Fighter 3/Warlock 17 Build

[Erbrand]

I'm looking for feedback/improvements on some thoughts I had for a Fighter Bladelock. I'm looking for playability/strength across all levels, probably starting at level 3. The idea is a heavily armored, two handed weapon fighter who can go into melee and deal a lot of damage via Attacks and spells like Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke, while still having good ranged/control options.

I'm looking for feedback regarding my spell/invocation selection and whether I should rush the 5 levels of Warlock for extra attack earlier.

Race: Tiefling
Class Archetype: Fiend. Blade.
Standard Array:
Str: 15
Dex: 8
Con: 13
Int: 10 (11)
Wis: 12
Cha: 14 (16)

 
Fighter 1: Great Weapon Fighter/Defense, Second Wind Racial Cantrip: Thaumaturgy
Fighter 2: Action Surge
Fighter 3: Battlemaster: Precision, Disarming Attack, Trip Attack. Artisan Tools (smiths for weapons?) Racial Spell: Hellish Rebuke (2nd level)
Fighter 3/Warlock 1: Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Minor Illusion. Spells: Armor of Agathys, Hex. Killing something gives me temp HP equal to Cha+ Warlock Level
Fighter 3/Warlock 2: Racial Spell: Darkness. Spells: Command. Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Devil’s Sight
Fighter 3/Warlock 3: Spells: Drop Command, Take Darkness, Mirror Image
Fighter 3/Warlock 4: ASI: Str+1, Con+1 Cantrips: Friends. Spells: Invisibility
Fighter 3/Warlock 5: Spells: Fireball Invocations: Thirsting Blade
Fighter 3/Warlock 6: Spells: Counterspell. Dark One’s Own Luck: Plus 1d10 to an ability check or saving throw 1/short.
Fighter 3/Warlock 7: Spells: Banishment. Invocations: Repelling Blast
Fighter 3/Warlock 8: ASI: Str+2/GWM Spells: Fly
Fighter 3/Warlock 9: Spells: Dimension Door Invocations: Sculptor of Flesh (Polymorph)
Fighter 3/Warlock 10: Cantrips: Green Flame Blade?. Fiendish Resistance: Resist one damage type that you choose after a short rest. Magic/silver weapons ignore this resistance.
Fighter 3/Warlock 11: Spells: Stinking Cloud. Arcanum (6): Investiture of Wind/Mass Suggestion
Fighter 3/Warlock 12: ASI: Cha+2 Invocation: Lifedrinker (+Cha to weapon damage)
Fighter 3/Warlock 13: Spells: Hold Monster Arcanum (7): Forcecage
Fighter 3/Warlock 14: Hurl Through Hell: Hit a creature, they disappear and reappear at the end of my next turn taking 10d10 psychic damage.
Fighter 3/Warlock 15: Spells: Hallucinatory Terrain Invocations: Master of Myriad Forms Arcanum (8): Power Word Stun
Fighter 3/Warlock 16: ASI: Cha +2
Fighter 3/Warlock 17: Spells: Dispel Magic? Arcanum (9): True Polymorph

[Gastronomie]

I would say first level fighter for proficiency in CON saves. Also, you don't get proficiency in Heavy Armor if you don't start as Fighter.

You're underestimating the viability of Command, don't forget it works on multiple opponents at the same time if cast using higher-level slots. And, I strongly advice you take Foresight over True Polymorph, it's nuts with Great Weapon Master.

Going Champion isn't a bad idea with STR Bladelocks too. Great Weapon Master, advantage via Darkness, and Improved Critical work together perfectly. 19% of your attacks will land Criticals, you know.

Oh, and I would swap out Minor Illusion for Green-Flame Blade at Warlock level 1. This is not because Minor Illusion is bad - rather because it is so good that almost every caster in your team is guranteed to have it, and you wouldn't necessarily need it for yourself (if you think up a creative way of using it, ask the Wizard or Sorcerer or Bard or whatever if he can do it for you).

Power-gaming wise you should dump INT and get your CON higher but this isn't a necessity, especially if it costs you the image of the character you have in mind.

