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Sophistemon
2005-08-02, 04:33 PM
As you may or may not know, Sean Howard (often referred to as 'Squidi') has decided to discontinue his Webcomic due to the hostility he has had to deal with on the internet. His lasted blog, which describes the reasons of his leaving and his feelings on the subject can be found on his homepage, located here: http://squidi.net/. I am sorry if most of you already knew all of this, but I felt that it was my duty to inform you of the fall of such a great comic. I would encourage you all to attempt to contact Sean, but I fear that he has irrevocably made up his mind. Goodbye, A Modest Destiny. Goodbye, Mr. Howard. And good luck to you both.

McDeath
2005-08-03, 05:12 PM
Yes, despite what many people on the 'net *cough* PA *cough* have said, A Modest Destiny was a decent comic with some good character development. I am truly sad that people being idiots on the Internet has forced him to shut down Squidi.

So long Sean, and thanks for all the fish.

egomann
2005-08-03, 05:42 PM
It was a decent comic, but it was overshadowed by it's creator.

Sophistemon
2005-08-03, 06:58 PM
I am forced to agree. Though we must be fair in this; he would not have been so outspoken had he not had a reason to be. Unfortunately, I believe that the same zeal that was used to protect his comic ended up consuming it and causing its downfall.

Starbuck_II
2005-08-03, 07:29 PM
I salute you Modest Destiny! *salute*

I blame the baby ;D (JK)

Sophistemon
2005-08-03, 10:36 PM
The baby did add more concerns to Sean's already hefty plate, but nobody can blame a baby for being a baby. I hate the fact that the ending to this story, the one that he'll tell his children, is: 'And then I got fed up with the internet in general and shut the site down.' I can understand his reasons (he was tired, I think, of the constant strain that the business thrust onto him) but I have trouble accepting that fact that he took the coward's way out. It is his life, of course, and thus his to live as he wills, but the whole thing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

grim_chook
2005-08-04, 01:09 AM
Where OOTS is my favorite AMD was certainly a close second. I shall miss these comics dearly and think no good of PA, fast becoming a Microsoft of the webcomic world! :P

Bogardan_Mage
2005-08-04, 02:54 AM
I really wish this sort of thing would stop happening to things I like. Damn you all who stood in Squidi's way! Please, Rich, don't you do anything like this (well, if you must, but give adequate warning). I wouldn't be able to stand it.

abadguy
2005-08-04, 05:32 AM
Well, Mr Howard simply let his head grow too big, with all the sycophants in the forums stoking his ego. Tried to pull a publicity stunt and failed miserably and now he's stuffed his head back in the sand. I enjoy his comic but not his antics. Really sad he had decided to quit but at the end of it all, he was asking for it. I'm sure he'll be back when things settle down at home.

yrro
2005-08-04, 07:24 AM
Yeah, I love his comic, but I don't really think he's quite justified in demonizing PA the way he did.

From what I've seen, he's really really touchy about just about everything, including his copyright. Whereas the PA guys... pretty much don't care. I can see them not caring right up until the moment he threatened to sue, at which point I can understand not liking him much. And in any case, from what I understand, they never really took direct action against him, aside from one negative comment when he, you know, threatened to sue them. It's just that there are a lot of jerks in the world, some of whom seem to like penny arcade.

That's just kind of the way squidi is, is my impression from reading his blogs. He's a great author, but he almost everything else he writes seems to be almost directly aimed at ticking off anyone else in the comics community - whereas most comic authors tend to mention the comics they feel are great and should be read, he tends to go off on how inferior so many are because they don't appeal to *his* grand idea of what a comic should be about.

I dunno, I'm not surprised at all that he seems to be the black sheep of the community, with or without the PA suit.

But still, AMD was a great comic, and shall be greatly missed.

Hzurr
2005-08-04, 10:22 AM
I really enjoyed the comic. A lot. It was funny, and very well written.

I nearly had to stop reading it, however, because of the blogs. At first it didn't bother me, but many of the later ones really got me upset, simply because squidi would have driven me crazy in real life (He's intolerent, and so far left it gives my neck a crick).

However...that was a superb webcomic. I'm sad to see it go.

Wren
2005-08-04, 11:31 AM
He created the hostility himself. If he can't take that, then fine. What he gets for being a drama queen.

I only really enjoyed his earlier comics, although his more recent stuff wasn't that bad either.

To those who say other people closed down his comic.. wrong. He did it himself, he chose to. Who cares if random joe X sends him a stupid email? Deleted. So what if someone makes a stupid comment on his forum? Deleted (after getting flamed to death). He still had a large and loyal fanbase who had donated plenty of money and bought his stuff, he copped out on them.

