Magic fades away: What would be the logical steps?

[Jon_Dahl]

Let's imagine that all magic would fade away. The reason would be a mad and evil (over)deity that could do that unchecked, even if everyone knew that (s)he's doing it. The magic would fade gradually over a decade, but for simplicity's sake there would be phases. You can choose 3 to 10 phases... Or more, if you want. But in any case, there would be phases. What "magic fades away" actually means is something I will leave up to you. You can choose the exact meaning and consequences for yourself. All in all, the exact wording is that magic fades away in 10 years.

I think the question is impossible to answer, even partially, but we have many smart people here, so it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Gallowglass]

Let's imagine that all magic would fade away. The reason would be a mad and evil (over)deity that could do that unchecked, even if everyone knew that (s)he's doing it. The magic would fade gradually over a decade, but for simplicity's sake there would be phases. You can choose 3 to 10 phases... Or more, if you want. But in any case, there would be phases. What "magic fades away" actually means is something I will leave up to you. You can choose the exact meaning and consequences for yourself. All in all, the exact wording is that magic fades away in 10 years.

I think the question is impossible to answer, even partially, but we have many smart people here, so it doesn't hurt to ask.

Well, this is a very subjective scenario so no answer is going to be incorrect.

If I was GMing this what would I do?

--you specifically want it to happen over 10 years
--you dont' specific arcane or divine so I would say you mean both

So, from day one of pronouncement I would have all epic level spellcasting and all 9th level spells just stop. All of them. Any any SLAs or SUs that key off of a 9th level spell would stop. And all magic items that tie to a 9th level spell would lose that part of its power. So that ring of freedom of movement? stops. That teleport circle network? stops. Permagates? Stop.

There would be immediate panic on the highest level of power. archwizards and popes and dragonkings would simultaneously lose the most powerful of their toolset. If this world has high level magical infrastructure like teleport networks, they all stop as well. There would be some who take advantage of this. Certain, previously untouchable god-lings would be usurped by those underneath them. But that would quickly level out.

Then they will go through a period of trying to "fix" the problem. All the traditional things will be tried. Even though GATE no longer works, they will find other ways to bring in power from outplane to try and help this happen and some will travel to other planes to look for solutions.

That's when they will learn that the problem is only in the one prime material plane, BUT, anyone from that plane who steps out still can't access the lost power and anyone who they port in to the plane lose their 9th level and epic abilities. Permanently, even after they leave.

The other-planar powers will QUICKLY move to protect themselves from being called to the plane and will cordon off the plane and lock it down to keep this insidious and unknown plague from spreading. By the end of year one a few of the most powerful have managed to get out, taking their stuff with them, but now the plane is locked down by powers outside the plane who, now, far outstrip the power of any within the plane.

The local clerics are told by their gods that the gods have no idea why this is happening and no way of fixing it. One of two things happens when the plane gets locked away. Either ALL divine magic stops because the gods can no longer pass power through the planar locks, or else it continues at a lessened rate.

Every year over the next 9 years another level of power fades away. level 8 spells in year 2, level 7 spells in year 3, and so on. The magic items and SLAs and SUs tied to the magic that is lost continue to stop functioning as well.

Some schools of magic fail even faster. If the planar lock didn't do it in year one, then by now the elemental races figure out how to keep themselves from being summoned by druids and summoners and the like in this plane so they don't lose their powers when they arrive. Conjuration will fade fastest of all.

By year 4, the 6th level casters like summoners start feeling the burn. By year 6 even paladins and rangers are losing their highest level spells (4th level)

By year 10 only the weakest 0th level cantrips and orisons still function. The world has fundamentally changed. Religions have completely failed, the once loyal adherents abandoning their gods as their gods have abandoned them. Wizards and sorcerers have been hunted to oblivion, blamed for the plague and no longer able to defend themselves. Dragons have been tamed by Giants who are now more powerful than the once might lizard gods. Martials have risen to be the most powerful, on top of the heap, and most kingdoms have rearranged around rulers that are high level fighters or ToB/PoW martials. Elves have retreated into the deep woods, only to find themselves and the fae wiped out by orc, gnolls and goblins all of whom can now easily kill the suddenly powerless forest-kin. Sadly for the new conquerers, most of the treasure they take from the elves is now worthless trash. Mithril no longer has its innate strength. Elven chain is now as flimsy as cloth.

