Greek elements are concrete and the Taoist elements are abstract.

Think of it this way. The "Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Aether" elements are nouns. The "Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water" elements are verbs that are just symbolized by physical things because it's hard to draw a picture of an abstraction. If you put a big stone in a catapult and launch it, the Greek system says that it's Earth when you launch it, Earth when it's soaring, Earth when it levels off, Earth when it falls, and Earth when it lands with a thud. In the Taoist system, the stone is Wood when you launch it, Fire when it's soaring, Earth when it levels off, Metal when it's falling, and Water when it lands because those elements describe the actions in a cycle of rising, extending, balancing, contracting, and stopping.

Max_Killjoy

2016-08-30, 05:17 PM

I realize these are older posts, but I've just caught up on the thread and I want to clarify some things here.

The Western (i.e. Greek) Classical Elements are Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. Aether was added later when alchemists and natural philosophers wondered what celestial bodies like the sun and stars were made of. The other four elements are temporary or "mortal": earth breaks and crumbles, fire burns out, water dries up, etc. But the stars never change. They glow like fire, but they can't be fire because they never change. They have to be something else that is different than the four elements found in the material world. So they made up aether as the fifth element (or quintessence). It came to be associated with spirit or souls because those are the immortal unchanging parts of a person. Aether doesn't fit with the other four precisely because alchemists saw things that didn't fit the other four so they assumed that there was some fifth unchanging element that was completely different than the other four. The four elements are completely inadequate to describe the entire universe. When they realized this, they made up a fifth element that was "none of the above" to describe eternal unchanging things like stars.

Things got really weird later as alchemists began to explore the world more thoroughly and found more and more holes in their theory. They started trying to integrate more things like sulfur and mercury to fill in the gaps until the whole thing eventually fell apart as they zeroed in on the atom. Until then, Aether filled the gap of "things that we can't touch but assume are there like souls or the 'perfect' material that heavenly bodies are made of".

In Asia, there were two main systems of elements. The Hindu/Buddhist set were like the Western elements: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Sky/Void/Heaven. This is the group made famous by the "Book of Five Rings". The other was the Taoist set of elements: Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, and Water. Both systems were occasionally used at the same time in the same place because despite the names used for the elements, they don't actually overlap and describe different things. The Buddhist/Western elements are substances and describe what the world is. The Taoist elements are processes that describe what the world does. The Buddhist/Greek elements are concrete and the Taoist elements are abstract.

Think of it this way. The "Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Aether" elements are nouns. The "Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water" elements are verbs that are just symbolized by physical things because it's hard to draw a picture of an abstraction. If you put a big stone in a catapult and launch it, the Greek system says that it's Earth when you launch it, Earth when it's soaring, Earth when it levels off, Earth when it falls, and Earth when it lands with a thud. In the Taoist system, the stone is Wood when you launch it, Fire when it's soaring, Earth when it levels off, Metal when it's falling, and Water when it lands because those elements describe the actions in a cycle of rising, extending, balancing, contracting, and stopping.

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Xing

ThePurple

2016-08-30, 10:40 PM

Personally I'm working on a revamp of the Slaad, to make them more representative of the chaos inherent in the natural world, especially as part of evolution, to an almost contradictory degree (Evolution might be seen as an orderly thing by some, but the way it takes place is certainly chaotic) I'm not a fan of the current incarnation which are defined by their horrific ability to propagate... but are 'neutral' in name only because they're all ruled by the evil death slaad working towards total entropy for no real reason other than it's 'in their nature'.

I've always found the specific growth pattern of slaads to be perturbing. They're supposed to be a race of chaos personified and they're pretty much as orderly as the lawful outsiders where their progression is concerned.

Something to keep in mind about evolution is that it isn't really an ordered process. Evolution happens when *random mutations* occur; evolution happens *because* of chaos and enacts changes in species by having the world act upon those changes. It happens *slowly* because mutations are small and comparatively rare.

To bring this back around to the slaads, I could very easily see their chaotic nature represented in a ridiculously high chance of mutation (e.g. there's guaranteed to be at least 1 mutated gene in every new slaad). Slaads are all about evolution. Keep in mind that evolution isn't directed: you don't just decide to evolve to be smarter; evolution keeps the most adaptive (does not mean "better" or "stronger"; adaptive means that it increases the likelihood of genetic proliferation, which can sometimes mean getting weaker/smaller to reduce resource requirements) and stagnates when the environment doesn't change (e.g. if the environment is stable, stuff doesn't evolve; sharks and crocodiles are basically the same as they've been for millions of years because they're perfectly suited to their environs).

To really push this evolution/adaptation concept home, Slaads need to evolve *fast*, which means that they need really short generations. Thankfully, this works fine with their default interpretation because they reproduce via implantation and the neonate grows up in a matter of hours, ready to start clawing baby slaads into people immediately.

Of course, this rapid reproduction also means that they should have incredibly high consumption needs (gotta eat a lot to grow that fast) which means that, if they aren't constantly consuming stuff, they die (unless they get a mutation that slows their growth rate), so their lives tend to be pretty short and brutal.

This means that the slaadi form (e.g. humanoid claw frog) is a product of adaptation to the environment of their home plane, which is extremely unpredictable (which makes a bit of sense, since they're durable but not specialized). It also means that the various slaadi subtypes are simply short lived adaptations to new environments that crop up within the chaos of their home plane (as soon as that environment changes back to normal, the subsequent generations evolve back to the normal form).

It also means that you can have unique slaads pretty easily, since mutations are like that. Truly ancient unique slaads, like the Slaad Lords, would be evolutionary throwbacks to the conditions at the dawn of time, whose adaptations were inferior from a reproductive perspective: perhaps the traits that make them immortal and powerful also render them sterile, so that they're incapable of passing on those traits or maybe they were extremely long lived and slow reproducing K breeders in an environment that obviously favors the r strategy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory). Other unique slaads, possibly including the Slaad Lords, could be a product of a *very specific* combination of genes (or even epigenetic differences such as being implanted in a god while carrying a very specific gene) such that a single mutation produces causes the embryo to turn out like a normal slaad (which could be interesting if another Slaad Lord with that exact same set of genetics and conditions to produce a copy is born since it's simply *obscenely unlikely* rather than outright impossible; cue Slaadi Civil War).

It also explains why sometimes you see more toadlike slaads, others more humanoid, some that are grotesquely overweight while others are emaciated. Random mutation and environmental influences simply made it happen.

Slaads would basically be evolution on overdrive. Which is kind of cool when you think about it.

Mechalich

2016-08-30, 11:12 PM

Something to keep in mind about evolution is that it isn't really an ordered process. Evolution happens when *random mutations* occur; evolution happens *because* of chaos and enacts changes in species by having the world act upon those changes. It happens *slowly* because mutations are small and comparatively rare.

This is a vast oversimplification that is veering sharply towards falsehood. Random point mutations are a source of the genetic variation that can drive the evolutionary process. They are not the only source, and genetic variation merely influences phenotypic expression with in turn influences fitness (survivorship and production of offspring) depending on the selective forces acting on the population.

Not that any of this matters in a discussion of D&D because D&D is not governed by evolutionary forces at all. In the traditional D&D paradigm where the Slaadi are the chaotic neutral exemplars native to Limbo (though there's a lot of weird background material, some of which is contradictory, governing that statement) they represent a force of chaotic change that is truly random, not evolutionary.

Slaadi are outsiders. If they eat, it is because they have chosen to do so - they don't require physical nutrients of any kind. Their reproduction method has been changed from one edition to the next, and they probably actually have several and many may simply materialize into existence fully formed from the chaos of Limbo just like demons occasionally do in the Abyss.

Xuc Xac

2016-08-30, 11:52 PM

I always thought slaad were a very bad example of chaos incarnate. They have standardized sets of abilities and they're color coded for convenience. They're almost as organized as modrons.

ThePurple

2016-08-30, 11:55 PM

This is a vast oversimplification that is veering sharply towards falsehood. Random point mutations are a source of the genetic variation that can drive the evolutionary process. They are not the only source, and genetic variation merely influences phenotypic expression with in turn influences fitness (survivorship and production of offspring) depending on the selective forces acting on the population.

It's a simplification for a reason. I didn't really feel like writing an entire discourse on evolution (much less get into epigenetics). You'll also note that I did specifically reference the environment acting on the species as a fundamental element. The entire reason that the standard slaad is a standard slaad is because the tendency of the environment they find themselves in selects against deviations from that mold.

As to slaads being outsiders and not requiring any of the normal forms of sustenance, who cares? The point is that it's a *spin* on the race. You're supposed to change stuff.

The entire premise of the idea is changing the ordered nature of slaad progression so that it's a chaotic process that still explains why slaads tend towards specific forms.

Bobbybobby99

2016-08-31, 04:24 PM

Let's see...

Humans are divided into subraces based on the elements; the Aasimars are influenced by positive energy, Tieflings are negative energy, Oreads are earth based, etc. There aren't any 'default' humans. Elves evolved from mollusks (mostly clams), and are thusly amphibious; they get bonuses to charisma, not intelligence. They're universally bald (though wigs are sometimes fashionable), and don't have any ears at all. The dwarves are made of minerals, and common varieties include gargoyles, golems, and warforged. The 'traditional' dwarves, who are made of soil, have beards made of a symbiotic, prehensile plant, while the dvergar are made of glittering jewels. Pegasi are effectively donkeys with batlike wings, and Halflings are a broad group that evolved from amphibians, and whose number includes trolls and hags. Hobbits, descended from olms, are the ones who most superficially resemble humans, given their skin tone, though any closer look reveals them, while Gnomes resemble humanoid poison dart frogs, and have bonuses to every mental stat. The standard sirens and merrows can mate with the Illthids and Aboleths, both of whom are closely related, and Tritons look like four armed Koi fish. Hobgoblins are attractive, and in many ways resemble traditional elves, though they have a wolfish glint the their features; they include hobs (who can teleport short distances), brownies (who can use mass unseen servant), and gremlins (who can use shatter), alongside Powries, with an additional charisma bonus and rainbow colored hair. Kobolds resemble geckos, with appropriate climbing abilities, while Yuan-ti are more accurately legless lizards rather than snakes, and can burrow. Dryads have a constant detect undead effect and can use lesser restoration at will (I can hear the hellfire warlocks already), while the Orcs resemble boars (which isn't that unique) and can sense life energy while having a constantly shifting skin-tone (which is more unique). Most of the undead varieties are standard races, and are fungal in nature; vampires are truffle based, thusly sleeping underground and consuming tree sap, which earned them their name from the dryads, while mummies are sentient clouds of yeast that can weave cloth garments, that they then inhabit. It goes on and on.

Pronounceable

2016-09-06, 05:37 AM

Humans keep asking how dwarves all live underground. They say dwarves can't feed themselves with trade only because [insert long treatise about real world topics]. Which is true. So what do they eat down there, humans keep asking. Shows what humans know. The most obvious answer is the correct one. Dwarves eat nothing. Why'd you even assume they need to eat? Thanks to Moradin's supreme skill at engineering, dwarves are alcohol engines and don't need to bother with all that digestion and excretion stuff (which is hella disgusting). That's why dwarves drink and that's how they're the best brewers of the whole world. They all live underground without any sort of fields or herds or whatever else unlucky races made by unskilled gods are in need of. Dwarves don't even have stomachs and would have to vomit if they ever swallow something solid, seeing how there's no other exit for such things. They're perfectly happy to not have any of those most gross parts other races are damned with and having to vomit up any accidentally swallowed thing is a small price to pay for it.

Draconi Redfir

2016-09-06, 07:08 AM

I don't like "magic" or "made by gods" as reasons for races existing in whatever form they are or possessing whatever abilities they may have. I much prefer to think about how they could potentially evolve naturally with at best only minor magical assistance.

Take my Trolls for example. My Trolls are completely non-magical, their regeneration is explained by them actually being distant descendants of Starfish.

At some point in the far past, Starfish ate algae, this algae began growing more on the land then it did in the water, so the starfish would crawl onto land, eat, then retreat back into the water. The stars who could survive on land longer, ate more, and survived better. Eventually you got a species of starfish that spent all of it's time on land.

This didn't come without a cost however. Birds began preying on the stars, and as the stars couldn't see, hear, or move quickly, they had to develop a new form of defence. Some Stars found they could flex their muscles in rapid spasms, making their bodies flop about wildly to spook off incoming predators. This spasming was eventually used as a primitive faster-travel, slowly growing into the stars using their larger "legs" as actual legs, making them crawl about and travel faster.

A lot of other stuff happens, and we get to modern Trolls. Trolls have cells with an excess energy bank in them, they eat a lot more, but they have a sort of battery in every cell that gets charged by eating, so if they're damaged or an arm is chopped off, that energy can be used to re-grow the missing body part, including the head if needed in a matter of weeks while still surviving. Bones naturally can not grow back, so Trolls don't have bones, they instead have a "skeleton" of incredibly dense muscle tissue, and their teeth in kind are made out of densely packed and reinforced Keratin.

Each Troll has five "Proto brains" in their bodies. One in the head, wich holds a majority of the thoughts and memories, and one in each shoulder and upper thigh. So long as at least one of these brains is intact, the Troll will be able to re-grow any missing body parts it may have, provided the remaining parts have enough stored up energy to do so. As such even a Troll that is only missing an arm but is starving won't grow a new arm, and a starving Troll with no head will soon die. Even a Troll that is fully fed but reduced to a single leg with the leg-brain in tact may die as the leg alone may not have enough energy to rapidly re-grow so many necessary cells. Trolls who have lost their head and are able to re-grow it, may find themselves a slightly different Troll then the one they had once been, as the primary brain in the head had been removed or damaged, forcing new neural pathways and scrambling memories. Cutting a troll in half may give you two brand new Trolls in a week or so, but they would both be the same age, and would not be a viable way of reproduction long-term.

That's the basics of it at least, there are some other bits, but they're mostly cultural and the like. Naturally there are few if any other species related to Trolls in any way, if there are they are most likely spin offs of the Trolls themselves. not going to see any starfish Troll-apes walking around most likely.

Telok

2016-09-10, 01:10 AM

I have something going on in the setting I've been finishing up, off and on, slowly. I promise I'll finish someday.

First, all the half-whatevers are either sterile mules (half elves, half orcs, etc.) or cocaine wizard experiments with 3d4 random insanities. Second, a thousand plus years ago there was a massive proto-tippyverse technomagic empire in the middle of the continent. Now there's a giant hell-desert with living spells, evil carnivore unicorns, nomadic camel-centaurs, and creepy psychic standing stones that move around when nobody is looking. The god/planar setup is custom but in a sad attempt to rationalize it philosophers assume that it looks mostly like the published D&D stuff.

I read lots of history and I married a history major so my medieval countries seriously diverge from the sanitized faux-medieval storybook version with modern western ethics. Plus I have gunpowder and cannons but no handgun/musket sized stuff, it's not real world gunpowder and has a minimum mass requirement to combust. Magic is impeded by lost knowledge and residual instability so there are no open-list casters with higher than 6th level spells.

