Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXVIII

[Heliomance]

A dimly-lit library. Rows of bookshelves line the walls, and as the camera slowly pans over them, we see that they are filled with gaming books. From the original brown-cover D&D manuals to the newest fifth edition supplements, we are given a brief but breathtaking history of over four decades of gaming in visual form.

A pair of feet, clad in Converse, appear. The camera pans back to reveal the Chairwoman as she strides out into Optimization Stadium. Slowly, she looks around at the battleground. Rapidly, we are shown shots of the gaming materials here assembled: books, miniatures, maps, dice. The Chairwoman reaches down and picks up a twenty-sided die. She rolls it, then turns to the camera... and smiles.

The camera pulls back from the smile to reveal... the Iron Gamers. Row upon row they stand, clad in the uniform of their trade: t-shirts with fantasy images, buttons with obscure quotes from novels and movies, dice bags at the ready. The shot dissolves into flames and the logo:


Iron Gamer

A montage of the contestants plays, with summaries of their optimization triumphs and achievements. Interspersed are brief interviews. Finally, though, the introductions are over. The contestants stand arrayed before the Chairwoman.

Chairwoman: We unveil the ingredient!

Tense music plays as the pedestal containing the mystery ingredient rises from below. Stacked neatly on the pedestal are copies of the Book of Exalted Deeds.

Chairwoman: This month's theme is... Risen Martyr! ALLEZ OPTIMISER!


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LXIX. Here in Optimisation Colosseum, contestants will endeavour to create an optimized and flavourful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20, as well as a "sweet spot" of their choosing that represents what they believe to be the high point of the build. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.

Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was a long time ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, May 29th, 2016 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairwoman, Heliomance. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, June 12th, 2016 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honourable mention. The honourable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honourable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honourable Mention will go to the chairwoman's favourite build.

The Builds

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210071)
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214198)
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217441)
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956)
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224008)
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304)
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229688)
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236908)
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786)
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243052)
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246072)
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249542)
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252923)
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13865473)
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255215)
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260333)
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263173)
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266709)
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270196)
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274122)
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279116)
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595)
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287314)
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291294)
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297327)
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302487)
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307823)
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312773)
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317934)
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325164)
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330890)
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336373-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LV)
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342807-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVI)
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349040-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVII)
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357412-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVIII)
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364667-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LIX)
Iron Chef LX: Lasher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371835-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXII)
Iron Cheff LXIII: Witchborn Binder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382632-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIII)
Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387166-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIV)
Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394981-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXV)
Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVI)
Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406613-Irogn-Chef-Optimisatiogn-Challegnge-ign-the-Playgrougnd-LXVII)
Iron Chef LXIX: Fang of Lolth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412530-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVIII)
Iron Chef LXIX: Shiba Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420165-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIX)
Iron Chef LXX: Order of the Bow Initiate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?425634-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXX)
Iron Chef LXXI: Silver Key (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?431484-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXI)
Iron Chef LXXII: Spellfire Channeler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439020-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXII)
Iron Chef LXXIII: Flux Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448596-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIII)
Iron Chef LXXIV: Crinti Shadow Marauder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458711-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIV)
Iron Chef LXXV: Thief of Life (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472831-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXV)
Iron Chef LXXVI: Legacy Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477153-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVI)
Iron Chef LXXVII: Great Rift Skyguard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482249-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXVII)

[Heliomance]

FAQ:
Q: What's this even about?
A: I'm glad you asked, actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415117&postcount=1)

Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

Q: What about 3.0 materials?
A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

Q: What about online sources in general?
A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it.

Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armour, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favourably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.

Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.

One Mistake, One Penalty

Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

Non-exhaustive list of examples:

Skills

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


Not allowed:

Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation



Prereqs

Allowed:

Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
(Trial, may be disallowed later)Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


Not Allowed:

"Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes



Other general things that are no longer allowed:

Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.

Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:

All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.

[Troacctid]

Wow, I never realized before how frontloaded this class is. Levels zero and one are legitimately great, but the quality starts dropping pretty dramatically as you take more levels.

Two questions.
1. What the heck is Protective Aura?
2. Does the multiclass restriction even do anything? You don't gain it until 10th level.

[Sian]

I've been sniffing a bit around the net and books and are inclined to believe that they mixed up the names of "protective aura" which some of the higher celestials, and the Saint Template listed in the book gets (Light for 20 feet, double strength Magic Circle, and Lesser Globe of Invulnerability), and the spell called Bastion of Good (page 92), which gives some of the same abilities (double strength Magic Circle, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, +4 Deflection AC, +4 on all saving throws against evil creatures). As for which one you get ... Chair?

[Inevitability]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/S7MDXFiMMGQ/hqdefault.jpg

I believe this may be useful.

[WhamBamSam]

I knew it. You monster.

Well, let's see what I can do with this.

[Sian]

that's first idea down the drain... Deathless aren't Undead type so even if i was willing to pay the feat tax, i can't use incarnum as you'd need Undead Meldshaper and that explicitly says you need to be Undead... Even if thematically its a perfect fit.

EDIT:

Did we ever get to a contest conclusion on how losing prerequisites work?

[Deadline]

Did we ever get to a contest conclusion on how losing prerequisites work?

It generally looks like that's been up to the judge's discretion.

[Troacctid]

For feats, it is quite clear-cut under the rules: you must meet the prerequisites to take or use the feat. I believe the book gives the example of a character who takes Strength damage losing the ability to Power Attack until the damage is healed, or something like that, IIRC.

[Amphetryon]

I look forward to the arguments about Elegance penalties for not entering Risen Martyr at the earliest possible level. :smalltongue:

[Efrate]

I have an idea, and gonna have time, I might submit for the first time.

Question for chair:

What up with protective aura? Is it as the one from the saint template?

[Sian]

For feats, it is quite clear-cut under the rules: you must meet the prerequisites to take or use the feat. I believe the book gives the example of a character who takes Strength damage losing the ability to Power Attack until the damage is healed, or something like that, IIRC.

Right... PHB p87, last sentence under prerequisites.

[The Viscount]

While we're getting an explanation of what protective aura, could we also get a clear ruling for the contest on Final ascension? as Troacctid mentioned, it is listed at 10, but makes mention of its effect (you can only take levels in this class once you enter) kicking it at first, sort of backed up by the "special" section of prerequisites. I'm assuming that it means once we die and become 0th level risen martyrs, we must finish the class. Is this correct?

Second aspect of this: How are we to deal with the Final Ascension class feature taking you whole into the upper planes? Does this mean our character, for the purposes of this contest, can't gain levels in other classes after 10 in the SI? Can we gain levels after 10 if we have a means out of the upper planes?

[Thurbane]

Risen Martyr eh? Nice. I may just see if I can get an entry in...

[Venger]

the protective aura is probably the supernatural ability angels have.

[Amphetryon]

Nimbus of Light is a required Feat for this round. It serves as a prerequisite for two additional Feats, Holy Radiance and Stigmata. By my reading, a Risen Martyr may be functionally unable to use either of those two Feats because of Spiritual Body. Could we get a ruling on this?

[Sian]

... Why would Risen Martyr be unable to use Holy Radiance?

[WhamBamSam]

... Why would Risen Martyr be unable to use Holy Radiance?I think he's worried about taking damage from it, but Deathless aren't Undead, so that's not an issue. Stigmata does present something of a problem, unless the Risen Martyr can just use it freely due to Con damage immunity.

[Efrate]

Nothing in sanctified spells says you cannot cast the spell if you are immune to the damage or do not have the relevant stat.

[Deadline]

Nothing in sanctified spells says you cannot cast the spell if you are immune to the damage or do not have the relevant stat.

Well, the PHB section on components (pg. 174, first sentence under Components heading), is what stops you there.

[Amphetryon]

I think he's worried about taking damage from it, but Deathless aren't Undead, so that's not an issue. Stigmata does present something of a problem, unless the Risen Martyr can just use it freely due to Con damage immunity.

I am not entirely convinced that every prospective judge will agree with the portion in bold, barring specific instruction one way or the other from the Chair.

[Efrate]

The way I'm reading sanctified component and the line from PHB, you should be able to cast the spells as long as you have the stat that they are damaging. You couldn't cast anything with a con cost since you don't have con, but you should be able to cast anything with any other stat damage.

Immune to damage to physical ability scores doesn't mean you cannot voluntarily give some of it up, least that is how I see it. Dam.age is always the results of an attack as far as I could tell. A voluntary sacrifice is not damage because it is not the result of an attack. As far as PHB and damage goes, the only thing I found is right under damage on page 134 "When your attack succeeds, you deal damage." Thats the only thing I found in PHB or DMG that even kind of defines damage.

Also deathless and undead can have mental ability scores lowered by damage but not drain, never read that always thought it was all ability scores. Only constructs are immune to all ability damage. Not sure if that is ever going to come up but interesting that I have not noticed it before.

[Sian]

Deathless are very similar to undead, and if sweeped with a detect undead they pling (in an off-key tone, noting the caster that there's something similar but not quite), and many of their rules are writen in an, as undead but in reverse, BUT, other than Hide from Undead, and Undeath to Death, none of the spells aimed at interacting with undeads work at all, if not having the reverse effect.

[WhamBamSam]

I am not entirely convinced that every prospective judge will agree with the portion in bold, barring specific instruction one way or the other from the Chair.It's explicitly a different creature type. The things that do affect undead and deathless in the same way (like Undeath to Death) are directly stated to do so in the description of the Deathless type.

[Amphetryon]

It's explicitly a different creature type. The things that do affect undead and deathless in the same way (like Undeath to Death) are directly stated to do so in the description of the Deathless type.

I am not disagreeing with your reading. I am acknowledging that different judges have, historically, made different rulings on lines of text within a given SI that others have read as explicitly different than the rulings of those judges. Some of those differing rulings have been allowed to stand, impacting scoring. Before any of us get too far down the rabbit hole, it seems to me that a word from the Chair might help in this matter.

After all, I read the verbiage of Protective Aura as pretty explicit, and there have been no less than 3 questions about it in the thread thus far. What you or I see as explicit is not necessarily what a given judge or other contestant sees.


Dam.age is always the results of an attack as far as I could tell. Off the top of my head, the game explicitly (there's that word again) has rules for Falling Damage, which is not necessarily the result of an attack.

[Deadline]

Immune to damage to physical ability scores doesn't mean you cannot voluntarily give some of it up, least that is how I see it.

Do you have a source in the rules for "voluntarily giving up ability score points" that isn't called Ability Damage? Because the Sanctified Spells text in the BED specifically calls the Sacrifice component "Ability Drain, Ability Damage, or occasionally greater sacrifices (a level or even the caster's life)."

The Deathless can't pay Ability Drain costs, can pay the level or life (probably), and can only pay the Ability Damage costs for Mental ability scores.

[Troacctid]

I am not disagreeing with your reading. I am acknowledging that different judges have, historically, made different rulings on lines of text within a given SI that others have read as explicitly different than the rulings of those judges. Some of those differing rulings have been allowed to stand, impacting scoring. Before any of us get too far down the rabbit hole, it seems to me that a word from the Chair might help in this matter.
If a judge were to rule that Deathless are Undead, that would be in direct contradiction to the rules, which very clearly state that Deathless is an entirely different creature type from Undead. That would be like if a judge ruled that an Aasimar could not become a Risen Martyr because Outsiders cannot be raised from the dead, or that a warlock could not take Exalted feats because warlocks are always evil.

[Amphetryon]

If a judge were to rule that Deathless are Undead, that would be in direct contradiction to the rules, which very clearly state that Deathless is an entirely different creature type from Undead. That would be like if a judge ruled that an Aasimar could not become a Risen Martyr because Outsiders cannot be raised from the dead.

As indicated, a traipse through past rounds shows judges sometimes making rulings that were in direct contradiction with at least one potentially valid reading of the RAW on an entrant's abilities. In some cases, those rulings stood, and impacted scores. I am not debating whether your reading, or another, is the correct one regarding Deathless. I am asking for clarification from the Chair, before any builds are presented to any prospective judges.

[LordOfCain]

I will consider putting in a build.

[Thurbane]

I can't think of anything to synergize with RM abilities, so I might need to take another tack to get an entry ready... :smallbiggrin:

[daremetoidareyo]

I got a RAWtarded idea for this.

[Heliomance]

Wow, I never realized before how frontloaded this class is. Levels zero and one are legitimately great, but the quality starts dropping pretty dramatically as you take more levels.

Two questions.
1. What the heck is Protective Aura?
2. Does the multiclass restriction even do anything? You don't gain it until 10th level.
1. See below.
2. Um... I think I'll interpret the "once he rises and adopts this class" line as meaning it takes effect from level 0. If not for that I'd say it only applies at level 10.


I've been sniffing a bit around the net and books and are inclined to believe that they mixed up the names of "protective aura" which some of the higher celestials, and the Saint Template listed in the book gets (Light for 20 feet, double strength Magic Circle, and Lesser Globe of Invulnerability), and the spell called Bastion of Good (page 92), which gives some of the same abilities (double strength Magic Circle, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, +4 Deflection AC, +4 on all saving throws against evil creatures). As for which one you get ... Chair?

These both sound reasonable, but I'm AFB at the moment. What's the difference between the two things?


While we're getting an explanation of what protective aura, could we also get a clear ruling for the contest on Final ascension? as Troacctid mentioned, it is listed at 10, but makes mention of its effect (you can only take levels in this class once you enter) kicking it at first, sort of backed up by the "special" section of prerequisites. I'm assuming that it means once we die and become 0th level risen martyrs, we must finish the class. Is this correct?

Second aspect of this: How are we to deal with the Final Ascension class feature taking you whole into the upper planes? Does this mean our character, for the purposes of this contest, can't gain levels in other classes after 10 in the SI? Can we gain levels after 10 if we have a means out of the upper planes?

Once you become 0th level Risen Martyrs, you must finish the class, yes. However... on actually reading that ability, absolutely nothing says you die. So, a 10th level Risen Martyr who gains enough experience to attain another level is immediately involuntarily teleported to the Upper Planes. I guess your god gives you a good job speech, a firm handshake, and a gift voucher or an all-expenses-paid holiday or something. Though given that they apparently aren't willing to pay your return travel costs from the meeting, that might be a bit optimistic.

Anyway, yeah. You end up on the Upper PLanes somewhere. I see nothing preventing you from getting on with stuff after that.


Nimbus of Light is a required Feat for this round. It serves as a prerequisite for two additional Feats, Holy Radiance and Stigmata. By my reading, a Risen Martyr may be functionally unable to use either of those two Feats because of Spiritual Body. Could we get a ruling on this?

I see nothing preventing you from using Holy Radiance. Stigmata can't be used, on the other hand, as you have no Con score.


I am not entirely convinced that every prospective judge will agree with the portion in bold, barring specific instruction one way or the other from the Chair.

Deathless are not Undead. They are separate creature types.

[Sian]

These both sound reasonable, but I'm AFB at the moment. What's the difference between the two things?

Bastion of Good:

(Book of Exalted Deeds, p. 92)

Abjuration [Good]
Level: Apostle of Peace 7, Cleric 7,
Components: V, S, Abstinence
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 20 ft.
Area: 20-ft.-radius spherical emanation centered on you
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

A nimbus of light surrounds you, protecting you and those around you from spell effects and the attacks of evil creatures. The aura excludes all spell effects of up to 3rd level, exactly as a lesser globe of invulnerability does.

In addition, the nimbus protects creatures within it as a magic circle against evil at double strength. Warded creatures gain a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saves against attacks from evil creatures, and they are protected from possession, mental control, and bodily contact by summoned or conjured creatures.

Abstinence Component: You must fast for 24 hours before casting this spell.


Protective Aura (as per aforementioned Celestials and Saint Template in BoED), gives Lesser globe of invulnerability, Double-strength Magic Circle against Evil and light for 20feet

[Heliomance]

Bastion of Good:


Protective Aura (as per aforementioned Celestials and Saint Template in BoED), gives Lesser globe of invulnerability, Double-strength Magic Circle against Evil and light for 20feet

Okay, they are in fact identical except that the Protective Aura sheds light. I'm going to say... they get the Celestial and Saint ability, so have fun being a walking torch.

[Jormengand]

Trying to make my character work is making me dizzy, but I think I have an idea or two.

[GnomishPride]

I have the glimmerings of an idea. Tentatively entering.

[Deadline]

This ingredient is ... pretty bad. I'll putter around with it so see if I can make my initial idea work.

[KrimsonNekros]

got an idea I'm running with for this one. hopefully I can get it in.

[Sian]

got 2 very distinct ideas, and I'm hopefully able to stop myself from procrastinating enough to actually finish both

[Amphetryon]

First idea proven not compatible with the RAW by an aside. On to the next.

[Thurbane]

Got a build pretty much nailed down, just need to finalize feats and skills, and slot it into tables. :smallwink:

[Zaq]

Ugh, this doesn't resonate with me. The problem isn't that the class locks you into it (though that is a little bit annoying)—the problem is that this is another ingredient where the majority of the abilities are passive, making them hard to really showcase.

I'll keep thinking about it, but I'll be honest, I just don't like mostly-passive ingredients.

[Jormengand]

Ugh, this doesn't resonate with me. The problem isn't that the class locks you into it (though that is a little bit annoying)—the problem is that this is another ingredient where the majority of the abilities are passive, making them hard to really showcase.

I'll keep thinking about it, but I'll be honest, I just don't like mostly-passive ingredients.

Yeah, honestly I was just thinking "Let's be immune to everything" but there are easier ways to get most of the stuff it gives you anyway.

[KrimsonNekros]

Well I have my dish assembled, now i just need to get into a presentable state.

[Amphetryon]

Table constructed. Write-up forthcoming, I hope.

[Korahir]

I don't know why, but I think i got something for this. Now it is all about sitting down and fixing the details.

[Heliomance]

Uh... So it's the deadline today and I haven't had any builds in. Is it really that bad a class, even by Iron Chef standards?

[Thurbane]

Uh... So it's the deadline today and I haven't had any builds in. Is it really that bad a class, even by Iron Chef standards?

...it's pretty bad. If you extend the deadline 3-4 or so days, I should be able to get a build in.

[Korahir]

Yeah, as I said, I had an idea, but it does nothing with risen martyr. It's an all passive abilities mess of a prestige class. There literally are only roleplay reasons to enter this class.

[WhamBamSam]

That kinda snuck up on me. I also might be able to hammer out the details on my build with a few more days.

[Sian]

yeah, I've had a few ideas, but the class is so passive that its hard getting anything strong out of it, and it doesn't exactly helps that a couple of my ideas ran aground on not qualifying for its primary shtick by entering Risen Martyr.

[The Viscount]

It's bad, but its not (to me) the worst thing to cook with, because there's at least some idea of flavor here.

Does this mean I'm actually the first to submit for once?

[Inevitability]

Uh... So it's the deadline today and I haven't had any builds in. Is it really that bad a class, even by Iron Chef standards?

I don't think a class's power greatly influences the number of submitted builds. Consider classes like the Mystic Theurge or Ur Priest, which are considered strong picks when optimized well. However, these classes' lack of actual class features will make it very hard to actually make a build around them.

Risen Martyr isn't unpopular because it is weak, but because of the passive and boring class features.

[Macabaret]

It's apparently been awhile since I've done one of these. I'd forgotten how much time and work tend to go into a build.
I started two builds and worked on them simultaneously (which does help my ability to get either one done by the deadline).
It's a holiday weekend here in the 'States, so Sun and Mon are both spoken for. But with another five days or a week or so, I'd be able to finish at least one of them.

[Heliomance]

Okey doke, I'll extend it another week.

[daremetoidareyo]

Okey doke, I'll extend it another week.

Thank you heliomance. My son was born last sunday and this week just melted under the sheer amount of learning and troubleshooting. I have a build that's 90% done. I'de hate to have wasted that time.

[Inevitability]

Thank you heliomance. My son was born last sunday and this week just melted under the sheer amount of learning and troubleshooting. I have a build that's 90% done. I'de hate to have wasted that time.

Congrats on becoming a father/mother!

[The Viscount]

Thank you heliomance. My son was born last sunday and this week just melted under the sheer amount of learning and troubleshooting. I have a build that's 90% done. I'de hate to have wasted that time.

Congrats! Glad to see other chefs working with this ingredient.

[Amphetryon]

Thank you heliomance. My son was born last sunday and this week just melted under the sheer amount of learning and troubleshooting. I have a build that's 90% done. I'de hate to have wasted that time.

Congrats. It's just possible that you'll have time to both finish the build AND sleep this week. :smallwink:

[The Viscount]

You can do BOTH?

Man, I wish I could manage that. I always block out what i'm going to do with my entry, but when the time come to write it all up I always end up doing it in a late night 6 hour bender. Effective, just not nice on the sleep schedule.

[riccaru]

Thank you heliomance. My son was born last sunday and this week just melted under the sheer amount of learning and troubleshooting. I have a build that's 90% done. I'de hate to have wasted that time.

Have you tried powering it off and powering it back on?

[Venger]

Have you tried powering it off and powering it back on?

NB: do not power your baby off

[Masamourne]

Hi everyone o/

I'm new to the forum, asking stuff in the threads and learning new things. This week i saw the " Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground ", that ZOMG cool idea of making new characters.


I don't know if i don't understand clearly or have not really found, but where I can find the location where the characters are posted?


Thanks for the attention ^^

[Darrin]

Idea #1: Fairly straight-forward build, but requires the DM to agree to a very klunky ruling on an oddball rules interpretation. And the combo doesn't work until level 20, so there's 19 levels of meh to slog through.

Idea #2: More solid rules-wise, but can't quite fit everything in pre-epic... feats won't fit, class levels won't fit, and has trouble finishing off the SI. Ugh.

Idea #3: Another straight-forward build, and works a lot earlier than #1, but relies very heavily on a very specific RAW ruling... kinda a crapshoot, I figure 50/50 the judge says "Oh hell no!" or "Yes this works, but it's still a twink move."

Couldn't quite get enthused enough about #3 to flesh it out, so I gave up and was planning to judge. Then the extension is announced... I figure, hey, dust off #3, at least submit it, maybe with a low turnout I'll luck into a bronze.

So I dug back into the Deathless type, was looking around for rules wrinkles, then I checked another sourcebook... and finally found something interesting.

Idea #4: Hey, looks like this one might work!

[Ruslan]

Characters aren't posted, but sent by Private Message.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, May 29th, 2016 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairwoman, Heliomance.

[Masamourne]

Oh, alright

I'v become a little bit confused with this haha

All the character builds are sent by PM and no one, including the winners, are posted later?

Thanks for the reply o/

[Deadline]

Oh, alright

I'v become a little bit confused with this haha

All the character builds are sent by PM and no one, including the winners, are posted later?

Thanks for the reply o/

Character builds are PM'd to the Chair (that would be Heliomance) before the submission deadline. Then Heliomance will post up the builds. Then people who didn't submit a build can step up to judge the builds. Once the judging deadline passes, the Chair compiles the scores and posts up which builds won, and who all the builds belong to.

Check out any of the past contest (links in the OP) to see how it works (and view all the past builds and winners).

[Thurbane]

Need to commit some hours to formatting tables...not sure how I feel about my entry.

Not sure if I'm really using the secret ingredient, or desperately trying to build a competent character in spite of it.

[Sian]

suddenly stumbled over a cool synergy so I'm building the table now

[Darrin]

Submitted.

Anyone else getting close?

[Thurbane]

Real life TPK'd my time to do this. I'll post my build stub after the reveal...

[WhamBamSam]

Submitted.

Anyone else getting close?I've got all my tables done. Just have to do various write-ups.

[Zaq]

Definitely nothing for me this round, unfortunately. A combination of an uninspiring ingredient and a separate project I'm working on means that I just haven't been able to get myself excited for this one, sorry to say. But I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone else has come up with.

[KrimsonNekros]

I just haven't gotten the tables written out yet. Otherwise the build is pretty much done. That and I need to do writeups. busy weekend for me.

[OMG PONIES]

Just got back from vacation, so no time to make a build for this beautiful stinker of a class.

[Thurbane]

What's the consensus - is this the hardest IC ingredient so far to make anything useful out of?

[daremetoidareyo]

What's the consensus - is this the hardest IC ingredient so far to make anything useful out of?

Define useful.

I think that this particular ingredient required a lot of optimization bricks and subsystems to pull off. An optimization brick is a hunk of user generated rules lawyering that might fly if the DM just doesn't care too hard.

I mean this prestige class stunk: It didn't advance casting, rage, reats, sneak attack, skirmish, TWF, bab, saves, companions, or anything that a base class offers. Working with that is difficult, especially with these lame immunities as class features that any caster or WBL enemy can get around. What you are left with is a globe of invulnerability and a type change to celestial. I reckon those two traits are the entirety of what people worked with.

[WhamBamSam]

Build in. I actually ended up sort of liking my entry, strangely enough.

[Sian]

lost a weekend in a new game ... will post stub idea when chair have revealed

[Deadline]

What's the consensus - is this the hardest IC ingredient so far to make anything useful out of?

I actually had an idea for this one, but it was leaning heavy on fluff and very little to uniquely distinguish it mechanically. It would have been an average melee support combatant at best with a few tricks, but nothing I felt like entering.

[Amphetryon]

My idea was a rules-argument in the guise of a Character concept. Such things tend to do poorly in this environment.

[Jormengand]

I had an idea of trying to be immune to everything under the sun and then tanking like a boss, but risen martyr just eats too many of your levels to do that effectively.

[daremetoidareyo]

My idea was a rules-argument in the guise of a Character concept. Such things tend to do poorly in this environment.

I feel like the cheese fondue clause justifies a rules arguments as character concepts if you pack enough in there and swing for the bleachers.

[Troacctid]

I feel like the cheese fondue clause justifies a rules arguments as character concepts if you pack enough in there and swing for the bleachers.

Depends on the judge. If it were me, I wouldn't give you any points for a trick if I don't think it works, so if it's the foundation of your build, you're definitely going to fare very poorly in my scorings. On the other hand, if it does work, it could potentially land you a good power score, but you might take a hit in elegance if your trick relies on favorable DM rulings and/or is obviously against the spirit of the rules—which is still probably a net positive for the overall score in a round like this where power scores are likely to be on the low side, although it is definitely a risky move. You can minimize the risk by setting it up so that the trick is a cherry on top of a build that functions just fine without it (like Ivarr Deathborn last round, who managed to get away without losing points despite trying to use an infinite loop that wasn't actually an infinite loop).

[The Viscount]

So it looks like everybody who is cooking is in, right? Shall we then?

[OMG PONIES]

Define useful.

I think that this particular ingredient required a lot of optimization bricks and subsystems to pull off. An optimization brick is a hunk of user generated rules lawyering that might fly if the DM just doesn't care too hard.

I mean this prestige class stunk: It didn't advance casting, rage, reats, sneak attack, skirmish, TWF, bab, saves, companions, or anything that a base class offers. Working with that is difficult, especially with these lame immunities as class features that any caster or WBL enemy can get around. What you are left with is a globe of invulnerability and a type change to celestial. I reckon those two traits are the entirety of what people worked with.

Not to delve into speculation, but I think the whole concept of Deathless drew some interest from possible chefs. Also, Final Ascension is just weird & vague enough for someone to find a unique use for it. But aside from that, I'd be very interested to see if anyone could showcase the odd smattering of SLAs the class provides.


My idea was a rules-argument in the guise of a Character concept. Such things tend to do poorly in this environment.

Lump it, I'm more interested in unique tricks than high scores. Entertain me! :smalltongue:

[Heliomance]

Let's get some builds up in here, shall we?

"Well, that's certainly a lot of sugar he's used!"
"It certainly is! I don't think I've seen anything quite so sweet on Iron Chef before!"