Pop Goes the Weasel
2005-08-04, 11:41 AM
Don't forget that people were using his sprites in their own webcomics and claiming them foir themselves. Legally, he had every right to do what he did, and it would not have gotten so bad if Gabe didn't publicly reply to Sean's plea for help in a mocking manner. Really, the law says Sean was right.

Starbuck_II
2005-08-04, 12:41 PM
Don't forget that people were using his sprites in their own webcomics and claiming them foir themselves. Legally, he had every right to do what he did, and it would not have gotten so bad if Gabe didn't publicly reply to Sean's plea for help in a mocking manner. Really, the law says Sean was right.

Agreed, Copyright enfringment is a real thing.
Penny Arcade people should know better. The Mods there are turning blind eyes to evils and breaking laws.

Someone should send a Monk/Paladin who calls herself a Samurai at them.

Wren
2005-08-04, 12:52 PM
Mods on the PA forums took care of the squidi avatar/sig thing rather quickly, they work separately from the PA guys and do things on their own accord.

Occasionally Gabe or Tycho will step in and say "do this" to the admins, but they don't actually post in the forums. Well, Gabe sometimes posts in the 'New Comic' threads, but rarely.

LurkerInPlayground
2005-08-04, 01:06 PM
Hello there, I'm a fan of Rich's work.

Squidi landed in the trouble he is in precisely because he is too belligerent.

Penny Arcade didn't break any copyrights and it was Squidi who made the larger fuss over nothing. Some of PA's forumers wanted to do pixel art for a sig or somesuch and Squidi felt it was an affront to his "art." As far as I can tell, the only similarities were that they were drawn in pixels.

Squidi's reputation is well-deserved and you can see it in the way he writes everything. To him, everybody in the comics community is either an "ass-hat" or some philistine out to desecrate his work. From the beginning he's had a hostile attitude towards people who were undeserving of his wrath. Just read the tone with which he writes his going-away post.

I personally never have read very much of Squidi's comics, but they didn't seem bad. What's more, he had a fanbase. Squidi wouldn't be the first person to have recieved hatemail or slandered on the internet. When you're on the internet it is almost inevitable that you will receive attention from undesirables. I think he could have stomached the consequences for his actions and continued with his comics. Although it doesn't help that Squidi actively made enemies, he made his own bed and he can sleep in it.

Also, I'm not going to hear this nonsense about PA being a Microsoft of the wecomic world. Penny Arcade is very lax about their own copyrights and I never got the impression that they took themselves too seriously. I have never seen them try to establish a monopoly and it is silly to say that they are an evil syndication simply because they are the most successful and well-known webcomic. Remember that it was Squidi who couldn't stomach the thought of someone else doing pixel art on a forums.

Drumbum42
2005-08-04, 02:10 PM
Squidi shall live on forever!

The dieing breath of a webcomic. AMD will shut down some time soon. The end of one of my 2 fav. webcomics. (This and OOTS) (8-bit is good too) I have save all possible things from the site in preperation of closeing of squidi.

It was a very well written comic. And I'm glad others agree.

go to the web page to see his closeing statment at http://www.squidi.net/

The Giant
2005-08-04, 03:54 PM
The Voice of Mod: Let's keep in mind that personal insults and attacks are not OK here, and technically, Sean is still a member of this forum (even if he only posted once). So if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Sophistemon
2005-08-04, 04:45 PM
Hello there, I'm a fan of Rich's work.

Squidi landed in the trouble he is in precisely because he is too belligerent.

Penny Arcade didn't break any copyrights and it was Squidi who made the larger fuss over nothing. Some of PA's forumers wanted to do pixel art for a sig or somesuch and Squidi felt it was an affront to his "art." As far as I can tell, the only similarities were that they were drawn in pixels.


I agree with you that Squidi may have been overzealous with protecting his work, but I too would have been insulted had somebody taken credit for something that I had done, though I would have handled it differently than he did. But as to him being hostile to other webcomics, the fact is that Mr. Gabe was unnecessarily rude in his news-post, and then along comes Mr. Kurtz, (whose comic, PvP, is one of my favorites) and, in an attempt to smooth things out and better understand the situation, sadly made matters (at least in Squidi's point-of-view) worse, though I am sure that that was not his intention.

Also, because I have never seen the altered sprites that caused the whole mess, I am unable to voice my opinion on whether or not they as similar to Squidi's work as he maintains, or just possess similar feet, as is the stance of Mr. Gabe.

Also, I did not mean for this thread to be a place for the hurling of insults, so I would like to offer The Giant my apologies on that.

Lord_Reanicus
2005-08-04, 06:00 PM
Hello there. I'm Lord Reanicus, ex-mod from the late Squidi.net forum and now mod in the Post-Squidi Community Forum, and I came here to adress this topic.

