Bard magic initiate

[Sillybird99]

Hey all. I currently have a level 2 bard running curse of strahd for the first time. I am leaning towards lore bard and taking magic initiate at 4th level for even more spell versatility.

I'm curious as to what you guys think are good spells to choose. I have read a lot about how guidance and bless are awesome, but I have faerie fire already which is my main concentration spell so I feel it is kind of redundant.

I am mostly looking at cleric, sorcerer and warlock for the base classes to choose from, although I think I read picking bard would essentially give me one more spell slot and known spell?

What do you guys think about shield vs. Hellish rebuke? Bless vs. Faerie fire? Bard initiate?

This is a tough decision lol. Thanks!

[Zman]

I'm a fan of Greenflame Blade and Firebolt for Bard with a utility sorcerer spell. Are you going Lore or Valor Bard?

[Specter]

In the end, it all comes down to what you want to do. Buffing? Bless. Defense? Shield or Shield of Faith. Weapon damage? Hex.

The guide in my signature might help.

[Joe the Rat]

It does depend on what sort of versatility you are looking for.
If you're after direct damage, Sorcerer/Warlock is your pool, as you will want CHA-based spell attack/save options. However, if you are looking for more defensive and utility options, you can pull from anybody provided you stay away from attack / save spells. Light, Guidance, and Sanctuary. Or Druid for Guidance and Goodberry (nom nom nom). Mage Hand, Message, and Find Familiar.

[Sillybird99]

I'm a fan of Greenflame Blade and Firebolt for Bard with a utility sorcerer spell. Are you going Lore or Valor Bard?

I am leaning towards lore, but the low AC is a gonna be a real bummer. I am liking the idea of spirit gaurdian and mirror image at 6th.

[Sillybird99]

It does depend on what sort of versatility you are looking for.
If you're after direct damage, Sorcerer/Warlock is your pool, as you will want CHA-based spell attack/save options. However, if you are looking for more defensive and utility options, you can pull from anybody provided you stay away from attack / save spells. Light, Guidance, and Sanctuary. Or Druid for Guidance and Goodberry (nom nom nom). Mage Hand, Message, and Find Familiar.

I am sort of kind of torn between blasting and defense at this point since it is just me and a sword and board paladin so far.

[Zman]

I am leaning towards lore, but the low AC is a gonna be a real bummer. I am liking the idea of spirit gaurdian and mirror image at 6th.

My party's Lore Bard, lvl5, was the damage king of a recent fight with Firebolt and Greenflame Blade. Fighter couldn't hit and the Bard was a monster, haha. Having some kind of default attack option better than single Light Crossbow or Rapier attack has been very useful.

[JumboWheat01]

Warlock is good on the offensive end, something that bards sort of lack with their normal spells. You can easily snag Eldritch Blast, and start firing off what is essentially a heavy crossbow whenever you need. You can snag Booming Blade as well for when you're stuck in melee and need to fire off a spell.

As for your First level spell, while you can't make it scale, Armor of Agathys will help with your squishiness at first until you can get some decent armor.

[Coyote81]

I am leaning towards lore, but the low AC is a gonna be a real bummer. I am liking the idea of spirit guardian and mirror image at 6th.

What about take Magic initiate Sorc. Green Flame Blade, Firebolt and Mage Armor(should help with your low ac issue as long as your dex is decent.and you take a shield.)

[Arkhios]

Sillybird99,

Remember, however, that the Magic Initiate only lets you cast the first level spell from the class you chose the feat for only once in a long rest (=1 per "day") and only as a first level spell. Unless you took Magic Initiate into Bard, while already being a Bard, you can't use your other spell slots to cast the spell.

In essence you gain one additional first level spell slot which you can use only to cast the spell you gained from Magic Initiate. (Doesn't restrict cantrips though, since they do not use spell slots at all)

Also, while the feat doesn't mention a spellcasting ability score minimum, every spell you gain through Magic Initiate use the same ability score as their respective classes do, so if any of the spells, cantrip or otherwise, call for a spell attack roll, a saving throw, or your spellcasting modifier, you use your intelligence (if Wizard spell), wisdom (if Cleric or Druid spell), or charisma (if Bard, Sorcerer, or Warlock spell); note, you can't take paladin or ranger spells through the feat.

I'm aware that some of these things have been said earlier, just being thorough.

[Sillybird99]

My party's Lore Bard, lvl5, was the damage king of a recent fight with Firebolt and Greenflame Blade. Fighter couldn't hit and the Bard was a monster, haha. Having some kind of default attack option better than single Light Crossbow or Rapier attack has been very useful.

Did you take mage initiate? Also I didn't mention above but only phb options are available a few of these spells being mentioned are not usable.

[Sillybird99]

What about take Magic initiate Sorc. Gteen Flame Blade, Firebox and Mage Armor(should help with your low ac issue as long as your dex is decent.and you take a shield.)

I have 15 Ac (Studded leather +3 dex). Unfortunately won't get better Ac without valour bard or a magic secret spell.

15 isn't aweful AC I suppose. I do like the idea of getting eldritch blast or firebolt. Maybe hellish rebuke or shield would be decent, if only once per day.

[Sillybird99]

Sillybird99,

Remember, however, that the Magic Initiate only lets you cast the first level spell from the class you chose the feat for only once in a long rest (=1 per "day") and only as a first level spell. Unless you took Magic Initiate into Bard, while already being a Bard, you can't use your other spell slots to cast the spell.

In essence you gain one additional first level spell slot which you can use only to cast the spell you gained from Magic Initiate. (Doesn't restrict cantrips though, since they do not use spell slots at all)

Also, while the feat doesn't mention a spellcasting ability score minimum, every spell you gain through Magic Initiate use the same ability score as their respective classes do, so if any of the spells, cantrip or otherwise, call for a spell attack roll, a saving throw, or your spellcasting modifier, you use your intelligence (if Wizard spell), wisdom (if Cleric or Druid spell), or charisma (if Bard, Sorcerer, or Warlock spell); note, you can't take paladin or ranger spells through the feat.