So, the races. North sea area has tsar era russia without a central authority. Majority orcs, nobility orcs, orcish grizzly bear calvary, and a rare 220 proof vodka. East of that we have viking halflings, good farmers and nasty raiders. Big on honor too. Southeast from there past Roc Island is elf/England where non-elves are foriegners or branded slaves and politics looks like Shakespear's English king plays, lots of treachery. The manditory weekly archery meets explains the bow proficencies. A short ways south of that is fairyland, a pretty big island where you're either fey or victim. West southwest from there is a mixed race but mostly human El Cid era Spain. Next to that is a mixed race almost-Three Musketeers France undergoing a rather drawn out and chaotic civil war. Nearby we have dwarven Germany, lots of powerful but independent but allied but infighting cities. They make the best cannons and have armored war wagons pulled by dire wolves. Gnomish Switzerland, home to the gnomes of Zurich. It's very rich, makes the best gunpowder, and hires lots of mercenaries. Bram Stoker's Transylvannia with a Thrallherd vampire, the only vamp in the world and possibly the only 'mortal' who remembers the old Empire. His thralls are all werewolves. All. South of that we have pure human Borgia papacy Italy, and I managed to wrangle a pesudo-papacy out of the pantheon so I can also have pagan hunting and an Inqusition. There's the "Old Kingdoms" border states near the hell-desert which are almost standard D&D faux-medieval kingdoms, except of course that they're falling apart and overrun by monsters. There's Illiad era Greece west of that mess, with noble centaurs, mythic monsters, demi-god level heros and kings, the Mount Olympus expy, and the gates to the Underworld/Hades. They're also really big on honor and hospitality. South is a humanish Ottoman Empire along the coast with more sphinxes, genies, and stuff the further up the rivers or into the desert you go. And in the far far west is Jotunhiem. See, theres only one race of giants. Ogres, hill, fire, frost, stone, etc. etc. are all just age categories. The older a giant is the bigger, smarter, more magical, and less active he is. So some of the mountains in there really are sleeping giants who could rival the gods in power. Trolls are not giants, they are fey. They are cunning, often smart, and bound by riddles. Beat a troll in a riddle contest and he'll go away. Lose and he gets really strong and really lucky while he's trying to eat you.

So my game can start out in a normalish D&D realm and then move into politics, wars, exploration, epics, high magic, and other stuff. Or they could stick around the Old Kingdoms and try to fix things up.

Falcon X

2016-09-12, 01:12 PM

To be fair, mine is an interesting take on an interesting take.

Ghost Elves: Originally published in Dragon Magazine for 3.5, these were elves that were deep into a losing war with the drow. So, they moved to the Astral Plane, transporting their homes and populations there one piece at a time.
Living on the Astral Plane for 500 years or so, the Ghost Elves became darker and more brooding. They had a strong desire for vengeance. Their skin also started to become slightly translucent. Basically, they are the Blood Elves from WoW.

My Take:
- A god of death got involved (In my game it is Wee Jas. Long story of why she did it). The god sent a proxy to the Ghost Elves on the Astral Plane to teach them necromancy.
Necromancers are one of the primary job functions of a ghost elf. A coming of age practice is when they get strong enough to cast Summon Dread Warrior on a willing dead person in order to gain a fully competent servant. The honor of coming back is usually reserved for other ghost elves, but some necromancers will sneak into the dead house in Sigil, or find a wizard on the Prime Material. They will cast Speak with Dead to see if the person is willing, and then they will bring them back to life in their thrall.
- They watch the material plane closely. They know where their enemies are. It is common for them to shift to the Ethereal Plane to watch civilization change. They will hunt on the ethereal plane and eat of it's ghostly flesh. They will take their children to watch the drow and see for themselves what vile beings they are. When they finally strike back, it will be from a very informed position.

Tzi

2016-09-12, 01:21 PM

I am contemplating another spin on races and opening my setting up to multiple "races," but under heavily modified lore.

..... So, considering ways to have multiple races in a world, I am always torn on the issue between my desire for simplicity and not having to explain origins or have really definite Gods/Goddesses ect AND the aesthetics of various races and in general players LIKE them.

One Idea I've always had is to give the races a sort of primeval origins. The idea is to clean up the races category and make for a much simpler list.

So a plausible origin is that there are three general categories of races, Orcs, Humans and Elves. Each category has a primeval ancestry that links the three together. The primeval Orc, Elf and Human are all short or small creatures. I.E. Goblins are the primeval Orc, Gnomes the Primeval Elf, and either halflings or Dwarves the primeval Human.

There might be a fourth branch, From which the Kobold is the Primeval Dragonborn.

With the Exception of the Kobold, Dwarves/Halflings, Gnomes and Goblins all share a common forebears, or are made from the same thing, thus explaining interbreed ability ect.

Gods/Goddesses can still be vague, as its possible these events were shaped by great beings, Like Titans from WoW, or is the Will of Gods, ect.

The core is, Elven peoples, Human peoples, and Orcish peoples are all similar enough. The smaller or more primeval versions of the races are all more remote and less seen. With possibly only Gnomes/Primeval Elves being frequent enough of a sight in the world to be readily recorded and this is mostly because their taller descendants go to great lengths to protect them.

Deepbluediver

2016-09-23, 10:46 AM

I read lots of history and I married a history major so my medieval countries seriously diverge from the sanitized faux-medieval storybook version with modern western ethics.
I'm kind of curious- could you delve a little more into what you mean by this? I've read that things like Chivalry and Bushido were basically made up (or at least drastically expanded) by later writers trying to romanticize certain aspects of the age, but where do you take your version of D&D with all your other knowledge?

My belief is that one of the goals of D&D is to tell a story, and if something serves that story well then it's alright if it doesn't line up exactly with "what really happened in the real world" because this ISN'T the real world. It's whatever world we want to build. My stock reply for the accusation that something isn't "right" is to point out that medieval Europe didn't have mindflayers either.

And I know this thread is about races, but it's not a huge leap to start asking what kind of setting produces a particular race. When I had the chance to design my own world, I decided that to support all the carnivorous megafauna you find in the Monster Manuals we needed drastically hardier tropic levels, so the whole planet is bursting with a profusion of nutritious plantlife. This, in turn, means that you don't need 92% of the population living on farms and in fact most societies support themselves just fine on a mostly hunter-gatherer existence, freeing up more people to run off and go get themselves BBQ'd by dragons. It's basically an adventurer's paradise.

Telok

2016-10-03, 01:00 PM

I'm kind of curious- could you delve a little more into what you mean by this? I've read that things like Chivalry and Bushido were basically made up (or at least drastically expanded) by later writers trying to romanticize certain aspects of the age, but where do you take your version of D&D with all your other knowledge?
Ok, good questions.

First, if I wanted to tell a story then unless that story was already a D&D game story, I would not use D&D. I would use a narrative and story driven system for that. I use D&D for sandboxes that the PCs can explore, wreck, and build in. I'm not saying it can't be done, it's just not what I'd do.

Second, on the general roleplaying forum here there's the real world weapons and armor threads. I've been following that since it's early incarnations and it's pointed me towards things I wouldn't have looked at in history otherwise. That, Dumas's 'Celebrated Crimes' (essentially mostly accurate tabloid history by the guy who wrote 'Three Musketeers'), and more reading made me realize that real history is way more interesting and complicated than any official setting even tries to approach. Although I haven't delved into the Ebberon stuff too much, that could be an exception.

Third, I'm kind of with Emperor Tippy on this, the rules don't support the dirt farmers, ultra smart monsters that don't do anything, and richer than whole kingdoms superhero PCs paradigm. In the DMG first level NPCs are supposed to have 900 gold in loot/stuff but the base wage is supposed to be 1 silver a day. People say that 90%+ of the population is first level commoners but nobody takes precautions against level draining undead.

On mobile, time up, more later.

Telok

2016-10-03, 07:01 PM

Back.

So what I'm doing in my setting is threefold.
First, I want awesome. Orc grizzly bear cavalry. Organized raids by carnivorous unicorn herds. A mountain that you can climb to meet the gods. A cave under which the underworld/afterlife exists and is a quest in itself. Five hundred pound blackpowder bombs. Dwarven war-wagons with mounted cannons.

Second, I want stuff to make sense in context. A reason magi-tech doesn't work and alter the face of society. A reason that undead apocalypses don't happen regularly when someone casts Enervation and walks away. The party isn't wearing more money than the local barony's population has in total wealth. A reason that super-intelligent magic power monsters aren't ruling countries and eighth level NPC Aristocrats are.

Third, I'd like to use some of the stuff I've learned. Orgies, assassinations, wars, deceit, trials and justice under medieval law. Once you get past the sanitized wimp-history it becomes quite compelling reading, messy too. The standard settings and setting styles are boring and tame after you read some of the good stuff. Those war wagons? They existed. The cultures that I'm using existed, which gives me deeper wells of information to draw on including things I wouldn't have though of myself.

You can say "But fantasy!" and that's fine. But history is rich with the cultures and events that are the source of fantasy. My players expect orcs, elves, and dwarves. Sure, I'll give them those. I can just choose that the dwarves are essentially the German free towns and Hanseatic League. Suddenly I have a ready made culture, laws, traditions, allegiances, and feuds. And if I get something a bit wrong I can wing it off as part of this setting that separates it from real history.

kraftcheese

2016-10-03, 11:20 PM

Back.

So what I'm doing in my setting is threefold.
First, I want awesome. Orc grizzly bear calvary. Organized raids by carnivorus unicorn herds. A mountain that you can climb to meet the gods. A cave under which the underworld/afterlife exists and is a quest in itself. Five hundred pound blackpowder bombs. Dwarven war-wagons with mounted cannons.

Second, I want stuff to make sense in context. A reason magi-tech doesn't work and alter the face of society. A reason that undead apocolypse don't happen regularly when someone casts Enervation and walks away. The party isn't wearing more money than the local barony's population has in total. A reason that super-intelligent magic power monsters aren't ruling countries and tenth level NPC Aristocrats are.

I guess a reason magitech doesn't work could be that you just can't enchant objects; if any magic items (enchanted swords, armour, etc.) exist, they've been created by the gods and are very uncommon. You can cast spells ON an object to affect it in the short term, but nothing holds for long (this would probably mean you'd need to ban a few spells as well)

OR

You could just take the route Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura, the Abhorsen/Old Kingdom books, etc. take and say that anything technologically advanced beyond an arbitrary point won't work with magic around and vice-versa.

Neither sound super satisfying to me (the Abhorsen example works more because there's an ancient magical wall between a medieval country where magic is rife but advanced mechanical things corrode and fall apart, and a 20th century England-ey place where magic doesn't work at all) but YMMV.

Telok

2016-10-04, 01:23 PM

I guess a reason magitech doesn't work could be that

Oh I have that nailed down, it just wasn't pertinent to the races thing. Knowledge was lost when the old empire blew up so A) no magic item can be created at less than the minimum caster level that the item creation feat is available at. B) except for potions, scrolls, wands, etc. any item requires the Permanency spell. C) the entire world is a mild wild magic zone, starting with a 1% chance of a surge for a 5th level spell and increasing by 1% each spell level.

So not many people are making magic items because it requires higher level casters and has about a 1/300 chance of calling down a meteor on you, and a 10-pound cannon costs less then a +1 sword. Even paying for the gunners and powder for a couple years it runs less than a +2 sword while doing 10d6+30 damage with a 600 foot range increment.

Oh, yeah. I did a little research and translated some real blackpowder cannon info into D&D terms. A Cannon Royal is 22 feet long, weighs a bit over 6 tons, uses almost 40 pounds of powder, and throws a 75 pound shot up to 15,000 feet (lousy accuracy at that range though). The cannon costs a little over 9000 gold and each shot is 813 gold (750 of that is the powder). Yeah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanelles_Gun).

VoxRationis

2016-10-04, 02:58 PM

JackRackham

2016-10-05, 10:44 AM

In the world I'm building, halflings are the only group that really has their own territory (or, at least, the only group that isn't also spread around and intermixed). I've refluffed them as fierce bog/marsh people, with oversized feet, who raise buffalo and farm black rice. Theyre way more insular than standard halflings (probably closer to Tolkien's hobbits in this sense, but less happy and contented). They're famous for leading invading armies into their bogs to disappear into the mud, starve, or be eaten by bog lizards. There is also a group that lives more in the foothills that raise goats and uses similar tactics, leading armies higher into the hills/mountains with hit and run attacks, then circles back and surrounds them when they're exhausted and half-starved.

In general, though, I've de-emphasized race by having multiple kingdoms with mixed populations that were separated for centuries. So, the local culture is more significant than race. That's my main wrinkle; having it be an afterthought for most of the world, significant only in a few places.

White Blade

2016-10-05, 10:31 PM

Well, I tried to keep species diversified but also close to their inspirations in various ways as well as open to every class.

• Dwarves were once the helpers of the world's creator. The Daggerhold Dwarves are losing in a generational siege war with the (much more prolific) goblins whose council of elders have surrendered control of their nation to a revanchist dictator (in the classic sense). The Black Banners are exiles from their homes who were driven out of their mountains by vampire ruled orcs and they fill a kind of medieval Jewish role and the role played by Thorin in The Hobbit. The Silverward Dwarves are world-renown craftsman and traders who live under the protection of the (original) Great Silver Wyrm and are regarded by their cousins as indolent, self-indulgent, and scheming. The Godsbane Dwarves are the servitors of the barbarian giants who killed the world's creator.

• The Elves are focused on their cities, per the usage of the Elven rings. They have three (once four) great cities. Mooreless Isle is one part Venice/Paris, one part Pirate Cove, one part Fey Court and sits on a moving island. Angel's Roost is a Shambhala-esque city, where enlightenment (and Exalted feats/PrCs) can be found. Greenshield is kind of a classic Elven Woodland City, though they are stuck in a permanent vendetta with the (original) Great Green Wyrm (because they killed his eldest daughter). The Dayspire was once a classic Crystal Spire city, but about two hundred years ago it vanished, leaving behind a bottomless pit called the Gravemouth. Though most believe the city destroyed by the gods, some whisper that it survives, twisted and cursed, far from the sights of the gods.

• Humanity ruled the (now shattered) empire under the banner of the Crusaders, an alliance of Aasimars (descended from humanity's patron deity, goddess of the sun) Paladins who united many of the steppes land horse rider clans and conquered a broad section of the land rapidly, only to be transformed into Tieflings about forty years ago. Now, there are a couple of major groups - The Old Riders, who still live in the steppes, ride horses, and are ruled by Aasimars who look down on their cursed cousins. The Waveriders, Phoenician/Carthaginian analogues, who never had any aasimar in the first place and live by plying on the oceans and clash with the Moorless Isle occasionally. And a shattered empire that resembles the beginning of dark age Europe or post-Alexander the Great's empire, with charismatic warlords laying claim to a new mandate for the empire.

• Halflings aren't done, but I wanted groups that represented a love of home. One group, the Swamp Landers, are bayou-Cajuns famed for smoking, drinking, and killing crocodiles, looked down upon by foreigners but with a deep-seated pride in their land.