The Care Bear
http://www.clevelandchildrensmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Funshine-e1352168776528.jpg
“I’m going to love and tolerate the **** out of you.”
LG Badger Hengeyokai Beguiler 3/Marshal 2/Emissary of Barachiel 3/Risen Martyr 10/ Emissary of Barachiel 5

Stats(with racial adjustments)
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 8(10)
Int 16
Wis 12(10)
Cha 16(Increases here, Cha at lvl20 is 25)
Build


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Beguiler 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Balance 4, Bluff 4, Concentration 4, Diplomacy 4, Escape Artist 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 1, Knowledge (Local) 1, Sleight of Hand 4, Speak Language (Celestial) 1(Starting Languages: Common, Hengeyokai, Goblin, Giant, Nezumi) Spellcraft 1, Tumble 4, Use Magic Device 4
Servant of the Heavens
Armored Mage, Trapfinding


2nd
Beguiler 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
Balance 5, Bluff 5, Concentration 5, Diplomacy 5, Escape Artist 5, Sense Motive 1, Sleight of Hand 5, Tumble 5, Use Magic Device 5

Cloaked Casting (+1 DC), Surprise Casting


3rd
Beguiler 3
+1
+1
+1
+3
Bluff 6, Concentration 6, Diplomacy 6, Escape Artist 6, Sense Motive 3, Sleight of Hand 6, Tumble 6, Use Magic Device 6
Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Advanced Learning (Alibi)


4th
Marshal 1
+1
+3
+1
+5
Bluff 7, Diplomacy 7, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Sense Motive 4
(B)Words of Creation
Bonus Feat, Minor Aura (Motivate Charisma)


5th
Marshal 2
+2
+4
+1
+6
Bluff 8, Diplomacy 8, Sense Motive 5, Speak Language (Orc, Undercommon, Draconic, Gnoll)

Major Aura +1 (Resilient Troops)


6th
Emissary of Barachiel 1
+2
+4
+1
+8
Concentration 9, Diplomacy 9, Use Magic Device 9
Nimbus of Light
Calling, Spells


7th
Emissary of Barachiel 2
+3
+4
+1
+9
Concentration 10, Diplomacy 10, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 4, Use Magic Device 10




8th
Emissary of Barachiel 3
+4
+5
+2
+9
Concentration 11, Diplomacy 11, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 5, Listen 3, Use Magic Device 11

Conversion


9th
Risen Martyr 0 +1
+4
+5
+2
+11
Concentration 12, Diplomacy 12, Listen 4, Spot 2
Sacred Vow
Spiritual Body, Cha +2, Deflection, Holy Purpose +1


10th
Risen Martyr 2
+5
+5
+2
+12
Concentration 13, Diplomacy 13, Listen 5, Spot 4

Bless, Magic Circle Against Evil


11th
Risen Martyr 3
+5
+6
+3
+12
Concentration 14, Diplomacy 14, Listen 6, Spot 6

Daylight, Holy Purpose +2


12th
Risen Martyr 4
+6/+1
+6
+3
+13
Concentration 15, Diplomacy 15, Listen 8, Spot 7
Vow of Nonviolence
Acid Immunity, Detect Evil


13th
Risen Martyr 5
+6/+1
+6
+3
+13
Concentration 16, Diplomacy 16, Listen 9, Spot 9

Cha +4, Protective Aura


14th
Risen Martyr 6
+7/+2
+7
+4
+14
Concentration 17, Diplomacy 17, Listen 11, Spot 10

Holy Purpose +3, Shield Other


15th
Risen Martyr 7
+7/+2
+7
+4
+14
Concentration 18, Diplomacy 18, Listen 12, Spot 12
Vow of Peace
Celestial Brilliance, Cold Immunity


16th
Risen Martyr 8
+8/+3
+7
+4
+15
Diplomacy 19, Listen 14, Spot 14

Holy Aura


17th
Risen Martyr 9
+8/+3
+8
+5
+15
Diplomacy 20, Listen 16, Spot 16

Electricity Immunity, Holy Purpose +4


18th
Risen Martyr 10
+9/+4
+8
+5
+16
Diplomacy 21, Listen 18, Spot 18
Lifesense
Perfection, Final Ascension


19th
Emissary of Barachiel 4
+10/+5
+8
+5
+17
Diplomacy 22, Listen 21, Spot 21




20th
Emissary of Barachiel 5
+10/+5
+8
+5
+17
Diplomacy 23, Listen 23, Sense Motive 7, Spot 23
Feats
New Class Abilities


Spells
Spells per Day


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
5/
3/
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
6/
4/
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
6/
5/
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
6/
5/
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
6/
5/
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
6/
5/0*
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
6/
5/1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
6/
5/2
/0*
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

[/tr]

19th
6/
5/3
/1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
6/
5/3
/2
/0*
-
-
-
-
-
-



Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th



6th
all
all/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
all/
all/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
all/
all/3
/2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
all/
all/4
/3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
all/
all/4
/3
/2
-
-
-
-
-
-


Beguiler spells before slash/Emissary of Barachiel spells after slash in chart
Emissary of Barachiel Spells Known
1st:Magic Mouth, Ray of Hope, Sanctuary, Ventriloquism
2nd:Glitterdust, Hold Person, Suggestion
3rd:Charm Monster, Haste
Backstory
The Care Bear was a simple fool. He always possessed kindness and great piety, but he always seemed to lack plain horse sense. He was trained in the ways of gentle suggestion and manipulation, he learned to nudge the minds of others toward those things that he wanted. For some strange reason He got it into his furry head that he if he could learn to nudge someone’s mind in one direction or another, then he could politely but firmly shove it in one direction, namely the path of righteousness.

Fool though he may have been, he was persuasive. He gathered a company of similarly minded creatures from the Hengeyokai village (who knows how many he “nudged” toward following him) and began styling himself as the leader of an army of sorts. He had enough raw force of personality and will to rally them under his banner, calling themselves the warriors of virtue. They were unarmored and unarmed, claiming that love and peace were their weapon and armor (your guess is as good as any as to which was which). Somewhere along the way, the Care Bear found himself a holy cause to follow, the noble cause of Barachiel to bring evil humanoids to the way of good. Having a dogma to follow only strengthened his conviction, and tightened his hold on his followers.

Their cause was of course, doomed from the start. They made it to the first Gnoll camp, where the Care Bear loudly declared that he was leader of a group of powerful warriors that were invading the encampment to force the evil creatures to see the light. He neglected to mention they planned to do this peacefully. Not that it would have mattered. The Gnolls had long since learned to attack rather than parley with armies talking of religious conversion. Not a one of the warriors of virtue survived.

The Care Bear may not have been wise, but he was dedicated, pious, and so darn stubborn he either earned a second chance or convinced those in the Upper Planes to send him back. He rose from among the bodies of his warriors, and for once he had learned a lesson. He would continue to carry out his mission to redeem the evil, but he would do so with the gentle encouragement and firm but kind message of redemption. If they resisted his message of love and forgiveness, he’d just have to nudge extra hard.

Some have said that he was successful enough to earn himself a spot in the Upper Planes, but turned it down and managed to get himself back on the Prime Material saving souls. I don’t put much stock in that. Nobody could be that foolish.
Level 5
Yep, it’s a Care Bear. Badger Hengeyokai is the closest approximation I could make without a mess of trouble, so that’s what we’re using. Just squint your eyes and it’s basically the same, not like the Care Bears look much like real bears. Stay in Hybrid form unless you have a very good reason to be a normal badger, like wriggling through a small space. Burrow speed is on from level 1 in Hybrid form, so use it as your panic button when things get too hairy.

We don’t pick up the actual Vow of Nonviolence until later but this build assumes a consistent path of at least semi-peaceful engagement. Beguiler’s very good at doing everything other than have a brawl, so use social skills and a good Cha to your advantage. Marshal giving double Cha to all Cha skills makes this happen all the faster, and everyone could use the boost to saves. Remember, Charm Person invokes a Cha check. Marshal says that if you already have Skill Focus (Diplomacy) you can swap its bonus feat for something else, so we’re doing that to nab Words of Creation at 4 when we actually qualify for it. At this point most things are vulnerable to stuff like sleep, charm person, and color spray, so you can mess your enemies up pretty bad without hurting them. Alibi makes someone believe that they’ve interacted with you previously, which is great for starting a conversation about whatever fake thing you did yesterday. Hell, say you did them a favor and get them to do you one in return. This spell has tons of possibilities for all social interactions.

If for some reason you have to hit somebody, remember blunt arrows for your shortbow to inflict nonlethal. No need to be mean. Don’t fight up close, you’re squishy. Try to not die until you’re ready to.
Level 10
Before we enter the SI, we’re going to make a bit of a stop in Emissary of Barachiel. This provides the Care Bear with his Holy Purpose, converting evil humanoids to the side of good. We’re going to accomplish this largely through lots of Diplomacy rolls, which is why it’s always maxed, we’ve got heavy Cha investment (remember motivate Cha means every increase counts twice), we’re racking up all the synergy bonuses, and even Sacred Vow helps boost it (though that’s more of a side benefit). Emissary of Barachiel provides us with some more great spells for utility and influencing others. Its primary ability of Calling is a nice buff and debuff based on alignment, so make sure you have LG allies. The DC is based on Diplomacy check, so it’s going to be hilariously high. The real useful one is Conversion, which also uses Diplo for save, and changes the alignment of the target. It’s temporary, but if they fail all 7 saves, it becomes permanent. That’s very likely considering how high you can pump your Diplo mod. You’re going to want to get a permanent tongues on yourself as soon as you can to essentially circumvent the language-dependent nature of calling and other effects.

An effect where you focus your energies so hard at your foe that they are subdued and convert to the side of good? That’s right friends: it’s the Care Bear Stare.

The SI provides you with its first benefit immediately. Calling and Conversion are Words of Creation, so like other uses have irritation nonlethal damage. As a deathless you are immune to it so you can use it whenever you want without fear. You can also use it to cast Ray of Hope at +1CL, because it’s a good spell. It boosts your Charisma, and adds your bigger Cha to AC. Holy Purpose works for attack and damage if you must use some nonlethal weapons, or to skill checks (and ability checks!) that you’ll be using much more (diplo, charm, conversion, etc). Use bless when you run out of rays of hope or uses of calling (all are morale so won’t stack). As a deathless you now use Cha for Concentration, ask your DM if this means that motivate Cha applies it twice. If so, you can stop investing in Concentration even sooner and free up skill points.

Constant Magic Circle Against Evil is a pretty nice benefit from this class. Not for the deflection bonus to AC, since it already gave you a better one from your Cha that applies to everything and is higher (because the writers are goobers), and not because of its protection from charm and compulsion, since it already made you immune by being deathless (again, writers=goober). Ok maybe it’s not the best, but it does keep out all nongood summoned creatures and has CL of your HD because they didn’t specify otherwise, so you got good odds against their SR, and it does prevent the handful of possession effects outright, which is less to worry about.
Level 15
More levels of Risen Martyr, and be honest, most people are probably regretting it by now. But there’s always silver linings. Daylight has CL=HD again, so is great for use against darkness spells, especially since it’s at will. Acid is usually an elemental damage go-to because immunity is rare, but you get that immunity first, which is very helpful. Cold is a pretty common element to encounter, so you’re protected there. Nobody’s going to use fire, since it’s too common, so resistance is as well. Don’t tell anyone you’re not immune, it will be our secret. Detect evil will help you determine whether those you are converting really are moving on the path, and will help you find more targets to convert. Adding on a lesser globe of invulnerability effect is super helpful, because lots of people still use low levels spells with non-scaling effects. Flat immunity to those will help keep you alive, and since it’s big enough for you to cast on you’re still fine. Shield Other is best used to soak up enough damage to save somebody, especially if it’s something like acid or cold. You have a bit more health than it might seem, because as a Hengeyokai you can shift character level+1 times per day, and it’s based off of polymorph so heals you each time. As a deathless the Con change doesn’t affect you, so human and Hybrid shape differ only by burrow speed, both work fine. Every little bit helps.

Celestial Brilliance is better than it seems. Again it has a CL=HD. Note that its duration is 1 DAY per level, so that 1 use per day is actually generous. It’s the one damage thing you have, so you can use it to kill undead all you want, since that doesn’t trigger vow of peace. As for evil outsiders, you’re going to want to be careful. Be wary of and try to identify anything that looks like it might be one, since you don’t want to ding them. You can target celestial brilliance on an object, so if you put it on your walking stick or what have you, then encounter an outsider by chance and it hurts him, that’s unintentional so you can get it back with atonement. The point is you can have it on all the time, so you might as well.

Vow of Nonviolence boosts the DC of every spell and effect you have that doesn’t damage humanoids or monstrous humanoids, which is all of your spells and effects. The wording means it applies to calling and conversion as well. Risen Martyr means you’re not competent enough to really hurt anyone anyway. Vow of Peace extends this to all living creatures which is fine, it just means you be a bit selective with celestial brilliance. You can’t let your team members use violence either, but since the Care Bear converts his foes to the side of good, there’s no reason to hurt them. Also enjoy vow of peace’s natural armor bonus, but the real point is that weapons can shatter when used against you and that everyone within 20 feet has to save against calm emotions, with a scaling cha based DC. Is this a DC that vow of nonviolence boosts? Maybe. Oh hey another boost to our very high Diplomacy.
Level 20
The Care Bear is exactly that foolish. He’s going to leave the Upper Planes once he gets there.

First let’s finish the SI. Electricity Immunity is another helpful thing, meaning you can now walk right in front blasters using 3 of the 4 basic elements (the 3 that people care about). Holy Aura is added on to make the resistance bonus apply to everything and grant SR 25 against evil spells and effects, and any spells cast by evil creatures, which covers a looooot, since your mission is to go against evil creatures. The final cool kicker of Holy Aura, permanent blindness for evil creatures that strike you, still isn’t harmful, so vow of nonviolence applies here too.

Perfection does have a use for you, and that’s that you can now use wands of Archon’s Trumpet. It’s a neat debuff with great spread, and again doesn’t hurt anybody so boosted by vow of nonviolence. It’s a fun effect, and now you can actually cast it, unlike a regular Emissary of Barachiel (again, writers are goobers).

Final Ascension means you take a one way trip up to the Upper Planes. Once he’s there he’s going to want to go back. Doing so is simple enough. As an LG creature that is treated as an archon, he’s going to end up among archons. From there it’s just a matter of using his very large Diplo mod to ask a Trumpet Archon to plane shift him down, pretty please, or to hitch a ride with one that’s going to the Prime Material. Plane shift is a normal spell that the sample one’s prepared, so your DM shouldn’t have a reason to object.

Once back on the Prime Material and free of the SI, we’re going back to Emissary of Barachiel. It gives a few more spells, Haste and Charm Monster, which have oh so many uses. The real fun capstone for this build is Sustenance, which lets you notably reverse any magical alignment change (if someone’s trying to undo all the good work you did) and create and atonement effect, which means you can make your conversion permanent immediately. If you’d like to top this build off with a decorative swirl of cheese, you might be able to use this atonement effect to atone yourself if you ever accidentally mess up your Vow of Peace.

UMD is high enough to use wands without error, depending on your investment in Cha it might be available earlier, but you’ve got easy use for a fair amount of this build.

Our final feat is Lifesense, which makes all living creatures shed light to your eyes. This is like normal light to you, so hiding becomes much harder for them. This also makes it easy to pick out undead targets for zapping with celestial brilliance.
Sources
Beguiler: Players Handbook II
Marshal: Miniatures Handbook
Emissary of Barachiel, Nimbus of Light, Servant of the Heavens, Words of Creation, Sacred Vow, Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace: Book of Exalted Deeds
Lifesense: Libris Mortis
Skill Focus: srd
Alibi: Exemplars of Evil

[Heliomance]

"A nine-cheese fondue? Certainly a bold choice! I like it, but will our judges?"


Aves Maria, Celestial Fondue

Human Dread Necromancer 2 /human paragon 3 /exalted arcanist 5 /risen martyr 10


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/82/73/41/82734148f1a16fc6ce332a38384d7ab1.jpg

Versatile Spellcaster Abuse. Are you ready for this?

This character went through many transformations. At first, this build was dread necromancer 8/risen martyr 10, with the ghostly visage familiar remaining on the home plane when the necromancer ascends. Using sanctified magic, which is class neutral, the DN could find a way to plane hop, and use the ghostly visage’s share spell ability to channel the PC, using the channel celestial spell, who could then use spells and supernatural abilities to destroy the enemies. I assumed that the sanctified magic rules would work out, then I read them more closely only to find that Spontaneous casters don’t get sanctified spells added to spells Known…unless they are a 5th level exalted arcanist.

Taking 5 exalted archaist levels required dropping the class-provided familiar, but that could be replaced by obtain familiar and a talking bird. But the earliest entry for exalted arcanist is level 6, and I needed the fifth level ability of exalted arcanist (all sanctified spells added to your spells known) and Risen Martyr’s capstone in order to be channelled by a symbiote or a familiar. So, to get the extra feat for exalted arcanist pre-reqs, I had to trade a caster level to get human paragon’s bonus feat. Then I noticed the 9 skill ranks required for exalted arcanist entry. Jeesh.

It looked bleak, but then I remembered cityscape’s primary contact feat allowing you to go one more rank up in a single skill. I ate up every feat slot with pre-reqs, had to use flaws (boo!), lost 2 caster levels and thus lost the better spells (planar binding). But I could, theoretically, become a celestial, and, if i had the correct spell slots left over, I could cast channel greater celestial, infect my familiar with myself, and continue to adventure. 

If I had more bonus feats, I’d add a bloodline feat that had a high level summon monster, a reserve feat, celestial summoning specialist, and a divine feat to blow them dread necromancer rebukes on. I ran out of feats, but then again, it seems that I always do… Anyways, the holy Swiss cheese skeleton of the build was now in place, time to flesh it out with cheesy cheesy cheesy.

Cheese 2: Versatile spell caster: Then I researched versatile spell caster + heighten more deeply. Things got real tricky, real fast. A dread necromancer knows all his spells when he gains the ability to cast spells of a new spell level. With versatile spell caster you can use two spell slots to cast a spell one level higher that you “know.” Rulings vary, but in very strict RAW, the window where you know the next level spell only lasts as long as you are casting the versatile spellcastered spell slots. So, what you CAN do, with a metamagic quicken rod, is use versatile spell caster with two of your highest level spell slots to cast the next level higher spell, then interrupt that casting with your quickened spell of the level that you want. For example: at tenth level in this build, I can use two 4th level slots to cast a heightened 1st level spell that has a full round casting time. This gives me access to a 5th level spell. Now that I have access to fifth level spells, I know all of my known 5th level spells, including the sanctified ones. I interrupt that versatile spell with a quickened 5th spell that just became a known spell.

“Sure chef,” you’ll say, “but a metamagic rod of quicken doesn’t work on spontaneous spells.” Which is correct. You’re going to need a metamagic rod of sudden quicken. Hopefully it costs about the same, seeing as how it’s based on a +4 metamagic and is only usable 1/day. Either that or you need a really long casting time for one spell that you interrupt to cast the new spell. A 10 minute casting time spell like heightened speak with the dead or animate with the spirit…perhaps?

The loss of caster levels cuts this build down to a maximum of 4th level spells known, with versatile spellcaster peaking at 5th level spells. But we need 9th level spells to make this work. Thats where ability score bonus spells come in.



“Like other spellcasters, a dread necromancer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given in Table 5—2: The Dread Necromancer. In addition, she receives bonus spells for a high Charisma score (see Table 1—1 on page 8 of the Player's Handbook).”

When you look up that table at level ten, your charisma is 22, which gives you a fifth level spell slot. All you need is a 28 charisma and when you get two of your 5th level spells slots and your entire class list of spells known, and then you can use versatile spell caster to dump those two 5th level slots to get sixth level spells. So if you use node store to get a fifth level spell slot, you automatically get your bonus spells from your ability score, and can thus burn them using versatile spell caster to get a and a sixth level spell, and thus it becomes a valid choice. I’m sure there is a way to use the heighten spell feat in there to further reach up in spell level…

Cheese 3: Node store: Now that you have access to your sixth level spells, you can use your node to store them. Store two planar binding spells in your earth node (I did briefly consider using evil nodes, which are more useful, but risen martyr apparently has a code of conduct). Node store literally gives you more spell slots. Two of them.


Each time you take this feat, choose two spells of any level that you know and can cast. If you are a spellcaster who prepares spells, you can now prepare those two spells in addition to your normal spell complement as long as you are in a node to which you are attuned, just as if you had two extra spell slots per day. These extra prepared spells are stored in the node instead of in your mind. You can cast them normally while you are within that node, even if you have left the node and returned since storing them there. If you are a spellcaster who does not prepare spells, choose two spells that you know. You can now cast those two spells while in a node to which you are attuned as if you had two extra spell slots per day available. Each such slot can be used only to cast its designated spell; it cannot be used for any other spell (including the other spell designated with this feat). If you leave the node, these extra spell slots become unavailable to you, but you can use them again if you return, provided that you haven't already used them since the last time you rested. You do not need to designate a specific node in which to store your spells when you choose this feat, but you can have spells stored in only one node at a time. You can change the node in which your spells are stored by meditating for 1 hour inside the new node you have selected. 
Special You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to two new spells.

Did you see that? Now you can versatile spell cast your two planar binding spells from your 6th level spell slots in your node to cast a 7th level spell! Because you chose two spells of any level that you know, and CAN CAST. Further, while in your node, you may have access to your bonus spells from having a high ability score. And you can use this same theory one more time at level 15 to get two 8th level spells: Have a charisma of 32, interrupt your 7th level spell to versatilely quicken an 8th level spell before your 7th level spell is finished using spell slots gained from a high ability score (18+2 paragon +3 level ups +4 risen martyr + a +5 charisma item), that appear because you can cast and have access to 8th level spells. 

Now that you can do this, you can choose two 8th level spells for your second bout of node storage when it becomes feat selection time. And with these two 8th level spell slots, you can versatile spell cast 9ths…And thus sanctify the wicked as many times as you need in order to avoid ascension too early.

Now, rules gotta be interpreted here. And whatever elegance was lost from doing flaws for early entry on exalted arcanist is now getting doubled. The SRD for ability scores says

“
In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level.”

Which, is really nebulous in the case of a versatile spell casting dread necromancer. The interpretation used here is that while you are casting a spell one level higher than your class typically allows by using two smaller spell slots, you “are of high enough class level to cast a spell of that level”…at least during the casting. The reason one can be confident that this works is because this build is abiding the stipulation that you are casting a spell one level higher using lower level slots, not insisting that slots are spontaneously generated through versatile spell caster alone. This means that you have the bonus spell slots until you are done casting the spell, so nothing really stops you from employing this, except maybe a common sense real-life DM. Pfft. Like they exist.

Maybe you’re not allowed to use those ability score bonus spell slots during the little window of casting another spell…Well, you have one more option on pages 135 and 136 of complete mage. Spell components that give you a free heighten. Dragons tears are a prime example. Versatile spell cast two 4th level slots to cast a 5th level mind affecting spell, then use dragon tears to use that 5th level spell to cast what is treated as a 6th level spell. You now can cast any spell of 6th level, and thus can activate the ability to use node store to store 6th level spells.

So that is the first few cheeses for the fondue. The rest of the cheese follows.

Cheese 4 and 5: Alignment: Let’s talk about the elephant in the room: Evil. Aves Maria is a dread necromancer. Her best spells have the evil tag. At best, Aves Maria has a neutral alignment…when she begins. During her human paragon levels, she has a lifting of the heart and becomes neutral good. She also has not one but two metamagic feats that add the good descriptor to a spell. A consecrated purified create undead is a necromantic [evil][good][good] spell. Surely the second round of goodness helps, particularly on a PC that isn’t a cleric, the only class for which Evil spells have a mechanical effect. (Hence the malconvoker, being a class that can be entered through divine or arcane magic having a special ability to avoid problematic evil spells). Ask your DM. It doesn’t actually matter, you should be able to do this without casting your evil spells, it will be a bit more difficult, but all you have to do is survive until 10th level. Avoid summon undead, animate dead, & contagion. Those spells are only completely useful, but you’re exalted; personal utility and ability to triumph comes second to arbitrary definitions of evil. FYI: A purified bestow wounds cast on a good aligned person heals you but doesn’t harm them…

You channel negative energy, but you aren’t a cleric, So rebuking/controlling undead shouldn’t be an alignment hit for you either… If the channeling negative energy = evil thing only applies to clerics specifically. If channelling negative energy is an evil act, regardless of class, just ignore this class feature until you get an item that you can use to dump rebuke slots into. Isn’t being exalted all about having powers that you choose not to use because they are too easy? Anyways, maybe your backstory consists of your conscription by celestial agents of good to infiltrate a coven of necromancers to develop contacts and counter measures for the forces of good? What if that helped explain your flaws based feats and extra rank in knowledge arcana as a mentor to young necromancers that you try to nudge away from power mongering evil? Backstory can make everything be allowed, right? Regardless, it’s worth the argument.

Cheese 6: Channeling: This build is predicated on channeling celestials. Channeling celestials is covered in a few sources; BOED p.23 and updated in Eberron Campaign setting p.102. Basically it is the consent-friendly form of demonic possession. A celestial jumps into your body like a ghost, boosts your mental stats up their score -5 unless your score is higher, and grants you access to all of its Su, Psi, spell like abilities, and their skill ranks. There is apparently only a single celestial that can do this ability natively, (the throne archon) but there are 3 spells that snag a celestial possession: Animate with the spirit from Champions of Valor, Channel celestial and channel greater celestial from BOED. Animate with the spirit summons a celestial at random of up to 6HD to occupy a “corpse.” You can also request a specific celestial, which will be helpful if you only had a way to know more about celestials. Ask your DM if undead count as “corpses” because commanding the bad guys’ mindless undead and filling them up with hollyphants and movanic devas and then sending them back to their masters seems like a decent battle plan. You automatically get animate with the spirit at 10th level when you get all of the sanctified spells added to your spells known.

Cheese 7, 8, & 9: Channeling symbionts: The next level of channeling cheese involves symbionts. Symbionts are creatures that attach to you, slowly drain ability scores at about your natural rate of healing, but offer you something in return. The symbionts that service you best are found in Magic of Eberron and the fiend folio. Fiend folio doesn’t have prices for symbionts as treasure, but MoE does on page 154. You can command the 1HD ghostly visages with a rebuke undead check (fiend folio p.222) and thus don’t have to really worry about the ego score. And there is no apparent limit to the number of ghostly visages you can have. You need to redeem these bad boys in order to use them to optimal effect. Redeeming is a process detailed on BOED p.28. Basically 1/day, you spend an hour, make a diplomacy check, the bad guy makes a will save against that diplomacy check, and if they fail 7 in a row they move closer to good. You don’t have to worry about imprisonment, because they are symbiotically attached to you.

I like ghostly visages because they can become a source of celestially channelled gaze attacks and they are undead, so you can use your dread necromancer class features on them. Plus they have a mouth, so they can use it for channelled perform ranks and bardic music abilities once you begin channelling celestials. It doesn’t matter, but you can channel more celestials into your person if you have more symbionts attached to yourself, and although there isn’t a set limit to the number of celestials can be channeled by one person, RAW, I think we can safely assume that 1 is the number of celestials that most DMs will allow a single entity to channel. Mostly due to the share spells ability of symbionts, you can channel celestials into them, and then the symbiont gets a much sweeter array of skills, spells and spell like abilities to use on your turn to destroy your opponent. And due to share spells, the buffs hat the celestial brings to the table will benefit you.


Share Spells (Su): Any spell the host creature casts on itself automatically also affects the symbiont. Additionally, the host may cast a spell with a target of “You” on the sym- biont instead of on itself. Likewise, a symbiont can choose to have any spell or spell-like ability it uses on itself also affect the host creature, and may cast a spell with a target of “You” on its host instead of on itself. The host and symbiont can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the host or symbiont’s type. Spells targeted on the host by another spellcaster do not affect the symbiont, and vice versa.

With the channel celestial spell, you can turn yourself into a walking tank of sentient celestial armor, rapping off tons of at will abilities. All you have to do is successfully redeem your symbionts to a good alignment. Seriously consider getting a mind leach, a tentacle whip, a ghostly visage, as many breed leaches as you can handle cuz your fort save is trash, a shadow sibling and a spellwurm(s). Turn these things into good guys so that they play nice with your celestials, while also breaking the action economy…

The SpellWurm symbiont is a great choice in that it adds mage armor, blur and ancestral knowledge as spells to your spells known. Ancestral knowledge is a nice boost for when you channel word archons to use their knowledge skills to access true names for celestials to request when channeling & animating with the spirit. Another great option is the fiendish familiar, (FF p.219) which can serve as a source of new spell knowledge (DMG p.198) Especially with the wonky spell exchange rules for exalted arcanist.