EDIT: You don't have Great Weapon Master!? It's the whole point of Bladelocks! Hurry! Go get it!!

Consider EvilAnagram's guide to Warlocks. Has a lot of information about Warlocks, especially spells. For instance, you don't have Hold Person, which is encounter-crippling when cast at high levels.

[bid]

Start Str14 / Con 14, get your first ASI asap. Also Int10 / Wis13 to allow for resilient (Wis) if you need it later.

fighter 1 = defense
fighter 1 / bladelock 4 = Str+2

Wait for level 5 to wear plate (not that you'll have the gold much sooner). Delay battlemaster, your first ASI and extra attack are more important.

GWM doesn't work well with hex/lifedrinker, go PAM or cap Str first.

You need your 2-3 slots for self-buffs, leave counterspell to true casters.

[Erbrand]

You don't have Great Weapon Master!? It's the whole point of Bladelocks! Hurry! Go get it!!



I was really stuck on when to take GWM. I have it slashed in for the Str +2 at level 11. Should I take it earlier and level out those odd scores that I adjusted at level 7 later? I might also look into how much smoother point buy could make this. I used standard array for simplicity's sake.

I was thinking about the whole Dex vs Int idea, and you hit it on the head that I'd rather have an Int focus for the personality I had in mind. Furthermore, besides the sad negative initiative, there are more Int skills that a heavy armor warlock would care about than Dex skills.

In regards to Command and Hold Person, I was slightly shying away from them because my Cha was only 16 for a while due to my MAD and late ASI, so my Spell DC wouldn't be too high. However, with your points I'll definitely reconsider taking those earlier. Somewhere in my planning I thought of but then neglected to value more the scaling power of Hold Person, but it does sound pretty good now that I think more. What would you recommend I drop in favor of those spells? Thanks for the feedback!

[Erbrand]

Start Str14 / Con 14, get your first ASI asap. Also Int10 / Wis13 to allow for resilient (Wis) if you need it later.

fighter 1 = defense
fighter 1 / bladelock 4 = Str+2

Should I take PAM/GWM at level 4, or prioritize the strength? Using point buy I'll definitely do Str and Con at 14, but I don't know if there's room in this build for Resilient (Wis) (As nice as it would be)


Wait for level 5 to wear plate (not that you'll have the gold much sooner). Delay battlemaster, your first ASI and extra attack are more important.

GWM doesn't work well with hex/lifedrinker, go PAM or cap Str first.

My level progression would have to be Fighter 1/Warlock 5/ Fighter 2. Delaying extra attack until 6 is better than 8, but I was kind of thinking that if I get action surge at 2 (instead of 7 as it would be here) it slightly makes up for it. How would you balance the level of Extra Attack vs the level of Action surge? Also I do like the idea of PAM to get more attacks, but GWM is so nice . . .


You need your 2-3 slots for self-buffs, leave counterspell to true casters.
Good point. I'll take party composition into account for this and spells like Minor Illusion, as Gastronomie suggested.

[Gastronomie]

GWM doesn't work well with hex/lifedrinker, go PAM or cap Str first.This is probably sorta true if your character starts at level 13 or higher AND you aren't much interested in Darkness, but not necesarrily if you start a low level or like the idea of spamming Darkness. Most Bladelock builds I have seen use Darkness as one of their main weapons.

Casting Darkness on your own pact weapon while you have the Devil's Sight invocation allows you to make all of your attacks with advantage AND bestow disadvantage on all attacks against you. And with advantage on all of your attacks, the "-5 to attack rolls, +10 damage" part of the Great Weapon Master can work wonderfully well. (Sorta unrelated, but when rating Darkness, you should also note that a majority of powerful spells require you to be able to see the target, meaning that if you go next to an enemy caster and get him into the dark orb, you can cripple him even worse than it seems on first glance.)