• Gnomes... What is the idea with gnomes? I gave them an Egypt esque culture, with relationships to Brass dragons. But I felt like, "hills pranksters" doesn't really suffice.

• Kobolds aren't really much like bog-standard humanoids at all. They have a lifecycle that more closely resembles hornets (a colony grows up, takes territory, fertilizes bunches of eggs over time, moves them to a new warren and abandons them to hatch on their own), they're aggressively xenophobic (they hate the smell of other races), they were designed as weapons by the chtonic dragon goddess who fought the world's creator, and they eat everything. They're as smart as other races and they can learn, but they seldom have strong rearing and they function naturally as eusocial creatures. And there are lots of them.

• Goblins and Orcs and Giants. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377981-Redoing-The-Monster-Races)

Bohandas

2016-10-06, 12:24 AM

Your world makes a lot of sense, though I'd be left wondering about the context of this arrangement. In a sense you've described a very cosmopolitan society or "melting pot" society.

Regardless of how integrated they are into their host societies, two enclaves on opposite side of the continent should drift apart on their own just from replication errors (although in the specific example in question the elves' long lifespans partially offset this)

Tzi

2016-10-06, 10:18 AM

I've decided to put a new spin on a rarely-spun fantasy race: humans. I feel the freedom to do this because I am currently working on an overhaul of the d20 system (it will only vaguely be recognizable as d20 by the end, I suspect, since the combat works much differently), and so I can play around with the racial characteristics to suit my whims.

Humans are often presented as a dominant species in fantasy settings, and rarely is a halfway decent reason presented for it. Originally, Tolkien did it because his setting is supposed to represent the yielding of a mythic past to a mundane latter age, but people blindly copied him without compensating for the changes they made. So you get a bunch of people spouting ridiculousness like "human numbers" (ignoring that there are usually more rapidly reproducing species of similar intelligence and organizational ability that would outcompete humans if r were truly the deciding factor), "human versatility" (ignoring that at least one race is typically listed as having the specialization of "magic", which is usually pretty damn versatile, and a great force multiplier to boot) or "human determination" (which ignores that dwarves typically move thousands of tons of stone rather than build on the surface, and orcs/goblins persist in attacking enemies in spite of ridiculous casualty rates—both behaviors indicating no lack of perseverance). You even get some people listing traits like "tool use" or "endurance running," which are features that any intelligent creature with a humanoid body plan (and sweat glands, but how many fantasy races don't sweat?) can do—humans are special for those reasons in our world because we are the only extant hominin.

So I decided to eschew the "humans are average" trope and give us something useful that would explain predominance. What I ended up going for is superior social intelligence and empathy. I'm giving humans a bonus to Charisma in the system, and they also get an active racial ability to determine another creature's emotional state. What this means from world-building is that humans are capable of better teamwork and closer community bonds than other races, but also are better at scheming and manipulating. In court intrigue settings, they come out on top; many other races tend to be withdrawing from human communities because they can't compete intra-nationally in this way. Internationally, they are better diplomats, and their strategists gain the edge of better knowledge of rivals' periods of strength and weakness. Thus, humans gain predominance on a strategic or national level even though they might be weaker than dwarves or elves or orcs in other respects.

I give it like this, Humans have the greatest health and fertility of all other races. Humans are highly resilient and healthy compared to other races.

In my setting Elves have developed all sorts of health issues, low fertility and in their later life mental issues associated with their use of magic. Elves in general depend heavily on their magic and it comes with health side effects. Orcs are strong but not as disease resistant as humans, and not as intelligent.

Knitifine

2016-10-19, 11:12 AM

Alright, I promise I'll get to the races, I'm going to have to break down a few basics of my homebrew setting: Gatinya. This is for Pathfinder, so if anything seems unfamiliar... might be based on that version of DnD.

A mortal soul is made up of little motes of immortal energy called 'wisps'. Wisps are the backbone of all magic and life in the setting. Wisps are incredibly good at attuning themselves to the material world around them as well as certain concepts and emotions, in much the same way that carbon is incredibly good a forming chemical bonds. A collection of similarly attuned wisps might spontaneously form an elemental, but for whatever reason they seem to be most attracted to living sapient creatures. All creature naturally absorb wisps around them, but creatures only naturally exude wisps during procreation. Once wisps are part of a soul they're considered to be strongly attuned to each other, which is why tearing apart a soul is so hard. Finally, as immortal energy, there is no way to destroy a wisp, the closest thing you can do it break its bonds.

The biologist of Gatinya have determined species to be a category from which viable crossbreeds can be created. This definition, as in real life, is only pseudo-scientific; a stepping stone towards a better understanding of the natural world. However, it's quite functional as far as pseudo-scientific concepts go and adequately separates the sapient beings of the world into three to five species.

Humans are universally incredible tenacious. They have the remarkable ability to lose limbs without dying from shock, and the ability to live without several of their organs (one kidney, the spleen, their reproductive organs, the appendix, and even a portion of their liver). In particular, the ability of humans to have a significant chunk of their brain removed and not die before neuroplasticity fills in the gap is remarkable. Humans live the same length of time as humans in the real world, as magic supplements their medical and nutritional care in ways similar to modern technology. Humans are considered by many to be the dominant species of the planet as there are few known locations where they must hide in the shadows.
Human Species Traits
+2 Constitution: Humans have incredible endurance.
Will to Live: Humans may choose gain a bonus hit point and skill rank each time they take a level in their favored class. When humans take a level in any other class, they may still gain a bonus hit point.
Tenacity: Humans who may choose to take a racial bonus feat at first level to reflect changes to physiology that were inherited from their parents. If they do not, they instead gain the Tenacity universal monster ability.

Elves, fey, spiritfolk and genie are but many names for a singular species of graceful, magically attuned humanoids. They live about 1.5 times as long as humans under the same conditions. Their appearance is often considered to be exceptionally supernatural. This is because the absorb wisps more efficiently than any other creature. This results in varieties such as the fauns (whose souls are composed of forest-attuned wisps), efreeti (whose souls are composed of fire-attuned wisps) and aasimar (whose souls are compose of tranquility-attuned wisps). This means that an elf child's physical appearance is affected by the wisps present during their conception. Thus, two dusk elves who conceive a child under the morning sun at a private mountain retreat might have a child who appears to have dawn elf heritage. Similarly, if the conception of a child involves more than two partners, the child might resemble a partner who didn't biologically contribute to their conception. The child’s appearance can also be affected by events during pregnancy. Elves are typically taller and lighter than humans, and elf woman are typically taller and heavier than elf men.
Elf Species Traits
+2 Dexterity: Elves are incredibly graceful.
Keen Senses: Elves gain a +2 species bonus to Perception checks.
Magic Absorption: As a swift action elves open themselves to absorbing the magic around them. This effect is invisible, but detect magic and similar effects can identify it. Whenever the elf is effected by a magic effect in the round following activating this ability they may attempt to absorb it. They must make a Fortitude save (DC as if the magical effect required a Fortitude Save). If they succeed the magical effect fails and they lose access to this ability until they get a full night’s rest.

Beastfolk, also known as Hengeyokai, and Therianthropes are a people who share similarity with earthly beasts such as wolves, tigers, crocodiles, eagles, and even stranger things. Beastfolk are large and imposing, typically being quite a bit stronger than elves and humans. However they are more likely to define themselves by their natural ability to change shape. Each beastfolk can assume the form of a singular elf and human from birth. The beastfolk are said to originate in the Maphumi, where they are known to be natural shapeshifters. When they journeyed to the western part of that continent a significant portion of them face persecution and so tries to avoid using this shape-shifting quality, either by staying in the form of another species or their own natural form. This is very unhealthy for a beastfolk and has resulted in problems for their descendants. Those who stayed in their natural form too long lost their shapeshifting ability, and so did their children. These beastfolk are known to others of their species as the "forlorn" and typically inhabit Ishatu. Others, who stayed in the form of elves and humans for too long, lost their ability to control when they shapeshifted. This caused erratic bursts of shapeshifting back to their natural form that is typically accompanied by anger and confusion. Because a beastfolk in another species form can have children with that species, they also lost their identity as a distinct species and this resulted in therianthropes who typically think of themselves more as afflicted humans and elves. Beastfolk are larger and heavier than humans and elves, but have no different in height and weight between genders.

Beastfolk Species Traits
+2 Strength: Beastfolk are incredibly strong.
Naturally Lethal: Beastfolk supplement their unarmed attacks with claws, teeth and weight. They gain improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat and may make unarmed attacks that deal slashing or piercing damage instead of bludgeoning if they so choose.
Beastfolk Shapeshifting: Beastfolk have the shapechanger subtype. Beastfolk gain one of the following variants of beastfolk shapeshifting at 1st level. Once this decision is made, it is permanent unless the GM says otherwise.
Hengeyokai Shapeshifting: Hengeyokai may take a human or elf form. Each of these forms is always the same, and they share at least one trait between each other (eye color for instance).
Forlorn: Forlorn cannot change their shape, though they retain the shapechanger subtype. They are always considered unwilling targets to friendly shape change magic and must always make a save to avoid the effect, even if the spell was cast by themselves. They gain a +2 species bonus to saving throws against such magic. Magic the restores a forlorn to its natural form is always succeeds.
Therianthropes: Therianthrope choose either their elf or human form. This is considered to be their natural form, and their beastfolk form is considered to be an altered form for the purposes of spells and abilities. Therianthropes in beastfolk form gain all the benefits and drawbacks of the barbarian’s rage class feature. They can only stay in beastfolk form for a number of rounds equal to their character level, and once they leave beast form they become fatigued for twice the number of rounds they spent in beastfolk form. Therianthropes who are sent into a rage due to other effects may take on their beastfolk form for the duration of that rage, and suffer it’s benefits and consequences instead of the ones listed above. They may also use their natural rounds of rage to extend that rage effect.
A beastfolk in human form loses the +2 species bonus to Strength and gains a +2 species bonus to Constitution (if their cultural bonus is also to Constitution, they instead retain their bonus to Strength), and they lose Naturally Lethal and gains Will to Live. A beastfolk in elf form loses the +2 species bonus to Strength and gains a +2 species bonus to Dexterity (if their cultural bonus is also to Dexterity, they instead retain their bonus to Strength), and they lose Naturally Lethal and gains Keen Senses.

Dragons are considered by most to be imperfect gods, as they combine all the best traits of mortals. However some classify them as a type of mortal. Whether dragons can die from old age is not entirely clear. All dragons are natural shape changers, incredibly tough, and able to absorb magic. Like the elves their type is primarily based on the wisps present at an early point in their development (in the dragon's case, during incubation). Dragons tend to be extremely rare. In game terms, all dragons have Will to Live, Tenacity, Keen Senses, Magic Absorption, Naturally Lethally, and a variant of Hengeyokai Shapeshifting that allows them to assume the form of a beastfolk, elf or human.

The Arisen, like dragons, are not always considered mortals. Primarily because they are not humanoids, but instead a result of symbiosis between a disease known as the Red Plague and humanoids. The Arisen can be drawn from any species, the disease modifying the creature’s body to take on a bright scarlet color, and grow bony metallic chitin. Arisen are incredibly dangerous, because though the disease has an unusual effect on the host's mind, it does not affect their intelligence or memories. When one first becomes Arisen they become overwhelmed with anger, and are drawn to humanoids like flies, able to sense living and dead bodies almost supernaturally. Though they are still intelligent they often find communication to be just as difficult as self-control. Eventually the rage wears itself out, but by the time that has happened the former humanoid often views themselves as having passed a threshold of violence and betrayal that they can never cross back from. Arisen in this calmed state sadly tend to meet one of two fates: they either kill themselves, or they embrace their role in spreading the Red Plague.

Arisen Species Traits
+2 Charisma: Arisen have strong personalities, and enhanced emotions.
Arisen Rage: For the first year after becoming Arisen, the Arisen are sent into a mad rage. This functions as the barbarian’s Rage class feature except that they must also make a Will Save (DC 20 + their character level) to speak coherently, if they do so they gain a +2 species bonus on any Intimidate check they choose to make. After a year has passed the Arisen loses this trait and instead gains Arisen Calm.
Assimilated: Arisen have all the species traits of the species they were before becoming Arisen. They lose any cultural traits they possessed.
Chitin: Arisen have a +2 armor bonus to AC as a result of the metallic chitin that grows from their body. They cannot wear conventional armor, if for some reason the Arisen is trapped in conventional armor when first change, the armor is destroyed.
Disease:Arisen are all carriers of the Red Plague, and they automatically inflict the disease on foes.
Type disease (injury); Save Fortitude DC 20 + afflicted character’s level.
Onset 24 hours; Frequency 1/hour
Effect 2 Cha damage, if the target’s charisma is reduced to 0 by this effect, they die and return to life as an Arisen in a number of hours equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1). Cure None. Nothing short of divine intervention beyond the limits of what the miracle spell allows can cure Red Plague. Any spell cast in an attempt to cure the Red Plague instead permanently increases the DC by 2.

At this point you're probably noticed that I use the term "species" a lot and "race" not a lot. That's because species =/= race. Race is similar to the real world idea of race, and has a strong relationship with culture. Each of the three major mortal species have a variety of cultures to choose from that give them a +1 bonus to four skills, weapon proficiency in four weapons, four at-will cantrips or some mix of those three traits that results in a net gain of 4 adjustments. They also gain a +2 bonus to one ability score (which has special rules with interacting with their species so as to not leave anyone with a +4 bonus). Each culture has a specific race that's its synonymous with, if that race has some kind of supernatural history they might have a 1st level feat associated with them. Beastfolk, due to their wide variety of physical appearances are also likely to have a 1st level feat associated with their type. There's a big document for this, but this isn’t my thread so let my just give you one example.

People from the region of Orotera gain the following bonuses.
+2 Charisma: Oroterans are typically charming and well-spoken due to the high emphasis on etiquette placed in their culture.
Skill Bonuses: Oroterans have a +1 cultural bonus to Appraise, Diplomacy, Knowledge (Religion) and Profession (Miner).

The native people of Orotera are the Muervians, a type of human who have been changed via necromantic magic to be resistant to the Red Plague. A human may choose the Muervian Heritage feat to reflect inheriting these specific aspects.
Muervian Heritage
Your character has inherited the physiological changes made by the ancient pact between the Muervian people and the goddess of death, Muerta
Prerequisite: Human or werewolf, can only be taken at 1st level.
Benefit:. Your heart is located in the exact center of your chest, directly behind your sternum. It exudes a powerful glow that from the outside can be seen as faint bioluminescence when your chest is uncovered. While this is not bright enough to change the light levels of an area, if your chest is exposed while in total darkness you can be seen without a perception check (invisibility hides this glow). You are immune to the Red Plague and nonmagical diseases. Additionally, you always register to divination effects as if you were dying.