People were worried about the undead until 3rd level spells disappeared, taking animate dead with it and most of the undead just turned into bodies. That was a lucky break or else this would've turned into the walking dead.

[Duke of Urrel]

Look up the description of the Outland in the Manual of the Planes. All spellcasting ability gets progressively more and more suppressed the closer you get to the Spire at the center of the Outland. This could be a model for a gradual weakening of magic, at least as it pertains to spells.

[frogglesmash]

Are psions, incarnates, truenamers, binders, etc. also losing their abilities or is it just spellcasters?

[Gallowglass]

In my scenario, it would be all of them.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Taking magic in the broadest sense, including everything that is suppressed in an antimagic field ((Sp) and (Su)), and everyting that is called 'magic' (invoke magic, salient divine abilities), the mad overdeity would also lose their powers, along with every other deity (assuming the overdeity is the most powerful). This leads to a pretty mundane universe, where a lot of crazy (Ex) stuff still works, even planar travel (via planar rifts), but a lot of tricks would no longer work.

I imagine you'd have to go ask the Lady of Pain to re-seed the multiverse with magic?

[Clistenes]

Well, if magic starts to weaken and spells gradually become impossible to cast, starting from Epic Spells, then ninth level spells, followed by eight level spells... etc., all the way down, I think that by the time level eight spells become impossible to cast, all arcane casters who can would escape the Prime Material Plane while they still can cast Plane Shift.

Clerics would stick for some time, since Plane Shift is fifth level for them. However, by the time sixth level spells are out, the gods would call their priests to the Planes in order to avoid the loss of their investment.

There would be political upheavals when the balance of power gets disturbed and many people who rely on arcane or divine magic to stay in power loses it.

Powerful monsters would have some good times, hunting humans without fear of spells or magical weapons, but many of them (undead, dragons, elementals...) would eventually die when their abnormal biology becomes unsustainable due to lack of magic.

The most natural monsters would thrive and become a great threat to Humanity.

Elves couldn't survive as a civilized people without magic. Sorry folks, but without magic you are down to a life of subsistance as Paleolithic hunters-gatherers! Time to learn to farm and mine. You don't have time to sing and prance around anymore!.

Gnomes would have it hard; they rely a lot on their arcane ability to survive. Halflings would do a bit better, since they are used to rely on stealth and skill, but their survival would depend on the protection of human walls and armies (much like in the "normal" D&D world).

Dwarves who live next to human communities could do well: Their cities are unconquerable without magic, and they are good warriors. They would have to adapt their technology to the lack of magic (they probably use a lot of stuff like Continual Flames for mining). They would have to trade with the humans to get food.
Those dwarves who lived far from humans would have it harder: It would be hard to keep the supply lines in a world overrun by monsters and brigands, so they would have to learn to grow their own crops.

Underdark species would go extinct, period. Most life couldn't survive down there in a natural world.

[Odin's Eyepatch]

I recently read a book called Arcanum (forgot the author), which presented a scenario where magic existed during the Dark Ages (in our world), and was harnessed by a small kingdom. The "magical kingdom", situated in the Alps, then discovers one day that magic is fading, and the magic-dependent kingdom has to find ways to deal with all sorts of challenges posed by the absence of magic.

Interestingly, the storyline introduced the idea that even magical beasts and other races (such as dwarves and giants) were becoming unmagical: the unicorns disappeared; the giants shrunk; the dwarves grew taller, and became claustrophobic. Not that I'm suggesting that this would happen in this situation, but meh, it's an interesting concept.

Regardless. I'm going to present an alternate scenario: Magic disappears based on the caster level of the user. Magic becomes more difficult to "harness", and only the most powerful mages (and the gods themselves) are able to find the strength to cast their spells (at least for a time).


The first signs would be barely recognised and understood. In the first few months, there is a decrease in apprentices and new students in the magic arts. Students would fail to pass their initiations. A couple of first level casters would notice that they have a difficulty casting their spells correctly. The spells fizzle out, and are generally weaker. It could be attributed to a passing phase, or stress, or anything mundane.

