Soloing Pathfinder Adventure Path's... is it possible?

[Krazzman]

Starting with Hell's Vengeance, my wife and I thought about trying to use the AP's for solo campaigns, dividing them into: I DM it, my wife DM's it or one of us DM's it for our group.

The "Soloing" though is the one way we will most likely play the most of them.

I'd like some input on what to keep watch of, what rules to establish to even be able to make it through them and some more.

Here are our/my thoughts about what to do:
Character generation will be done in Tristalt with the bonus of adding the base Skillpoint gain of two of your classes instead of taking the best.
Stat Array: 18 18 16 16 14 14.
Every race played will be "redone" via the Race Generator to have 20 points + Fast Healing.
Starting HP is 3 times the maximum HD + con-mod.
2 Traits + 1 campaign Trait.

Are we missing something? How hard should I adjust an encounter? How should I adjust WBL, if I even should adjust it and just roll with her getting the loot normally designed for 4 players?

[Florian]

Soloing will be nearly impossible unless you change each and every encounter.
Would´t it be more practical to create a very simple to handle group of 3 characters and work based on this?

[Krazzman]

Soloing will be nearly impossible unless you change each and every encounter.
Would´t it be more practical to create a very simple to handle group of 3 characters and work based on this?

I thought about going the "Leadership" route. Giving her a Cohort at 2nd Level as well as some other supporting NPC's. Hell's Vengeance, at least Book 1, Part 1 looks soloable enough.

[Florian]

I thought about going the "Leadership" route. Giving her a Cohort at 2nd Level as well as some other supporting NPC's. Hell's Vengeance, at least Book 1, Part 1 looks soloable enough.

Part two will have some tough combos to crack, like multiple fighter mooks supported by a in-combat heal/buff cleric or fully fledged archons later on, when the aura can be pretty crippling.

[LTwerewolf]

Depends on the class she takes really. Some will have an easier time than others. Any class that uses summoning as their schtick for example will have fewer problems because they have other things to take hits that are essentially renewable resources. Druids, clerics, wizards, summoners, etc.

[Elder_Basilisk]

I don't think soloing is really practical in general, but I don't see the adventure paths as being more challenging than any other adventure designed for 4 or so adventurers.

I think the basic formula for soloing would be:

1. Flexible class. Vigilante, bard, magus, inquisitor, etc can cover multiple roles in a party. A character that isn't locked into one approach to problems and that is not fragile if caught by surprise (straight wizard has lots of tools for unconventional approaches but tends to fold like a pointy cloth hat if caught in a disadvantageous position--especially at lower levels; they tend to be powerful but fragile).
2. Non-standard approach to the adventures. A committed stealth or diplomatic approach that avoided several encounters and neutered others is probably more amenable to soloing than kicking in the door. Likewise, creative solutions like locking blocking the doors and burning the bad guys in encounter 5 A: Flammable wooden barn to death is probably going to work better than trying to fight them conventionally.
3. Leadership.
4. Extensive use of NPC allies, planar ally/planar binding spells, etc.

[SorenKnight]

Yes, I think it can be done, but a lot would depend on action economy. You would absolutely need some way to get more actions, hopefully coupled with a way to make your enemies waste theirs. Minionmancy is probably the easiest way of doing this.

[Krazzman]

Part two will have some tough combos to crack, like multiple fighter mooks supported by a in-combat heal/buff cleric or fully fledged archons later on, when the aura can be pretty crippling.

Hmm... ok, will watch out for that one. But with level 2 she should have her cohort (in story reason for the pledge, probably.).


Depends on the class she takes really. Some will have an easier time than others. Any class that uses summoning as their schtick for example will have fewer problems because they have other things to take hits that are essentially renewable resources. Druids, clerics, wizards, summoners, etc.

Build is: Cleric of Zon-Kuthon//Investigator//Anti-Paladin Tyrant.



I don't think soloing is really practical in general, but I don't see the adventure paths as being more challenging than any other adventure designed for 4 or so adventurers.

I think the basic formula for soloing would be:

1. Flexible class. Vigilante, bard, magus, inquisitor, etc can cover multiple roles in a party. A character that isn't locked into one approach to problems and that is not fragile if caught by surprise (straight wizard has lots of tools for unconventional approaches but tends to fold like a pointy cloth hat if caught in a disadvantageous position--especially at lower levels; they tend to be powerful but fragile).
2. Non-standard approach to the adventures. A committed stealth or diplomatic approach that avoided several encounters and neutered others is probably more amenable to soloing than kicking in the door. Likewise, creative solutions like locking blocking the doors and burning the bad guys in encounter 5 A: Flammable wooden barn to death is probably going to work better than trying to fight them conventionally.
3. Leadership.
4. Extensive use of NPC allies, planar ally/planar binding spells, etc.

