Help me build a Paladin-esque character!

[Hogsy]

So, my character originally started off as a Crusader/Warblade but since then I've changed my focus a bit. This will be the first time I play a character who despises evil on a mechanical a very fundamental level. I thought of Crusader because in my eyes he's the better Paladin, also, I hate paladins. The second draft of the character is the idea of a Barbarian(Spirit Lion Totem and perhaps Whirling if I don't need Con, probably I won't.) who is found by the organization that is sending the party to its missions, the organization sees a potential in this particular barbarian.(Her name is Amber Nev'ard.) So she travels with a warlock who is good in heart, has a vast amount of knowledge but is a bit clumsy when it comes to social situations. He ignites in her a sense of good. A sense of duty. As the character progresses she'll let go of her instinct of survival and become a beacon of hope and goodness. Not because she'll be rewarded with gold, or because she'll gain the praise of the common folk, a king or even a God. But because she thinks that if you have power and you see evil happen right before your eyes and do nothing, you're no better than evil. She won't go on a killing spree to stop evil or for the sake of some greater good crap. She's an altruist who wants to do the right thing, but that doesn't mean she'll be naive. (Sense Motive+100) So she learns from this guy and takes up a few levels of Paladin(of Freedom) or Crusader. Level 6,8,10,12,14 and every level after that are going to be gestalt. Her race is going to be Maenad(Psionic race in Pathfinder). Her playstyle will be the best possible battlefield control you can get with mundane means. She'll be using a shield and sword, but for when things get tough she'll be animating her shield and pulling out a valorous halberd of vaunting(Really tough, as once per a handful of sessions and numerous encounters). She'll be a master of tripping and bull-rushing. With the Paladin levels I'll be getting the nice bonuses of the Paladin along with the Charging Smite class variant. With the Crusader levels I'll be getting ALL the White Raven maneuvers for RP reasons along with some others and finally the first-level Barbarian is for the sake of the RP transition from Survivalist to Valiant Champion of Good. The Lion Totem fluff is there for when I need to pounce to kill something fast so we don't die or something, cause the party will be filled with newbies. It's going to be an ability I use rarely. The sort of feats I'm thinking are obviously revoling shields. Touch AC to Shield and CMD, Improved Shield Bash, TWF. I'm also thinking of wielding my Shield in 2H for a period with improved shield bush and a bigger shield and the Lighten Weapon feat from PF. Some ToB feats and finally some feats that will work for the team like Intercept Charge, Step Up and Step Up and Strike. I want her to be a Defender. Maybe I'll get the ability that allows allies who are adjacent to me to use my smite bonus and the Savage Tactitian archetype so they'll all be enraged for a nice rage bonus if they wish to. Although I'm more inclined to go with Invulnerable Rager for a DR/- equal to 1/2 my levels which will go nice with the delayed damage pool of Crusader and all that AC. Remember that my DM is lenient and we're generally not stuck up in rules as a party. If the option creates an awesome visual image without breaking the game, it's good to go.

Taken from ExLibris Mortis:

Character
- Neutral/chaotic good
- Melee-focused
- Front-line BFC/defender
- 'Mundane'

Build Rules
- 3.PF, all sources open
- Levels 6-8-10-12-14+ are gestalt
- Limited homebrew okay, if sufficiently awesome

Character mechanics
- Maenad race
- Spirit Lion Totem barbarian 1, pounce to be used 'rarely'
- Paladin of Freedom or Crusader
- Sword-and-board and two-handed alternative to be used 'rarely'
- Trip and bull rush specialist
- Charging Smite, Whirling Frenzy
- Specialized in White Raven Maneuvers.
- Improved Shield Bash, TWF, some PF shield feats to add shield to CMD and touch
- Two-handed shield + Lighten Weapon to use at some point
- Some ToB feats probably.
- Intercept Charge, Step Up, Strike feats
- Savage Tactician, Invulnerable Rager, although I may change it up with Warlord(Witchdusk variant).

Group/Party
- 3 New players, 1 somewhat experienced.
- Not very strict about rules, again, if sufficiently awesome

[ExLibrisMortis]

Hmm... your post is a bit unorganized.