Eventually, the problem would become too obvious. The whisperings would suddenly turn into widespread panic, spreading across the world, as the news hits everyone: Magic is fading. In the first year alone there would be a massive reduction in spellcasters. Panic would settle in, the lower level casters (1-3 level) would despair as they watched their magic disappear in front of their eyes. The general populace, if they dependent on minor spells or a magical infrastructure, would look on fearfully, as they start losing services that they once took for granted. All would turn their eyes towards the higher level casters, calling them to find a cure to their plight.

These higher level casters would be scurrying around as fast as possible to research this condition, frightened of the day when they themselves would lose their importance. They would demand huge amounts of resources to carry out their research, and the population would give it to them (willingly or not)

Slowly, over the years, as magic becomes rarer, the power of the remaining spellcasters becomes greater and greater. Cults would be set up around the most powerful mages. Soon, they are more important than Kings, who become mere puppets, subject to the whims and demands of the epic casters. After 8-9 years, most mages have either resigned themselves to the inevitable, or have devised “cures”, or protective spells, that they believe will allow them to retain their powers. These would stop at nothing to keep their magic, and will wage war against each other in an effort to steal the others “cure”.

Soon, they too will pass away. The Age of Magic will end in a despairing whimper.

For the general population, things would be different. They would be a decrease in religion and belief of the Gods, as the clerics are unable to manifest their power. Soon, the most magical beings would weaken and fade away. Planar travel will end. Even the gods would lose their might (though maybe not their divinity).

Other people, however, would be clever enough to prepare for the end of magic, and would reject the worshipping of the remaining casters. These will organise workmen, crafters, and others, to research ways to replace magic. Where they succeed, there will create a nuclei of research and science that will then spring forth, giving rise to the new technological empires of tomorrow. Where they fail, the countries will fade into a long dark age, where they are harried by monsters, their trade limited, and their development stymied.

[Gildedragon]

Larry Niven has a series of stories that dealt with this "The Magic Goes Away"

Within D&D: slowly devices are discovered if they weren't already, if they were then these tinkers quickly take over

[Nibbens]

These higher level casters would be scurrying around as fast as possible to research this condition, frightened of the day when they themselves would lose their importance. They would demand huge amounts of resources to carry out their research, and the population would give it to them (willingly or not)

Okay, it's this piece here that interests me the most. And will also work with Gallowglass' description (albeit with lower level mages than with Odin's Eyepatch's).

There are part of me who'd like to see the frantic research of those who'd invested years and years and years of painstaking time and study just vanish into thin air. The resulting paranoia, fear and absolute deject horror of those going through it could (and should) give rise to many psychological conditions that would pop up among the remaining mages. The conditions would give rise to stigmas, etc among the magical community and could eventually lead to lynch-mob style executions of those remaining mages. Now, sure mages are naturally paranoid and have contingencies for their contingencies, but the mobs will get one or two of them - which in turn could spur more paranoia and psychosis in the surviving mages.

This self replicating cycle could possibly do the mages in before magic goes out entirely. Which could make for interesting d&d games/stories - a budding mage in the times after the great "mage hunt" discovering that magic is not entirely dead yet. etc etc.

[Tvtyrant]

This is what I did for an old E6 campaign:

Phase 1: Magic is produced by combining the influence of the gods Thoth and Seshat, and is at the peak of its power. The world is dominated by high level casters who spend inordinate amounts of effort assassinating each other and avoiding counter assassination. Max level is 20.

Phase 2: Thoth is slain by Seshat, 9th level spells immediately disappear. Magic items that use high level magic has a 25% chance of continuing to function. Max level is now 16 (max spell is 8th now).

Phase 3: Seshat uses the combined powers of herself and Thoth to begin subjugating other gods. Spells drop to level 7, and the world is in a full panic. Mages begin to make as many magical items as they can in anticipation of losing their powers. Thousands of others flee to other planes of reality or take flight out of the system on Spelljammers, keeping their powers by adapting to new worlds.

Phase 4: Seshat's conquest continues, and she absorbs more and more of the power remaining in the world. The power level now drops to fourth level spells (level 8 characters). Formerly powerful mages find themselves reliant on automatons and undead to survive as the world's population begins committing magocide.