Finally, here’s a snap shot of how all the core races (and some others) fit into the setting.
Dwarves and Gnomes: There is an elven race that are called dwarves derisively, but prefer the term gnome. Their culture (the people of Dragonridge), favor earth magic, worship a basilisk-centaur god, and generally enjoy mining and typically dwarfy things. They have a super complex society with a lot of cultural taboos, they tend to think in highly organized ways… but often not the same highly organize way, which leads to each generation of gnome squabbling with themselves and the previous generation. They get a Constitution bonus.
Elf: Elves, obviously, have been covered as a species. The three main types of elves common in most settings are equivalent to different culture. The eladrin/grey elves/high elves are equivalent to the Alfarheim culture that is similar to a post WW2 Germany (including eugenics and war crimes bit), their native people are called the Alfar. The wood elves are equivalent to the Memodasans, who form triads for their family structure and generally just wanna be left alone. Their native Memodasans are the Fauns, who typically have animalistic features like… well fauns. Finally the drow equivalent would by the people of Dokkheim, I guess? I mean, aesthetically the natives of Dokkheim look similar to drow and are actually called the Drow, however their culture is more closely comparable to the Roma, as a people who live primarily in mobile homes, face lots of persecution and have their culture co-opted for spooky stories.
Half-Elves and Half-Orcs: Half-Elves don’t exists. Humans and elves can’t have children. The closest you might get is if you had a human who was the partner of two elves who had a child and was around for the conception and then pregnancy. That child would likely have some superficial human traits, but… they’d still be an elf.
Halflings: These map to a type of human called the Hodarans. They’re from the native people of Paratama, who are a highly traditional people who are good friends with the draw due to having similar mistrust from the other cultures. Historically, imagine if an untouchable caste banded together, got up and just left. That’s the Hodara. Ironically, they’re also the primary consultant for people who want to go Maphumi, which is the continent they came from.
Orc: Orcs are a type of elf. They live on the plains, they have a strength bonus, their culture is all about personal battle prowess as status. They pretty much hate the beastfolk, due to trade disputes and are constantly at war with various beastfolk nations at any given time. They all have a single leader who they pay a tribute of furs too. They’re the people who domesticated pigs, and they still hunt boar for sport and food. Some people think they’re actually boar/pig beastfolk because of the tusks and strength. They tend to have names based on their deeds, but are good sports about it. (Ie, the guy who calls himself Wolfhide because killed a pack of wolves single handedly is still respected by the woman named Dragonbane.)

Bohandas

2016-10-21, 02:59 AM

I have an issue with the use of the classical elements as literal laws of a game setting, even in a fantasy world, and this is because on a surface level, everything still functions normally. A human under a setting or system with the classical elements functions just like a human with the chemical elements: they eat, they drink, they sleep, they have blood in a closed circulatory system, fire burns them (and this fact combined with their need for air and water kills any idea of humans being from equal parts of the elements), swords cut them, etc. Presumably, at the lowest level, a four-elements human has to function in a different way, but the place where they transition from this to the familiar biology is rarely made clear.

It works better if we consider the elements not as the atoms but as the quarks and preons. It's already canon that air and positive energy make lightning. That's our electron If we also assume that the quasielemental ooze between earth and water is acidic that gives us our proton. We can continue more or less normally from there

In that case, fire doesn't fit the theme either. Fire is a process, just like life.

to be fair, positive energy/life force is also one of the elements in standard D&D

gtwucla

2016-10-21, 04:59 AM

I've decided to put a new spin on a rarely-spun fantasy race: humans. I feel the freedom to do this because I am currently working on an overhaul of the d20 system (it will only vaguely be recognizable as d20 by the end, I suspect, since the combat works much differently), and so I can play around with the racial characteristics to suit my whims.

Humans are often presented as a dominant species in fantasy settings, and rarely is a halfway decent reason presented for it. Originally, Tolkien did it because his setting is supposed to represent the yielding of a mythic past to a mundane latter age, but people blindly copied him without compensating for the changes they made. So you get a bunch of people spouting ridiculousness like "human numbers" (ignoring that there are usually more rapidly reproducing species of similar intelligence and organizational ability that would outcompete humans if r were truly the deciding factor), "human versatility" (ignoring that at least one race is typically listed as having the specialization of "magic", which is usually pretty damn versatile, and a great force multiplier to boot) or "human determination" (which ignores that dwarves typically move thousands of tons of stone rather than build on the surface, and orcs/goblins persist in attacking enemies in spite of ridiculous casualty rates—both behaviors indicating no lack of perseverance). You even get some people listing traits like "tool use" or "endurance running," which are features that any intelligent creature with a humanoid body plan (and sweat glands, but how many fantasy races don't sweat?) can do—humans are special for those reasons in our world because we are the only extant hominin.

So I decided to eschew the "humans are average" trope and give us something useful that would explain predominance. What I ended up going for is superior social intelligence and empathy. I'm giving humans a bonus to Charisma in the system, and they also get an active racial ability to determine another creature's emotional state. What this means from world-building is that humans are capable of better teamwork and closer community bonds than other races, but also are better at scheming and manipulating. In court intrigue settings, they come out on top; many other races tend to be withdrawing from human communities because they can't compete intra-nationally in this way. Internationally, they are better diplomats, and their strategists gain the edge of better knowledge of rivals' periods of strength and weakness. Thus, humans gain predominance on a strategic or national level even though they might be weaker than dwarves or elves or orcs in other respects.

I go the complete opposite direction and make humans essentially physically inferior to the native species of the world (even though they repopulate at a much higher rate). That, however, doesn't necessarily mean that the other beings in this world go through wiping them out for no greater reason than more resources. The elves are clearly the dominant power, standing on average around 7 ft. tall, well built, with strong traditions. There's some variance between states as far as traditions, but otherwise, they value history, pomp, and status. There are very few orcs left as they were never numerous (their gestation period is upwards to two years and give violent birth, so a high percentage of orc females die), but they are robust, as tall as elves and appear statuesque as if chiseled from stone.

As far as variation goes, I like to hint at differences. Every race has a convoluted past and its clear (without saying directly) that some were genetically engineered. I like to run with the theory that an interdimensional race came to this world to experiment and create the perfect form. That's why races like dwarves, elves, and orcs are much hardier than humans (but some like the orcs are somewhat genetically dysfunctional), and some do not age at all. With that said, humans do have the advantage of being tied to this earth in the same way as the fae (the other native species of this world, but exist as amorphous energy that can take shape at will), so they have a decidedly more 'lucky' primeval connection to the world and thus magic (and gain some advantages there).

Bohandas

2016-10-21, 08:42 AM

...which are features that any intelligent creature with a humanoid body plan (and sweat glands, but how many fantasy races don't sweat?)

I think one 9f the characters in Journey to the West was some kind of pig-man, does that count?

VoxRationis

2016-10-21, 09:51 AM

I think one 9f the characters in Journey to the West was some kind of pig-man, does that count?

It might (depending on just how pig-like they were), but such disparate races are rarely used for this kind of contrast.

raygun goth

2016-10-21, 02:20 PM

I know I've talked about them before, but I have ten races in one of my homebrew bananas.

Humans are the magically powerful, super-endurance race. They have awesome cities and flying machines and they're in astrological ascendance. They are all over the place.

Golems are made by humans. They are basically 1930s-1950s sci fi robitts. When they're in the area, they "inspire" stuff. Plants grow bigger and cooler, people get more creative, and so on. They used to have to be made in a factory but now they can sing each other out of the dirt (it's complicated).

Maize-cutters are dromaeosaurs. They're basically big birds. They hop around, use their mouth as a manipulator, and have weird sideways hands that aren't too great for grabbing things, but they make do. They tend to live far from humans in the woods, humans call them "little siblings."

Phoonkt live in the ocean and are best described as Opabinia as imagined by Dustin Browder. To them, humans are freaky-deaky monsters that live in such low pressure environments it's a wonder they don't explode. They are rarely outside their cool biosuits and it is hard to tell where the suit ends and the phoonkt begins.

Iokyu are three-eyed black clouds from outer space that feed on cultural context. Stuff with lots of cultural importance works like gravity to them. To give an example, to them, Hope Diamond = Jupiter. They can possess another race to stave off this crazy, but they can't leave until all culture is gone. They're here for a while.

Genesis is a demon space virus that got here on some rocks from an exploding planet. Ordinarily their ecosystem acts like a planet-sized virus, but you know how when you get over a cold and now that cold virus is in you and part of you and even helps you fight off future colds? It's like that.

Yeeneegahlessdee or "The Language" is an intelligent, self-observing communication method. They lay their procagnates in nests of lies to protect them while they develop. Once the cognate gets strong enough to break out of the web of lies on its own, it is considered an adult. They look like metallic asparagus when they enter the physical world.

Sky-People have hollow heads with a blue light in them. They buzz around in the sky, mine clouds, and in general do UFO/alien things (no, not probing). They look like misshapen white lights when they're flying around and can get together into bigger shapes. They are mysterious and strange and speak with buzzing voices.

Narhoojai are psychic, shapeshifting, underground-dwelling pterosaurs in the vein of the Mahar from Pellucidar and the reptoids from pop culture, except they're not typically jerks. They don't interact with the surface world much and tend to ferry messages from the planet back and forth to other races. Popular myth says they screwed up something so bad in the past they've been reduced to the planet's messenger squad.

The Seventh Race is basically a giant bdelloid rotifer that is all-female and can breed with anything. They form little hives of hybrids in out-of-the-way places. They're "new," being only a few decades old at most, and are having trouble figuring out who they are and where they fit in to everything.

Each of these races has cosmological significance to the world, elementally and otherwise.

Xuc Xac

2016-10-21, 04:34 PM

I have an issue with the use of the classical elements as literal laws of a game setting, even in a fantasy world, and this is because on a surface level, everything still functions normally. A human under a setting or system with the classical elements functions just like a human with the chemical elements: they eat, they drink, they sleep, they have blood in a closed circulatory system, fire burns them (and this fact combined with their need for air and water kills any idea of humans being from equal parts of the elements), swords cut them, etc. Presumably, at the lowest level, a four-elements human has to function in a different way, but the place where they transition from this to the familiar biology is rarely made clear.

In the real world, we know that humans are mostly made of water. We still drown if submerged in it. We need oxygen to metabolize our food for energy, but pure oxygen is toxic. Everything in the human body depends on balance. Not enough of something? You die. Too much of it? You die. Why should the classic elements be any different?

raygun goth

2016-10-21, 04:55 PM

How exactly do you define the word "gender". Because your use of it here seems entirely divorced from the common definition of the term, even as used by the progressive left. I suspect that you're either using an obscure technical definition of the term that nobody else here is, and/or that you've been reading books originally written in some other language and in which some untranslatable term has been rendered in English as "gender" due to the translator being unable to find a more exact translation.

My use is the use I learned in anthropology and sociology:

Gender: The classes distinguished by the different pronoun inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them, typically with regards to (and in combination of) sexual role, mode of dress, and standard of behavior.

You bet being a magician in tons of cultures was a straight-up gender, with clear rules for sexual activity. Notably the Rus, the Pacific just... in general, some Inuit peoples, and more than a few African cultures.

Just like the definition of "myth" that I was taught is "that which is most true to a culture, regardless of historicity." - I understand that it may not be the "common" definition, but the "common" definition of the word "theory" is very different from its use in the sciences.

Bringing this back to races, the term "species" can get weird, too. First, it can be really reductive to think of it as "a genetically distinct population," considering events like ERV, horizontal gene transfer, and freaky stuff like line species or spiral species (that's like a ring species except some of the spokes on the wheel can interbreed).

Hybrid speciation is when you get a new species out of genetically distinct populations re-merging after a period apart. Check out the skua (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skua)or the eastern coyote (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_coyote) for cool examples. There are animals of the same genera that can't produce viable offspring, but animals in whole other genera from each other that can - false killer whales (Pseudorca crassidens) and bottlenose dolphins (Tursiops truncatus) can have viable hybrid offspring, and we won't even get into king snakes, rat snakes, and corn snakes.

Felidae is really awesome - carnivorans are divided into two large groups. Felidae and canidae. Pretty much everything in Felidae can produce offspring with each other, no matter how distant they seem. Domestic cats can breed with ocelots and Caracals, for Pelor's sake. Domestic chickens and guinea fowl can interbreed. We could talk about dioecious creatures, which have sexes but cannot reproduce sexually.

Cnemidophorus neomexicanus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnemidophorus) is actually a hybrid of two sexual species, Cnemidophorus inornatus and C. marmoratus (or C. tigris, according to Wikipedia), and thus new individuals of this species can be formed either by parthenogenesis in a single C. neomexicanus parent, or sexual reproduction between a male and female C. inornatus and C. marmoratus/C. tigris.

Canids are a complete mess and I won't get into them, but you get the idea.

Deepbluediver

2016-10-21, 05:34 PM

My use is the use I learned in anthropology and sociology:

Gender: The classes distinguished by the different pronoun inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them, typically with regards to (and in combination of) sexual role, mode of dress, and standard of behavior.

You bet being a magician in tons of cultures was a straight-up gender, with clear rules for sexual activity. Notably the Rus, the Pacific just... in general, some Inuit peoples, and more than a few African cultures.
I feel like you're conflating different things that have similar characteristics, and calling a "gender" what most other people would think of as a castes. Going by this definition, what we typically think of as "nobility" would be a different gender.

Bringing this back to races, the term "species" can get weird, too. First, it can be really reductive to think of it as "a genetically distinct population," considering events like ERV, horizontal gene transfer, and freaky stuff like line species or spiral species (that's like a ring species except some of the spokes on the wheel can interbreed).
In D&D 3.5 at least, almost everything can be hybridized with almost everything else somehow- I don't see why that has to change what people mean when they talk about creature-types or races.

raygun goth

2016-10-21, 06:01 PM

I feel like you're conflating different things that have similar characteristics, and calling a "gender" what most other people would think of as a castes. Going by this definition, what we typically think of as "nobility" would be a different gender.

If I'm conflating these things, so is all of anthropological study. Do nobles have a tight list of people they can have sex with or particular sex acts they are allowed to perform with, or sexually-signifying methods of dress? I don't mean to be crude, but I don't think European nobles had rules like "can blow people with penises, but can't participate in anal sex." When I say "mages can be a gender," I'm referring to things like the quariwarmi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#The_Americas). I understand it sounds crazy to people from a heteronormative culture but it is very common outside America and Europe. Hell, I grew up in a place where there were culturally FOUR GENDERS and that was in the bounds of the United States.

Max_Killjoy

2016-10-21, 08:43 PM

If I'm conflating these things, so is all of anthropological study. Do nobles have a tight list of people they can have sex with or particular sex acts they are allowed to perform with, or sexually-signifying methods of dress? I don't mean to be crude, but I don't think European nobles had rules like "can blow people with penises, but can't participate in anal sex." When I say "mages can be a gender," I'm referring to things like the quariwarmi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#The_Americas). I understand it sounds crazy to people from a heteronormative culture but it is very common outside America and Europe. Hell, I grew up in a place where there were culturally FOUR GENDERS and that was in the bounds of the United States.

If that's how "gender" is being used, then within that area of study it's being abused as a term of art.