I think Vile Leadership at level 2 might be quite good for her. Since I can't imagine a Zon-Kuthon Priest who isn't at least cruel on a small scale.
Also rule of cool will prevail everything at least when I DM.

We talked about a Stealth approach of basically being the best assassin there is and my wife just does not like to run that way. She thought about going Primal Hunter or Summoner but decided against it since she felt she pushed too much into one character.

[ZeroiaSD]

My thoughts are twofold.


One, make the character Mythic. It gives a bit of an edge without having to simply be higher level, and makes her a bit better equipped for solo'ing. Better initiative means less likely to be surprised, harder to kill means a loss is more likely to be a capture than a kill. Also means that the top-end of the adventure path aren't in danger of being out of reach.


Two, Master Summoner. Or something else that has companions- they help balance the action economy.

[SorenKnight]

One, make the character Mythic. It gives a bit of an edge without having to simply be higher level, and makes her a bit better equipped for solo'ing. Better initiative means less likely to be surprised, harder to kill means a loss is more likely to be a capture than a kill. Also means that the top-end of the adventure path aren't in danger of being out of reach.

If you do for Mythic don't go for the higher tiers. Tiers 1-3 might help boost a character, but as soon as you hit fifth tier it starts eliminating non-mythic enemies as meaningful threats.

[ZeroiaSD]

If you do for Mythic don't go for the higher tiers. Tiers 1-3 might help boost a character, but as soon as you hit fifth tier it starts eliminating non-mythic enemies as meaningful threats.

Yea, and it makes sense to stop at whatever tier, and only do level advancement from there.


Tier 1 provides the 'if you're knocked unconscious, you won't bleed out,' ability.

Tier 2 provides the 'your initiative is great, you're unlikely to be taken down before you can act,' ability.

Tier 3 provides the 'you can recuperate on your own,' ability, which has obvious uses when there's no party healer.

Then I'd stop there, maybe toss in tier 4 later on if there's just a desire for more power.

Even just the first tier'll help survivability, what with mythic surges to help reduce the effects of bad rolls, and the mythic path abilities, so one can test it out with that and see if more is needed.

[Florian]

I´d be careful with Tier 3, tho. That´s where planar binding as SLA comes in...

[Krazzman]

Never bothered with mythic before. Might look into it.

She currently has fly at will as an sla and constant detect secret doors.
Her race gives her:
see in darkness
+2 on wis and cha
+2 will saves
Constant spell like divination (secret doors)
SLA at-will fly
DR5/Silber
Fast healing 1

Thanks for the replies.

[Enguebert]

Soloing has one huge drawback :

Save or Die/ Save or be neutralized will end the campaign on an unlucky roll.
On the other hand, sneaking and avoiding fight is easier solo

If there is only one player, the solution could be having two (or more) characters : a knight and his aid, or a cleric and his bodyguard,...
So if one character goes down on an unlucky roll, the second char can still win the fight and save the main char

[ZeroiaSD]

I´d be careful with Tier 3, tho. That´s where planar binding as SLA comes in...

One could always say no to specific choices until the game reaches a level where that'd be appropriate.

[Krazzman]

We just finished the first Part. She is level 2 now.

I have looked up Mystic stuff (just a little bit) but... I don't know which Path I should give her. I looked up the 1st-level powers and have to say those are "insane" on quite a few scales. Found the Holy Sybolcrafting one from the Heirophant quite nice.

[ZeroiaSD]

We just finished the first Part. She is level 2 now.

I have looked up Mystic stuff (just a little bit) but... I don't know which Path I should give her. I looked up the 1st-level powers and have to say those are "insane" on quite a few scales. Found the Holy Sybolcrafting one from the Heirophant quite nice.


Yea, that's a good one for making sure you're never without a holy symbol.

Hierophant is the divine one, so it's the most logical and the strongest for her cleric stuff. Guardian is survivability, and Champion is smashing stuff for her Anti-Paladin component.

