Roy's Archon's mission

[Seto]

Hey guys!

While rereading the strips, I remembered that in this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html) Roy tells Roy's Archon to remember "what I need you to do" and the Archon replies that they'll do it, even though they have no idea if it will work.
Now, I don't think we've ever had confirmation on what it is, or if we have it slipped my mind. I know it's supposed to be mysterious and will almost certainly play a role later. Therefore, I imagine that there's been plenty of speculation already.

For those of you who were already around at that time, what did the speculation about this say? For the others, do you have ideas?

Myself, since the mysterious mission must take place in Heaven or on the clouds (and given Roy's responsible and caring personality), I'd imagine that Roy asked the Archon to take care of Eric, or relay a message to his grandpa, or something to do with his family in some way, but then I don't understand why Roy's Archon has "no idea if it will work". This line makes me think that it might pertain to strategy or Xykon, and somehow give Roy/the Order an advantage at a crucial moment, but... I'm drawing a complete blank on that line of thought.

[Ron Miel]

No, whatever the plan is, it hasn't happened yet.


My own speculation:

:roy: WE tried so hard to bring you back. I guess it was so nice here it never occurred to you to come when we called.

I'm guessing that, after Xykon's defeat, Roy will try again to have Eric raised. This time, Roy's Archon will be there to remind Eric to go home.

[BaronOfHell]

Apart from the duration Eric has been gone.. Eric is with his mother now, so I think the situation has changed.

[Peelee]

Apart from the duration Eric has been gone.. Eric is with his mother now, so I think the situation has changed.

I don't think the duration is as much a restriction as not having any of the little dude's body.

[snowblizz]

I don't think the duration is as much a restriction as not having any of the little dude's body.

For True Resurrection body is not a requirement. And given the 10 years dead per level of caster it seems time wouldn't be much of an impediment either.

And this is why Rich does not like the spell at all. Not to mention this would totally invalidate much of the impact of Rich's story I'd say. Based on that I sincerely doubt it. I mean just the mechanics of raising a child that should be an adult now has implications very much of "let's not even go there".

[Ron Miel]

Presumably Eric is buried and can be exhumed. Or maybe the family retained a few hairs for future rez attempts. Even one hair or one drop of blood is enough.

[Peelee]

For True Resurrection body is not a requirement. And given the 10 years dead per level of caster it seems time wouldn't be much of an impediment either.

And this is why Rich does not like the spell at all.

Yeah, I'd bet money that True Res doesn't exist in OotS-world, which is why I mentioned needing the body as having impact.

[Mandor]

I had assumed it was something to try to help Roy remember the Spellsplinter manuver that his grandad showed him, and that therefore it did work and it's over now.
But, if it was something separate, something dealing with the spirits in the afterlife ....

a) could be "Check in on Miko, try to calm her down from berzerk rage" ... THAT would certainly be a mission of dubious odds of success...
b) could be "See if you can find Soon, and if he can give us any info on the other Gates, and/or how to repair a busted Gate"
c) could be "Can you arrange for a visitor's pass for Celia if I die again?"
d) could be "Can you try to rally the hosts of heavan for a goal-line stand at the last gate?"

[Morquard]

Yeah, I'd bet money that True Res doesn't exist in OotS-world, which is why I mentioned needing the body as having impact.

I'll take that money, thank you.
"If we kill Nale, all he needs is for Hilgya or Zz'dtri or someone we don't even know about to drum up the cash for a True Resurrection spell, and BAM!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html)

[Ruck]

No, whatever the plan is, it hasn't happened yet.


My own speculation:

:roy: WE tried so hard to bring you back. I guess it was so nice here it never occurred to you to come when we called.

I'm guessing that, after Xykon's defeat, Roy will try again to have Eric raised. This time, Roy's Archon will be there to remind Eric to go home.

Why?

Eric's mother and grandfather are there with him. He's been dead for nineteen years. Can you even be raised after that length of time? Would he come back as a two(?)-year-old and Roy raise him basically as a single dad? I don't see it happening.

Thinking outside of the story, I'd expect Roy's Archon's task to be more plot-relevant.

[An Enemy Spy]

I'm pretty sure the Giant has said True Resurrection will never be used in this story since he thinks it's too easy of a away to bring someone back.

[Ron Miel]

Why?

Eric's mother and grandfather are there with him.

Because, as nice as the afterlife is, being alive is better. Rezzing him will give him the chance of a real life.




He's been dead for nineteen years. Can you even be raised after that length of time?

No expert, but I believe the time limit is 10 years per caster level, and a cleric must be fairly high level to cast it.

So, several decades.



Would he come back as a two(?)-year-old

Yes.


and Roy raise him basically as a single dad? I don't see it happening.

Sure, why not.

[Manty5]

I think it has something to do with the fact that Roy had just found out that the Oracle's powers apparently don't cross over into the ethereal realm. We possibly haven't heard the last of our scaly friend...