Phase 5: Seshat is slain by an alliance of the remaining gods, and all magic disappears for 100 years. The world restructures itself around new churches and kingdoms, society and warfare changes dramatically. A fraction of magic items still function, and these are treated as artifacts. Kingdoms and churches ban their private ownership and begin forcibly collecting them, inquisitions set in.

Phase 6: Thoth and Seshat are reincarnated as babies. Magic returns to the world, but slowly. At first only cantrips are possible, then decades later first level spells are discovered, and nearly a century later it has reached third level spells. Inquisitors from the formerly dominate religions and kingdoms run around trying to control or kill the new mages, using magic items to fight magic.

[mabriss lethe]

I'd take a different route: I wouldn't eliminate access to magic, but simply put more hurdles between attempts and success. (that way particularly cunning and adept casters could still pull off magic, but it would be a labor intensive process)

Stage 1: Limit Epic Magic. (due to its very rarity, it might take some time for anyone aside from a select few to even realize that something is awry) It's not an all-at-once thing. Non-epic magic works normally. Existing epic magic continues to function for as long as its duration would allow, but newly epic spells grow progressively harder to cast, incurring higher and higher penalties to the skill rolls. (and consequently making epic magic a larger and more involved process. (Say a cumulative +20 to the difficulty of skill rolls for Epic Spells for every year.)

Stage 2: Impeded Magic: At this point pretty much every spellcaster that uses spells/powers/SLAs/PLAs has figured out that something is wrong. To cast any spell, the mage has to make a caster level check with an increasingly higher penalty as time goes on. Supernatural abilities and Magic items remain fully functional

Stage 3: Unstable Magic: Weird ebbs and surges of power start taking flaring up. Zones of Limited, Enhanced, Dead, and Wild Magic sweep through areas in unpredictable patterns, usually occurring during freakishly powerful storms and lingering for 1d4+X days before returning to normal. (Magic cast inside these areas isn't impeded, but follows the new rules for its duration.)

Stage 4: The New Balance: The freakish weather and constantly shifting magic traits subsides. The storms carrying the shifting magic traits are less frequent and linger only for a day or two, but in their wake are small areas (a few square miles at most, and fairly distant from each other) that are permanently damaged, gaining one of the Magic traits from Stage 3.

Stage 5: Dwindling Magic: The storms have completely subsided. The stable zones of limited and dead magic begin to grow exponentially while the zones of wild and enhanced magic start to shrink. Even withing the zones, the impeded trait still applies.

Stage 6: Dying Magic: Dead magic zones have eaten away at most of the plane. Previously limited zones slowly become Dead as well. Wild and Enhanced zones have shrunk to mere shadows, maybe taking up a single valley, ruin, or system of caves and slowly transition to areas of normal, if still impeded magic.

Stage 7: The Death of Magic. The entire plane exists in a Dead magic zone except for those few pockets in out of the way places. Each of them remain impeded and gain the Limited trait as well. Those few pockets might slowly weaken as more and more limitations pile up on them, until they too become dead, or they may persist for centuries, fading into legend and becoming highly coveted and sought after places where miracles are still possible in an increasingly mundane world for those few who know to look for them.

[Crake]

Well, this is a very subjective scenario so no answer is going to be incorrect.

If I was GMing this what would I do?

--you specifically want it to happen over 10 years
--you dont' specific arcane or divine so I would say you mean both

So, from day one of pronouncement I would have all epic level spellcasting and all 9th level spells just stop. All of them. Any any SLAs or SUs that key off of a 9th level spell would stop. And all magic items that tie to a 9th level spell would lose that part of its power. So that ring of freedom of movement? stops. That teleport circle network? stops. Permagates? Stop.

There would be immediate panic on the highest level of power. archwizards and popes and dragonkings would simultaneously lose the most powerful of their toolset. If this world has high level magical infrastructure like teleport networks, they all stop as well. There would be some who take advantage of this. Certain, previously untouchable god-lings would be usurped by those underneath them. But that would quickly level out.

Then they will go through a period of trying to "fix" the problem. All the traditional things will be tried. Even though GATE no longer works, they will find other ways to bring in power from outplane to try and help this happen and some will travel to other planes to look for solutions.