“She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bardic music abilities, improved familiar abilities, and so on), though she does retain the ability to exchange spells known with every even-numbered equivalent sorcerer or bard level.”
Obviously, this ability was invented when the only spontaneous casters were sorcerers and bards, and the verbiage specifically knocks out the Dread Necromancers’ advanced learning ability to augment the spell list. I’d rather not be able to exchange spells or add spells than try to figure out how to parse that weird language to figure out if you can swap out spells as a sorcerer or bard at exalted arcanist level 2 and 4. Regardless, as a dread necro and as a spontaneous caster, it is expected by game designers for you to augment your spell list somehow at spell casting levels that are divisible by 2. It would not be unreasonable for an exalted dread necromancer to somehow receive access to a spell like a sorcerer. A redeemed fiendish familiar can provide this. And seeing as how you are incapable of receiving some of the node spells, this may provide the opportunity to get access to at least the locate node spell.

The thing is, you can also channel a celestial into your familiar through your share spells ability. So your familiar has access to all of yall’s skill ranks. Further, once you ascend and become a celestial yourself with risen martyr’s sweet capstone, you can cast channel greater celestial (if you’re within your node) to possess your parrot familiar. While you are in heaven, channel a celestial with planeshift, teleport yourself to your familiar, and go on adventures from there! In this case, infect your parrot with your old symbiotic companions and really be the most intimidating form of avian life ever to grace the planet.

You have access to planar binding, which gives you access to every celestial, which in turn gives you access to a word archon. Channel a word archon to make truespeak checks, and to use those knowledge skills for research of true names to request specific celestials during your animate with the spirit shenanigans. Further, you can give people the celestial template, which, depending on the DM’s ruling, may allow you to channel your friends! Channel a Shirokinu-katsukami (OA p. 191) to haunt the dreams of everyone in the world. Use your words of creation feat when you channel a celestial with bardic music abilities to grant morale bonuses to the animated with the spirit zombies! Ghaele Eladrin gives you access to 14th level cleric casting, (and thus spontaneous sanctified spells, which you can versatile spell caster all you want).

I used the following resources:
Channeling celestials guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?486977-What-exactly-makes-a-creature-a-celestial/page2)

Symbionts HO!!! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?190350-Fleshwarping-A-List-of-Grafts-Symbionts-and-Related-Goodies)

Gear: symbionts as gear is found on page 154 of Magic of eberron. A metamagic rod of sudden quicken is vital for slot cheese. A +6 charisma or greater item is also vital. For even more synergy, consider getting the regalia of righteous war magic item set from complete champion p.136 to pump your rebuke attempts into, especially if your DM decides that negative energy channeling is de facto evil behavior. Memento magica’s (MIC164) recalls spent spell slots to your character. Aquamarine of spell extending (PGTF p.123) gives you a 1/day extend spell. Domain Draught (MIC p.156) attached to the deathless domain can allow you to use those rebuke attempts to command deathless. Component replacements from complete mage p. 135 and 136 are awesome: primal essence can cover your sacrifice cost from sanctified spells, and dragon’s tears are an example of a material component that you can use to store node spells. The A&EG allows you build custom items that offer the benefit of a feat for 5-10,000gp, so consider getting a divine or devotion feat put into your gear to use those rebukes, or perhaps a reserve feat that allows you to summon an elemental based on your summon undead spells.

5th level: At level one you are neutral and can use summon undead. You are a double agent for celestials working with an arcane organization of necromancers and you have developed contacts within that network. This is good because you need a +1 skill rank that can supersede your class level skill ranks. It is also good because you need access to magic users that can direct you towards very specific gear and symbionts. When you depart into human paragon, apply adaptive learning to UMD, and take some true name skill ranks. During your human paragon levels, convert to neutral good alignment in order to qualify for exalted metamagics.

10th level: Levels 6-9 are the most difficult levels for your character’s survival. Your spells are way behind and you may not be able to rebuke undead without being de-exalted by the powers at be. But once you reach level 10, you receive knowledge of all of the sanctified spells in all of the books. This is the level where you die and become a risen martyr next level.

15th level: With node store cheese, you have access to far more spells. All of risen martyr’s abilities are kinda crap, so you are relying on your knowledge of the sanctified spells.

20th level: The sweet spot! You can channel and be channeled by your talking parrot familiar. You can set up a celestial daisy chain!


Sources:
HOH = Heroes of Horror
BOED = Book of Exalted Deeds
SW = Stormwrack
CoR = Champions of Ruin
CArc = Complete Arcane
CoV = Champions of Valor
CM =Complete Mage
FF = Fiend Folio
A&EG = Arms and equipment Guide




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Dread Necromancer 1 (HoH p.84)
+0
+0
+0
+2
Spellcraft 4, knowledge arcana 4 +1, Knowledge religion 4, Disguise 4, Bluff 1, decipher script 3
1: Versatile Spell caster (RotD p.101)
Human: Heighten Spell (SRD)
Flaw:Favored (CS p.61)
Flaw: Primary Contact (CS p. 61)
Charnel Touch (Su), Rebuke Undead (Su)


2nd
Dread Necromancer 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
spellcraft 5, knowledge arcana 5 +1, Bluff 2, concentration 2

Lich Body


3rd
Human Paragon 1 (UA)
+1
+x0
+0
+5
Knowledge arcana 6+1, umd 4, truespeak 2
Purify Spell (BOED p.44)
Adaptive Learning: UMD


4th
Human Paragon 2
+2
+0
+0
+6
Knowledge arcana 7+1, UMD 7, truespeak 5
Consecrate Spell (BOED p.42)
Bonus Feat


5th
Human Paragon 3
+3
+1
+1
+6
Knowledge arcana 8+1, UMD 8, truspeak 8, Bluff 4,

Ability Boost: Cha +2


6th
Exalted Arcanist 1 (BOED)
+3
+1
+1
+8
Diplomacy 3, UMD 9, spellcraft 8
Node Spellcasting (CoR p.25)
Exalted Spell list, Spell knowledge


7th
Exalted Arcanist 2
+4
+1
+1
+9
spellcraft 10, UMD 10, concentration 4, Diplomacy 5

Faster Consecrate


8th
Exalted Arcanist 3
+5
+2
+2
+9
spellcraft 11, UMD 11, Diplomacy 7, concentration 7
Nimbus of stupid light (BOED p.44)
Bonus Exalted Feat


9th
Exalted Arcanist 4
+6
+2
+2
+10
spellcraft 12, UMD 12, Concentration 10, diplomacy 9
Obtain Familiar: Parrot (CArc p.81) & (SW p.52)
Faster Purify


10th
Exalted Arcanist 5
+6
+2
+2
+10
Speak Language (celestial), UMD 13, spellcraft 13, diplomacy 13
Words of Creation (BOED p.48)
Add all sancified spells to spells known, bonus exalted feat


10th
Risen Martyr 0 (BOED)
+6
+2
+2
+12
x

Spiritual body


11th
Risen Martyr 1
+6
+2
+2
+12
UMD 14, gather information 1, spellcraft 14, diplomacy 14

Cha+2, Deflection bonus to AC, Holy purpose


12th
Risen Martyr 2
+7
+2
+2
+13
UMD 15, gather information 2, spellcraft 15, diplomacy 15
Node Store (CoR p.26) Planar binding (SRD) & channel celestial (BOED p.94)
bless: 3/day, magic circle against evil 3/day


13th
Risen Martyr 3
+7
+3
+3
+13
UMD 16, gather information 3, spellcraft 16, diplomacy 16

daylight at will free action


14th
Risen Martyr 4
+8
+3
+3
+14
UMD 17, gather information 4, spellcraft 17, knowledge planes 1

acid immunity, detect evil at will


15th
Risen Martyr 5
+8
+3
+3
+14
UMD 18, gather information 5, Bluff 5.5
Node Store: Heightened channel celestial (8)& Symbol of death (8)
protective aura spell


16th
Risen Martyr 6
+9
+4
+4
+15
UMD 19, gather information 6, Bluff 7

shield other 3/day


17th
Risen Martyr 7
+9
+4
+4
+15
UMD 20, gather information 7, Bluff 8, knowledge planes 2

celestial brightness 1/day, cold immunity


18th
Risen Martyr 8
+10
+4
+4
+16
UMD 21, gather information 8, Bluff 9, knowledge planes 3
Practiced Spellcaster (CoD p.82)
holy aura


19th
Risen Martyr 9
+10
+5
+5
+16
decipher script 5, gather information 9

immune to electricity


20th
Risen Martyr 10
+11
+5
+5
+17
decipher script 7, gather information 10

Perfection




Suggested flaws: weak will and shaky.

Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
5
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
6
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
6
3
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
6
6
4
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-


11th
6
6
5
3
-
-
-
-
-


12th
6
6
5
3
*1

*1
-
-
-


13th
6
6
5
3
*1
*1
-
-
-


14th
6
6
5
3
*1
*1
-
-
-


15th-20th
6
6
5
3
*1
*1
*1
*1
-



* - Node store spell slots

Spell list:
Dread necro list up until level 10. Then add all of the sanctified spells to spells known.

[Heliomance]

"A tribute build! It's been a few rounds since we've seen one of those."
"It has indeed. They've not been popular lately, but this chef might just bring them back!"


D

http://41.media.tumblr.com/ead7aa6cba0ab418b4e8f6757a2b156f/tumblr_nr55qujWj51qh1shko1_500.jpg

Race: Half-Vampire Human
Build Stub: Ranger 1/Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Hellreaver 1/Soldier of Light 1/Risen Martyr 10
Multiclass Penalty: No.
Languages: Common, Infernal
Alignment: NG
Ability Scores:


Ability
Score
Template
Points
4th
8th
9th
12th
13th
16th


Strength
16
+2
6








Dexterity
16
+2
6








Constitution
10

2


--
--
--
--


Intelligence
12

4








Wisdom
12

4








Charisma
18
+2
10
19
20
22
23
25
26




It is the year 12,090 A.D. The world has all but ended, ravaged in a firestorm of man's wars and madness. But from the wreckage a few humans manage to survive. A few humans... and something else.

A lone rider enters the village square on a clockwork horse and stops. A whisper of wind tickles at the rider's cape and then dies. The entire village appears deserted, but the rider knows the villagers are just hiding behind bolted doors and locked shutters. He can smell their fear, smell it in their blood.

There is movement in the shadows, then a sudden glimpse of glowing red eyes. Three vampire spawn skulk out of the shadows, baring their ivory fangs and claws.

"What have we here?" says one of them with skin like yellowed parchment and bristly black hair split with a white skunk stripe. "A new plaything?" The companion on his left has demon-red skin and tufts of white fur, and the one on his right is green-skinned, bald and bloated with bulging frog-like eyes.

The rider sits motionless.

"That looks like a pretty fancy sword you got there," says the skunk-striped spawn. "Hand it over and maybe I'll let you leave here with most of your skin in one piece."

There is no response.

"Hey, are you stupid or something? I said hand over that sword! Or how about I just take it, and I peel your skin off with it?"

A few more seconds stretch by without a response, but the skunk-striped spawn has reached his limit. "Very well, you thick-headed louse. Just remember, you brought this on yourself!" Skunk-stripe motions to his companions. The green-skinned spawn sucks in his gut, bulges his cheeks, and then spits a glob of greenish slime at the rider. Skunk-stripe and his red-skinned companion leap at the rider, fangs and claws extended.

The rider shifts in his saddle, trying to duck under the glob of slime, but it spatters over his cloak, hissing and smoking. The skunk-striped and red-skinned spawn slash at the rider with thier claws, and one of them manages to catch an arm, dragging the rider off the clockwork horse. As the rider falls, the two spawn gleefully close in, trying to sink their fangs into any exposed flesh.

In one smooth motion, D twists to get both feet under him and draws the sword off his back. As the blade clears the scabbard, it flashes with a brilliant golden light. D brings the sword down in a high arc, catching the skunk-striped spawn at the shoulder and cleaving straight down through to the opposite hip. Bathed in the intense light of the sword, the skin and blood of the spawn start to sizzle and smoke. The red-skinned spawn, sprayed by hissing black blood of his companion, gibbers and attempts to flee, but D's leg snaps out and sweeps his legs out from under him. The spawn's gibbers turn into burbling screams as the sunlight from the burning blade turns his boiling skin into a pile of smoking ash.

The frog-eyed spawn stares frozen in horror as dribbles of green slime drip from his bulbous chin, standing just outside the glowing circle of burning sunlight. D steps over what's left of the other two spawn and sets his sword in front of him, point-down as if holding a cross. He addresses the remaining spawn in a clear, resonant voice, "Go and tell your master that he has until the next sunrise to get his affairs in order and leave this domain. If Count Udolpho does not remove himself from the castle, then I will come and remove him from this earth. Go!"

The frog eyes blink once, twice, then the spawn turns and runs out of the square.





Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Ranger 1
+1
+2
+2
+0
Disable Device 4, Hide 4, Jump 4, Know:Planes 2(cc), Know:Religion 2(cc), Move Silently 4, Ride 4, Search 4
Nimbus of Light, Nemesis, Improved Initiative
Favored Enemy: Undead, Trap Expert ACF, Spiritual Connection ACF, Half-Vampire traits


2nd
Rogue 1
+1
+2
+4
+0
Balance 3(+3), Disable Device 5(+1), Hide 5(+1), Jump 4, Know:Planes 2, Know:Religion 2, Move Silently 5(+1), Ride 4, Search 5(+1), Tumble 3(+3)

Sneak Attack 1d6, Mimic ACF


3rd
Rogue 2
+2
+2
+5
+0
Balance 5(+2), Disable Device 6(+1), Hide 6(+1), Jump 4, Know:Planes 3(+2cc), Know:Religion 2, Move Silently 6(+1), Ride 4, Search 6(+1), Tumble 5(+2)
Sun Devotion
Spell Reflection ACF


4th
Rogue 3
+3
+3
+5
+1
Balance 5, Disable Device 7(+1), Hide 7(+1), Jump 4, Know:Planes 3, Know:Religion 2, Move Silently 7(+1), Ride 4, Search 7(+1), Sense Motive 2(+2), Spot 2(+2), Tumble 7(+2)

Sneak Attack 2d6, Death's Ruin ACF


5th
Fighter 1
+4
+5
+5
+1
Balance 5, Disable Device 7, Hide 7, Jump 5(+1), Know:Planes 4(+2cc), Know:Religion 2, Move Silently 7, Ride 5(+1), Search 7, Sense Motive 2, Spot 2, Tumble 7
Power Attack



6th
Fighter 2
+5
+6
+5
+1
Balance 5, Disable Device 8(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 2, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 8(+2cc), Sense Motive 2, Spot 2, Tumble 7
Improved Bull Rush, Favored Power Attack



7th
Hellreaver 1
+6
+6
+5
+3
Balance 5, Disable Device 8, Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4(+2), Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 8, Sense Motive 2, Spot 4(+2), Tumble 7




8th
Soldier of Light 1
+7
+8
+5
+3
Balance 5, Disable Device 8, Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 8, Sense Motive 4(+2), Spellcraft 2(+2), Spot 4, Tumble 7

Detect Undead, Turn Undead


9th
Risen Martyr 1
+7
+8
+5
+5
Balance 5, Disable Device 9(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 9(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7
Sacred Vitality
Spiritual Body, Charisma +2, Deflection, Holy Purpose +1


10th
Risen Martyr 2
+8
+8
+5
+6
Balance 5, Disable Device 10(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 10(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7

Bless, Magic Circle Against Evil


11th
Risen Martyr 3
+8
+9
+6
+6
Balance 5, Disable Device 11(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 11(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7

Daylight, Holy Purpose +2


12th
Risen Martyr 4
+9
+9
+6
+7
Balance 5, Disable Device 12(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 12(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7
Shock Trooper
Acid Immunity, Detect Evil


13th
Risen Martyr 5
+9
+9
+6
+7
Balance 5, Disable Device 13(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 13(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7

Charisma +4, Protective Aura


14th
Risen Martyr 6
+10
+10
+7
+8
Balance 5, Disable Device 14(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 14(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7

Shield Other, Holy Purpose +3


15th
Risen Martyr 7
+10
+10
+7
+8
Balance 5, Disable Device 15(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 15(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7
Divine Might
Celestal Brilliance, Cold Immunity


16th
Risen Martyr 8
+11
+10
+7
+9
Balance 5, Disable Device 16(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 16(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7

Holy Aura


17th
Risen Martyr 9
+11
+11
+8
+9
Balance 5, Disable Device 17(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 17(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7

Electricity Immunity, Holy Purpose +4


18th
Risen Martyr 10
+12
+11
+8
+10
Balance 5, Disable Device 18(+2cc), Hide 7, Jump 5, Know:Planes 4, Know:Religion 4, Move Silently 7, Ride 5, Search 18(+2cc), Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 2, Spot 4, Tumble 7
Improved Favored Enemy
Perfection, Final Ascension


19th
Level Adjustment +1









20th
Level Adjustment +2












Soldier of Light Spells per Day


Level
1st
2nd
3rd
4th


8th
1
-
-
-



Typical Soldier of Light Spell Prepared
1st: bless weapon or hide from undead



Risen Martyr is a very unusual prestige class. Like many previous secret ingredients, most of its class features are weak, passive, and uninspiring. However, no other prestige class offers its most unique feature before you've even taken any levels in the class: the Deathless type. Deathless presents some interesting problems, providing almost all of the immunities and defensive qualities of the Undead type along with some of the drawbacks. However, the most vexing problem with this type is although it is very similar to being Undead, it's distincly a type all its own, and does not work well with any abilities or effects that were designed to work with the Undead type. One of the defenstive qualities shared by both the Deathless and Undead type is a blanket immunity to any effect that relies on a Fortitude save. So I went book-diving for something involving Fortitude saves that would be nice to ignore.

Half-Vampire is an inherited template from Libris Mortis that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid. It offers the choice of three different special attacks, and if you choose the Blood Drain (Ex) ability, you also gain the Blood Dependency (Ex) special quality. With Blood Dependency, the half-vampire must make a DC 15 Fortitude save every day or become fatigued. Each day after that, if the half-vampire doesn't use his Blood Drain ability, the DC increases by +1. Once fatigued, the half-vampire must make a DC 20 Fortitude save every week or become exhausted. Becoming Deathless not only provides the half-vampire with permanent immunity to fatigue/exhaustion, he can ingore the effects of Blood Dependency entirely. He can still use Blood Drain if he wants to, but D hardly ever gives in to his more bestial urges, using it mostly as a last resort in only the most dire situations.

Half-Vampire also gives him the following:
1d6 Slam attack (considered magical for DR purposes)
Damage Reduction 5/silver or magic
Fast Healing 1
Resistance to cold 5
Resistance to electricity 5
Str +2, Dex +2, Cha +2
+2 racial bonus to Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks
Improved Initiative feat
Vampire (http://www.vampire-d.com/home.php) Hunter (https://www.amazon.com/Vampire-Hunter-D-Hideyuki-Kikuchi-ebook/dp/B00A7H2GQM) D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rdyp2GkVWs) starts out as a Ranger with the obligatory Favored Enemy: Undead. D has a complicated relationship with his sire, who he sees as both a predatory abomination and an icon of honor and nobility. His sire, likewise, sees D as his greatest success (after a long series of failed half-breed "experiments"), but also a dissapointment that turned his back on him to hunt down his other creations. While Ranger is the natural choice for most "Must Kill X" concepts, there's not much else in Ranger that D really needs. Since most of the animals D is likely to encounter are going to be under the thrall of a vampire lord, he doesn't have much need for Wild Empathy, and so we'll swap that for the Spiritual Connection ACF (Complete Champion), which allows him to talk directly with animals/plants. After Ranger, D takes a few levels of Rogue, and we swap around some more ACFs. D has no need for Track, so we swap it for the Trap Expert ACF (Dungeonscape), and rather than duplicate Trapfinding with Rogue, we grab the Mimic ACF (Exemplars of Evil) for disguise self 1/day. This allows D to slip quietly into or out of the small villages and hamlets in the world dominated by the vampire lords without attracting too much attention. We also trade Evasion for the Spell Reflection ACF (Complete Mage), as a lot of the nastier vampire lords and their demonic minions tend to have SLAs or spellcaster levels.

D's last ACF is Death's Ruin from Complete Champion. While this is a more limited version of the more popular Penetrating Strike ACF (Dungeonscape or Expedition to Castle Ravenloft), it has several key differences that make it better for hunting vampires: most notably, it still works under all conditions where sneak attack would normally apply, including flat-footed or any other condition where the target's Dex bonus is denied. Penetrating Strike only works when the target is flanked, and since D prefers to work as a "loner" when hunting down vampires, it made more sense that he would rely on tactics that deny Dex bonus rather than flanking (invisibility, balancing, blinding, grappling, etc.). Death's Ruin also only halves the sneak attack dice, so presumably any additional sneak attack modifiers on top of that would not be halved. You may think this would make Craven more attractive, but the Deathless type makes D immune to all mind-effects, including morale and fear effects, so he doesn't qualify for Craven. However, if your DM rules that immunity to fear is not explicitly granted by the Deathless type, you may consider swapping the Sun Devotion for Craven. Instead of Craven, I settled on the Sun Devotion as particularly nasty against vampires: +1 damage per character level against undead, and true sunlight in a 10' radius that staggers a vampire on the first round and completely destroys it on the second.

At these lower levels, D is likely not hunting down vampire lords, but dealing with their animal minions, undead creations, demonic lackeys, and vampire spawn used to control and terrorize the local villagers. For his first 8 levels, he still has to deal with his Blood Dependency, so he restricts his feeding to animals, evil creatures, and the occasional (presumably) willing maiden. When he can afford it, potions of lesser restoration, allies with ray of resurgence (Lost Empires of Faerun), or icewild lichen paste (50 GP, Secrets of Sarlona) can be used to get rid of fatigue.



As he progresses through his vampire-hunting career, D takes two levels of Fighter to pick up Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush, laying the groundwork to leveraging up his Favored Enemy damage. Favored Power Attack gives him a three-to-one damage payout when attacking with a two-handed weapon (generally a silver two-handed sword). There's another ACF you could add here, Hit-and-Run Fighter from Drow of the Underdark, which adds Dex damage to flat-footed oppoents and pairs up nicely with sneak attack, but I left it out because it felt a little bit like overkill.

After disposing of a demonic minion of some sort, D qualifies for a level of Hellreaver. While this isn't explicitly a vampire-hunting PrC, Holy Fury and Furious Strike work just as well against evil undead as they do against evil hellbeasts. If this doesn't quite match the flavor of "Vampire Hunter" for you, any 1-level dip in a PrC with a good Will save can be substituted instead, or take a third level of Fighter (*shudder*) for the Will +1, and this will satisfy the requirements for Risen Martyr. Our final non-Deathless level is Soldier of Light. While D doesn't appear particularly pious in the source material, the Sunlight-theme works very well against vampires and Turn Undead helps fuel a few of our anti-vampire abilities, notably the Sun Devotion, Sacred Vitality, and later Divine Might.



Dirtnap Detour: D somehow managed to get himself killed, but Elishar decides to bring him back to fullfill his "purpose": kill all those bloodsucking vampires. Since the purpose has to be finite, this can be tailored to the specific campaign: kill one specific vampire (Count Strahd, for example), wipe out a particular "noble family" and all their descendants, a specific number (100 vampires, let's say), or for particularly wide-open campaigns maybe even "every single vampire currently walking the earth". Whether half-vampires count, and thus he must include killing himself as part of his purpose, is left unresolved as an ideal source of self-loathing and angst for D to agonize over. Based on his appeal to Lamika Lee in the first movie, D would likely not include vampires and half-vampires who are willing to leave peacefully among humans as part of his purpose.

Once D has the Deathless type, he no longer needs to worry about Blood Dependency (although he can continue agonize about willing maidens who offer themselves up out of gratitude and so forth). He also is now immune to two of the vampire's special attacks: Blood Drain (Ex) and Dominate (Su). However, there is a large gaping hole in the Deathless defenses: Energy Drain, and we're going to fix that ASAP by taking the Sacred Vitality feat at 9th level. There's some overlap here with the Deathless type, as D is already immune to ability drain and ability damage to his physical ability scores, but Sacred Vitality covers energy drain and any unusual attacks that can drain mental ability scores. He has to spend a standard action to get it started, but he can use that first round to make the obligatory pose with some Dramatic Wind (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DramaticWind) billowing up his Badass Cape (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassCape). (Warning: links to TVTropes.)

Going into Risen Martyr was mostly about getting the Deathless type, but here's an interesting bonus: many of Risen Martyr's class abilities are actually useful for killing vampires! We get a little of the short end of the stick on BAB (something of a bitter pill on a Power Attack build) and skill points (what on earth are Risen Martyr class levels supposed to be good at?), but the Charisma bonus to AC is pretty tasty, and we get a Charisma boost to go with it. This also increases D's Turn Undead attempts and Fury Points, so he can use Sacred Vitality, Sun Devotion, and Furious Strikes more times per day. Holy Purpose gives him a bonus on attacks, damage, ability checks, and skill checks whenever he's hunting down vampires. Depending on how broadly you define this purpose, this could be used even when D is dealing with a vampire's minions/lackeys. Bless and magic circle against evil help D protect his allies, the latter in particular keeping them safe from Domination (Su) attempts and from any Children of the Night (Su) or other creatures the vampire manages to summon.



This is the level where D picks up Shock Trooper, so he can take full advantage of Favored Enemy Power Attack without horking up his attack rolls too much. His +6 Charisma bonus from Deflection helps offset the penalty to AC. Bonus damage is probably going to look something like:

+27 from Favored Power Attack
+12 from Sun Devotion
+2 from Favored Enemy
+2 from Holy Purpose
+1d6 from Nemesis
+1d6 from Furious Strike (swift action)
+1d6 from Death's Ruin (if target is denied Dex bonus)

That should be about 53.5 damage on average per attack. Fortunately, vampires have to lug around all that LA and aren't known for being huge piles of HP. Also, with Sun Devotion active, they are staggered if they're within 10' of D, and have to spend their next action to get outside that 10' or they get utterly destroyed.



The rest of D's levels are mostly adding more damage: Divine Might adds D's Charisma bonus to damage as a free action (+7), and Improved Favored Enemy adds a little more (+3). Holy Purpose goes up to +4, BAB gets up to +12, and Sun Devotion rises to +18, so average damage tops out around 80.5. D's Magic Circle gets buffed up with Protective Aura, and although it's still disapointing that the deflection bonus doesn't stack with our Cha bonus, the lesser globe of invulnerability is a pretty nifty perk, if not so much for D then particularly for his allies. Shield other allows D to offer some protection to any virginal maidens that manage to wander outside his protective aura (no caster level listed, so HD = caster level, and range is somewhere around 60' to 70'). While this is probably a dumb thing to do (even with the 1d12 hit die, Risen Martyrs are probably not going to be huge piles of HP either), this allows D to make a heroic sacrifice to protect a young innocent maiden from some dramatic catastrophe, like a gothic castle with a bad case of Collapsing Lairs (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CollapsingLair). (TVTropes again. You have been warned.) Celestial brilliance may be gilding the lily a bit, as we already have multiple sources of glowing auras (Nimbus of Light, Sun Devotion, Daylight), but could be useful for clearing out low-level cannon fodder of the undead/demonic variety. Holy Aura upgrades D's Magic Circle/Protective Aura: +4 resistance bonus now applies to all saves, he gets spell resistance 25, and any evil creature that attacks D has to make a Fort save DC 24 or be blinded. Unfortunately this doesn't affect undead (immune to anything involving a Fort save), but is a nice little screw-you to any non-undead evil creatures, who can now enjoy an additional +2d6 sneak attack damage for being blinded. So, to sum up what Risen Martyr does for D:

Spirutual Body: D can ignore his Blood Dependency (Ex), and he gains a bunch of immunities, including immunity to a vampire's Blood Drain (Ex) and Dominate (Su) attacks.