I realise it might be offensive to the members and Rich that I only join so ad-hoc, but I promise I will try to be here more than just write in this little topic. I do enjoy OotS quite alot!

Anyways, what I wanted to adress:



Penny Arcade didn't break any copyrights and it was Squidi who made the larger fuss over nothing. Some of PA's forumers wanted to do pixel art for a sig or somesuch and Squidi felt it was an affront to his "art." As far as I can tell, the only similarities were that they were drawn in pixels.

There is a saying that goes something as "If you don't know what exactly happened; don't retell it."

Sean Howard, aka Squidi, found out that someone in the PA Forum had made a generator that made avatars that quite clearly were just a rip-off of Sean's work. Don't come here saying it's just pixels, because you can see the difference between the styles in SNES 32x32 pixel characters very easily.

It wasn't just the foot, by the way, it was pretty much everything.

Now, these avatars were spread all over the forum. Sean told the maker to stop, he did, but the members refused to stop using the avatars, so Sean pm'd the Admin/Mods and they blatantly did nothing about it and made ridiculed him because of it.

Now, at this point, if you were in Sean's shoes and NOT pissed off, or at least understand why he was angry and sent a latter to Gabe about it, then you are quite clearly lacking in empathy.

I'm not going to defend Sean by sticks and stones, and I agree that he's done things that are unfair, but this PA Incident wasn't him bitchin' about people making avatars that remotely looked like his work, but quite blatantly and obviously was his work in a perverted process.

I note that the respected maker of the OotS also do not want his avatars edited, altered and spread in another forum aswell, and this in light at what Sean had to undergo.

So perhaps this wasn't just a bagatelle after all?

In any case, I take blame at doing this. The case has been long burried and dead, Sean's gone and there's little to do about that. Ah well, I recomend people to download the archieves. It's good read!

Hobot
2005-08-04, 07:30 PM
I think this thread should be locked and deleted quickly before a giant flame-war errupts, as is often the case with anything involving Squidi. His name is synonymous with overblown disputes and petty rivalries.

I can only hope that he'll actually follow through with what he says this time.

Wren
2005-08-04, 07:37 PM
Not sure about that, this thread was already on its way to the bottom.

Sophistemon
2005-08-04, 07:47 PM
I think this thread should be locked and deleted quickly before a giant flame-war errupts, as is often the case with anything involving Squidi. His name is synonymous with overblown disputes and petty rivalries.

I can only hope that he'll actually follow through with what he says this time.

The insults were not necessary, but if the Giant wills it I will of course erase this thread.

Hobot
2005-08-04, 07:57 PM
The insults were not necessary, but if the Giant wills it I will of course erase this thread.


Are they insults if they're the truth? Look at any other place (forum, blog, etc.) where his name is mentioned and you'll see what I mean.

Sophistemon
2005-08-04, 08:05 PM
Perhaps you are correct, but the Giant (and myself) would most likely prefer this thread to be insult-free, even if those insults speak the truth.

sktarq
2005-08-04, 08:15 PM
There is a difference between insults, opinions, and facts. As long as everybody keeps the last two clearly seperate and the first off site then we'll be fine. Truth included.

Edit: Does anyone know of anywhere where one can see examples of both the originals and the disputed knck-offs so that late comers (like myself) can see what all the fuss is/was about?

Hobot
2005-08-04, 08:34 PM
Perhaps you are correct, but the Giant (and myself) would most likely prefer this thread to be insult-free, even if those insults speak the truth.


There is a difference between insults, opinions, and facts. As long as everybody keeps the last two clearly seperate and the first off site then we'll be fine. Truth included.

Ok fine, let me further clarify, those weren't insults or opinions at all, they were facts. Don't be so quick to assume I was referring to Squidi himself, I was talking about discussions about Squidi.

EDIT: I know you weren't referring to me specifically SKTARQ. I just thought you had made a good point and I decided I should be more explicit.



Edit: Does anyone know of anywhere where one can see examples of both the originals and the disputed knck-offs so that late comers (like myself) can see what all the fuss is/was about?

You don't need to see them, they were definitely knock-offs. The perpetrator even admitted they were long ago. The fuss was more about the conduct of the parties involved.

sktarq
2005-08-04, 08:38 PM
the fact is that Mr. Gabe was unnecessarily rude in his news-post

That is an opinion in the form of a fact. Its possibly (even likely) a well founded opinion but the kind of talk that will get everyone in trouble.

Furthermore I wasn't thinking about you-I was making a blanket statment-if you thought i was talking to you then that tells me more of how you view your own posts than anything.

