[3.5] Survivor Prestige Class

[Thurbane]

So, is the Survivor prestige class actually any good for anything?

Pretty much everything it grants can be gained in dips into base classes that offer better abilities.

I know it's probably designed as a "monster" PrC, but any monster that would benefit from it would probably be better served with 5 levels of Cleric, or advancing it's RHD to increase it's CR by 5.

The only vaguely noteworthy feature is it's capstone of DR 5/-, which stacks with any similar DR.

I'm struggling to understand the point of this PrC, other than early entry by Commoners just for giggles...

Cheers - T

[Zanos]

It has no BAB progression, which is kinda interesting.

[SangoProduction]

No. It is pointless.

[Inevitability]

No. It is pointless.

Nothing is 'pointless'. One of the things I love about 3.5 is that no matter how weak, anything can be optimized and made to work as a viable charater.

If you don't believe me, check the Iron Chef threads.

[Darrin]

Nothing is 'pointless'. One of the things I love about 3.5 is that no matter how weak, anything can be optimized and made to work as a viable charater.

If you don't believe me, check the Iron Chef threads.

There's at least one Iron Chef entry that used Survivor:

Nataksukan (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18314175&postcount=110) took the silver in Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXII).

[Twurps]

I've never used survivor myself, but in it's defence:
If '5 levels of cleric nets you more power' is the benchmark, then a good many PrC's are utterly useless. (Anything not advancing casting, basically)

[thorr-kan]

Um...let's try...Commoner Sorcerer/Wizard Wannabe.

Halruaan Commoner 1/Survivor 5, or "Yer A Wizard, 'arry"

Requires Int 14, higher is better; flaws

1 - Magical Training (Player's Guide to Faerun) - 1st level only, regional feat for Halruaa (FR); grants 3 0-level spells, a spellbook, and caster level 1.
1 - Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane) - 1st level only, caster level 1; grants 1 2nd-level spell; choose Scorching Ray or Melf's Acid Arrow.
1 - Reserve Feat (Complete Mage) - spell of 2nd level or higher; choose the acid or flame one, AFB right now.
1 - Keeper of Forbidden Knowledge (FC1) - Int 14; grants Spellcraft and Knowledge (the planes) as class skills

Dump skills into Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana).

3 - Practiced Spellcaster - Spellcraft 4; you now have caster level 3 and can go up to 5.

6 - Extra Slot, Extra Spell, or Obtain Familiar.

You have a minor spell-like ability you can spam at will, a 2nd-level spell you can pull out if necessary, and a few utility spells. No Phenomenal Cosmic Power (tm), but entertaining for an E6 game, I think.

[Thurbane]

Um...let's try...Commoner Sorcerer/Wizard Wannabe.

Halruaan Commoner 1/Survivor 5, or "Yer A Wizard, 'arry"

Requires Int 14, higher is better; flaws

1 - Magical Training (Player's Guide to Faerun) - 1st level only, regional feat for Halruaa (FR); grants 3 0-level spells, a spellbook, and caster level 1.
1 - Precocious Apprentice (Complete Arcane) - 1st level only, caster level 1; grants 1 2nd-level spell; choose Scorching Ray or Melf's Acid Arrow.
1 - Reserve Feat (Complete Mage) - spell of 2nd level or higher; choose the acid or flame one, AFB right now.
1 - Keeper of Forbidden Knowledge (FC1) - Int 14; grants Spellcraft and Knowledge (the planes) as class skills

Dump skills into Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana).

3 - Practiced Spellcaster - Spellcraft 4; you now have caster level 3 and can go up to 5.

6 - Extra Slot, Extra Spell, or Obtain Familiar.

You have a minor spell-like ability you can spam at will, a 2nd-level spell you can pull out if necessary, and a few utility spells. No Phenomenal Cosmic Power (tm), but entertaining for an E6 game, I think.

That's a very interesting build...but I think it succeeds in spite of Survivor levels, rather than because of them.

[Troacctid]

I've never used survivor myself, but in it's defence:
If '5 levels of cleric nets you more power' is the benchmark, then a good many PrC's are utterly useless. (Anything not advancing casting, basically)

How about "5 levels of monk nets you more power"? I think Survivor fails that benchmark as well.

[Thurbane]

How about "5 levels of monk nets you more power"? I think Survivor fails that benchmark as well.

I think you're onto something there:

Survivor 5: 5d6 hp, BAB +0, Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4, 5x (2+int) skill points; DR 5/- Improved Evasion & Improved Uncanny Dodge

Monk 5: 5d8hp, BAB +3, Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4, 5x (4+int) skill points; 1d8 unarmed damage, +10 ft movement bonus, AC Bonus (Wis modifier +1), Bonus Feats x3 (Improved Unarmed Strike + 2 others), Evasion, Flurry of Blows, Ki Strike (magic), Purity of Body, Slow Fall 20 ft & Still Mind

...now admittedly, the monster has to be Lawful, and needs a decent Wis and not be wearing armor to get the most benefit - but I'd say Monk 5 adds a lot more survivability to a monster than Survivor 5.

I like the concept of survivor, but I think it needs more to make it worthwhile. If you were to cram Mettle and Fast Healing in there, it would look a lot more decent.

[Troacctid]

I think you're onto something there:

Survivor 5: 5d6 hp, BAB +0, Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4, 5x (2+int) skill points; DR 5/- Improved Evasion & Improved Uncanny Dodge

Monk 5: 5d8hp, BAB +3, Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4, 5x (4+int) skill points; 1d8 unarmed damage, +10 ft movement bonus, AC Bonus (Wis modifier +1), Bonus Feats x3 (Improved Unarmed Strike + 2 others), Evasion, Flurry of Blows, Ki Strike (magic), Purity of Body, Slow Fall 20 ft & Still Mind

...now admittedly, the monster has to be Lawful, and needs a decent Wis and not be wearing armor to get the most benefit - but I'd say Monk 5 adds a lot more survivability to a monster than Survivor 5.

You forgot Lay on Hands (via Broken One) and energy resistance (via Planar Monk). Even more survivability.

[weckar]

Fast HealingThis alone would fix nearly any martial-focused class, as it cures them of their one depletable. Stack in some immunity to fatigue/exhaustion and you got yourself a fighting machine that NEVER - NEEDS - TO STOP!!!

Which, admittedly, could make for a very cool Survivor-esque archetype and allow for a martial to actually carve out a type of niche in higher level play.

[Thurbane]

I might try this as a quick homebrew fix:

Hit die
d12




Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special


1st
+0
+2
+2
+2
Uncanny Dodge


2nd
+0
+3
+3
+3
Evasion


3rd
+0
+3
+3
+3
Improved Uncanny Dodge, Mettle


4th
+0
+4
+4
+4
Improved Evasion, DR 5/-


5th
+0
+4
+4
+4
Fast Healing 3

[Telonius]

I'm pretty sure the class would have had "Diehard" as a bonus feat if it had existed in 3.0.

[Troacctid]

I'm pretty sure the class would have had "Diehard" as a bonus feat if it had existed in 3.0.

Technically it did—it was in Ghostwalk. But I believe Savage Species still predated it. At the time, the equivalent feat was Remain Conscious.

[Divide by Zero]

Any prestige classes that require Improved Evasion/Uncanny Dodge? It might be useful for some early entry trick.