Charisma Increases: This adds to D's AC, increases his damage (via Divine Might), increases the save DC on some of his (Su) abilities, and increases his Turn Undead attempts, which in turn gives him more uses of Sacred Vitality, Sun Devotion, and Furious Strike.

Deflection Bonus: Adds Cha bonus to AC, which is pretty handy when using Shock Trooper.

Holy Purpose: If defined specifically to just hunting vampires, then this bonus helps make up for the Risen Martyr's sucktastic BAB and skill points. If defined more broadly to apply to dealing with a vampire's minions, infiltrating his castle, or anything done to oppose his influence in the surrounding countryside, then it could be a tremendous boon in a vampire-themed campaign.

Bless: +1 morale bonus stacks with Holy Purpose (sacred bonus) and Furious Strike (untyped). Allies may also find it useful, either for attacks or for saves against fear (which stacks with the resistance bonus from D's protective aura).

Magic Circle Against Evil: While the deflection/resistance bonus is redundant or useless for D, they do apply to his allies, and the protection against evil summoned creatures (via Children of the Night or some other summoning ability) works for both D and his allies.

Daylight: I hate this spell. Mostly because the name of the spell is "daylight", but it doesn't actually count as daylight. In which case, why furthaluva Great Gygax's Ghost would you ever call this spell "daylight"? On the other hand, it's an at-will touch spell, so you can spread it around wherever you like, and it counters darkness, which tends to be a popular SLA among various evil creatures.

Detect Evil: This overlaps a bit with two other abilities, Detect Undead from Soldier of Light, and the Detect Favored Enemy ability from Nemesis. However, Detect Evil covers non-undead sources of evil, and can also help ascertain if the vampire we're dealing with is the "Misunderstood Monster With a Heart of Gold" variety.

Protective Aura: As with Magic Circle, the deflection/resistance bonus is redundant for D (not-so-redundant for his allies), but the lesser globe of invulnerability is of course awesomesauce on toast.

Shield Other: As I mentioned earlier, this allows D to offer some protection to allies who wander out of his protective aura, and could make a few opportunities for a dramatic "hero sacrifices himself to save an ally" scene.

Celestial Brilliance: Oh my, how could we possibly live (or unlive) without yet another glowing aura ability? While it's a bit doubtful D will need to illuminate something beyond his Nimbus of Light, Sun Devotion, and Daylight abilities, this also is a no-save no-SR area effect that can soften up or get rid of undead/demonic cannon fodder. It can also dispel or counter deeper darkness.

Holy Aura: Most of this is already covered by Magic Circle/Protective Aura, but there are two new abilities here just for D: Spell Resistance 25 allows him to shrug off any spells that gets past his immunities and lesser globe of invulnerability, and any evil creature that attacks him has to make a Fort save DC 24 vs. blindness. While this doesn't apply to undead (immune to anything involving a Fort save), it opens up some opportunities for D to use sneak attack against non-undead evil creatures.

Acid/Cold/Electricity Immunity: These are useful because... uh, because... um. Acid-Spitting Vampires... is that a thing? Uttercold Assault Necromancers, maybe. Actually, I may have found a use: use Shield Other on your allies, and then absorb (and ignore) the energy damage they take. Which probably doesn't work the way I think it does, but that's the best I could come up with.

Perfection: D is now considered a Celestial Guardinal. But what he'd really like to know is... does he still get the same discount at Hot Topic?

Final Ascension: Presumably after completing his purpose, D gets immediately yanked up into the upper planes for a little bit of facetime with the "Big E". As Elishar weighs his soul on the Balance of Life, D will finally know for certain if redemption possible for a half-vampire? Will his good deeds outweigh the Sins of his Sire, or will he be damned to the fires of Hell for hunting down and killing his own kin? And then Elishar shows him that after the first movie/manga, there are still 26 more novels to go through in the main storyline, and the sidestory stuff, and then some additional short story compilations... And, of course, Elishar is hugely into the fanfic!



Book of Exalted Deeds: Nimbus of Light, Nemesis
Complete Champion: Spiritual Connection ACF, Death's Ruin ACF, Sun Devotion
Complete Mage: Spell Reflection ACF
Complete Warrior: Favored Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Divine Might, Improved Favored Enemy
Deities & Demigods: Soldier of Light
Dungeonscape: Trap Expert ACF
Fiendish Codex: Hellreaver
Libris Mortis: Half-Vampire, Sacred Vitality

[Heliomance]

"I don't know about you, but I'm finding this an awfully persuasive entry..."


Voci Causam
Lawful Good
"Martial" (Changeling) Rogue 1/Marshal 1/(Cloistered) Cleric 1/Savant 2/Emissary of Barachiel 5/Risen Martyr 10



Str 10
Dex 12
Con 08
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 18

Int +1 at level 4
Cha +1/+1/+1/+1 at levels 8/12/16/20



Voci Causam was born to the streets of a large city. It was a city overrun by corruption and greed. (Insert villain here -- Liches, devils, demons, dragons) ruled over the city with an iron fist. These overlords used politics and the economy to hold their power and keep the peoples of the city practically enslaved in their poverty.

As a changeling, Voci could move freely around town, slipping into elven winehouses, gnomish gambling parlors, halfling slave pits, human brothels.... He saw the city for what it was, the divide layers kept separated by the powers that were. He saw the worst of conditions; the best of luxuries. All divided by racial lines.

And he vowed, one day, to put an end to the oppression.

But could one man talk everyone around him into banding together, to rise in unity to fight back against their oppressors? Could he somehow sway each race to fight for the freedom of the others? Could he convince everyone to abolish corruption, rewrite the laws of their land, and bring about a peaceful city where all were equal and free?

And once the city was overthrown? Then what? What of the kingdom? The country? The continent? The world?

What of the planes beyond?

Could one man do all that?

Voci Causam was willing to try.....





Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features
Languages


1st
"Martial" (Changeling) Rogue 1
+0
+0
+2
+0

4 Bluff
4 Decipher Script
4 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
4 Knowledge: N&R
4 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
4 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
4 Use Magic Device
2 Use Psionic Device

1st: Master Linguist; B: Improved Initiative
Social Intuition
Auto: Common; Bonus: Elven; Bonus: Dwarven; Skill Rank: Gnome; ML: Abyssal


2nd
Marshal 1
+0
+2
+2
+2

5 Bluff
4 Decipher Script
5 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
5 K: N&R
1 K: tP
5 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
5 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
4 Use Magic Device
2 Use Psionic Device

B: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Minor Aura (Motivate Charisma)
ML: Sylvan


3rd
(Cloistered) Cleric 1
+0
+4
+2
+4

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
6 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
5 K: N&R
6 K: tP
5 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
5 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
4 Use Magic Device
2 Use Psionic Device

3rd: Servant of the Heavens
Domains (Community; Knowledge; Mind); Lore; Turn Undead
ML: Infernal


4th
Savant 1
+0
+4
+2
+6

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
7 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
5 K: N&R
6 K: tP
5 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
5 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
7 Use Magic Device
6 Use Psionic Device


--
Academic Lore; Skill Assistance (Listen); Trapfinding
ML: Ignan


5th
Savant 2
+1
+4
+2
+7

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
8 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
5 K: N&R
8 K: tP
7 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
5 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
8 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

B: Words of Creation
--
ML: Auran


6th
Emissary of Barachiel 1
+1
+4
+2
+9

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
9 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
5 K: N&R
8 K: tP
9 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
7 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
9 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

6th: Planar Touchstone
Calling
ML: Celestial


7th
Emissary of Barachiel 2
+2
+4
+2
+10

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
10 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
5 K: N&R
8 K: tP
10 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
10 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
10 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
--
ML: Goblin


8th
Emissary of Barachiel 3
+3
+5
+3
+10

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
11 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
11 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
11 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
11 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Conversion
ML: Undercommon


9th
Emissary of Barachiel 4
+4
+5
+3
+11

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
12 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A&E
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
12 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
12 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
12 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

9th: Nimbus of Light
--
ML: Orc


10th
Emissary of Barachiel 5
+4
+5
+3
+11

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
13 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
13 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
13 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
4 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Sustenance
ML: Gnoll


Martyrdom
Risen Martyr 0
+4
+5
+3
+13
--
--
Spiritual Body
--


11th
Risen Martyr 1
+4
+5
+3
+13

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
14 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
14 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
14 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
5 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Char +2; Deflection; Holy Purpose +1
ML: Draconic


12th
Risen Martyr 2
+5
+5
+3
+14

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
15 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
15 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
15 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
6 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

12th: Ancestral Relic
Bless; Magic Circle Against Evil
ML: Kenku


13th
Risen Martyr 3
+5
+6
+4
+14

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
16 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
16 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
16 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
7 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Daylight; Holy Purpose +2
ML: Gith


14th
Risen Martyr 4
+6/1
+6
+4
+15

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
17 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
17 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
17 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
8 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Acid Immunity; Detect Evil
ML: Drow Sign Language


15th
Risen Martyr 5
+6/1
+6
+4
+15

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
18 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
18 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
18 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
9 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

15th: Widen Supernatural Ability (Conversion)
Char +2; Protective Aura
ML: Darfellan


16th
Risen Martyr 6
+7/2
+7
+5
+16

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
19 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
19 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
19 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
10 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Holy Purpose +3; Shield Other
ML: Tuilvilanuue


17th
Risen Martyr 7
+7/2
+7
+5
+16

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
20 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
20 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
20 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
11 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Celestial Brilliance; Cold Immunity
ML: Halfling


18th
Risen Martyr 8
+8/3
+7
+5
+17

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
21 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
21 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
21 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
12 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

18th: Master Manipulator
Holy Aura
ML: Illumian


19th
Risen Martyr 9
+8/3
+8
+6
+17

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
22 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
22 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
22 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
13 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Electricity Immunity; Holy Purpose +4
ML: Quori


20th
Risen Martyr 10
+9/4
+8
+6
+18

5 Bluff
6 Decipher Script
23 Diplomancy
1 Disable Device
4 Forgery
3 Gather Information
1 K: A
1 K: A&E
1 K: G
1 K: H
1 K: L
5 K: N&R
1 K: R
8 K: tP
23 Listen
1 Open Lock
2 Search
23 Sense Motive
1 Speak Language
14 Spot
13 Use Magic Device
8 Use Psionic Device

--
Perfection; Final Ascension
ML: Buommi





Spells per Day(Cleric/Emissary)


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
3
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
3
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
3
1+1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
3
1+1/0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
3
1+1/1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
3
1+1/2
-/0
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
3
1+1/3
-/1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th-20th
3
1+1/3
-/2
-/0
-
-
-
-
-
-



Spells Known:
Character level:
6: Protection From Chaos; Sanctuary
7: Message; Protection From Chaos; Sanctuary
8: Message; Protection From Chaos; Sanctuary; Glitterdust; Whispering Wind
9: Charm Person; Message; Protection From Chaos; Sanctuary; Blur; Glitterdust; Whispering Wind
10: Charm Person; Message; Protection From Chaos; Sanctuary; Blur; Glitterdust; Whispering Wind; Clairaudience/Clairvoyance; Remove Curse



Through the first five levels, the character is a social skill monkey, with a focus on Diplomancy. He speaks a multitude of languages and can take a crack a Deciphering Scripts he can't otherwise read and possibly forge documents of those languages that he can.

He has Lore (from Cloistered Cleric) and Academic Lore (from Savant). (Check with your DM about whether or not to stack levels into one ability at your table.) It doesn't make him a know-it-all, but he will probably know some weird stuff from time to time.

Ranks + Cha + Minor Aura (Marshal) = 16 in both Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device. A roll of 4 or higher is all that's needed to use wands and dorjes.

Play as: Party Face



Do you notice how that Diplomacy skill keeps getting more ranks? You did? Amazing, isn't it?
Those knowledge skills keep getting trained, too, bit by bit. Still not a know-it-all, but he's got (presumably) three chances now to figure something out, which makes him a know-some-of-it.

The 6th level Planar Touchstone feat can be used for many different things, from time to time, depending on opportunity and availability. But when originally taken, he tunes into the Catalogues of Enlightenment to gain the ability of the Pleasure Domain (immunity to damage and drain to CHA score).

The Calling ability helps out friends (assuming a good party) while simultaneously hindering foes (assuming evil enemies.)

11 ranks in UMD + double CHA means he's auto-hitting on wand use at level 8.

The Conversion ability comes into play at the same time that the Undercommon language is learned. Coincidence? Nimbus of Light gets added one level later for those trips to the Underdark. Lawful Good drow, anyone?



Ok, if you're going to wander around in the Underdark as a shining torch converting drow and svirfneblim to lawful good, eventually an umber hulk is going to rip you to shreds. Thus, Martyrdom! Welcome to undea--uhm--relife!

Deathless are immune to non-lethal damage (among many other things) which makes the use of Calling/Conversion/Sustenance that much less taxing.

The CHA bonus(es) are certainly welcome to this build, as is the added use of said stat (deflection bonus to AC). And the Holy Purpose bonus (including the use of the Diplomacy skill) is useful in the crusade to convert the world to lawful good status and unify the humanoids of the world.

When 12th level comes around, Charisma gets raised to 22 (+6). With 8 ranks of Use Psionic Device and the Marshal Aura plus bonuses from the Yarmulke (see below), he's auto-hitting dorjes activation.
Also at 12th comes Ancestral Relic, used to get:

I'm not going to stat out the whole thing here. Just know that it'll gain the abilities of the Amulet of Word Twisting (MIC p.71), the Medal of Gallantry (MIC p.116), the Veil of Allure (MIC p. 145), and the Circlet of Persuasion (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#circletofPersuasion)).

But that the real draw to it is in gaining the abilities of the Admiral's Bicorn (Stormwrack p. 131). That allows for the wearer's voice to be amplified to 100 ft, extending the range of the Marshal's Minor Aura and Calling/Conversion. (At 15th, with Widen Supernatural Ability, the Conversion ability can be widened to all humanoids who can hear him within 200ft!)

Even accounting for all of these abilities stacking onto the same item and (some of them) changing from the throat slot to the head slot, there should still be plenty of room left in the budget to add a solid bonus to Charisma.


The growing list of immunities are icing on the cake. Any diplomancer is going to find immunity to poison to be a handy thing. Acid, cold, electricity immunity is useful for anyone. And, of course, magic circle of protection from evil, protective aura, and holy aura are very useful indeed to a character that may very well become the focus of assassination attempts of evil orginizations.

By 20th level, Voci knows every humanoid language (unless I missed one or two) and then some. His Conversion ability extends to 100 ft (double that once each day).
As for


23 Ranks
+6 UNTYPED bonus (Skill Synergy -- Bluff; K:N&R; Sense Motive)
+3 UNTYPED bonus (Skill Focus)
+2 UNTYPED bonus (Community Domain SpC)
+2 UNTYPED bonus (Mind Domain SpC)
+2 CIRCUMSTANCE bonus vs. good creatures (Nimbus Of Light)
+4 SACRED bonus (Holy Purpose)
+4 INSIGHT bonus (Yarmulke -- Amulet of Word Twisting)
+2 UNTYPED bonus (Yarmulke -- Medal of Gallantry)
+3 COMPETENCE bonus (Yarmulke -- Circlet of Persuasion)
+5 UNTYPED bonus (Yarmulke -- Admiral's Bicorn)
+2 MORALE bonus (Yarmulke -- Amulet of Word Twisting)
+8 Charima modifier (At least. Perhaps +3 more from the Yarmulke)
+8 CIRCUMSTANCE bonus (Motivate Charisma Minor Aura [At least. Perhaps +3 more from the Yarmulke])

Is 72. +2 vs good creatures. (Plus, perhaps, six more from increased Charisma from the Yarmulke.)
And he can take 10 on the check.
And add another +2 to the DC of Calling/Conversion (from the Yarmulke's Veil of Allure ability).
Add to all of that a few one-off bonuses (from a wand of Voice of the Dragon (SpC) or Universal Aptitude (Tome of Magic) or.....)

Even after he's moved on to another town days after his Conversion speech, that Will save is going to be hard to hit.




Races of Eberron -- Changeling race; Changeling Rogue sub level; Master Linguist feat;
Miniatures Handbook -- Marshal class
Book of Exalted Deeds -- Servant of the Heavens feat; Words of Creation feat; Emissary of Barachiel class; Nibus of Light feat; Risen Martyr class; Ancestral Relic feat
Spell Compendium -- Community Domain; Mind Domain
Dragon Compendium -- Savant class
Planar Handbook -- Planar Touchstone feat
Tome of Magic -- Widen Supernatural Ability feat
Player's Handbook II -- Master Manipulator feat
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm) -- Martial Rogue ACF; Cloistered Cleric ACF

[Heliomance]

Names changed to protect the guilty, as they say


Ahmtel
CG Middle-Aged Kalashtar Warblade 3/Marshal 3/Psion 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Risen Martyr 10


To be, or not to be--that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die, to sleep--
No more--and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep—
To sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may comeExerpts from The Tragedy of Ahmtel, Risen Martyr, by Jillian Fatespear as performed at the Khavish Theater in Sharn:

ACT II, Scene II

AHMTEL: Then there can be no accord betwixt us?

NECROPOLITAN ASSASSIN: Nay, thy words fall upon dead ears and thine
silvered tongue tarnishes in the dirt
o’ th’ grave. You find no fanatic here but
a mere workman at his craft’s humble bench.

WARFORGED JUGGERNAUT: And I a chef of iron at his pot,
to stir and tenderize and cleave ’til of thy
stringy, argent, tongue is wrought
a stew our master’s palate might accept.
AHMTEL: You waste your time good sir, for served in
the sweet dish thy lord’s appetite so craves
the flavor of mine tongue is known to be
most satisfying in both word and deed.
But if linguistics, cunning though they be,
will not prevent the clashing of our blades,
Then let us dispense with all words save these,
Have at you, knaves.

They fight, Ahmtel slays the necropolitan, but is decapitated by the warforged.

JUGGERNAUT: Ahmtel, thy words are sharper than thine sword.
Thy frail flesh mortal as this final wound
Too soft by half to stand hard ’gainst my lord.

Enter Aethelya the sprite. She stands above the proceedings, clutches her head as if in pain, and begins to weep. Ahmtel’s head rolls toward her.

AHMTEL: Cry not for me, gentle lady, for I
But drift asleep t’ th’ sweet holy dreams of
My rest in Arborea

Aethelya: Nay Ahmtel,
My tears are not for fear of your soul’s fate,
But for the world from which thy link is cut.
The saintly deeds that thou dost leave undone,
and that the voice inside my mind should fade
from living word to echoed memory

AHMTEL: Ah my Aethelya, say no more, for what
could ever drift through dreams of afterlife
To tempt my soul onward ’pon its journey
While such as you still walks the waking world?
Fear not my love for whilst you still have needs
one little death shan’t set back such as me.

Ahmtel’s head rolls back onto his body, and he stands up.

AHMTEL: Seems flesh and wound were not so mortal, knave.
Look ’pon my mirth. See I am not so grave.
I’ve naught but laughter for your master, slave.

JUGGERNAUT: Yea, little else. For why should you believe,
another charge of mine will leave, ought but
the same end? You are a joke and do not
improve in the retelling.

AHMTEL: So you say,
But this time the jest comes sharper and at
thine expense.

They fight, the warforged dies.

ACT III, Scene IV

Ahmtel enters stage right in disguise, and is stopped by two guards.

GUARD 1: Who goes there?

AHMTEL: A simple messenger.
I bear a missive for your lord from Sharn.

GUARD 1: Then pass and make they business quick.

GUARD 2: Nay, hold a moment. I know thee.
Thou art Ahmtel of the Quori.
Consort of the rebel fey,
eternal foe unto our master’s peace.

AHMTEL: An inspired story to be certain.
But I fear that thou art much mistaken.
Ahmtel is dead. Such is th’ news I deliver.
I hoped that it would land in thy lord’s ear,
but mayhap his doorstep will suffice.

LORD KLIUDAUTH: Dead?
Wherefore came you by this revelation?

AHMTEL: Your lordship, I beheld the deed firsthand.
My eyes mere feet from where his body fell.

GUARD 2: All well and good, but my concern is not
with feet or hands. I must know whether thou
art armed.

The guards pat down Ahmtel

AHMTEL: I bear no arms but carry Ahmtel’s head.
I would that the lord be first to see it.

KLIUDAUTH: Yes! Come here and prove that your tongue speaks truth.

Ahmtel steps forward to the throne and removes his hood. The spotlight shines down brightly upon him.

AHMTEL: By this light see the truth upon my word
Here is the head of Ahmtel, wicked lord.
And here the ring I bear in place of sword.
A pois’ner’s tool, but with no toxin stor’d.
Save insight and the love of my betrothed
Who you so covet in your lustful dreams.
Now die! Back to Dol Quor with thee.

Ahmtel kills Kliudauth. The guards fight Ahmtel and are slain as well. Aethelya enters.

AETHELYA: Ahmtel!
Your light grows blinding strong. I fear that you
Must walk toward ’t ere long. Can you yet stay
For just another night? Before that last
Fading of thy light?

AHMTEL: Nay, my love I am
Dismiss’d back to what folly prods men to
Know as bliss. A poor jest, but death is cheap.

AETHELYA: From amongst Arborea’s expanse of trees
Seek out a place well suited to my needs
If you are there, I shall want for naught else,
And on that plane we may forever dwell.
Dream of me ’til I may follow after.
And our jest may yet climax with laughter.
Now cracks a noble heart. Good-night, sweet prince;
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.

Ahmtel exits, rising up off the stage into the rafters.

Ability Scores32 Point Buy: 13 Str, 13 Dex, 8 Con, 13 Int, 12 Wis, 17 Cha
Middle Age: 12 Str, 12 Dex, 7 Con, 14 Int, 13 Wis, 18 Cha
Level 4: 12 Str, 12 Dex, 7 Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 19 Cha
Level 8: 12 Str, 12 Dex, 7 Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 20 Cha
Level 10: 12 Str, 12 Dex, – Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 20 Cha
Level 11: 12 Str, 12 Dex, – Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 22 Cha
Level 12: 12 Str, 12 Dex, – Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 23 Cha
Level 15: 12 Str, 12 Dex, – Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 25 Cha
Level 16: 12 Str, 12 Dex, – Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 26 Cha
Level 20: 12 Str, 12 Dex, – Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 27 Cha

The Build


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Warblade 1
+1
+2
+0
+0
Diplomacy 4, Concentration 4, Tumble 4, Balance 4, Jump 4, Intimidate 3, Use Magic Device 1cc
Nymph’s Kiss
Battle Clarity (Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude


2nd
Marshal 1
+1
+4
+0
+2
Diplomacy 5, Concentration 4, Tumble 5, Balance 4, Jump 4, Intimidate 5, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 2, Handle Animal 1
Skill Focus (Diplomacy)B
Minor Aura (Motivate Charisma), Skilled City-Dweller (Trade Ride for Tumble)


3rd
Psion (Telepath) 1
+1
+4
+0
+4
Diplomacy 5, Concentration 6, Tumble 5, Balance 4, Jump 4, Intimidate 5, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 5, Handle Animal 1
Skill Focus (Concentration), Psicrystal Affinity (Single Minded)B
-


4th
Warblade 2
+2
+5
+0
+4
Diplomacy 5, Concentration 7, Tumble 5, Balance 5, Jump 5, Intimidate 5, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 7, Handle Animal 1, Extreme Leap
-
Uncanny Dodge


5th
Marshal 2
+3
+6
+0
+5
Diplomacy 7, Concentration 7, Tumble 7, Balance 5, Jump 5, Intimidate 5, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 8, Handle Animal 1, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery
-
Major Aura (Motivate Attack) +1


6th
Marshal 3
+4
+6
+1
+5
Diplomacy 8, Concentration 7, Tumble 8, Balance 5, Jump 5, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 8, Handle Animal 1, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand
Psicrystal Containment
Minor Aura (Motivate Dexterity)


7th
Warblade 3
+5
+6
+2
+6
Diplomacy 8, Concentration 10, Tumble 8, Balance 5, Jump 7, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 8, Handle Animal 1, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered
-
Battle Ardor (Critical Confirmation)


8th
Uncanny Trickster 1
+5
+6
+4
+6
Diplomacy 9, Concentration 11cc, Tumble 8, Balance 5, Jump 9, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 9, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second ImpressionB
-
Favorite Trick (Never Outnumbered)


9th
Uncanny Trickster 2
+6
+6
+5
+6
Diplomacy 12, Concentration 12cc, Tumble 10, Balance 5, Jump 11, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 11, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift ConcentrationB
Nimbus of Light
Favorite Trick (Swift Concentration), +1 Level of Warblade


10th
Uncanny Trickster 3
+7
+7
+5
+7
Diplomacy 13, Concentration 13cc, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 13, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 1, Bluff 13, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume QuirkB, Speak Language (Celestial)
Blade Meditation (Diamond Mind)B
Favorite Trick (Nimble Stand), +1 Level of Warblade


11th
Risen Martyr 1
+7
+7
+5
+9
Diplomacy 14, Concentration 14, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 13, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 14cc, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 1, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
-
Spiritual Body, Charisma Score Increase, Deflection, Holy Purpose +1


12th
Risen Martyr 2
+8
+7
+5
+10
Diplomacy 15, Concentration 15, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 14cc, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 14, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 2, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk
Psychic Renewal
Bless, Magic Circle Against Evil


13th
Risen Martyr 3
+8
+8
+6
+10
Diplomacy 16, Concentration 16, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 14, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 15cc, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 3, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
-
Daylight, Holy Purpose +2


14th
Risen Martyr 4
+9
+8
+6
+11
Diplomacy 17, Concentration 17, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 15cc, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 15, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 4, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
-
Acid Immunity, Detect Evil


15th
Risen Martyr 5
+9
+8
+6
+11
Diplomacy 18, Concentration 18, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 15, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 16cc, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 5, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
Psionic Meditation*
Charisma Score Increase, Protective Aura


16th
Risen Martyr 6
+10
+9
+7
+12
Diplomacy 19, Concentration 19, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 15, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 17cc, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 6, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
-
Holy Purpose +3, Shield Other


17th
Risen Martyr 7
+10
+9
+7
+12
Diplomacy 20, Concentration 20, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 15, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 18cc, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 7, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
-
Celestial Brilliance, Cold Immunity


18th
Risen Martyr 8
+11
+9
+7
+13
Diplomacy 21, Concentration 21, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 15, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 19cc, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 8, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
Martial Study (Greater Insightful Strike)*
Holy Aura


19th
Risen Martyr 9
+11
+10
+8
+13
Diplomacy 22, Concentration 22, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 15, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 20.5cc, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 8, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
-
Electricity Immunity, Holy Purpose +4


20th
Risen Martyr 10
+12
+10
+8
+14
Diplomacy 23, Concentration 23, Tumble 12, Balance 5, Jump 15, Intimidate 8, Use Magic Device 2, Bluff 22cc, Handle Animal 1, Disguise 5, Gather Information 8, Extreme Leap, Social Recovery, Nimble Stand, Never Outnumbered, Second Impression, Swift Concentration, Assume Quirk, Speak Language (Celestial)
-
Perfection, Final Ascension

*This assumes that initiator level bootstrapping with Uncanny Trickster doesn’t work, as ruled in the Legacy Champion round. IL bootstrapping would allow Martial Study (Greater Insightful Strike) to be pushed up to level 15.

Subsystems

Level
Initiator Level
Maneuvers Readied
Maneuvers Known
Stances Known


1
1
3
Moment of the Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap
Leading The Charge


4
3
3
Moment of the Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Action Before Thought
Leading The Charge


7
5
3
Moment of the Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Action Before Thought, Insightful Strike
Leading The Charge


9
6*
3
Moment of the Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Action Before Thought, Insightful Strike, White Raven Tactics
Leading The Charge, Leaping Dragon Stance


10
7*
4
Moment of the Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Action Before Thought, Insightful Strike, White Raven Tactics, Mind Over Body
Leading The Charge, Leaping Dragon Stance


18*
11
4
Moment of the Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Action Before Thought, Insightful Strike, White Raven Tactics, Mind Over Body, Greater Insightful Strike
Leading The Charge, Leaping Dragon Stance


*Again, assumes no IL bootstrapping, though the only major change that would result from bootstrapping working is the bumping of Greater Insightful Strike up to level 15.