What I'm getting is:
Character
- Neutral/chaotic good
- Melee-focused
- Front-line BFC/defender
- 'Mundane'

Build Rules
- 3.PF, all sources open
- Levels 6-8-10-12-14+ are gestalt
- Limited homebrew okay, if sufficiently awesome

Character mechanics
- Maenad race
- Spirit Lion Totem barbarian 1, pounce to be used 'rarely'
- Paladin of Freedom or Crusader
- Sword-and-board and two-handed alternative to be used 'rarely'
- Trip and bull rush specialist
- Charging Smite, Whirling Frenzy
- White Raven Maneuvers, all of them (note: you don't have enough maneuvers to do this)
- Improved Shield Bash, TWF, some PF shield feats to add shield to CMD and touch
- Two-handed shield + Lighten Weapon to use 'for a time'
- Some ToB feats
- Intercept Charge, Step Up, Strike feats
- Savage Tactician, Invulnerable Rager

Group/Party
- Many new players
- Not very strict about rules, again, if sufficiently awesome

I hope I got that right. It would be useful to know what level you are starting at, and what kind of power level you're playing at (although I'm guessing it's not going to be too high, with many new players).

Right off the bat, I can tell you you're drowning in options. You are trying to add every awesome ability and mechanic to one character. That is fine, but try to focus on a few things you really want to be good at.

In addition, try to separate what your character's identity, in-universe, from the classes and abilities on your character sheet.

In 3.5, my suggestion would be to play a Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin of Freedom 2/Ordained Champion of Freedom (CG variant) 5/Ruby Knight Vindicator of Freedom (CG variant) 7, using the even gestalt levels to keep your casting up to par. It's not technically mundane, but you can use the spells to fuel some feats instead.

[Sian]

Any chance that you could modify your text so it aren't a wall of text knocking out teeth?

[Hogsy]

Hmm... your post is a bit unorganized.

What I'm getting is:
Character
- Neutral/chaotic good
- Melee-focused
- Front-line BFC/defender
- 'Mundane'

Build Rules
- 3.PF, all sources open
- Levels 6-8-10-12-14+ are gestalt
- Limited homebrew okay, if sufficiently awesome

Character mechanics
- Maenad race
- Spirit Lion Totem barbarian 1, pounce to be used 'rarely'
- Paladin of Freedom or Crusader
- Sword-and-board and two-handed alternative to be used 'rarely'
- Trip and bull rush specialist
- Charging Smite, Whirling Frenzy
- White Raven Maneuvers, all of them (note: you don't have enough maneuvers to do this)
- Improved Shield Bash, TWF, some PF shield feats to add shield to CMD and touch
- Two-handed shield + Lighten Weapon to use 'for a time'
- Some ToB feats
- Intercept Charge, Step Up, Strike feats
- Savage Tactician, Invulnerable Rager

Group/Party
- Many new players
- Not very strict about rules, again, if sufficiently awesome

I hope I got that right. It would be useful to know what level you are starting at, and what kind of power level you're playing at (although I'm guessing it's not going to be too high, with many new players).

Right off the bat, I can tell you you're drowning in options. You are trying to add every awesome ability and mechanic to one character. That is fine, but try to focus on a few things you really want to be good at.

In addition, try to separate what your character's identity, in-universe, from the classes and abilities on your character sheet.

In 3.5, my suggestion would be to play a Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Prestige Paladin of Freedom 2/Ordained Champion of Freedom (CG variant) 5/Ruby Knight Vindicator of Freedom (CG variant) 7, using the even gestalt levels to keep your casting up to par. It's not technically mundane, but you can use the spells to fuel some feats instead.

I don't really feel like playing a Cleric, it's not my kind of style. The only reason I'm picking the barbarian first level is for the sake of the character itself. I want the transition between a barbaric survivalist and an altruistic champion of good to be played out and shown to the rest of the party. While I am going to dip Paladin(Must be level 5 for the Charging Smite ability) I want for my character to give up on gods and their worship and instead find the same kind of power from within by gaining levels in Crusader. I want my character's abilities to represent the way I'm going to play her and her identity.

I guess to answer your first sentence, what she's going to specialize in is defending her party through combat maneuvers and a few other shenanigans with her shield. Being a leader in battle through the White Raven discipline and the Warlord class(Witchdusk setting) and dealing the just the right amount of damage that my teammates lack. So if they don't lack a lot of damage, she won't deal a lot of damage. I wish to play a character that I will enjoy from an RP perspective while having the mechanics available to enable the new players to feel awesome and draw out their RP side. I think that a barbarian turned paladin is exactly what I want to do, and I'll probably drop all spellcasting available to my character for something else, perhaps bonus feats.

