Looking for a Turn Everything(or alot) build

[WhiteBread]

Hey guys! I am currently looking for a build that utilizes as many Turn/Rebuke variants as possible. You can basically use anything 3.5 related and a normal or gestalt build is allowed.

Currently the only good thing i thought of was a dragonwrought kobold cleric who takes as many epic feats in bonus domain as possible.(Spider Domain etc)

Are there different builds without the dragonwrought kobold cheese? Which are effective too?

Besides, would taking a cleric 10/ sovereign speaker 10 progress domains taking the current total level or would i be stuck with all domains having only 10 levels?

Thanks in advance!

Edit: Do gestalt characters like Cleric/Dread Necro improve Rebuke double? As far as i know Rebuke Undead stacks with all classes that grant it. So basically you would have 2 classes at start granting rebuke making it twice as strong?

[Esprit15]

Death Delver is nice for having both turn and rebuke, if that's what you're into.

[WhiteBread]

Death Delver is nice for having both turn and rebuke, if that's what you're into.

Did i miss something? I only see him being able to rebuke.

[Esprit15]

That's why you enter as a good cleric, so you can do both.

[Dunsparce]

Though technically rebuke rather than turn, Dragon Magazine #324 has a Ranger Variant called Wild Defender that can Rebuke animals at level 6, vermin at level 8, plants at level 12, fey at level 14, oozes at level 18, and elementals at level 20. Unfortunately it does not include the command function of rebuke.

[WhiteBread]

Though technically rebuke rather than turn, Dragon Magazine #324 has a Ranger Variant called Wild Defender that can Rebuke animals at level 6, vermin at level 8, plants at level 12, fey at level 14, oozes at level 18, and elementals at level 20. Unfortunately it does not include the command function of rebuke.

This is pretty good and about what i am looking for. More things like these please :D

[Dunsparce]

This is pretty good and about what i am looking for. More things like these please :D

Off the top of my head there's a Paladin variant that gets Rebuke Dragons instead of Turn Undead at level 4, the various elemental domains clerics can get also allow the ability to rebuke elementals of their type and turn elementals of the opposite type (Like Air Domain allows you to rebuke/command/bolster Air Elementals and turn Earth Elementals)

[OldTrees1]

Edit: Do gestalt characters like Cleric/Dread Necro improve Rebuke double? As far as i know Rebuke Undead stacks with all classes that grant it. So basically you would have 2 classes at start granting rebuke making it twice as strong?

No. If you would ever gain something on both sides of a gestalt at the same level, instead you only get one copy.

[ATHATH]

I've actually been working on a character for pretty much exactly this.

These Domains Grant Rebuking: Warforged, Fire, Cold, Water, Earth, Air, Blightlord, Ooze, Deathless, Spider

These Feats Grant Rebuking: Plant Control, Initiate of Nature, Vow of the Spider Queen, Initiate of Gaunandaur, Blessed By Tem Et Nu (note: BBTET doesn't restrict you from rebuking templated hippopotami...), Kin Mastery

By the way, I DON'T recommend taking levels in Sovereign Speaker. Instead, use the Substitute Domain spell to switch your existing three (Cloistered Cleric gives the Knowledge domain) domain to ones more appropriate for the enemies that you are facing. Due to how rebuking works, creatures that you've rebuked won't fall out of your control on their own once you swap away the domain that's controlling them.

The most important class (IMHO) for rebuking-focused characters is the Paragnostic Apostle PrC. It's a five-level PrC that advances spellcasting, Turn/Rebuke Undead (not Rebuke Dragons or Rebuke Vermin, sadly), and all of your domain powers, and is incredibly easy to get into (most Clerics will probably qualify for it accidentally). Look at the See Through the Veil ability. It gives a +2 to your effective rebuking level (which is much better than bonuses to rebuking checks, if you're into commanding creatures (which we are)). It can be chosen every other level, and, if you take See Through the Veil whenever you can, effectively gives Paragnostic Apostle double the progression for Rebuke Undead and domain-based rebuking and the normal progression for Rebuke Dragons and Rebuke Vermin. See Through the Veil also gives its bonus to the Rebuking Level for your feats. Naturally, you'll want to extend Paragnostic Apostle as long/far as possible, to get the most benefit out of it. The Legacy Champion and Uncanny Trickster PrC's can help you with that.

[Keld Denar]

You can turn outsiders with the spell Turn Anathema from Complete Champion if they have an alignment component opposite one of yours. That means a LG cleric can turn C or E outsiders.

Also, you need to be able to turn the HD. The Sacred armor and shield enhancements from LM will increase your turning level by 2 each. Pyhlactery of Undead Turning increases that level. Ephod of Authority from MIC gives 1 effective level and the Improved Turning feat gives another.

[ATHATH]

Also, there's a TN Paladin variant (called the Incarnate) in... Dragon 311 or 313, I can't remember which. Anyway, it has the ability to rebuke Outsiders.