Ahmtel has PP equal to his character level plus 2, plus whatever bonus PP he gets from his Int score (at least 1 at 14 Int). His powers known are Control Light and Psionic Charm.



Level 5We start out life largely as a party face. Warblade is something of an odd choice for this, but that d12 at first level helps with survivability given our low Con pre-type change and the Psion dip (which will make more sense later). Marshal is standard fare for boosting face skills and gives heavy armor proficiency to help maybe not die. Nothing all that exciting is happening yet.

Level 10Uncanny Trickster is a pain to get into, and I’ve decided to forego arguing for IL bootstrapping, but the smaller HD are made up by the deathless type, and it grants some welcome extra skill points and skill tricks, while allowing the avoidance of multiclass penalties. So that’s nice. We’ve also finally got Insightful Strike and the tools to start getting some mileage out of it. As of level 10, Ahmtel is a 0th level Risen Martyr, meaning he’s got the Deathless type and Concentration becomes Cha based for him. This means that he gets to use his highest ability score, gets to do so twice thanks to Motivate Charisma, and gets an extra +2 from Nymph’s Kiss, along with the other advantages he’s been accumulating (+3 from Skill Focus, +3 for his Single-Minded Psicrystal, +2 from Blade Meditation, and the ability to take 15 on the check by expending one of his two Psionic Focuses). That all totals to a result of 48 before items (64 if you can get your hands on a Third Eye Concentrate, Masterwork Item, and +4 Cha item). That’s a sizeable chunk of damage, and it can be delivered as a touch attack using a poison ring, which gets its usual single point of damage (you could put ravages in it as well, I guess) replaced by your Concentration check (I’d also carry around a reach weapon to keep options open).
Level 15Things move along, with Cha boosts and Holy Purpose helping to keep our Concentration checks up and a few more Psionic feats making Insightful Strike more spammable. The general pattern of combat will be something like this. Outside of social scenarios Ahmtel will walk around with Motivate Dexterity up, which will boost his whole party’s initiative checks and help him to tumble into position in his first round. Once he’s done so, he’ll take a swift action to switch his Minor Aura to Motivate Charisma, and expend one of his two Psionic Focuses to take 15 on the Concentration check for Insightful Strike. On the following round, he’ll expend his second Psionic Focus (from Psicrystal Containment) to recover Insightful Strike as a swift action with Psychic Renewal, recover his first psionic focus as a move action with Psionic Meditation (5ft stepping out of AoO range first, if applicable), then make another Insightful strike, expending the regained focus to take 15 on the Concentration check again. For situations where the glowing is inconvenient, you can suppress it for up to a minute by manifesting Control Light, and can even maintain the concentration as a swift action for a few rounds (during which you have your standard free for social skills) by using Swift Concentration which is one of your Favorite Tricks.

Level 20We’re now looking at a Concentration check result of 68 before items. With the full complement of Cha boosters, Third Eye Concentrate, and Masterwork tool, it goes up to 92, and if you can make like the party Truenamer and get your +10 Third Eye Concentrate replaced with a +30 competence item, it goes up to 112. This check result is now being doubled, thanks to Greater Insightful Strike, so there’s some punishment being dished out. The threshold for taking out an average CR20 opponent in two rounds is around 200 damage per round, so Ahmtel is right around where he needs to be, and is very reliable in his damage output. Also note that in a game with heavy item restrictions, it’s a very simple matter to convert to a VoP build, so as long as you’re prepared for it ahead of time, you can manage better than you otherwise might even under less than favorable circumstances. You should also reach the 24 PP needed to recover Greater Insightful Strike with Psychic Renewal 4 times per day, probably with a few points left over to manage your aura with Control Light and maybe drop the occasional Charm as well. Also, even barely trained, your massive Cha and Motivate Charisma make it easy to UMD various things, and you can activate Dorjes as a Psion, so make use of Alter Self, Polymorph, and Metamorphosis with your Outsider typing, and maybe nab something like Share Pain so that your Psicrystal can help you with the damage your Shield Other ability has you absorbing.


Sources List
Book of Exalted Deeds: Nimbus of Light, Nymph’s Kiss, Risen Martyr
Complete Scoundrel: Skill Tricks, Uncanny Trickster
Miniatures Handbook: Marshal
Tome of Battle: Blade Meditation, Martial Study, Psychic Renewal, Warblade, Maneuvers
Everything Else should be in the SRD.

Credit to Shakespeare’s Hamlet for the famous quotes and for the fluff’s inspiration.

[Heliomance]

And that is your lot - but four entries for this most exalted ingredient. Now, have at!

[Darrin]

And that is your lot - but four entries for this most exalted ingredient. Now, have at! (emphasis added)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e6/a7/3d/e6a73d5eec4c86fc977f94ab44f94183.jpg

I'm glad you gave the extension. A small round, but some very good entries.

[Deadline]

Huh, I'm glad I didn't put my idea into reality, Ahmtel is quite similar. I was shooting for a Hellbred Warblade/Marshal/Evangelist of Phieran/Risen Martyr. He focused on Perform(Oratory) or Diplomacy, Intimidation, and Concentration(for Insightful Strike damage). He was a former evil warrior who had changed his ways too late. He came back as a Hellbred, and found Phieran's religion. And, not long after, was burned at the stake for evangelizing. Phieran brought him back a second time.

He'd use his words to sway the opinion of others, or burst into flames and try to frighten evil doers in order to stay their hand. If all else failed, he'd cut them down. I mostly like the idea of a "twice-martyred" kind of character, and as an undead-like character who scared the bad guys and was wreathed in ghostly fire, I could use this as the character art:

http://cdn.obsidianportal.com/assets/22672/burning_skeleton.JPG

[WhamBamSam]

Lots of Marshal this round. Not altogether surprising, as jacking up your Cha is one of the few semi-active things that Risen Martyr does.

The second build I was considering was some cocktail of Half-Elf Paragon/Sorcerer or Sha'ir/Marshal with Aereni Focus (Iaijutsu Focus) based around the Whirling Blade spell. Aernal is big on Deathless what with the whole Undying Court thing, so it seemed a decent enough fit. Didn't really hammer out the details, though.

[Amphetryon]

Mine was going to be Spellscale Crusader/Corrupt Avenger/Risen Martyr.

[WhamBamSam]

Mine was going to be Spellscale Crusader/Corrupt Avenger/Risen Martyr.I'm guessing the rules argument had something to do with the whether Deathless handle Taint like undead do?

[Darrin]

My other ideas:

Idea #1: Crusader 6/Risen Martyr 10/Eternal Blade 2/Crusader +2.

Since Risen Martyrs instantly die at 0 HP, my first thought was "Get into Immortal Fortitude stance and never leave." Every time you take damage in Immortal Fortitude, you make a Fort save to ignore the damage. The klunky part was I wanted to use the Deathless type to ignore the Fort saves, and essentially be immune to damage, but... rules-wise, it's not really clear how the text of Immortal Fortitude would work with being Deathless. I could have tried to argue that an attack or effect that caused damage picks up a Fort save from Immortal Fortitude, but there's also an argument that being Deathless makes you immune to the effects of the stance itself, in which case Immortal Fortitude does absolutely nothing for you. My best argument was "It takes 20 levels to do this, so... even if it's kinda borked, most DMs should allow something to break at level 20, right?"

Idea #2: Ardent 8/Fighter 1/Spelldancer 1/Risen Martyr 10.

I was trying to combine the "immune to Fort saves" thing with Spelldancer, and spent most of two weeks trying to figure it out, but just couldn't quite get everything to fit. Ardent was my last stab at it, as Magic Mantle helps qualify for various arcane PrCs, but Spelldancer requires FOUR crappy prereq feats to get into it, on top of the two Exalted feats for Risen Martyr, and that didn't leave much room for the feats I was spelldancing for, like Persistent Spell and so forth. Not to mention I wanted Practiced Manifester/Practiced Spellcaster in there, too, along with feats to get some higher-level powers, but I couldn't figure out how to fit everything in and still have something functionally playable. That and even though the magic mantle allows me to treat magic/psionics as interchangable, there aren't any clear rules on what happens when you apply non-psionic Metamagic feats to psionic powers.

Idea #3: Crusader 5/Hellreaver 5/Risen Martyr 10.

This one looked promising, and works with a strict RAW reading, but I figured there was a 50/50 chance that the judge would call it monkeysnot. A Hellreaver 5 can voluntarily take 2 Con damage to replenish his Fury points, but unlike Hellfire Warlock, there's no disclaimer that says "You can't use this if you don't have a Constitution score or are immune to Constitution damage". The Con damage isn't expressed as a spell component or a specific cost to activate the ability, so essentially the RAW says you can ignore the Con damage and get infinite Fury points. My best argument was, "They added a disclaimer to Hellfire Warlock, but they didn't add a disclaimer here, so they must have been aware of the problem of being immune to Con damage and decided that this was allowable for Hellreavers." When Heliomance extended the deadline, I was going to dust this one off, flesh out the build, and submit it, with the idea that I might luck into a bronze with a sympathetic judge and a low turnout. But then I stumbled into a more interesting idea that didn't require a very specific RAW ruling to work.

[Jormengand]

My entry would have been a knight/paladin who went around trying to be immune to people and then challenging them in the face.

[Amphetryon]

I'm guessing the rules argument had something to do with the whether Deathless handle Taint like undead do?

Combined with whether Tainted Characters can achieve and maintain Exalted status, yep.

[Troacctid]

Crusader 5/Hellreaver 5/Risen Martyr 10.

This one looked promising, and works with a strict RAW reading, but I figured there was a 50/50 chance that the judge would call it monkeysnot. A Hellreaver 5 can voluntarily take 2 Con damage to replenish his Fury points, but unlike Hellfire Warlock, there's no disclaimer that says "You can't use this if you don't have a Constitution score or are immune to Constitution damage". The Con damage isn't expressed as a spell component or a specific cost to activate the ability, so essentially the RAW says you can ignore the Con damage and get infinite Fury points. My best argument was, "They added a disclaimer to Hellfire Warlock, but they didn't add a disclaimer here, so they must have been aware of the problem of being immune to Con damage and decided that this was allowable for Hellreavers." When Heliomance extended the deadline, I was going to dust this one off, flesh out the build, and submit it, with the idea that I might luck into a bronze with a sympathetic judge and a low turnout. But then I stumbled into a more interesting idea that didn't require a very specific RAW ruling to work.
You have a zillion fury points, you can only use one per round, and they already refresh every encounter. I would honestly expect you to never once replenish them that way.

[The Viscount]

Looking at all of these ideas just made me realize I should have made a second build for a CG Halfling Outrider or similar mount-focused build with an emphasis on throwing javelins, and fluff it as a War Boy from Mad Max: Fury Road. They've got a great mythos that fits in perfectly: I live, I die, I live again, and upon achieving great enough glory I am escorted to Valhalla.

[KrimsonNekros]

I was working on a tribute build to Auron for mine, sadly couldn't get the table finished in time.

[Sian]

My idea was:

Human Ardent (with Conflict, Guardian, Pain&Suffering, Energy) 5 / Psychic Warrior 2 / Crusader 2 / Devoted Defender 1 / Risen Martyr 10.

With the primary shticks being the (classic) combination of Knock-Down + Thicket of Blades + Spiked Chain, offensive use of Deaden Blow, making me immune to enemy weapon attacks (as they'd become Non-lethal and deathless are immune to non-lethal damage), the combination of Guardian Mantle and Devoted Defender to 'steal' as many attacks as possible. With the additional resistance (to Fire) from Energy Mantle as the cherry on the top, and Damp Power in case anything actually manages to threaten my health ... Terrible when it comes to killing opponents, scarily competent at staying alive and keeping friends alive.

If it wasn't because it demanded an additional feat tax (Undead Meldshaper), I would have had considered making something that had Totemist in it, as Natural Attacks is less hampered by a mediocre BAB as long as they get bonuses from other places.

[The Viscount]

Since we have only 5 entries it should be easy to find a chef, right?....Right?

[Thurbane]

My Entry would have been a Half-Fey Spellscale Warmage 10/Risen Martyr 8:
http://i64.tinypic.com/122dc45.jpg- Mailman lite build (focusing on direct damage)
- Dumping Con, which eventually becomes redundant, and pumping Cha and Int.
- Half-fey sacrifices Con, but gives plenty of useful SLAs, as well as flight. Also, the LA +2 means I don't have to take the 10th level of the SI in an ECL 20 build. :smalltongue:
- Using Deathless type to make up for lack of Con, and to "exploit" the Reserves of Strength feat.
- Using Versatile Spellcaster to cast 6ths, although I feel Aves Maria did this far better than I would have.

Congrats to all entrants - you did very well with such a difficult SI.

[Darrin]

Since we have only 5 entries it should be easy to find a chef, right?....Right?

I think you mean find a judge. Hopefully more than one. But yes... if you were waiting for a round to judge, last round would have been better (only 4 entries), but 5 is still quite reasonable.

Did anyone submit twice?

[OMG PONIES]

The Care Bear (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864626&postcount=87): LG Badger Hengeyokai Beguiler 3/Marshal 2/Emissary of Bachariel 5/Risen Martyr 10
Aves Maria (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864660&postcount=88): Human Dread Necromancer 2/Human Paragon 3/Exalted Arcanist 5/Risen Martyr 10
D (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864668&postcount=89): NG Half-Vampire Human Ranger 1/Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Hellreaver 1/Soldier of Light 1/Risen Martyr 10
Voci Causam (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864702&postcount=90): LG Changeling Rogue 1/Marshal 1/Cleric 1/Savant 2/Emissary of Barachiel 5/Risen Martyr 10
Ahmtel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864711&postcount=91): CG Kalashtar Warblade 3/Mashal 3/Psion 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Risen Martyr 10


I mostly like the idea of a "twice-martyred" kind of character, and as an undead-like character who scared the bad guys and was wreathed in ghostly fire, I could use this as the character art:

http://cdn.obsidianportal.com/assets/22672/burning_skeleton.JPG

Also, alternative character art:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2013/10/11/1381505966220/Nicolas-Cage-Ghost-Rider-009.jpg


The second build I was considering was some cocktail of Half-Elf Paragon/Sorcerer or Sha'ir/Marshal with Aereni Focus (Iaijutsu Focus) based around the Whirling Blade spell. Aernal is big on Deathless what with the whole Undying Court thing, so it seemed a decent enough fit. Didn't really hammer out the details, though.

The fluff's nice, and the Iajutsu Focus/Whirling Blade would have been a fun way to focus on the buffed CHA. It's a shame you didn't get it worked out.


Mine was going to be Spellscale Crusader/Corrupt Avenger/Risen Martyr.

It would have been interesting to hear your take on Deathless, Taint, and exalted status.


Since Risen Martyrs instantly die at 0 HP, my first thought was "Get into Immortal Fortitude stance and never leave."
Nice, and I agree with your assessment of the challenge...though I think the rules are on your side. As far as effects go, Immortal Fortitude itself doesn't require a Fort Save. The effect that requires that is taking HP damage while in the stance, right?


I was trying to combine the "immune to Fort saves" thing with Spelldancer, and spent most of two weeks trying to figure it out, but just couldn't quite get everything to fit. Ardent was my last stab at it, as Magic Mantle helps qualify for various arcane PrCs...

Also would have been a fun one, though here I think you'd be more stymied by the "are you just immune to Spelldance as a whole?" question. Also, help me understand the whole "Magic Mantle is awesome" thing; I've heard it before, but I'm just not seeing it. Is it based on the "you always treat magic and psionics as identical" clause without deference to the "Most campaigns already treat them in this manner..." clause? Because, to me, that second one is what makes it less than useful, as it seems to carry with it an implication that "always" means "for very specific purposes only."


This one looked promising, and works with a strict RAW reading, but I figured there was a 50/50 chance that the judge would call it monkeysnot. A Hellreaver 5 can voluntarily take 2 Con damage to replenish his Fury points, but unlike Hellfire Warlock, there's no disclaimer that says "You can't use this if you don't have a Constitution score or are immune to Constitution damage". The Con damage isn't expressed as a spell component or a specific cost to activate the ability, so essentially the RAW says you can ignore the Con damage and get infinite Fury points. My best argument was, "They added a disclaimer to Hellfire Warlock, but they didn't add a disclaimer here, so they must have been aware of the problem of being immune to Con damage and decided that this was allowable for Hellreavers."
Yep, I can see that one being divisive. My reading, FWIW, of "you can voluntarily take 2 points of Constitution damage to fully replenish your holy fury points" is best parsed as this:
IF (you choose to take 2 points of CON damage) THEN (fully replenish your holy fury points). To me, given that as a Deathless you can't take CON damage, you never satisfy the IF condition. I understand the argument "I volunteer to take it but it's not my fault that it doesn't hurt me," but I think that one veers into the territory of overcomplicating what seems to be a pretty simple RAW statement. So I won't say monkeysnot, but I'll at least say orangutanphlegm.


My idea was:

Human Ardent (with Conflict, Guardian, Pain&Suffering, Energy) 5 / Psychic Warrior 2 / Crusader 2 / Devoted Defender 1 / Risen Martyr 10.

With the primary shticks being the (classic) combination of Knock-Down + Thicket of Blades + Spiked Chain, offensive use of Deaden Blow, making me immune to enemy weapon attacks (as they'd become Non-lethal and deathless are immune to non-lethal damage), the combination of Guardian Mantle and Devoted Defender to 'steal' as many attacks as possible. With the additional resistance (to Fire) from Energy Mantle as the cherry on the top, and Damp Power in case anything actually manages to threaten my health ... Terrible when it comes to killing opponents, scarily competent at staying alive and keeping friends alive.
Guardian Mantle & Devoted Defender are underrated as ways of drawing aggro in 3.5 for sure. Like you said, offensively you wouldn't be setting any records, but I like the dedication to a theme of "minimize incoming damage as much as possible."


My Entry would have been a Half-Fey Spellscale Warmage 10/Risen Martyr 8:
http://i64.tinypic.com/122dc45.jpg- Mailman lite build (focusing on direct damage)
- Dumping Con, which eventually becomes redundant, and pumping Cha and Int.
- Half-fey sacrifices Con, but gives plenty of useful SLAs, as well as flight. Also, the LA +2 means I don't have to take the 10th level of the SI in an ECL 20 build. :smalltongue:
- Using Deathless type to make up for lack of Con, and to "exploit" the Reserves of Strength feat.
- Using Versatile Spellcaster to cast 6ths, although I feel Aves Maria did this far better than I would have.

Congrats to all entrants - you did very well with such a difficult SI.
By "exploiting" Reserves of Strength, do you mean activating the "take damage instead of getting stunned" feature of the feat or something else?

[Thurbane]

By "exploiting" Reserves of Strength, do you mean activating the "take damage instead of getting stunned" feature of the feat or something else?

Nope, that was about the size of it. Just stacking damage boosters. Nothing spectacular...

[Darrin]

Nice, and I agree with your assessment of the challenge...though I think the rules are on your side. As far as effects go, Immortal Fortitude itself doesn't require a Fort Save. The effect that requires that is taking HP damage while in the stance, right?


It's still pretty ambiguous. Remove Immortal Fortitude, and the effect (getting hit by a sword) doesn't require a Fort save by itself. The other problem is you have to slog through (and somehow survive) 10 levels of Risen Martyr... IL isn't high enough for that stance until ECL 20.




Also would have been a fun one, though here I think you'd be more stymied by the "are you just immune to Spelldance as a whole?" question.


A Spelldancer can safely spelldance at least 1/day without risking Con damage, so obviously you're not immune to that part. Going over your limit per day is what triggers the Fort save, and the Deathless text is pretty clear on this: you are immune to physical exhaustion, sleep, etc. and could keep dancing all day if you like.



Also, help me understand the whole "Magic Mantle is awesome" thing; I've heard it before, but I'm just not seeing it. Is it based on the "you always treat magic and psionics as identical" clause without deference to the "Most campaigns already treat them in this manner..." clause? Because, to me, that second one is what makes it less than useful, as it seems to carry with it an implication that "always" means "for very specific purposes only."


I don't quite understand it myself, but for Iron Chef purposes, I don't like to assume that the DM has already decided that magic/psionic transparency is in place. Magic Mantle allows it to happen even if the DM decides against transparency, so I know the build will still be useful in those campaigns. After that, the problem is the rules don't really explain how exactly they are "identical". Can I apply Sudden Extend when I manifest a power? Does that make Sudden Extend a metapsionic feat? If it does, do I have to expend my psionic focus to use it? And so forth. The rules on XPH p. 55 cover "What happens when I cast dispel magic on a psionic power?", but really don't go much further than that.

My initial idea didn't involve Ardent or psionics, but the LA involved just didn't leave enough room to get all the feats into it. I figured I'd be taking an elegance hit to begin with, and adding flaws on top of that... well, I'll save that idea for another ingredient.



Yep, I can see that one being divisive. My reading, FWIW, of "you can voluntarily take 2 points of Constitution damage to fully replenish your holy fury points" is best parsed as this:
IF (you choose to take 2 points of CON damage) THEN (fully replenish your holy fury points). To me, given that as a Deathless you can't take CON damage, you never satisfy the IF condition. I understand the argument "I volunteer to take it but it's not my fault that it doesn't hurt me," but I think that one veers into the territory of overcomplicating what seems to be a pretty simple RAW statement. So I won't say monkeysnot, but I'll at least say orangutanphlegm.


Yeah, I think "voluntarily" is where it gets into trouble, as that implies you're making a sacrifice of some sort, rather than something like "IF (use this ability) THEN (take 2 Con damage)".

Would you feel the same about Strongheart Vest? Invest 1 point of essentia, and the Con damage is reduced to zero. You're still taking Con damage voluntarily, and you're not immune to all Con damage. So... Azurin Hellreavers = awesome?

[WhamBamSam]

The fluff's nice, and the Iajutsu Focus/Whirling Blade would have been a fun way to focus on the buffed CHA. It's a shame you didn't get it worked out.I think the stub would probably have ended up something like Half-Elf Paragon 3/Marshal 3/Sha'ir 4/Risen Martyr 10. I was dithering on whether to go VoP (it's not terrible for iaijutsu builds, as it doesn't actually limit the number of simple weapons you can carry around, and confers enhancement bonuses to all of them, meaning you can just carry around a bunch of daggers and not have to worry about resheathing) or just go for the old standby Gnome Quickrazor. Motivate Dexterity on initiative checks, some feint optimization with the Group Fake-Out, and a few low level spells (Nerveskitter, Grease, Glitterdust, Distract Assailant, Insightful Feint) should keep enemies flat-footed reliably through a few rounds of combat. Bluff isn't a class skill for Risen Martyr, unfortunately, and I don't think it's RAW-legal to take Aereni Focus twice like you can for Skill Focus, even if you have an extra feat with which to do so at first level, but I could probably stomach taking the ranks cross-class.

I had initially considered Forestlord Half-Elf Paragon 3/Dragonblood Sorcerer 4/Marshal 1/Casting PrC 2 with levels jumbled around to delay Dragonblood Sorcerer 4 to my 6th level of Sorc casting, for a few SLA Whirling Blade uses/day (possibly with Mortalbane) as well as getting it back as a spell known, but constantly glowing kinda makes you suck at hiding, so all that chicanery to get Hide and Move Silently goes wasted (and Draconic Heritage doesn't even make Move Silently a class skill for non-Sorc levels, so feh).


Also would have been a fun one, though here I think you'd be more stymied by the "are you just immune to Spelldance as a whole?" question. Also, help me understand the whole "Magic Mantle is awesome" thing; I've heard it before, but I'm just not seeing it. Is it based on the "you always treat magic and psionics as identical" clause without deference to the "Most campaigns already treat them in this manner..." clause? Because, to me, that second one is what makes it less than useful, as it seems to carry with it an implication that "always" means "for very specific purposes only."
I don't quite understand it myself, but for Iron Chef purposes, I don't like to assume that the DM has already decided that magic/psionic transparency is in place. Magic Mantle allows it to happen even if the DM decides against transparency, so I know the build will still be useful in those campaigns. After that, the problem is the rules don't really explain how exactly they are "identical". Can I apply Sudden Extend when I manifest a power? Does that make Sudden Extend a metapsionic feat? If it does, do I have to expend my psionic focus to use it? And so forth. The rules on XPH p. 55 cover "What happens when I cast dispel magic on a psionic power?", but really don't go much further than that.My interpretation of the latter statement is that the RAI of the Magic Mantle was probably to reassert the standard transparency rules in games where they aren't in effect, but that's not really how it can be said to work by RAW if we operate from the premise that "identical" means "identical."

My reading, for whatever it's worth, is that things like feat names and categories aren't impacted, but any references to spellcasting, manifesting, casting/manifesting classes, caster/manifester levels, or the like are. So for instance, the Sudden Extend example would work on Magic Mantle manifesting, but it would still be a metamagic feat, not a metapsionic feat for purposes of qualification or whatever. I'd also say that the magic mantle only sort of works for progressing manifesting with caster PrCs, because PP and spell slots aren't directly analagous, so you can progress ML and powers known, but not PP.

This would also validate the Ardent Practiced Manifester/Practiced Spellcaster double dip, but that's really not particularly borked compared to just spending those levels on manifesting progression in the first place. Whatever you're spending the levels on instead is probably worse than having more powers known, PP, and the like, it just opens up customization a bit.

[Troacctid]

Magic Mantle refers you directly to the transparency rules, so I think it's pretty evident that it doesn't do much in a campaign that doesn't use the "Psionics is different" variant rule. I mean, if you are using that variant rule, it's basically essential in order for powers like Detect Psionics and Dispel Psionics to be worth anything, but otherwise, you're just getting UMD as a class skill.

There's absolutely no basis in RAW for having it treat caster level and manifester level/power points and spell slots/Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device/etc. identically. Magic and psionics don't work that way.

[Sian]

Guardian Mantle & Devoted Defender are underrated as ways of drawing aggro in 3.5 for sure. Like you said, offensively you wouldn't be setting any records, but I like the dedication to a theme of "minimize incoming damage as much as possible."

Not sure I'd call Devoted Defender underrated as much as I would call it somewhat obscure and forgotten, given that its a 3e prestige class that doesn't have a direct upgrade (Maquar Crusader from Shining South is close thru), and offensively I'd probably set the record in 'least competent'

[OMG PONIES]

Yeah, I think "voluntarily" is where it gets into trouble, as that implies you're making a sacrifice of some sort, rather than something like "IF (use this ability) THEN (take 2 Con damage)".

Would you feel the same about Strongheart Vest? Invest 1 point of essentia, and the Con damage is reduced to zero. You're still taking Con damage voluntarily, and you're not immune to all Con damage. So... Azurin Hellreavers = awesome?

Yes, Azurin hellreavers could be awesome. This is because, the way the soulmeld is written, you are still taking the ability damage...even if you're taking zero points of it.



Any time you would take ability damage, such as Constitution damage or Strength damage, the amount of the damage is reduced by 1 point, to a minimum of 0.

[Sian]

another build idea that i laughed a bit at, but never even got as far as to make a stub would have been a Hellbred Martyred Champion of Ilmater (letting Nimbus of Light pull double duty), with a fluff piece hailing him as the thrice-martyred (into Hellbred, into Martyred champion, and into Risen Martyr). But the lack of any synergy between Martyred Champion of Ilmater and anything else stopped me from getting further than laughing at the idea

[OMG PONIES]

another build idea that i laughed a bit at, but never even got as far as to make a stub would have been a Hellbred Martyred Champion of Ilmater (letting Nimbus of Light pull double duty), with a fluff piece hailing him as the thrice-martyred (into Hellbred, into Martyred champion, and into Risen Martyr). But the lack of any synergy between Martyred Champion of Ilmater and anything else stopped me from getting further than laughing at the idea

This is Iron Chef; laughing at a build has won more than one medal. And for an ingredient like this, I would have loved a gag entry with a "Yo dawg, I heard you liked martyrdom..." Xzibit meme.

