Optimizing a Dragonborn's breath weapon?

[Kevingway]

I can't seem to find anything (class, features, etc.) that synergize with the breath weapon. I'm basically wanting to make a dragonborn warlock with Tiamat as my fiendish patron. Where should I go from here to get the most bang for my buck? If I focus on Eldritch Blast, I see no reason not to be doing that instead of using my once-per-wait_forever_and_a_day breath attack, so I feel blade or maybe even chain is appropriate; but what then?

Help would greatly be appreciated, my fellow giants!

If optimization tricks require not being a warlock, I'll gladly listen too, of course!

[Ralanr]

I'd imagine a trickery cleric special ability to cast spells from a different area on the board would prove useful.

[DracoKnight]

I'd imagine a trickery cleric special ability to cast spells from a different area on the board would prove useful.

This - and whaddaya know? Trickery is Tiamat's Domain :smallbiggrin:

For this MC to work you'd need a 13 in CHA and WIS, though.

With Standard, that'd look like this:

STR 14 (12+2)
DEX 10
CON 15
INT 8
WIS 13
CHA 15 (14+1)

[Kevingway]

I'd imagine a trickery cleric special ability to cast spells from a different area on the board would prove useful.

Doesn't work though because the breath weapon isn't a spell.

Awesome freaking idea though. I'd love to do it if I weren't a RAW stickler. And I mean, god dang would this be a cool thing.

[Daishain]

Aside from bumping Con, there isn't much you can do to improve the breath weapon by RAW. Pretty much everything specifies a weapon, attack, or spell. Technically, acquiring one of the five dragon masks of Tiamat would help, but good luck with that happening in your average campaign.

That stated, a free 1/SL AOE that scales (if weakly) isn't bad.

Now, there are a few things that a generous DM might consider houseruling to work with your breath weapon. For instance the Elemental Adept feat, the Undying Light warlock's Radiant Soul ability, or the Wild Magic Sorcerer's recharge ability.

I might also for instance consider letting a dragonborn burn spell slots or other finite resources for an immediate breath weapon recharge.

[Naanomi]

Elemental Bane from EE can help, for what it is worth

[Daishain]

Elemental Bane from EE can help, for what it is worth
Meh, that spell is only worth the 4th level spell slot if hitting a resistant or immune target repeatedly with the same damage type. Its one of the few things that can make Witch bolt actually worthwhile. Using it to inflict a little extra damage on one target of a single turn AOE isn't exactly a great boon.

[ZenBear]

On the point about Warlock build; I love the Fighter 1/Warlock 19 Dragonborn. Heavy armor and martial weapons from the start, plenty of melee damage from Blade pact, and reality-shattering spells of a full caster.

[Hrugner]

Aside from bartering with the DM for something more interesting, I don't see how you could make it better than burning hands.

It isn't magical which is nice, so if you need to burn, poison, freeze, power or desiccate something in an anti-magic field you have that unique ability to do so. Making it do something in combat that you as a caster couldn't already do doesn't seem likely though.

I suppose you can use it while casting a quickened real spell, so it does let you sidestep that limitation as well.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Meh, that spell is only worth the 4th level spell slot if hitting a resistant or immune target repeatedly with the same damage type. Its one of the few things that can make Witch bolt actually worthwhile. Using it to inflict a little extra damage on one target of a single turn AOE isn't exactly a great boon.

Elemental Bane also effects an additional creature per added spell level. (2 at 5th level, 3 at 6th, etc.) So if you've got a breath weapon with a decent area, it might be worth up-casting.

[MaxWilson]

I can't seem to find anything (class, features, etc.) that synergize with the breath weapon. I'm basically wanting to make a dragonborn warlock with Tiamat as my fiendish patron. Where should I go from here to get the most bang for my buck? If I focus on Eldritch Blast, I see no reason not to be doing that instead of using my once-per-wait_forever_and_a_day breath attack, so I feel blade or maybe even chain is appropriate; but what then?

Help would greatly be appreciated, my fellow giants!

If optimization tricks require not being a warlock, I'll gladly listen too, of course!

Well, you could throw a net first to restrain your target, then follow up with your breath weapon the next round. If the net still has him restrained he'll take disadvantage on his Dex saves, which could boost your breath weapon a bit.

At my table, the dragonborn breath weapon is a bonus action. Otherwise it's too weak to be even slightly interesting.

[Stan]

It would be nice if there were a feat to increase the breath weapon's power for those who want to focus on it more.

