Bypassing Fire immunity

[flappeercraft]

Right now im making an orber build that uses orb of fire as a main spell and I want to know about any way I can bypass fire immunity. I know about searing spell and is my current solution to this problem but the thing is that it only bypasses 50% of the damage. Is there any way to completely bypass this or at least more than 50%?

[Zanos]

IIRC, a one level dip into Sanctified One of Kord will lose a caster level, but turn all of your fire damage into divine damage.

[Jowgen]

I believe the Sanctified One PrC (Complete Champion) can do it if you worship Kord and choose Holy Fire.


... NVM

[ExLibrisMortis]

There's also the Silver Pyromancer, which is for LG casters only, and requires Turn Undead. You lose a caster level, but after five levels in the PrC, you can convert all fire damage to holy damage. You also get all paladin spells added to your arcane list, right from level 1, and you can use your character level as your caster level for [fire] spells.

[flappeercraft]

Yeah i dont think this will work out all the party is evil and we all worship hextor and live in an empire based on extremist hextorians

[flappeercraft]

I just checked sanctified one and I think Ill ask my dm if we can homebrew a version of Hextor with the fire dmg ability from kord but evil aligned

[SethoMarkus]

May I ask why you need to overcome fire immunity specifically with fire spells? Only asking because the typical solution to overcoming an enemy with Fire Immunity is to use a non-Fire spell.

That being said, I believe Hellfire spell from Fiendish Codex II would be on interest. A "fire" spell that does not deal Fire damage, explicitly stating that Fire Resistance does not affect the spell's damage.

[flappeercraft]

The reason for this is that I made a build around Orb of Fire spell SpC that does 405 dmg per round and the only problem is fire immunity. The solution I have now is the feat Searing spell but that gets rid of only 50% immunity not all so im looking for ways to optimize even further

[SethoMarkus]

Hmm, that would be an issue if you specialized and optimized around one spell... Other than ones stated, I can't think of anything else around the issue.

(At first I was under the impression that you were playing an orb focused Elemental Savant.)

[flappeercraft]

Atm the one problem is the fire immunity which I can still do good damage to with this build but it seriously hinders it. Everything else is covered except for this so thats why im so worried about this

[ATHATH]

One of Tempest_Stormwind's Weekly Optimization Showcases had a character that was built around having unblockable fire damage.

[Bobby Baratheon]

The metamagic feat Searing Spell still does half damage to things with fire immunity, and ignores Fire Resistance IIRC. It's a +1 metamagic adjustment, too. Very feasible and effective, and cheap.

[gooddragon1]

The reason for this is that I made a build around Orb of Fire spell SpC that does 405 dmg per round and the only problem is fire immunity. The solution I have now is the feat Searing spell but that gets rid of only 50% immunity not all so im looking for ways to optimize even further

Sacred Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#sacredSpell)

Benefit

Half of the damage dealt by a sacred spell results directly from divine power and is therefore not subject to being reduced by protection from energy or similar magic. The other half of the damage dealt by the spell is as normal. A sacred spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Only divine spells can be cast as sacred spells.

If it doesn't have to be fire: Energy Substitution


Energy Substitution [Metamagic]
Prerequisites

Any other metamagic feat, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks.
Benefit

You choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. When employing a spell with the acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic designator, you can modify the spell to use your chosen type of energy instead. The altered spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level.

The altered spell works normally in all respects except the type of damage dealt.
Special

You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time the feat applies to a different type of energy.

[Crake]

If it doesn't have to be fire: Energy Substitution

I was also going to suggest energy substitution, since clearly OP has focused his efforts specifically around the orb of fire spell, through I imagine arcane thesis or the like. Worth noting that the version gooddragon1 quoted is an old version, and sonic is no longer an available option to change the energy type to, only acid, cold, electricity or fire.

[flappeercraft]

Bobby like I told previously im aware of searing spell im just looking to see if there are better alternatives

[flappeercraft]

ATHATH can I please have the link? searched for it and didnt find it.

[Douglas]

It doesn't kick in until somewhat high level, but a level of Archmage with Mastery of Elements would let you cast the same spell but change the energy type on the fly as needed, even to the rarely resisted sonic type.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Well... one way to make the 50% clause of Searing Spell irrelevant is to make your overwhelming attack do twice as much fire damage as necessary. Typical mailman spells like Arcane Fusion and Arcane Spellsurge help here.