As for Eldritch Invocations, I would get Agonizing Blast and Fiendish Vigor at Warlock level 2, and at level 3, swap out the Agonizing Blast for Devil's Sight. At level 5 I will obviously add Thirsting Blade, and at level 7 Sculptor of Flesh. From level 9 and then on, I dunno, feel free to take whatever you want. Just, the invocations that give you the ability to cast spells... most of them are pretty damn bad.
Apart from the obvious Lifedrinker, and the Agonizing+Repelling Blasts which can be a useful backup option, stuff like Beguiling Influence, Mask of Many Faces, Misty Visions, and Witch Sight can help you in certain situations, so feel free to choose whatever fits your character. Fiendish Vigor can be dropped at higher levels, especially past when you have level 4 or 5 slots - which is when Armor of Agathys starts to get really good.

On first glance, Fiendish Vigor may seem sorta bad for Fiendlocks with their level 1 ability, but this is not the case, at least in my opinion. Since you can cast False Life any number of times, Fiendish Vigor means that you basically get to gain 8 temporary HP at the start of every battle, which is quite wonderful for a frontline warrior - especially one with mediocre hit dice of d8s.

[Socratov]

if youa re going to take more then 1 lvl of fighter, go for 4 and take the ASI. this nets you one extra ASI at the loss of your arcanum (though the loss of your 9th lvl spell 1.day is steep, you can pick aither a better stat if you can place it, or you can pick a feat you could use every day. You could even get magic initiate to expand your spells, which, if you take warlock spells, you can upcast using your normal slots, trading 1/day 9th for 3 options you can use as much as the rest of your features, and the bonus is, you get it way earlier (unless you start playing at 20th) in your warlock career, which make it more useful.

[Gastronomie]

if youa re going to take more then 1 lvl of fighter, go for 4 and take the ASI. this nets you one extra ASI at the loss of your arcanum (though the loss of your 9th lvl spell 1.day is steep, you can pick aither a better stat if you can place it, or you can pick a feat you could use every day. You could even get magic initiate to expand your spells, which, if you take warlock spells, you can upcast using your normal slots, trading 1/day 9th for 3 options you can use as much as the rest of your features, and the bonus is, you get it way earlier (unless you start playing at 20th) in your warlock career, which make it more useful.Given the inevitable truth is that 99% of characters rolled up at low levels never reach level 20, if you are certain that the campaign wouldn't last that long, this might be an option.

But if there are chances he will reach level 20, do not take fighter 4. Foresight is what really makes the Bladelock shine. It's their identity, after darkness becomes redundant. If you are going to take fighter 4, do understand the consequences.

[Wulfskadi]

When multiclassing to a spell caster it is important to remember that saving throws scale while you take levels in other classes even while damage does not. This means its probably a good idea to get in any saving throw spells in your first level so they remain effective as you progress in your multiclass plan. Remember, you can always change your spells when you return to leveling in warlock

Also its always a good idea to take the first couple caster levels early on so you don't end up under-powered.

[bid]

Should I take PAM/GWM at level 4, or prioritize the strength? Using point buy I'll definitely do Str and Con at 14, but I don't know if there's room in this build for Resilient (Wis) (As nice as it would be)
I agree it'd be hard to get resilient with your ASI needs, but just keep it open. I would get Str16 first to catch up other races.

Darkness looks nice on paper, but then you realize you're gimping the party's damage to improve yours. So no GWM with low Str unless you have a shield master / wolf totem companion to give you advantage.

[Gastronomie]

I agree it'd be hard to get resilient with your ASI needs, but just keep it open. I would get Str16 first to catch up other races.

Darkness looks nice on paper, but then you realize you're gimping the party's damage to improve yours. So no GWM with low Str unless you have a shield master / wolf totem companion to give you advantage.The "gimping the party's damge" is a common myth. There may be certain situations in which it's true, but not many.

Let's say you're attacking someone in melee range with Darkness, so that the target is within the dark sphere's range. If another warrior wants to attack the same enemy, he will get disadvantage from not being able to see the target, but at the same time, the target bestows advantage upon the attacker due to the target (the enemy) being blinded as well (the effects of the Blinded condition). This effectively cancels out the negative side of Darkness, making it not so "unfriendly to friends" as one may think.

