Horizon Walker 6 - over-powered?

[Jay R]

So, thanks to advice from this forum, I've been playing a Horizon Tripper. (Horizon Walker/Ranger/Fighter). He has just reached Horizon Walker 6, and (or course) took the Shifting Planar Terrain Mastery. It allows him to Dimension Door every 1-4 rounds.

Does it seem to anybody else that that's extremely over-powered?

[Malroth]

You're at least lv 12 you're supposed to be able to do cool stuff all day long, If you were a clawlock you'd have been able to do that 6 levels ago while doing double your current melee damage and if you'd gone Swordsage you could do it as a swift action while still being able to work towards one of the shadow pounce prestigue classes.

[Darrin]

Does it seem to anybody else that that's extremely over-powered?

Not particularly. Unless your group happens to think monks who take Acrobatic and Improved Sunder are overpowered.

[Ceaon]

This is one of those rare fun, powerful, utility abilities that are normally only reserved for spellcasters, not martials. It's on the strong-to-overpowered side compared to the abilities you'd expect of a fighter or barbarian. It's definitely not overpowered compared to abilities of spellcasters of a similar level, although it is still a great ability because it does not run out.

[nedz]

Compared to your preceding 11 levels quite possible; but since a Swordsage can do that from level 3 (every other round), Warlock from level 6 (every round), full casters with a reserve feat from level 9 (also every round) then no - though yours does have more range than those. It's your first 11 levels which were underpowered.

It does depend upon the power level of your group though.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Dimension door a standard action, it provokes attacks of opportunity, and it ends your turn. In addition, you can only use it about twice per combat encounter, on average. Out of combat, it allows you to travel quite quickly, but only about as fast as a fast flier*, and with about the same ability to reach high-up spaces. I'd say that's hardly overpowered.


*If two out of every five rounds allow a use of dimension door, and your other standards are all regular moves (that is, you're not running), and you're covering about 1000 feet per use (CL 15), and your speed is 60' (thanks to haste or expeditious retreat or whatever), then you're moving about 2 * 1000 + 2 * 60 + 3 * 2 * 60 = 2480 feet per five rounds. That's about the same as running with a 125' fly speed, and much less than a simple polymorph + mercury wyrmling.

[Troacctid]

It would be pretty overpowered if it didn't require you to take 5 crappy levels of Horizon Walker first.

[Necroticplague]

Nope. At least three base classes have a similar thing for several levels. Totemist a have phase cloaks or blink dog masks, warlocks have flee the scene, swordsages have at least three teleporting maneuvers as extraordinary abilities without the teleport descriptor. There are outsiders that get greater teleport/teleport without error as at-will SLAs you can call, summon, or play as. It's a cool little trick, but nothing overpowered. I'd argue simply having a burrow speed is more useful.

[ericgrau]

No, 5 levels of suck to do something you can nearly replicate with a wand and/or travel items or some such isn't that special. Plus all the ways others have mentioned to do it with build. Maybe it's over-powered for 1 individual level or compared to the other 5 levels of abilities. Actually I think horizon walker is the least special part of horizon tripper, and everything else is what makes it playable. You could do the whole thing with another PrC and do nicely, often better. Plus maybe some utility items for level 12+ transport.

[Jay R]

Compared to your preceding 11 levels quite possible; but since a Swordsage can do that from level 3 (every other round), Warlock from level 6 (every round), full casters with a reserve feat from level 9 (also every round) then no - though yours does have more range than those. It's your first 11 levels which were underpowered.

It does depend upon the power level of your group though.

What Feat lets a wizard cast a fourth level spell every six seconds all day long?

Edit: OK, I found Dimensional Jaunt. It's not as powerful, but yes, I see what it can do.

I've used Gustav's ability twice, both times to get past barriers that normally would have stopped him completely. It just seemed like a huge change to what was possible for the character.

[eggynack]

Don't forget exalted wild shape for blink dog form. From 9th level (or 8th if you have vow of poverty), you can dimension door 720 feet every round, as a free action, with the ability to do whatever you want after teleporting. You don't even provoke AoO's, cause it's a supernatural ability. Makes the shifting planar terrain mastery look delightfully quaint by comparison. As for your assertion that it's a big change to what your character is capable of, yes, it is. That's why you took the class, or at least a big reason why.

[nedz]

I've used Gustav's ability twice, both times to get past barriers that normally would have stopped him completely. It just seemed like a huge change to what was possible for the character.

Horizon Walker 1-5 is quite good for the skill boosts: in a low tier game which favours that style of play. In other games, like ones with casters, not so much. There are several low level spells which give +10 to various skills.

Horizon Walker 6-8 are the solid levels: Shifting, Aligned and Cavernous: after that you are done.

I can see that Shifting is a big step for this character, but it's only OP in a low tier campaign.

[justiceforall]

For my own interest - why is
Aligned so good? The planar perspective, or is there a high concentration of alignment dependent spell like abilities once you hit that sort of level?

[Necroticplague]

For my own interest - why is so good? The planar perspective, or is there a high concentration of alignment dependent spell like abilities once you hit that sort of level?

1. A lot of planes have alignment traits. All the inner planes (mildly neutral), the vast majority of outer planes (all over the spectrum based on plane), and probably quiet a few demiplanes.
2. At higher levels, there are a lot of outsiders available as enemies. A whole lot of higher level outsiders have alignment-targeting SLAs (like Blasphemy).
3. Even discounting/ questioning how common said effects are, said effects can be very nasty, so being able to no-sell them is still useful.

[The Glyphstone]

For my own interest - why is so good? The planar perspective, or is there a high concentration of alignment dependent spell like abilities once you hit that sort of level?

Not a high concentration, but the tiny handful that exist are some of the most powerful no-save-incapacitation effects in the game - Holy Word and its cousins, which you just NOPE with Aligned.

[nedz]

Not a high concentration, but the tiny handful that exist are some of the most powerful no-save-incapacitation effects in the game - Holy Word and its cousins, which you just NOPE with Aligned.

this, and the previous post

Blasphemy may only be one (five) spell(s) but it gets used quite a lot.

There are other spells too which this counters, but this is the big one.

It's very hard to get resistance to.

[justiceforall]

Cool. I really like the Horizon Walker class as an idea in general (even down to the Fire Res/Frost Res levels) so its good to know that there is another great planar level in aligned.

It's a pity about the first five levels, although I do not hate Desert and Underground (they are meh, but hey it's a mundane class...).



OP have you by any chance dipped monk and taken Sun School feat? Getting to trip when you shunt around is extra fun (its also great with Knight 3 too).