Cougaar
2005-08-04, 09:09 PM
well, I don't know squidi or his work or whatever happened to him but I've been victim of 2 incidents that sound similar

a) I like to grab a pencil now and then and produce something that after much work on it resembles something that might be called a good drawing. as I showed it to my friends they said it was good and convinced me to put it up on my webpage. I did and about a year later I hoined a forum, someone checked my webpage and said: "I've seen those drawings before" whereupon I took one o the originals and todays newspaper and scanned them in to prove that I really do own the originals and thus that my work had been "stolen" and used by someone else. Yes, I was angry and I fumed about it - but - I did that fuming offline, for a forum is not a place to post if you're angry. I went over my homepage and redid the way I put my pictures up, so they could no longer be rightclicked and saved. It still irks me, that people would take my hard work and claim it is theirs and I know I'm right in thinking they have done something wrong. But there's no use in me getting antsy about it. All in all, somebody thought what I have produced is so good, they want to claim it as their own. It's a bit of a twisted way of giving a compliment and doesn't make it right. But thinking like that helps me keep my cool. I think I can understand anyone who has put time and effort into something and sees it stolen, modified and/or plagiatised - it hurts and some characters explode when they are confronted with it happening to them.

b) I've modified some smilies to fit in with a certain style for a forum elsewhere - I asked if it were okay to post them, I did my best to find out if they belonged to anybody (not wanting to commit a theft myself after the previous experiance) and repeatedly told people that I had NOT made the smilies from scratch, but had only modified exsisting ones. Half a year later, I was victimised by a bunch of flamers, that I had stolen the images only to claim that I had made them. Twice. Meh, it was a "difficult time" and I've left that community that prefer (f)lamers to resonable people. But I think I can safely say I know how it feels to be told one has stolen somebody's intellectual property when oneself thinks one has done no wrong.

The point being, it's a point of perspective - I'd wager a penny that neither side of the "argument" between squidi and "the others" had the emotional distance to reason with the other - it's not hard to get very upset. And once people start (f)laming reasonable discussion is usually no longer possible.

IMNSHO, it's regettable that a creative mind has retreated - a lot of people loose something special that way. Not only the creative person but also the people that enjoyed what was created and those who enjoyed talking about it. Even the (f)lamers loose out - one of their opponents is no longer there to attack.

If I were prone to wishing for things not possible, I would wish that I'd've met squidi sooner - I might have been able to calm the anger a little and perhaps soothe the pain a little. I've learnt that sometimes it's best to move to another place, there are millions of other places on the 'net where one can find honest and nice people. Noone is forced to communicate with others on the 'net. That's what makes it such a great place. Even though I've been harrassed, hurt and victimised in one place - I simply left and found a new home elsewhere. Places, where my creativity is appreciated and where I enjoy reading and writing.

Meh, I've gone all serious and sentimental.. sorry 'bout that. I'll be back to my usual cheery and happy self in a bit ;)

Sophistemon
2005-08-04, 10:13 PM
That is an opinion in the form of a fact. Its possibly (even likely) a well founded opinion but the kind of talk that will get everyone in trouble.
[/s]

Sorry, SKTARQ. I'll be more careful of that in the future.

EDIT
I agree with the above poster. The creative mind deserves to be cared-for and nourished, not irritated to the point of self-imposed exile.

Hzurr
2005-08-04, 11:02 PM
I wasn't around for the whole Squidi/Penny-Arcade thing, so I honestly don't have an opinion on that one way or another. I dislike squidi because of his blogs, and his viewpoints, not because of some copyright issue that I have no business making a decision on (although I'll have a law degree in about 5 years, so if anyone is curious, ask me again then, and I'll give you a professional opinion :) ). However, regardless of how we feel about him, or about the PA issue, I think the point of this thread should be that a popular and (in my opinion) a very well-written webcomic is ending. That being said, I'd like to ask for a brief moment of silence.

*Bows head for a moment*

Ok, well, I'm off to go read Bob and George now.

grim_chook
2005-08-04, 11:57 PM
*Blink* Insults? What? Was it something I said?

sktarq
2005-08-05, 12:11 AM
It is more that the subject has been noted for blowing up into flamewars in the past and it needs to headed off before it starts...or at least that's my personal not-in-any-way-offical-part-of-this-website-slash-website's-managment opinion.

clarkcd
2005-08-05, 06:15 AM
The insults were not necessary, but if the Giant wills it I will of course erase this thread.


As a tangental point once a thread has been replied to the OP can no longer delete it. The only thing he can do is to delete the OP which then just confuses everyone.

yrro
2005-08-05, 07:00 AM
And, of course, Squidi's biggest reason for quitting is that his name *has* become synonymous with flame wars over the Penny Arcade issue. He wants to be remembered for his work, not extraneous issues.

Which I would have been quite willing to do if the guy didn't manage to sound so whiny in his going-away post :P

Still, I hope he does manage to get a good deal on a paperback or something. I want to know how his darn story ends!

