some advice for a ...spy..ish character ?

[LordSepht]

so I have a game next wednesday and I wanna try a more.. social type of character, the one who can bluff and intimidate manipulate and treatening his way out of ..anything ? So I was thinking about a rogue/sorcerer

rogue have a lot of skill and sorcerer is a charisma damage dealer so it seem a pretty logical choice...
the fact is ..I have a lot of question

1-should I start with a rogue or a sorcerer ( im starting level 1 )
2-witch skill and feat should I take for being...useful to my team ( im probably be the face of my group too)
3-if arcane trickster is a good objectif for the kind of gameplay I want to ?

i'm a pretty new player I play two game before this one .. 6 year ago soo ... one was sizard and the other a monk( hail to flurry of miss -_-)

[ATHATH]

Instead of bothering with multi-classing, have you considered just being a Psychic Rogue? It's an excellent entry class for the Ebon Saint prestige class.

[Pyromancer999]

If you're aiming for a social master of a character, going Changeling and going Rogue 1/Warlock or Dragonfire Adept 1/Marshal 1 is a good start. Changeling Rogue 1 gets (10+ Int modifier) x 4 skill points at first level, plus gets you a lot of good social abilities, like taking 10 on most social skill checks, and being able to make such checks faster. Warlock 1 gets you Beguiling Influence. Take Marshal 1 and Motivate Charisma to add your Charisma to your and all allies within 30 ft's Charisma-based checks.

If you want simply a skillmonkey that can deal damage well, Changeling Rogue 3/Warlock 6/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3(advancing Hellfire Warlock) with Strongheart Vest gets you a 15th level character that deals 13d6 damage at-will with a ranged touch attack on a steady basis without consequences, with decent skill points thrown in the mix. Finish off with Legacy Champion to even further.

If you want to also do good stealth stuff, make sure to take Darkstalker to further your Hide/Move Silently's ability to conceal your presence.

It really depends on what you're aiming to specifically do. Is the damage dealing the focus of your character, or is it the social face part?

[gorfnab]

1-should I start with a rogue or a sorcerer ( im starting level 1 )

In this situation start with Rogue. This will give you the best skill points and hit points at first level.
However, there are other options for a spy based face build that do not involve Rogue or Sorcerer. Listed below are just some of the options. If you click the name of the class it will bring up useful handbooks/guides for each one.

Bard (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8686) - Cha based casting. Lots of skills. It can serve as the face of party. Lots of party buffs.
Beguiler (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=363) - Int based casting. Lots of skills. It can serve as the face of party. Full 9th level spellcasting.
Factotum (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=nitsm5a1tau4jtm0u7pjjmql32&topic=8685) - Int based SLA casting. All of the skills. It can serve as the face of party. It can do a bit of everything.
Psychic Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?234327-3-5-Thinking-on-your-Feet-The-Psychic-Rogue-Handbook) - Int based psionic casting. Lots of skills. It can also serve as the face of party.

Or if you're really stuck on using Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?156350-3-5-The-Rogue-Handbook-A-Fistful-of-d6) and Sorcerer (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=487)


2-witch skill and feat should I take for being...useful to my team ( im probably be the face of my group too)

This depends on what the rest of you group is composed of and what books you have available as resources for building your character. Take a look at the handbooks linked in the above classes.



3-if arcane trickster is a good objectif for the kind of gameplay I want to ?

If you're stuck with the just the PHB and DMG for books than it's better than nothing. IF you have more books available check out this guide. Sneak Attacking Spellcasters (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)

Note: If you would like more help from us we would need some more information, specifically what books do you have available to use, what character building restrictions your DM may have, what character level will this game potentially reach, and what is the composition of the rest of the party.

[Gildedragon]

For a stealth type character:

First: ask if you can have an LA+1 race
if yes: get the Dark template
if no: oh well... moving on

Changeling Rogue 1 is probably the best you can get

There are a couple routes you can take from there:
Factotum (1 or 3) can net you access to the [Feline] only skill "Handle Humanoid" if you have the Racial Emulation feat. What does HH do... well it lets you push people around to do as you ask them to. You will have very few feats but you will have a lot of skills and a couple of tricks to which you can put your Intelligence. This class can do everything sortaish kinda well; their powers are very dependent on the skills you take. (see the handbook in the sig)

Bard or Beguiler are probably a better options than sorcerer; the spells are a bit more tailored to the finaggling of people. If Bard then simultaneously take Gnome Bard 1 and Half Elf Bard 1 (you will need to have taken Racial Emulation), and you will play the Harmonica (it grants a bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy), you will also probably trade out bardic knowledge for Loresong or Bardic Knack.