[Psyren]

If you want to solo, I'd suggest gestalt - that will give you a better chassis to operate alone (or alongside a pet, as the case may be) without being too weak or too strong for the AP. I'd also give you bonus hit points since you're probably going to get focus-fired.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'd go with the Gestalt + DM Controlled Cohort + Awesome Animal Companion/Mount route. The gestalt main character would be the workhorse of the group, and obviously receive the spotlight. A DM controlled cohort would give her something to bounce RP off of, but be tailored to be a cohort, not a full on character. The Animal sidekick would give her a secondary character, but one that would hopefully be easier to build and advance and be out of the way when talking to NPCs. It's only a three member party, but it should aid with SoS's and action economy.

[Krazzman]

Yea, that's a good one for making sure you're never without a holy symbol.

Hierophant is the divine one, so it's the most logical and the strongest for her cleric stuff. Guardian is survivability, and Champion is smashing stuff for her Anti-Paladin component.

I asked her and she said: the main point is the clerical side. Guess who will have a vision of his god... Any recommendations for a follower of Zon-Kuthon on mystical abilities?


If you want to solo, I'd suggest gestalt - that will give you a better chassis to operate alone (or alongside a pet, as the case may be) without being too weak or too strong for the AP. I'd also give you bonus hit points since you're probably going to get focus-fired.

We are using "Tristalt" (Cleric//Investigator//Antipaladin) and her first HD was trippled as well as getting Full HP every level.


I'd go with the Gestalt + DM Controlled Cohort + Awesome Animal Companion/Mount route. The gestalt main character would be the workhorse of the group, and obviously receive the spotlight. A DM controlled cohort would give her something to bounce RP off of, but be tailored to be a cohort, not a full on character. The Animal sidekick would give her a secondary character, but one that would hopefully be easier to build and advance and be out of the way when talking to NPCs. It's only a three member party, but it should aid with SoS's and action economy.

Starting from level 2 on she and the AP-NPC Cimri will take vows of service for House Thrune (or Archbaron Fex). As such Cimri (Currently a Rogue1/Warrior1) will be her Cohort for now.
Her first plan was Cleric//Summoner//Slayer but ditched that for the one mentioned above because she was running in circles between Summoner, Hunter, Investigator and some more. In the end her combination prevailed because that was the one most fitting.

For level 2 she already broke WBL having roughly 2500 GP worth in items (equip, potions and gold).

Any recommendations on how to further "build" Cimri? She is a dirty fighting dagger/kukri wielder and apparently can use poisons.
I thought about retraining her Warrior level for something more fitting or just going for 2 levels of Rogue for now so she can "use poison".

[Psyren]

We are using "Tristalt" (Cleric//Investigator//Antipaladin) and her first HD was trippled as well as getting Full HP every level.

Then I suggest trying it before making further changes. If it looks like she's getting creamed, have something contrive the encounter away - a predetermined signal like a bell or whistle calls the monster back, or the city guard bursts in the door, or she "blacks out" and then wakes up held prisoner or something. But your quickest way to get a better idea of what else needs changing (if anything) is just to play the game.

[ZeroiaSD]

I asked her and she said: the main point is the clerical side. Guess who will have a vision of his god... Any recommendations for a follower of Zon-Kuthon on mystical abilities?


Ok, then definitely Hierophant.

Of Hierophant's Divine Surge features, Inspired Spell is just better, since it allows metamagic.

Here's a short list of mythic abilities to consider-

Symbol of the Holy (the one to make holy symbols on the fly) is pretty useful for someone who may have reason to hide their deific allegiance but still have a holy symbol quickly when needed.

Faith's Reach is simple but helpful- allows touch spells to be used at 30 feet. Good for keeping out of harm's way or just reaching out and touching where you aren't.

Legendary item is a flavorful one. Gives a high-powered weapon or other item.

Flexible counterspell is what it sounds like- makes counter spelling easy. Solid defensive ability.

Eldritch Breach, flipside, helps dealing with pesky spell resistance.


And of course, Mythic Spellcasting (which can be taken as a tier power or feat), to gain access to the mythic versions of a few spells (each time you take it, you get one spell for each tier). There's not a lot of great Mythic Cleric spells at low-level, but Mythic Bane is both really good and fitting for a Zon-Kuthon follower.

Going for extra mythic points is a reasonable thing to do as well, since at low-tier the amount available isn't overwhelming.