Something like pick 2 from below (this is off the top of my head, not well thought out):
double range (60' line or 30' cone)
damage is d8's instead of d6's
activated as a bonus action
use 2 per short rest (or tie it to a stat like once per con bonus, or other ability, I dunno)

Actually, it'd be cool if there were racial feats for most of the races, to boost specific racial abilities.

[Discord]

The Channel Divinity feature on a Tempest Domain Cleric, and the Level 6th feature synergize well with a lightening dragonborn's breath weapon.

[Daishain]

Elemental Bane also effects an additional creature per added spell level. (2 at 5th level, 3 at 6th, etc.) So if you've got a breath weapon with a decent area, it might be worth up-casting.
15' cone or 30' line. Not a bad area, but not a great one either. Let's assume you can hit four targets at once. Unless they're really clustered together, that's a pretty generous number. Let's also assume you're hitting them at character level 16+ so the damage from the breath weapon is maxed out (5d6), and you have access to high level spell slots. And finally, since this is a spell best used for DOT, let's assume that you can use the breath weapon on the same targets three times in a row.

So, we upcast EB to 7th level to affect all 4 targets. That's an extra 2d6 damage each, resistances and immunities are downgraded a level

Against targets that don't have immunity, you're dealing an average of 24.5 (73.5 after 3 rounds) damage. Against targets that do, you're dealing 15.75 (47.25)

In terms of just what the spell is doing, it is dealing an extra 15.75 (47.25) damage on resistant or immune targets, and 7 (21) on normal.

Alternatively, since L3 slots are pretty darn cheap compared to L7, you could just cast fireball three times in a row instead. Immune enemies of course take no damage, but resistants take 14 (42), standard take 28 (84), and you are affecting a much larger area than the breath weapon, making it easy to hit more targets.

So yeah, only useful when trying to force an immune or resistant target to take damage, and it generally is easier to just switch damage types. You could pair EB with Fireball for some pretty impressive damage to normally resistant targets, but then your spell expenditure is really going through the roof.

[Naanomi]

Oh I agree it is an awful use of Elemental Bane, but when trying to optimize (especially somethings without a lot of support) it helps to at least have all your options in the discussion, even awful ones

[BladeWing81]

It would be nice if there were a feat to increase the breath weapon's power for those who want to focus on it more.

Something like pick 2 from below (this is off the top of my head, not well thought out):
double range (60' line or 30' cone)
damage is d8's instead of d6's
activated as a bonus action
use 2 per short rest (or tie it to a stat like once per con bonus, or other ability, I dunno)

Actually, it'd be cool if there were racial feats for most of the races, to boost specific racial abilities.

increased damage and to be used as a bonus action would be incredible, even if you could only use it only once per long rest.
I hace a 13 lvl dragonborn but I don't think I've used the breath weapon more than 8 times in all my play time with that character, it's just not worth it.

[R.Shackleford]

The Channel Divinity feature on a Tempest Domain Cleric, and the Level 6th feature synergize well with a lightening dragonborn's breath weapon.

I was about to mention tempest cleric, however, I'm not sure how the tempest ability is worded. Does it need to be a spell or just any lightning or thunder damage?

Maximizing Lightning damage would be nice.

[Hrugner]

I was about to mention tempest cleric, however, I'm not sure how the tempest ability is worded. Does it need to be a spell or just any lightning or thunder damage?

Maximizing Lightning damage would be nice.

It just says "when you roll lightning damage", which annoyingly makes it not last an entire spell or effect, but does let it effect this breath weapon.

[Waffle_Iron]

Well, you could throw a net first to restrain your target, then follow up with your breath weapon the next round. If the net still has him restrained he'll take disadvantage on his Dex saves, which could boost your breath weapon a bit.

At my table, the dragonborn breath weapon is a bonus action. Otherwise it's too weak to be even slightly interesting.

I kept it as a regular action, but gave it recharge 5+, as that's what the real dracoforms get. It's already small and weak, so I figured it was either "quick" or "often".

I opted for often. It's useful enough as a non magical elemental damage source, and being up more often means more utility. I run my games... I dunno, 80% combat as war, 20% combat as sport, so the additional utility goes a lot farther than a one time stackable damage boost.

Looks like you opted for quick. How's that working at your table? genuinely curious.

[MaxWilson]

I kept it as a regular action, but gave it recharge 5+, as that's what the real dracoforms get. It's already small and weak, so I figured it was either "quick" or "often".