[Sian]

This is Iron Chef; laughing at a build has won more than one medal. And for an ingredient like this, I would have loved a gag entry with a "Yo dawg, I heard you liked martyrdom..." Xzibit meme.

Main issue is that my skill in "Fluff Writing" is to low to pull it off well enough

[Troacctid]

Yes, Azurin hellreavers could be awesome. This is because, the way the soulmeld is written, you are still taking the ability damage...even if you're taking zero points of it.
Again, you already have a ton of points and they refresh every encounter. It's really not that likely to matter.

[Macabaret]

This is Iron Chef; laughing at a build has won more than one medal. And for an ingredient like this, I would have loved a gag entry with a "Yo dawg, I heard you liked martyrdom..." Xzibit meme.

Main issue is that my skill in "Fluff Writing" is to low to pull it off well enough

For these competitions, I don't think you really need to do much more fluff writing for character background than what you just did in your post. 'Hailed as the thrice-martyred' is enough to get the joke. And, I can just hear the music now: Martyr dom-dom-dom!!


My unfinished second build was going to be a VOP Dragonborn Warforged Incarnate 5/Totemist 6/Risen Martyr 9. (Or maybe just Totemist 11/RM9?) You change the Construct type to Deathless, but keep the Living Construct subtype, which should let you keep your CON score. Right?
I figured there would be fluff to be explored about a Warforged being found by fey creatures and teaching him that he could tap into the soulstuff of magical beasts instead of just trying to emulate his humanoid creators. In a world where the war is over and the Warforged have been relegated to a life of slavery in menial tasks at forges and shipping yards, this soulmelder would strive to bring about an end to that slavery.
I just never got around to...er...fleshing it out.

[Sian]

For these competitions, I don't think you really need to do much more fluff writing for character background than what you just did in your post. 'Hailed as the thrice-martyred' is enough to get the joke. And, I can just hear the music now: Martyr dom-dom-dom!!

Well... given that I'm unaware of what the joke appears to be other than the inherent hilariousness of getting multiple martyrdoms then...

[Darrin]

My unfinished second build was going to be a VOP Dragonborn Warforged Incarnate 5/Totemist 6/Risen Martyr 9. (Or maybe just Totemist 11/RM9?) You change the Construct type to Deathless, but keep the Living Construct subtype, which should let you keep your CON score. Right?


I looked at that when I was considering a Warforged Hellreaver... I figured I could get around that whole "Immune to Con" thing with a Strongheart Vest and say "See, I have a Con, and I do take Con damage, but it gets reduced to zero". But after googling a bit, the consensus seemed to be that the last template added takes precedence, so you lose your Con score with Deathless even if a previous template says you get a Con score. It looked like a toss-up for the judges... too iffy to base a build on that. However, it was while I was looking up ways to get a Con score on a Deathless that I ran into Idea #4.

Ok, so... no judges yet. Anyone at least considering it?

[OMG PONIES]

My unfinished second build was going to be a VOP Dragonborn Warforged Incarnate 5/Totemist 6/Risen Martyr 9. (Or maybe just Totemist 11/RM9?) You change the Construct type to Deathless, but keep the Living Construct subtype, which should let you keep your CON score. Right?
I figured there would be fluff to be explored about a Warforged being found by fey creatures and teaching him that he could tap into the soulstuff of magical beasts instead of just trying to emulate his humanoid creators. In a world where the war is over and the Warforged have been relegated to a life of slavery in menial tasks at forges and shipping yards, this soulmelder would strive to bring about an end to that slavery.
I just never got around to...er...fleshing it out.
Interesting concept, though as Darrin pointed out the whole warforged Deathless thing could get a little squirrelly.


Well... given that I'm unaware of what the joke appears to be other than the inherent hilariousness of getting multiple martyrdoms then...
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/20/2011971352a6bd54a1739fed541ae8ec783920c81ae0b40303 a9415c235991ad.jpg


Ok, so... no judges yet. Anyone at least considering it?
Bruh. I'm judging :smallbiggrin:.

[The Viscount]

Thank you for once more stepping up to judge, Ponies! May your lustrous mane never lose its shine.

[Inevitability]

Now that we have a judge, perhaps we should start looking for the next special ingredient?

I recommend Yatrinnsee Yathirnshee Yattirsheen Yathrinshee. It's difficult to optimize and relatively obscure, but has quite a few interesting class features.

[OMG PONIES]

Thank you for once more stepping up to judge, Ponies! May your lustrous mane never lose its shine.

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our Iron dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of scores blow in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
Let pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a galled rock
O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height. On, on, you noblest Entrants.
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
Fathers that, like so many Akal Saris,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to build. And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in Playgrounds, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'Gold from Helio!' Optimize at large!
with apologies (http://shakespeare.mit.edu/henryv/henryv.3.1.html)


Now that we have a judge, perhaps we should start looking for the next special ingredient?

I recommend Yatrinnsee Yathirnshee Yattirsheen Yathrinshee. It's difficult to optimize and relatively obscure, but has quite a few interesting class features.
Or maybe those brave enough to judge get to select the fresh new hell visited upon us? :smallamused: Don't know if it would encourage those less masochistic than myself to join me in the fray...

[OMG PONIES]

Sorry for the double post, just didn't want to be sneaky about posting my results and have folks miss it.

My Criteria
All builds will start with a base score of 12, representing 3 points in each category. Those category scores will change based on my answers to a series of questions, presented below. An answer of "Yes" will earn a +0.5 boost to that category, an answer of "No" will earn a -0.5 penalty to that category, while an ambivalent "Yes and no" will not change the score of that category at all. Thus, it is possible for a build to score anywhere between 1 and 5 points in each category. The questions are as follow:

Originality
Does the build present a compelling backstory or concept?
Does the build enter the Secret Ingredient through a method unique from the sample character in the source as well as other entries in this round?
Does the build make use of any interesting race, class, feats, or mechanical tricks that the judge hasn't seen in common use before?
Does the build avoid "known cheese" and overused optimization suggestions?

Power
Does the build utilize established power breakpoints and feat taxes for all classes and prestige classes taken?
Does the build function at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on "nova" powers?
Does the build thrive without requiring specific magic items, templates, or other "add-ons" to qualify for anything?
Does the build contribute significantly in terms of offense, defense, and utility?

Elegance
Does the build qualify for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient?
Does the build qualify for all feats taken?
Does the build avoid any rules errors, questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition?
Does the build avoid multi-class penalties and excessive dipping (defined as taking 2 or fewer levels in 2 or more base/prestige classes)?

Use of the Secret Ingredient
Does the build qualify for the Secret Ingredient and make special use of entry requirements?
Does the build complete the Secret Ingredient or present a compelling reason why not doing so is actually a better use of the Secret Ingredient?
Does the build pair mechanical abilities of the Secret Ingredient with the rest of the build in unique ways (e.g. do something not every other entry can do)?
Does the build complement the concept of its chassis through use of the Secret Ingredient (i.e. does the entry feel like a Thief of Life)?

My Scores
The Care Bear: 12.5 (3.125 average)Originality: 1.5 I liked the humor that you brought to this snapshot, but it didn't really provide me the depth of insight into the character that I was hoping for. Instead, it covered how he became a risen martyr as well as adding an interesting ending (0). While hengeyoaki & beguiler were unique this round, another chef had the same idea on Emissary of Barachiel and marshal was a frequent flyer. Also, for a Care Bear, may I suggest Sentinel of Bharrai? (-0.5). No race, class, feats, or tricks were new for me (-0.5). Hengeyokai and Vow of Peace are both well-treaded charop territory (-0.5).Power: 3 While more beguiler would have netted you better spells (and more of them), you used the appropriate smatterings of marshal & emissary of Barachiel (0). While your spells are very limited, emissary of Barachiel adds some more pep back in that step (though not enough for a bonus). (0). The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5). Offensively, you're not much in a fight. When it comes to defense, you don't have many unique class features to shore up defenses aside from the Secret Ingredient. This build is a utility beast, though, between skills and spells (-0.5).Elegance: 4 The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5). The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5). I tend to glance sideways at Vow of Peace characters in general due to the rules headaches that can arise, but then sometimes there are quotes like this: "You can target celestial brilliance on an object, so if you put it on your walking stick or what have you, then encounter an outsider by chance and it hurts him, that’s unintentional so you can get it back with atonement." SMH (-0.5). The build avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping (0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by maxing the skill used for entry and using entry requirements for Emissary of Barachiel (0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). While I like your coupling of the Deathless type with Words of Creation to avoid the damage, your unstated synergy between marshal & the CHA boost, as well as your combination of holy purpose with Emissary of Barachiel, I wish the other class features had received similar treatment. While others are mentioned, they did not receive similar unique synergy. Also, where is Archon's Trumpet found? The only place I could find it was Pathfinder; what am I missing? (-0.5). A Care Bear killed for caring too much could only come back as one thing--a Risen Martyr. Though I still wish you had wedged in some Sentinel of Bharrai (0.5).
Aves Maria: 9 (2.25 average)Originality: 3 While the glimmer of "going undercover to infiltrate necromancers" was cool, I would have liked to see some attention provided to it. As presented, I didn't get much of a picture for who your character is (-0.5). Human's neither earning or losing you points here, but the rest of your build went in a very unexpected direction between the use of Dread Necromancer (though see Elegance below) and the inclusion of Exalted Arcanist (0.5). I've got to hand it to you, your cheese fondue is a thing a beauty--a concerted effort to squeeze higher-level spells out of Risen Martyr as well as redeeming symbionts was not something I expected in the least (0.5). I appreciate the honesty, but you know we're delving right into known cheese to try to create a new & better cheese (-0.5).Power: 2.5 Dread necro is bailed out of after getting the good front-loaded bits, you squeeze everything you can out of human paragon, and then you're in exalted arcanist because you've got your eyes on the prize (0.5). Even with your Versatile Spellcaster shenanigans, you quickly become outpaced at higher levels by your lack of appropriate spells per day (-0.5). We rely on a custom rod of sudden maximize to make the cheese fondue melt here and qualify for Node Store on some of those higher-level spells (-0.5). You get some tremendous utility from UMD along with Dread Necro spell shenanigans and a heaping spoonful of sanctified spells. If you find your army of redeemed symbionts and familiar celestial channeling trick works, that allows you to crack into the action economy...but once you're there, what will you do? You've invested so many resources into channeling that you don't have many spells per day to use once channeled or anything impressive (0).Elegance: 1 Primary Contact gives you an extra rank (even above the max) at the level you take it, but it does not allow you to have max+1 ranks in that skill at every level. As such, you do not qualify for Exalted Arcanist (-0.5). The build qualifies for all feats taken, assuming the cheeses listed are allowed by a DM to qualify for Node Store (0.5). You know why. I love the heck out of it, but you know why. Also, some might tell you that this little clause stops your node trick: "Each such slot can be used only to cast its designated spell; it cannot be used for any other spell (including the other spell designated with this feat)." Either way, we've got some cross-setting material and some dubious alignment changes. Also, -1 for each of the flaws (-2.5). The build avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping (0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 2.5 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). Given your beautiful write-up of your cheese fondue, I wish you had devoted similar energies to trying to synergize anything Risen Martyr has to offer aside from becoming a celestial (-0.5). Even with the glimmer you gave of the undercover necromancer, I still don't buy why that character would take a detour into Risen Martyr (-0.5).
D: 15.5 (3.875 average)Originality: 2.5 While I don't think I'd catch the reference without help, you did a great job painting the picture of a cowboy with a divine purpose (0.5). Aside from the smattering of rogue tossed in that was used by another competitor, everything else you chose here was unique. (0). No race, class, feats, or tricks were new for me (-0.5). Shock Trooper & Divine Might combine to bring some serious bonus damage, but they're standard handbook fare (-0.5).Power: 4.5 Rogue breakpoint is followed, but Ranger 2 would have netted you a fighting style and more Hellreaver means more uses for your fury points…why not take more of those? (0). The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5). The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power. While we've got a +2 LA template, it's mainly for flavor and functions well if not allowed (0.5). Offensively, you bring some hefty bonus damage to the table. Defensively, you've focused on making it hard for your quarry to hurt you but that also pays off in the DR from your template and your spell reflection ACF to name a few. In terms of utility, you're an undead-fighting machine who can find & disable traps as well. (0.5).Elegance: 4.5 The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5). The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5). The build avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition (0.5). While multiclass penalties are avoided, we have 4 dips here (0).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4 The build fails to qualify for the Secret Ingredient as I do not see any way the character learns to speak Celestial (-0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). Wow. Now THIS is how you make use of class features. To sum up, we snag Deathless to protect against your favored enemies' main attacks and avoid the nagging Blood Dependency of being half-vampire. The CHA boost gives you more turn undead, which means more uses of divine feats (not to mention more Holy Fury and Divine Might). Your deflection bonus helps to shore up the AC penalties of using Shock Trooper, you find uses for a lot of your SLAs (especially against favored enemies), and you pair shield other with energy immunities (even though the others can do that, you're the first to point it out)? That's enough for me to overlook that you essentially shrugged your shoulders at Perfection and Final Ascension! (0.5). I feel like I'd get this even more if I had read any D novels, but by gum--the whole "badass killing vampires and glowing" thing just feels like he's been killed and risen as a martyr on the path of good and blah blah blah. Also, the whole "does killing vampires mean killing myself?" seems like an interesting entrance into Risen Martyr.. (0.5).
Voci Causam: 14.5 (3.625 average)Originality: 3 I dig the idea of a true People's Champ, trying little more than bringing everyone together. Usually Changeling Rogue party faces have ulterior motives but this one felt like a pure hero (0.5). While changeling was an unexpected direction, you're one of two Emissaries of Barachiel this round. That, coupled with the splashes in rogue and marshal, make this feel like a repeat and overshadow the use of cleric & savant for me (-0.5). Someone actually managed to make competent use of Master Linguist? Not that it's bad…just that I wouldn't have thought of it for a moment. Good on you! (0.5). You pulled out interesting things from unexpected sources, but a few of them (marshal, changeling rogue, cloistered cleric) are standard handbook fare (-0.5).Power: 3.5 Proper breakpoints are utilized for each and every one of your classes (0.5). The Emissary of Barachiel spells aren't the star of the show, but you've only got minimal uses of them. Most glaring is Widen Supernatural Ability--that late in the game, it seemed like a waste as a 1/day feat. Your skills are on all day, but these few limited resources prevented me from giving a full bonus here (0). While I love the all-powerful yarmulke and appreciate the use of Ancestral Relic to make its creation more user-friendly…what happens if it gets stolen, etc? There goes a good +16 or more from your Diplomacy. That said, it's not required so full points (0.5). You and I both know, you are built to be a social utility machine. I don't see this build lasting long in a fight or winning too many fights of his own, but if you play your cards right you can prevent a ton of fights from ever happening. If you can't (or if you find yourself up against non-intelligent creatures or those immune to mind-affecting and/or language-dependent effects), I would have liked to see a Plan B, though.. (-0.5).Elegance: 4 The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5). The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5). You've listed the +2 insight bonus from Amulet of Wordtwisting (though it's listed as morale, which I think you meant to list as coming from admiral's bicorne) as well as a +4 insight bonus from Amulet of Wordtwisting (but that's only if you're an orc...or a changeling with Racial Emulation, which you didn't snag). Aside from this, you've done well to avoid questionable rules interpretations but when you're presenting something so custom, please be sure to dot the Is and cross the Ts. Some DMs grimace at custom items in the first place. Speaking of...luckily, I think you can make a case that these all meet the hat affinity for interaction listed on DMG 288 so there's no extra cost for the slot change. Given the rules for combining magic items as well as adding common effects (starting on MiC 233), the total cost of your powered-up yarmulke with Amulet of Word Twisting, Medal of Gallantry, Veil of Allure, Circlet of Persuasion, Admiral's Bicorne, and +6 enhancement to CHA comes to 136,181.25 gp and 136 days of downtime. As presented, you can only have something this expensive at levels 17 & beyond per the max value table within Ancestral Relic. (0). While multiclass penalties are avoided, we have 4 dips here (0).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by maxing Diplomacy and using entry requirements for Emissary of Barachiel (0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). Your deathless type pairs nicely with Emissary of Barachiel, and your CHA boost is essentially doubled by that marshal dip. You've got a great holy purpose…but then the class features take a backseat to standard Diplomancy, which is a shame since more than half of the class features don't receive any particular attention (-0.5). I get why we had two Emissaries of Barachiel--the class was basically written for Risen Martyrs, and it ties in nicely with your purpose of banding together the humanoids of the world (0.5).
Ahmtel: 14 14.5 (3.5 3.625 average)Originality: 3 While I love the anagram, the Shakespeare references and structure, and how you managed to weave them into a narrative of an actual risen martyr, I'm still left wondering who this noble prince is and why he does what he does (0). Aside from those few levels of marshal, everything else was unique. Because it was such a frequent flyer in this round, I can't award a bonus here due to marshal, but it's not a penalty either (0). Insightful Strike isn't exactly new, but I've never seen anyone attempt to switch it to a CHA-based skill and use various CHA boosters to pump it up so they could deliver the damage through a poison ring. Nice! (0.5). Powerful though they are, Psicrystal Containment/Psionic Meditation/Psychic Renewal are well known and loved in optimization discussions (-0.5).Power: 4 While I'd normally call for more warblade to snag higher-level maneuvers, you manage to build nicely toward exactly what you wanted. Using Uncanny Trickster & Martial Study to pick up Greater Insightful strike was a nice way to get out of warblade while still picking up some extra mileage. However, I'm not sure that marshal serves for much aside from a one-level dip. Sure, I understand your initiative boosting here, but that doesn't really seem like a reason to sink 2 more levels into marshal when you could have used them for more maneuvers or psionics. Speaking of, psion felt a little isolated but you were never here for the powers anyway. Overall, everything had intention so there's no penalty, but we were in marshal a little too long for my taste (0). The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers. That's the nice thing about martial initiators, and using kalashtar was a smart way to bolster your manifester level while also picking up a steady supply of PP (0.5). While you mention a significant number of items to reach max power (Concentration boosters and dorjes alike), you don't need them to function at the level presented. While they are merely icing on the cake, you've got a little too much icing here. The real kicker is that, with your low BAB, you seem reliant upon the poison ring to land your Greater Insightful Strikes regularly. Even still, none of the items are needed to qualify for anything so full points (0.5). Offensively, I appreciate what you've done to boost your Concentration checks offensively as well as finding a way to reliably deliver the pain as a touch attack. Defensively, though, there's not much in play that's unique to Ahmtel. When it comes to utility, your social skills & skill tricks combine nicely along with your ability to use magic devices (0).Elegance: 4 The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5). You list a WIS of 8 which would mean you don't qualify for Psionic Meditation. However, that seems like a copy paste error since you start with a WIS of 12 and up it to the required 13 via Middle-Aged stat adjustments. So it seems like you do qualify. I'm a stickler for judging as presented, but not enough of a stickler to give you a full-on penalty for what seems like an obvious typo...but enough of a stickler not to give you full points here either (0). Again, my sticklerhood comes out--you didn't include Eberron Campaign Setting or Dragon Compendium in your list of sources. Without them, it could be hard for folks to find Kalashtar and their mindlink psi-like ability, which is what I believe you're using to meet the manifester level requirement to take Psicrystal Containment. Also, it would be hard to find your "1 hp damage poison ring as a touch attack" weapon. Also, on said weapon please keep in mind that it takes a standard action to lock the needle in place, something not mentioned in your write-up on action economy (0). The build avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping (0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3 3.5 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by selecting a power to avoid the drawback of Nimbus of Light as well as using required exalted feat to snag Nymph's Kiss, which is central to suggested tactics (0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). While I really like the bonuses provided to your Concentration checks from going deathless, the CHA increase, and your holy purpose, nothing else even received a passing mention you also give passing mention to using your outsider type to take advantage of various transmutation spells as well as coupling psicrystal/share pain with Shield Other. Still...let's face it; Ahmtel was built to showcase your Greater Insightful Strike tricks, not to showcase Risen Martyr (-0.5) (0). As above, while the style of your entry was great I don't really understand what makes Ahmtel a martyr. Sure, he's decapitated by a warforged and comes back to make some great decapitation puns ("My eyes mere feet from where his body fell" was a particular favorite, but why Risen Martyr? What is Ahmtel's Holy purpose--killing the Lord? (-0.5).

Overall, this was a tight batch with some interesting concepts and mechanical tricks. Congrats to all chefs!

[MisterKaws]

Couldn't Aves Maria's entire shtick be replaced by Arcane Preparation to just slap the "Preparing-only" rule in the face?

[Troacctid]

Couldn't Aves Maria's entire shtick be replaced by Arcane Preparation to just slap the "Preparing-only" rule in the face?
No, because it still relies on an illegal use of Versatile Spellcaster. It doesn't work as presented and it wouldn't work with Arcane Preparation.

I assume she took two flaws because she knew it didn't work and figured her Elegance was already in the tank, so it couldn't hurt any more.

[Darrin]

No, because it still relies on an illegal use of Versatile Spellcaster. It doesn't work as presented and it wouldn't work with Arcane Preparation.


I don't think that's what MisterKaws meant. Spell slot shenanigans aside, I had the same thought. If you wanted Sanctified spells on a spontaneous chassis, why not take one feat instead of jumping through all those hoops to get into Exalted Arcanist? My next thought was, the RAW on that might be iffy with the judges, as the text on BoED p. 85 "whitelists" who can prepare Sanctified spells to certain classes, rather than make a blanket statement that "all spellcasters who can prepare spells can prepare Sanctified spells".

[OMG PONIES]

I assume she took two flaws because she knew it didn't work and figured her Elegance was already in the tank, so it couldn't hurt any more.
That's a smart move--if you know Elegance is squirrelly, assume worst-case scenario and build toward everything else. I thought it was really ambitious and loved that build way more than what came out in the scores; I just wanted to share that to let these chefs know I appreciate the hard work that goes into each entry and a low score from me /= lack of appreciation for your perspective.


Couldn't Aves Maria's entire shtick be replaced by Arcane Preparation to just slap the "Preparing-only" rule in the face?

No, because it still relies on an illegal use of Versatile Spellcaster. It doesn't work as presented and it wouldn't work with Arcane Preparation.

I don't think that's what MisterKaws meant. Spell slot shenanigans aside, I had the same thought. If you wanted Sanctified spells on a spontaneous chassis, why not take one feat instead of jumping through all those hoops to get into Exalted Arcanist? My next thought was, the RAW on that might be iffy with the judges, as the text on BoED p. 85 "whitelists" who can prepare Sanctified spells to certain classes, rather than make a blanket statement that "all spellcasters who can prepare spells can prepare Sanctified spells".
Versatile Spellcaster debate aside (because it is, indeed, a debate), I think Darrin's got one concern on the nose. However, I don't read what I think he's quoting quite the same way...plus the text I think is in question actually appears on page 84, right? :smallconfused: [/ruleslawyer]


Sanctified spells are specific to no character class. They are neither inherently arcane nor divine spells. A divine caster casting a sanctified spell casts it as a divine spell, while an arcane caster casts it as an arcane spell. While wizards, druids, rangers, and paladins can all prepare sanctified spells, clerics have a special advantage: they can spontaneously cast any sanctified spell, just as they can spontaneously cast cure wounds spells.
SPELL LISTS
This section begins with a list of sanctified spells, which are available to any class that prepares spells rather than casting them spontaneously. Following the sanctified spells are lists of new spells for the bard, cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, sorcerer, and wizard classes.
Emphases mine. So while it mentions a list of classes just to stand against the special rules for clerics (which I never knew and are pretty awesome!), I think it clearly states three things:

Sanctified spells are available to any class who prepares spells.
Clerics are funky because they can either prepare or spontaneously cast sanctified spells.
After the sanctified spells, there's a separate whitelist of class-specific spells.
Is that right? Am I reading it wrong? Why haven't I played more clerics using spontaneous sanctified spells?!

Plus, the ability to have all sanctified spells known and at the ready is way more useful from a sheer power perspective than having a few good sanctified spells prepared and pre-selected. Plus plus, I still award massive cred for the idea of a Dread Necromancer who's so good she starts casting sanctified spells and converting evil undead to her cause. Plus plus plus: my honorable mention vote goes to Aves Maria!

[Venger]

my vote for HM goes to the care bear

https://markb4.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/carebearsmoviemrcherrywood.png

[Darrin]

So... No disputes? (I didn't have any.) Are we done with Risen Martyr?

Next ingredient... I'm hoping Helio put my last suggestion on her list. If not... I think we could get a pretty decent turnout for Arcane Archer. Last two have been kinda low turnout, although I'm not sure if that was due to the ingredients or just waning interest in 3.5.

But if Ponies gets to pick... Yathrinshee... I don't even know what that is. [Looking.] Huh. Yeah, that's definitely a "I Don't Even..." ingredient.

I am seconding the Honorable Mention for Aves Maria. The Care Bear really came out of left field and made me laugh, but I was really impressed with the audacity of the Node Store shenanigans. That was swinging for the fences, a retaining wall, two parking lots, and a swimming pool.

[Thurbane]

I would also like to give me honorable mention to Aves Maria.

[arclance]

Next ingredient... I'm hoping Helio put my last suggestion on her list. If not... I think we could get a pretty decent turnout for Arcane Archer. Last two have been kinda low turnout, although I'm not sure if that was due to the ingredients or just waning interest in 3.5.
I think it was a combination of it being finals and vacation season along with the "what can I actually do / optimize with this in an original way" factor of the the last two ingredients.

[MisterKaws]

I think we should do something with a bit more of a comedy potential, just to try and get people inspired to build something. I'm willing to try and build something, but these last ingredients just didn't inspire me at all, and the only one that did - Legacy Warrior - came at a bad time, finals and all that. I feel kinda bad for my Soulbow build that never got to be completed because of that.

Or maybe try and... I'm gonna regret suggesting this... Make it Ur-Priest, and see the chaos that ensues from it.

So let's edit this again: My vote would personally be for the Apostle of Peace, just because it would be damn funny trying to see how would people optimize that thing. It's not as passive as Risen Martyr, and has a lot of potential for diplomancy, so I could see it working. Then again, it'd be two Exalted classes in a row.

[Sian]

... yeah, the primary reason i haven't entered the this or the previous one was because i had to much of an issue to actually figure out some interesting ways to showcase the SI's, in Risen Martyrs case, i found one, but by then it was to close to (the already extended) submission time.

Something slightly less left-field, and easier to showcase please?

[Darrin]

Just in case Helio needs a table...

Scores After One Judge
EntryPlaceOMG Ponies
D (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864668&postcount=89)Gold15.5
Voci Causam (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864702&postcount=90)Silver14.5
Ahmtel (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864711&postcount=91)Silver14.5
The Care Bear (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864626&postcount=87)Fourth12.5
Aves Maria (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864660&postcount=88)Fifth9

[Amphetryon]

I think we should do something with a bit more of a comedy potential, just to try and get people inspired to build something. I'm willing to try and build something, but these last ingredients just didn't inspire me at all, and the only one that did - Legacy Warrior - came at a bad time, finals and all that. I feel kinda bad for my Soulbow build that never got to be completed because of that.

Or maybe try and... I'm gonna regret suggesting this... Make it Ur-Priest, and see the chaos that ensues from it.

So let's edit this again: My vote would personally be for the Apostle of Peace, just because it would be damn funny trying to see how would people optimize that thing. It's not as passive as Risen Martyr, and has a lot of potential for diplomancy, so I could see it working. Then again, it'd be two Exalted classes in a row.

Because diplomancy can be contentious as a focal point in IC, and because we just had an Exalted PrC, I'd sort of like to see something like Mortal Hunter, from BoVD.

[The Viscount]

I'm rather wary of Apostle of Peace because the class itself gives 9th level spells, and good ones at that. It would make for some very difficult comparisons, at least in power, since everyone is in the T2 range, and effectiveness becomes similarly difficult when everyone has to work with Vow of Peace.

As for next SI, I feel like a break from magic, perhaps with the oft denied Eye of Gruumsh.

[Heliomance]

Only two disputes this time around.