[WhiteBread]

-snip

The most important class (IMHO) for rebuking-focused characters is the Paragnostic Apostle PrC.
-snip

That prc helps alot for the whole rebuke/turn aspect. But the spell u listed " Substitute Domain" sadly only works with domains from the same god. (What if a cleric has no deity he believes in?).
A feat that would grant total level as level used for rebuking/turn checks would be awesome.

Edit: A good idea might be to just change the monsters type via a spell or something. Don't know if that is possible though.

[Jowgen]

I can't add anything on how to turn more things, but I did just happen to have done some looking into pimping out your Holy Symbol to give your turning a boost.

Worship St Cuthbert and get a special Holy Symbol (CC 135) to get +1 level to your turning (350 gp)
Have that special Holy Symbol come from St Cuthbert's home plane (Arcadia) and it becomes a True Holy Symbol (PlH), giving a +2 sacred bonus on your turning check (500 gp).
Next, make it a Reliquiary Holy Symbol (MIC) and fullfill the requirements to get 3 extra turn attempts (1000 gp); and also make it a Greater Holy Symbol (DotF) to get the Empower Turning feat (5040 gp, plus a 500 gp MIC surcharge for stacking it with Reliquary).

FInally, you have a choice to make regarding the material to have it made from. Flametouched Iron (ECS) can increase your turning level by an extra 1, but Purple Mournlode (MoE) makes it so that everything you turn takes damage equal to your turning level.

In general, Flametouched Iron is better I find, but Mournlode can combo with the Turn Anathema spell, as its bypasses the no-turn-to-destory stipulation.

Lastly, as a side note, if you actually need the extra turning feat to qualify for something, rather than just needing more turns in general, the Sword of the Glorious Pearl (+3 aquatic holy pearlsteel bastard sword, from Stormwrack) grants said feat for 75.335 gp.

[WhiteBread]

I can't add anything on how to turn more things, but I did just happen to have done some looking into pimping out your Holy Symbol to give your turning a boost.

Worship St Cuthbert and get a special Holy Symbol (CC 135) to get +1 level to your turning (350 gp)


Does that add to any turning type? Or only turn/rebuke undead?

[ATHATH]

That prc helps alot for the whole rebuke/turn aspect. But the spell u listed " Substitute Domain" sadly only works with domains from the same god. (What if a cleric has no deity he believes in?).
A feat that would grant total level as level used for rebuking/turn checks would be awesome.

Edit: A good idea might be to just change the monsters type via a spell or something. Don't know if that is possible though.
Which is why you worship a custom concept with all of the domains that you want, and dip into another Divine Spellcasting Class (with a different patron) to qualify for feats like Initiate of Nature. I recommend Death Delver for this.

If you can force the effects of Aspect of the Wolf off onto another creature, you can rebuke it using the Initiate of Nature feat. It will remain rebuked even when the spell wears off.

[Jowgen]

Does that add to any turning type? Or only turn/rebuke undead?

I'm pretty sure all the one's I cited specify turn undead (except flametouched, which also mentions censure fiends), but I think the real question is how the other turnings are worded.

Turn Anathema for example allows you to "turn creatures with the opposing alignment subtype as though they were undead", meaning all undead-turning benefits (except the explicitly excluded destory and rebuke) apply to this turning as well.

Speaking off, if you can get yourself some alignment subtypes without changing your actual alignment, the use of turn anathema is expanded, as it allows you to count as both simultaneously (e.g. a LG cleric with the Chaotic and Evil subtype could turn any outsider subtype).

[WhiteBread]

Which is why you worship a custom concept with all of the domains that you want, and dip into another Divine Spellcasting Class (with a different patron) to qualify for feats like Initiate of Nature. I recommend Death Delver for this.

If you can force the effects of Aspect of the Wolf off onto another creature, you can rebuke it using the Initiate of Nature feat. It will remain rebuked even when the spell wears off.

About what i am looking for but u can't use the Aspect of the Wolf on others as it has only personal range. But something similar would do. Or is there a way to change that?



I'm pretty sure all the one's I cited specify turn undead (except flametouched, which also mentions censure fiends), but I think the real question is how the other turnings are worded.

Turn Anathema for example allows you to "turn creatures with the opposing alignment subtype as though they were undead", meaning all undead-turning benefits (except the explicitly excluded destory and rebuke) apply to this turning as well.

Speaking off, if you can get yourself some alignment subtypes without changing your actual alignment, the use of turn anathema is expanded, as it allows you to count as both simultaneously (e.g. a LG cleric with the Chaotic and Evil subtype could turn any outsider subtype).


As far as i know anything affecting a turn check will also increase the rebuke side but not vice-versa. It had something to do with the wording.

[ATHATH]

About what i am looking for but u can't use the Aspect of the Wolf on others as it has only personal range. But something similar would do. Or is there a way to change that?