Jibar
2005-08-05, 10:31 AM
I just finished reading through them all, and I gotta say wow, they're great,
But I don't understand though, why did he stop?

Sophistemon
2005-08-05, 10:47 AM
As a tangental point once a thread has been replied to the OP can no longer delete it. The only thing he can do is to delete the OP which then just confuses everyone.
Oh. Never mind, then.

Geech000
2005-08-05, 11:18 AM
I have been and still am a big fan of Squidi's work. I didn't really pay attention to the PA wars so I have no right to comment on that situation. What I do know is that his comics were excellent and I eagerly await his book. About his blogs, I was offended by them occasionally, and because of that I rarely read them. As I recall, when he announced that the blogs would be up regularily, Squidi warned that they would likely irritate many people and that people didn't, and shouldn't, read them if they would be easily offended.

People don't listen and the world is full of jerks. Because of this, I feared to start my own website, a fear I have now overcome. I shouldn't have to be afraid of what people will say or do.

I have babbled enough.

carnivore
2005-08-05, 10:59 PM
Ah, Sean... I really feel rotten everytime I think of the fact that the comic is over. Sure, he was sorta hostile, but that's why we loved him! He always made me think with his blog topics, and I lived his storytelling style and his art.

:'(

DarkCloud
2005-08-06, 05:41 PM
In my opinion- Squidi was a bit touchy as a person- but he was brilliant with his art, his story, and his site.

And, as has already been stated, he had good reason to be touchy about some things- people were stealing his art, and were degrading his work.

As he experienced, and as a few others of you have posted above- everyone seems to suffer the wrath of internet jerks- even rich has had to enforce his copyright before... and when I ran first a Rollercoaster Tycoon site (for 3 years) and then a Sims website (for another 3 years), I too received lots of angry emails accusing me of 'ripping off other sites' (???) and 'making a crappy site' (:rolleyes:) and having 'useless information.' This was really frustrating, so I can sympathise with Squidi.

Frankly, I ENJOYED his pixel art a lot more than the 'manga-drawn' or hand drawn pieces that most people consider superior art- and the fact that he came out with a comic EVERY DAY NO MATTER WHAT counted for a lot. He was productive and enjoyed his work... and it was GOOD.

So I encourage everyone reading this thread to check out his site: www.squidi.net and read "A Modest Destiny"

In closing... I salute you Squidi. Best of luck in life and with the new child.

Jibar
2005-08-07, 02:22 AM
yes, but WHY has he stopped, I don't understand,

Scion_of_the_Light
2005-08-07, 07:55 PM
I believe he stopped for several reasons. The first part of A Modest Destiny, War of Fate, was over. He became a father. Increasing pressure from others drove him nearly insane. His website had a few hits when he did not post new comics at all for a while, during the time when his new child was still newborn...and actually, still is. A massive amount of pressure coalesced into this.

But, I do not believe A Modest Destiny is done for good. Sean did state that he would continue it, just not publish it on the Internet. Squidi.net is down, A Modest Destiny is not. Look foreward to the book editions to it. I wonder, however, how he is really going to sell the books if he does not have a website. It is popular, yes, but in a webcomic-y way. I don't think it would do very good on the open market.

The comic was good. Hilarious. Yes, it was sort of odd, how the comic began becoming more and more dark and sinister, dealing with difficult and contraverisal themes. But, it was still good. Excellent.

The entire issue with Penny Arcade and Sean's rather leftist attitude is irrelevant. What matters now is that A Modest Destiny is stopping, dying alongside Squidi.net. I wish it my fond farewell, and hope it manages to find fans elsewhere. Good luck to Sean as well, especially in his pursuit of raising a child.

Arent
2005-08-09, 07:54 PM
I loved the comic, but never really got to go on the forums and I know nothing of what PA did. Still I shall miss it as much as the rest of you.

GeeVee
2005-08-10, 05:09 AM
The whole PA thing can be viewed at Sean Howard's wikipedia entry.
Anyway, I'm not going to miss Squidi, although I liked his webcomic. He was both rude and intolerant. Also, his ego had escalated beyond rational limits. He always thought AMD was "something more" than other webcomics. He saw his own work as superior. He stated that repeatedly in his blogs and on the forums. And many of the forumers insisted on calling him "Mr. Howard" (makes me feel sick), which only made his ego grow even bigger.

CharPixie
2005-08-10, 12:50 PM
But he did a cute webcomic. It's good to seperate the art from the artist, after all.

Adaon
2005-08-12, 03:56 AM
I don't really know how i feel about squidi as a person, but i don't think it reallly matters. AMD was the first rpg comic i read, and the first few "seasons" of it were absolutely a riot. Not to mention the art (especially TMD art) was superb and all hand done, and pretty impressive.

