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Dr.Manhattan
2016-05-05, 06:41 AM
Hey I am looking to create a single-minion necromancer.
32 point buy, here is what he has so far
Str: 8
Dex: 8
Con: 12
Int: 13
Wis: 18
Cha: 16
Level 6
He has gone cleric 6 but that is not set in stone.
Feats are all adaptable (So far intuative attack - it works with his spells touch attacks, Corpsecrafter and tomb-tained soul)
Race human (maybe changeable, pref not)
I am helping a friend out therefore he has some strange request
All d&d 3.5 books allowed including dragon magazine, as long as it isnt too crazy but include source and page please.
His domains is necromancy (ECS) and (+1 to all necromancy spells) - He really likes that one so prob stuck
and Dream (SC)

All of this is current most of it can be changed, he currently has a a bloodhulk fighter (MM4)
How do I optimize this, so it can be effective with a single minon, what feats, prestiege classes etc, please help building this

OldTrees1
2016-05-05, 07:08 AM
If the campaign will reach 11th level or higher I recommend the Magic Domain.

Low level the Bloodhulks are fine choices (last one comes online at 10 cl in a desecrated area).

High level you would want to switch to Animate Dread Warrior which is a Sor/Wiz 6 spell (so available to Dread Necromancers via advanced learning). You will not need to cast it often so using a scroll is a viable option. You would need the Magic Domain to satisfy the 3 requirements


To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
The user must have the requisite ability score.

Magic Domain
Granted Power
Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half your cleric level (at least 1st level). For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard, actual wizard levels and these effective wizard levels stack.

However since your "as a wizard" caster level is much lower than your cleric caster level, you will run into this clause when activating the scroll:

If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.
(Note: Is the "natural 1 always fails" talking about the caster level check or the wisdom check?)

So DC 12 is the minimum DC for the 6th level spell and you would have 1d20 + 0.5 class level + misc modifiers. So if your misc modifiers are +5 then you would only fail on a 1 when you are an 11th level Cleric.

Dr.Manhattan
2016-05-08, 12:05 PM
If the campaign will reach 11th level or higher I recommend the Magic Domain.

Low level the Bloodhulks are fine choices (last one comes online at 10 cl in a desecrated area).

High level you would want to switch to Animate Dread Warrior which is a Sor/Wiz 6 spell (so available to Dread Necromancers via advanced learning). You will not need to cast it often so using a scroll is a viable option. You would need the Magic Domain to satisfy the 3 requirements


Thank you, do you have any prestiege classes, feats, items etc that could help?
So far I have found the rod of undead mastery

OldTrees1
2016-05-08, 12:59 PM
Thank you, do you have any prestiege classes, feats, items etc that could help?
So far I have found the rod of undead mastery

Well most of the undead master items/PrCs increase the size of one's control pools. However since you are limiting yourself to a single minion, you will never need to further increase your control pools. Even caster level boosts, the most prized boost for an army necromancer, are of little use to you.

For feats I would suggest Corpsecrafter(as you already knew) and the Fell Energy metamagic feat. Then you would animate your bloodhulks near altars affected by a Fell Energy Desecrate (3rd level slot) and raised by a Fell Energy Animate Dead(if Fell Energy increases the bonuses from Corpsecrafter). This should give a nice hp boost and might give it more strength (if the DM rules Fell Energy affects Corpsecrafter).

ShurikVch
2016-05-08, 05:54 PM
How about the stuff from Dragon magazines?

There are some feats:

#298
Desecrated Animation: +2 turn resistance
Improved Animation: +1 HD and +1 competence to attack and damage rolls

#312
Bolster Power: +1 turn resistance
Death Curse: explode on destruction - d3/HD damage in 10' radius, Ref 15 to half damage
Graveborn Expert: +4 on checks in Str- or Dex-based skill
Graveborn Warrior: bonus feat
Heightened Agility: +4 Dex
Heightened Strength: +4 Str
Uncanny Speed: +10' on base speed, +2 on initiative checks
Vicious Claws: +1 on damage roll (slashing)
Note: unlike most other means to improve undead, feats from #312 are completely unnecessary during the spellcasting - they work by preparing the corps beforehand; it's mean if you have access to feat change (such as Chameleon's "floating feat") you may use them all on the same creature

Sapreaver
2016-05-08, 06:12 PM
Can you equip an undead mindless minion with gear?

Gildedragon
2016-05-08, 06:49 PM
Necromancer Wizard can get you a skeleton butler with your HD and a bonus to str and Dex and nat armor contingent on your level.

Dr.Manhattan
2016-05-08, 06:54 PM
Can you equip an undead mindless minion with gear?
Yes you can, they cannot activate thing but they can wear magical gear

Dr.Manhattan
2016-05-08, 06:56 PM
How about the stuff from Dragon magazines?

There are some feats:

#298
Desecrated Animation: +2 turn resistance
Improved Animation: +1 HD and +1 competence to attack and damage rolls

#312
Bolster Power: +1 turn resistance
Death Curse: explode on destruction - d3/HD damage in 10' radius, Ref 15 to half damage
Graveborn Expert: +4 on checks in Str- or Dex-based skill
Graveborn Warrior: bonus feat
Heightened Agility: +4 Dex
Heightened Strength: +4 Str
Uncanny Speed: +10' on base speed, +2 on initiative checks
Vicious Claws: +1 on damage roll (slashing)
Note: unlike most other means to improve undead, feats from #312 are completely unnecessary during the spellcasting - they work by preparing the corps beforehand; it's mean if you have access to feat change (such as Chameleon's "floating feat") you may use them all on the same creature

Those are some very good suggestions, I will check with the gm if he allows them

Dr.Manhattan
2016-05-08, 09:01 PM
Necromancer Wizard can get you a skeleton butler with your HD and a bonus to str and Dex and nat armor contingent on your level.
He is kinda stuck on the whole cleric idea

ATHATH
2016-05-08, 10:18 PM
Have him take as many levels (including advancement past 5th level via the Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion PrC's) in the Paragnostic Apostle PrC as he can, taking the See Through the Veil ability whenever he can. This will boost his effective rebuking level sky-high, allowing him to rebuke a level-appropriate minion.