Deepbluediver

2016-10-21, 09:44 PM

Do nobles have a tight list of people they can have sex with or particular sex acts they are allowed to perform with, or sexually-signifying methods of dress? I don't mean to be crude, but I don't think European nobles had rules like "can blow people with penises, but can't participate in anal sex."
Are we discussing biological sex, the physical act of procreation and/or pleasure, social norms, self-identity, or something else?
I'm pretty sure that nobles did have rules, lots of them. And lots of people didn't follow those rules, because ideals and reality often differ significantly, but there were rules about how nobles should dress and how they should act and who they should marry, and judaeo-christian centric cultures have had limitations on sex for a long time.

When I say "mages can be a gender," I'm referring to things like the quariwarmi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender#The_Americas). I understand it sounds crazy to people from a heteronormative culture but it is very common outside America and Europe. Hell, I grew up in a place where there were culturally FOUR GENDERS and that was in the bounds of the United States.
I've got no problem with having races or cultures that are like that- or that have different concepts of what is appropriate for each gender. If you want to play a trans-orc in my gameworld, then fine, whatever makes you happy. And I'm pretty sure we've even had several suggestions in this thread for races that simply don't function biologically on the 2-gender model, or that are so alien that our basic concepts of gender don't apply, and some of them sound really interesting. But most D&D-style games are set largely in a medieval-European setting. If you're going to create a world where the concept of gender as most of your PLAYERS understand it does not exist, what does that add to the game?

I'm honestly asking here- I'm not trying to say you can't or shouldn't, but I want to know how you use a third or fourth (or more genders) to make the gameworld more interesting and appealing for your group.

If I'm conflating these things, so is all of anthropological study.
Are we trying to win an argument in gender-studies class or share interesting ideas for a game-world?
I don't recall you actually explaining how you used gender except to say that "you didn't do it like everyone else does". You can have caste-gender associations that are exclusive so that particular combination, but that doesn't mean that a male-female gender divide doesn't exist elsewhere.

Bohandas

2016-10-21, 10:56 PM

Bohandas

2016-10-21, 11:09 PM

If I'm conflating these things, so is all of anthropological study. Do nobles have a tight list of people they can have sex with

Yes! Historically they weren't supposed to marry or be in relationships with commoners.

Furthermore, anthropological study is only just barely more legitimate than philosophy

Benthesquid

2016-10-21, 11:16 PM

My ghouls are, consistently, friendly, reasonable, and chatty. They'll gladly provide information to adventurers, and even offer to lend a hand if appropriately compensated (IE with a fresh juicy human baby to munch on). They'll still murder you and eat your entrails if they sense even an instant of weakness, but they'll do it with such a lack of ill-will that my players have a hard time holding it against them.

Also my dwarves are all steppe farmers.

Bohandas

2016-10-22, 12:31 AM

...but how many fantasy races don't sweat?

The various variations on lizardfolk, for one.

Max_Killjoy

2016-10-22, 09:06 AM

Yes! Historically they weren't supposed to marry or be in relationships with commoners.

Furthermore, anthropological study is only just barely more legitimate than philosophy

That's hardly fair, or true. Anthropology is for the most part a full and rigorous science, where it's not contaminated by nutters, agendas, or postmodernism. Philosophy is fine as long as it remembers to include an empirical element and doesn't devolve into "is the chair real?" navel-gazing nonsense.

Deepbluediver

2016-10-22, 09:44 AM

The various variations on lizardfolk, for one.
I've also seen an awful lot of reptilian-looking races where the "females" are still drawn with breasts though.

raygun goth

2016-10-22, 01:51 PM

Are we trying to win an argument in gender-studies class or share interesting ideas for a game-world?
I'm don't recall you actually explaining how you used gender except to say that "you didn't do it like everyone else does". You can have caste-gender associations that are exclusive so that particular combination, but that doesn't mean that a male-female gender divide doesn't exist elsewhere.

I'm being blatantly told I am wrong, despite having actual training in this matter - I have given a definition, but no one else has bothered to give me one of theirs. A rather concise one. It has been danced around. It is as if I am a geologist and am being told that "rocks" aren't real, man, and that anthropology isn't real science, by people who probably have never had to fill out a context sheet. It is intensely frustrating.

It's probably me, I'm probably not communicating concepts properly. I do have this problem.

I'm not saying the male-female divide as a metric for determining gender didn't exist elsewhere, I'm saying that the divide is far more varied and a much larger grey area and based less on your junk than most people believe. That's all I'm getting at, and that it is poor design to say "male orcs act like X" when that's not even consistently true of non-intelligent Earthenarian animal species. That's it.

Otherwise I'm just trying to bring this back to races and species.

BladeofObliviom

2016-10-22, 02:11 PM

I'm not going to get involved in the main argument again (though I'm still cleanly on raygun_goth's side of the fence, as someone a few credits short of completing an Anthropology minor, whatever that's worth); we already had it once, and it got split off into another thread, but I'll call attention to one detail.

I'm honestly asking here- I'm not trying to say you can't or shouldn't, but I want to know how you use a third or fourth (or more genders) to make the gameworld more interesting and appealing for your group.

Are we trying to win an argument in gender-studies class or share interesting ideas for a game-world?

I find this dismissal somewhat misaimed on the basis that more often than not, players don't give half a whit about any aspect of the game world that differs from their preconceptions anyway, unless it applies directly to their murderhoboing. If we insist that cultural aspects in a game world are relevant only in how they interact with the players, we can probably toss out most aspects of culture.

Because unless the players are very RP-heavy, they usually don't care at all. And if they ARE the RP-heavy sort that really want to immerse themselves in a world very different from their own, asking western players to acknowledge a third (or fourth or fifth) gender with accompanying social dynamics IS an interesting and relevant addition.

Bohandas

2016-10-22, 02:28 PM

I'm being blatantly told I am wrong, despite having actual training in this matter - I have given a definition. A rather concise one. It has been danced around. It is as if I am a geologist and am being told that "rocks" aren't real, man, and that anthropology isn't real science, by people who probably have never had to fill out a context sheet. It is intensely frustrating.

It's probably me, I'm probably not communicating concepts properly. I do have this problem.

I'm not saying the male-female divide as a metric for determining gender didn't exist elsewhere, I'm saying that the divide is far more varied and a much larger grey area and based less on your junk than most people believe. That's all I'm getting at, and that it is poor design to say "male orcs act like X" when that's not even consistently true of non-intelligent Earthenarian animal species. That's it.

Otherwise I'm just trying to bring this back to races and species.

The issue is that you're injecting that definition into a discussion clearly concerned with an entirely unrelated* meaning of the term. It's like if we were discussing condominium apartments and you came in and started talking about joint sovereignty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condominium_(international_law)) (and then someone else misinterpreted that as being about marijuana regulation). Or if we were discussing teleportation and you came in talking about cherry pickers (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/teleporter). Or if someone somehow conflated "secretary" as in a personal assistant with "secretary" as in a government departmet head (or for those of you from England, if someone confused a "minister" as in a cleric with a "minister" as in a government department head).

*Or at least unrelated outside the realm of obscure etymological trivia

LudicSavant

2016-10-22, 04:09 PM

Furthermore, anthropological study is only just barely more legitimate than philosophy

If you don't think anthropology and sociology (e.g. the scientific study of cultures) is legitimately relevant to a discussion of culture, pray tell, what do you think is?

Deepbluediver

2016-10-22, 05:32 PM

If you don't think anthropology and sociology (e.g. the scientific study of cultures) is legitimately relevant to a discussion of culture, pray tell, what do you think is?
Personally I think it can be a great help- provided you use it for inspiration and not constriction. Keep in mind that we are designing fantasy worlds that can be whatever we want them to be. If I want a world in which no sentient creature was ever born with the wrong "equipment" (sorry, trying to keep my terminology PG-13) then I can make such a world. You might not like it, but so long as I'm the one in charge of making the rules I can basically do whatever I want.

It's only "wrong", if you want to use that word, if I start claiming that my world is realistic. And frankly, I thought we abandoned realism about the time the wizard started shooting fireballs out of his elbows.

Now, I usually don't try to restrict people from doing whatever they want- that's the whole point IMO of fantasy roleplaying. The only thing I really don't like is when someone tries telling me that I MUST do something because "that's the way it really worked" or implying that may way of doing things is wrong because I don't push whatever sociological agenda they want me to push.

Max_Killjoy

2016-10-22, 09:56 PM

If I'm conflating these things, so is all of anthropological study. Do nobles have a tight list of people they can have sex with

Now, to me, this sounds like saying "because gender can restrict who it is socially acceptable for a person to "be" with, anything that restricts who it is socially acceptable to "be" with is gender".

:smallconfused:

Skippythehobo

2016-10-29, 04:56 PM

I also took anthropology, so perhaps I can clarify that point somewhat. First, a disclaimer: there are many different definitions of gender in anthropology, with countless nuances. There is no universally accepted definition, and the subject is rife with not only the usual academic disagreement, but also political difficulties. Though honestly, that sentence applies to just about anything in anthro.

However, there's this handy, if crude, rule of thumb to see whether something is a gender or not: is this category equivalent to and exclusive with the equivalent of the male/female genders in context of the culture in question? And are there practices surrounding this gender that distiguishes them from those two?

A good example that will likely be familiar to the history fans here is that of the eunuchs of the Byzantine empire. These were biological males who were castrated at puberty to serve as bureaucrats and palace servants. They were not men, though, as they did not have and weren't expected to have the usual masculine traits. They could not marry, they weren't ever expected to fight or work in masculine professions, and they dressed and acted differently than men. The Byzantines regarded them very much as a third category, and just as there were certain expectations and stereotypes for men and women, eunuchs had a third set of stereotypes and expectations.

Nobles are not a separate gender, because any given noble is also a man or a woman, and gendered expectations that apply to a nobleman also apply to common men, and ditto for women of different ranks. Nobility is therefore a classification unrelated to gender.

The situation is somewhat complicated by the interaction between gender and status, differing definitions of man/woman across cultures, and the existence of indeterminate genders and politically transgendered exceptions. I mean, people make careers out of these discussions.

Bohandas

2016-10-29, 05:01 PM

A good example that will likely be familiar to the history fans here is that of the eunuchs of the Byzantine empire. These were biological males who were castrated at puberty

Which consequentially makes them physically/biologically distinct from biologically male.

Deepbluediver

2016-10-29, 06:00 PM

I also took anthropology, so perhaps I can clarify that point somewhat. First, a disclaimer: there are many different definitions of gender in anthropology, with countless nuances. There is no universally accepted definition, and the subject is rife with not only the usual academic disagreement, but also political difficulties. Though honestly, that sentence applies to just about anything in anthro.
Ok, fine, but then if someone is doing something different than normal with gender, they should specify which gender-definition you are referring to.

A good example that will likely be familiar to the history fans here is that of the eunuchs of the Byzantine empire.
I'm not sure that's a good example- if you cut off someone's hand and forced them to wear a dress, would that be a third gender? These eunuchs were a culturally different group, for sure, but does I still don't see how that's more gender-related than class-related.

Edit: Actually I withdraw the question- I don't think it's a productive use of space in this thread, and I think it really boils down to how you define gender.

Look, if someone wants to make a biologically tri-gendered (or multi-gendered even) race, that's fine by me. If you want to design their culture so they've eunuchs or the female equivalent of that (didn't the amazon's cut one breast off?) or something else entirely, then go for it! It's great that we can create fantasy worlds to whatever specifications we want. But that's not everyone's thing, and not everyone should have to do that- it's just one more option in the bag.

Also, I think we're getting offtopic here.

Bohandas

2016-10-29, 08:14 PM

Look, if someone wants to make a biologically tri-gendered (or multi-gendered even) race, that's fine by me. If you want to design their culture so they've eunuchs or the female equivalent of that (didn't the amazon's cut one breast off?)

The female equivalent would be an ovariohysterectomy

EDIT:
And from a biological perspective the result would be equivalent except in terms of gross anatomy

Deepbluediver

2016-10-29, 11:53 PM

The female equivalent would be an ovariohysterectomy

EDIT:
And from a biological perspective the result would be equivalent except in terms of gross anatomy
I would assume that, historically, there weren't to many female eunuchs. Sort of like how there probably weren't to many female Knights in medieval Europe.

Bohandas

2016-10-30, 12:17 AM

I would assume that, historically, there weren't to many female eunuchs. Sort of like how there probably weren't to many female Knights in medieval Europe.

Probably but driven by different issues, namely ease of access to relevant parts and the proclivities of the men in charge of things

Knitifine

2016-10-30, 12:28 PM

The female equivalent would be an ovariohysterectomy
For the record, this surgery is vastly more difficult to perform without the patient dying than castration (speaking from a historical perspective, it's not a terribly risky surgery by modern medicine standards).

Bohandas

2016-10-30, 12:46 PM

For the record, this surgery is vastly more difficult to perform without the patient dying than castration (speaking from a historical perspective, it's not a terribly risky surgery by modern medicine standards).

Nonetheless that is the female equivalent (well, if you wanna get really technical oophorectomy is the female equivale t)

PhoenixPhyre

2016-11-03, 10:49 AM

I decided to put a small spin on goblinoids (like many before me). Preface--there is no such thing as binding alignment in my setting. All races have the whole spread of behaviors.

For the long version, go here. (http://www.admiralbenbo.org/index.php/the-council-lands/people-and-places/14-people-places-and-factions/23-beast-races-the-goblins)

The short version is that goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears are all the same species. No young hobgoblins or bugbears are ever born--they're all born goblins. The tribe then pours portions of their own souls into selected individuals and they mutate (reversibly for hobgoblins, not so for bugbears) into the other forms. This happens quickly (over a few weeks). The steady-state for a tribe is about 10% hobgoblins (guards, combat forces) and about 2-3% bugbears (usually only about 1 per tribe) for heavy lifting. When a tribe knows conflict is imminent, they convert larger portions of their tribe to hobgoblins and bugbears. This drains the tribe's magical and physical resources (which is why it isn't permanently maintained). Unmaintained bugbears disintegrate under the mutations necessary, unmaintained hobgoblins revert.

One other weirdness--goblin tribes share a level of subconscious understanding and their intelligence is synergistic. The more goblins of a single tribe in a small area, the more intelligent they are. A single goblin survivor is pretty stupid. This also means that goblins don't keep secrets from their tribe. They almost can't. Tell one goblin something and the rest "just know" it.

Deepbluediver

2016-11-03, 12:15 PM

The short version is that goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears are all the same species. No young hobgoblins or bugbears are ever born--they're all born goblins. The tribe then pours portions of their own souls into selected individuals and they mutate (reversibly for hobgoblins, not so for bugbears) into the other forms. This happens quickly (over a few weeks). The steady-state for a tribe is about 10% hobgoblins (guards, combat forces) and about 2-3% bugbears (usually only about 1 per tribe) for heavy lifting. When a tribe knows conflict is imminent, they convert larger portions of their tribe to hobgoblins and bugbears. This drains the tribe's magical and physical resources (which is why it isn't permanently maintained). Unmaintained bugbears disintegrate under the mutations necessary, unmaintained hobgoblins revert.
Interesting- it reminds me of ants, with individuals in specialized roles.