You can, however, just stay rogue and do quite well in that role

[ZeroiaSD]

There's also the Vigilante, who's class abilities are half social.


It assumes you have a secret ID, but may be an option for you, since it has talents like 'assume any normal nondiscript ID,' or "use your non-adventure ID to put word out that your adventurer ID is super badass and gets a big intimidate bonus."

You also won't be bad in a fight.

[LordSepht]

Instead of bothering with multi-classing, have you considered just being a Psychic Rogue? It's an excellent entry class for the Ebon Saint prestige class.

sadly we do not play with the psybook the GM play with the basic one :-(

[Elder_Basilisk]

There's also the Vigilante, who's class abilities are half social.


It assumes you have a secret ID, but may be an option for you, since it has talents like 'assume any normal nondiscript ID,' or "use your non-adventure ID to put word out that your adventurer ID is super badass and gets a big intimidate bonus."

You also won't be bad in a fight.

I was thinking of Vigilante too. If you are playing Pathfinder or your DM is open to pathfinder materials, it's a good bet. Lots of social abilities and good full BAB or sneak attack combat ability (your choice but both have some really nice options).

And don't be put off by the secret identity thing. It is an option but you don't really have to make use of it. If you decide to go Iron Man and say, "screw it, I'm Iron Man" the only thing that happens is...everyone knows you're Iron Man. You can stay in "social identity" the whole time and not miss out on much of anything other than concealing your identity and the intimidate bonuses for being in vigilante identity.

[LordSepht]

There's also the Vigilante, who's class abilities are half social.


It assumes you have a secret ID, but may be an option for you, since it has talents like 'assume any normal nondiscript ID,' or "use your non-adventure ID to put word out that your adventurer ID is super badass and gets a big intimidate bonus."

You also won't be bad in a fight.

in fact I aint think about that, but I like it !

[LordSepht]

I just realise what kind of char EXACTLY i was looking for -_- not a spy...but let say .. a Tyron Lanister type on char...who can do his part of dps if needed... without being the super duper one, and no need to be a dwarf either :p and wo play with basic book...

[Gildedragon]

Tyrion is straight up an Aristocrat/Expert
But if you want to buff that up:
Factotum or Bard are your friends (Factotum 3/Bard whatever) or Binder 1 (naberius)/Factotum whatever
Your Int and Cha ought be your primary stats, Str and Wis are your dump stats, keen intellect is a MUST feat

[LordSepht]

Tyrion is straight up an Aristocrat/Expert
But if you want to buff that up:
Factotum or Bard are your friends (Factotum 3/Bard whatever) or Binder 1 (naberius)/Factotum whatever
Your Int and Cha ought be your primary stats, Str and Wis are your dump stats, keen intellect is a MUST feat

THAT IT !!!! that what I'm looking for :-) thank a lot !

[Gildedragon]

THAT IT !!!! that what I'm looking for :-) thank a lot !
Actually you might also rather changeling as race. rogue3 sub level at 1 and 3; factotum the rest of the way you can exchange sneak attack for fighter feats

[LordSepht]

Actually you might also rather changeling as race. rogue3 sub level at 1 and 3; factotum the rest of the way you can exchange sneak attack for fighter feats
I'll be honest i'm really not sure what you just said.. i'm not use to play DnD sooo I know the basic that all :smallbiggrin:

[Gildedragon]

I'll be honest i'm really not sure what you just said.. i'm not use to play DnD sooo I know the basic that all :smallbiggrin:

So changelings are a race that debuted in Eberron; they are essentially (but not quite) half-doppelgangers.
There is a racial variant for the rogue class that is specific to changelings: it removes trapfinding and replaces it with the power to take 10 on social skill regardless of everything. It also replaces trapsense with a bonus to knowledge checks.
It also gives 10 skills per level (at levels 1 & 3) rather than the rogue's 8; so if it is your first character level you get a whopping 4x(10+Int) skillpoints; if you're planning on going into factotum your int is probably at least 16, so you get some 52 points.

Also there is a variant for rogue (which you can tack onto the racial one) that trades out sneak attack for fighter bonus feats. There are a lot of them, and some are very very good.

Factotum is a base class from dungeonscape that can do a little bit of everything, but is overall quite reliant on its skills (hence it synergizing nicely with the skillpoint boost of the rogue)