You could refluff the Techsmith's Gondsman (which technically scales with character level, by the way) as a custom-built undead creature.

If you can convince him to play a (refluffed, of course) Druid instead of a Cleric, you could get him to get the Plant Companion ACF and refluff the plant given to him as an undead creature that he's constantly improving. If he doesn't want to refluff the plant, you could get him to be a Talontar Blightlord.

ATHATH
2016-05-08, 10:22 PM
Don't forget to tell your player about Spellstitching!

Can you apply grafts (http://www.realmshelps.net/magic/items/grafts.shtml) to Undead creatures?

ShurikVch
2016-05-09, 01:55 PM
Dragon #303 have Embalming Fire - it's alchemical liquid which cause undead* soaked in it to burst into fire on damage, which give it +1d6 fire damage on unarmed attacks for 1 minute; cost only 50 gp
*RAW says "Zombie", but Bloodhulks just don't existed back then, so it probably should work

Notable buffs for Undead minion (all spells are from Spell Compendium)
10 minutes/CL:
1st
Ghoul Light: +1 turn resistance
2nd
Stone Bones: +3 natural AC
4th
Armor of Darkness: +4 deflection to AC (+1 more per 3 CL above 7), +4 turn resistance, +2 on saves vs. any holy, good, or light spells or effects
Iron Bones: +6 natural AC

Instant
6th/7th
Awaken Undead: not just make your minion smarter, but let it regain some class features and (Ex) abilities, +2 vs. control undead, and +2 turn resistance

Permanent (D)
7th/9th
Vile Death: undead gets Fiendish Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm) template; spell says it make target independent of you, but it's (D) spell; your minion gets uncooperative - you just dismiss the spell

Speaking about templates:
Entropic Creature (Planar Handbook): Int 3, Cha +2, +4 turn resistance, SR vs positive energy, Negative Energy Ray, and Negative Energy Aura
Fleshvigor (Dragon #315): +2 Str, +2 natural AC, bite attack and Weapon Focus with it, Cannibalistic Healing (heals by eating dead bodies)

Dr.Manhattan
2016-05-10, 07:40 AM
Don't forget to tell your player about Spellstitching!

Can you apply grafts (http://www.realmshelps.net/magic/items/grafts.shtml) to Undead creatures?

I will definetly tell him about spellstitching, I had forgotten about that, thanks! :D

Quertus
2016-05-10, 09:16 AM
Remember that clerics have 2 control pools - one for undead that they have animated, and one for undead that they turn. Unless your DM is willing to let you combine those pools (which would be kinda broken, IMO, if you are doing any optimization at all), you should think in terms of a 2-minion necromancer, at a minimum. Otherwise, you're just wasting class features.

OldTrees1
2016-05-10, 09:21 AM
Remember that clerics have 2 control pools - one for undead that they have animated, and one for undead that they turn. Unless your DM is willing to let you combine those pools (which would be kinda broken, IMO, if you are doing any optimization at all), you should think in terms of a 2-minion necromancer, at a minimum. Otherwise, you're just wasting class features.

Clerics are powerful enough they can get away with wasting a class feature for the sake of theme.

ATHATH
2016-05-10, 09:44 AM
Remember that clerics have 2 control pools - one for undead that they have animated, and one for undead that they turn. Unless your DM is willing to let you combine those pools (which would be kinda broken, IMO, if you are doing any optimization at all), you should think in terms of a 2-minion necromancer, at a minimum. Otherwise, you're just wasting class features.
Plus, you can only command undead of half of your effective rebuking level, which means that half of your pool will be empty if you have just one minion.

Dr.Manhattan
2016-05-10, 10:04 AM
Dragon #303 have Embalming Fire - it's alchemical liquid which cause undead* soaked in it to burst into fire on damage, which give it +1d6 fire damage on unarmed attacks for 1 minute; cost only 50 gp
*RAW says "Zombie", but Bloodhulks just don't existed back then, so it probably should work

Notable buffs for Undead minion (all spells are from Spell Compendium)
10 minutes/CL:
1st
Ghoul Light: +1 turn resistance
2nd
Stone Bones: +3 natural AC
4th
Armor of Darkness: +4 deflection to AC (+1 more per 3 CL above 7), +4 turn resistance, +2 on saves vs. any holy, good, or light spells or effects
Iron Bones: +6 natural AC

Instant
6th/7th
Awaken Undead: not just make your minion smarter, but let it regain some class features and (Ex) abilities, +2 vs. control undead, and +2 turn resistance

Permanent (D)
7th/9th
Vile Death: undead gets Fiendish Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm) template; spell says it make target independent of you, but it's (D) spell; your minion gets uncooperative - you just dismiss the spell

Speaking about templates:
Entropic Creature (Planar Handbook): Int 3, Cha +2, +4 turn resistance, SR vs positive energy, Negative Energy Ray, and Negative Energy Aura
Fleshvigor (Dragon #315): +2 Str, +2 natural AC, bite attack and Weapon Focus with it, Cannibalistic Healing (heals by eating dead bodies)

Damn, this is some nice buffs, I will talk to the gm about adding the templates, but It might be hard.