Flying mages

[Carlobrand]

Q. What do you call a spellcaster flying on a battlefield.
A. Skeet.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Q. What do you call a spellcaster flying on a battlefield.
A. Skeet.

*Cough*Investiture of Wind*Cough*

[Dr. Cliché]

Q. What do you call a spellcaster flying on a battlefield.

A Flying Sorcerer. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Q. What do you call a spellcaster flying on a battlefield.
A. Skeet.
No more vulnerable to ranged weapons than before, really, and now immune to melee?

[JackPhoenix]

No more vulnerable to ranged weapons than before, really, and now immune to melee?

There's no cover or stealth in the sky, so yes, they are more vulnerable. But not nearly enough to negate the advantages.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

There's no cover or stealth in the sky, so yes, they are more vulnerable. But not nearly enough to negate the advantages.

And that's presuming that cover or stealth were available to them on the ground, which they often aren't.

[JackPhoenix]

And that's presuming that cover or stealth were available to them on the ground, which they often aren't.

You can use a fighter for cover (and stealth if you're a lightfoot halfling). Or drop prone for disadvantage to ranged attackers. Or drop a spell like Fog Cloud instead of concentrating on Fly. And I don't remember ever having a fight in totally empty room (which would still allow to hide outside the room) or featureless plain. Of course, many of those fights were inside buildings or underground which wouldn't allow for flying out of melee reach in the first place.

[Tanarii]

Also: Pinhead


No more vulnerable to ranged weapons than before, really, and now immune to melee?
He did say battlefield. It sounds like a easy way to get away from the 100 orcs heading your unit's your way ... only to face a hundred arrows all targeted at you personally instead.

[Mellack]

There's no cover or stealth in the sky, so yes, they are more vulnerable. But not nearly enough to negate the advantages.

Clouds, fog, smoke and darkness all still exist in the sky, so stealth is still a possibility. Even cover in some circumstances, ie hot air balloons, flying ships, griffons.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You can use a fighter for cover (and stealth if you're a lightfoot halfling). Or drop prone for disadvantage to ranged attackers. Or drop a spell like Fog Cloud instead of concentrating on Fly. And I don't remember ever having a fight in totally empty room (which would still allow to hide outside the room) or featureless plain. Of course, many of those fights were inside buildings or underground which wouldn't allow for flying out of melee reach in the first place.
But still, you're trading a potential +2/+5 vs ranged attacks for immunity to melee. Depending on the makeup of the encounter, that's quite likely to be a good choice. (And, as Mellack mentioned, there's still the possibility of airborn cover-- smoke, clouds, tall statues and buildings, etc)

[Carlobrand]

Investiture of Wind - Elemental Evil? Disadvantage to missile fire. So, what happens if you're at long range and they already have diasdvantage?

Is a battlefield. Ergo, battling companies and regiments. Ergo, lethal hardware flying in sufficient quantity that, if you're in range, your safest bet is to hope there are lots of other targets for them to choose from, 'cause a 20-sided die is not your friend when you're facing a hundred inbounds. And if you're not in range, there are only a handful of spells with range sufficient to reach your targets, all of them quite dramatically lethal but all of them quite high level.

Evolved as a joke from some experimenting I'm doing with magic and large-unit tactics - which at the moment is emerging as quite the bloodbath for conventional infantry and cavalry. Unless I make spellcasters pretty damn rare, the medieval-style clashing armies paradigm is pretty much gone in a flurry of fireballs - actually, looks a lot more like WW-II style battles. Still, the spellcasters actually do best from behind some shieldmen.

[Kane0]

Evolved as a joke from some experimenting I'm doing with magic and large-unit tactics - which at the moment is emerging as quite the bloodbath for conventional infantry and cavalry. Unless I make spellcasters pretty damn rare, the medieval-style clashing armies paradigm is pretty much gone in a flurry of fireballs - actually, looks a lot more like WW-II style battles. Still, the spellcasters actually do best from behind some shieldmen.

Reminds me of that little section in 3.5s complete warrior.

Fireball = grenade
Teleporting = paratroopers
Invisibility = stealth ops
Etc
Essentially it was a page showing examples on how magic can be used to emulate modern warfare as opposed to ye olde medieval throw-more-men-at-them style.

Which in turn reminds me of that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic quote.

[Dimolyth]

Investiture of Wind - Elemental Evil? Disadvantage to missile fire. So, what happens if you're at long range and they already have diasdvantage?

Is a battlefield. Ergo, battling companies and regiments. Ergo, lethal hardware flying in sufficient quantity that, if you're in range, your safest bet is to hope there are lots of other targets for them to choose from, 'cause a 20-sided die is not your friend when you're facing a hundred inbounds. And if you're not in range, there are only a handful of spells with range sufficient to reach your targets, all of them quite dramatically lethal but all of them quite high level.