I opted for often. It's useful enough as a non magical elemental damage source, and being up more often means more utility. I run my games... I dunno, 80% combat as war, 20% combat as sport, so the additional utility goes a lot farther than a one time stackable damage boost.

Looks like you opted for quick. How's that working at your table? genuinely curious.

No impact so far, because by the time I invented this house rule, the only dragonborn PC so far was dead.

Oh! Except there was another dragonborn in a one-shot, but I think I forgot to tell him about the rule change. Whoops, my bad. If someone makes a "real" dragonborn PC, or asks about one, I will tell them then.

I like your thinking on the recharge action; it does kind of bug me that my version of the rule is different from the way real dragon breath works.

[Ralanr]

Doesn't work though because the breath weapon isn't a spell.

Awesome freaking idea though. I'd love to do it if I weren't a RAW stickler. And I mean, god dang would this be a cool thing.

Really? Damn. The synergy would have been beautiful.

[EvanescentHero]

I've been toying with various ideas to buff the breath weapon for a while now. I like the idea of the recharge mechanic, because I think making it usable more often will help. I could also buff the damage. I also like an idea I saw a long time ago, to make it replace one of your attacks if you have multiple. I probably wouldn't do all of these, but one or two might help.

In all honesty, I think some other race's powers would benefit from scaling too. The tieflings in my party love hellish rebuke, but it's gonna stop being useful before too long.

[R.Shackleford]

Really? Damn. The synergy would have been beautiful.

I think more things need to be generalized and not specify spells or whatever.

Have some damn flexibility in the game.

Metamagic Breath Weapon? Yes.

[Hrugner]

I think more things need to be generalized and not specify spells or whatever.

Have some damn flexibility in the game.

Metamagic Breath Weapon? Yes.

I doubt that's in the works from the people who brought us "use the attack action to make a ranged weapon attack with a ranged weapon" style specifics.

[R.Shackleford]

I doubt that's in the works from the people who brought us "use the attack action to make a ranged weapon attack with a ranged weapon" style specifics.

Well yeah, they said "less fiddly rules" but just gave us fiddly rules.

There is a ton of combinations for the attack action alone. Siigh.

What a fricken mess.

I just think in 5.5 they need to actually go less fiddly.

[Inevitability]

It is arguable, but depending on whether a dragonborn's ability to breathe fire is independent of their physical body, druid may work. Firebreathing spider, go!

[R.Shackleford]

It is arguable, but depending on whether a dragonborn's ability to breathe fire is independent of their physical body, druid may work. Firebreathing spider, go!

Well...

From SRD

"You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense."

So yes or no depending on how breath weapons are ruled. Do you need breath weapon glands or is it magical. If magical, not a spell though, then the new form could use it. If you need glands then no.

Breath weapon is quite weak so I don't see it being overpowered to let it work with wildshape.

[JackPhoenix]

It is arguable, but depending on whether a dragonborn's ability to breathe fire is independent of their physical body, druid may work. Firebreathing spider, go!

Firebreathing spiders? What is this, Australia?

[R.Shackleford]

Firebreathing spiders? What is this, Australia?

Well given that you think it's Australia it is Probabaly the U.S.

Every time someone thinks the scariest type of creature is in Australia it ends up being in the U.S... The U.S oppossum is downright scary and the Aussie Oppossum is down right cute. Everyone thinks Australian gators are scarier (they are bigger) but the American ones will climb fences and trees..

Stereotypes aren't everything ;p

[Naanomi]

Well given that you think it's Australia it is Probabaly the U.S.

Every time someone thinks the scariest type of creature is in Australia it ends up being in the U.S...
It's those 'worlds most deadly' style learning channel shows... Snakes, spiders, sea-creatures... Most poisonous... You can always rely on Australia to fill up at least 1/3 of those lists.

My Australia-like continent in my home setting is where Goblinoids originate and Thri-Kreeb live. One of the few places on the map no one has gone to in-game (we've had games there for years)

[R.Shackleford]

It's those 'worlds most deadly' style learning channel shows... Snakes, spiders, sea-creatures... Most poisonous... You can always rely on Australia to fill up at least 1/3 of those lists.

My Australia-like continent in my home setting is where Goblinoids originate and Thri-Kreeb live. One of the few places on the map no one has gone to in-game (we've had games there for years)

Oh no, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't have their share of crazy deadly stuff. But if you just go by stereotypes, you Will be super surprised about what is scarier else where.

Seriously, Aussie oppossum and US oppossums must have been a mix up, Aussie ones are so freaking cute.