Thanks so much for judging Ponies! There are just a few things I wanted to point out/respond to.


While I'd normally call for more warblade to snag higher-level maneuvers, you manage to build nicely toward exactly what you wanted. Using Uncanny Trickster & Martial Study to pick up Greater Insightful strike was a nice way to get out of warblade while still picking up some extra mileage. However, I'm not sure that marshal serves for much aside from a one-level dip. Sure, I understand your initiative boosting here, but that doesn't really seem like a reason to sink 2 more levels into marshal when you could have used them for more maneuvers or psionics. Speaking of, psion felt a little isolated but you were never here for the powers anyway. Overall, everything had intention so there's no penalty, but we were in marshal a little too long for my taste (0).Multiclass penalties are a pain, and amount to a large part of the reason why the build wasn't something like Marshal 1/Psion 1/Warblade 8/Risen Martyr 10. That said, Motivate Dexterity is pretty much always a significant boost to the whole party as well as a potential means to trivialize the DC15 Dex check to flip the poison ring open or closed one-handed, and Motivate Attack ends up semi-consequential with his flagging BAB.


You list a WIS of 8 which would mean you don't qualify for Psionic Meditation. However, that seems like a copy paste error since you start with a WIS of 12 and up it to the required 13 via Middle-Aged stat adjustments. So it seems like you do qualify. I'm a stickler for judging as presented, but not enough of a stickler to give you a full-on penalty for what seems like an obvious typo...but enough of a stickler not to give you full points here either (0). Again, my sticklerhood comes out--you didn't include Eberron Campaign Setting or Dragon Compendium in your list of sources. Without them, it could be hard for folks to find Kalashtar and their mindlink psi-like ability, which is what I believe you're using to meet the manifester level requirement to take Psicrystal Containment. Also, it would be hard to find your "1 hp damage poison ring as a touch attack" weapon. Also, on said weapon please keep in mind that it takes a standard action to lock the needle in place, something not mentioned in your write-up on action economy (0).Yeah, that's a copy/paste error. I had originally planned on dumping Wis, then changed it when I double checked that I qualified for everything. But then I didn't triple check to make sure that I'd changed all instances of the number, or that I'd cited everything. I missed the source for Skilled City-Dweller as well. Totally my bad.

Ahmtel will usually just leave the ring in its upright locked position when out adventuring. If he needs to conceal it for whatever reason, then he does have Motivate Dexterity to trivialize the Dex check to flip it open inconspicuously with one hand before combat starts. Worst case scenario, he also has a psicrystal on his person, which doesn't usually have much better to do with its action than flip the ring open.


The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by selecting a power to avoid the drawback of Nimbus of Light as well as using required exalted feat to snag Nymph's Kiss, which is central to suggested tactics (0.5). While I really like the bonuses provided to your Concentration checks from going deathless, the CHA increase, and your holy p*urpose, nothing else even received a passing mention. Let's face it; Ahmtel was built to showcase your Greater Insightful Strike tricks, not to showcase Risen Martyr (-0.5).Control Light is actually there to suppress the light from Protective Aura. Nimbus of Light can already be turned on and off as a free action. Holy Purpose also shores up Ahmtel's attack bonus, which pretty much solves the problem of Risen Martyr's poor BAB, as he only needs the boost to hit, not being reliant on Power Attack or iterative attacks. I do also call out the ability to use specific Dorjes, Wands, and Scrolls to create some synergy with Shield Other (Share Pain with his Psicrystal to better soak up the damage) and Perfection (form changing spells/powers to make use of Outsider forms*). But yes, Risen Martyr is largely just a vehicle for pumping up Insightful Strike.

*With some chicanery (a host feat for ML, Owl's Wisdom to temporarily meet the Wis requirement, then a Psychic Reformation) you could even get a Feat Leech-able Metamorphic Transfer onto your Psicrystal for even more fun with shapeshifting.


As above, while the style of your entry was great I don't really understand what makes Ahmtel a martyr. Sure, he's decapitated by a warforged and comes back to make some great decapitation puns ("My eyes mere feet from where his body fell" was a particular favorite, but why Risen Martyr? What is Ahmtel's Holy purpose--killing the Lord? (-0.5).So you're saying that "make puns" isn't a Holy Purpose in and of itself? But yeah, pretty much. He's coming back to kill the evil lord (an inspired, if the pun about "an inspired story" and the line about sending him back to Dol Quor didn't make that clear) and protect his lady friend the sprite from said lord's unwelcome advances.


Hi friend! I hope I can clear a few things up for you.


Offensively, you're not much in a fight.
Do you mean this in the sense that the build lacks the ability to overcome foes via waging peace as discussed in BoED, or that it lacks much in the way of actual ability to pack a punch? If so, that's kind of the point, right? A fluffy harmless bear that can only try really hard to make you nice. I understand Vow of Peace makes everything messed up, but the incompetence in an actual fight fight is part of the design.


Also, where is Archon's Trumpet found?
Nowhere. I was writing too fast for my own good; I got too excited over using the capstone. The spell is Heaven's Trumpet, found in the BoED, and requires you be an archon to cast, hence my mess up. That's still 100% on me, guess I'm the goober this time.


Also, for a Care Bear, may I suggest Sentinel of Bharrai?
Believe me, friend, nobody wanted Sentinel of Bharrai more than I did, but entry at 6 at the earliest and the fact that actual bear form doesn't come until level 3 meant that I would have had to lose the 3rd level of Emissary of Barachiel, which would mean no Conversion/Care Bear Stare, which I had decided was more central to the build than bear shape. Tragically I just couldn't finesse both in while finishing the SI. Sorry to disappoint

Have a nice day! :}

[Troacctid]

Is Care Bear getting any minus points for just pretending hengeyokai doesn't have a level adjustment? The build has 20 levels, but it should only have 19.

[OMG PONIES]

Is Care Bear getting any minus points for just pretending hengeyokai doesn't have a level adjustment? The build has 20 levels, but it should only have 19.
That's not quite what's happening; the race was part of the Oriental Adventures 3.5 update from Dragon Magazine which removed the LA.

Reviewing disputes currently.

[WhamBamSam]

So... No disputes? (I didn't have any.) Are we done with Risen Martyr?

Next ingredient... I'm hoping Helio put my last suggestion on her list. If not... I think we could get a pretty decent turnout for Arcane Archer. Last two have been kinda low turnout, although I'm not sure if that was due to the ingredients or just waning interest in 3.5.

But if Ponies gets to pick... Yathrinshee... I don't even know what that is. [Looking.] Huh. Yeah, that's definitely a "I Don't Even..." ingredient.

I am seconding the Honorable Mention for Aves Maria. The Care Bear really came out of left field and made me laugh, but I was really impressed with the audacity of the Node Store shenanigans. That was swinging for the fences, a retaining wall, two parking lots, and a swimming pool.I would find having to go the full 10 levels on Arcane Archer vexing (there's an argument that your UoSI actually gets worse with every level you take past 2nd), but could perhaps roll with it. There are some rules headaches to be found in the later levels as well, but we could probably sort them out.

I'd personally be more intrigued by whatever ride into madness Ponies would take us on, but it's possible that the masses wouldn't agree with me on that point and it would be nice for everyone but the judges to get turnout back up a bit.

It was actually Dire Stirge who proposed Yathrinshee. That'd be a bit of work to wrangle, yeah. I'm not entirely devoid of thoughts on it, but I'm not convinced any of those ideas are good.



Because diplomancy can be contentious as a focal point in IC, and because we just had an Exalted PrC, I'd sort of like to see something like Mortal Hunter, from BoVD.I really like Mortal Hunter. My first instinct would have been that it's too good a PrC for Iron Chef, but it is sort of a big hot mess of BoVD that necessitates some optimization work to really live up to its potential. Qualification gives us a hoop to jump through which is just restrictive enough to be potentially interesting, and many of the class abilities and prereqs don't play all that nicely together at first blush.


I'm rather wary of Apostle of Peace because the class itself gives 9th level spells, and good ones at that. It would make for some very difficult comparisons, at least in power, since everyone is in the T2 range, and effectiveness becomes similarly difficult when everyone has to work with Vow of Peace.

As for next SI, I feel like a break from magic, perhaps with the oft denied Eye of Gruumsh.As I've said before, Apostle of Peace is an act of war. If we were to get another exalted PrC, I'd be pushing for Vassal of Bahamut.

Eye of Gruumsh doesn't really do much besides hit things and spit things, but those are both potentially fun to do. I'd be down.

If it were up to me, I'd go with Beast Heart Adept or Elocater, per usual. I've been warming to the Defiant suggestion someone made last round as well.

[Inevitability]

That's not quite what's happening; the race was part of the Oriental Adventures 3.5 update from Dragon Magazine which removed the LA.

I thought we were supposed to consider Dragon Magazine invalid material?

[Sian]

Celebrant of Sharess? ... the hilarious part when you notice that you have a poor BAB on a Bard/Barbarian chassis with Pounce, that have a reasonable spell-list but is unable to use them when raging.

[Troacctid]

Yeah, Dragon Magazine isn't in the allowed sources. You're supposed to use the OA version.

Care Bear also didn't list Dragon #(whatever) as a source (or OA, come to think of it), which was worth a -0.5 penalty for Ahmtel.

I'm still considering whether to judge this round. Leaning towards spending the time elsewhere instead, mostly because I think I like the same winner as Ponies, but eh...

[Sian]

I thought we were supposed to consider Dragon Magazine invalid material?

I seem to recall an explicit exception when it comes to updates to 3e books (of which OA is the only book having gotten such a treatment) ... It was done at the same time as Shiba Protector I think?

[Sian]

Yeah, Dragon Magazine isn't in the allowed sources. You're supposed to use the OA version.

OP says otherwise (under Kitchen)


NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

[SaintRidley]

As I've said before, Apostle of Peace is an act of war. If we were to get another exalted PrC, I'd be pushing for Vassal of Bahamut.

Speaking as an observer, that looks like it would be both hilarious and troublesome, if only because of the successful killing a red dragon in single combat prereq. Would every build have to prove their effectiveness against such a threat prior to the VoB levels? How would they do so?

[WhamBamSam]

Speaking as an observer, that looks like it would be both hilarious and troublesome, if only because of the successful killing a red dragon in single combat prereq. Would every build have to prove their effectiveness against such a threat prior to the VoB levels? How would they do so?Spellsword had a similar, if perhaps less egregious issue in that it required you to win a fight through strength of arms alone. One judge ran a mock fight with a kobold fighter, though there was some dissatisfaction as to the manner in which the fight was run. Another judge basically left it all to fluff. I'd assume that the contestants would generally try to make a case that they could conceivably win the fight, at least under favorable circumstances. It'd be up to the judges to determine how much to reward or penalize them for a strong/weak case in that regard.

[Muggins]

OP says otherwise (under Kitchen)

NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
As someone without that particular article of Dragon Magazine - or, indeed, any Dragonlance books aside from the campaign setting - this ruling makes me uncomfortable. To me, it always felt like there was a line drawn in the sand in regards to which books were to be considered necessary materials for any competitor who was worried about build legality, and that third party books and random issues of Dragon Magazine fell squarely out of that category. Especially since the use of 3e books (without Wizards-published errata/updates) is otherwise fair game.

I'm not concerned enough to kick up a fuss about it, but it's been a real monkey on my back ever since I considered submitting a polearm-swinging Vanara Truenamer back in Round 61. If I'd have known at the time that there could've been errata to Dragonlance's Inquisitor PRC in some third party book, and that I could've been punished for that, I probably wouldn't have made my other submission (Sabine) either. :smallfrown:

[Jormengand]

If I'd have known at the time that there could've been errata to Dragonlance's Inquisitor PRC in some third party book,

It does say official errata are considered valid.

[Muggins]

It does say official errata are considered valid.
Not so, at least that I can tell.

This includes ... the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
The only Dragonlance book which got published(?) by Wizards was the Campaign Setting.

[Amphetryon]

Not so, at least that I can tell.

The only Dragonlance book which got published(?) by Wizards was the Campaign Setting.

Which means that any 'errata' in any Dragonlance sources other than the Campaign Setting would not be considered official for this contest, and no judge could 'punish' you for not considering that errata. I'm apparently confused about the nature of your concern?

[WhamBamSam]

Which means that any 'errata' in any Dragonlance sources other than the Campaign Setting would not be considered official for this contest, and no judge could 'punish' you for not considering that errata. I'm apparently confused about the nature of your concern?Because the OP specifically says 3.5 updates of DCS in 3rd party sourcebooks are considered official.

It would at least be nice to have a list of things that have 3rd party updates and where those updates are found.

[MisterKaws]

Because the OP specifically says 3.5 updates of DCS in 3rd party sourcebooks are considered official.

It would at least be nice to have a list of things that have 3rd party updates and where those updates are found.

Only for those two, actually. Well, at least as far as I know.

[Amphetryon]

Because the OP specifically says 3.5 updates of DCS in 3rd party sourcebooks are considered official.

It would at least be nice to have a list of things that have 3rd party updates and where those updates are found.


The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those booksUnless the errata/update was published within the original Dragonlance Campaign Setting, it's not eligible for this contest.

If the chair wishes to clarify, there's apparently confusion here.

[MisterKaws]

The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books
Unless the errata/update was published within the original Dragonlance Campaign Setting, it's not eligible for this contest.

If the chair wishes to clarify, there's apparently confusion here.

The prohibition to Dragonlance's books is overruled by this:


NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

[WhamBamSam]

Only for those two, actually. Well, at least as far as I know.Right, but it'd be nice to have a comprehensive list of the particular things that got updated from those books and where. For OA the updates are all in Dragon 318, but DCS stuff could be spread over multiple books as far as I know.

[OMG PONIES]

Thanks so much for judging Ponies! There are just a few things I wanted to point out/respond to.
Hey, no sweat; I appreciate your appreciation :smallbiggrin:.


While I'd normally call for more warblade to snag higher-level maneuvers, you manage to build nicely toward exactly what you wanted. Using Uncanny Trickster & Martial Study to pick up Greater Insightful strike was a nice way to get out of warblade while still picking up some extra mileage. However, I'm not sure that marshal serves for much aside from a one-level dip. Sure, I understand your initiative boosting here, but that doesn't really seem like a reason to sink 2 more levels into marshal when you could have used them for more maneuvers or psionics. Speaking of, psion felt a little isolated but you were never here for the powers anyway. Overall, everything had intention so there's no penalty, but we were in marshal a little too long for my taste (0).
Multiclass penalties are a pain, and amount to a large part of the reason why the build wasn't something like Marshal 1/Psion 1/Warblade 8/Risen Martyr 10. That said, Motivate Dexterity is pretty much always a significant boost to the whole party as well as a potential means to trivialize the DC15 Dex check to flip the poison ring open or closed one-handed, and Motivate Attack ends up semi-consequential with his flagging BAB.
Indeed, you were wise to avoid multiclass penalties from an Elegance standpoint; the above comments, however, are purely from a Power perspective. While marshal provides a scaling bonus to DEX checks ranging from +4 to +8 over time, as well as a flat +1 bonus to melee attacks, I still assert that the additional powers & power points from psion or the additional manifester level, maneuver known, and bonus feat from Warblade would have been more powerful. Psionics were a mere accessory to your build, but maneuvers were the keystone. Because of this, scoring stands.


You list a WIS of 8 which would mean you don't qualify for Psionic Meditation. However, that seems like a copy paste error since you start with a WIS of 12 and up it to the required 13 via Middle-Aged stat adjustments. So it seems like you do qualify. I'm a stickler for judging as presented, but not enough of a stickler to give you a full-on penalty for what seems like an obvious typo...but enough of a stickler not to give you full points here either (0).
Again, my sticklerhood comes out--you didn't include Eberron Campaign Setting or Dragon Compendium in your list of sources. Without them, it could be hard for folks to find Kalashtar and their mindlink psi-like ability, which is what I believe you're using to meet the manifester level requirement to take Psicrystal Containment. Also, it would be hard to find your "1 hp damage poison ring as a touch attack" weapon. Also, on said weapon please keep in mind that it takes a standard action to lock the needle in place, something not mentioned in your write-up on action economy (0).
Yeah, that's a copy/paste error. I had originally planned on dumping Wis, then changed it when I double checked that I qualified for everything. But then I didn't triple check to make sure that I'd changed all instances of the number, or that I'd cited everything. I missed the source for Skilled City-Dweller as well. Totally my bad.

Ahmtel will usually just leave the ring in its upright locked position when out adventuring. If he needs to conceal it for whatever reason, then he does have Motivate Dexterity to trivialize the Dex check to flip it open inconspicuously with one hand before combat starts. Worst case scenario, he also has a psicrystal on his person, which doesn't usually have much better to do with its action than flip the ring open.
Thanks for your honesty on the copy/paste and source stuff; I didn't even catch the needed Cityscape reference. On the ring, I appreciate that insight into your tactics...but it wasn't presented in your write-up. Also, I wouldn't call the Dex check trivial. At the level you get Motivate DEX, you have a 55% chance of success. This scales to 60% at level 8, 65% at 11, 70% by level 15, and caps off at 75% success at level 16. Even at your best, that means a 1 in 4 chance of failure and a 1 in 20 chance of pricking your own finger. While Cs get degrees, they don't trivialize skill checks. Also, if we start talking about psicrystals opening/closing the ring for you, we inch closer and closer to gray areas that require a friendly DM. Scoring stands.



The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by selecting a power to avoid the drawback of Nimbus of Light as well as using required exalted feat to snag Nymph's Kiss, which is central to suggested tactics (0.5).
While I really like the bonuses provided to your Concentration checks from going deathless, the CHA increase, and your holy p*urpose, nothing else even received a passing mention. Let's face it; Ahmtel was built to showcase your Greater Insightful Strike tricks, not to showcase Risen Martyr (-0.5).
Control Light is actually there to suppress the light from Protective Aura. Nimbus of Light can already be turned on and off as a free action. Holy Purpose also shores up Ahmtel's attack bonus, which pretty much solves the problem of Risen Martyr's poor BAB, as he only needs the boost to hit, not being reliant on Power Attack or iterative attacks. I do also call out the ability to use specific Dorjes, Wands, and Scrolls to create some synergy with Shield Other (Share Pain with his Psicrystal to better soak up the damage) and Perfection (form changing spells/powers to make use of Outsider forms*). But yes, Risen Martyr is largely just a vehicle for pumping up Insightful Strike.

*With some chicanery (a host feat for ML, Owl's Wisdom to temporarily meet the Wis requirement, then a Psychic Reformation) you could even get a Feat Leech-able Metamorphic Transfer onto your Psicrystal for even more fun with shapeshifting.
Yep, my mistake on the use of Control Light. Still, you use Nymph's Kiss not only to meet the requirement, but to help supercharge your main schtick, so you're keeping that bonus. While Holy Purpose increases your attacks, it's only situational and wasn't mentioned in your write-up. I did miss the passing mention of dorjes to use transmutation spells to snag various outsider forms or Share Pain to couple up with the damage you absorb from Shield Othering, so that's worth something. +0.5 to UoSI.



As above, while the style of your entry was great I don't really understand what makes Ahmtel a martyr. Sure, he's decapitated by a warforged and comes back to make some great decapitation puns ("My eyes mere feet from where his body fell" was a particular favorite, but why Risen Martyr? What is Ahmtel's Holy purpose--killing the Lord? (-0.5).
So you're saying that "make puns" isn't a Holy Purpose in and of itself? But yeah, pretty much. He's coming back to kill the evil lord (an inspired, if the pun about "an inspired story" and the line about sending him back to Dol Quor didn't make that clear) and protect his lady friend the sprite from said lord's unwelcome advances.
Nice, the subtle references to Inspired and Dol Quor must have caught me on a bum day. I'm still struggling to see how him being killed by the evil lord's warforged lackey makes him a martyr, though. Scoring stands.


Hi friend! I hope I can clear a few things up for you.
Hey bud, sounds like a plan!



Offensively, you're not much in a fight.
Do you mean this in the sense that the build lacks the ability to overcome foes via waging peace as discussed in BoED, or that it lacks much in the way of actual ability to pack a punch? If so, that's kind of the point, right? A fluffy harmless bear that can only try really hard to make you nice. I understand Vow of Peace makes everything messed up, but the incompetence in an actual fight fight is part of the design.
I meant the latter, as I measure Power based on one's ability to dish it out in a straight-up fight (offense), stay alive (defense), and do other stuff (utility). While I love your Peace Waging, that falls squarely under "other stuff," especially since I don't know how much peace you could wage against mindless undead & other baddies without language or intelligence. While I know that you're saying his inability to fight, that sounds like my developers at work who tell me, "it's not a bug...it's a feature!" :smallannoyed:. Scoring stands.



Also, where is Archon's Trumpet found?
Nowhere. I was writing too fast for my own good; I got too excited over using the capstone. The spell is Heaven's Trumpet, found in the BoED, and requires you be an archon to cast, hence my mess up. That's still 100% on me, guess I'm the goober this time.
Ah, good snag. I'm glad to see you use Perfection in that way, but the other class features still didn't receive ample synergy so scoring stands.



Also, for a Care Bear, may I suggest Sentinel of Bharrai?
Believe me, friend, nobody wanted Sentinel of Bharrai more than I did, but entry at 6 at the earliest and the fact that actual bear form doesn't come until level 3 meant that I would have had to lose the 3rd level of Emissary of Barachiel, which would mean no Conversion/Care Bear Stare, which I had decided was more central to the build than bear shape. Tragically I just couldn't finesse both in while finishing the SI. Sorry to disappoint
Don't sweat it, I'm not disappointed. Sentinel of Bharrai is something I would have loved, but I know you had no room to wedge it in. Care Bear stare is better than being an actual bear, and while Sentinel of Bharrai or werebear could have been used if you weren't trying to cram in Risen Martyr, but here your adherence to the Secret Ingredient had to trump your adherence to theme. I dig it, and this wasn't a scoring item so nothing here to dispute.


Have a nice day! :}
Back at cha!


I'd personally be more intrigued by whatever ride into madness Ponies would take us on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gxKFAhfZc


Care Bear also didn't list Dragon #(whatever) as a source (or OA, come to think of it), which was worth a -0.5 penalty for Ahmtel.
Let me know if you think I'm being inconsistent here, but my thought process was this: Care Bear already received a deduction where this would go for something else, so even though I missed it up front it would have no change to his score if I had caught it. Thoughts?


Right, but it'd be nice to have a comprehensive list of the particular things that got updated from those books and where. For OA the updates are all in Dragon 318, but DCS stuff could be spread over multiple books as far as I know.

Indeed, it would be nice to find a list. I did a little Slacker Googling and couldn't find any material in DLCS that was officially errata'd or updated to 3.5 in a later third-party Dragonlance splat, though. Anyone know of any, or are we discussing a moot point?

[Troacctid]

Let me know if you think I'm being inconsistent here, but my thought process was this: Care Bear already received a deduction where this would go for something else, so even though I missed it up front it would have no change to his score if I had caught it. Thoughts?

Indeed, it would be nice to find a list. I did a little Slacker Googling and couldn't find any material in DLCS that was officially errata'd or updated to 3.5 in a later third-party Dragonlance splat, though. Anyone know of any, or are we discussing a moot point?
I personally would come down relatively hard on a contestant who fails to cite Dragon Magazine material, since it's so difficult to find if you don't already know where it is.

I'm also not a big fan of including 3.5 updates from Dragon, because unlike with stuff that was updated in actual books (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x), there's basically no reasonable way to know which things got updated and which things didn't (aside from having read all 55 issues that were released between the 3.5 update and the switch to 4th edition). Imagine submitting a build and then having the judge tell you, "Sorry, I'm going to have to give you an Elegance penalty because according to the revised version of Thrall of Grazz'zt in Dragon #360, you don't have a high enough base attack bonus to qualify for your feats."

[Darrin]

Yep, my mistake on the use of Control Light. Still, you use Nymph's Kiss not only to meet the requirement, but to help supercharge your main schtick, so you're keeping that bonus. While Holy Purpose increases your attacks, it's only situational and wasn't mentioned in your write-up. I did miss the passing mention of dorjes to use transmutation spells to snag various outsider forms or Share Pain to couple up with the damage you absorb from Shield Othering, so that's worth something. +0.5 to UoSI.


Ok, so... Ahmtel and Voci Causam are tied for silver? No bronze... is that how the medaling works?

Scores After One Judge
EntryPlaceOMG Ponies
D (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864668&postcount=89)Gold15.5
Voci Causam (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864702&postcount=90)Silver14.5
Ahmtel (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864711&postcount=91)Silver14.5
The Care Bear (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864626&postcount=87)Fourth12.5
Aves Maria (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864660&postcount=88)Fifth9

[arclance]

I personally would come down relatively hard on a contestant who fails to cite Dragon Magazine material, since it's so difficult to find if you don't already know where it is.

I'm also not a big fan of including 3.5 updates from Dragon, because unlike with stuff that was updated in actual books (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x), there's basically no reasonable way to know which things got updated and which things didn't (aside from having read all 55 issues that were released between the 3.5 update and the switch to 4th edition). Imagine submitting a build and then having the judge tell you, "Sorry, I'm going to have to give you an Elegance penalty because according to the revised version of Thrall of Grazz'zt in Dragon #360, you don't have a high enough base attack bonus to qualify for your feats."
Google says it is in Dragon #318 and it is correct.
The update is 16 pages long (one being a full art page) so it can't be quickly summarized.

[Heliomance]

Regarding 3.5 updates:

The only thing I'm aware of this ever having come up for is the OA update in Dragon #318. I declared that in effect for the Shiba Protector round, and I think it served us well. As for Dragonlance updates, I was told there were some in third party books, so I added it to the rules to be consistent with OA. I don't specifically know what's updated and where, and I'm fairly sure it's never actually come up.

[Darrin]

I have a print copy of Dragon #318, and I'm in the process of transcribing/converting a "fair use" errata document that should cover all of the changes not covered by the official OA errata. I'm not sure how long it will take, but once it's ready I'll throw it up somewhere and we can put a link in the Kitchen post.

[Sian]

only Dragonlance update that springs to mind is Dragonspawn which were updated in Bestiary of Krynn

[The Viscount]

I personally would come down relatively hard on a contestant who fails to cite Dragon Magazine material, since it's so difficult to find if you don't already know where it is.

I'm also not a big fan of including 3.5 updates from Dragon, because unlike with stuff that was updated in actual books (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x), there's basically no reasonable way to know which things got updated and which things didn't (aside from having read all 55 issues that were released between the 3.5 update and the switch to 4th edition). Imagine submitting a build and then having the judge tell you, "Sorry, I'm going to have to give you an Elegance penalty because according to the revised version of Thrall of Grazz'zt in Dragon #360, you don't have a high enough base attack bonus to qualify for your feats."

It's not so bad as it may seem in that example, the only Dragon Magazine update we are allowing is the single issue that updates OA. The only other third party updates are the Dragonlance books, addressed below. For the purpose of this contest, we're ignoring all other Dragon Magazine, so you don't have to worry.


only Dragonlance update that springs to mind is Dragonspawn which were updated in Bestiary of Krynn

In light of these, simplest solution for now seems to be to say that the updates in bestiary of krynn apply to Dragonlance Campaign Setting, and if indeed anything else exists, how about we a address it via the following: If there exists any 3.5 update to material presented in Dragonlance Campaign Setting that is found in another Dragonlance book, and this material has not yet been mentioned and added to the Kitchen in the first post, that the judges are only to use this material if the chef supplies it. Once supplied, it now enters the kitchen. This way no chef has to worry about being unfairly judged for something they didn't know, and the judges don't have to scour everything to make sure they are using the most accurate information.

As for this competition, if indeed a tie is resolved with 2 silvers and no bronze, then I believe we're done here.

[MisterKaws]

I propose a change:


Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed, but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. The currently known updates allowed by this note are:

Dragon #318: Oriental Adventures
Dragon #357: Thrall of Demogorgon
Dragon #360: Thrall of Graz'zt
Bestiary of Krynn: Dragonspawn

Judges may not give an Elegance penalty for missing official updates not published by WotC that are not yet listed in the Kitchen, and any non-listed updates mentioned by competitors, judges or spectators are to be added to this note in the Kitchen in subsequent rounds.