Of course, there are other ways to negate orbs. Beware of Friendly Fire (EoE) and Ray Deflection (SpC), the former especially. You might want to have some dispelling effects at the ready.

[ben-zayb]

I'm not sure whether the wording allows for it, but can't you combine Searing Spell with City Magic in such a way that creatures with immunity to fire will be dealt half the spell's fire damage and the other half with city damage?

[ayvango]

You could use archmage class feature to substitute fire damage with other elemental damage for at the time you cast a spell. Unless you target is immune to all elemental damage it would work.

[flappeercraft]

What about taking a flaw and getting corrupt spell? that would get 75% damage without any resistances or immunities being able to stop this damage. As an alternative I could take energy subtitution but couldn't someone have immunities/resistances to all elements? The reason im not sure about energy substitution is that with this build I focus on doing damage with orb of fire so if they have resistances to everything else I cant go through that if I have energy subtitution

[Andorn]

Okay, I have to ask, how do you get a spell that is capped at 15d6 to do 405 points of damage? Are you using greater arcane fusion to cast two spells at once? Or arcane spellsurge, to cast multiple spells in 1 round?

Hmm, so, maximized and empowered 15d6 = 135 points. Times 3 is 405? Is that it?

What do you do when you run out of spell slots?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Okay, I have to ask, how do you get a spell that is capped at 15d6 to do 405 points of damage? Are you using greater arcane fusion to cast two spells at once? Or arcane spellsurge, to cast multiple spells in 1 round?

Hmm, so, maximized and empowered 15d6 = 135 points. Times 3 is 405? Is that it?

What do you do when you run out of spell slots?
That sounds like the solution, but a maximized empowered orb is 116,25 damage on average, not 135. Empower and maximize don't affect eachother, so you get 15 * 3,5 = 52,5 average damage maximized to 90, and half of that added by empower.

[Crake]

Okay, I have to ask, how do you get a spell that is capped at 15d6 to do 405 points of damage? Are you using greater arcane fusion to cast two spells at once? Or arcane spellsurge, to cast multiple spells in 1 round?

Hmm, so, maximized and empowered 15d6 = 135 points. Times 3 is 405? Is that it?

What do you do when you run out of spell slots?

I assume there's also some twinned/repeat spell shenannigans going on in there. Assuming the target gets dazed by just 1 of the orbs flying out, he'll be there ready to be hit again by the next volley. You're looking at 4 orbs per casting, 8 if you arcane fusion, 15d6 per hit, assuming no other metamagic, that's 420 damage if they all hit.

[ATHATH]

ATHATH can I please have the link? searched for it and didnt find it.
Here it is: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471372-Weekly(-)-Optimization-Showcase-Holy-Fire-(Tempest_Stormwind)

[Deox]

A possible path could be involving Binder / Anima Mage.

Bind Astaroth (Dragon 357) and it'll grant you the Blackflame ability which will turn all spells, spell-likes and magic item abilities with the fire descriptor into half vile damage.

[flappeercraft]

For the 405 damage i quick cast energy vulnerability (fire) with irresistible spell. (I get automatic quicken to abjuration spells 3rd level or lower not including metamagic due to 5 abjurant champion levels) and then I cast a orb of fire that is empowered, maximized, twinned and searing spell. so 15 * 6 = 90 90 * 2 = 180 180 * 1.5 = 270 and finally due to energy vulnerability 270 * 1.5 = 405. About spell slots in my campaign we use a spell points from unearthed arcana but a bit edited to fit our campaign and not make it op as hell for casters.

Also thank you HATHATH

[flappeercraft]

Guys by the way in case you ask questions about how I do something keep in mind the build is Fighter 1/ Wizard 14/ Abjurant Champion 5 So I cant ise some spells like arcane fusion. Also im concentrating on the spell casting side of things, I took fighter for proficiencies, improved initiative as a bonus feat and to get the prequesites for abjurant champion without needing another feat.

[ayvango]

Guys by the way in case you ask questions about how I do something keep in mind the build is Fighter 1/ Wizard 14/ Abjurant Champion 5 So I cant ise some spells like arcane fusion.
You could also gain martial weapon proficiency from the otherworldly feat that made you outsider(native). Or you could make single level dip into the Dragon Slayer class. You could use single level in cleric with the war or metal domain and take time domain to gain free improved initiative. Or you could take magic domain and become dweomerkeeper: Cleric 1/ Wizard 4/ Dweomerkeeper 10/ Abjurant Champion 5.