There was one point, though, where he wanted to make his comic more plot-driven, and i think that was where it started to go downhill, because ofttimes he would have a comic full of plot and no jokes, and it's hard to replace an all-funny comic with plot and drama (IMO of course).

Amorphous_Ferret
2005-08-14, 01:18 PM
He created the hostility himself. If he can't take that, then fine. What he gets for being a drama queen.

I only really enjoyed his earlier comics, although his more recent stuff wasn't that bad either.

To those who say other people closed down his comic.. wrong. He did it himself, he chose to. Who cares if random joe X sends him a stupid email? Deleted. So what if someone makes a stupid comment on his forum? Deleted (after getting flamed to death). He still had a large and loyal fanbase who had donated plenty of money and bought his stuff, he copped out on them.

Dude. He was getting harassed by phone calls. He now has a baby. We all think it sucks that he closed down his site, but I blame the attitude of the average internet user: "If it's online, it's not "real", so I can act like as big a jerk as I want." There's a reason slashdot has anonymous users called "anonymous coward".

Tristeza
2005-08-14, 10:28 PM
Just a Rest In peace message as I know Squidi occasionally haunts this forum.

Shame to see it go, I was a big fan.
Desktop wallpaper for life ;)

Sure he baught it on himself, but I dont blame the guy at ALL.

DarkMonkey
2005-08-19, 10:37 PM
"*squeeze squeeze* "Your a girl?""
brilliant comic. shame what happened though

Muzzleflash
2005-08-20, 08:28 PM
Hello there. I'm Lord Reanicus, ex-mod from the late Squidi.net forum and now mod in the Post-Squidi Community Forum, and I came here to adress this topic.

I realise it might be offensive to the members and Rich that I only join so ad-hoc, but I promise I will try to be here more than just write in this little topic. I do enjoy OotS quite alot!

Anyways, what I wanted to adress:


There is a saying that goes something as "If you don't know what exactly happened; don't retell it."

Sean Howard, aka Squidi, found out that someone in the PA Forum had made a generator that made avatars that quite clearly were just a rip-off of Sean's work. Don't come here saying it's just pixels, because you can see the difference between the styles in SNES 32x32 pixel characters very easily.

It wasn't just the foot, by the way, it was pretty much everything.

Now, these avatars were spread all over the forum. Sean told the maker to stop, he did, but the members refused to stop using the avatars, so Sean pm'd the Admin/Mods and they blatantly did nothing about it and made ridiculed him because of it.

Now, at this point, if you were in Sean's shoes and NOT pissed off, or at least understand why he was angry and sent a latter to Gabe about it, then you are quite clearly lacking in empathy.

I'm not going to defend Sean by sticks and stones, and I agree that he's done things that are unfair, but this PA Incident wasn't him bitchin' about people making avatars that remotely looked like his work, but quite blatantly and obviously was his work in a perverted process.

I note that the respected maker of the OotS also do not want his avatars edited, altered and spread in another forum aswell, and this in light at what Sean had to undergo.

So perhaps this wasn't just a bagatelle after all?

In any case, I take blame at doing this. The case has been long burried and dead, Sean's gone and there's little to do about that. Ah well, I recomend people to download the archieves. It's good read!

Hi, Lord R. I remember you from the forums. Squidi never did make someone a mod unless they had un plus grand bâton a poussé vers le haut de leur extrémité arrière than he did. ;)

I'd love to present some true, non distorted perspectives and fun personal accounts that got covered up, if the members of this forum don't mind. I'm definitely not about insulting, or character assassination. I just think some people deserve to know the whole story. :)

For example, you know how Squidi threatened to quit publishing comics until EVERY comic that 'ripped off his work' was off the internet, expecting his good little soldiers to go harass them all until they were gone? That only lasted for a night or two, then his wife took over again, put the comics back up, and deleted any evidence. Discussing it on the forum was rewarded with a ban. ;)

Oh, and here are the PA avatars. I agree that copying a character, or even just recoloring one is a bad thing, but I'll let you guys decide if this is 'copyright infringement':

http://www.squidi.net/web/temp/paavatars.gif

Squidi was a drama lover, he made decent sprite comics except that the characters were always either pointing or not pointing, and he could make a good story. Too bad he self destructed so spectacularly, I did enjoy the comics a lot.

He's still on the post squidi forums as Squorgar, coyly avoiding any questions as to his identity.

Umbral_Arcanist
2005-08-20, 11:38 PM
AMD was my favorite comic on the web, (only recently have begun to read/appriciate OoTS) I will miss it dearly. I left for 3 weeks with no internet and found my favorite comic gone forever, so i went to OoTS to try and drown my worries in laughter..... well it worked. I also like that Sean linked this strip in his good-bye blog as a replacement.