That's when they will learn that the problem is only in the one prime material plane, BUT, anyone from that plane who steps out still can't access the lost power and anyone who they port in to the plane lose their 9th level and epic abilities. Permanently, even after they leave.

The other-planar powers will QUICKLY move to protect themselves from being called to the plane and will cordon off the plane and lock it down to keep this insidious and unknown plague from spreading. By the end of year one a few of the most powerful have managed to get out, taking their stuff with them, but now the plane is locked down by powers outside the plane who, now, far outstrip the power of any within the plane.

The local clerics are told by their gods that the gods have no idea why this is happening and no way of fixing it. One of two things happens when the plane gets locked away. Either ALL divine magic stops because the gods can no longer pass power through the planar locks, or else it continues at a lessened rate.

Every year over the next 9 years another level of power fades away. level 8 spells in year 2, level 7 spells in year 3, and so on. The magic items and SLAs and SUs tied to the magic that is lost continue to stop functioning as well.

Some schools of magic fail even faster. If the planar lock didn't do it in year one, then by now the elemental races figure out how to keep themselves from being summoned by druids and summoners and the like in this plane so they don't lose their powers when they arrive. Conjuration will fade fastest of all.

By year 4, the 6th level casters like summoners start feeling the burn. By year 6 even paladins and rangers are losing their highest level spells (4th level)

By year 10 only the weakest 0th level cantrips and orisons still function. The world has fundamentally changed. Religions have completely failed, the once loyal adherents abandoning their gods as their gods have abandoned them. Wizards and sorcerers have been hunted to oblivion, blamed for the plague and no longer able to defend themselves. Dragons have been tamed by Giants who are now more powerful than the once might lizard gods. Martials have risen to be the most powerful, on top of the heap, and most kingdoms have rearranged around rulers that are high level fighters or ToB/PoW martials. Elves have retreated into the deep woods, only to find themselves and the fae wiped out by orc, gnolls and goblins all of whom can now easily kill the suddenly powerless forest-kin. Sadly for the new conquerers, most of the treasure they take from the elves is now worthless trash. Mithril no longer has its innate strength. Elven chain is now as flimsy as cloth.

People were worried about the undead until 3rd level spells disappeared, taking animate dead with it and most of the undead just turned into bodies. That was a lucky break or else this would've turned into the walking dead.

I would do something like this, but have magic become harder to use at the same time, so instead of just abolishing epic/9th to begin with, all lower level spells would then move up a spell slot, so everyone is affected, and by the end, only the most powerful wizards are able to cast cantrips. I would probably also actually just move all spells up a slot rather than abolishing them, so a wizard with 10th level spell slots (which is possible in epic) would be able to cast 9th level spells to begin with, by using his 10th level slots. Epic magic i would just drop though, because any spellcraft DC increase would be too easy to mitigate. That way, particularly powerful wizards would still be capable of casting high level magic, for a while anyway.

[Yahzi]

Let's imagine that all magic would fade away.
After 10 years, everyone would rebuild their characters in GURPS, without magic, and you'd be playing Historical Re-enactment.

Which admittedly could be really cool.

[khadgar567]

Let's imagine that all magic would fade away. The reason would be a mad and evil (over)deity that could do that unchecked, even if everyone knew that (s)he's doing it. The magic would fade gradually over a decade, but for simplicity's sake there would be phases. You can choose 3 to 10 phases... Or more, if you want. But in any case, there would be phases. What "magic fades away" actually means is something I will leave up to you. You can choose the exact meaning and consequences for yourself. All in all, the exact wording is that magic fades away in 10 years.

I think the question is impossible to answer, even partially, but we have many smart people here, so it doesn't hurt to ask.
empathizes on bolded part so there is still one clergy has access their powers so hello mad god cedric verse
we all know lot of people gonna lose their magic exept gods own followers so probably they start conquering every thing

[Vizzerdrix]

Pray to Gond for some accelerated tech advancement and hope that someone finds a way into Lantan Artificer without needing the casting, and ways to expand the device list while cutting down the device weight.


Also shapesand. A few metric tons of the stuff. Wis just became everyones favorite stat.