I have two thoughts: is there any in-game mechanism to discourage goblins from continuously gathering together in huge groups and maintaining Einstein-level intelligence?

How do you handle this if a PC wants to play a goblinoid?

PhoenixPhyre

2016-11-03, 01:04 PM

Interesting- it reminds me of ants, with individuals in specialized roles.

I have two thoughts: is there any in-game mechanism to discourage goblins from continuously gathering together in huge groups and maintaining Einstein-level intelligence?

How do you handle this if a PC wants to play a goblinoid?

Ants (and bees) were part of my inspiration. They're not totally eusocial and the caste changes are not generally permanent, but they're more protean within a species than humans or other "civilized" folk.

Due to other issues, goblinoids are not playable. Meta reason: I stick to to the PHB for races (plus aasimar for balance with tieflings). In-universe: Goblins are considered beast races and most "civilized" folk consider them nothing more than animals. They wouldn't survive in a party dealing with townsfolk. The townsfolk still blame them (and orcs) for the Cataclysm that killed something like 75% of the continent's population 200 years ago. Most townfolk have a kill-on-sight policy towards any of the beast races. They don't like half-orcs much either.

The tribal synergistic intelligence has a limited scope. It seems to cap out at about 500 people. Most tribes never get anywhere near that due to resource constraints. The land they mainly live on is not the best for farming and the tribes are mostly nomadic with a few settled farming or mining tribes. The shared mind thing also doesn't work across tribal boundaries. I haven't solidified exactly why (in universe) that is, but it is. Goblins of different tribes are as likely to be competitors as allies.

Max_Killjoy

2016-11-03, 01:16 PM

PhoenixPhyre

2016-11-03, 01:25 PM

While the humans in that setting might not understand genetics, if they know about the hive-mind, they might suspect that a half-orc or half-goblin carries with it the "taint of the evil voices" and that beast-people interbreeding with humans is part of a plot to make humans susceptible to the hive-mind.

That's a good explanation. I'm toying with the idea that goblins really represent the truest descendants of the early proto-humans. After all, they were created to serve the Primal Prince of Change and Adaptation. Regular humans are the mutants. I'm almost ready to state as fact that halflings (who have only been around for 800 years or so) are another goblinoid species that adapted too far from the root stock. They share many similarities.

Orcs are the result of genetic engineering in the past to create super-soldiers. The super-soldier part worked, the tractability...well...didn't. Dragonborn are a slightly more recent and more successful attempt along the same lines.

At this point, though, the humans have no clue about the workings of the goblin tribes. They're considered annoying rats at best, evil demons at worst. A major theme is breaking out of traditions--the masses have been huddled behind their walls for (justified) fear of the dark for 200 years and have gotten seriously stuck in their ways. Adventurers are the few souls who can't live within tradition but aren't criminal enough to be immediately executed. Instead they're soft exiled--sent to solve problems for outlying areas and (probably) die quickly. This means most humans (and elves, and dwarves, etc) haven't seen a goblin in generations. Only the frontier settlements would have, and they're too busy surviving to do much sociology.

NerdwithaPencil

2016-11-03, 04:02 PM

These are from a Pacific Northwest-Celtic Highlands fusion-type setting, and are supplemented by a few I made all by myself :3.

Elves are irascible tricksters, carnal ne'er-do-wells, thieves, rogues, demons and scoundrels. They also invented gunpowder.

Dwarves are animistic Shamans and barbarian people of the mountains.

Goblins live in the rain shadow behind the mountains. Strongly religious, they have a Pagan style of belief and a Puritan style of superiority and abrasion. Also similar fashion sense.

Gnomes are Earth spirits (it's true; Paracelsus coined the term) from the land of Fae. Given brass bodies by an artistic noble, they are a gregarious people, who encrust themselves with gems as a status symbol.

Deepbluediver

2016-11-03, 04:13 PM

Due to other issues, goblinoids are not playable.
Thanks for the response. I want goblins to be a playable race in my setting, so I'll probably stick with something a little more traditional, but I do really like the whole format. Maybe I'll apply it to some other non-playable race like Formicans or Mind Flayers.

Meta reason: I stick to to the PHB for races (plus aasimar for balance with tieflings).
Ah, ok- can I assume you aren't playing 3.5 then?

Adventurers are the few souls who can't live within tradition but aren't criminal enough to be immediately executed. Instead they're soft exiled--sent to solve problems for outlying areas and (probably) die quickly.
That's fairly similar to the explanation I used for alignments in my setting. Most races have an inclination (usually cultural) towards one part of the alignment spectrum, but the smaller and less homogeneous a group of that race you encounter the less likely they are to follow the usual stereotype. By the time you get down to a single individual it can be anything, and in fact one of the most common reasons creatures set out on an insanely dangerous life of an adventurer is that they don't get along with anyone back at home.

They don't like half-orcs much either.
That reminds- in my world I don't have half-orcs, half-elves, or half-anything, really. I'm not a fan of racial templates, either. The closest I've got is Bloodlines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm), (it's kind of amazing some times how many different ways 3.5 had to accomplish the same thing) which can crop up and fade out randomly in varying strengths across several generations. Its also something that no one really knows where they come from. It's not like "grandpa had a thing for green women" and more like "there's this weird malady that causes members of our family to occasionally have dragon-like characteristics that no one can seem to either cure or replicate and violates all laws of both nature and magic".

PhoenixPhyre

2016-11-03, 04:41 PM

Thanks for the response. I want goblins to be a playable race in my setting, so I'll probably stick with something a little more traditional, but I do really like the whole format. Maybe I'll apply it to some other non-playable race like Formicans or Mind Flayers.

Ah, ok- can I assume you aren't playing 3.5 then?

That's fairly similar to the explanation I used for alignments in my setting. Most races have an inclination (usually cultural) towards one part of the alignment spectrum, but the smaller and less homogeneous a group of that race you encounter the less likely they are to follow the usual stereotype. By the time you get down to a single individual it can be anything, and in fact one of the most common reasons creatures set out on an insanely dangerous life of an adventurer is that they don't get along with anyone back at home.

That reminds- in my world I don't have half-orcs, half-elves, or half-anything, really. I'm not a fan of racial templates, either. The closest I've got is Bloodlines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm), (it's kind of amazing some times how many different ways 3.5 had to accomplish the same thing) which can crop up and fade out randomly in varying strengths across several generations. Its also something that no one really knows where they come from. It's not like "grandpa had a thing for green women" and more like "there's this weird malady that causes members of our family to occasionally have dragon-like characteristics that no one can seem to either cure or replicate and violates all laws of both nature and magic".

Ah. no. I'm working with 5e. I did remove gnomes (all killed off in the Cataclysm) and drow (never existed) from play. If I had to make goblins playable, it would probably just be the base type (or maybe bugbears, but those have...mental issues). Playable goblins would have to be mutants who were exiled for not really having the group mind (being complete individuals).

My explanation for half-X (where the non X half is human) is that the far ancestors of humans were explicitly created as protean creatures designed to interface (diplomatically or otherwise) with anything, anywhen, anywhere. Not only that, but orcs are basically humans mutated by some serious magic about 1000 years ago, so they're more compatible than most. Some half-orcs are really 100% orcs that are genetic throwbacks to a greater or lesser degree. Half-elves...well...I guess humans find elves attractive for some reason.

Feel free to use or mutate any idea of mine you come across.

Couronne

2016-11-03, 06:25 PM

I've got...

Highly religious Gnomes who see invention as sacred and are responsible for most technological development. They mostly live in underground hives centered around a Queen who adopts a particular craft - Forge Queen, Brew Queen etc. - and gives birth to all Gnome eggs in the hive. Gnomes do have free will though and ocassionally one has a Bright Idea, breaks from the ordered structure of Gnome society and strikes off into the world to make his or her fortune with it. Thus we have the entire town of Selmire, built around a set of giant boilers designed to distill salts from the Saltmarshes rather than having to mine it. Gnomes that successfully strike out on their own often find they attract more and more Gnomes and end up as hive Queens themselves (regardless of their original gender) as Gnomish pheremones cause them to swell and start to lay eggs.

The Halflings are dour refugees who used to be forest-dwellers and aren't really comfortable sheltering in cities. They are generally regarded as a bit weird, having an affinity for insects and shadows. The reason they fled their homeland was due to an insect breeding experiment gone wrong, resulting in massive swarms of Jewel Wasps overruning their forest homeland.

Barbarian, shamanistic, nomadic Elves live in the uplands, travelling with their Yak herds. Elves used to be the foremost civilisation until too many of them joined a power cult and transformed themselves into Orcs (a natural transformation which occurs in any Elf who succumbs to bloodlust), causing a civil war between the Elves and Orcs. That allowed Humans to move in, invade Elven lands and enslave many Elves. Those who escaped opted for peaceful naturalistic existence on the margins so as to avoid the potential for intraspecies rifts.

The Orcs that escaped tried the same approach, but part of their transformation was the development of a weak Orc hivemind. This causes problems when the bloodlust descends on one of them as it tends to spread out among those nearby and take hold of entire tribes. That's when the rampaging happens. They are trying to find a cure and many of them have formed monastic orders with the focus of trying to keep calm control of their minds.

Dragonborn grow from the shed scales of Dragons and are bound to the Dragon that birthed them. When their Dragon dies, they becomes free-willed and seek to find a new purpose. This can make them very naive, suddenly thrust into a world they don't really understand.

Humans are very militaristic and highly disciplined. They love order and heirarchies, tend to be xenophobic and have enslaved both Elves and Orcs (and are on the verge of enslaving the Halfling refugees too, though there are the beginnings of dissent following a successful Elven slave rebellion in the southern valleys of their kingdom).

Seafaring, happy-go-lucky Dwarves - think How To Tame Your Dragon, only shorter and a bit more mercantile (basically in charge of most sea trade). An offshoot of Humans who evolved to become shorter and more hairy as a response to the highly windy coastal environments they inhabited.

Tieflings are the fallout from a war between Gods. They were once humans who happened to colonise an area where the ground was suffused with the blood of a defeated God of power and domination. The contamination seeped into their food and caused the former humans to mutate into the likeness of the defeated God (now trapped in the centre of the world). They are particularly susceptible to prophecy and produce talented seers as a result of their connection to the "divine".

Finally, Paragons are beings of potentially immense power that serve as Gods of the world. They coalesce when there is enough similar belief and worship to bring them into being and go into cocoons if the belief sustaining them wanes. Mortals can ascend to Paragonhood by becoming the focus of belief and worship or by consuming the soul of an existing Paragon. Each Paragon is molded by the beliefs of its worshippers, taking on the form, personality and powers its worshippers expect of it. Problems occur when a world develops to the point that there are too many Paragons competing for worshippers with similar beliefs.

tantric

2016-11-03, 06:33 PM

Faeries - there are only three metals on this world, aurium, argentium and adamantium/gold, silver and iron. these are linked to the three clades of faeries - seelie, aseelie and unseelie. seelie faeries are herbivores. unseelies are carnivores, aseelies are insectivores and piscivores. hmm - some examples, from the elves.

seelie elves: naelathe (wood elves), gralathar (wild elves), hse'eliae (desert/sun elves)
aseelie elves: elathe (high/bird elves), alathe (sea elves), nia'aklu (snow elves)
unseelie elves: damethear (drow), fusuliashi (savage elves), astsantse (ice elves/mythos)

major faerie subgroups: elves, of course. the second tier is satyrs and dryads. satyrs represent male sexual archetypes - elands are antelope satyrs and knights in shining armor, korrupts are moose satyrs and rapists. dryads are linked to their hometrees. next are the littlepeople - faeries based on arthropods, amphibians and small mammals.

littlepeople:

sprites=dragonflies, aseelie; pixies=bees, seelie; grigs are orthopterids. Grylls are unseelie crickets, tettigons are aseelie katydids, acridides are seelie grasshoppers, etc......

amphibians: peepers - treefrog seelie, nixies real frog aseelies, toads unseelies, and newts and efts
mammals: brownies are mice faeries, earthlings are mole faeries and quicklings are shrew faeries

oh, hell...here's the PDF in GURPS... LittlePeoplePDF (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1v8aliGcWP-ZlNoazVORUkzYm8)

SatyrsPDF (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1v8aliGcWP-MG0xWENRZ1pYbVE)

Carl

2016-11-03, 08:59 PM

Interesting, so you've got each of the little people is basically a humanoid/insect/amphibian/e.t.c. hybrid? Hmmm, curious at everyone whilst this is more of a question, since someone threw an idea into the pot a while back i've gotten so far with my own fey concept and kinda hit a stumbling block in that i'm really not able to find clear info on a wide enough variety of fey subtypes. I've got gnomes, satyr's, (and at least two subtypes of that i need to work on names for), and Dragons all sorted out, Elves aren't part of the fey at all and i want to restrict it to lesser fey that are roughly gnome or smaller sized. Unfortunately i'm having a devil of a time digging up a significant number of types, especially since goblins are part of somthing else entirely. Anyone a bit of a fey expert? Doesn't have to be D&D specific ethier.

ArlEammon

2016-11-03, 09:16 PM

Dwarves

Dwarves are a mercenary race. It was another person's idea that they be like Irish folk in Tears of Blood, but I thought up the idea of mercenaries for a race.

tantric

2016-11-03, 11:00 PM

Carl

2016-11-04, 08:34 AM

you're asking for names for fey? did you look at my PDF? if you run out of european fey, there's always japan...YokaiPDF

More physiological types. Thats why i found the whole fey as insects so interesting. It doesn't really fit where i've gone with mine, (i can fill in the details on that if you want), but it's been damnably hard to find any info on any forms of fey that go beyond a name. Hence why i've been stymied up till now.

Pronounceable

2016-11-04, 09:01 PM

The tribe then pours portions of their own souls into selected individuals and they mutate (reversibly for hobgoblins, not so for bugbears) into the other forms.
Boo. And here I was thinking goblins dumb horny teens, hobs mature adults and buggs the evergrowing elderly was being very creative. ;_;

Clearly, I need to get up earlier in the morning to catch up.

prufock

2016-11-12, 07:32 AM

I drew some inspiration from the Worthing Saga by Orson Scott Card for my elves. They age at the same rate as humans, normally, but are able to enter something called "tree sleep," a kind of stasis in which they merge with a special magical tree. In tree sleep, they do not age, thus they have effectively long lives. Tree sleep is both spiritually and practically important for the elves, as it allows them to see through long-term plans.

Within tree sleep, they enter a state of lucid dreaming automatically, during which they can work on their art, inventions, magic, political plans, and so on. There are a limited number of trees which can be used for tree sleep, therefore it is awarded by the leaders for merit. In this way, they encourage the progress of their culture. Most elves receive very little of this reward, but those who show promise in their endeavors may be rewarded years, decades, even centuries at a time.