Gee Vee, Why did our show of respect to Sean by calling him MR. howard offend you? he didn't make us call him that, it was merely a show of respect.

and its nice to see that you live Lord Reanicus

Cyclone231
2005-08-20, 11:41 PM
For example, you know how Squidi threatened to quit publishing comics until EVERY comic that 'ripped off his work' was off the internet, expecting his good little soldiers to go harass them all until they were gone? That only lasted for a night or two, then his wife took over again, put the comics back up, and deleted any evidence.I'm sensing a lack of various facts. As I recall, that was for one particular comic, which was made by a guy who just kept saying he didn't steal it. You should've seen the guy on the forums. The best part was his last post, where he showed a phallic image and said it was his attempt to create a likeness of Sean.

Priceless. Obviously, he got banned from posting for that.

He eventually wussed out and faked being hacked by Squidi fans.

Muzzleflash
2005-08-21, 01:04 AM
I'm sensing a lack of various facts. As I recall, that was for one particular comic, which was made by a guy who just kept saying he didn't steal it. You should've seen the guy on the forums. The best part was his last post, where he showed a phallic image and said it was his attempt to create a likeness of Sean.

Priceless. Obviously, he got banned from posting for that.

He eventually wussed out and faked being hacked by Squidi fans.


I wish I'd screenshotted the front page, but what I said is the truth. He said "all" ripoffs, not just the one, even though it was the catalyst. One of the moderators wrote a blog on this topic, very critically- but I forgot the address.

Jibar
2005-08-21, 03:58 AM
i agree with squidi on those avatars though, they look far too much like his own.
I hope he finishes the story somewhere, I loved the plot.

Muzzleflash
2005-08-21, 06:30 PM
i agree with squidi on those avatars though, they look far too much like his own.
I hope he finishes the story somewhere, I loved the plot.


I can't see any characters being ripped off, just a style of drawing characters. That's not infringement.

mcc
2005-08-21, 06:46 PM
I can't see any characters being ripped off, just a style of drawing characters. That's not infringement.
It isn't even a remotely original style of drawing characters.

*cough*

http://img77.exs.cx/img77/4451/ufouriabl5ea.gif

Anyway, I find it interesting that even this thread seems to have turned completely into a discussion of the webcomic artists' War On Sprite Comics, not the webcomic itself...

Cyclone231
2005-08-21, 07:06 PM
Mcc, if you are trying to claim that those sprites are similar to Sean's style, you have failed. I mean, if anyone seriously compared the characters, they would look totally different. Seriously. It's about the same as comparing Megaman to Mario. The entire composition is different, because Sean's are viewed from a five-eighths view, while those are three-fourths. Sure, that's only a fourty five degree difference, but it makes all the difference in the world with pictures.

Muzzleflash... it's not the "style" of drawing characters. You can't copyright "profile view, large heads with 3*2 eyes, 28*12". However, you can copyright an image. It's the image that's being stolen here.. It's called a derivative work. Here, let's make a comparison. Would you say this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Cyclone231/Crap.png) is derivative of this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2005-08-19)? I would.

mcc
2005-08-21, 08:00 PM
I mean, if anyone seriously compared the characters, they would look totally different.
I frankly cannot tell any meaningful difference.


Seriously. It's about the same as comparing Megaman to Mario.
Mega Man and Mario look fairly different.

Mega Man and any sprite on this entire page, however, do look relatively similar in a number of ways. The feet, in particular. (http://freexbresse.free.fr/mmf/mmgb5/intro/gb5int02.gif)


The entire composition is different, because Sean's are viewed from a five-eighths view, while those are three-fourths.
So.. then.. we are supposed to believe this squid person invented pictures in which individuals are shown at a 56-degree angle (http://www.dieselsweeties.com/hstrips/0/0/0/1/00012.png)?

Fascinating. (http://www.videogamecritic.net/images/nes/river_city_ransom.gif)

Meh. I guess I probably shouldn't be poking at this but...

Cyclone231
2005-08-21, 08:34 PM
I frankly cannot tell any meaningful difference. Then you, sir, are oblivious (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Cyclone231/SeanComparison.png).

Mega Man and any sprite on this entire page, however, do look relatively similar in a number of ways.Oh man. You aren't honestly saying the only similarity between those and Sean's work are the feet, are you? Are you? (http://home.att.net/~kidradd/overlay.gif)

So.. then.. we are supposed to believe this squid person invented pictures in which individuals are shown at a 56-degree angle? No. The point is that the images are different by their appearance due to this basic difference in composition.

mcc
2005-08-21, 09:16 PM
No. The point is that the images are different by their appearance due to this basic difference in composition.
But the "basic differences in composition" are quite tiny, and difficult to discern unless you practically just sit down and measure pixels. It just kind of seems like hair-splitting to me.