I'm aware that some of these things have been said earlier, just being thorough.

My understanding was that you can cast it once per day at its lowest level, but since it is a known spell it can also be cast with other spell slots.

I thought there was an errata about this, but I can't seem to find it.

[Arkhios]

My understanding was that you can cast it once per day at its lowest level, but since it is a known spell it can also be cast with other spell slots.

I thought there was an errata about this, but I can't seem to find it.

The spell is still a spell known for that specific class for which you take the feat. If you take Magic Initiate (bard) then it is a one more bard spell known to you. Magic Initiate doesn't work like Magical Secrets. It does not make a Sorcerer spell become a Bard spell.

The errata/sage advice is here. (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats)
In fact, you can find all Sage Advices from Sage Advice Compendium (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium_1.0.pdf) (PDF download link)


If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.

In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.

[Sillybird99]

The spell is still a spell known for that specific class for which you take the feat. If you take Magic Initiate (bard) then it is a one more bard spell known to you. Magic Initiate doesn't work like Magical Secrets. It does not make a Sorcerer spell become a Bard spell.

The errata/sage advice is here. (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats)
In fact, you can find all Sage Advices from Sage Advice Compendium (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium_1.0.pdf) (PDF download link)

Awesome thanks for the link dig. Seems like mage initiate: bard is kind of bad since gaining a first level spell slot is not gonna make a huge difference after level 4 when I can take the feat.

[Aaron Underhand]

The beauty of this feat is the shear number of options it gives you!

Roleplaying, Party composition, and secondary stats are all major considerations in selection options.

However just looking at Lore bard in isolation what I would say is:

You are already good at skills, and have access to healing (Otherwise Druid with Guidance, and Goodberry would be a major pick - Shillelagh is great but you need wisdom and a Lore bard should not be toe to toe if you can avoid it!)

Ditto for Cleric

What you ARE short of is Damage Cantrips, Direct Damage Spells and AC

For these Wizard is only an option if you have great Int - after all it's not likely to be going up with level!

That leaves, in my mind two really good options:

Warlock - Eldritch Blast, Hex, and another cantrip - possibly Poison Spray. This is the 'default' option, because the multiple attacks with EB improve the impact of Hex (although Hex competes for Concentration you only get it once/day - it imposes a condition as well, and lasts an hour!)

Sorc - Firebolt, Shocking Grasp and either Shield or Mage Armour - This would be my favourite for yourself - reasonable ranged damage, Escape from melee with the heavily armoured foe, and either +1 AC always, or +5 AC emergency button - yes it's only once /day, but you will always have it once /day.

[INDYSTAR188]

The beauty of this feat is the shear number of options it gives you!

Roleplaying, Party composition, and secondary stats are all major considerations in selection options.

However just looking at Lore bard in isolation what I would say is:

You are already good at skills, and have access to healing (Otherwise Druid with Guidance, and Goodberry would be a major pick - Shillelagh is great but you need wisdom and a Lore bard should not be toe to toe if you can avoid it!)

Ditto for Cleric

What you ARE short of is Damage Cantrips, Direct Damage Spells and AC

For these Wizard is only an option if you have great Int - after all it's not likely to be going up with level!

That leaves, in my mind two really good options:

Warlock - Eldritch Blast, Hex, and another cantrip - possibly Poison Spray. This is the 'default' option, because the multiple attacks with EB improve the impact of Hex (although Hex competes for Concentration you only get it once/day - it imposes a condition as well, and lasts an hour!)

Sorc - Firebolt, Shocking Grasp and either Shield or Mage Armour - This would be my favourite for yourself - reasonable ranged damage, Escape from melee with the heavily armoured foe, and either +1 AC always, or +5 AC emergency button - yes it's only once /day, but you will always have it once /day.

Given these options I would probably go for the sorcerer. You already have so much flexibility and utility that I think it makes sense to get cantrips and a defensive option.

[Sillybird99]

I like the sorcerer option too. I am curious as to whether or not there are stronger options in general though such as other feats or an ability score increase.

I am only really worried about strength because we are doing CoS with a party of three (although only two so far, the 3rd hasn't showed up yet).

[Aaron Underhand]

I like the sorcerer option too. I am curious as to whether or not there are stronger options in general though such as other feats or an ability score increase.



I don't know the module, so I can only speak in general, but:

ASI - Depends on your stats, encounters, and long term aims... can't rate against other options, but 'Fun' is also a consideration - feats are fun!

Alert is a feat I really rate - You are NEVER surprised, Often go first, and don't suffer some sneak attacks

Spell Sniper if you are mainly operating at range - get's you the cantrip (EB or Firebolt), and some useful other effects

War caster if you are often in the thick of things - Ideally you shouldn't be, but with a small party it's hard to avoid

[Sillybird99]

I don't know the module, so I can only speak in general, but:

ASI - Depends on your stats, encounters, and long term aims... can't rate against other options, but 'Fun' is also a consideration - feats are fun!

Alert is a feat I really rate - You are NEVER surprised, Often go first, and don't suffer some sneak attacks

Spell Sniper if you are mainly operating at range - get's you the cantrip (EB or Firebolt), and some useful other effects

War caster if you are often in the thick of things - Ideally you shouldn't be, but with a small party it's hard to avoid

Yeah fun is a factor. I will probably go with magic initiate. Warcaster would be nice, but if I don't have to attack with weapons it becomes less effective. Shield, shocking grasp and Firebolt seem solid for defense and some minor blasting.