Also changed a semicolon because it was wrongly used.

Note: These are the only updates known to me. I went and checked nearly all 3.5 Dragon Magazine issues, and I'm fairly certain that there is nothing else in it. Even so, I might have missed something, so feel free to check.

[The Viscount]

Well no, you see, the updates to Thrall of Demogorgon and Thrall of Grazz't aren't part of the kitchen, because they aren't official, they're through Dragon Magazine.

The update for OA was a comprehensive one, but more importantly was added as a special exception, not based on previous rules.

[MisterKaws]

Well no, you see, the updates to Thrall of Demogorgon and Thrall of Grazz't aren't part of the kitchen, because they aren't official, they're through Dragon Magazine.

The update for OA was a comprehensive one, but more importantly was added as a special exception, not based on previous rules.

Thrall of Demogorgon and Thrall of Graz'zt are updates to the 3e versions presented in the Book of Vile Darkness, and are in fact, nearly identical to their previous versions, aside from some necessary conversions and performance improvements. Thus, as described by the note, they are considered legal, even though Dragon Magazine is otherwise illegal here.

[OMG PONIES]

I personally would come down relatively hard on a contestant who fails to cite Dragon Magazine material, since it's so difficult to find if you don't already know where it is.
My question was more of this: Care Bear is already receiving a penalty for the bullet point in my criteria which covers questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, illegal sources, etc. Are you proposing that I add a separate penalty under another of my bullet points, or are we in agreement that Care Bear is already receiving a penalty where that "failure to cite" penalty would go?


I'm also not a big fan of including 3.5 updates from Dragon, because unlike with stuff that was updated in actual books (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x), there's basically no reasonable way to know which things got updated and which things didn't...


Ok, so... Ahmtel and Voci Causam are tied for silver? No bronze... is that how the medaling works?
https://memecrunch.com/meme/11H01/you-are-correct-sir/image.jpg?w=400&c=1


I don't specifically know what's updated and where, and I'm fairly sure it's never actually come up.
Indeed, I can count on zero hands the number of times that us following the current phrasing in the OP has caused an issue with a stray 3.5 update that a chef was unaware of. This conversation actually began because of the opposite: a build was submitted where the chef in question knowingly built using the updated version, which caused a scoring question based on the non-updated version.

[The Viscount]

Then....should we just drop it and move on to the next round, and cross that bridge when we come to it?

[OMG PONIES]

Then....should we just drop it and move on to the next round, and cross that bridge when we come to it?
My 2 CP would be "yes." It hasn't come up yet in 78 rounds, including when Thrall of Demogorgon scored some idiot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17753303&postcount=315) a gold medal. If an obscure update comes into play, chances are the judges may miss it and not penalize anyway. Even if they catch it, one can always dispute. My concern is that legislating everything into the OP or FAQ makes us more specific, but less accessible to newer Chefs and judges alike.

[daremetoidareyo]

My 2 CP would be "yes." It hasn't come up yet in 78 rounds, including when Thrall of Demogorgon scored some idiot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17753303&postcount=315) a gold medal. If an obscure update comes into play, chances are the judges may miss it and not penalize anyway. Even if they catch it, one can always dispute. My concern is that legislating everything into the OP or FAQ makes us more specific, but less accessible to newer Chefs and judges alike.

I second this notion.

[Sian]

I went and checked nearly all 3.5 Dragon Magazine issues, and I'm fairly certain that there is nothing else in it.

wait, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the 3.5 line officially end at #359? ... that was (IIRC) the last magazine that was published by Paizo and distributed via snail-mail, with the next one being Wizards opening of their digital distribution and 4e wank-fest

[MisterKaws]

wait, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the 3.5 line officially end at #359? ... that was (IIRC) the last magazine that was published by Paizo and distributed via snail-mail, with the next one being Wizards opening of their digital distribution and 4e wank-fest

Yes, but there were still some really nice articles on the last three, likely leftovers from what Paizo planned to publish.

[Troacctid]

wait, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the 3.5 line officially end at #359? ... that was (IIRC) the last magazine that was published by Paizo and distributed via snail-mail, with the next one being Wizards opening of their digital distribution and 4e wank-fest

No, 3.5e content continued through issue #363.

[Heliomance]

...and, just as I was about to close this round, a new message turns up in my inbox!


Let me say that I don't really necessarily consider these disputes, per se, but I did want to just clarify/comment on a few things. I don't think there were deductions made for these (though, if there were points not given, feel free to add to the score, if you'd like.)



Someone actually managed to make competent use of Master Linguist? Not that it's bad…just that I wouldn't have thought of it for a moment. Good on you! (0.5).

Awesome, isn't it? I do love this feat. I appreciate your commenting on it! I tend to think that knowing languages is an underrated skill at most tables. Some of the most compelling games I've played in have included strange languages and mistranslations and inabilities to communicate. And, of course, a big advantage can be had by a party if everyone knows a language that the enemies don't!



Most glaring is Widen Supernatural Ability--that late in the game, it seemed like a waste as a 1/day feat.


I must disagree here. Typically, I don't go for 1/day abilities, especially in feat form. It is, often, lackluster, especially for something like a fireball or some other instantaneous effect. But in this case, that it's a once per day use isn't really an issue. Conversion isn't something that Voci needs to use more than once per day. And, I'll grant, that widening a 30' radius effect to 60'r is nice, but maybe not worth a feat. But, since the Admiral's Bicorne effect of the Yarmulke extends the Conversion effect to 100'r, it then gets Widened to 200'. That's hardly 'a waste' for something as potent as Conversion!



You've listed the +2 insight bonus from Amulet of Wordtwisting (though it's listed as morale, which I think you meant to list as coming from admiral's bicorne)...


Oops! Yes, the bonus listed as a MORALE bonus is listed as being from Amulet of Wordtwisting and should be listed as being from the Admiral's Bicorne. Imagine my embarrassment at typos concerning Wordtwisting!



...as well as a +4 insight bonus from Amulet of Wordtwisting (but that's only if you're an orc...or a changeling with Racial Emulation, which you didn't snag).


Tsk, tsk.... This is D&D 3.5. There isn't anything that has only one (or two) ways of doing something. In this case, there is (at least) one more way.
Use Magical Device allows a character to trick a magic item into thinking s/he's of another race via the 'Emulate a race' task. A flat DC 25 will let Voci make the Yarmulke think he's an orc. At 13th level (when the Yarmulke starts getting magical), Voci has a Charisma of 22 (18 base, +1 at 8th level, +1 at 12 level, +2 from Risen Martyr).
13 (Ranks) +6 (Cha) +6 (Marshal Aura) is 25. Voci auto-succeeds in making the Yarmulke think he's an orc every time he puts in on his head. (Which, incidentally, makes it think he's a [humanoid] for using the Admiral's Bicorne abilities, too.)
I should have mentioned it all in the write-up. I do apologize for omitting that explanation earlier.



but when you're presenting something so custom, please be sure to dot the Is and cross the Ts...


I get vertigo when I cross my eyes. Though, a look at the front of me, and the ketchup and mustard stains there, will tell you that I often dot my Ts.

That being said, I should have made a chart. Again, I apologize.



...the total cost of your powered-up yarmulke with Amulet of Word Twisting, Medal of Gallantry, Veil of Allure, Circlet of Persuasion, Admiral's Bicorne, and +6 enhancement to CHA comes to 136,181.25 gp and 136 days of downtime. As presented, you can only have something this expensive at levels 17 & beyond per the max value table within Ancestral Relic.


Wow! You crunched the numbers and did the math!
It was the Admiral's Bicorne here that was the cake. The rest was just gravy. (Uhmm...ew. I mean, frosting!) The feat is taken at level 12; the Bicorne can be afforded at level 13. I didn't even run the numbers after that, just assumed things would all fit in eventually. I didn't really want to get too slogged down in it, knowing that some DMs will have different formulae for magic item costs.
An important note (Which I'm pretty sure you realize already, but that I'll mention for clarity's sake):
The Yarmulke gets everything at level 17, but that doesn't mean that Voci has to wait that long before getting anything. He'll start with the Admiral's Bicorne at level 13 and add more and more to the Yarmulke as he levels up (and can afford it).
All in all, pretty good to be able to add all of those abilities by level 17 and still have three more levels worth of stuff left over.

Thank you for the thoroughness of your judging. It's always a pleasure to see your hat in the judge's ring and to hear your comments.

[WhamBamSam]

My 2 CP would be "yes." It hasn't come up yet in 78 rounds, including when Thrall of Demogorgon scored some idiot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17753303&postcount=315) a gold medal. If an obscure update comes into play, chances are the judges may miss it and not penalize anyway. Even if they catch it, one can always dispute. My concern is that legislating everything into the OP or FAQ makes us more specific, but less accessible to newer Chefs and judges alike.For whatever it's worth, the Thrall of Graz'zt and Thrall of Demogorgon updates change essentially nothing, and in fact are strictly better (albeit barely, Thrall of Demogorgon gets an extra save against mind affecting abilities as part of its Two Personas, Thrall of Graz'zt broadens Dark Charisma to apply to all Cha related checks with evil creatures and gets two levels where you can choose to gain a bonus feat instead of advancing spellcasting if you want that for some reason). Lawrence wouldn't even have noticed the change.

I haven't checked the exact changes to dragonspawn, but they're not likely to be a big loss. There are a few things I like out of DCS (Strafing Breath, Reserves of Strength, etc), but if we don't know of any other changes, then I think we can weather the storm.

It might start to come up a bit more often with regard to OA now that we all know hengeyokai are LA+0, but yeah, on the whole, I think we can safely kick this can down the road while keeping an eye out for other changes that fall under this umbrella.

[Sian]

I haven't checked the exact changes to dragonspawn, but they're not likely to be a big loss.

Actually its quite a few significant changes.

There's an additional sub-type (Sea Dragonspawn)

Everyone that aren't Human or Half-elf, are automatically forced to add a completely new template (Abomination Dragonspawn) on top of it, which basically is a couple of d% rolls on a table, a free pick between two abilities dependent on race, -4Wis -4Int and +1LA.

Instead of becoming Monstrous Humanoid (Elemental type), they become Dragon (Augmented, Elemental type), with all the bonuses you get from that, except not recalculating bonuses from RHD.

They gain immunity to their elemental type.

[WhamBamSam]

Actually its quite a few significant changes.

There's an additional sub-type (Sea Dragonspawn)

Everyone that aren't Human or Half-elf, are automatically forced to add a completely new template (Abomination Dragonspawn) on top of it, which basically is a couple of d% rolls on a table, a free pick between two abilities dependent on race, -4Wis -4Int and +1LA.

Instead of becoming Monstrous Humanoid (Elemental type), they become Dragon (Augmented, Elemental type), with all the bonuses you get from that, except not recalculating bonuses from RHD.

They gain immunity to their elemental type.I actually had Dragonspawn mixed up with Draconians, but I didn't mean that the changes wouldn't be significant so much as that they wouldn't come up all that often. It might be a little more likely to come up with Dragonspawn, since the White Dragonspawn was alright originally and the new version might be somewhat usable, but even so it's not something that's going to be an overly frequent concern.

[Darrin]

Ponies, did you need some time to respond, or should we just wrap this up and move on to the next ingredient?

[OMG PONIES]

For whatever it's worth, the Thrall of Graz'zt and Thrall of Demogorgon updates change essentially nothing, and in fact are strictly better (albeit barely, Thrall of Demogorgon gets an extra save against mind affecting abilities as part of its Two Personas, Thrall of Graz'zt broadens Dark Charisma to apply to all Cha related checks with evil creatures and gets two levels where you can choose to gain a bonus feat instead of advancing spellcasting if you want that for some reason). Lawrence wouldn't even have noticed the change.
True, but then again, Lawrence wouldn't have noticed much...


Actually its quite a few significant changes.

There's an additional sub-type (Sea Dragonspawn)

Everyone that aren't Human or Half-elf, are automatically forced to add a completely new template (Abomination Dragonspawn) on top of it, which basically is a couple of d% rolls on a table, a free pick between two abilities dependent on race, -4Wis -4Int and +1LA.

Instead of becoming Monstrous Humanoid (Elemental type), they become Dragon (Augmented, Elemental type), with all the bonuses you get from that, except not recalculating bonuses from RHD.

They gain immunity to their elemental type.
I will grant you this: we've had two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15315106&postcount=353) dragonspawn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18960582&postcount=75) [dragonspawns?] in the life of this contest. However, while all 3 judges mentioned dragonspawn for other considerations, none of them mentioned anything about the third-party update, so I don't think we need to codify anything about it.


Let me say that I don't really necessarily consider these disputes, per se, but I did want to just clarify/comment on a few things. I don't think there were deductions made for these (though, if there were points not given, feel free to add to the score, if you'd like.)
Since you don't consider these disputes, I won't either. Don't want to leave you hanging though, since I enjoyed your build and your overall demeanor in making these comments. Let's shoot the breeze!



Someone actually managed to make competent use of Master Linguist? Not that it's bad…just that I wouldn't have thought of it for a moment. Good on you! (0.5).
Awesome, isn't it? I do love this feat. I appreciate your commenting on it! I tend to think that knowing languages is an underrated skill at most tables. Some of the most compelling games I've played in have included strange languages and mistranslations and inabilities to communicate. And, of course, a big advantage can be had by a party if everyone knows a language that the enemies don't!
Yeah, those compelling games require a DM with a fine eye for detail. As my players will tell you, that ain't me. However, I'm glad you've found some--those games can be an absolute blast!



Most glaring is Widen Supernatural Ability--that late in the game, it seemed like a waste as a 1/day feat.
I must disagree here. Typically, I don't go for 1/day abilities, especially in feat form. It is, often, lackluster, especially for something like a fireball or some other instantaneous effect. But in this case, that it's a once per day use isn't really an issue. Conversion isn't something that Voci needs to use more than once per day. And, I'll grant, that widening a 30' radius effect to 60'r is nice, but maybe not worth a feat. But, since the Admiral's Bicorne effect of the Yarmulke extends the Conversion effect to 100'r, it then gets Widened to 200'. That's hardly 'a waste' for something as potent as Conversion!
I've gotta agree to disagree, as I think you'd face groups in need of conversion more than 1/day--especially at higher levels. Also, while you've taken care of the language-dependent descriptor, it's still a mind-affecting ability which loses some traction at higher levels. It's definitely a huge radius 1/day, but it's kind of like cranking my subwoofer in my car to blast Del tha Funkee Homosapien (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uceKqK7xYs) 1/day--even if everyone can hear it, not everyone will really get it, ya know?



You've listed the +2 insight bonus from Amulet of Wordtwisting (though it's listed as morale, which I think you meant to list as coming from admiral's bicorne)...
Oops! Yes, the bonus listed as a MORALE bonus is listed as being from Amulet of Wordtwisting and should be listed as being from the Admiral's Bicorne. Imagine my embarrassment at typos concerning Wordtwisting!
Indeed, irony at its finest :smalltongue:. Just glad that my pedantry wasn't unwarranted.



...as well as a +4 insight bonus from Amulet of Wordtwisting (but that's only if you're an orc...or a changeling with Racial Emulation, which you didn't snag).
Tsk, tsk.... This is D&D 3.5. There isn't anything that has only one (or two) ways of doing something. In this case, there is (at least) one more way.
Use Magical Device allows a character to trick a magic item into thinking s/he's of another race via the 'Emulate a race' task. A flat DC 25 will let Voci make the Yarmulke think he's an orc. At 13th level (when the Yarmulke starts getting magical), Voci has a Charisma of 22 (18 base, +1 at 8th level, +1 at 12 level, +2 from Risen Martyr).
13 (Ranks) +6 (Cha) +6 (Marshal Aura) is 25. Voci auto-succeeds in making the Yarmulke think he's an orc every time he puts in on his head. (Which, incidentally, makes it think he's a [humanoid] for using the Admiral's Bicorne abilities, too.)
I should have mentioned it all in the write-up. I do apologize for omitting that explanation earlier.
Ack, I always forget about that use of the skill! I appreciate you falling on your sword about not including it in the write-up, but it's PHB material so I should have remembered it as well. Granted, the scoring in this section wasn't just about Racial Emulation so it wouldn't change anything. I give you kudos for Ruleslawyering the Ruleslawyer, though :smallcool:.



but when you're presenting something so custom, please be sure to dot the Is and cross the Ts...
I get vertigo when I cross my eyes. Though, a look at the front of me, and the ketchup and mustard stains there, will tell you that I often dot my Ts.

That being said, I should have made a chart. Again, I apologize.
That. Was. Beautiful. You never need to apologize to me again.



...the total cost of your powered-up yarmulke with Amulet of Word Twisting, Medal of Gallantry, Veil of Allure, Circlet of Persuasion, Admiral's Bicorne, and +6 enhancement to CHA comes to 136,181.25 gp and 136 days of downtime. As presented, you can only have something this expensive at levels 17 & beyond per the max value table within Ancestral Relic.
Wow! You crunched the numbers and did the math!
It was the Admiral's Bicorne here that was the cake. The rest was just gravy. (Uhmm...ew. I mean, frosting!) The feat is taken at level 12; the Bicorne can be afforded at level 13. I didn't even run the numbers after that, just assumed things would all fit in eventually. I didn't really want to get too slogged down in it, knowing that some DMs will have different formulae for magic item costs.
An important note (Which I'm pretty sure you realize already, but that I'll mention for clarity's sake):
The Yarmulke gets everything at level 17, but that doesn't mean that Voci has to wait that long before getting anything. He'll start with the Admiral's Bicorne at level 13 and add more and more to the Yarmulke as he levels up (and can afford it).
All in all, pretty good to be able to add all of those abilities by level 17 and still have three more levels worth of stuff left over.
Yeah, can you tell I don't have a life? I agree that Ancestral Relic is the saving grace here as it allows you to ramp up the power of your yarmulke as you level...but still, it's only available to you at full power for 15% of your career. And why do I now have a strong hankering for some gravy cake?

Thank you for the thoroughness of your judging. It's always a pleasure to see your hat in the judge's ring and to hear your comments.
Thanks, as a rampant narcissist I appreciate the appreciation!

That said, I think we're wrapped here. The wife and I will be away camping with the church youth group at a music festival from 6/28-7/3 so I'll see y'all on the 4th! :smallcool:

[Heliomance]

And we have the results! Many thanks for the table, Darrin.

Final Scores
EntryPlaceChefOMG Ponies
D (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864668&postcount=89)GoldDarrin15.5
Voci Causam (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864702&postcount=90)SilverMacabaret14.5
Ahmtel (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864711&postcount=91)SilverWhamBamSam14.5
The Care Bear (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864626&postcount=87)FourthThe Viscount12.5
Aves Maria (link) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20864660&postcount=88)Fifthdaremetoidareyo9
Congratulations to Darrin, Macabaret, and WhamBamSam!

[OMG PONIES]

Congrats to all chefs! Heliomance, are we still doing Honorable Mention? Because I think daremetoidareyo got a few noms for trying to squeeze 9th-level spells out of this class.

[Darrin]

I was going to say, Aves Maria probably has honorable mention, but I don't know if anyone else PM'ed the chair with additional HM votes.

I am humbled. My first solo gold... and I screwed it up by not qualifying for the SI. I realize the judges have been lenient before on language requirements, but still a bonehead move on my part. Thank you for the professional courtesy, Ponies. You continue to set an impossibly high standard.



D: 15.5 (3.875 average)
Power: 4.5 Rogue breakpoint is followed, but Ranger 2 would have netted you a fighting style and more Hellreaver means more uses for your fury points…why not take more of those? (0).


As if I need a reason to put TWF Ranger levels into a build... yes, I considered it, but in the movie, D quite blatantly does not use an offhand weapon (which would also interfere with Left Hand making snarky comments). If you'd been a stickler for cinematic accuracy, it looks like D is one-handing a bastard sword in the movie, but I was worried about damage output and decided to just stick with the two-handed power attack thing, which left enough room for some additional Cha synergy.

Hellreaver was something of an afterthought. I needed an additional +1 Will save to get into Risen Martyr, and although Fighter 3 would have worked, I just couldn't bring myself to do that. I looked at Hexblade 1, Samurai 1, but Hellreaver was just sitting there, which I'd looked at it earlier when I was investigating the Warforged idea... and hey, I'd already qualified for it. Furious Strike didn't add much, but +1d6 was still +1d6, and the swift action didn't appear to interfere with anything important.

I considered getting rid of the Sneak Attack stuff altogether (2d6 without Craven is kinda underwhelming), which would have made room for more Hellreaver, but the LA didn't leave enough room for Hellreaver 5 (infinitely refresh Fury points), but decided to leave it in because I wanted to tie it back into the blindness caused by RM's Holy Aura.



Your deflection bonus helps to shore up the AC penalties of using Shock Trooper, you find uses for a lot of your SLAs (especially against favored enemies), and you pair shield other with energy immunities (even though the others can do that, you're the first to point it out)?


I wasn't sure if the shield other/energy immunity works. My initial thought was, hey, I can combine shield other with DR, but the RAW appears to be "Nope!" (damage from spells bypasses DR, and shield other becomes the source of the damage) Then it occurred to me... energy resistance isn't the same as DR, but I couldn't find any definitive ruling. Even if it does work, in actual practice, this might be tricky to pull off, as when your shielded ally gets ganked by a buttload of damage, you don't necessarily know if it's going to be an energy type you can ignore, and no Con score with instadeath at 0 HP doesn't exactly make you a damage-soaking tank.



I feel like I'd get this even more if I had read any D novels, but by gum--the whole "badass killing vampires and glowing" thing just feels like he's been killed and risen as a martyr on the path of good and blah blah blah.


I'm only familiar with the first movie, as it was one of the first bootleg anime tapes I got my hands on back when scratchy second-hand copies of VHS was the only way to get anime on this side of the pond. (Ugh, now I feel old.) From what I can tell, the subsequent novels/manga don't involve nearly as much vampire-hunting as I thought they would. But I did provide a link to the entire movie, if you were unfamiliar with it. (I even found a script online... and I'm somewhat amused at how the English dub attempted to clean up some of the original Japanese dialog.)

New ingredient soonish? I started futzing around with one of the suggestions earlier, and I've already hit a few snags.

[Amphetryon]

Congrats to all the contestants. Looking forward to the next round.

[WhamBamSam]

Woo. Good round all and congratulations to Darrin and Macabaret. I'm glad you enjoyed my Faux Shakespeare, Ponies, even if it didn't end up getting me any points. I had a lot of fun writing it. Also, with regard to the poison ring Dex check, I was using Ahmtel's Cha with items included, which does trivialize the check, but you're right that it's still in doubt without reliance on gear.

I too have been messing around with a few suggestions, (my own and others). I'm pretty excited for whatever the next round turns out to be.

[Heliomance]

Congrats to all chefs! Heliomance, are we still doing Honorable Mention? Because I think daremetoidareyo got a few noms for trying to squeeze 9th-level spells out of this class.

Sure thing - Honourable mention to Aves Maria!

[OMG PONIES]

I am humbled. My first solo gold... and I screwed it up by not qualifying for the SI. I realize the judges have been lenient before on language requirements, but still a bonehead move on my part. Thank you for the professional courtesy, Ponies. You continue to set an impossibly high standard.
Hey, it's not like I count skill points at each level and check class skills vs. cross-class skills. Ain't nobody got time for that!


As if I need a reason to put TWF Ranger levels into a build... yes, I considered it, but in the movie, D quite blatantly does not use an offhand weapon (which would also interfere with Left Hand making snarky comments). If you'd been a stickler for cinematic accuracy, it looks like D is one-handing a bastard sword in the movie, but I was worried about damage output and decided to just stick with the two-handed power attack thing, which left enough room for some additional Cha synergy.
Yeah, I understand that TWF may not have fit the character, but it's such a usual power grab that I felt compelled to include it.


Hellreaver was something of an afterthought. I needed an additional +1 Will save to get into Risen Martyr, and although Fighter 3 would have worked, I just couldn't bring myself to do that. I looked at Hexblade 1, Samurai 1, but Hellreaver was just sitting there, which I'd looked at it earlier when I was investigating the Warforged idea... and hey, I'd already qualified for it. Furious Strike didn't add much, but +1d6 was still +1d6, and the swift action didn't appear to interfere with anything important.
Fair enough, you sneaky minx! I thought you were taking it for some reason...


I considered getting rid of the Sneak Attack stuff altogether (2d6 without Craven is kinda underwhelming), which would have made room for more Hellreaver, but the LA didn't leave enough room for Hellreaver 5 (infinitely refresh Fury points), but decided to leave it in because I wanted to tie it back into the blindness caused by RM's Holy Aura.
Yeah, makes sense as well.


I wasn't sure if the shield other/energy immunity works. My initial thought was, hey, I can combine shield other with DR, but the RAW appears to be "Nope!" (damage from spells bypasses DR, and shield other becomes the source of the damage) Then it occurred to me... energy resistance isn't the same as DR, but I couldn't find any definitive ruling. Even if it does work, in actual practice, this might be tricky to pull off, as when your shielded ally gets ganked by a buttload of damage, you don't necessarily know if it's going to be an energy type you can ignore, and no Con score with instadeath at 0 HP doesn't exactly make you a damage-soaking tank.
This is true, but it was creative!


I'm only familiar with the first movie, as it was one of the first bootleg anime tapes I got my hands on back when scratchy second-hand copies of VHS was the only way to get anime on this side of the pond. (Ugh, now I feel old.) From what I can tell, the subsequent novels/manga don't involve nearly as much vampire-hunting as I thought they would. But I did provide a link to the entire movie, if you were unfamiliar with it. (I even found a script online... and I'm somewhat amused at how the English dub attempted to clean up some of the original Japanese dialog.)
Yeah, I'm going to have to watch that link. And don't worry about VHS making you feel old; I think I still have a bunch.


Congrats to all the contestants. Looking forward to the next round.
Likewise!


Woo. Good round all and congratulations to Darrin and Macabaret. I'm glad you enjoyed my Faux Shakespeare, Ponies, even if it didn't end up getting me any points. I had a lot of fun writing it. Also, with regard to the poison ring Dex check, I was using Ahmtel's Cha with items included, which does trivialize the check, but you're right that it's still in doubt without reliance on gear.
Yeah, the references, meter, and wit were all great! On the DEX check, I thought I factored in the CHA and items, but it was a relatively minor point.


Sure thing - Honourable mention to Aves Maria!
:elan: "I'm helping!"

[Thurbane]

In case anyone needed a link, next round is up: Black Blood Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?492923-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXXIX).

...I'm so happy for a "Monstrous" PrC, I'll even forego my usual distaste for an FR ingredient (I much prefer setting neutral ingredients).

[daremetoidareyo]

Thanks for the honourable mention everybody! Sure felt good to read those posts.

I had a whole plunging into the necromancer stronghold underground bit written up in my head, but then the bun in the oven came out to say hi, and dude, let me tell you, catching your child will make you clumsy for four weeks and clear up a long standing skin condition, so there is obviously some sort of steroidal rush associated with new fatherhood. Like all steroidal rushes, writing up the second half of a Dungeon and Dragons build totally gets backburnered... So I just sent what I had completed.

The build was valid with dread necromancer 3/human paragon 2 and the feats switched around, but writing out that option seemed tedious, and let's be honest: if any DM let any of that build fly, they'd let the extra skill point float, and the extra +2 charisma brought down the costs of the items that you'de need to become a 20th level celestial symbiont voltron.

[The Viscount]

Well done everyone, this round was filled with great ideas, definitely the builds to lose to. I had thought I had something in the bag with Care Bear, but I couldn't account for someone doing Emissary of Barachiel better than I did. Congrats to all our winners!

[OMG PONIES]

I had a whole plunging into the necromancer stronghold underground bit written up in my head, but then the bun in the oven came out to say hi, and dude, let me tell you, catching your child will make you clumsy for four weeks and clear up a long standing skin condition, so there is obviously some sort of steroidal rush associated with new fatherhood. Like all steroidal rushes, writing up the second half of a Dungeon and Dragons build totally gets backburnered... So I just sent what I had completed.

Congratulations!