[DrMartin]

Soloing an adventure path means that your player will face some of the challenges that usually boss monsters face - for one, action economy disadvantage. So you could look into some of the solutions that have been developed over time to make single boss encounters more challenging and adapt them to your player.

I am partial to the bifurcated, two headed, two tailed snake by the angry GM (google it): the character is in fact two characters, she gets two sets of actions in combat, and two pools of hp. when one of the two hp pools is depleted, one of the two characters "dies": all the negative status effects affecting the character are purged, and she loses one set of actions.

[ZeroiaSD]

Soloing an adventure path means that your player will face some of the challenges that usually boss monsters face - for one, action economy disadvantage. So you could look into some of the solutions that have been developed over time to make single boss encounters more challenging and adapt them to your player.

That is one of the thing that Mythic helps with- the counterspell ability I mentioned in the prior post? That's an immediate action, so in addition to what other action one may want to do.

[Krazzman]

Just now being able to reply.


Then I suggest trying it before making further changes. If it looks like she's getting creamed, have something contrive the encounter away - a predetermined signal like a bell or whistle calls the monster back, or the city guard bursts in the door, or she "blacks out" and then wakes up held prisoner or something. But your quickest way to get a better idea of what else needs changing (if anything) is just to play the game.

Will have wait for that for know. Part 1 of Book 1 is played, I haven't actually read through part 2 due to deadlines blocking it. It worked far better than expected, she accrued in the 4 encounter's 0 HP damage and 0 Rebellion Points.


Ok, then definitely Hierophant.

Of Hierophant's Divine Surge features, Inspired Spell is just better, since it allows metamagic.

Here's a short list of mythic abilities to consider-

Symbol of the Holy (the one to make holy symbols on the fly) is pretty useful for someone who may have reason to hide their deific allegiance but still have a holy symbol quickly when needed.

Faith's Reach is simple but helpful- allows touch spells to be used at 30 feet. Good for keeping out of harm's way or just reaching out and touching where you aren't.

Legendary item is a flavorful one. Gives a high-powered weapon or other item.

Flexible counterspell is what it sounds like- makes counter spelling easy. Solid defensive ability.

Eldritch Breach, flipside, helps dealing with pesky spell resistance.


And of course, Mythic Spellcasting (which can be taken as a tier power or feat), to gain access to the mythic versions of a few spells (each time you take it, you get one spell for each tier). There's not a lot of great Mythic Cleric spells at low-level, but Mythic Bane is both really good and fitting for a Zon-Kuthon follower.

Going for extra mythic points is a reasonable thing to do as well, since at low-tier the amount available isn't overwhelming.

I have to admit, only being able to use PFSRD and Masterwork Tools (Android App).
But I thought about Mythic Power Attack, Inspired Spell and Legendary Item (Zon-Kuthon's chain). Have yet to understand Legendary Item fully though.


Soloing an adventure path means that your player will face some of the challenges that usually boss monsters face - for one, action economy disadvantage. So you could look into some of the solutions that have been developed over time to make single boss encounters more challenging and adapt them to your player.

I am partial to the bifurcated, two headed, two tailed snake by the angry GM (google it): the character is in fact two characters, she gets two sets of actions in combat, and two pools of hp. when one of the two hp pools is depleted, one of the two characters "dies": all the negative status effects affecting the character are purged, and she loses one set of actions.

Haven't had time to google it but damn that sounds hilarious. Action economy is my greatest concern after the active powercreep we focused on those first level, race and class combination...


That is one of the thing that Mythic helps with- the counterspell ability I mentioned in the prior post? That's an immediate action, so in addition to what other action one may want to do.

This would help, I assume. I really like it but I think a signature weapon "early" on will be awesome.

[ZeroiaSD]

I have to admit, only being able to use PFSRD and Masterwork Tools (Android App).
But I thought about Mythic Power Attack, Inspired Spell and Legendary Item (Zon-Kuthon's chain). Have yet to understand Legendary Item fully though.


Mythic Power Attack is a nice damage-add, yea. Inspired spell's a gimme.

Legendary Item basically gives the item 3 abilities and it's own pool of points ('legendary points') that work pretty much like mythic points, just for the weapon's abilities. It's more bookkeeping, but can be fairly strong.


Haven't had time to google it but damn that sounds hilarious. Action economy is my greatest concern after the active powercreep we focused on those first level, race and class combination...



This would help, I assume. I really like it but I think a signature weapon "early" on will be awesome.[/QUOTE]