It is because of this tree sleep that elves need not sleep in their outside lives, only trance. It also explains the need of elves to protect their forests, since the magical trees appear no different than any other tree. There is no way to predict which trees will grow to be sleep trees; they can only hope to expand their forest and grow more.

Prince Zahn

2016-11-26, 01:24 PM

Goblins are pitiful, mean little buggers, everyone knows that.

-In my more standard D&D settings (Which I call Trunia to distinguish it), Goblins are a playable race (not saying Goblinoids because I so rarely need other goblinoids.).
there are typically two types of goblins:
the goblins everyone knows about are pitiful servants and slaves affordable to the common man. their mischievous, malevolent nature has been mostly tamed out of them through the generations, which has been replaced with self-loathing, obedience, and greater endurance, (especially becausew (Although there are better servants out there if you need someone to do any heavy lifting).
And then there are the Goblinites, which are feral, wild goblins. sentient but incapable of coherent speech (Or at least speak their own language), they are a lot craftier, and malevolent. they are certainly not nearly as pathetic as their domesticated counterparts. they fight with stealth naturally, and hunt typically by leaping out of trees and shrubbery with sharp rocks. they know that with humanoids, their best bet is to go for weak spots - back, eyeballs, open wounds, "family jewels". they also have a rudimentary understanding of armor, enough to know to seek out "chinks in armor" before going for the kill. they often hunt solo, and rather cowardly when overwhelmed, but they never forget defeat - if you harm one, it will come back and hunt you down with it's whole pack. did I forget to mention my small Goblinites also have natural weapons (and multiattack in 5e) and have significantly better attack and damage output than a generic Monster Manual goblin?

Trunian Gnomes are very similar to what they are known to be: suave, fancy, confident, alongside creative, mischievous and quirky. they are often smiling and sometimes a little annoying, but people know better than to mess with them. nothing bad happens when a gnome is happy. but according to superstition, bad luck follows ye who upsets a gnome.
In secret, Gnomes created such superstitions and take pride in them, secrets and superstition keep other races at bay. there's a massive, top secret crime ring beneath the luxury, which Gnomes are born into.

The fanciest spin I've had on dwarves was that they were extinct. they used to be a mighty empire, hell-bent on world domination, they almost succeeded, but their empire has shattered because of their refusal to advance with technology and magic, and, once liberated, the rest of the world persecuted them to extinction, along with their impeccable craftsmanship, culture and exquisite beardwork. today, only relics, ruins, and the elves who lived to witness the Dwarven horror remain to tell of the once proud and unbreakable Dwarven kingdom. there is also an international holiday in some nations that celebrates the dwarves' defeat. in this holiday, there is a great festival, where it's customary for people (of both sexes) to wear fake beards, drink lots of ale, carve miniature instruments from stone, and pick on the short and stout. it sounds cruel, yes, but many a halfling are paid handsomely during this festival to wear caricatured dwarf costumes and take punches from the merry locals.

Deepbluediver

2016-11-26, 08:01 PM

I find this dismissal somewhat misaimed on the basis that more often than not, players don't give half a whit about any aspect of the game world that differs from their preconceptions anyway, unless it applies directly to their murderhoboing. If we insist that cultural aspects in a game world are relevant only in how they interact with the players, we can probably toss out most aspects of culture.

Because unless the players are very RP-heavy, they usually do't care at all. And if they ARE the RP-heavy sort that really want to immerse themselves in a world very different from their own, asking western players to acknowledge a third (or fourth or fifth) gender with accompanying social dynamics IS an interesting and relevant addition.
This is an old comment that I think the missed the first time around, but I wanted to reply anyhow.
RP is important to me as GM, because that's what I have fun with. When I'm a player in D&D games, I'm big on the roleplaying- I've always had fun inventing elaborate backstories and trying to keep things "in-character", and that carries over to my GM-style. When I'm building a world or story or mission or whatever, the mechanics are the work and the lore (or fluff) is the fun part. Because GMing is still supposed to be fun. To this day I've yet to personally meet someone who earned a salary based on the games they run.
So, I consider lore, and fluff, and racial culture, and everything else to be important because I want it to be there. If the players find it immersive or benfit and/or suffer from their empathy/lack-of-cultural-awareness, then that's even better, and maybe someday I'll meet someone who is as into the RP parts of the game as I am, but until then the only person who it's really crucial to is me.

The fanciest spin I've had on dwarves was that they were extinct. they used to be a mighty empire, hell-bent on world domination, they almost succeeded, but their empire has shattered because of their refusal to advance with technology and magic, and, once liberated, the rest of the world persecuted them to extinction, along with their impeccable craftsmanship, culture and exquisite beardwork. today, only relics, ruins, and the elves who lived to witness the Dwarven horror remain to tell of the once proud and unbreakable Dwarven kingdom. there is also an international holiday in some nations that celebrates the dwarves' defeat. in this holiday, there is a great festival, where it's customary for people (of both sexes) to wear fake beards, drink lots of ale, carve miniature instruments from stone, and pick on the short and stout. it sounds cruel, yes, but many a halfling are paid handsomely during this festival to wear caricatured dwarf costumes and take punches from the merry locals.
I was mostly focused on making a standard variety of easily playable races that would quickly be recognizable to most people, even if they had never played D&D before (so avoiding things like Tieflings, Githyanki, Firbolgs, etc) and I never really considered having one of the fantasy staples go extinct, or how it might affect the setting. This is actually really cool though, IMO. The closest I've got are the Warforged- in setting no one really know what exactly they are, except that they are rare and sort-of immortal.

In terms of meta-knowledge their backstory is based on something that came up in another, totally unrelated thread. The warforged are the product of an ancient race's (not sure exactly which one) attempt to become immortal. The failed, effectively. Either the soul-transference is so traumatic that the new entity doesn't retain any memory of it's old life, in which case what is the point? Or...rather than achieving immortality, this ancient, forgotten civilization succeeded in creating a new kind of life, treading on the boundaries of the divine. Both explanations are equally likely, which brings me to another point- IMO, ambiguity is good. My players don't know every single facet of my world, and neither do I. There are always going to be some questions that are just unanswerable, and the fact that lost cultures, civilizations, and even races are a thing (and took many secrets to the grave with them) is an important aspect of world-building.

BladeofObliviom

2016-11-26, 09:38 PM

This is an old comment that I think the missed the first time around, but I wanted to reply anyhow.
RP is important to me as GM, because that's what I have fun with. When I'm a player in D&D games, I'm big on the roleplaying- I've always had fun inventing elaborate backstories and trying to keep things "in-character", and that carries over to my GM-style. When I'm building a world or story or mission or whatever, the mechanics are the work and the lore (or fluff) is the fun part. Because GMing is still supposed to be fun. To this day I've yet to personally meet someone who earned a salary based on the games they run.
So, I consider lore, and fluff, and racial culture, and everything else to be important because I want it to be there. If the players find it immersive or benfit and/or suffer from their empathy/lack-of-cultural-awareness, then that's even better, and maybe someday I'll meet someone who is as into the RP parts of the game as I am, but until then the only person who it's really crucial to is me.

For the record, I agree with everything you're saying here. I don't think it's incompatible with what I was saying in the quote, though.

(I have no desire to restart that argument again, though.)

Prince Zahn

2016-11-27, 02:02 PM

I was mostly focused on making a standard variety of easily playable races that would quickly be recognizable to most people, even if they had never played D&D before (so avoiding things like Tieflings, Githyanki, Firbolgs, etc) and I never really considered having one of the fantasy staples go extinct, or how it might affect the setting. This is actually really cool though, IMO. The closest I've got are the Warforged- in setting no one really know what exactly they are, except that they are rare and sort-of immortal.

Speaking from experience, you will need to make sure that is clear to all your players throughout all stages of character creation. For players, it is VERY easy to take the standard races for granted. So if players have a hankering for your extinct race, it's better to break it to them sooner rather than later.

Deepbluediver

2016-11-27, 05:17 PM

Speaking from experience, you will need to make sure that is clear to all your players throughout all stages of character creation. For players, it is VERY easy to take the standard races for granted. So if players have a hankering for your extinct race, it's better to break it to them sooner rather than later.
Yeah, I definitely understand that- like I said I was trying to design a system where someone who HADN'T played D&D before would recognize at least a good chunk of them. When I was designing my own setting balance was also important to me, so I kind of worked mechanics and fluff in together.

My standard racial stat-bonus scheme follows the +2 to two and -2 to one model, but I really wanted to diversify more than most of what's in 3.5. Which, in essence, is a whole heap of savage or monstrous races that get bonuses to physical stats and penalties to mental ones. Sure there are exceptions, but that one-line description would probably cover about 80+% of things, and most of what it doesn't cover has really huge LA or something like that.

So I made 15 races, each one with one of the 15 different +2 stats combinations, and then I also have humans, warforged, and changelings. Some of the races are pretty standard, others I revised their culture from the ground up based on what stat-boosts they had, or vice-versa for a few of them.

Humans
Elves
Dwarves
Gnomes
Halfings
Alakachians (new race, bird people essentially)
Orcs
Goblins
Gnolls
Lizardfolk
Yuan-ti
Kobolds
Rakshasa
Tauren (minotaurs)
Loxodons
Ogres
Warforged
Changelings

Also for balance, everyone uses ability-arrays during character creation, with two exceptions- the Warforged and the Changelings. Warforged use point-buy and Changelings roll for stats. It's certainly not the most conventional system, but I like the interactions it makes and how it starts meshing rollplay and roleplay right out of the gate.

tantric

2016-11-28, 02:17 PM

african/bantu style ogres as a pc race

The WaZimwi - Ogres

waZimwi have jet black skin, curly or kinky black hair, which is usually in dreadlocks, red eyes and protruding lower canines. Males are 3m tall, females around 2.75, both sexes dense with muscle. waZimwi traditionally practice ritual scarification, adding lines and chevrons on their cheeks and whorls on their foreheads. They are not as ugly as standard fantasy Ogres - their features are regular and they lack body hair, but they do have a distinct musky odor (the pheromones of young Ogresses can have a powerful effect on human males). Ogre-maidens are sometimes even beautiful by human standards, but the two races seem to be infertile. Their culture is deeply matriarchal and they are practitioners of polyandry, males being born in a 2 to 1 ratio with females.

The waZimwi have their own villages in the hinterlands of Ubantu, often magically hidden. These villages are ruled by ancient Hags with powerful magic. These Hags gain power from eating Humans and other sapients - they are very fond of elephants. The Ogre Hags are wise and foresightful. They have no intention of being left behind or crushed by advancing civilization. There are long established waZimwi families in all of the large cities throughout the Empire, where the males serve as prestige bodyguards and caravan escorts. Young females, while still beautiful, are highly paid dancers.

As a race, Ogres find humans annoying but at least honorable, as they have kept their word following the War without Hope. And though humans tend to lump Ogres together with the amaZimu races, it isn't wise to do so within earshot of an Ogre. They hate the shapeshifters with a passion, especially the waSimba. Ogre mythology is full of tales of clever Ogres turn the pride of the waSimba against them. Ogres hate Hyenas just as much as humans do. Whereas some humans have made people with the waNgwena, Ogres regard them and Leopards with superstitious dread. WaMhenga are the exceptions, often living in Ogre villages and serving a traditional support role for the village chieftainess.

Player character waZimwi are usually waZimwi wabantu, civilized Ogres who live in the cities of Milikyunjovu. The major city-states (sehemu) are about 1% Waziwmi. Civilized Ogres are just that: civilized. They are well-spoken, immaculately clean and polite, and even courteous and respectful. They are known to sometimes eat people, but never at random. Their anthropophagous urges are satisfied by condemned criminals, and it has been found that the threat of being eaten alive by Ogres is a powerful deterrent. WaZimwi rarely lie, cheat or steal. They are not, in short, openly dangerous. On the other hand, one doesn't cheat an Ogre, and trying to steal from them is recklessly insane. WaZimwi are not interested in human justice - people who die from poison trials are foul tasting, and anyone stupid enough to wrong an Ogre gets what they deserve. Ogres are also fond of gambling with humans, and if at the end of the game the human can't pay up, the Ogre will cheerfully take an arm or leg.

WaZimwi are genetically predisposed to find human flesh extremely tasty. It can easily become an addiction for them. Other than humans, they prefer to eat the meat of carnivores and omnivores. They don't like beef at all, but accept sheep and goat. They prefer to eat dogs in cities. Other than meat, they traditionally cook insanely spiced potgreens and mealie-bread. Fruits are eaten with peels, including types that make humans sick.

Male waZimwi who somehow get lost or isolated go feral, turning into wandering monsters that terrorize the countryside until they are hunted down. Some are born as Atavisms - these mutants are even larger than regular mZimwi and are forced to knucklewalk.

Ogre social structure is based around alliances of related alpha females. Three, five or seven sisters or first cousins rule a given community. Individual females have one to three husbands, which are not related, though preferably their brothers are married to the other alpha females.

Backbush Ogres lives in villages ruled by their hags. Humans are usually wary of their villages, probably moreso than need be. There are several stories of lost children and panicked parents finding them playing peacefully with the Ogres. This is *not* because Ogres don't eat people - they do, with relish, but because the hags know that eating a child would be suicide. On the other hand, human malcontents and thieves living near Ogres have a tendency to vanish without a trace.

[SIDEBAR]
Blackdog Mbwakoko - Ogre Rogue and aspirant Secret Police Agent

Blackdog's names means "Dog - Burnt Black", which is his favorite food. He spent the first ten years of his life in the Backbush, with "real" Ogres. His mother is a powerful Ogre Hag, deeply immersed in evil and witchcraft. He was a rebellious child, too small, too smart for his own good and often beaten senseless. At 10 years old, his mother got tired of him and sent him to be raised by her cousin in Ameruji.

Blackdog loves civilization, and took to it like a fish to water. He learned to read kiKoka, then educated himself, attracting some attention from the Zimbanje scholars that run the university in Ameruji. There he met his best friend, Jomu, who is a Ogre-phile. Blackdog taught Jumo to be fluent in kiZimwi, which he rarely speaks these days elsewhere. He supports himself working as a crash test dummy for a company that makes magical staffs, and dreams of being an guild mage himself. All waZimwi learn to fight. Blackdog can use a spear and an ogre-sword (serrated on one side). He's fairly skilled, compensating for his lack of strength and size.

Unfortunately, his youthful freedom has come to an end. His mother sent his two older brother to fetch him home, to get married, and they have no intention of disappointing Mother. He has three days to pack, watched every minute, then it's home sweet home.

The day after he got the bad news, he was contacted by the Secret Police, who managed, to his amazement, to get him to a clandestine meeting. They offered him a deal worthy of an Ogre - no options. The SP will throw his brothers off the track (which Jomu can help with), but he has to deal with his "family business" before he can be recruited. They offered him a bushguide (AKA spy), with the possibility of later reinforcement. He must leave tomorrow, with Jomu and the guide, or be handed back to his brothers.