Evolved as a joke from some experimenting I'm doing with magic and large-unit tactics - which at the moment is emerging as quite the bloodbath for conventional infantry and cavalry. Unless I make spellcasters pretty damn rare, the medieval-style clashing armies paradigm is pretty much gone in a flurry of fireballs - actually, looks a lot more like WW-II style battles. Still, the spellcasters actually do best from behind some shieldmen.

For the tactics spellcasters are exactly what they were concerned from Chainmail: they are artillery (in XVII-XIX centuries logic).
So, they want to be at "dominant height" (have line of sight to control all battlefield), they want to be protected by infantry (party tanks), they are most effective and most powerful units on battlefield, and the most glass-cannon there.
WW-II style battles have 3 dimensions, there are 3 types of aviation, there is no more demand actually to see the target for artillery, and there is definetely other methods for preparation and running of combat...

[JackPhoenix]

For the tactics spellcasters are exactly what they were concerned from Chainmail: they are artillery (in XVII-XIX centuries logic).
So, they want to be at "dominant height" (have line of sight to control all battlefield), they want to be protected by infantry (party tanks), they are most effective and most powerful units on battlefield, and the most glass-cannon there.
WW-II style battles have 3 dimensions, there are 3 types of aviation, there is no more demand actually to see the target for artillery, and there is definetely other methods for preparation and running of combat...

5e changes to magic helped there somewhat: with Concentration and no wands/scrolls everywhere, wizards can't keep whole platoons invisible. No Fly/Invisibility combo for stealth bombing, at least from one caster. Casters can't control huge armies of undead/summoned monsters (Animate Dead) forces them to burn spell slots every day to keep the army under control). Teleport is higher level spell now, while its easier to defend against (Forbiddance is a spell level lower, and it's a ritual). Fireball's range is 150 feet, not 3.5's 600'+40'/caster level, meaning the caster would have to be close enough to be threatened by archers...speaking of which, thanks to bounded accuracy, limited magic items and ability to stack buffs, even high-level characters aren't invulnerable to hundreds of normal soldiers. And spellcasters are supposed to be rare, powerful spellcasters even more so...PHB classes are intended for player characters, not for every NPC.

Magic is still powerful, but it's better balanced than before, and it's better used as a strategic asset, not for direct combat.

[Knaight]

But still, you're trading a potential +2/+5 vs ranged attacks for immunity to melee. Depending on the makeup of the encounter, that's quite likely to be a good choice. (And, as Mellack mentioned, there's still the possibility of airborn cover-- smoke, clouds, tall statues and buildings, etc)

+2/+5 are both for incomplete cover, more complete cover blocks line of sight entirely. Going airborn and losing ground cover has a pretty good chance of drastically increasing the total number of attacks that can target you, with their increased accuracy a side note.

[Dimolyth]

5e changes to magic helped there somewhat: with Concentration and no wands/scrolls everywhere, wizards can't keep whole platoons invisible. No Fly/Invisibility combo for stealth bombing, at least from one caster. Casters can't control huge armies of undead/summoned monsters (Animate Dead) forces them to burn spell slots every day to keep the army under control). Teleport is higher level spell now, while its easier to defend against (Forbiddance is a spell level lower, and it's a ritual). Fireball's range is 150 feet, not 3.5's 600'+40'/caster level, meaning the caster would have to be close enough to be threatened by archers...speaking of which, thanks to bounded accuracy, limited magic items and ability to stack buffs, even high-level characters aren't invulnerable to hundreds of normal soldiers. And spellcasters are supposed to be rare, powerful spellcasters even more so...PHB classes are intended for player characters, not for every NPC.

Magic is still powerful, but it's better balanced than before, and it's better used as a strategic asset, not for direct combat.

I`m totally agree with you. The magic now has numerous restrictions, as the artillery of XVII-XIX centuries had (precision problem, charging time, the number of consuming resources etc).
And succesfull fireball or mass suggestion has similar effect on the battlefield, as succesful fire from cannon battery.

[NNescio]

Clouds, fog, smoke and darkness all still exist in the sky, so stealth is still a possibility. Even cover in some circumstances, ie hot air balloons, flying ships, griffons.

Sou nanoka~?

(I kid. I know you meant darkness at night, instead of a sphere of Darkness in the middle of daylight.)

[Grod_The_Giant]

This is 5e, everything dies if you have a hundred people shooting at it.

[Knaight]

This is 5e, everything dies if you have a hundred people shooting at it.

All the more reason to stay low in battlefield situations, and potentially even in the small skirmishes of a dozen or so people that crop up vastly more often.

[pwykersotz]

Q. What do you call a spellcaster flying on a battlefield.
A. Skeet.

Q. What do you call the person who tries to bring down the spellcaster by hurling rocks?
A. Chuck.