[BaronOfHell]

I'm pretty sure the Giant has said True Resurrection will never be used in this story since he thinks it's too easy of a away to bring someone back.

Yes the author made a note to his readers explaining why we'd not see this spell. This way it'd hopefully be a minimal amount of people who afterwards questions the lack of true res. But it does not change that true res does exist in the in-comic universe as already established.

Personally I prefer to ignore the authors comment if it somehow contradicts the world I imagine when I read his stories, as long as it's only minor as in this incidence, but otherwise it can also add a lot of interesting stuff.

[Morquard]

Yes it's very unlikely we'll ever see True Res. It was mentioned that it exists, but it was also mentioned that aside from Redcloak probably no cleric is high enough to even cast it.

So yes, I doubt it will be used. Resurrection (the normal spell) needs just a tiny piece of the body and has a 10 year/caster level limit. It's a 7th level spell so the cleric gotta be 13 at least, which makes this 130 years. Easy peasy, as long as there's some piece left.

I'm not sure it's that though, I rather believe it's something that will help defeat Xykon.

[snowblizz]

Yes it's very unlikely we'll ever see True Res. It was mentioned that it exists, but it was also mentioned that aside from Redcloak probably no cleric is high enough to even cast it.


That was Belkar and Haley spitballing ideas. Redcloak is the first or only one they can think of in that moment. Doesn't make lvl17 clerics common by any means but we've seen plenty (for some interpretations of plenty) of epic wizards (or high levels ones) around so logically there'd be some lvl17 clerics around too. Just not easily accessible in the time and palce Belakr and Haley find themselves.

[Morquard]

Which epic level wizards (or even high level ones) have we seen aside from Dorukan and Girard, and I guess the 3 splices. All of which are dead.

[Bulldog Psion]

Pretty hard to imagine what it could be, isn't it? This one seems likely to be a total surprise when it happens -- one of the few twists that the forum probably can't guess beforehand. :smallsmile:

[snowblizz]

Which epic level wizards (or even high level ones) have we seen aside from Dorukan and Girard, and I guess the 3 splices. All of which are dead.

Miron and Laurin. Eugene and master Fyron. Xykon. The Iron Mages including Vaarsuvius' master. Heck V has bummed around as an adventurer for 2 years and gotten to lvl16. Most of these are hard to peg level on of course, but unless the story has shown us each and every instance of high level wizard they can't be once in a lifetime occurances.

[Ron Miel]

That was Belkar and Haley spitballing ideas. Redcloak is the first or only one they can think of in that moment.

And Belkar is delirious and rambling.

[goodpeople25]

True Rez is known, but that dosen't actually mean it exists, and if it did exist it wouldn't have to be the version we know. (The Giant's not so amazing true resurrection spell if you will, could have any number of ways to make it less story breaking)
And while i know it's a joke (though true rez was just spitballing ideas by people who can and do break the 4th wall) if knowing the name of something means it exists why did Redcloak take some time to figure out if they used Psionics?
Maybe true rez is involved in one or more bed time stories/fairytales(or whatever they call those) and doesn't actually exist. Makes sense to me how that would come about.

[wumpus]

True Rez is known, but that dosen't actually mean it exists, and if it did exist it wouldn't have to be the version we know. (The Giant's not so amazing true resurrection spell if you will, could have any number of ways to make it less story breaking)
And while i know it's a joke (though true rez was just spitballing ideas by people who can and do break the 4th wall) if knowing the name of something means it exists why did Redcloak take some time to figure out if they used Psionics?
Maybe true rez is involved in one or more bed time stories/fairytales(or whatever they call those) and doesn't actually exist. Makes sense to me how that would come about.

A lot might depend on which books are considered "canonical" by the OOTS universe. Psionics might be referenced in a number of sourcebooks (and presumably Redcloak has chased more than a few down), but no canonical book contains psionics (or possibly has all the psionics rules crossed out). Eberron has a note that "if it is in D&D it is in Eberron", but most campaign settings need to limit things and Rich is pretty particular about what is allowed in OOTS (that and if Pun-pun was possible, Redcloak would have ascended by now).

We really don't know all that much about sourcebooks and OOTS. We know that the smarter players (such as Roy and Halley) have read at least the Players Handbook. We know that obscure sourcebooks exist (thus Julio Scoundrél could learn "dashing swordsman"). But we don't know anything about which parts are missing nor which parts are struck from the DMG. It may just be that the only cleric in the world that can cast ninth level spells is Redcloak (the Order of the Scribble is/was epic but lacks a cleric). There might not be one willing to true resurrect *anyone* (assuming that the time dead counts as age: Right-Eye can't be resurrected).

[BaronOfHell]

Eugene and master Fyron. [...] The Iron Mages including Vaarsuvius' master. .