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~amcclure/f/deleteme/creativity.gif

:shrug:

Cyclone231
2005-08-21, 10:15 PM
But the "basic differences in composition" are quite tiny, and difficult to discern unless you practically just sit down and measure pixels.No it's not. Compared to the work, it is a HUGE difference. I mean, if you haven't worked with the form (and for quite a while, I have), you don't have the eye for it, but it is a huge difference.

McDeath
2005-08-21, 11:36 PM
I've said it before and I'l say it again, Squidi was a site with a couple of great comics. There were some blogs which made assumptions that some other people didn't like, and other people didn't like Sean's attitude. really, all this strife holds *zero* interest for me.

Muzzleflash
2005-08-22, 02:18 AM
But the "basic differences in composition" are quite tiny, and difficult to discern unless you practically just sit down and measure pixels. It just kind of seems like hair-splitting to me.

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~amcclure/f/deleteme/creativity.gif

:shrug:




BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! Quick, alert Sean Howard! He must immediately send angry letters to whoever made Megaman!

PS: can you see any characters of Sean's in that avatar list? Or any characters of Sean that are merely recolored? No? Then he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of doing a thing about it.

Umbral_Arcanist
2005-08-22, 10:52 AM
Muzzleflash i am not sure you understand what the issue is/was Sean copyrighted his sprites and under that copyright Whatever the guys did was illegal. Sure Sean is very zealous about this whole thing but thats the way he is.

On another note, i find it a pity that people can't look beyond Sean's blogs and opinions that they dislike and just read the comic.....

CharPixie
2005-08-22, 01:08 PM
The sprites were based off (i.e. used) an outline that a third party reduced one of the AMD characters to. Basically, the borders are stolen from a copyrighted source, and then expanded on.

Heh. I never read the blogs. My friends blog, and keeping up with them exposes me to quite enough of the genre, thank you muchly.

I did really like how he included commentry on the first few episodes. It really opened up the creative process, and that's something I'll cheer him on.

Cyclone231
2005-08-22, 02:21 PM
Please stop comparing Dr. Light to the AMD base. It makes me sick. Seriously. Anyone who knows anything about pixel art realizes that that picture is a butt-ugly, fuzzy, craptacular Dr. Light, and the images look nothing alike (on that scale; that level of difference is very large for such tiny characters).

Muzzleflash
2005-08-22, 04:38 PM
Muzzleflash i am not sure you understand what the issue is/was Sean copyrighted his sprites and under that copyright Whatever the guys did was illegal. Sure Sean is very zealous about this whole thing but thats the way he is.

Speaking as possibly the only person here or who was on Squidi's website who actually took the time to educate themselves on copyright law, BWAHAHAHAHA.

Drothiir
2005-08-22, 05:30 PM
AMD was the first web comic I started reading, right before I found OOTS. I was amazed at how he could be so funny in his comic, but then discuss politics so intellgenetly. He was an awesome webcomic author, and while I'm sad that he is gone, I understand that the internet is full of very mean people. I hope he is left alone to live a nice quiet life with his family, without the hassles of the internet to slow him down.

And that's probably the most compassionate thing you'll ever hear me say. ;)

CharPixie
2005-08-22, 08:35 PM
Oh, and Tubesteak Samuari posted that he did take his template from a website, and incorporated the template into his work. The template was a simplified version of an AMD character. As I understand copyright law, it would qualify as a derivative work.

ColdWizard
2005-08-24, 12:54 AM
Having found my way here from the link at squidi.net, I view it as a silver lining on an otherwise bleak occurance. I'll bypass all the PA related matters as I have no firsthand knowledge of the situation and merely close with:

Thank you for the comics, Mr. Howard, I enjoyed them immensely. Good luck with the baby and your other future endeavors.

neriana
2005-08-24, 04:30 AM
*shrugs* The PA guys piss me off pretty often too. I still think they're talented and basically cool. Frankly, I have yet to find a blog that doesn't irritate me at some point. It's the nature of the beast.

The internet just isn't for everyone. Once you're around for a while, you will make enemies; the more talented you are, the more enemies you'll make. Put that on top of a creative temperament, PLUS a new baby -- ouch. The whole PA/Squidi thing was silly internet drama that should never have happened on everyone's part. I think people are starting to act a bit more "professional" on forums and such, and I hope that this blow-up encourages people to remember that there are human beings on the other side of the screen. Though you can say I'm a dreamer :P.

I really liked the comic, and I'm sad to see it go.

Drumbum42
2005-08-31, 12:42 PM
Squidi was one of my favright comics, that and OOTS. With the hole PA thing being crap and all, stuff happens. AMD had a real potental in finishing the seson as the best. I was waiting to see all the plot lines, the city of the was going to be really good.

So long to a good comic.