The build I have in mind is about shield feats, Double Hit, Headlong Rush along with Karmic Strike/Robilar's Gambit, some teamwork feats, maybe a feat for an extra smite if I have feats to spare. If I do decide to play with a large shield I'll probably go for Lighten Weapon and Divine Shield as well.

[Hogsy]

Any chance that you could modify your text so it aren't a wall of text knocking out teeth?


Sorry about that.

[Andezzar]

Thanks, ExLibrisMortis, for working through that wall of text. I didn't.



- 'Mundane'Unless you do a houserule of combining the paladin of freedom with the paladin without spellcasting, you can't have a completely mundane paladin.


- Levels 6-8-10-12-14+ are gestaltWhat does that mean? Normally you either play gestalt for all levels or you don't.


- Spirit Lion Totem barbarian 1, pounce to be used 'rarely'What does rarely pouncing mean? If you are 10+ ft away from an enemy there is little reason not to pounce.


- Sword-and-board and two-handed alternative to be used 'rarely'Again, why would you limit your use of a two-handed weapon (or a one-handed weapon used with two hands)? Either way, you can just drop the shield anytime and get the bonuses of THF, even with a one-handed weapon. Once you have the money, a two-handed weapon and an animated shield is a good investment.


- Trip and bull rush specialisttake two levels of barbarian and get the wolf totem ACF as well. Then get all the fun stuff for shock trooper etc.

- Charging Smite, Whirling FrenzyShock trooper, leap attack and whirling frenzy should be enough to kill anything CR appropriate. Plus it works all day long

- Specialized in White Raven Maneuvers.The Leading the Charge stance is a nice bonus to the charge.


Group/Party
- 3 New players, 1 somewhat experienced.
- Not very strict about rules, again, if sufficiently awesomeCan you say anything about what they want to do?

[Hogsy]

Thanks, ExLibrisMortis, for working through that wall of text. I didn't.

Unless you do a houserule of combining the paladin of freedom with the paladin without spellcasting, you can't have a completely mundane paladin.

What does that mean? Normally you either play gestalt for all levels or you don't.

What does rarely pouncing mean? If you are 10+ ft away from an enemy there is little reason not to pounce.

Again, why would you limit your use of a two-handed weapon (or a one-handed weapon used with two hands)? Either way, you can just drop the shield anytime and get the bonuses of THF, even with a one-handed weapon. Once you have the money, a two-handed weapon and an animated shield is a good investment.

take two levels of barbarian and get the wolf totem ACF as well. Then get all the fun stuff for shock trooper etc.
Shock trooper, leap attack and whirling frenzy should be enough to kill anything CR appropriate. Plus it works all day long
The Leading the Charge stance is a nice bonus to the charge.

Can you say anything about what they want to do?


It means that we'll gain a level on a second class at levels 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 and each level after that. I don't want to play an Ubercharger. I picked pounce up as an alternative in case the rest of the party(A whisperknife rogue, a dragonclaw adept and the 3rd PC's class is unknown.) won't deal enough damage. Otherwise I'm only going to use it when things get rough, the same with the animated shield and 2h combo. I want to limit the use of a 2h weapon because I want to play a sword & board character, using a 2h weapon only when the rage gets the better of her. Also, the idea of using a large shield as a 2h weapon and charging with it sounds extremely awesome to me. I don't want to deal a ton of damage and kill everyone CR appropriate, otherwise I'd have done it already. The free Improved Trip does sound nice, I'll pick that up.

I was more worried about the way I should go about leveling my character. Since we'll be starting at lvl1, her first two levels are going to be Barbarian so I can play through the transition of barbarian to paladin. The other classes I want to fit into this character are Warlord(Witchdusk Setting), Crusader and Paladin(of Freedom) 5(Max). Afterwards, I'll be picking up levels in Crusader and Warlord(whose initiator's level stacks as long as maneuvers are considered) for a hefty amount of nice passive and active abilities.

I'm considering the leveling order to be something like this.
Barb 1,2 > Pally 3, 4, 5 , 6 & Warlord 6 > Pally 7(Last level) > Warlord 8 & Crusader 8 picking up one level of Crusader on every gestalt level and later on using the Gestalt to enter a Prestige Class or simply level up Crusader as much as possible.