Lleban

2016-11-28, 08:39 PM

I like your interpretation of ogres, it gives them a lot more dept than i usually see from that race.

tantric

2016-11-29, 01:12 PM

I like your interpretation of ogres, it gives them a lot more dept than i usually see from that race.

asante sana, ndugu (thank you very much, comrade)

if you're curious, i got my inspiration from a wonderful book, Myths and Legends of the Bantu, which is online at sacred-texts. the chapter on ogres and monsters is here: M&LotB: Amazimu (http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/mlb/mlb14.htm)

and so encouraged, i'll add one more. in bantu tradition, baboons are considered people - sentients all their own. the !kung (not bantu, bushmen) call them 'the people who sit on their heels'. so, of course, i made a sentient baboon player race, based on mandrills. when i put my setting up for review, i was told that having any kind of talking primate in a setting about africa was racist......i replied that humans are talking primates, and it got ugly. shrug.

http://justfunfacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/mandrill-colors.jpg

"!Tsharg/hauim//goab" is a Tsan phrase meaning "the people who sit on their heels". ["!" represents a sound like "pop!", "/" is a side-of-the-mouth click]. They call themselves "the people" using sounds unpronounceable for humans. On Earth, the various Bushman peoples have always accredited baboons with full intelligence, as have many other cultures.

!Tsharg faces are mandrill-like, including the bright colors and their noses extend out to a muzzle. The median of the nose and the flaring nostrils are red, the sides of the nose and ridged hairless portion of the cheeks range from blue to violet, changing rapidly but subtlety. Whereas mandrills have brightly colored fur on their rumps, the upright !Tsharg have this on their shoulders. Colors range from blue to purple to scarlet. Only respected individuals and elders show these colors and they never develop in slave !Tsharg.

Despite appearances, they are not actually especially closely related to baboons, being in fact a member of a line of primates that gave rise to several species unique to Ubantu, including the Aigamuxa and the Ikimizi. An adult !Tsharg stands 140cm and weighs 45kg. They have a short tail, used only for balance and expression. !Tsharg are semi-upright in posture. Children walk on all fours until they are four or five years old. Adults walk short distances upright but run on all fours, especially if the terrain is difficult. They are adept at scansorial locomotion - jumping from rock to rock, typically. They reach sexual maturity at 9 years and rarely live past 40 outside of the Empire, but in the few cases where it has been tried, modern geriatrics have extended the maximum lifespan to 60.

There are four distinct !Tsharg cultures in Ubantu: the Southern !Tsharg of the Xangu, the Northern !Tsharg of Jangwa desert, the Vitwana slaves of the Empire and the wa!Shang of Uchomba.

!Tsharg dietary preferences often disgust humans. In particular, the like freshly killed small rodents, which are eaten as is. Disgusting as it may be, !Tsharg rat-traps have basically spared the Imperial cities from plague, and the Uchomba ships are always rodent-free. Other than rats and reptiles they are not fond of meat, especially cooked meat. They love eggs.

Natural !Tsharg languages are very different from human languages. The first barrier is phonemics - !Tsharg languages have several sounds humans can't reproduce and vice versa. The !Tsharg vocal apparatus doesn't do /b/, /p/, /v/, /m/, or /f/. Sibilants (s, z, sh, etc), nasals (n, ng), some stops (g, k) and dentals (d, t) are shared, but there is an entire class of consonants in !Tsharg languages not found in human speech. !Tsharg languages usually have very few vowels - one dialect has only two, but may have up to four vowel lengths. !Tsharg also uses a wide variety of clicks, up to 10 in some dialects. Humans can approximate these, but only !Xun Pygmies can do it well. !Tsharg languages also use tones suited to their acute hearing, up to twenty-four different tones, and in addition use volume accents, meaning the relative difference in volume from one syllable to the next. The latter concept is alien to waBantu and Pygmies alike. In the "high" version of a typical !Tsharg language, speakers are face to face and there is an additional level of body language that goes far beyond the kind used by humans. When speaking in high form, the !Tsharg's face is intensely animated with twitches and subtle movements, along with head movements and body posturings. The upside of this is speed: !Tsharg language conveys large amounts of information is a very short amount of time. The downside is that it is difficult or impossible to encode in written language. Zimbanje scholars in Uchomba have developed a few preliminary versions of the ki!Shang language used there, but there is no standard, and few !Tsharg ever master any form of literacy. There is a simple fetish (Kinakulu cha Matambuzi, $10) which allows !Tsharg to correctly pronounce Human languages.

All !Tsharg have a remarkable gift when it comes to understanding the natural world. Similar to the way that human brains automatically look for patterns, !Tsharg notice details about nature.!Tsharg living in an area will always have exact names for each and every species of plant and animal, even insects, and these names will be universal throughout the community. This is not instinctual knowledge - the ability serves them just as well in the rainforests of the Empire as in their desert homelands. Natural !Tsharg languages contain huge numbers of words for all of the species in their environment, though tellingly they do not have separate words for parts of living things. An acorn is "oak-seed" - the idea of having a word for a seed and not knowing what it will grow into is inconceivable. The first !Tsharg admitted to the Zimbanje Society was a naturalist who drew detailed pictures of his subjects, then arranged them according to likeness. YellowMaskMoth has since been promoted to sagedom, despite not having personally written a single word, and his work eventually resulted in the Ubantu version of Linnean classifications. !Tsharg ethnomedicine is vastly superior to that of humans and specifically involves insects and their secretions. !Tsharg almost innately understand germ theory and have long standing treatments and cures for every disease they encounter.

As an outgrowth of their awareness of nature, !Tsharg have a rudimentary ability to speak with plants spirits, which can be improved normally and an inborn empathy with mijengi and mikwoga (Earth and Wood) spirits.

In Milikyunjovu, !Tsharg are a brutally oppressed slave race. They are the "viTwana" - a noun class usually reserved for things. They were once more integrated into Ukoka society, but slave rebellions and their repercussions have ended this. Now most viTwana work on plantations, in the galleys that ply the rivers and in the mines. Ratcatchers are still allowed in the cities, as are personal slaves of the wealthy. There is a dumbed down slave language, kiTwana , which is a version of kiKoka stripped of conjugations and agglutinations and phonetically simplified, though most learn to understand real kiKoka. Most slaves have completely lost their heritage, and no longer speak any form of !Tsharg, though the do use that name for their people. The Elephants of the Empire dislike the cruelty of slavery, but they believe in slow changes. As such, the Empire has a long range plan to phase it out, based on improvements in technology. Free !Tsharg in the Empire develop the brightly colored manes typical of leaders in other !Tsharg cultures, slaves never do.

!Tsharg were first brought to the empire around 600Ks, through a pass in the Katigongo range near the mining town of Iringu. At that point they were more like pets than slaves, often tagging along with even assisting reagent collectors. Many were abandoned or just got lost in Iringu, and there were soon found to be capable miners who will work for food (most waBantu hate going underground). WaNewara, who make up the majority of Iringu's citizens, are religiously conservative and fairly adamant that only humans have souls. Nevertheless, the slave trade was a minor thing until the first plantation farms around 700Ks. Cotton, corn and sorghum molasses had long been Newara's only agricultural exports, but farming them is labor intensive. Plantation labor made backwards Newara rich and gave rise to a new form of aristocrat. The practice soon spread to Mbolu. Iringu became a boom town, with typical rise in crime and immorality. Around the same time, the remaining Southern !Tsharg become violently anti-human, endangering not only the slaving industry, but all Xangu reagent collection. In 850 Ugombwe and the Kamau Cult declared slave raiding illegal, partially in effort to slow change in their own culture. Though first !Tsharg slaves would have children only under fairly comfortable circumstances, it was soon found that they were especially susceptible to human fertility medicines. Although humans are often enslaved as punishment for various crimes, their children are not born as slaves, which is not the case with !Tsharg slaves.

Vitwana wear iron torcs which can only be removed by their ownerShortly after birth they are fitted with leather collars, graduating to iron at adulthood.

ViTwana retain the custom of using names based on animals and plants, with names such as GreenCottonWorm and BitterThreeStemGrass. Their slave names are then simply less specific versions - Worm and Grass.

Wa!Tsharg, as freed slaves are known, wear copper collars and/or manacles. This is not legally mandated, but socially it is nearly required. WaKoka are rarely antagonistically racist - perhaps an affect of living with Ogres. Oppression is reserved for slaves - etiquette requires that free beings be treated respectfully. The Empire, which has reason to want free !Tsharg acculturated, aids this by allowing Trade Societies to not count waTsharg in their rolls for taxation purposes. Full Society membership, rather than just gainful employment, usually requires literacy, putting a de facto glass ceiling on waTsarg accomplishments. The abolitionist society also seeks to employ !Tsharg, especially since it has been deemed illegal to free then abandon a slave of any race. Nevertheless, there are 1000 viTwana for every mTsharg (not counting the Wa!Shang in Uchomba).

The most visible group of waTsharg are the rat catchers in urban areas. WaKoka consider all vermin unclean, whereas !Tsharg consider many of them tasty. This led to a happy business arrangement. Wage slavery soon proved more profitable than outright slavery in this situation. Vermin catching is just too taboo for the waKoka to base a trade society on, thus allowing some of the patient waTsharg to eventually gain complete control of the business. Ratcatchers wear a distinctive uniform rather than copper collar and are strictly politically neutral. They do nothing to protest chattel slavery but probably represent the greatest threat to the custom - they demonstrate that slave drivers are superfluous. As there is no Rat Catcher's Society, the situation is different in every city. Humans may be absentee business owners, scribes, accountants and/or representatives. Many of these are die hard abolitionists whose ideology has overcome their horror of being associated with vermin.

WaTsharg universally practice Kidini, though only superficially. They have no clans and thus no ossuaries or cemetaries and furthermore retain the slaver given practice of cremation. They are immune to the negative effects of taboos, but this is largely compensated for by their aversion to bad and evil magic. The geneologists of the Kanisa faithful record the family trees of waTsharg, though very few are literate. The rat catchers are responsible for the inclusion of She-who-incubated-the-world-egg in the Primaverse, although she is utterly fictitious and unknown to the original Xanga !Tsharg. The Ugombwe of Newara does NOT accept this.

In the earlier days of the slave trade, !Tsharg were used as galley slaves on the riverboats of the Empire. This quickly brought them in contact with the waChomba. One of the tenants of the True Tide religion is, 'No one shal be born a slave'. All !Tsharg living in the Uchomba Confederacy are free and full citizens. This produces a LOT of tension between the various nations, particularly concerning the city-states on the mainland. The Empire's policy of non-interference helps, but individual slave owners and slave hunters sometimes have to be returned to the Empire in chains. In Uchomba they are valued citizens, and have recently founded a island colony of their own. They have developed a new language, shared by humans but enriched with !Tsharg concepts. Originating in the Kitwana slave language, the Uchomba !Tsharg have added some of the features that come naturally to them, but in a way humans can share. The resulting pidgin, Ki!shang, uses three tones, two clicks, vowel lengths and very basic body language. Ki!shang is faddishly popular throughout the Confederacy, even spoken from one human to another. It has a uniqueness that appeals to the wachomba, along with a sense of cultural identity, and, as a bonus, it annoys the uppity Imperial citizens. Wa!Shang practice the Majisafi religion as universally as the waTsharg do Kidini, but wa!Shang are true believers with an integral role in the religion.

The !Tsharg system of sexuality and mating is complex and subtle. Females become fertile in response to hormonal and environment cues, not the least of which is feeling loved and well fed. Both males and females have several bonded mates - part of being safe is having several male suitors. Consider: Dune-Swallowtail's (Southern !Tsharg are given species specific names of animals and plants) first wife is Tree-Aloe, who has a second husband, Wedge-Snouted-Sand-Lizard. Dune-Swallowtail's second wife, Tractrac-Chat, has no relationship with Wedge-Snouted-Sand-Lizard's second wife, Gerbil. The system of kinship terms is baffling. Males gain status both by hunting and by caring for children.

Southern !Tsharg are native to the Xang/a desert, especially the mountains bordering it. Northern !Tsharg live in the mountains surrounding the Jangwa desert. Both groups have a similar material culture, but their living culture is profoundly different. Their cities are based on water supplies - usually mountain springs. Their culture is roughly paleolithic. They make stone and bone tools, fire pottery and work leather and plant materials. They build warrens with walls of mud-mortared stones (the desert sun with will quickly bake mud into concrete) with detachable roofs of hide. Every spring and pool in the Xang/a foothills and oasis in the Jangwa desert will have these walls, in better or worse repair, and the !Tsharg just leave them behind if they are forced to migrate. !Tsharg are extremely adept at building traps. Their villages are protected by falling stones, pits and other defenses. !Tsharg hunters seek prey in the mountains, especially mountain zebras; there are almost no large animals in the desert. Gatherers, usually bands of women, trek into the deep desert in search of succulents and edible reptiles and arthropods. Simple horticultural plots are situated around the villages, fertilized with dried feces and hand watered, water supplies permitting. !Tsharg trade between their groups and with the Tsan who live to the west.

Xang/a !Tsharg religion is very different from human religion. They seem to have no need to anthropomorphize or explain natural phenomena, nor do they have creation myths or any concept of an after life. Their oral mythology is very fluid and abstract, but elaborate and beautiful. The figures of their gods appear in their dreams, and they tell these dreams to each other, searching for meaning. Those who often dream of a specific god will take on his characteristics and develop idiosyncratic powers, but they are more avatars than priests. Some of the more common gods include: Clever-trick-played-on-an-ostrich-so-that-another-may-steal-an-egg (trickster, can make "eggbombs"), Great-moth-of-the-moon-circling-a-campfire (death and sacrifice), Echo-of-a-leopard's-growl-on-an-errant-night-breeze (bad magic, ill omens), Fat-ugly-green-woman-who-stinks-in-a-good-way (herbal healing), Tiny-scorpion-whose-vemon-kills-the-mountain-zebra (hunting and poisons), Bitter-tasting-beetle-who-braves-the-midday-desert (strength and endurance), Black-eyes-of-the-serpent-hidden-under-a-rock (fear), All-knowing-honeyguide-keeper-of-secrets (bounty and mystery), Fragment-of-the-sun-burning-through-the-night (fire), Mongoose-faster-than-a-striking-viper (snake killer), Snare-string-that-never-breaks (traps and snares).

Xang/a !Tsharg gods begin as ordinary !Tsharg. DuneCricket is a great dreamer. One night he has an idea dream. He takes the paints used on pottery, mixes them with ostrich egg, and goes and paints a dream on a cave wall. Those who see it call it Dream-colors-staining-the-cave-wall, and in those colors (which look something like an elaborate de Kooning painting) they see a story of Clever-trick-played-on-an-ostrich-so-that-another-may-steal-an-egg . DuneCricket is now a new god - he must travel to the other !Tsharg settlements, for soon people will be seeing him in their dreams, and explain the new way of things.

Sample Names: Dune-Lark, Head-Standing-Beetle, Bat-Eared-Fox, Dune-Mole-Rat, Wing-Gland-Bat, Long-Eared-Bat, Mustard-Tree, Moringo, Sand-Runner-Ostrich, Spotted-Ostrich