As far as i know anything affecting a turn check will also increase the rebuke side but not vice-versa. It had something to do with the wording.
There are a few ways, but they're a bit obscure. Ordained Champion is one of them, but it requires quite a few levels of investment. See if you can get another party member to take a level in Druid and a few levels in OC so that they can deliver Aspect of the Wolf for you.

As to the second part of your post, you are correct.

[WhiteBread]

Asking myself if that would work with baleful polymorph? They retain their HD but u can make them into an animal which would therefore be turnable. After 1 day they will become a standard animal of that type.
Maybe even better : Polymoprh Other. Simply Polymorph them into Driders and have the spider domain or something similar.

[noob]

I believe there is a priest variant with rebuke followers of god X(you can choose a god)

[Telonius]

Water Domain would allow you to turn an Alot of Fire (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html). Not sure how you'd turn a regular one, though. It's most likely a magical beast, so unless you apply a template, it's going to be tough to figure a way to do that.

[WhiteBread]

Water Domain would allow you to turn an Alot of Fire (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html). Not sure how you'd turn a regular one, though. It's most likely a magical beast, so unless you apply a template, it's going to be tough to figure a way to do that.

:smallwink: As a german it is sometimes hard to remember if it is "a lot" or "alot" simply because I am not too familiar with the language. Moreover I only really check spelling twice if it is something really important, which excludes forum/chats. However thanks anyway. Maybe that funny post will help me remember that I don't want to mess with alots. :smallbiggrin:

[noce]

The Voodan is a base class from Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends, a Ravenloft adventure.
He gets to turn or rebuke (his choice) two spirits from the following list: animals, elementals, fey, outsiders, undead.

Overall it is a very nice class, it's a pity it is not published in a complete book.

[Quertus]

Though technically rebuke rather than turn, Dragon Magazine #324 has a Ranger Variant called Wild Defender that can Rebuke animals at level 6, vermin at level 8, plants at level 12, fey at level 14, oozes at level 18, and elementals at level 20. Unfortunately it does not include the command function of rebuke.


I've actually been working on a character for pretty much exactly this.

These Domains Grant Rebuking: Warforged, Fire, Cold, Water, Earth, Air, Blightlord, Ooze, Deathless, Spider

These Feats Grant Rebuking: Plant Control, Initiate of Nature, Vow of the Spider Queen, Initiate of Gaunandaur, Blessed By Tem Et Nu (note: BBTET doesn't restrict you from rebuking templated hippopotami...), Kin Mastery

By the way, I DON'T recommend taking levels in Sovereign Speaker. Instead, use the Substitute Domain spell to switch your existing three (Cloistered Cleric gives the Knowledge domain) domain to ones more appropriate for the enemies that you are facing. Due to how rebuking works, creatures that you've rebuked won't fall out of your control on their own once you swap away the domain that's controlling them.

The most important class (IMHO) for rebuking-focused characters is the Paragnostic Apostle PrC. It's a five-level PrC that advances spellcasting, Turn/Rebuke Undead (not Rebuke Dragons or Rebuke Vermin, sadly), and all of your domain powers, and is incredibly easy to get into (most Clerics will probably qualify for it accidentally). Look at the See Through the Veil ability. It gives a +2 to your effective rebuking level (which is much better than bonuses to rebuking checks, if you're into commanding creatures (which we are)). It can be chosen every other level, and, if you take See Through the Veil whenever you can, effectively gives Paragnostic Apostle double the progression for Rebuke Undead and domain-based rebuking and the normal progression for Rebuke Dragons and Rebuke Vermin. See Through the Veil also gives its bonus to the Rebuking Level for your feats. Naturally, you'll want to extend Paragnostic Apostle as long/far as possible, to get the most benefit out of it. The Legacy Champion and Uncanny Trickster PrC's can help you with that.


You can turn outsiders with the spell Turn Anathema from Complete Champion if they have an alignment component opposite one of yours. That means a LG cleric can turn C or E outsiders.

Also, you need to be able to turn the HD. The Sacred armor and shield enhancements from LM will increase your turning level by 2 each. Pyhlactery of Undead Turning increases that level. Ephod of Authority from MIC gives 1 effective level and the Improved Turning feat gives another.

So you gestalt a Wild Defender with a Cloistered Cleric... use Substitute Domain... give yourself all alignments... take Turn Anathema and Disciple of the Sun... and, with a lenient DM, maybe you can command everything! :smallbiggrin:

[WhiteBread]

So you gestalt a Wild Defender with a Cloistered Cleric... use Substitute Domain... give yourself all alignments... take Turn Anathema and Disciple of the Sun... and, with a lenient DM, maybe you can command everything! :smallbiggrin:

Way to be a Pokemon Master? xD

[Vortenger]

Sovereign Speaker is my go to answer for this issue as well, but I am compelled to point out the class is only a 9 level PRC and cannot go epic as a result. They saw that trick coming.