One way they're perhaps not epic is if they weren't acting out as adventures, or at least not a lot. Then if these people have had low level apprentices, these might see their masters as semi-invincible compared to themselves.


True Rez is known, but that dosen't actually mean it exists

Not that it has anything to do with your post, but it struck me that might be how there could exist atheistic people in the OotS universe. "Gods? Yeah we know about gods, doesn't mean they exist."

[Kish]

Vaarsuvius explicitly became an adventurer because it would make them advance in levels much faster than any other approach. They entered an Iron Mage competition and might have won had they not humorously messed up when they were just out of apprenticeship.

So "Vaarsuvius bummed around for two years as an adventurer and got to level 16, so all these mages who weren't actively adventuring should be assumed to be really high level" is exactly the wrong way to look at it.

A number of the claimed "wizards" are sorcerers (or a psion), but that's not really important. The established-epic characters we've seen are: Xykon. The Order of the Scribble, described as "low-epic" by Rich. The splices, who may have lived any time since the first world was created. Unless Nero or Cedrik lied about this, the combined power of the splices dwarfed the arcane energy of any mortal spellcaster who has ever lived. And that is all, unless we start counting gods and archfiends, which would be well past the "this is getting profoundly silly" barrier.

[Peelee]

I'll take that money, thank you.
"If we kill Nale, all he needs is for Hilgya or Zz'dtri or someone we don't even know about to drum up the cash for a True Resurrection spell, and BAM!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html)

You'll take the bet, not the money. As already pointed out, knowledge of its existence in D&D rules does not necessarily equate to its actual existence in Stickworld.

[Darth Paul]

I still wonder (as I did the last time this came up) if it has something to do with adding the power of Grandpa Greenhilt's sword- a heavenly copy of the Greenhilt sword, that exists because Granddad remembers it from his life- to the earthly Greenhilt sword that Roy carries. Now that we know the sword qualifies as an Ancestral Weapon, the possibility intrigues me even more.

[Bulldog Psion]

I still wonder (as I did the last time this came up) if it has something to do with adding the power of Grandpa Greenhilt's sword- a heavenly copy of the Greenhilt sword, that exists because Granddad remembers it from his life- to the earthly Greenhilt sword that Roy carries. Now that we know the sword qualifies as an Ancestral Weapon, the possibility intrigues me even more.

If your speculation is correct -- does that mean, with the sword apparently manifesting new powers, that the Archon's mission has already worked?

[Darth Paul]

Hmm... Could be, Bulldog. Could be.

My thoughts were more leaning toward an ethereal Greenhilt sword suddenly appearing at a critical moment and combining with Roy's, but this may be what's effectively happening with the Ancestral Weapon powers. Whatever those powers turn out to be.

[littlebum2002]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of bringing a toddler back from being dead for 20+ years SUPER creepy?

[snowblizz]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of bringing a toddler back from being dead for 20+ years SUPER creepy?

No. I refer back to my post of #5.

[Bulldog Psion]

Hmm... Could be, Bulldog. Could be.

My thoughts were more leaning toward an ethereal Greenhilt sword suddenly appearing at a critical moment and combining with Roy's, but this may be what's effectively happening with the Ancestral Weapon powers. Whatever those powers turn out to be.

Regardless, I think that your idea is one of the few truly original theories I've seen here in a long time, so I salute you. :smallsmile:

I'm also no longer sure that combat won't play a role in defeating Xykon. For a long time, I thought the Order would beat him through pure trickery, being too unoptimized to take him on. But with that undead-smiting, hero-healing green fire... well.

[Darth Paul]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of bringing a toddler back from being dead for 20+ years SUPER creepy?

You may count me in that number as well.

I think it's an even creepier notion to think of a brother trying to get a supernatural being (the archon) to convince the poor kid that he wants to be resurrected, leave heaven, mom, and grandpa, at an age where he's very easy to persuade, yet far able to make an informed decision.

Just let the poor kid play!!! :smallfurious:


Regardless, I think that your idea is one of the few truly original theories I've seen here in a long time, so I salute you. :smallsmile:


I'm deeply flattered. Seriously, there's blushing. :smallredface:

[Onyavar]

[...]The splices, who may have lived any time since the first world was created.

Do we even know that the splices lived on the same planet as the Order of the Stick? Ganonron especially was presented as someone who could come from a different world entirely. He actually conquered worlds. I never assumed he was a native.

[Kish]

Note the word "first" in my post. They may have lived at any time since they had somewhere to stand; there's no reason to believe that was the same world as the Order and, if the OotS world is less than two thousand years old (I seem to remember reading that somewhere...) a pretty good reason not to.

[Ruck]

Note the word "first" in my post. They may have lived at any time since they had somewhere to stand; there's no reason to believe that was the same world as the Order and, if the OotS world is less than two thousand years old (I seem to remember reading that somewhere...) a pretty good reason not to.

By available evidence (by which I mean strip #489 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0489.html)), the year is 1184.