It is true that you can't target guys you can't see, so the party caster might tell you that he wants to Hold Person the guy next to you in the darkness but UGHHHH I CAN'T EVEN SEE WHERE HE IS. In which case, all you have to do is tell him to take the Ready action, the "trigger" being that the caster becomes able to see the target. Then, when it's your turn, you step 15 feet away from the target, which automatically activates the Hold Person the caster was readying. After that, use your next 15 feet movement to move back to the target, and attack him with a giant trollface. Except oh wait, the target can't see your trollface.

If you're really sure Darkness is not right in the current situation, simply lose concentration on it and it's fine. Just go take a short rest and you get back the slots anyways. Darkness is a wonderful spell, and its disadvantages are not so much as a lot of people seem to think.

[Foxhound438]

GWM is generally worse for this kind of build than PAM. the damage of GWM+darkness ends up being 4d6+40, or about 56.7, while PAM+hex gets you 3d6+2d10+1d4+30, or about 58.1 with more or less the same hit chance (it's actually a bit worse or equal at the very best for -5 and advantage).

If you don't have the ASI's to cap both stats, as in your build, then GWM starts to catch up: with only 3 ASI to spare after whichever feat, you're going to be having +8 to damage per hit, meaning 52.7 for GWM and 52.1 for PAM (again at about the same hit chance against most things). Marginal difference, but it's there.

The biggest draw towards GWM in this case would actually be bonus action economy. For PAM you have both hex re-targeting and hitting things to do with the bonus action, meaning lower damage after each kill, while with GWM you have nothing except the conditional extra attack, meaning higher damage after each kill.

However, remember also that PAM does a good job of giving you reaction economy as well, so after one kill you can hex a target, attack it from 10 feet, and move out to 15 for the free value swing on approach. Granted you theoretically could hellish rebuke with GWM, but that's only once from your race, and I don't think you'd be spending your 2 warlock spell slots for most of your career doing that, and in the case that you're already in melee PAM can rebuke too.

There's give and take for both, so it's kind of a "use what you like" scenario.

The last thing I would mention is that while darkness doesn't give your party disadvantage, you still take away their ability to have advantage, so use with caution. A barbarian with GWM might be a bit upset when you steal their ability to put out damage.

[bid]

This effectively cancels out the negative side of Darkness, making it not so "unfriendly to friends" as one may think.
Ok, I guess that works. Thanks for the explanation.

[bid]

GWM is generally worse for this kind of build than PAM. the damage of GWM+darkness ends up being 4d6+40, or about 56.7, while PAM+hex gets you 3d6+2d10+1d4+30, or about 58.1 with more or less the same hit chance (it's actually a bit worse or equal at the very best for -5 and advantage).
Just to add some explanation here:
- you can only concentrate on a single spell (hex or darkness)
- you don't need to account for hit variation since advantage more-or-less cancels the -5 hit.

GWM can use its bonus attack, doing slightly better. PAM bonus attack conflicts with moving hex. I think the effect of those 2 points make them about equal.

OTOH, PAM will easily beat GWM if you reckless attack.

[Gastronomie]

GWM does more damage than that if you score a critical or land the finishing blow. Maximum is 6d6+60 (not that you can land it that nicely often). There's no real "better option" between PAM and GWM, whichever seems to fit your character is the better one for your build. Optimizing is fun, but you will get bored fast if you realize you're focusing everything on the build and not the personality of the Warlock.

[Corran]

The last thing I would mention is that while darkness doesn't give your party disadvantage, you still take away their ability to have advantage, so use with caution. A barbarian with GWM might be a bit upset when you steal their ability to put out damage.
So very true. Same goes for builds that have invested on OAs and those that often use spells that specify in their description that you have to actually see the target. Favors rogues who can use their cunning action to hide perhaps though.

@OP. Did you consider riposte as one of your maneuvres? If you end up with GWM and hence planning to using darkness, riposte makes a lot of sense, seeing as the disadvantage on incoming attacks will let you trigger it a lot and often, and since you will be rocking GWM with advantage on your attacks, the more attacks per round, the better.

Also, aim for thirsting blade asap, action surge can wait imo. Perhaps also pick up GFB and use it until level 6 (extra attack).

[Foxhound438]

Also, aim for thirsting blade asap, action surge can wait imo.

I have to agree here.