[flappeercraft]

Well its too late I already took the fighter level. My first level was fighter for the extra hp. Also I wanted proficiency with composite longbow to use as my primary weapon (Although spells will always be main instead of weapons) and also armor proficiency so I can use a 0% ASF armor for AC instead of wasting spell points (unearthed arcana rule) in mage armor or the like. Then again the extra feat is also good and I dont want to take Iron will and dodge as feats to qualify I could put better use into those with improving my build.

[Crake]

For the 405 damage i quick cast energy vulnerability (fire) with irresistible spell. (I get automatic quicken to abjuration spells 3rd level or lower not including metamagic due to 5 abjurant champion levels) and then I cast a orb of fire that is empowered, maximized, twinned and searing spell. so 15 * 6 = 90 90 * 2 = 180 180 * 1.5 = 270 and finally due to energy vulnerability 270 * 1.5 = 405. About spell slots in my campaign we use a spell points from unearthed arcana but a bit edited to fit our campaign and not make it op as hell for casters.

Also thank you HATHATH

As someone else already mentioned, maximize and empower do not stack like that. You would get 90+15d6/2, which on average is 26.25, so 116.25, twinned and with energy vulnerability you're looking at 348.75 damage on average. Also, are you aware that irresistible spell was errataed to simply give the DC+10, not actually remove the save?

[flappeercraft]

Ok dood ill just double check to be sure but if it is right (probably is) my mistake. Also about irresistible spell my dm just though +4 for +10 dc was bs so he uses as it was before.

Edit: I just checked and when stacking multipliers you are right as empower spell does count for that but energy vulnerability spell counts as a value not as a multiplier even though its the same bonus to damage it makes it not stack but be a thing separate. As with empower and maximize I didnt find anything of it working either way mentioned so according to my DM we are just gonna use the way we are used to unless we find something that specifies it to be a set way.

[ATHATH]

Well its too late I already took the fighter level. My first level was fighter for the extra hp. Also I wanted proficiency with composite longbow to use as my primary weapon (Although spells will always be main instead of weapons) and also armor proficiency so I can use a 0% ASF armor for AC instead of wasting spell points (unearthed arcana rule) in mage armor or the like. Then again the extra feat is also good and I dont want to take Iron will and dodge as feats to qualify I could put better use into those with improving my build.
You can get the Iron Will feat without using up a feat slot by paying 3,000 GP to visit the Otyugh Hole, by the way.

[Douglas]

As with empower and maximize I didnt find anything of it working either way mentioned so according to my DM we are just gonna use the way we are used to unless we find something that specifies it to be a set way.
It's in the Maximize Spell feat description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#maximizeSpell).

[flappeercraft]

Thats weird I dont remember reading that before, I should probably read the PhB again to refresh my memory

[Brunks]

If you were a sorcerer you could take the 5th level planar substitution (PlH, pg 35).
This turns half of your energy damage in force damage. It should stack with Searing Spell, for a total of 75% damage.

[Andorn]

Hmm, isn't there some feat or ability that turns half of your damage into raw, untyped arcane damage?

[Asmotherion]

Right now im making an orber build that uses orb of fire as a main spell and I want to know about any way I can bypass fire immunity. I know about searing spell and is my current solution to this problem but the thing is that it only bypasses 50% of the damage. Is there any way to completely bypass this or at least more than 50%?

You could always take energy substitution and energy admixture fire (nothing prevents you from admixing fire with fire), and Put Searing spell on top.

It's not cost effective, but this does give you 100% damage (50%+50%) on an imune foe.

If you just want an ability that gives you interesting Untyped Damage, the Archmage has Arcane Fire, which can be good or abysmal depending on how your DM rules Class levels (including or excluding your non Archmage class levels; the wording is a bit ambiguous). It's also unclear (to me) whether Spell Resistance applies to it; I'll let more qualified people clearify this.

Other than that, I'll just add my small comment that, IMO the best kind of Mailman/Blaster build is the Warlock. Deals Untyped damage, and can use an invocation to bypass SR/AMFs. True Casters can do lots more than just dealing HP damage. Conjure/Planar Bind yourself an Army, and if you want, take searing spell and call it a day. Maybe some Reserve Feat like Acidic Splatter or Fiery Burst too, just in case you run low on spell slots, if you feel using a Crosbow is an insult to your magic.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: how about bypassing immunity to Thread Necromancy?